Andrija, Not that they can't affored vowels... the R serves the function of a vowel when it is adjacent to 2 consonants... I love that part of the language... very phonetic... very practical...it is the cases that drive me crazy. I guess your father left later and the travel changed for instance most Croatians would use Bremen but then after 1913 (WW I effected things) other ports incl. Liverpool were used more frequently... the burro is called magarac in Croatian... and in case it is not known the American Folk Hero Joe Magarac, of Pittsburgh Steel worker fame, was most likely taken from the Croatian word magarac Thus my friend Joe Matesich from Pittsburgh has a long running campaign to recruit people into the Magarac Club he even had shirts made with the mural of Joe Magarac from the U. of Pittsburgh http://vrcoll.fa.pitt.edu/uag/Past-Exhibitions/2000_Uwe_Wittwer/gropper.jpg ... as he meets new Croatian immigrants he will ask ti si magarac?... of course they respond ni sam magarac ! until they hear the story of this hard working Croatian... and then they smile and say ja sam magarac! http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Joe_Magarac Robert Andrija <hrvat@earthlink.net> wrote: My fahter's parents, who lived in Lovrec, Imotski, traveled from Trieste. I guess it was closer - just a burro ride down the mountain to the Adriadic, then to Split, and by train to Trieste (which they still call "Trst.) I guess they can't afford vowels. Andrija -----Original Message----- >From: "Donald A. Martinich" >Sent: Feb 20, 2007 6:54 PM >To: croatia@rootsweb.com >Subject: Re: [CROATIA] CROATIA Digest, Vol 2, Issue 28 > >> >>Message: 2 >>Date: Tue, 20 Feb 2007 13:56:40 -0800 >>From: "L. Novasel" >>Subject: Re: [CROATIA] NOVOSEL in Karlovac >>To: Andrija --------------------------------- , croatia@rootsweb.com >>Message-ID: <3EAE692A-C12D-11DB-97E5-000A95D1E4BE@mindspring.com> >>Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed >> >>Andrija, >>As a newcomer to Croatian research I'm only assuming that the same >>context applies there as elsewhere in Europe. >>Le Havre was a pivotal trading center in the years our ancestors filed >>for emigration. I understand there was a circular route, making optimum >>use of the ships. Cotton leaving from New Orleans for instance was >>routed to London where the cargo was unloaded. The ship then loaded >>trade goods destined for Le Havre, unloaded again, and took aboard >>human cargo bound for America, completing the trade circle for the >>shipping company. >> >>The contractor or travel organizer went into the villages, signed up >>our emigrating great grandmothers and grandfathers, then escorted them >>to the shipper's home port, with whom he in turn had contracted. My >>guess is that they traveled up the rivers avoiding trouble spots in the >>years preceding the war. Interesting Trieste wasn't utilized, but >>hazarding another guess, there was most likely not trade material in >>sufficient quantity to make the route profitable. Presumably the >>political- economic instability would have guaranteed that. Just >>speculation though. >> >>Nina > >Actually, Trieste was a port of embarkation. I just don't think it >had anywhere the tonnage that came in and out of Le Havre. My father >and his family arrived at Ellis Island on the SS Martha Washington, >which was operated out of Trieste by Unione Austriaca from 1908 to >1914. After WW1, she transferred to the Italian owned Cosulich >Lines, also of Trieste, and continued the New York run through the >20's. Incidentally, the Cosulich family originated in Mali Losinj. > >Don > >------------------------------- >To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to CROATIA-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to CROATIA-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message "Civilization is the progress toward a society of privacy. The savage's whole existence is public, ruled by the laws of his tribe. Civilization is the process of setting man free from men." Ayn Rand 1905-1982

And then there was "Je te magarac" which I will swear my father explained to me as an under the breath curse of a Magyar (Hungarian) oppressor. Like they assumed the man would assume they meant "magyar" but in reality they were being cursed and letting off a little steam :-) On Feb 21, 2007, at 2:20 PM, Robert Jerin wrote: > Andrija, > > Not that they can't affored vowels... the R serves the function of a > vowel when it is adjacent to 2 consonants... I love that part of the > language... very phonetic... very practical...it is the cases that > drive me crazy. I guess your father left later and the travel changed > for instance most Croatians would use Bremen but then after 1913 (WW I > effected things) other ports incl. Liverpool were used more > frequently... the burro is called magarac in Croatian... and in case > it is not known the American Folk Hero Joe Magarac, of Pittsburgh > Steel worker fame, was most likely taken from the Croatian word > magarac Thus my friend Joe Matesich from Pittsburgh has a long > running campaign to recruit people into the Magarac Club he even had > shirts made with the mural of Joe Magarac from the U. of Pittsburgh > > > http://vrcoll.fa.pitt.edu/uag/Past-Exhibitions/2000_Uwe_Wittwer/ > gropper.jpg > > ... as he meets new Croatian immigrants he will ask ti si > magarac?... of course they respond ni sam magarac ! until they hear > the story of this hard working Croatian... and then they smile and say > ja sam magarac! > > http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Joe_Magarac > > Robert > > Andrija <hrvat@earthlink.net> wrote: > My fahter's parents, who lived in Lovrec, Imotski, traveled from > Trieste. I guess it was closer - just a burro ride down the mountain > to the Adriadic, then to Split, and by train to Trieste (which they > still call "Trst.) I guess they can't afford vowels. > > Andrija > > -----Original Message----- >> From: "Donald A. Martinich" >> Sent: Feb 20, 2007 6:54 PM >> To: croatia@rootsweb.com >> Subject: Re: [CROATIA] CROATIA Digest, Vol 2, Issue 28 >> >>> >>> Message: 2 >>> Date: Tue, 20 Feb 2007 13:56:40 -0800 >>> From: "L. Novasel" >>> Subject: Re: [CROATIA] NOVOSEL in Karlovac >>> To: Andrija > --------------------------------- > , croatia@rootsweb.com >>> Message-ID: <3EAE692A-C12D-11DB-97E5-000A95D1E4BE@mindspring.com> >>> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed >>> >>> Andrija, >>> As a newcomer to Croatian research I'm only assuming that the same >>> context applies there as elsewhere in Europe. >>> Le Havre was a pivotal trading center in the years our ancestors >>> filed >>> for emigration. I understand there was a circular route, making >>> optimum >>> use of the ships. Cotton leaving from New Orleans for instance was >>> routed to London where the cargo was unloaded. The ship then loaded >>> trade goods destined for Le Havre, unloaded again, and took aboard >>> human cargo bound for America, completing the trade circle for the >>> shipping company. >>> >>> The contractor or travel organizer went into the villages, signed up >>> our emigrating great grandmothers and grandfathers, then escorted >>> them >>> to the shipper's home port, with whom he in turn had contracted. My >>> guess is that they traveled up the rivers avoiding trouble spots in >>> the >>> years preceding the war. Interesting Trieste wasn't utilized, but >>> hazarding another guess, there was most likely not trade material in >>> sufficient quantity to make the route profitable. Presumably the >>> political- economic instability would have guaranteed that. Just >>> speculation though. >>> >>> Nina >> >> Actually, Trieste was a port of embarkation. I just don't think it >> had anywhere the tonnage that came in and out of Le Havre. My father >> and his family arrived at Ellis Island on the SS Martha Washington, >> which was operated out of Trieste by Unione Austriaca from 1908 to >> 1914. After WW1, she transferred to the Italian owned Cosulich >> Lines, also of Trieste, and continued the New York run through the >> 20's. Incidentally, the Cosulich family originated in Mali Losinj. >> >> Don >> >> ------------------------------- >> To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to >> CROATIA-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the >> quotes in the subject and the body of the message > > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > CROATIA-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the > quotes in the subject and the body of the message > > > > "Civilization is the progress toward a society of privacy. The > savage's whole existence is public, ruled by the laws of his tribe. > Civilization is the process of setting man free from men." Ayn Rand > 1905-1982 > > > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > CROATIA-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the > quotes in the subject and the body of the message >