Where is everyone? Haven't had any messages for awhile now. So to get things going I thought that I would let everyone know that my fall Heritage and History Tour to Croatia is available for signup. You can find the brochure with details at: http://www.kollander-travel.com/media/jerin2007.pdf Robert To learn about my October 2007 Heritage and History tour of Croatia http://www.kollander-travel.com/media/jerin2007.pdf
Robert; It looks like everybody found "their way" back to Adam and Eve. Spring has sprung and genealogy takes a back seat or they gave it up for Lent. Been having trouble with my computer and need to get a new one. God Bless. Nick ----- Original Message ----- From: "Robert Jerin" <rjerin26@yahoo.com> To: "Croatia List" <croatia-l@rootsweb.com> Sent: Thursday, March 29, 2007 10:36 PM Subject: [CROATIA] What happened to the List ! Where is everyone? Haven't had any messages for awhile now. So to get things going I thought that I would let everyone know that my fall Heritage and History Tour to Croatia is available for signup. You can find the brochure with details at: http://www.kollander-travel.com/media/jerin2007.pdf Robert To learn about my October 2007 Heritage and History tour of Croatia http://www.kollander-travel.com/media/jerin2007.pdf ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to CROATIA-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message
Hmm, you’re right. I guess if you’re not working on genealogy, you’re more involved with becoming an ancestor than a descendant. Guess it’s time to get back to work! Peg On Mar 29, 2007, at 9:36 PM, Robert Jerin wrote: > Where is everyone? Haven't had any messages for awhile now. > > So to get things going I thought that I would let everyone know > that my fall Heritage and History Tour to Croatia is available for > signup. You can find the brochure with details at: > > http://www.kollander-travel.com/media/jerin2007.pdf > > Robert > > > To learn about my October 2007 Heritage and History tour of Croatia > http://www.kollander-travel.com/media/jerin2007.pdf > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to CROATIA- > request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes > in the subject and the body of the message
Hello List, I am trying to find my families old home in Sotin, Tompojevci, Lovas, Opatovak and Tovarnik. Other descendants would also like to know where there families lived in these villages. I have the Church records for Sotin and Tompojevci and have the addresses of the old homes, but over the years, address's have changed, the only way I can identify the homes is by comparing the Church records to the Census records It seems like it has been years, I have been asking this question And I am sure someone has explained it to me before but it hasn't apparently sunk in...;-). Maybe today we have will have better luck. I thought I posted this to the list weeks ago, but I find no record of it on my computer.............and no response from the list. I was wondering if anyone could explain to me where the Croatian Census records are?. Are they available on CD, microfilm or in book form. Where does one look? How does someone obtain the Census records 1857-1931? I understand that there have been fourteen census's after 1857 covering the area of present day Croatia. These have occurred in 1857,(then after Srem / Syrmia was annexed to Croatia in 1860,) 1869, 1880, 1900, 1910, 1921, 1931, 1948, 1953, 1961, 1971, 1981, and 1991. Which one of these are available? Does the LDS carry them? I couldn't find them anywhere........ If I understand correctly, the Croatian Genealogical Society The Society holds a Census of Croatia for 1948; Census of Slavonia for 1740's; Census of Bosnia Herzegovina for 1740's. Where are the rest? I have written Sanja Frigan, and she talks about a book that has surnames in localities from 1948 and the Status Animarum. I also wrote Adam S. Eterovich, (http://www.croatians.com/) but have not yet heard from him. Where did the Croatian Genealogy Society get the copy of the 1948 Croatian Census? And if they have it why not the LDS? What is Status Animarum and the name and explanation of the book that lists the surnames in Croatia in 1948? I assume this Status Animarum is a church book? Did all churches keep them and why? Did the LDS film them? I am mostly interested in even any local census's for the District of " Eltz's" Vukovar, Vukovar-Sotin, Lovas, Tovarnik, Opatovac Tompojevci, additionally Vinkovci, Any information on this subject is appreciated Thank You Kurt --------------------------------- Don't be flakey. Get Yahoo! Mail for Mobile and always stay connected to friends.
Hello List, I believe that many of the questions about the history of the Croatians, Donauschwbens and others in Vukovar, Srem (Syrmia) have probably been answered somewhere. Unfortunately because of the language barrier, its hard to find the resources in English needed to answer my many questions. I have bought books in some of these towns but can't read them, however some have nice photo's......;-) Among other authors, I think there are about 16 books by VLADO HORVAT out there that cover the area's of villages/county in around Srem (Syrmien) and Slavonia. Does anyone have any information on him? Does he Speak English and whats his e-mail addy? Does he have a Bio? I can't seem to find one. Perhaps if I post the questions with,........ what I already think,........ I know, possibly someone can help me or other researchers in this area. Correct me if I'm wrong. It would seem Vukovar had a long lasting German influence. In 1231 Germans were reported living in Vukovar I assume with Croatians, . What I don't know is, if they mean the District or the Village, or the village? Odescalchi, a nephew of Pope Innocent XI was given the lands and title of Count of Syrmien in 1698. In July 21, 1718 Syrmien was liberated from the Turks and became part of the army controlled Military Frontier District. The area of Vukovar, Syrmia like most of Europe was under the Fuedal System. A German, Philipp Karl zu Eltz, Arch-chancellor of the Holy Roman Empire and Prince Elector of Mainz, bought the Lordship of Vukovar for 175,000 Gulden, in 1736. Who owned or sold Vukovar to the ELTZ Family? The Church or another Count or Baron (Ban) I think what might be misunderstood by someone is the size of the ELTZ Estate. I know it was by me. It was big. There was the Village of Vucovar and a DISTRICT of Vukovar Though the Eltz lived in the village/town of Vukovar, The Eltz family owned the "Estate" (County/District/Jarasok) not just the Town. >From what I understand, In 1808 the Eltz property of Vukovar, was from north of Vara, to the South of Sarengrad on the border with Ilok back west to Banovci Novi and north again to North of Tordinci. Some towns not included likely because they didn't exsist. Like Babska, Ovcara, Borovo, Lipovaca, and Bokić. However these lands were owned by the ELTZ. The ELTZ borders of Vukovar were similar, but with variation, to the border of the Vukovar Jarasok on the 1910 map of http://lazarus.elte.hu/hun/maps/1910/szerem.jpg The Eltz family owned the "Estate" and entitled to profit by it. Receiving Tith/Taxes from the Serfs. They were also responsible for the government of this area, including what ever maybe needed, and held the financial responsibility. The whole Vukovar Estate, as far as I can see, included about 36 villages! It is reported in the text excerpts contributed by Joseph Esterreicher, from "Die Deutshen in Syrmien, Slavonien, Kroatien und Bosnien" by Dr. Valentin Oberkersch, translated by Henry A Fischer http://www.dvhh.org/syrmia-slavonia/index.htm or http://www.hrastovac.net/historical/Valentin-Oberkersch.htm That at least one of the Eltz properties was Theresian settlement and was established under royal auspices at some time between 1740 - 1780. I suspect that way more than one of the Eltz villages were set up in this way and at this time. But I have not found any records to show this. The book also indicates the Eltz villages of Syrmia: Ilaca, Bapska-Novak, Schider Banovci, Svinjarevci, Jankovci, and Tordinci. had been populated or for lack of a better terminology reinforced, by Germans from the Batschka or Banat in larger numbers in later years (1800's). According to DONAUSCHWABEN IN SYRMIEN, http://www.genealogienetz.de/reg/ESE/dssyrmi.html In the years 1820 to 1850 --establishments were strengthened from daughter settlements in the Batschka, The Eltz Vukovar villages, included Sotting (Sotin), Opatovac, Lowas, Jarmina, Berak, Tompojevci, Tovarnik, Ilaca, Svinjarevci, and Babska Novak. So why don't I know when these villages were established and or re-established? Where are these records? I suspect some of the Donauschwben Villages were new or Re-established, but when and by who? If a village was ancient, and People were already living there, Did the Ban draw up a new Village Plat Map and redraw the settlement? I assume this is possible as he owned the property and those living in it, but when were these villages officially platted? I wonder if there are plans to put Stader's Works and or those that preceded him on CD? What would be great is to be able to pull up the original German Colonist records on a whole town. Or is there such an Index, if so where can we find it? As Staders Books are not completed yet are there plans to include such a tool? This way we could compare it to possibly the 1828 Census? I don't know that it says anywhere, "when" the Feudal System was abolished in 1848 it caused allot of noticeable movement of new Donaushwaben purchasing properties in Srem (Syrmia), but I would think so? I would have guessed that establishments would have increased in population more after 1848. Anyone read any reports on this perhaps I missed it? At this time, (1848) it was reported somewhere, The Eltz family reduced there property by 2/3 and it offered a economic opportunity to improve their property, which then became profitable. As I see it, if the Eltz family was doing well, this would stimulate the whole of the Vukovar economy, and buying and selling property would increase and cause a influx of Donuschwaben settlers from the Batschka.............But did it happen? Seems like the influx of Donauschwabens would have gradually moved to Vukovar Srem, between 1820 and 1850, because of population and economic reasons, and would have had maybe a boom of some sort starting about 1848 including Hungarians, Hungarian Croatians, Ruthanians and Serbs and the Donauschwabens........ In 1848 when the Size of the Vukovar estate was reduced did the border become smaller or did the sell of villages or parts of villages to the Serfs maintaining some of there properties in each or some of there villages? Is there any way to find out what properties they had left? I suppose someone had to already be running the town like a a mayor or overseer for the Eltz, Is there a way to find out who the Eltz employed in these 36 villages in the District of Vukovar, did they have a advantage over the Serfs, when land was bought? I ask this because I know (family story) my Croatian family sometime before the 1900's had lost large amounts of land because of Political trickery. I have heard of similar stories in my research............ Any historical informatin on the The ELTZ VUKOVAR VILLAGES, especially Vukovar Sotin, Opatovac, Lovas, Berak, Tompojevci, Tovarnik, and Ilaca is appreciated. Thank You Best regards Kurt --------------------------------- Expecting? Get great news right away with email Auto-Check. Try the Yahoo! Mail Beta.