Dave, I do think you should be proud of the work your mother did, as did mine, in raising children without a male helper, but surely you aren't saying that men have no part in creating children? Those partial birth abortions your mom wept over were the result of men's actions or inactions as much as any choice the desperate women involved had made. You are at best being patronizing when you offer this list the opportunity to ' go ahead and have your girl talk. ' Women's heritage and women's history is holding up half the sky. Unless you wish to be middle Eastern, and not the middle Westerner I know you to be, and claim the whole sky for men. Or are dreams also not suitable talk for women and girls too? Ashley ----- Original Message ----- From: dave mothkovich To: [email protected] Sent: Sunday, April 24, 2005 3:38 AM Subject: Re: [CROATIA-L] feminist movement and "genealogy" The cooking goes to culture, which I think is suitable to genealogy. It adds color to the leaves of the family tree. I plead mea culpa regarding a short discussion on gulf courses, during some chattiing on the board. I have a great deal of respect for the mothers who raised 10 children.. my mother did it, and 5 by herself after my father died. My mother worked on airplanes during WWII, and after dad died, supported the family by working in a saloon. She was proud of her ability as a mother , wife, and homemaker; and she felt insulted by feminists because she felt they were demeaning the work she did and insulting her chosen vocation. My mother felt that feminism would destroy families, and though I don't think it is fair to say it has been the sole culprit of our McWorld culture, certainly it plays a role in how families interact in society today.. not all good. When my mother learned what abortion was, and what partial birth abortion was she wept for hours wondering how women could destroy the most precious gifts they had, one - sharing in creation with God, and two - the unborn child itself. My mom was a football fan, a baseball fan, shared in my love of mysteries and law enforcement. She was a good detective herself having found were my father's mother had died and was buried; and getting useful information from her death record and the people who cared for her with almost nothing as a clue. All that before the information and technology age, which has made the task so much easier for me. Regardless of how sick we were or how tired she was she put all her energy into our care. My mother taught us right from wrong, and how to see through "creative logic" to discern immoral behavior, falsehood, malice and politic. All this from a heinz 57, kinda woman married to a hard working, stubborn, Croatian male. Go ahead and have your girl talk. Dave On Sun, 24 Apr 2005 01:33:49 EDT [email protected] writes: > We are often discussing history: the Croats, Slovenes, their > language, the > food they eat and cook. And I saw no complaints. But mention the > women (except > in their families' kitchens) and soon the girls are mentioned- is it > just > patronizing or? > Going through the US census reports I could not but wonder: how did > they do > it? 8, 10 children, husband going to the coppermines and a boarder > or 2 in the > apartement. All the while apparently they had no basic legal rights. > Are we > only interested in their gourmet cooking and the rights of Magyars > and the > language of Poles? but not the lifes of our gmothers? > Right on Ashley! > And the rest: please explain what do the recipes have to do with > genealogy as > you understand it? > Tatjana Former (glad to have been able to be accepted to medical > school and > to spend my own earnings with my own credit cards. And to vote!) > > >