Ashley- I think we should continue this talk privately.. Dave On Mon, 25 Apr 2005 12:10:00 -0500 ashley tiwara <[email protected]> writes: > Dave, I do think you should be proud of the work your mother did, as > did mine, in raising children without a male helper, but surely you > aren't saying that men have no part in creating children? Those > partial birth abortions your mom wept over were the result of men's > actions or inactions as much as any choice the desperate women > involved had made. > You are at best being patronizing when you offer this list the > opportunity to ' go ahead and have your girl talk. ' Women's > heritage and women's history is holding up half the sky. Unless you > wish to be middle Eastern, and not the middle Westerner I know you > to be, and claim the whole sky for men. > > Or are dreams also not suitable talk for women and girls too? > Ashley > > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: dave mothkovich > To: [email protected] > Sent: Sunday, April 24, 2005 3:38 AM > Subject: Re: [CROATIA-L] feminist movement and "genealogy" > > > The cooking goes to culture, which I think is suitable to > genealogy. It > adds color to the leaves of the family tree. I plead mea culpa > regarding > a short discussion on gulf courses, during some chattiing on the > board. > I have a great deal of respect for the mothers who raised 10 > children.. > my mother did it, and 5 by herself after my father died. > My mother worked on airplanes during WWII, and after dad died, > supported > the family by working in a saloon. She was proud of her ability > as a > mother , wife, and homemaker; and she felt insulted by feminists > because > she felt they were demeaning the work she did and insulting her > chosen > vocation. My mother felt that feminism would destroy families, > and > though I don't think it is fair to say it has been the sole > culprit of > our McWorld culture, certainly it plays a role in how families > interact > in society today.. not all good. When my mother learned what > abortion > was, and what partial birth abortion was she wept for hours > wondering how > women could destroy the most precious gifts they had, one - > sharing in > creation with God, and two - the unborn child itself. > > My mom was a football fan, a baseball fan, shared in my love of > mysteries > and law enforcement. She was a good detective herself having > found were > my father's mother had died and was buried; and getting useful > information from her death record and the people who cared for her > with > almost nothing as a clue. All that before the information and > technology > age, which has made the task so much easier for me. Regardless of > how > sick we were or how tired she was she put all her energy into our > care. > My mother taught us right from wrong, and how to see through > "creative > logic" to discern immoral behavior, falsehood, malice and > politic. > > All this from a heinz 57, kinda woman married to a hard working, > stubborn, Croatian male. > > Go ahead and have your girl talk. > > Dave > > > > On Sun, 24 Apr 2005 01:33:49 EDT [email protected] writes: > > We are often discussing history: the Croats, Slovenes, their > > language, the > > food they eat and cook. And I saw no complaints. But mention the > > > women (except > > in their families' kitchens) and soon the girls are mentioned- > is it > > just > > patronizing or? > > Going through the US census reports I could not but wonder: how > did > > they do > > it? 8, 10 children, husband going to the coppermines and a > boarder > > or 2 in the > > apartement. All the while apparently they had no basic legal > rights. > > Are we > > only interested in their gourmet cooking and the rights of > Magyars > > and the > > language of Poles? but not the lifes of our gmothers? > > Right on Ashley! > > And the rest: please explain what do the recipes have to do with > > > genealogy as > > you understand it? > > Tatjana Former (glad to have been able to be accepted to medical > > > school and > > to spend my own earnings with my own credit cards. And to > vote!) > > > > > > > > >