Thank You Robert, I do greatly appreciate the efforts of Dr. T Former, and yourself with advice and information.. I have not seen records from the LDS church either here in Canada or elsewhere...those records that I am most interested in are sealed and not knowing what the protocols are for unsealing such records I am left somewhat confused and perplexed... My wife's grandfathers records would not be made available for another 60 years and no record have I found for his father or grandfather...thus I am relying on the good will of cousins in Hungary and the snail mail service from that country..(which I found to be unreliable at best) having sent money to them that most mysteriously disappeared.... I do have tons of information from the internet about the Zrinyi name and its history and find so much repetition that it all becomes monotonous ..though I welcome any and all links as I have not seen all of the three quarters of a Million hits on the Zrinyi name on the Google site alone.. I do not believe I have enough time to see all of them .too many of those hits are related to street names and armorial information...does anyone know of a better search engine that will bypass this? Once again I must state that I mean no disrespect to Dr Former... and apologize to the list if my responses seem somewhat blunt or without gratitude... that would miles from the truth as I do appreciate any and all responses with any information .My thanks and Blessings to All. Robert P Stutsman At 06:40 AM 12/18/2006, you wrote: >Robert, > > No disrespect meant. However in our pursuit of family history we > will gather a great deal of information some factual, some > embelished and some completely off base. And we should record all > of this, not as fact but as information during our research. In > any case the best way to pursue genealogical research is to gather > this info, working from the present backwards. As far as any > connection to famous or nobile family that will be confirmed or > denied with true research and not by looking for tales from > others. I believe that Dr. Former was only feeding you valid, > factual information when she stated that "that it is believed that > the male line descendants of Nikola Miklos SUBIC ZRINSKI, perished > with the death of the son ..." While it may be interesting to > "hear from others to compare family lore"... this will probably not > gain you much in your research to find the origin of your wife's > family. Again a methodical approach will yield what we are looking for...some > places to begin would be in records in Hungary.. have you located > the church or civil records? You may find them via the LDS Church > Family History Library... have you checked their database to see if > they have records for that church or town? This is where you find > the "leads" you say you are looking for. > > Robert > >Robert <peregrine1@rogers.com> wrote: > No disrespect meant Dr.T, >My only lead is family lore and I must pursue whatever leads I can >find....It was told to us by my wife's father who's surname was >Zrinyi that there is a relationship to Miklos at no time was it said >that there was a direct descendancy....when we look at the historical >perspective there were others of that name who were related to >Miklos/Nikola Subic Zrinski and yet to this day there is some that >claim connection to this line...I would love to hear from others who >have the same family name to compare their family lore with what we >have been told. >Robert > > > >At 10:40 PM 12/17/2006, you wrote: > >This is the history of this family: > > > >http://www.answers.com/topic/zrinski > > > >There are almost 300 Croatia tel subscribers with the name ZRINSKI, a few > >ZRINYI in Germany and probably many in Hungary. What their > >connection, if any, is > >to this family, I do not know. > >Historically, as I mentioned earlier, it is believed that the male line > >descendants of Nikola Miklos SUBIC ZRINSKI, perished with the death > >of the son of > >Peter who was executed by Austrian authorities in 1671. > > > >dr T.Former > > > >------------------------------- > >To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > >CROATIA-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the > >quotes in the subject and the body of the message > > > >__________ NOD32 1924 (20061215) Information __________ > > > >This message was checked by NOD32 antivirus system. > >http://www.eset.com > > >------------------------------- >To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to >CROATIA-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the >quotes in the subject and the body of the message > > > >"Everyone is entitled to their own opinion, but not their own >facts", Sen. Daniel Patrick Moynihan > >------------------------------- >To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to >CROATIA-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the >quotes in the subject and the body of the message > >__________ NOD32 1924 (20061215) Information __________ > >This message was checked by NOD32 antivirus system. >http://www.eset.com

Robert, So can we assume that the records are "sealed" not because of some family mystery but the privacy laws of Hungary? I am puzzled as to why they would be sealed for 60 years... unless of course if they are classified as "state secrets" ...here is the law as posted on the Hungarian National Archives web page.... these laws came into being after communism fell... so much has changed in regards to freedom of information and such. Relevant regulations Access to public records preserved in the National Archives of Hungary is regulated by the Archives Act (1995. LXVI., Amendment 1997. CXL., Enacting Clauses 19 and 20/1198.[V.13.] MKM), the Data Protection Act (1992. LXIII.) and the Privacy Act (1995. LXV.). According to the Archives Act (hereafter AA), any natural person may, upon preliminary application for access submitted to the archives, have free access to archival records held in public archives. Closure Periods of Records General Provisions Under the regulations of the AA (Section 22) access to public records is limited by a dual time restriction system: records created before 2 May 1990 are made available to the public 15 years after their creation records created after 1 May 1990 are made available to the public 30 years after their creation Some records are available without restriction from the date of transfer. Examples of such records include published materials and records (only) containing information of public interest. (See also the Data Protection Act [hereafter DPA] Sections 19 and 20) It is possible to have access to records before the 15 or 30 year period expires. The record creator agency may allow access to records closed under the terms of the 30-year rule. In the case of records closed under the terms of the 15-year rule an additional permission of an ad hoc scientific advisory board is also required (AA Section 23). http://www.mol.gov.hu/index.php?akt_menu=574 Robert Robert <peregrine1@rogers.com> wrote: Thank You Robert, I do greatly appreciate the efforts of Dr. T Former, and yourself with advice and information.. I have not seen records from the LDS church either here in Canada or elsewhere...those records that I am most interested in are sealed and not knowing what the protocols are for unsealing such records I am left somewhat confused and perplexed... My wife's grandfathers records would not be made available for another 60 years and no record have I found for his father or grandfather...thus I am relying on the good will of cousins in Hungary and the snail mail service from that country..(which I found to be unreliable at best) having sent money to them that most mysteriously disappeared.... I do have tons of information from the internet about the Zrinyi name and its history and find so much repetition that it all becomes monotonous ..though I welcome any and all links as I have not seen all of the three quarters of a Million hits on the Zrinyi name on the Google site alone.. I do not believe I have enough time to see all of them .too many of those hits are related to street names and armorial information...does anyone know of a better search engine that will bypass this? Once again I must state that I mean no disrespect to Dr Former... and apologize to the list if my responses seem somewhat blunt or without gratitude... that would miles from the truth as I do appreciate any and all responses with any information .My thanks and Blessings to All. Robert P Stutsman At 06:40 AM 12/18/2006, you wrote: >Robert, > > No disrespect meant. However in our pursuit of family history we > will gather a great deal of information some factual, some > embelished and some completely off base. And we should record all > of this, not as fact but as information during our research. In > any case the best way to pursue genealogical research is to gather > this info, working from the present backwards. As far as any > connection to famous or nobile family that will be confirmed or > denied with true research and not by looking for tales from > others. I believe that Dr. Former was only feeding you valid, > factual information when she stated that "that it is believed that > the male line descendants of Nikola Miklos SUBIC ZRINSKI, perished > with the death of the son ..." While it may be interesting to > "hear from others to compare family lore"... this will probably not > gain you much in your research to find the origin of your wife's > family. Again a methodical approach will yield what we are looking for...some > places to begin would be in records in Hungary.. have you located > the church or civil records? You may find them via the LDS Church > Family History Library... have you checked their database to see if > they have records for that church or town? This is where you find > the "leads" you say you are looking for. > > Robert > >Robert wrote: > No disrespect meant Dr.T, >My only lead is family lore and I must pursue whatever leads I can >find....It was told to us by my wife's father who's surname was >Zrinyi that there is a relationship to Miklos at no time was it said >that there was a direct descendancy....when we look at the historical >perspective there were others of that name who were related to >Miklos/Nikola Subic Zrinski and yet to this day there is some that >claim connection to this line...I would love to hear from others who >have the same family name to compare their family lore with what we >have been told. >Robert > > > >At 10:40 PM 12/17/2006, you wrote: > >This is the history of this family: > > > >http://www.answers.com/topic/zrinski > > > >There are almost 300 Croatia tel subscribers with the name ZRINSKI, a few > >ZRINYI in Germany and probably many in Hungary. What their > >connection, if any, is > >to this family, I do not know. > >Historically, as I mentioned earlier, it is believed that the male line > >descendants of Nikola Miklos SUBIC ZRINSKI, perished with the death > >of the son of > >Peter who was executed by Austrian authorities in 1671. > > > >dr T.Former > > > >------------------------------- > >To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > >CROATIA-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the > >quotes in the subject and the body of the message > > > >__________ NOD32 1924 (20061215) Information __________ > > > >This message was checked by NOD32 antivirus system. > >http://www.eset.com > > >------------------------------- >To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to >CROATIA-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the >quotes in the subject and the body of the message > > > >"Everyone is entitled to their own opinion, but not their own >facts", Sen. Daniel Patrick Moynihan > >------------------------------- >To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to >CROATIA-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the >quotes in the subject and the body of the message > >__________ NOD32 1924 (20061215) Information __________ > >This message was checked by NOD32 antivirus system. >http://www.eset.com ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to CROATIA-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message "Everyone is entitled to their own opinion, but not their own facts", Sen. Daniel Patrick Moynihan

Hello Robert, No it is purely assumption on my part ...I was of the assumption that all death records everywhere are sealed for 100 years ... so this is not the case in Hungary? When Last I looked at LDS library there was nothing available on Ferenc Zrinyi of Baja Hungary... Do you know of where I can write to get these records? or does some site exist on the internet to look up this info. Robert P Stutsman At 07:48 AM 12/18/2006, you wrote: >Robert, > > So can we assume that the records are "sealed" not because of > some family mystery but the privacy laws of Hungary? > > I am puzzled as to why they would be sealed for 60 years... > unless of course if they are classified as "state secrets" ...here > is the law as posted on the Hungarian National Archives web > page.... these laws came into being after communism fell... so much > has changed in regards to freedom of information and such. > > > Relevant regulations > Access to public records preserved in the National Archives of > Hungary is regulated by the Archives Act (1995. LXVI., Amendment > 1997. CXL., Enacting Clauses 19 and 20/1198.[V.13.] MKM), the Data > Protection Act (1992. LXIII.) and the Privacy Act (1995. LXV.). > According to the Archives Act (hereafter AA), any natural person > may, upon preliminary application for access submitted to the > archives, have free access to archival records held in public archives. > > > Closure Periods of Records > > General Provisions > Under the regulations of the AA (Section 22) access to public > records is limited by a dual time restriction system: > > records created before 2 May 1990 are made available to the > public 15 years after their creation > records created after 1 May 1990 are made available to the > public 30 years after their creation > Some records are available without restriction from the date of > transfer. Examples of such records include published materials and > records (only) containing information of public interest. (See also > the Data Protection Act [hereafter DPA] Sections 19 and 20) > It is possible to have access to records before the 15 or 30 year > period expires. The record creator agency may allow access to > records closed under the terms of the 30-year rule. In the case of > records closed under the terms of the 15-year rule an additional > permission of an ad hoc scientific advisory board is also required > (AA Section 23). > > http://www.mol.gov.hu/index.php?akt_menu=574 > > Robert > > >Robert <peregrine1@rogers.com> wrote: > Thank You Robert, >I do greatly appreciate the efforts of Dr. T Former, and yourself >with advice and information.. >I have not seen records from the LDS church either here in Canada >or elsewhere...those records that I am most interested in are sealed >and not knowing what the protocols are for unsealing such records I >am left somewhat confused and perplexed... >My wife's grandfathers records would not be made available for >another 60 years and no record have I found for his father or >grandfather...thus I am relying on the good will of cousins in >Hungary and the snail mail service from that country..(which I found >to be unreliable at best) having sent money to them that most >mysteriously disappeared.... >I do have tons of information from the internet about the Zrinyi name >and its history and find so much repetition that it all becomes >monotonous ..though I welcome any and all links as I have not seen >all of the three quarters of a Million hits on the Zrinyi name on the >Google site alone.. I do not believe I have enough time to see all of >them .too many of those hits are related to street names and armorial >information...does anyone know of a better search engine that will >bypass this? >Once again I must state that I mean no disrespect to Dr Former... and >apologize to the list if my responses seem somewhat blunt or without >gratitude... that would miles from the truth as I do appreciate any >and all responses with any information .My thanks and Blessings to All. > >Robert P Stutsman > > >At 06:40 AM 12/18/2006, you wrote: > >Robert, > > > > No disrespect meant. However in our pursuit of family history we > > will gather a great deal of information some factual, some > > embelished and some completely off base. And we should record all > > of this, not as fact but as information during our research. In > > any case the best way to pursue genealogical research is to gather > > this info, working from the present backwards. As far as any > > connection to famous or nobile family that will be confirmed or > > denied with true research and not by looking for tales from > > others. I believe that Dr. Former was only feeding you valid, > > factual information when she stated that "that it is believed that > > the male line descendants of Nikola Miklos SUBIC ZRINSKI, perished > > with the death of the son ..." While it may be interesting to > > "hear from others to compare family lore"... this will probably not > > gain you much in your research to find the origin of your wife's > > family. Again a methodical approach will yield what we are > looking for...some > > places to begin would be in records in Hungary.. have you located > > the church or civil records? You may find them via the LDS Church > > Family History Library... have you checked their database to see if > > they have records for that church or town? This is where you find > > the "leads" you say you are looking for. > > > > Robert > > > >Robert >wrote: > > No disrespect meant Dr.T, > >My only lead is family lore and I must pursue whatever leads I can > >find....It was told to us by my wife's father who's surname was > >Zrinyi that there is a relationship to Miklos at no time was it said > >that there was a direct descendancy....when we look at the historical > >perspective there were others of that name who were related to > >Miklos/Nikola Subic Zrinski and yet to this day there is some that > >claim connection to this line...I would love to hear from others who > >have the same family name to compare their family lore with what we > >have been told. > >Robert > > > > > > > >At 10:40 PM 12/17/2006, you wrote: > > >This is the history of this family: > > > > > >http://www.answers.com/topic/zrinski > > > > > >There are almost 300 Croatia tel subscribers with the name ZRINSKI, a few > > >ZRINYI in Germany and probably many in Hungary. What their > > >connection, if any, is > > >to this family, I do not know. > > >Historically, as I mentioned earlier, it is believed that the male line > > >descendants of Nikola Miklos SUBIC ZRINSKI, perished with the death > > >of the son of > > >Peter who was executed by Austrian authorities in 1671. > > > > > >dr T.Former > > > > > >------------------------------- > > >To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > > >CROATIA-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the > > >quotes in the subject and the body of the message > > > > > >__________ NOD32 1924 (20061215) Information __________ > > > > > >This message was checked by NOD32 antivirus system. > > >http://www.eset.com > > > > > >------------------------------- > >To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > >CROATIA-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the > >quotes in the subject and the body of the message > > > > > > > >"Everyone is entitled to their own opinion, but not their own > >facts", Sen. Daniel Patrick Moynihan > > > >------------------------------- > >To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > >CROATIA-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the > >quotes in the subject and the body of the message > > > >__________ NOD32 1924 (20061215) Information __________ > > > >This message was checked by NOD32 antivirus system. > >http://www.eset.com > > >------------------------------- >To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to >CROATIA-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the >quotes in the subject and the body of the message > > > >"Everyone is entitled to their own opinion, but not their own >facts", Sen. Daniel Patrick Moynihan > >------------------------------- >To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to >CROATIA-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the >quotes in the subject and the body of the message > >__________ NOD32 1925 (20061218) Information __________ > >This message was checked by NOD32 antivirus system. >http://www.eset.com