Andrija, As a newcomer to Croatian research I'm only assuming that the same context applies there as elsewhere in Europe. Le Havre was a pivotal trading center in the years our ancestors filed for emigration. I understand there was a circular route, making optimum use of the ships. Cotton leaving from New Orleans for instance was routed to London where the cargo was unloaded. The ship then loaded trade goods destined for Le Havre, unloaded again, and took aboard human cargo bound for America, completing the trade circle for the shipping company. The contractor or travel organizer went into the villages, signed up our emigrating great grandmothers and grandfathers, then escorted them to the shipper's home port, with whom he in turn had contracted. My guess is that they traveled up the rivers avoiding trouble spots in the years preceding the war. Interesting Trieste wasn't utilized, but hazarding another guess, there was most likely not trade material in sufficient quantity to make the route profitable. Presumably the political- economic instability would have guaranteed that. Just speculation though. Nina On Feb 20, 2007, at 10:29 AM, Andrija wrote: > Dear Tony and Nina, > > A couple of items in your discussion of Novasel have piqued my > interest. > > My maternal grandmother's maiden name was Kata Brezovic' She was born > in Sisljavic near Karlovac 11/22/1899 and sailed from Harve, Bordeaux, > France aboard La Savoie arriving Ellis Island 6/27/1914 apparently > alone at age 14. She settled in Clairton, PA and married my > grandfather, an immigrant from Bosnia. > > I have been able to locate her birth certificate, the passenger > manifest, which showed her age as 16, and even, as the result of a > posting on another site, discovered an English-speaking second cousin, > al;so interested in family history, who was able to provide me with > 200 years of genealogy and history. > > What I have never been able to figure out is how she got from > Sisljavic or Karlovac to La Havre. Since your Novosel relatives also > sailed from La Havre, perhaps you can shed some light on how and why > they sailed from there instead of, say, Trieste, which seems to be > closer. I am guessing it might have had something to do with World War > I and the assination of the Archduke, but am just guessing. Any > insights? > > Andrija > > -----Original Message----- >> From: "L. Novasel" <nimbler@mindspring.com> >> Sent: Feb 19, 2007 4:18 PM >> To: croatia@rootsweb.com >> Subject: Re: [CROATIA] NOVOSEL in Karlovac >> >> Tony, >> Thank you for the Novosel and Schuman information. It is very possible >> Mijo worked in the Pennsylvania coal mines after his arrival. Our >> biggest obstacle in tracking his American addresses has been the fact >> that at some point after entry he changed his name to Smith. When he >> married in 1912 it was as Mike Smith. Go figure. >> >> I've been operating from Mijo's birthdate as we know it, and the fact >> that we know he arrived in 1900-1901 from Karlovac. The surname seems >> to be common throughout the county of Karlovac.That is very >> interesting >> about the Schuman surname in Penn. Mijo's marriage license does indeed >> indicate mother's Schumann surname. It sounds Germanic but I guess the >> truth is to be found in the parish registers, arriving soon. >> >> Thanks so much for your help, >> Nina >> >> On Feb 19, 2007, at 4:34 PM, tony zugay wrote: >> >>> Nina, >>> Don't know if this is any help. I was born and raised in Steelton >>> Penna >>> and knew a Novosel family there. My mother was born in Lovic, >>> Croatia >>> which is in Karlovac Zupanja (County) and about 25 km from the city >>> of >>> Karlovac . She was born in 1895 and her godparents were Pavao and >>> Ana >>> Novosel. I have looked at birth records from Pribic (the parish where >>> she was baptized) and see the name Novosel in those church records >>> often. I glanced through the Ellis island list and saw a number of >>> Mijo Novosels listed but none that would have been born in 1882 and >>> arrived in 1901. If Mijo was naturalized it's possible that he would >>> have had to produce a birth/baptism certificate that would have his >>> parents name. >>> Also, there was a Croatian family in our neighborhood that spelled >>> their name SHUMAN. >>> Good luck, >>> Tony Zugay >>> On Feb 19, 2007, at 11:14 AM, L. Novasel wrote: >>> >>>> Mijo Novosel was born Sept.20,1882 in Karlovac, Croatia. He arrived >>>> in >>>> America, Ellis island, September 1, 1901 via Le Havre. Family >>>> documents >>>> list Karlovac as his town of origin. Do not know if that reference >>>> is >>>> to the town or perhaps the county. We have ordered the Karlovac >>>> Catholic parish records from FHC in hopes of finding his parents, >>>> grandparents. He and a male sibling were raised by an uncle in >>>> Karlovac, of whom we have no information. Mijo's 1912 marriage >>>> license >>>> notes his mother's surname as Schumann, likely a misspelling. Can >>>> anyone suggest possible Croatian/ Karlovaki surnames that might >>>> sound >>>> like Schumann to an American clerk? >>>> >>>> In preparing for the transcriptions from the church books, is >>>> there >>>> a >>>> Karlovac Family Register that would help keep us on the right path? >>>> Also, is there a local genealogy or history association that might >>>> be >>>> able to do lookups and provide historical background? Is there an >>>> online list of cemetery sites in this town? >>>> >>>> Nina >>>> >>>> >>>> ------------------------------- >>>> To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to >>>> CROATIA-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the >>>> quotes in the subject and the body of the message >>>> >>> >>> >>> ------------------------------- >>> To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to >>> CROATIA-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the >>> quotes in the subject and the body of the message >>> >> >> >> ------------------------------- >> To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to >> CROATIA-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the >> quotes in the subject and the body of the message > > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > CROATIA-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the > quotes in the subject and the body of the message >

When I was young, I heard a lot about recruiters. These were people got people to work for their company, in our case, mining companies. I heard that these recruiters were paid per head. There must have been some of them in various countries. There is a story at Ironworld that a mining company near Kinney MN brought in the entire population of a village in Bulgaria so they could get enough workers. The land was so poor that no one else moved in. The village no longer exists. I've tried to find out more about this but there doesn't seem anything in print about it. ----- Original Message ----- From: "L. Novasel" <nimbler@mindspring.com> To: "Andrija" <hrvat@earthlink.net>; <croatia@rootsweb.com> Sent: Tuesday, February 20, 2007 3:56 PM Subject: Re: [CROATIA] NOVOSEL in Karlovac > Andrija, > As a newcomer to Croatian research I'm only assuming that the same > context applies there as elsewhere in Europe. > Le Havre was a pivotal trading center in the years our ancestors filed > for emigration. I understand there was a circular route, making optimum > use of the ships. Cotton leaving from New Orleans for instance was > routed to London where the cargo was unloaded. The ship then loaded > trade goods destined for Le Havre, unloaded again, and took aboard > human cargo bound for America, completing the trade circle for the > shipping company. > > The contractor or travel organizer went into the villages, signed up > our emigrating great grandmothers and grandfathers, then escorted them > to the shipper's home port, with whom he in turn had contracted. My > guess is that they traveled up the rivers avoiding trouble spots in the > years preceding the war. Interesting Trieste wasn't utilized, but > hazarding another guess, there was most likely not trade material in > sufficient quantity to make the route profitable. Presumably the > political- economic instability would have guaranteed that. Just > speculation though. > > Nina > > > On Feb 20, 2007, at 10:29 AM, Andrija wrote: > >> Dear Tony and Nina, >> >> A couple of items in your discussion of Novasel have piqued my >> interest. >> >> My maternal grandmother's maiden name was Kata Brezovic' She was born >> in Sisljavic near Karlovac 11/22/1899 and sailed from Harve, Bordeaux, >> France aboard La Savoie arriving Ellis Island 6/27/1914 apparently >> alone at age 14. She settled in Clairton, PA and married my >> grandfather, an immigrant from Bosnia. >> >> I have been able to locate her birth certificate, the passenger >> manifest, which showed her age as 16, and even, as the result of a >> posting on another site, discovered an English-speaking second cousin, >> al;so interested in family history, who was able to provide me with >> 200 years of genealogy and history. >> >> What I have never been able to figure out is how she got from >> Sisljavic or Karlovac to La Havre. Since your Novosel relatives also >> sailed from La Havre, perhaps you can shed some light on how and why >> they sailed from there instead of, say, Trieste, which seems to be >> closer. I am guessing it might have had something to do with World War >> I and the assination of the Archduke, but am just guessing. Any >> insights? >> >> Andrija >> >> -----Original Message----- >>> From: "L. Novasel" <nimbler@mindspring.com> >>> Sent: Feb 19, 2007 4:18 PM >>> To: croatia@rootsweb.com >>> Subject: Re: [CROATIA] NOVOSEL in Karlovac >>> >>> Tony, >>> Thank you for the Novosel and Schuman information. It is very possible >>> Mijo worked in the Pennsylvania coal mines after his arrival. Our >>> biggest obstacle in tracking his American addresses has been the fact >>> that at some point after entry he changed his name to Smith. When he >>> married in 1912 it was as Mike Smith. Go figure. >>> >>> I've been operating from Mijo's birthdate as we know it, and the fact >>> that we know he arrived in 1900-1901 from Karlovac. The surname seems >>> to be common throughout the county of Karlovac.That is very >>> interesting >>> about the Schuman surname in Penn. Mijo's marriage license does indeed >>> indicate mother's Schumann surname. It sounds Germanic but I guess the >>> truth is to be found in the parish registers, arriving soon. >>> >>> Thanks so much for your help, >>> Nina >>> >>> On Feb 19, 2007, at 4:34 PM, tony zugay wrote: >>> >>>> Nina, >>>> Don't know if this is any help. I was born and raised in Steelton >>>> Penna >>>> and knew a Novosel family there. My mother was born in Lovic, >>>> Croatia >>>> which is in Karlovac Zupanja (County) and about 25 km from the city >>>> of >>>> Karlovac . She was born in 1895 and her godparents were Pavao and >>>> Ana >>>> Novosel. I have looked at birth records from Pribic (the parish where >>>> she was baptized) and see the name Novosel in those church records >>>> often. I glanced through the Ellis island list and saw a number of >>>> Mijo Novosels listed but none that would have been born in 1882 and >>>> arrived in 1901. If Mijo was naturalized it's possible that he would >>>> have had to produce a birth/baptism certificate that would have his >>>> parents name. >>>> Also, there was a Croatian family in our neighborhood that spelled >>>> their name SHUMAN. >>>> Good luck, >>>> Tony Zugay >>>> On Feb 19, 2007, at 11:14 AM, L. Novasel wrote: >>>> >>>>> Mijo Novosel was born Sept.20,1882 in Karlovac, Croatia. He arrived >>>>> in >>>>> America, Ellis island, September 1, 1901 via Le Havre. Family >>>>> documents >>>>> list Karlovac as his town of origin. Do not know if that reference >>>>> is >>>>> to the town or perhaps the county. We have ordered the Karlovac >>>>> Catholic parish records from FHC in hopes of finding his parents, >>>>> grandparents. He and a male sibling were raised by an uncle in >>>>> Karlovac, of whom we have no information. Mijo's 1912 marriage >>>>> license >>>>> notes his mother's surname as Schumann, likely a misspelling. Can >>>>> anyone suggest possible Croatian/ Karlovaki surnames that might >>>>> sound >>>>> like Schumann to an American clerk? >>>>> >>>>> In preparing for the transcriptions from the church books, is >>>>> there >>>>> a >>>>> Karlovac Family Register that would help keep us on the right path? >>>>> Also, is there a local genealogy or history association that might >>>>> be >>>>> able to do lookups and provide historical background? Is there an >>>>> online list of cemetery sites in this town? >>>>> >>>>> Nina >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> ------------------------------- >>>>> To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to >>>>> CROATIA-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the >>>>> quotes in the subject and the body of the message >>>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> ------------------------------- >>>> To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to >>>> CROATIA-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the >>>> quotes in the subject and the body of the message >>>> >>> >>> >>> ------------------------------- >>> To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to >>> CROATIA-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the >>> quotes in the subject and the body of the message >> >> >> ------------------------------- >> To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to >> CROATIA-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the >> quotes in the subject and the body of the message >> > > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > CROATIA-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the > quotes in the subject and the body of the message >

There was a story a few years ago about BF Goodrich using recruiters... and in many case they were previous immigrants... one can just hear the boss asking Ivan... "are there more like you at home".... that is hard workers! Robert Don Marinkovich <djedo@2z.net> wrote: When I was young, I heard a lot about recruiters. These were people got people to work for their company, in our case, mining companies. I heard that these recruiters were paid per head. There must have been some of them in various countries. There is a story at Ironworld that a mining company near Kinney MN brought in the entire population of a village in Bulgaria so they could get enough workers. The land was so poor that no one else moved in. The village no longer exists. I've tried to find out more about this but there doesn't seem anything in print about it. ----- Original Message ----- From: "L. Novasel" To: "Andrija" --------------------------------- ; Sent: Tuesday, February 20, 2007 3:56 PM Subject: Re: [CROATIA] NOVOSEL in Karlovac > Andrija, > As a newcomer to Croatian research I'm only assuming that the same > context applies there as elsewhere in Europe. > Le Havre was a pivotal trading center in the years our ancestors filed > for emigration. I understand there was a circular route, making optimum > use of the ships. Cotton leaving from New Orleans for instance was > routed to London where the cargo was unloaded. The ship then loaded > trade goods destined for Le Havre, unloaded again, and took aboard > human cargo bound for America, completing the trade circle for the > shipping company. > > The contractor or travel organizer went into the villages, signed up > our emigrating great grandmothers and grandfathers, then escorted them > to the shipper's home port, with whom he in turn had contracted. My > guess is that they traveled up the rivers avoiding trouble spots in the > years preceding the war. Interesting Trieste wasn't utilized, but > hazarding another guess, there was most likely not trade material in > sufficient quantity to make the route profitable. Presumably the > political- economic instability would have guaranteed that. Just > speculation though. > > Nina > > > On Feb 20, 2007, at 10:29 AM, Andrija wrote: > >> Dear Tony and Nina, >> >> A couple of items in your discussion of Novasel have piqued my >> interest. >> >> My maternal grandmother's maiden name was Kata Brezovic' She was born >> in Sisljavic near Karlovac 11/22/1899 and sailed from Harve, Bordeaux, >> France aboard La Savoie arriving Ellis Island 6/27/1914 apparently >> alone at age 14. She settled in Clairton, PA and married my >> grandfather, an immigrant from Bosnia. >> >> I have been able to locate her birth certificate, the passenger >> manifest, which showed her age as 16, and even, as the result of a >> posting on another site, discovered an English-speaking second cousin, >> al;so interested in family history, who was able to provide me with >> 200 years of genealogy and history. >> >> What I have never been able to figure out is how she got from >> Sisljavic or Karlovac to La Havre. Since your Novosel relatives also >> sailed from La Havre, perhaps you can shed some light on how and why >> they sailed from there instead of, say, Trieste, which seems to be >> closer. I am guessing it might have had something to do with World War >> I and the assination of the Archduke, but am just guessing. Any >> insights? >> >> Andrija >> >> -----Original Message----- >>> From: "L. Novasel" >>> Sent: Feb 19, 2007 4:18 PM >>> To: croatia@rootsweb.com >>> Subject: Re: [CROATIA] NOVOSEL in Karlovac >>> >>> Tony, >>> Thank you for the Novosel and Schuman information. It is very possible >>> Mijo worked in the Pennsylvania coal mines after his arrival. Our >>> biggest obstacle in tracking his American addresses has been the fact >>> that at some point after entry he changed his name to Smith. When he >>> married in 1912 it was as Mike Smith. Go figure. >>> >>> I've been operating from Mijo's birthdate as we know it, and the fact >>> that we know he arrived in 1900-1901 from Karlovac. The surname seems >>> to be common throughout the county of Karlovac.That is very >>> interesting >>> about the Schuman surname in Penn. Mijo's marriage license does indeed >>> indicate mother's Schumann surname. It sounds Germanic but I guess the >>> truth is to be found in the parish registers, arriving soon. >>> >>> Thanks so much for your help, >>> Nina >>> >>> On Feb 19, 2007, at 4:34 PM, tony zugay wrote: >>> >>>> Nina, >>>> Don't know if this is any help. I was born and raised in Steelton >>>> Penna >>>> and knew a Novosel family there. My mother was born in Lovic, >>>> Croatia >>>> which is in Karlovac Zupanja (County) and about 25 km from the city >>>> of >>>> Karlovac . She was born in 1895 and her godparents were Pavao and >>>> Ana >>>> Novosel. I have looked at birth records from Pribic (the parish where >>>> she was baptized) and see the name Novosel in those church records >>>> often. I glanced through the Ellis island list and saw a number of >>>> Mijo Novosels listed but none that would have been born in 1882 and >>>> arrived in 1901. If Mijo was naturalized it's possible that he would >>>> have had to produce a birth/baptism certificate that would have his >>>> parents name. >>>> Also, there was a Croatian family in our neighborhood that spelled >>>> their name SHUMAN. >>>> Good luck, >>>> Tony Zugay >>>> On Feb 19, 2007, at 11:14 AM, L. Novasel wrote: >>>> >>>>> Mijo Novosel was born Sept.20,1882 in Karlovac, Croatia. He arrived >>>>> in >>>>> America, Ellis island, September 1, 1901 via Le Havre. Family >>>>> documents >>>>> list Karlovac as his town of origin. Do not know if that reference >>>>> is >>>>> to the town or perhaps the county. We have ordered the Karlovac >>>>> Catholic parish records from FHC in hopes of finding his parents, >>>>> grandparents. He and a male sibling were raised by an uncle in >>>>> Karlovac, of whom we have no information. Mijo's 1912 marriage >>>>> license >>>>> notes his mother's surname as Schumann, likely a misspelling. Can >>>>> anyone suggest possible Croatian/ Karlovaki surnames that might >>>>> sound >>>>> like Schumann to an American clerk? >>>>> >>>>> In preparing for the transcriptions from the church books, is >>>>> there >>>>> a >>>>> Karlovac Family Register that would help keep us on the right path? >>>>> Also, is there a local genealogy or history association that might >>>>> be >>>>> able to do lookups and provide historical background? Is there an >>>>> online list of cemetery sites in this town? >>>>> >>>>> Nina >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> ------------------------------- >>>>> To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to >>>>> CROATIA-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the >>>>> quotes in the subject and the body of the message >>>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> ------------------------------- >>>> To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to >>>> CROATIA-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the >>>> quotes in the subject and the body of the message >>>> >>> >>> >>> ------------------------------- >>> To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to >>> CROATIA-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the >>> quotes in the subject and the body of the message >> >> >> ------------------------------- >> To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to >> CROATIA-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the >> quotes in the subject and the body of the message >> > > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > CROATIA-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the > quotes in the subject and the body of the message > ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to CROATIA-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message "Civilization is the progress toward a society of privacy. The savage's whole existence is public, ruled by the laws of his tribe. Civilization is the process of setting man free from men." Ayn Rand 1905-1982