Robert, You're very welcome... was glad to give your "research boat" a little shove from the dock! Merry Christmas Robert Robert <peregrine1@rogers.com> wrote: Robert thanks for the heads up on that ...and thanks for the introduction to Reich Lajos.. You have been very helpful to me as have Dr. T Former. robert At 07:11 PM 12/19/2006, you wrote: >OK... here is what I was getting at! Once they sent me a pic of a >COA for IWSICH (IVSIC) which is found in Adam Eterovich's book and >not a big deal. They then hinted at the offer of more research.. I >asked who they (The Croatian Heraldy Office) was and if they could >supply references... this is their reply... no names ... no >references....for $1,200 to $1,800 they will send, blah, blah, >blah... in short a lot of baloney that most likely has nothing to do >with my family... and oh by the way they will translate into English >... for an extra fee !!! Wow, how can they offer this so cheap >!!!! A typical scam from what I can see! Oh and if anyone has an >extra $1,500 around I could suggest better uses for it than this! > > Merry Christmas, > >Robert > >Croatian Heraldry Office wrote: > Date: Tue, 19 Dec 2006 16:18:38 +0100 >From: "Croatian Heraldry Office" >To: "Robert Jerin" >Subject: Certificate > > Dear Mr. Jerin, > > The team working on certificate is usually put together ad hoc. > Who are the experts reviewing the heraldic and genealogy > documentation depends very much on origin of applicant and it's ancestors. > The applicat is fully informed on who the consultants are. > The costs for work and material related to production of > certificate usually amount to 1,200 - 1,800 US$. > The certificate is in a form of a book, written in Croatian > language, usually 10-12 parchment pages, with hand painted colour > armorial. The certificate is calf leather bound with gold printed > armorial of ours. The whole document is also certified with apostle > by Notarius Publicus. >For extra low cost we could further provide certified translation in >English or any other language. > > Should you be interested feel free to submit to us the draft of > your genealogy. > We will then produce a draft text of the certificate and return > to you together with further advice. > > Needles to say, all submitted information (even initial request) > is strictly confidential and never shared with someone else. > > Regards > > Croatian Heraldry Office > > > > On 12/19/06, Robert Jerin wrote: Thank > you for providing this info. Can you let me know what your charges > will be for this service. And also, since your web page gives such > little detail, can you tell me who are the people or officers of > your organization? And can you provide me with verifiable > references of people who have used your services? > > Best Regards > >Robert Jerin > > > > > >"Everyone is entitled to their own opinion, but not their own >facts", Sen. Daniel Patrick Moynihan > >------------------------------- >To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to >CROATIA-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the >quotes in the subject and the body of the message > >__________ NOD32 1929 (20061219) Information __________ > >This message was checked by NOD32 antivirus system. >http://www.eset.com ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to CROATIA-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message "Everyone is entitled to their own opinion, but not their own facts", Sen. Daniel Patrick Moynihan

Hi Robert, You know what P. T. Barnum said, "theres a sucker born every second" No address, No name signed on letter, no officers, no telephone number, no business. Bill Kane

OK... here is what I was getting at! Once they sent me a pic of a COA for IWSICH (IVSIC) which is found in Adam Eterovich's book and not a big deal. They then hinted at the offer of more research.. I asked who they (The Croatian Heraldy Office) was and if they could supply references... this is their reply... no names ... no references....for $1,200 to $1,800 they will send, blah, blah, blah... in short a lot of baloney that most likely has nothing to do with my family... and oh by the way they will translate into English ... for an extra fee !!! Wow, how can they offer this so cheap !!!! A typical scam from what I can see! Oh and if anyone has an extra $1,500 around I could suggest better uses for it than this! Merry Christmas, Robert Croatian Heraldry Office <croatian.heraldry.office@gmail.com> wrote: Date: Tue, 19 Dec 2006 16:18:38 +0100 From: "Croatian Heraldry Office" <croatian.heraldry.office@gmail.com> To: "Robert Jerin" <rjerin26@yahoo.com> Subject: Certificate Dear Mr. Jerin, The team working on certificate is usually put together ad hoc. Who are the experts reviewing the heraldic and genealogy documentation depends very much on origin of applicant and it's ancestors. The applicat is fully informed on who the consultants are. The costs for work and material related to production of certificate usually amount to 1,200 - 1,800 US$. The certificate is in a form of a book, written in Croatian language, usually 10-12 parchment pages, with hand painted colour armorial. The certificate is calf leather bound with gold printed armorial of ours. The whole document is also certified with apostle by Notarius Publicus. For extra low cost we could further provide certified translation in English or any other language. Should you be interested feel free to submit to us the draft of your genealogy. We will then produce a draft text of the certificate and return to you together with further advice. Needles to say, all submitted information (even initial request) is strictly confidential and never shared with someone else. Regards Croatian Heraldry Office On 12/19/06, Robert Jerin <rjerin26@yahoo.com > wrote: Thank you for providing this info. Can you let me know what your charges will be for this service. And also, since your web page gives such little detail, can you tell me who are the people or officers of your organization? And can you provide me with verifiable references of people who have used your services? Best Regards Robert Jerin "Everyone is entitled to their own opinion, but not their own facts", Sen. Daniel Patrick Moynihan

My Thanks to all, this list has been very helpful to me..I will find Mr. Reich on the ancestry list... I have heard the name before but I do not recall having been in touch with him . boldog karácsonyt Robert At 05:41 PM 12/18/2006, you wrote: >Robert, > > In regards to obtaining records from Hungary > I would contact Mr. Reich, Lajos (Magyars > always put family name in front of given name) > who lives in Budapest. He is very helpful and > can lead you in the right direction. You can > find his postings on the Hungary forum at > Ancestry.com. I believe you have corresponded with him in the past. > > Sretan Bozic, > > Robert > >Robert <peregrine1@rogers.com> wrote: > Thank You Robert, >Do You know how or who I might apply to for death certificate for >persons who died in Ersekcsanad or in Baja? >What kind of information do I need to give them since all we know is >the name of my wife's grandfather and grand mother and there dates of >birth and death...would these certificates offer information on their >parentage as well? >I am seeing a light at the end of the tunnel but I still remain in a fog.... >Robert P Stutsman > > >At 08:46 AM 12/18/2006, you wrote: > >Robert, > > > > It is very common for people to apply for copies of Death > > Certificates. And in re to census records the US law is that > > census records are released after 70 y > > ears, thus we have access to the 1930 census... some countries > > may keep records private for 100 years but for instance in Canada I > > am finding Vital Statistics records which mention deaths in the 1980s... > > > > Looking at the 1910 Austrian Military map does not show a church, > > but one in Szt Janos and one in Szt Istvan... yet the article at > > Wikepedia mentions a Szt Antal... It is also interesting to note > > the population makeup of that town in 1715 "According to 1715 data, > > the population of Baja numbered 237 houses, of which 216 were South > > Slavic (Serb and Bunjevac), 16 Hungarian, and 5 German." Bunjevac > > are Croatian who live in that area and The Vojvodina to the south. > > > > http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Baja,_Hungary > > > > > > > > > > > > > >Robert >wrote: > > Hello Robert, > >No it is purely assumption on my part ...I was of the assumption > >that all death records everywhere are sealed for 100 years ... so > >this is not the case in Hungary? > >When Last I looked at LDS library there was nothing available on > >Ferenc Zrinyi of Baja Hungary... > >Do you know of where I can write to get these records? or does some > >site exist on the internet to look up this info. > > > >Robert P Stutsman > > > >At 07:48 AM 12/18/2006, you wrote: > > >Robert, > > > > > > So can we assume that the records are "sealed" not because of > > > some family mystery but the privacy laws of Hungary? > > > > > > I am puzzled as to why they would be sealed for 60 years... > > > unless of course if they are classified as "state secrets" ...here > > > is the law as posted on the Hungarian National Archives web > > > page.... these laws came into being after communism fell... so much > > > has changed in regards to freedom of information and such. > > > > > > > > > Relevant regulations > > > Access to public records preserved in the National Archives of > > > Hungary is regulated by the Archives Act (1995. LXVI., Amendment > > > 1997. CXL., Enacting Clauses 19 and 20/1198.[V.13.] MKM), the Data > > > Protection Act (1992. LXIII.) and the Privacy Act (1995. LXV.). > > > According to the Archives Act (hereafter AA), any natural person > > > may, upon preliminary application for access submitted to the > > > archives, have free access to archival records held in public archives. > > > > > > > > > Closure Periods of Records > > > > > > General Provisions > > > Under the regulations of the AA (Section 22) access to public > > > records is limited by a dual time restriction system: > > > > > > records created before 2 May 1990 are made available to the > > > public 15 years after their creation > > > records created after 1 May 1990 are made available to the > > > public 30 years after their creation > > > Some records are available without restriction from the date of > > > transfer. Examples of such records include published materials and > > > records (only) containing information of public interest. (See also > > > the Data Protection Act [hereafter DPA] Sections 19 and 20) > > > It is possible to have access to records before the 15 or 30 year > > > period expires. The record creator agency may allow access to > > > records closed under the terms of the 30-year rule. In the case of > > > records closed under the terms of the 15-year rule an additional > > > permission of an ad hoc scientific advisory board is also required > > > (AA Section 23). > > > > > > http://www.mol.gov.hu/index.php?akt_menu=574 > > > > > > Robert > > > > > > > > >Robert > >wrote: > > > Thank You Robert, > > >I do greatly appreciate the efforts of Dr. T Former, and yourself > > >with advice and information.. > > >I have not seen records from the LDS church either here in Canada > > >or elsewhere...those records that I am most interested in are sealed > > >and not knowing what the protocols are for unsealing such records I > > >am left somewhat confused and perplexed... > > >My wife's grandfathers records would not be made available for > > >another 60 years and no record have I found for his father or > > >grandfather...thus I am relying on the good will of cousins in > > >Hungary and the snail mail service from that country..(which I found > > >to be unreliable at best) having sent money to them that most > > >mysteriously disappeared.... > > >I do have tons of information from the internet about the Zrinyi name > > >and its history and find so much repetition that it all becomes > > >monotonous ..though I welcome any and all links as I have not seen > > >all of the three quarters of a Million hits on the Zrinyi name on the > > >Google site alone.. I do not believe I have enough time to see all of > > >them .too many of those hits are related to street names and armorial > > >information...does anyone know of a better search engine that will > > >bypass this? > > >Once again I must state that I mean no disrespect to Dr Former... and > > >apologize to the list if my responses seem somewhat blunt or without > > >gratitude... that would miles from the truth as I do appreciate any > > >and all responses with any information .My thanks and Blessings to All. > > > > > >Robert P Stutsman > > > > > > > > >At 06:40 AM 12/18/2006, you wrote: > > > >Robert, > > > > > > > > No disrespect meant. However in our pursuit of family history we > > > > will gather a great deal of information some factual, some > > > > embelished and some completely off base. And we should record all > > > > of this, not as fact but as information during our research. In > > > > any case the best way to pursue genealogical research is to gather > > > > this info, working from the present backwards. As far as any > > > > connection to famous or nobile family that will be confirmed or > > > > denied with true research and not by looking for tales from > > > > others. I believe that Dr. Former was only feeding you valid, > > > > factual information when she stated that "that it is believed that > > > > the male line descendants of Nikola Miklos SUBIC ZRINSKI, perished > > > > with the death of the son ..." While it may be interesting to > > > > "hear from others to compare family lore"... this will probably not > > > > gain you much in your research to find the origin of your wife's > > > > family. Again a methodical approach will yield what we are > > > looking for...some > > > > places to begin would be in records in Hungary.. have you located > > > > the church or civil records? You may find them via the LDS Church > > > > Family History Library... have you checked their database to see if > > > > they have records for that church or town? This is where you find > > > > the "leads" you say you are looking for. > > > > > > > > Robert > > > > > > > >Robert > > >wrote: > > > > No disrespect meant Dr.T, > > > >My only lead is family lore and I must pursue whatever leads I can > > > >find....It was told to us by my wife's father who's surname was > > > >Zrinyi that there is a relationship to Miklos at no time was it said > > > >that there was a direct descendancy....when we look at the historical > > > >perspective there were others of that name who were related to > > > >Miklos/Nikola Subic Zrinski and yet to this day there is some that > > > >claim connection to this line...I would love to hear from others who > > > >have the same family name to compare their family lore with what we > > > >have been told. > > > >Robert > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >At 10:40 PM 12/17/2006, you wrote: > > > > >This is the history of this family: > > > > > > > > > >http://www.answers.com/topic/zrinski > > > > > > > > > >There are almost 300 Croatia tel subscribers with the name > > ZRINSKI, a few > > > > >ZRINYI in Germany and probably many in Hungary. What their > > > > >connection, if any, is > > > > >to this family, I do not know. > > > > >Historically, as I mentioned earlier, it > is believed that the male line > > > > >descendants of Nikola Miklos SUBIC ZRINSKI, perished with the death > > > > >of the son of > > > > >Peter who was executed by Austrian authorities in 1671. > > > > > > > > > >dr T.Former > > > > > > > > > >------------------------------- > > > > >To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > > > > >CROATIA-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the > > > > >quotes in the subject and the body of the message > > > > > > > > > >__________ NOD32 1924 (20061215) Information __________ > > > > > > > > > >This message was checked by NOD32 antivirus system. > > > > >http://www.eset.com > > > > > > > > > > > >------------------------------- > > > >To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > > > >CROATIA-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the > > > >quotes in the subject and the body of the message > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >"Everyone is entitled to their own opinion, but not their own > > > >facts", Sen. Daniel Patrick Moynihan > > > > > > > >------------------------------- > > > >To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > > > >CROATIA-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the > > > >quotes in the subject and the body of the message > > > > > > > >__________ NOD32 1924 (20061215) Information __________ > > > > > > > >This message was checked by NOD32 antivirus system. > > > >http://www.eset.com > > > > > > > > >------------------------------- > > >To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > > >CROATIA-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the > > >quotes in the subject and the body of the message > > > > > > > > > > > >"Everyone is entitled to their own opinion, but not their own > > >facts", Sen. Daniel Patrick Moynihan > > > > > >------------------------------- > > >To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > > >CROATIA-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the > > >quotes in the subject and the body of the message > > > > > >__________ NOD32 1925 (20061218) Information __________ > > > > > >This message was checked by NOD32 antivirus system. > > >http://www.eset.com > > > > > >------------------------------- > >To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > >CROATIA-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the > >quotes in the subject and the body of the message > > > > > >------------------------------- > >To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > >CROATIA-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the > >quotes in the subject and the body of the message > > > >__________ NOD32 1925 (20061218) Information __________ > > > >This message was checked by NOD32 antivirus system. > >http://www.eset.com > > >------------------------------- >To unsubscribe from the list, please send an >email to CROATIA-request@rootsweb.com with the >word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the >subject and the body of the message > > > >"Everyone is entitled to their own opinion, but >not their own facts", Sen. Daniel Patrick Moynihan > >------------------------------- >To unsubscribe from the list, please send an >email to CROATIA-request@rootsweb.com with the >word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the >subject and the body of the message > >__________ NOD32 1926 (20061218) Information __________ > >This message was checked by NOD32 antivirus system. >http://www.eset.com

Robert, In regards to obtaining records from Hungary I would contact Mr. Reich, Lajos (Magyars always put family name in front of given name) who lives in Budapest. He is very helpful and can lead you in the right direction. You can find his postings on the Hungary forum at Ancestry.com. I believe you have corresponded with him in the past. Sretan Bozic, Robert Robert <peregrine1@rogers.com> wrote: Thank You Robert, Do You know how or who I might apply to for death certificate for persons who died in Ersekcsanad or in Baja? What kind of information do I need to give them since all we know is the name of my wife's grandfather and grand mother and there dates of birth and death...would these certificates offer information on their parentage as well? I am seeing a light at the end of the tunnel but I still remain in a fog.... Robert P Stutsman At 08:46 AM 12/18/2006, you wrote: >Robert, > > It is very common for people to apply for copies of Death > Certificates. And in re to census records the US law is that > census records are released after 70 y > ears, thus we have access to the 1930 census... some countries > may keep records private for 100 years but for instance in Canada I > am finding Vital Statistics records which mention deaths in the 1980s... > > Looking at the 1910 Austrian Military map does not show a church, > but one in Szt Janos and one in Szt Istvan... yet the article at > Wikepedia mentions a Szt Antal... It is also interesting to note > the population makeup of that town in 1715 "According to 1715 data, > the population of Baja numbered 237 houses, of which 216 were South > Slavic (Serb and Bunjevac), 16 Hungarian, and 5 German." Bunjevac > are Croatian who live in that area and The Vojvodina to the south. > > http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Baja,_Hungary > > > > > > >Robert wrote: > Hello Robert, >No it is purely assumption on my part ...I was of the assumption >that all death records everywhere are sealed for 100 years ... so >this is not the case in Hungary? >When Last I looked at LDS library there was nothing available on >Ferenc Zrinyi of Baja Hungary... >Do you know of where I can write to get these records? or does some >site exist on the internet to look up this info. > >Robert P Stutsman > >At 07:48 AM 12/18/2006, you wrote: > >Robert, > > > > So can we assume that the records are "sealed" not because of > > some family mystery but the privacy laws of Hungary? > > > > I am puzzled as to why they would be sealed for 60 years... > > unless of course if they are classified as "state secrets" ...here > > is the law as posted on the Hungarian National Archives web > > page.... these laws came into being after communism fell... so much > > has changed in regards to freedom of information and such. > > > > > > Relevant regulations > > Access to public records preserved in the National Archives of > > Hungary is regulated by the Archives Act (1995. LXVI., Amendment > > 1997. CXL., Enacting Clauses 19 and 20/1198.[V.13.] MKM), the Data > > Protection Act (1992. LXIII.) and the Privacy Act (1995. LXV.). > > According to the Archives Act (hereafter AA), any natural person > > may, upon preliminary application for access submitted to the > > archives, have free access to archival records held in public archives. > > > > > > Closure Periods of Records > > > > General Provisions > > Under the regulations of the AA (Section 22) access to public > > records is limited by a dual time restriction system: > > > > records created before 2 May 1990 are made available to the > > public 15 years after their creation > > records created after 1 May 1990 are made available to the > > public 30 years after their creation > > Some records are available without restriction from the date of > > transfer. Examples of such records include published materials and > > records (only) containing information of public interest. (See also > > the Data Protection Act [hereafter DPA] Sections 19 and 20) > > It is possible to have access to records before the 15 or 30 year > > period expires. The record creator agency may allow access to > > records closed under the terms of the 30-year rule. In the case of > > records closed under the terms of the 15-year rule an additional > > permission of an ad hoc scientific advisory board is also required > > (AA Section 23). > > > > http://www.mol.gov.hu/index.php?akt_menu=574 > > > > Robert > > > > > >Robert >wrote: > > Thank You Robert, > >I do greatly appreciate the efforts of Dr. T Former, and yourself > >with advice and information.. > >I have not seen records from the LDS church either here in Canada > >or elsewhere...those records that I am most interested in are sealed > >and not knowing what the protocols are for unsealing such records I > >am left somewhat confused and perplexed... > >My wife's grandfathers records would not be made available for > >another 60 years and no record have I found for his father or > >grandfather...thus I am relying on the good will of cousins in > >Hungary and the snail mail service from that country..(which I found > >to be unreliable at best) having sent money to them that most > >mysteriously disappeared.... > >I do have tons of information from the internet about the Zrinyi name > >and its history and find so much repetition that it all becomes > >monotonous ..though I welcome any and all links as I have not seen > >all of the three quarters of a Million hits on the Zrinyi name on the > >Google site alone.. I do not believe I have enough time to see all of > >them .too many of those hits are related to street names and armorial > >information...does anyone know of a better search engine that will > >bypass this? > >Once again I must state that I mean no disrespect to Dr Former... and > >apologize to the list if my responses seem somewhat blunt or without > >gratitude... that would miles from the truth as I do appreciate any > >and all responses with any information .My thanks and Blessings to All. > > > >Robert P Stutsman > > > > > >At 06:40 AM 12/18/2006, you wrote: > > >Robert, > > > > > > No disrespect meant. However in our pursuit of family history we > > > will gather a great deal of information some factual, some > > > embelished and some completely off base. And we should record all > > > of this, not as fact but as information during our research. In > > > any case the best way to pursue genealogical research is to gather > > > this info, working from the present backwards. As far as any > > > connection to famous or nobile family that will be confirmed or > > > denied with true research and not by looking for tales from > > > others. I believe that Dr. Former was only feeding you valid, > > > factual information when she stated that "that it is believed that > > > the male line descendants of Nikola Miklos SUBIC ZRINSKI, perished > > > with the death of the son ..." While it may be interesting to > > > "hear from others to compare family lore"... this will probably not > > > gain you much in your research to find the origin of your wife's > > > family. Again a methodical approach will yield what we are > > looking for...some > > > places to begin would be in records in Hungary.. have you located > > > the church or civil records? You may find them via the LDS Church > > > Family History Library... have you checked their database to see if > > > they have records for that church or town? This is where you find > > > the "leads" you say you are looking for. > > > > > > Robert > > > > > >Robert > >wrote: > > > No disrespect meant Dr.T, > > >My only lead is family lore and I must pursue whatever leads I can > > >find....It was told to us by my wife's father who's surname was > > >Zrinyi that there is a relationship to Miklos at no time was it said > > >that there was a direct descendancy....when we look at the historical > > >perspective there were others of that name who were related to > > >Miklos/Nikola Subic Zrinski and yet to this day there is some that > > >claim connection to this line...I would love to hear from others who > > >have the same family name to compare their family lore with what we > > >have been told. > > >Robert > > > > > > > > > > > >At 10:40 PM 12/17/2006, you wrote: > > > >This is the history of this family: > > > > > > > >http://www.answers.com/topic/zrinski > > > > > > > >There are almost 300 Croatia tel subscribers with the name > ZRINSKI, a few > > > >ZRINYI in Germany and probably many in Hungary. What their > > > >connection, if any, is > > > >to this family, I do not know. > > > >Historically, as I mentioned earlier, it is believed that the male line > > > >descendants of Nikola Miklos SUBIC ZRINSKI, perished with the death > > > >of the son of > > > >Peter who was executed by Austrian authorities in 1671. > > > > > > > >dr T.Former > > > > > > > >------------------------------- > > > >To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > > > >CROATIA-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the > > > >quotes in the subject and the body of the message > > > > > > > >__________ NOD32 1924 (20061215) Information __________ > > > > > > > >This message was checked by NOD32 antivirus system. > > > >http://www.eset.com > > > > > > > > >------------------------------- > > >To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > > >CROATIA-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the > > >quotes in the subject and the body of the message > > > > > > > > > > > >"Everyone is entitled to their own opinion, but not their own > > >facts", Sen. Daniel Patrick Moynihan > > > > > >------------------------------- > > >To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > > >CROATIA-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the > > >quotes in the subject and the body of the message > > > > > >__________ NOD32 1924 (20061215) Information __________ > > > > > >This message was checked by NOD32 antivirus system. > > >http://www.eset.com > > > > > >------------------------------- > >To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > >CROATIA-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the > >quotes in the subject and the body of the message > > > > > > > >"Everyone is entitled to their own opinion, but not their own > >facts", Sen. Daniel Patrick Moynihan > > > >------------------------------- > >To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > >CROATIA-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the > >quotes in the subject and the body of the message > > > >__________ NOD32 1925 (20061218) Information __________ > > > >This message was checked by NOD32 antivirus system. > >http://www.eset.com > > >------------------------------- >To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to >CROATIA-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the >quotes in the subject and the body of the message > > >------------------------------- >To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to >CROATIA-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the >quotes in the subject and the body of the message > >__________ NOD32 1925 (20061218) Information __________ > >This message was checked by NOD32 antivirus system. >http://www.eset.com ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to CROATIA-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message "Everyone is entitled to their own opinion, but not their own facts", Sen. Daniel Patrick Moynihan

Thank You Robert, Do You know how or who I might apply to for death certificate for persons who died in Ersekcsanad or in Baja? What kind of information do I need to give them since all we know is the name of my wife's grandfather and grand mother and there dates of birth and death...would these certificates offer information on their parentage as well? I am seeing a light at the end of the tunnel but I still remain in a fog.... Robert P Stutsman At 08:46 AM 12/18/2006, you wrote: >Robert, > > It is very common for people to apply for copies of Death > Certificates. And in re to census records the US law is that > census records are released after 70 y > ears, thus we have access to the 1930 census... some countries > may keep records private for 100 years but for instance in Canada I > am finding Vital Statistics records which mention deaths in the 1980s... > > Looking at the 1910 Austrian Military map does not show a church, > but one in Szt Janos and one in Szt Istvan... yet the article at > Wikepedia mentions a Szt Antal... It is also interesting to note > the population makeup of that town in 1715 "According to 1715 data, > the population of Baja numbered 237 houses, of which 216 were South > Slavic (Serb and Bunjevac), 16 Hungarian, and 5 German." Bunjevac > are Croatian who live in that area and The Vojvodina to the south. > > http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Baja,_Hungary > > > > > > >Robert <peregrine1@rogers.com> wrote: > Hello Robert, >No it is purely assumption on my part ...I was of the assumption >that all death records everywhere are sealed for 100 years ... so >this is not the case in Hungary? >When Last I looked at LDS library there was nothing available on >Ferenc Zrinyi of Baja Hungary... >Do you know of where I can write to get these records? or does some >site exist on the internet to look up this info. > >Robert P Stutsman > >At 07:48 AM 12/18/2006, you wrote: > >Robert, > > > > So can we assume that the records are "sealed" not because of > > some family mystery but the privacy laws of Hungary? > > > > I am puzzled as to why they would be sealed for 60 years... > > unless of course if they are classified as "state secrets" ...here > > is the law as posted on the Hungarian National Archives web > > page.... these laws came into being after communism fell... so much > > has changed in regards to freedom of information and such. > > > > > > Relevant regulations > > Access to public records preserved in the National Archives of > > Hungary is regulated by the Archives Act (1995. LXVI., Amendment > > 1997. CXL., Enacting Clauses 19 and 20/1198.[V.13.] MKM), the Data > > Protection Act (1992. LXIII.) and the Privacy Act (1995. LXV.). > > According to the Archives Act (hereafter AA), any natural person > > may, upon preliminary application for access submitted to the > > archives, have free access to archival records held in public archives. > > > > > > Closure Periods of Records > > > > General Provisions > > Under the regulations of the AA (Section 22) access to public > > records is limited by a dual time restriction system: > > > > records created before 2 May 1990 are made available to the > > public 15 years after their creation > > records created after 1 May 1990 are made available to the > > public 30 years after their creation > > Some records are available without restriction from the date of > > transfer. Examples of such records include published materials and > > records (only) containing information of public interest. (See also > > the Data Protection Act [hereafter DPA] Sections 19 and 20) > > It is possible to have access to records before the 15 or 30 year > > period expires. The record creator agency may allow access to > > records closed under the terms of the 30-year rule. In the case of > > records closed under the terms of the 15-year rule an additional > > permission of an ad hoc scientific advisory board is also required > > (AA Section 23). > > > > http://www.mol.gov.hu/index.php?akt_menu=574 > > > > Robert > > > > > >Robert >wrote: > > Thank You Robert, > >I do greatly appreciate the efforts of Dr. T Former, and yourself > >with advice and information.. > >I have not seen records from the LDS church either here in Canada > >or elsewhere...those records that I am most interested in are sealed > >and not knowing what the protocols are for unsealing such records I > >am left somewhat confused and perplexed... > >My wife's grandfathers records would not be made available for > >another 60 years and no record have I found for his father or > >grandfather...thus I am relying on the good will of cousins in > >Hungary and the snail mail service from that country..(which I found > >to be unreliable at best) having sent money to them that most > >mysteriously disappeared.... > >I do have tons of information from the internet about the Zrinyi name > >and its history and find so much repetition that it all becomes > >monotonous ..though I welcome any and all links as I have not seen > >all of the three quarters of a Million hits on the Zrinyi name on the > >Google site alone.. I do not believe I have enough time to see all of > >them .too many of those hits are related to street names and armorial > >information...does anyone know of a better search engine that will > >bypass this? > >Once again I must state that I mean no disrespect to Dr Former... and > >apologize to the list if my responses seem somewhat blunt or without > >gratitude... that would miles from the truth as I do appreciate any > >and all responses with any information .My thanks and Blessings to All. > > > >Robert P Stutsman > > > > > >At 06:40 AM 12/18/2006, you wrote: > > >Robert, > > > > > > No disrespect meant. However in our pursuit of family history we > > > will gather a great deal of information some factual, some > > > embelished and some completely off base. And we should record all > > > of this, not as fact but as information during our research. In > > > any case the best way to pursue genealogical research is to gather > > > this info, working from the present backwards. As far as any > > > connection to famous or nobile family that will be confirmed or > > > denied with true research and not by looking for tales from > > > others. I believe that Dr. Former was only feeding you valid, > > > factual information when she stated that "that it is believed that > > > the male line descendants of Nikola Miklos SUBIC ZRINSKI, perished > > > with the death of the son ..." While it may be interesting to > > > "hear from others to compare family lore"... this will probably not > > > gain you much in your research to find the origin of your wife's > > > family. Again a methodical approach will yield what we are > > looking for...some > > > places to begin would be in records in Hungary.. have you located > > > the church or civil records? You may find them via the LDS Church > > > Family History Library... have you checked their database to see if > > > they have records for that church or town? This is where you find > > > the "leads" you say you are looking for. > > > > > > Robert > > > > > >Robert > >wrote: > > > No disrespect meant Dr.T, > > >My only lead is family lore and I must pursue whatever leads I can > > >find....It was told to us by my wife's father who's surname was > > >Zrinyi that there is a relationship to Miklos at no time was it said > > >that there was a direct descendancy....when we look at the historical > > >perspective there were others of that name who were related to > > >Miklos/Nikola Subic Zrinski and yet to this day there is some that > > >claim connection to this line...I would love to hear from others who > > >have the same family name to compare their family lore with what we > > >have been told. > > >Robert > > > > > > > > > > > >At 10:40 PM 12/17/2006, you wrote: > > > >This is the history of this family: > > > > > > > >http://www.answers.com/topic/zrinski > > > > > > > >There are almost 300 Croatia tel subscribers with the name > ZRINSKI, a few > > > >ZRINYI in Germany and probably many in Hungary. What their > > > >connection, if any, is > > > >to this family, I do not know. > > > >Historically, as I mentioned earlier, it is believed that the male line > > > >descendants of Nikola Miklos SUBIC ZRINSKI, perished with the death > > > >of the son of > > > >Peter who was executed by Austrian authorities in 1671. > > > > > > > >dr T.Former > > > > > > > >------------------------------- > > > >To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > > > >CROATIA-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the > > > >quotes in the subject and the body of the message > > > > > > > >__________ NOD32 1924 (20061215) Information __________ > > > > > > > >This message was checked by NOD32 antivirus system. > > > >http://www.eset.com > > > > > > > > >------------------------------- > > >To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > > >CROATIA-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the > > >quotes in the subject and the body of the message > > > > > > > > > > > >"Everyone is entitled to their own opinion, but not their own > > >facts", Sen. Daniel Patrick Moynihan > > > > > >------------------------------- > > >To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > > >CROATIA-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the > > >quotes in the subject and the body of the message > > > > > >__________ NOD32 1924 (20061215) Information __________ > > > > > >This message was checked by NOD32 antivirus system. > > >http://www.eset.com > > > > > >------------------------------- > >To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > >CROATIA-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the > >quotes in the subject and the body of the message > > > > > > > >"Everyone is entitled to their own opinion, but not their own > >facts", Sen. Daniel Patrick Moynihan > > > >------------------------------- > >To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > >CROATIA-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the > >quotes in the subject and the body of the message > > > >__________ NOD32 1925 (20061218) Information __________ > > > >This message was checked by NOD32 antivirus system. > >http://www.eset.com > > >------------------------------- >To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to >CROATIA-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the >quotes in the subject and the body of the message > > >------------------------------- >To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to >CROATIA-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the >quotes in the subject and the body of the message > >__________ NOD32 1925 (20061218) Information __________ > >This message was checked by NOD32 antivirus system. >http://www.eset.com

Hello Robert, No it is purely assumption on my part ...I was of the assumption that all death records everywhere are sealed for 100 years ... so this is not the case in Hungary? When Last I looked at LDS library there was nothing available on Ferenc Zrinyi of Baja Hungary... Do you know of where I can write to get these records? or does some site exist on the internet to look up this info. Robert P Stutsman At 07:48 AM 12/18/2006, you wrote: >Robert, > > So can we assume that the records are "sealed" not because of > some family mystery but the privacy laws of Hungary? > > I am puzzled as to why they would be sealed for 60 years... > unless of course if they are classified as "state secrets" ...here > is the law as posted on the Hungarian National Archives web > page.... these laws came into being after communism fell... so much > has changed in regards to freedom of information and such. > > > Relevant regulations > Access to public records preserved in the National Archives of > Hungary is regulated by the Archives Act (1995. LXVI., Amendment > 1997. CXL., Enacting Clauses 19 and 20/1198.[V.13.] MKM), the Data > Protection Act (1992. LXIII.) and the Privacy Act (1995. LXV.). > According to the Archives Act (hereafter AA), any natural person > may, upon preliminary application for access submitted to the > archives, have free access to archival records held in public archives. > > > Closure Periods of Records > > General Provisions > Under the regulations of the AA (Section 22) access to public > records is limited by a dual time restriction system: > > records created before 2 May 1990 are made available to the > public 15 years after their creation > records created after 1 May 1990 are made available to the > public 30 years after their creation > Some records are available without restriction from the date of > transfer. Examples of such records include published materials and > records (only) containing information of public interest. (See also > the Data Protection Act [hereafter DPA] Sections 19 and 20) > It is possible to have access to records before the 15 or 30 year > period expires. The record creator agency may allow access to > records closed under the terms of the 30-year rule. In the case of > records closed under the terms of the 15-year rule an additional > permission of an ad hoc scientific advisory board is also required > (AA Section 23). > > http://www.mol.gov.hu/index.php?akt_menu=574 > > Robert > > >Robert <peregrine1@rogers.com> wrote: > Thank You Robert, >I do greatly appreciate the efforts of Dr. T Former, and yourself >with advice and information.. >I have not seen records from the LDS church either here in Canada >or elsewhere...those records that I am most interested in are sealed >and not knowing what the protocols are for unsealing such records I >am left somewhat confused and perplexed... >My wife's grandfathers records would not be made available for >another 60 years and no record have I found for his father or >grandfather...thus I am relying on the good will of cousins in >Hungary and the snail mail service from that country..(which I found >to be unreliable at best) having sent money to them that most >mysteriously disappeared.... >I do have tons of information from the internet about the Zrinyi name >and its history and find so much repetition that it all becomes >monotonous ..though I welcome any and all links as I have not seen >all of the three quarters of a Million hits on the Zrinyi name on the >Google site alone.. I do not believe I have enough time to see all of >them .too many of those hits are related to street names and armorial >information...does anyone know of a better search engine that will >bypass this? >Once again I must state that I mean no disrespect to Dr Former... and >apologize to the list if my responses seem somewhat blunt or without >gratitude... that would miles from the truth as I do appreciate any >and all responses with any information .My thanks and Blessings to All. > >Robert P Stutsman > > >At 06:40 AM 12/18/2006, you wrote: > >Robert, > > > > No disrespect meant. However in our pursuit of family history we > > will gather a great deal of information some factual, some > > embelished and some completely off base. And we should record all > > of this, not as fact but as information during our research. In > > any case the best way to pursue genealogical research is to gather > > this info, working from the present backwards. As far as any > > connection to famous or nobile family that will be confirmed or > > denied with true research and not by looking for tales from > > others. I believe that Dr. Former was only feeding you valid, > > factual information when she stated that "that it is believed that > > the male line descendants of Nikola Miklos SUBIC ZRINSKI, perished > > with the death of the son ..." While it may be interesting to > > "hear from others to compare family lore"... this will probably not > > gain you much in your research to find the origin of your wife's > > family. Again a methodical approach will yield what we are > looking for...some > > places to begin would be in records in Hungary.. have you located > > the church or civil records? You may find them via the LDS Church > > Family History Library... have you checked their database to see if > > they have records for that church or town? This is where you find > > the "leads" you say you are looking for. > > > > Robert > > > >Robert >wrote: > > No disrespect meant Dr.T, > >My only lead is family lore and I must pursue whatever leads I can > >find....It was told to us by my wife's father who's surname was > >Zrinyi that there is a relationship to Miklos at no time was it said > >that there was a direct descendancy....when we look at the historical > >perspective there were others of that name who were related to > >Miklos/Nikola Subic Zrinski and yet to this day there is some that > >claim connection to this line...I would love to hear from others who > >have the same family name to compare their family lore with what we > >have been told. > >Robert > > > > > > > >At 10:40 PM 12/17/2006, you wrote: > > >This is the history of this family: > > > > > >http://www.answers.com/topic/zrinski > > > > > >There are almost 300 Croatia tel subscribers with the name ZRINSKI, a few > > >ZRINYI in Germany and probably many in Hungary. What their > > >connection, if any, is > > >to this family, I do not know. > > >Historically, as I mentioned earlier, it is believed that the male line > > >descendants of Nikola Miklos SUBIC ZRINSKI, perished with the death > > >of the son of > > >Peter who was executed by Austrian authorities in 1671. > > > > > >dr T.Former > > > > > >------------------------------- > > >To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > > >CROATIA-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the > > >quotes in the subject and the body of the message > > > > > >__________ NOD32 1924 (20061215) Information __________ > > > > > >This message was checked by NOD32 antivirus system. > > >http://www.eset.com > > > > > >------------------------------- > >To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > >CROATIA-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the > >quotes in the subject and the body of the message > > > > > > > >"Everyone is entitled to their own opinion, but not their own > >facts", Sen. Daniel Patrick Moynihan > > > >------------------------------- > >To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > >CROATIA-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the > >quotes in the subject and the body of the message > > > >__________ NOD32 1924 (20061215) Information __________ > > > >This message was checked by NOD32 antivirus system. > >http://www.eset.com > > >------------------------------- >To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to >CROATIA-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the >quotes in the subject and the body of the message > > > >"Everyone is entitled to their own opinion, but not their own >facts", Sen. Daniel Patrick Moynihan > >------------------------------- >To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to >CROATIA-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the >quotes in the subject and the body of the message > >__________ NOD32 1925 (20061218) Information __________ > >This message was checked by NOD32 antivirus system. >http://www.eset.com

Thank You Robert, I do greatly appreciate the efforts of Dr. T Former, and yourself with advice and information.. I have not seen records from the LDS church either here in Canada or elsewhere...those records that I am most interested in are sealed and not knowing what the protocols are for unsealing such records I am left somewhat confused and perplexed... My wife's grandfathers records would not be made available for another 60 years and no record have I found for his father or grandfather...thus I am relying on the good will of cousins in Hungary and the snail mail service from that country..(which I found to be unreliable at best) having sent money to them that most mysteriously disappeared.... I do have tons of information from the internet about the Zrinyi name and its history and find so much repetition that it all becomes monotonous ..though I welcome any and all links as I have not seen all of the three quarters of a Million hits on the Zrinyi name on the Google site alone.. I do not believe I have enough time to see all of them .too many of those hits are related to street names and armorial information...does anyone know of a better search engine that will bypass this? Once again I must state that I mean no disrespect to Dr Former... and apologize to the list if my responses seem somewhat blunt or without gratitude... that would miles from the truth as I do appreciate any and all responses with any information .My thanks and Blessings to All. Robert P Stutsman At 06:40 AM 12/18/2006, you wrote: >Robert, > > No disrespect meant. However in our pursuit of family history we > will gather a great deal of information some factual, some > embelished and some completely off base. And we should record all > of this, not as fact but as information during our research. In > any case the best way to pursue genealogical research is to gather > this info, working from the present backwards. As far as any > connection to famous or nobile family that will be confirmed or > denied with true research and not by looking for tales from > others. I believe that Dr. Former was only feeding you valid, > factual information when she stated that "that it is believed that > the male line descendants of Nikola Miklos SUBIC ZRINSKI, perished > with the death of the son ..." While it may be interesting to > "hear from others to compare family lore"... this will probably not > gain you much in your research to find the origin of your wife's > family. Again a methodical approach will yield what we are looking for...some > places to begin would be in records in Hungary.. have you located > the church or civil records? You may find them via the LDS Church > Family History Library... have you checked their database to see if > they have records for that church or town? This is where you find > the "leads" you say you are looking for. > > Robert > >Robert <peregrine1@rogers.com> wrote: > No disrespect meant Dr.T, >My only lead is family lore and I must pursue whatever leads I can >find....It was told to us by my wife's father who's surname was >Zrinyi that there is a relationship to Miklos at no time was it said >that there was a direct descendancy....when we look at the historical >perspective there were others of that name who were related to >Miklos/Nikola Subic Zrinski and yet to this day there is some that >claim connection to this line...I would love to hear from others who >have the same family name to compare their family lore with what we >have been told. >Robert > > > >At 10:40 PM 12/17/2006, you wrote: > >This is the history of this family: > > > >http://www.answers.com/topic/zrinski > > > >There are almost 300 Croatia tel subscribers with the name ZRINSKI, a few > >ZRINYI in Germany and probably many in Hungary. What their > >connection, if any, is > >to this family, I do not know. > >Historically, as I mentioned earlier, it is believed that the male line > >descendants of Nikola Miklos SUBIC ZRINSKI, perished with the death > >of the son of > >Peter who was executed by Austrian authorities in 1671. > > > >dr T.Former > > > >------------------------------- > >To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > >CROATIA-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the > >quotes in the subject and the body of the message > > > >__________ NOD32 1924 (20061215) Information __________ > > > >This message was checked by NOD32 antivirus system. > >http://www.eset.com > > >------------------------------- >To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to >CROATIA-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the >quotes in the subject and the body of the message > > > >"Everyone is entitled to their own opinion, but not their own >facts", Sen. Daniel Patrick Moynihan > >------------------------------- >To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to >CROATIA-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the >quotes in the subject and the body of the message > >__________ NOD32 1924 (20061215) Information __________ > >This message was checked by NOD32 antivirus system. >http://www.eset.com

No disrespect meant Dr.T, My only lead is family lore and I must pursue whatever leads I can find....It was told to us by my wife's father who's surname was Zrinyi that there is a relationship to Miklos at no time was it said that there was a direct descendancy....when we look at the historical perspective there were others of that name who were related to Miklos/Nikola Subic Zrinski and yet to this day there is some that claim connection to this line...I would love to hear from others who have the same family name to compare their family lore with what we have been told. Robert At 10:40 PM 12/17/2006, you wrote: >This is the history of this family: > >http://www.answers.com/topic/zrinski > >There are almost 300 Croatia tel subscribers with the name ZRINSKI, a few >ZRINYI in Germany and probably many in Hungary. What their >connection, if any, is >to this family, I do not know. >Historically, as I mentioned earlier, it is believed that the male line >descendants of Nikola Miklos SUBIC ZRINSKI, perished with the death >of the son of >Peter who was executed by Austrian authorities in 1671. > >dr T.Former > >------------------------------- >To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to >CROATIA-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the >quotes in the subject and the body of the message > >__________ NOD32 1924 (20061215) Information __________ > >This message was checked by NOD32 antivirus system. >http://www.eset.com

Robert, It is very common for people to apply for copies of Death Certificates. And in re to census records the US law is that census records are released after 70 y ears, thus we have access to the 1930 census... some countries may keep records private for 100 years but for instance in Canada I am finding Vital Statistics records which mention deaths in the 1980s... Looking at the 1910 Austrian Military map does not show a church, but one in Szt Janos and one in Szt Istvan... yet the article at Wikepedia mentions a Szt Antal... It is also interesting to note the population makeup of that town in 1715 "According to 1715 data, the population of Baja numbered 237 houses, of which 216 were South Slavic (Serb and Bunjevac), 16 Hungarian, and 5 German." Bunjevac are Croatian who live in that area and The Vojvodina to the south. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Baja,_Hungary Robert <peregrine1@rogers.com> wrote: Hello Robert, No it is purely assumption on my part ...I was of the assumption that all death records everywhere are sealed for 100 years ... so this is not the case in Hungary? When Last I looked at LDS library there was nothing available on Ferenc Zrinyi of Baja Hungary... Do you know of where I can write to get these records? or does some site exist on the internet to look up this info. Robert P Stutsman At 07:48 AM 12/18/2006, you wrote: >Robert, > > So can we assume that the records are "sealed" not because of > some family mystery but the privacy laws of Hungary? > > I am puzzled as to why they would be sealed for 60 years... > unless of course if they are classified as "state secrets" ...here > is the law as posted on the Hungarian National Archives web > page.... these laws came into being after communism fell... so much > has changed in regards to freedom of information and such. > > > Relevant regulations > Access to public records preserved in the National Archives of > Hungary is regulated by the Archives Act (1995. LXVI., Amendment > 1997. CXL., Enacting Clauses 19 and 20/1198.[V.13.] MKM), the Data > Protection Act (1992. LXIII.) and the Privacy Act (1995. LXV.). > According to the Archives Act (hereafter AA), any natural person > may, upon preliminary application for access submitted to the > archives, have free access to archival records held in public archives. > > > Closure Periods of Records > > General Provisions > Under the regulations of the AA (Section 22) access to public > records is limited by a dual time restriction system: > > records created before 2 May 1990 are made available to the > public 15 years after their creation > records created after 1 May 1990 are made available to the > public 30 years after their creation > Some records are available without restriction from the date of > transfer. Examples of such records include published materials and > records (only) containing information of public interest. (See also > the Data Protection Act [hereafter DPA] Sections 19 and 20) > It is possible to have access to records before the 15 or 30 year > period expires. The record creator agency may allow access to > records closed under the terms of the 30-year rule. In the case of > records closed under the terms of the 15-year rule an additional > permission of an ad hoc scientific advisory board is also required > (AA Section 23). > > http://www.mol.gov.hu/index.php?akt_menu=574 > > Robert > > >Robert wrote: > Thank You Robert, >I do greatly appreciate the efforts of Dr. T Former, and yourself >with advice and information.. >I have not seen records from the LDS church either here in Canada >or elsewhere...those records that I am most interested in are sealed >and not knowing what the protocols are for unsealing such records I >am left somewhat confused and perplexed... >My wife's grandfathers records would not be made available for >another 60 years and no record have I found for his father or >grandfather...thus I am relying on the good will of cousins in >Hungary and the snail mail service from that country..(which I found >to be unreliable at best) having sent money to them that most >mysteriously disappeared.... >I do have tons of information from the internet about the Zrinyi name >and its history and find so much repetition that it all becomes >monotonous ..though I welcome any and all links as I have not seen >all of the three quarters of a Million hits on the Zrinyi name on the >Google site alone.. I do not believe I have enough time to see all of >them .too many of those hits are related to street names and armorial >information...does anyone know of a better search engine that will >bypass this? >Once again I must state that I mean no disrespect to Dr Former... and >apologize to the list if my responses seem somewhat blunt or without >gratitude... that would miles from the truth as I do appreciate any >and all responses with any information .My thanks and Blessings to All. > >Robert P Stutsman > > >At 06:40 AM 12/18/2006, you wrote: > >Robert, > > > > No disrespect meant. However in our pursuit of family history we > > will gather a great deal of information some factual, some > > embelished and some completely off base. And we should record all > > of this, not as fact but as information during our research. In > > any case the best way to pursue genealogical research is to gather > > this info, working from the present backwards. As far as any > > connection to famous or nobile family that will be confirmed or > > denied with true research and not by looking for tales from > > others. I believe that Dr. Former was only feeding you valid, > > factual information when she stated that "that it is believed that > > the male line descendants of Nikola Miklos SUBIC ZRINSKI, perished > > with the death of the son ..." While it may be interesting to > > "hear from others to compare family lore"... this will probably not > > gain you much in your research to find the origin of your wife's > > family. Again a methodical approach will yield what we are > looking for...some > > places to begin would be in records in Hungary.. have you located > > the church or civil records? You may find them via the LDS Church > > Family History Library... have you checked their database to see if > > they have records for that church or town? This is where you find > > the "leads" you say you are looking for. > > > > Robert > > > >Robert >wrote: > > No disrespect meant Dr.T, > >My only lead is family lore and I must pursue whatever leads I can > >find....It was told to us by my wife's father who's surname was > >Zrinyi that there is a relationship to Miklos at no time was it said > >that there was a direct descendancy....when we look at the historical > >perspective there were others of that name who were related to > >Miklos/Nikola Subic Zrinski and yet to this day there is some that > >claim connection to this line...I would love to hear from others who > >have the same family name to compare their family lore with what we > >have been told. > >Robert > > > > > > > >At 10:40 PM 12/17/2006, you wrote: > > >This is the history of this family: > > > > > >http://www.answers.com/topic/zrinski > > > > > >There are almost 300 Croatia tel subscribers with the name ZRINSKI, a few > > >ZRINYI in Germany and probably many in Hungary. What their > > >connection, if any, is > > >to this family, I do not know. > > >Historically, as I mentioned earlier, it is believed that the male line > > >descendants of Nikola Miklos SUBIC ZRINSKI, perished with the death > > >of the son of > > >Peter who was executed by Austrian authorities in 1671. > > > > > >dr T.Former > > > > > >------------------------------- > > >To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > > >CROATIA-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the > > >quotes in the subject and the body of the message > > > > > >__________ NOD32 1924 (20061215) Information __________ > > > > > >This message was checked by NOD32 antivirus system. > > >http://www.eset.com > > > > > >------------------------------- > >To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > >CROATIA-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the > >quotes in the subject and the body of the message > > > > > > > >"Everyone is entitled to their own opinion, but not their own > >facts", Sen. Daniel Patrick Moynihan > > > >------------------------------- > >To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > >CROATIA-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the > >quotes in the subject and the body of the message > > > >__________ NOD32 1924 (20061215) Information __________ > > > >This message was checked by NOD32 antivirus system. > >http://www.eset.com > > >------------------------------- >To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to >CROATIA-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the >quotes in the subject and the body of the message > > > >"Everyone is entitled to their own opinion, but not their own >facts", Sen. Daniel Patrick Moynihan > >------------------------------- >To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to >CROATIA-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the >quotes in the subject and the body of the message > >__________ NOD32 1925 (20061218) Information __________ > >This message was checked by NOD32 antivirus system. >http://www.eset.com ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to CROATIA-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message

Robert, So can we assume that the records are "sealed" not because of some family mystery but the privacy laws of Hungary? I am puzzled as to why they would be sealed for 60 years... unless of course if they are classified as "state secrets" ...here is the law as posted on the Hungarian National Archives web page.... these laws came into being after communism fell... so much has changed in regards to freedom of information and such. Relevant regulations Access to public records preserved in the National Archives of Hungary is regulated by the Archives Act (1995. LXVI., Amendment 1997. CXL., Enacting Clauses 19 and 20/1198.[V.13.] MKM), the Data Protection Act (1992. LXIII.) and the Privacy Act (1995. LXV.). According to the Archives Act (hereafter AA), any natural person may, upon preliminary application for access submitted to the archives, have free access to archival records held in public archives. Closure Periods of Records General Provisions Under the regulations of the AA (Section 22) access to public records is limited by a dual time restriction system: records created before 2 May 1990 are made available to the public 15 years after their creation records created after 1 May 1990 are made available to the public 30 years after their creation Some records are available without restriction from the date of transfer. Examples of such records include published materials and records (only) containing information of public interest. (See also the Data Protection Act [hereafter DPA] Sections 19 and 20) It is possible to have access to records before the 15 or 30 year period expires. The record creator agency may allow access to records closed under the terms of the 30-year rule. In the case of records closed under the terms of the 15-year rule an additional permission of an ad hoc scientific advisory board is also required (AA Section 23). http://www.mol.gov.hu/index.php?akt_menu=574 Robert Robert <peregrine1@rogers.com> wrote: Thank You Robert, I do greatly appreciate the efforts of Dr. T Former, and yourself with advice and information.. I have not seen records from the LDS church either here in Canada or elsewhere...those records that I am most interested in are sealed and not knowing what the protocols are for unsealing such records I am left somewhat confused and perplexed... My wife's grandfathers records would not be made available for another 60 years and no record have I found for his father or grandfather...thus I am relying on the good will of cousins in Hungary and the snail mail service from that country..(which I found to be unreliable at best) having sent money to them that most mysteriously disappeared.... I do have tons of information from the internet about the Zrinyi name and its history and find so much repetition that it all becomes monotonous ..though I welcome any and all links as I have not seen all of the three quarters of a Million hits on the Zrinyi name on the Google site alone.. I do not believe I have enough time to see all of them .too many of those hits are related to street names and armorial information...does anyone know of a better search engine that will bypass this? Once again I must state that I mean no disrespect to Dr Former... and apologize to the list if my responses seem somewhat blunt or without gratitude... that would miles from the truth as I do appreciate any and all responses with any information .My thanks and Blessings to All. Robert P Stutsman At 06:40 AM 12/18/2006, you wrote: >Robert, > > No disrespect meant. However in our pursuit of family history we > will gather a great deal of information some factual, some > embelished and some completely off base. And we should record all > of this, not as fact but as information during our research. In > any case the best way to pursue genealogical research is to gather > this info, working from the present backwards. As far as any > connection to famous or nobile family that will be confirmed or > denied with true research and not by looking for tales from > others. I believe that Dr. Former was only feeding you valid, > factual information when she stated that "that it is believed that > the male line descendants of Nikola Miklos SUBIC ZRINSKI, perished > with the death of the son ..." While it may be interesting to > "hear from others to compare family lore"... this will probably not > gain you much in your research to find the origin of your wife's > family. Again a methodical approach will yield what we are looking for...some > places to begin would be in records in Hungary.. have you located > the church or civil records? You may find them via the LDS Church > Family History Library... have you checked their database to see if > they have records for that church or town? This is where you find > the "leads" you say you are looking for. > > Robert > >Robert wrote: > No disrespect meant Dr.T, >My only lead is family lore and I must pursue whatever leads I can >find....It was told to us by my wife's father who's surname was >Zrinyi that there is a relationship to Miklos at no time was it said >that there was a direct descendancy....when we look at the historical >perspective there were others of that name who were related to >Miklos/Nikola Subic Zrinski and yet to this day there is some that >claim connection to this line...I would love to hear from others who >have the same family name to compare their family lore with what we >have been told. >Robert > > > >At 10:40 PM 12/17/2006, you wrote: > >This is the history of this family: > > > >http://www.answers.com/topic/zrinski > > > >There are almost 300 Croatia tel subscribers with the name ZRINSKI, a few > >ZRINYI in Germany and probably many in Hungary. What their > >connection, if any, is > >to this family, I do not know. > >Historically, as I mentioned earlier, it is believed that the male line > >descendants of Nikola Miklos SUBIC ZRINSKI, perished with the death > >of the son of > >Peter who was executed by Austrian authorities in 1671. > > > >dr T.Former > > > >------------------------------- > >To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > >CROATIA-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the > >quotes in the subject and the body of the message > > > >__________ NOD32 1924 (20061215) Information __________ > > > >This message was checked by NOD32 antivirus system. > >http://www.eset.com > > >------------------------------- >To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to >CROATIA-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the >quotes in the subject and the body of the message > > > >"Everyone is entitled to their own opinion, but not their own >facts", Sen. Daniel Patrick Moynihan > >------------------------------- >To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to >CROATIA-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the >quotes in the subject and the body of the message > >__________ NOD32 1924 (20061215) Information __________ > >This message was checked by NOD32 antivirus system. >http://www.eset.com ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to CROATIA-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message "Everyone is entitled to their own opinion, but not their own facts", Sen. Daniel Patrick Moynihan

Robert, No disrespect meant. However in our pursuit of family history we will gather a great deal of information some factual, some embelished and some completely off base. And we should record all of this, not as fact but as information during our research. In any case the best way to pursue genealogical research is to gather this info, working from the present backwards. As far as any connection to famous or nobile family that will be confirmed or denied with true research and not by looking for tales from others. I believe that Dr. Former was only feeding you valid, factual information when she stated that "that it is believed that the male line descendants of Nikola Miklos SUBIC ZRINSKI, perished with the death of the son ..." While it may be interesting to "hear from others to compare family lore"... this will probably not gain you much in your research to find the origin of your wife's family. Again a methodical approach will yield what we are looking for...some places to begin would be in records in Hungary.. have you located the church or civil records? You may find them via the LDS Church Family History Library... have you checked their database to see if they have records for that church or town? This is where you find the "leads" you say you are looking for. Robert Robert <peregrine1@rogers.com> wrote: No disrespect meant Dr.T, My only lead is family lore and I must pursue whatever leads I can find....It was told to us by my wife's father who's surname was Zrinyi that there is a relationship to Miklos at no time was it said that there was a direct descendancy....when we look at the historical perspective there were others of that name who were related to Miklos/Nikola Subic Zrinski and yet to this day there is some that claim connection to this line...I would love to hear from others who have the same family name to compare their family lore with what we have been told. Robert At 10:40 PM 12/17/2006, you wrote: >This is the history of this family: > >http://www.answers.com/topic/zrinski > >There are almost 300 Croatia tel subscribers with the name ZRINSKI, a few >ZRINYI in Germany and probably many in Hungary. What their >connection, if any, is >to this family, I do not know. >Historically, as I mentioned earlier, it is believed that the male line >descendants of Nikola Miklos SUBIC ZRINSKI, perished with the death >of the son of >Peter who was executed by Austrian authorities in 1671. > >dr T.Former > >------------------------------- >To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to >CROATIA-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the >quotes in the subject and the body of the message > >__________ NOD32 1924 (20061215) Information __________ > >This message was checked by NOD32 antivirus system. >http://www.eset.com ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to CROATIA-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message "Everyone is entitled to their own opinion, but not their own facts", Sen. Daniel Patrick Moynihan

This is the history of this family: http://www.answers.com/topic/zrinski There are almost 300 Croatia tel subscribers with the name ZRINSKI, a few ZRINYI in Germany and probably many in Hungary. What their connection, if any, is to this family, I do not know. Historically, as I mentioned earlier, it is believed that the male line descendants of Nikola Miklos SUBIC ZRINSKI, perished with the death of the son of Peter who was executed by Austrian authorities in 1671. dr T.Former

Dear Ella, Our apologies for not being clear enough. When we mentioned "Der Adel von Kroatien und Slavonien" by Dr Ivan v. Bojnicic from 1899 or any other armorial register at our disposal" we actually meant that the armorial "Der Adel von Kroatien und Slavonien" was issued year 1899. It covers most if not all of heraldry achievements recorded until the year 1899. Heraldry archived after the year 1899 would not be covered by that armorial. Regards Croatian Heraldry Office On 12/16/06, Ella <twigs_269@comcast.net> wrote: > > It appears this is the only "Heraldry" book they have available and that > is only from 1899 forward. > > "Der Adel von Kroatien und Slavonien" by Dr Ivan v. Bojnicic from 1899 or > any other armorial register at our disposal" > > Ella > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > CROATIA-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the > quotes in the subject and the body of the message >

Here is the answer I got from the Heral Dear David, We have indeed found references to noble families Bakic and Matkovic in Bojnicic's armorial register. We could scan and e-mail to you images of armorials and text (free of charge). Unfortunately the drawings are black and white and the text is in German. We could produce colour hand painted armorials and provide translations. On Vuksic we found a connection to noble familiy Vuzich but unfortunately at present we have no additional information. If you are related to Matkovic we could eventually offer to compile all genealogy information you will provide and put it together in a form of "coat-of-arms, genealogy and nobility certificate". It is a book, writen in Croatian language, usualy 10-12 pergament pages, with hand painted colour armorial. The certificate is leather bound with gold printed armorial of ours. The whole document is also certified with apostle by Notarius Publicus. Should you need any further assistance please do not hesitate to contact us. Croatian Heraldry Office dry Office:

Thank You Dr. T. Former, Please if you can, how is it that the name Zrinyi is carried on to this day? Robert P Stutsman At 08:02 PM 12/16/2006, you wrote: >The name of the Zrinski family was SUBIC. Zrinski was later added based on >the locality of their castle. >The male line ended with death of Petar's son Ivan IV Anton- 1709 in prison. > >dr T.Former > >------------------------------- >To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to >CROATIA-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the >quotes in the subject and the body of the message > >__________ NOD32 1924 (20061215) Information __________ > >This message was checked by NOD32 antivirus system. >http://www.eset.com

The name of the Zrinski family was SUBIC. Zrinski was later added based on the locality of their castle. The male line ended with death of Petar's son Ivan IV Anton- 1709 in prison. dr T.Former

Cirilica Don ----- Original Message ----- From: "Robert Jerin" <rjerin26@yahoo.com> To: <croatia@rootsweb.com> Sent: Saturday, December 16, 2006 3:53 PM Subject: Re: [CROATIA] Heraldry > Is it Cyrllic or is it Glagolica? > > Robert > > Don Marinkovich <djedo@2z.net> wrote: > My appologies to Heraldry. There were attachments that I missed. They are > in cyrlic, but I might be able to get it translated. > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > CROATIA-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the > quotes in the subject and the body of the message > > > > "Everyone is entitled to their own opinion, but not their own facts", Sen. > Daniel Patrick Moynihan > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > CROATIA-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the > quotes in the subject and the body of the message >

It appears this is the only "Heraldry" book they have available and that is only from 1899 forward. "Der Adel von Kroatien und Slavonien" by Dr Ivan v. Bojnicic from 1899 or any other armorial register at our disposal" Ella

Is it Cyrllic or is it Glagolica? Robert Don Marinkovich <djedo@2z.net> wrote: My appologies to Heraldry. There were attachments that I missed. They are in cyrlic, but I might be able to get it translated. ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to CROATIA-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message "Everyone is entitled to their own opinion, but not their own facts", Sen. Daniel Patrick Moynihan