Interesting! I have found in the church records that I have seen that people did not move around a lot in those days, but this may have been different from place to place. Example my family had lived in the same village from around 1700 until today! It was my grandfather and 2 of his brothers who left around 1905 that changed this. They say we Americans change home on average every 4 years... that was true in my case unitl about 1986 and since then we have lived in the same home.... Robert Kurt McCrary <kurtmccrary@yahoo.com> wrote: People moved around allot in those days. How did you acquire a place to farm? Were there vacant farms one could ask the Lord to farm? If you were already a serf on a farm in 1848 and the Feudal System was abolished were you given the land you were farming for your self or did you purchase it from the Lord or the new government? How did they split up the lands or distribute the property? My grandfather came to the US from Croatia in 1910 and worked in Steel mills in Pa. briefly, then came to Michigan to become a sugar beat share cropper in Michigan's thumb. I assume share cropping was allot like what happened in Croatia to the farmers, after the end of the feudal system. Natalie Prodan wrote: Correct! Serfdom, labor system under which most European agricultural workers lived during the Middle Ages. Legally bound to reside and labor on the land owned by their lord. Serfdom began in the 900s and was at its peak in the 1100s and 1200s. The system gradually ended in western Europe during the 1400s and 1500s, but it lasted much longer in eastern Europe, persisting until the mid-1800s in Russia. The serfs comprised the vast majority of the population of medieval Europe and worked to feed themselves, their superiors, and the people of the towns and the church. Although the serfs were not slaves, they were not really free. They could not leave the manorthat is, the land owned by their lord. They were obligated to provide physical labor as well as to pay taxes and other obligations. Serfs were at the bottom of the European system of social, political, and economic relations known as Seignorialism. All land on the manor was owned by its lord. Serfs and their families were allowed to farm some of the land on the manor to support themselves; this was sufficient for the more prosperous serfs to feed a family and make the various payments to their lord. Serfs were taxed on the produce and profits of their holdings. In addition, they had to devote a fair amount of time and labor to working the lords demesne land, the section of the manor kept directly under the lords control and not used by other tenants. On Apr 1, 2007, at 4:18 AM, Tat417761@cs.com wrote: Estelle, serf was not a slave or a servant. He had use of the land and paid a specified part of the fruit to the feudal lord who took care of the administration and defense. Some similarity to our tax payments. ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to CROATIA- request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to CROATIA-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message --------------------------------- Bored stiff? Loosen up... Download and play hundreds of games for free on Yahoo! Games. ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to CROATIA-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message To learn about my October 2007 Heritage and History tour of Croatia http://www.croatia-in-english.com/rj/jerin2007.pdf
Hello Robert, I was referring to Croatia during the 1800's specifically. But people in Europe in general moved around allot. Even for more specifically I was talking about the area of Croatia known as Serbian: Srem (Cyrillic: Срем), Croatian: Srijem in my case District of Vukovar. In the church records you can see many people moving to the towns in this area from different villages miles away, certainly some coming from different countries? or locations in Hungary. I am surprised it wasn't like that especially in your investigations, I assumed it was like that all over Croatia. Even in my villages in Germany it was like that .................Not including the Migration eriods........So maybe the definition of "Allot needs to be interpreted better.........Gee I don't know what to say....;-) I n Germany in one of my towns you could leave but if you returned you had to pay to get back in. No Joke..............Many people did it. Robert Jerin <rjerin26@yahoo.com> wrote: Interesting! I have found in the church records that I have seen that people did not move around a lot in those days, but this may have been different from place to place. Example my family had lived in the same village from around 1700 until today! It was my grandfather and 2 of his brothers who left around 1905 that changed this. They say we Americans change home on average every 4 years... that was true in my case unitl about 1986 and since then we have lived in the same home.... Robert Kurt McCrary wrote: People moved around allot in those days. How did you acquire a place to farm? Were there vacant farms one could ask the Lord to farm? If you were already a serf on a farm in 1848 and the Feudal System was abolished were you given the land you were farming for your self or did you purchase it from the Lord or the new government? How did they split up the lands or distribute the property? My grandfather came to the US from Croatia in 1910 and worked in Steel mills in Pa. briefly, then came to Michigan to become a sugar beat share cropper in Michigan's thumb. I assume share cropping was allot like what happened in Croatia to the farmers, after the end of the feudal system. Natalie Prodan wrote: Correct! Serfdom, labor system under which most European agricultural workers lived during the Middle Ages. Legally bound to reside and labor on the land owned by their lord. Serfdom began in the 900s and was at its peak in the 1100s and 1200s. The system gradually ended in western Europe during the 1400s and 1500s, but it lasted much longer in eastern Europe, persisting until the mid-1800s in Russia. The serfs comprised the vast majority of the population of medieval Europe and worked to feed themselves, their superiors, and the people of the towns and the church. Although the serfs were not slaves, they were not really free. They could not leave the manorthat is, the land owned by their lord. They were obligated to provide physical labor as well as to pay taxes and other obligations. Serfs were at the bottom of the European system of social, political, and economic relations known as Seignorialism. All land on the manor was owned by its lord. Serfs and their families were allowed to farm some of the land on the manor to support themselves; this was sufficient for the more prosperous serfs to feed a family and make the various payments to their lord. Serfs were taxed on the produce and profits of their holdings. In addition, they had to devote a fair amount of time and labor to working the lords demesne land, the section of the manor kept directly under the lords control and not used by other tenants. On Apr 1, 2007, at 4:18 AM, Tat417761@cs.com wrote: Estelle, serf was not a slave or a servant. He had use of the land and paid a specified part of the fruit to the feudal lord who took care of the administration and defense. Some similarity to our tax payments. ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to CROATIA- request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to CROATIA-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message --------------------------------- Bored stiff? Loosen up... Download and play hundreds of games for free on Yahoo! Games. ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to CROATIA-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message To learn about my October 2007 Heritage and History tour of Croatia http://www.croatia-in-english.com/rj/jerin2007.pdf ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to CROATIA-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message --------------------------------- Don't be flakey. Get Yahoo! Mail for Mobile and always stay connected to friends.