Thank you everyone for your help. Unfortunately I am working very short handed at my office the past four months and finding all my in-basket mail to be more stress than joy as it was before!!! I hope to hire someone soon and be back to my geneaology! Take care, Denise, researching BIANCHI, BOBIC in Cavtat, Croatia. You can continue to write me off line if you would like. _dprsjacksn@aol.com_ (mailto:dprsjacksn@aol.com) Thanks
Lori, Croatian words do not have double consonants nor double vowels... it would be tefanci (postal code 51328) Radočaj Brodski is perhaps the place you want rather than Radocaj ( which is near Generalski Stol Radocaj Brodski is (postal code 51301) is in the Vrbovsko municipality and had a population of 0 people in 2001 whils Stefanci had a population of 4 Yet the phone book lists 1 Dupliak, 3 GLAD, 2 LISAC for Rodcaj Brodski and for Stefanci 1 KOSLICA, 2 MUHVIC, And now the point of this was??? Robert Lori <lori-n@juno.com> wrote: Hi everyone, it's been a while since I've been able to work at this. I hope you are all doing well. Does anyone know the population or # of families in the town of Steffanci, and same question for Radocaj? I've been googling my little fingers off, but can't even find anything close! Thanks, and Happy New Year to all of you. Lori Nichols Colorado ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to CROATIA-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message
Eulogy - Mr. Jerome Brentar Dear Mrs. Dora Brentar, Carolyn Suzy & Boris Music along with Christopher, Suzy and Victoria; Mar Ann & Tomsilav Drazina with Mara and Ante; John and Dora . Brothers Joe, John, Frank Brentar and your families as well as the family of the late George Brentar. Reverend Fathers and all of you present friends of Mr. Jerome Brentar: On behalf of our parish, that will forever cherish our Jerry, as a long- time member of our church choir and our church council and as a person who led an exemplary, saintly life, I have been asked to speak about him and frankly Im truly honored to do so, however, on the other hand I was somewhat nervous to accept speaking about our Jerry because who could ever cover and describe a person of such a vast and extensive life, full of vigor and a person who touched so many lives. Mr. Brentars life is interesting to all of us as most of us have been touched by him in his life and many of us share in the ordeals that his parents went through in their journey for a better life. Jerrys dad came to this country in 1899 with his mother and father. His mother came to the states in 1920 to be married to his father and Jerry was born in 1922. Grandpa Brentar was one of the founding fathers of our church and he was the custodian for many years and the family lived right across from the church on E. 40th. Jerry became a choir member in 1928 at the age of six, went through the St. Pauls grade school and upon graduating he enrolled into John Hay High School. Jerrys athletic abilities landed him a football and wrestling scholarship at the University of Michigan State. In 1943 he was drafted into the US Air Force and took his training in Texas and California. As pilots were not in great demand anymore, he was sent to Europe as a reservist in the 93rd Armored Cavalry under Gen. William Patton. In 1945 he was sent back to Santa Maria, Camp Cook, to be trained for the Pacific arena of war. Since the war finally ended, Jerry was released in 1946 and continued his studies at the University of Michigan State. At Michigan State, Jerry was a boxer and football player. He was a member of the Neuman Club, The International Club; he sang in the acapella choir, the campus church choir and was a member of the Saint Thomas Aquinas Club. After the World War II, Jerry along with his brother Joe, went to Europe and while in Prag, The Czeck Republic, they were accepted to travel to Yugoslavia and were part of the international brigade that was building the railway Samac, by Zenica. After some time they were closely watched as they were accused of corrupting the Yugoslav youth with freedom ideas.. After some months of work, they were allowed to visit the birth place of their father, Klana in Istria. That same day Mgsr Milan Simcic, a relative of the Brentars, was planning his escape to Italy so that he could continue his Theological Studies for the priesthood. On Christmas Eve in 1947 the two Brentars came home and finalized their schooling in 1948 at Western Reserve University. In the summer of 1948 Jerry again went to Europe, working on a ship as a helper to the baker who never showed up and Jerry became the primary baker on ship. While in Europe, Jerry heard that the International Refugee Organization (IRO) was looking for people who spoke foreign languages and who could be interpreters for refugees and he was accepted. As a member of the International Organization, Jerry was free to travel across Europe and started meeting many Croatians in the refugee camps. When Fr. Mirko Covic begged for someone to help the Croatian widows and their children, Jerry accepted the challenge. A massive exodus from Croatia by tens of thousands of Croatian civilians filled the Austrian refugee camps without any protection, exposed to hunger and sickness, very often being deported to the very cruel Serbo-communists to a certain death or a long life of hard labor in the Yugoslav prisons. One Sunday in 1949, while in church at the refugee camp St. Martin (by Linz) in Austria, Father Mirko Covic announced that he had met a young American soldier of Croatian heritage, Jerome Brentar, who was very much interested in how we lived with our families and wanted to visit us. He told us that he had to return home, leaving us with the hope, however, that he would try to do something for those widows and their children. When Mr. Brentar became a Screening Officer he had a chance to travel more and meet with well known Croatian intellectuals. In Austria he met Fathers Mirko Covic, Vilim Cecelja as well as Tomislav Mesic and Dr. Jure Prpic. In Rome he met Prof. Krunoslav Draganovic, Fra Berto Dragicevicm Fra Kruno Pandzic and Josip Bosiljevic. In Germany he got to know Fra Dominik Susnjara and father Ivan Vitezic. In the refugee camp Asten, Jerry met his wife Dora Culina in 1948. Two years later he sponsored her coming to Cleveland and they were married in St. Pauls church in 1952. When Mr. Brentar came back to the States, he made good on his promise he organized a network of people, mostly his family and friends who were to be sponsors. Soon the Abramovic, Boras, Boskovic, Bulic, Dosens, Dzeba, Fikter, Hlosek, Ivaskovic, Jerinic, Kresic, Majetic, Pervan, Politi, Prim, Raguz, Spiranovic and the Vranic family and others started coming to the United States. Many, many more Croatians, Germans, Slovenians, Hungarians and others came after us and they all felt the goodness of Mr. Brentar in one way or another. Jerry, his parents and his brothers, as they surely shared Jerrys humanistic ideas, opened their home to the steady stream of immigrants. Sometimes the house was filled with as many as a dozen persons, with children, who slept on army cots and ate their meals in their kitchen until they found housing. Jerrys free services did not end once the immigrants were settled in apartments and jobs. Invariably a family crisis would occur in Europe and an emergency visit needed to be arranged. Working as a social worker now in Cleveland, Jerry would get a call and be off to Cleveland Hopkins to book a flight. He made so many trips there that Albert Von Hofe, then the Lufthansa district sales manager, suggested that Brentar go into travel business because he was bringing more business than most travel agents and for free. To satisfy the needs of a growing family, Jerry took the suggestion and in 1958 opened his office at 749 E. 185th Street. When the new immigrants were able to go on vacations they did remember their old friend Jerome Brentar and booked their trips through Europa Travel. Jerry expanded his business and built the beautiful Swiss Chalet on E. 185th Str. He brought the Oberammergau wood carvers from Austria who created several original works on the site. His children became his business partners. Mr. William Miller, The Plain Dealer reporter, once described Mr. Brentar as: A native Clevelander, with a strong Croatian upbringing, Brentar looks and acts more like a soft-spoken, small town parish priest than a leader of jetsetters. A deeply religious man, he has worked closely with the Catholic church his entire life Another of Jerrys strong characteristics is to stand up for what is right and what is just, especially when it meant defending people who escaped from the communist rule. Jerry was interested in helping one and all, the Croatian Andrija Artukovic or the Ukranian Ivan Damjanjuk absorbing great financial losses in the latter case. The well-known Croatian patriot Tomislav Mesic, wrote in the early 1950s: We have a man in America, by the name of Jerome, who has done miracles in helping the Croatian people and Croatia. If we had only five more like him, I believe that Croatia would soon be free of the Yugo-communists and would be reborn in true Christian fundamentals. The immigrants that Jerry brought to this country expressed their gratitude when they prepared a Banquet in his honor on February 23, 2003 at the Croatian Lodge in Eastlake. The Cleveland Croatians certainly considered him as the American Croatian of the century and described him so in the article published in the Croatian Almanac in 2004. Jerrys love for music was unparalleled. He was a member of 4 choirs, notably the Cleveland Singers Club and the Klapa Prijatelji octet. He was the oldest member of the St. Paul Croatian Church Choir. I can only thank God that he blessed me and allowed me to stand next to the saintly person, that Jerry was, for the last forty seven (47) years. We sang four-part music and Jerry was the anchor of not only the tenor section but of the whole choir. I know that all the pastors of St. Paul were grateful to him from Mgrs Domladovac and Misic, and all the way to Father Mirko Hladni and Zvonko Blasko. I know that these two priests had a special admiration for him. May Jerrys exemplary life of daily attendance of Holy Mass take him to heaven to be with his loved ones and his deceased son Jerome and be a guide to all of us, as we shall be forever thankful to him. Mark G. Spiranovich "Civilization is the progress toward a society of privacy. The savage's whole existence is public, ruled by the laws of his tribe. Civilization is the process of setting man free from men." Ayn Rand 1905-1982
Denise, I am only the moderator for Croatian Genalogical... but I did not unsusribe you from the list... I just turned off emails to you... so you should not recieve any email from Croatian Genealogical Yahoo group.. In regards to Croatia rootsweb list you need to send an email as per the instructions at the link below... sorry but I am not moderator for Croatia Rootsweb List http://lists.rootsweb.com/index/intl/HRV/CROATIA.html Robert Jerin DPRSjacksn@aol.com wrote: Thank you everyone for your help. Unfortunately I am working very short handed at my office the past four months and finding all my in-basket mail to be more stress than joy as it was before!!! I hope to hire someone soon and be back to my geneaology! Take care, Denise, researching BIANCHI, BOBIC in Cavtat, Croatia. You can continue to write me off line if you would like. _dprsjacksn@aol.com_ (mailto:dprsjacksn@aol.com) Thanks ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to CROATIA-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message "Civilization is the progress toward a society of privacy. The savage's whole existence is public, ruled by the laws of his tribe. Civilization is the process of setting man free from men." Ayn Rand 1905-1982
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I think the large issue for Roman Catholicism is that the person have the age of understanding for receiving these SACRAMENTS and unfortunately, without the training and education they don't understand what they are getting and why. There are other faiths that object to infant baptism, and recieving communion/Eucharist before at least being a young adult (13-14). I wonder how we can set up a group site to discuss this off-topic issue. Dave
Why don't you email me at my personal email - davem9759@juno.com so we can continue this conversation. I wasn't assuming anything... I've seen a great deal and heard a lot as well. We also experienced the conception and carry problems. Dave
Dave you brought up some very good points and a few that I shared with Robert. I teach PSR and volunteer with the youth groups. I've been doing it since 1989. I agree with the viewpoint that sports, camps, "afterschool activities" are being held at a higher ranking than PSR or attending Church. It's a disgrace in our Faith. Between the last 2 years I have had 3 students drop out of PSR due to the class "conflicting" with basketball, football or cheerleading. Nevermind now that our Parish offers PSR at earlier times so that the children can come to PSR (have a meal as well) and then be able to be at home for 1-1/2 hours before "practice" starts! We've even create a 1 week summer camp for PSR. Hardly covers 4 chapters let alone a full school year but we're trying "to serve." Parents are now pushing for first eucharist/reconciliation/ confirmation to be done ALL AT THE SAME TIME in 2nd Grade!!! Is that a crazy request or what?!? But sure enough a few parishes in good ol' Cleveland, Ohio are doing it. Their thought is if they appease the parents that they will retain the memberships and/or the donations. Wrong. In my opinion those parents pushing this are not the parents that are "regular" monetary contributors, voluteers, nor attend mass on a semi- regular to regular basis. We've even created a "home school" version of PSR. We pay for everything! Even give you a movie! Still we can't get parents to DO the work. I'm very truly concerned about the future of our Catholic Faith and future legacy. Children now pass from grade to grade and teachers cannot have them repeat PSR grades even though the child has not attended more than 1 day of class, can't recite one prayer, can't answer basic questions of our Faith, can't tell you the difference from Bible stories or even list the most basic holidays that we Catholics celebrate. Yes, it's THAT bad! Anyhoo my point is that this is why the Church's are closing. My generation. We are not doing anything, or if we are doing something we're not doing enough. And we don't teach our kids and SHOW our children the importance of our Faith and the importance of respect for all Faiths and God's people! Thus Churches will continue to wean as well as members... Other Faiths invest in their youth, in their Churches, in their senior members, in their history and just keep building upon it. We are not. They are increasing membership and size, we are just maintaining (if you have to generalize). The one thing that I will have to agree to disagree with you is the number of children for the "rich" verses the "poor" and/or the "caucasion" verses the "minorities" groups. Many minorities do not have access to education, health care, etc. Even with so many negative externals (lack of monies and access to education/healthcare/better wages/employment, etc) against them they do have a lot of "ethnic" (lack of a better word) positives and blessing therefore they can and are able to conceive, carry to full term, and have children with less complications. White women have a lot of difficulty conceiving and/or bearing children and/or carrying fetuses to full term even with fantastic health care at their disposal. I find that perplexing and concerning. White women also wait a longer time than minorities to begin conceiving children. Most of the blame is due to education and standards of living. Everyone wants to blame women for wanting cars, large houses, fancy vacations, etc. But the fact is that just having a bachelor degree is no longer "enough" to get one hired and/or to earn a decent living. And by decent I don't mean fancy cars/houses/vacations, etc. I just mean a house, health insurance, basic car, basic living expenses. So by the time we start thinking of having children you find yourself at the age of 30 or 32! Those that are "lucky" to find an appropriate loving "mate" may be able to marry and to "try" to conceive children at the age of 24. But more and more white women at that age are having to go into IVF for assistance or perhaps to try adoption since they've had so many miscarriages. I met one lady at the age of 32 who had SIX (6) miscarriages. She then signed up for adoption and that took over 2 years just to get on a "list". I know for one of my clients is a professional group of OB/GYN's, Anthesiaologists, etc. They keep complaining that they see younger and younger patients coming in and it concerns them. The older patients (40+) they can understand those dinamics but the younger is concerning. So my point in all this babble of mine is to say, just be careful blaming "white" women for not having enough children. For most it's not their own choice but that is what life gave them. I know in my own case I lost my firstborn due to a birth defect. He died at the age of 3 weeks. Due to being hooked up to all sorts of life support machines I never was able to hold him until he died during hospital procedures. After that I was blessed to have 1 more child. Then his father left us while I was pregnant. My dream of having a big family was gone. Now I"m too old to have more children. But at least I am one of the lucky ones to actually have a child. I see so many couples write down in pen and tears in our Parish "prayer book" how they can't even conceive a child, let alone carry them to full term. So with each "race" there are the positives and the negatives. And behind each face that shows a story is a factual story, so continue to be wise not to "assume" for most or all peoples. Great email! Thanks for the read! :) On Jan 25, 2007, at 7:20 AM, davem9759@juno.com wrote: Well, this has been interesting conversation, so let me put in my 2 cents. There was a HUGE drop of support for the church after the so-called sex scandals came to light. Some of these cases were more than questionable, but to avoid more bad publicity, and scandal the church paid off on a number of cases, and offered free counseling to some of the suffering souls. Some of the problems we are seeing today is a result of our own irreverence. We've become a society that wanted to be able to go to church Sunday morning in blue jeans and tank tops. Surely the parents that allowed their children to do so, or even argued against having to dress up helped to foster the socio-trend which seems to have taken the importance and value of attending church out of the paradigm. That paradigm is that we once viewed church as significant and crucial to family and society as we attempted to become a civilized culture. Church was a place where we gave God his glory and received our forgiveness and the sacrament of life - the Eucharist. With the degradation of value in attending church because of the loss of it's significance in our lives for personal and spiritual growth other activities became more important to us in forming social bonds - i.e soccer games, and football games. As the soccer mom culture grew, and the children's activities became ! more critical to their growth and development, church became a less necessary activity. Parent's tend to believe that their child is the star of the game, we want our children to be successful, and somehow sports became more important that having the values that we receive by attending church. Soccer is todays church, and unfortunately - very few good values other than sportsmanship are taught. Depending on the coach - the new role model replacing the parish priest; some sportsmanship may even be sacrificed for the sake of the game. What lesson does that teach? Next is the church paradigm which causes people to move out of parish or stop attending. The value placed on new members. I get my envelopes all the time. I gave my time prolife, RCIA, ministry formation, etc.; and when the calling came (I think it was always there) at 40 to request to become a deacon - the old farts group that controls the Diaconate (guys in their late 50's and 60's) said I was too young. - I wonder what Jeremiah would have said to that. When new members join the church they are quickly grabbed for as many groups as they can handle and soon become burned out, and uninterested - even avoiding church to prevent being asked for more time. I've been a lifelong Catholic at the same parish - I see it all the time. So how do you breathe new life into a parish that is suffering - A parish on our west side of town was failing to meet it's bills, and attendance. Someone came up with a brilliant idea that breathed life into it.. welcome the minorities. First they set up Spanish language masses, and brought in people from the other parishes to help with their needs - i.e volunteers to help distribute clothing donations, etc. Some churches found Asian speaking members to assist in their community. The problem was that the church didn't reflect the community and those people didn't attend. Once that was addressed attendance improved. My parish is in the middle of an affluent white neighborhood, and a poor mostly minority community. The affluent families only had one or two children ( I blame that on liberal idealogy - birth control and abortion), while the minority families have at least 2 -3 children. These families are working people who tend to get looks when they come into the ch! apel. While the parish says it is welcoming - the community of parishioners shows otherwise. I think Christ would be ashamed! We need to get the churches to become truly welcoming, and truly supportive of the people who live in the community that should be able to attend that parish. That of itself will improve things. Many latins, asians and other groups are being welcomed into the "evangelical" or mega rock and roll churches. We haven't as Catholics addressed that. When was the last time you saw a "Catholic Church" add on the tv or radio. To end this on the main point - to ask to preserve a church because it has been historically part of a culture probably won't do anything to help the church's bottom line and likely will result in the closure unless it can be preserved as a shrine or basillica. The best bet is to speak of the church's early history of helping a community of immigrants (Croatians, etc.) and redirecting that focus to the new immigrants or minoritys in order to improve attendance. I find it amazing that schools are closing because of lack of support, in this area at least only one school closed years ago because of that; now it is being rehabilitated. Their is a large population of suburbians who want their children in the safer "private" parochial schools, maybe from a sense of elitism or esteem - still if it appeals to them why not address it as a marketing tool. Good luck in the rest. I hope that the Croatian heritage can be preserved. Dave ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to CROATIA- request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message
I don't have a comment on the whole "where does the blame lie for the churches closing" debate, but I do have one comment to make about the following paragraph: --- Natalie Prodan <prodan@alltel.net> wrote: > Parents are now pushing for first > eucharist/reconciliation/ > confirmation to be done ALL AT THE SAME TIME in 2nd > Grade!!! Is that > a crazy request or what?!? But sure enough a few > parishes in good ol' > Cleveland, Ohio are doing it. Their thought is if > they appease the > parents that they will retain the memberships and/or > the donations. This is how it's done in the Byzantine Catholic Church. The child is baptized, confirmed AND given first communion at the same time, when they're only a few months old! We also allow our priests to get married, even in American again (finally!). Guess we must be crazy ;) These links have a little more information about Byzantine Catholicism and our crazy ways: http://www.parma.org/what.htm http://home.att.net/~Local_Catholic/ OK, I guess I DO have a comment on the debate after all. If the (Roman) Catholic Church needs to keep these sacraments "separate" in order for the church to continue to receive monetary support, is that really right? It's a form of spiritual blackmail on the part of the church, "You MUST remain a member until all these sacraments have been imparted on you over a span of 16 years, or your child will not be a full-fledged Catholic!" Whereas on the other hand, if the parents want their children to receive all the sacraments in one go solely so their family no longer has an "obligation" to the church, where has the church gone wrong? Not with the children, but with those children's parents when THEY were attending PSR and receiving their sacraments. How strong is someone's faith, really, if they're only remaining a member of the church so that their child can receive the sacraments necessary to "make" them a Catholic? There's more to it than that, and somewhere the message got lost. For families like that, whether their child receives all the sacraments at one time or spread out over a span of 16 years, the only thing the church gains is a few more years of monetary contributions. Which is grand, but monetary contributions can only keep a church going so long if its parishioners are just automatons going through the motions rather than making their parish a real part of their lives and the community. Diane, who is one of the church's youth here in Cleveland at age 31, and also a prime example of the white gal with no children yet since I just got married in June 2006. We are not gossiping cruelly. We are just trying to understand life. --Natalie Goldberg Diane M. Homza ek242dmh@yahoo.com ____________________________________________________________________________________ Bored stiff? Loosen up... Download and play hundreds of games for free on Yahoo! Games. http://games.yahoo.com/games/front
Dr Tatjana, Perhaps the best place for those papers is right there in Kansas City, as they have a lovely little museum. And for those searching for info now and in the future for family from KC it would be a natural place for them. Also don't forget the Croatian Heritage Museum and Library in Cleveland (Eastlake) Ohio, which is very accessable and already has an extensive collection of documentation. http://www.croatianmuseum.com/index.php Then there is a also the Croatian Fraternal Union in Pittsburgh PA Robert Tat417761@cs.com wrote: While it may be difficult and costly to preserve the buildings, I would suggest to try and collect the papers, and pictures pertaining to the history of Croatian church in America.. The immigrants' families have many such priceless documents. Searching through Google I found that the project exists at the Minnesota University: Home >For Educators &Students >Fellowship Opportunities : Louis P. Novak The Louis P. Novak Fellowship Croatian American Studies Croatian American Studies Fund : IHRC : University of Minnesota dr Tatjana Former In a message dated 1/22/2007 5:52:26 PM Eastern Standard Time, rjerin26@yahoo.com writes: > > I recieved this notice from one of the posters to a genealogy message board. > > This trend is alarming, while we can all understand the reduced church > attendence and parohicial school enrollment (at least in some areas), I believe > that some Bishops and Diocese Offices do not respect the contributions made > by the European ethinic communities to the building of the Roman Catholic > faith in America. Recently the olderst Roman Catholic Croatian church in > America, St Nicholas in Pittsburgh PA, closed. What a shame that we did not all > raise our voices (and maybe also money!) to save such an important > American-Croatian institution. How many more will close before the community acts in a > positive manner to help? > > ********* > > St. John The Baptist Grade School in Kansas > City, Kansas is scheduled to be closed. It will be consolidated with > two other grade schools, and the students will be moved to the grade > school which is based at the archdiocese catherdral. > > St. John's is important in the history of Croatians in the United States. It > was the first Croatian grade school, established and opened > in 1909, under the direction of Msgr. Martin Krmpotic, shortly after the > church was constructed and dedicated in 1904. The history of the parish > is outlined in the book The Croatian Immigrants in America by George > Prpic, a professor at John Carroll University in Cleveland. The parish > complex was also the sight of the first Croatian orphanage in this > country, founded and run by the same sisters who staffed the school. > The orphanage has long closed, and the building is the site of the > Strawberry Hill Museum. > > I have written the archbishop to make him aware of the significance of > the school and the church, which is also rumored to be on the closure > list. If any of the other list members who have ties to St. John's > would want to write him as well, the address is : > > His Excellency The Most Reverend Joseph F. Naumann, D.D. > Archbishop of Kansas City in Kansas > 12615 Parallel Parkway Kansas City, KS 66109 > Phone (913) 721-1570 > Fax (913) 721-1577 > email: archkck@archkck. org > > > > > "Civilization is the progress toward a society of privacy. The savage's > whole existence is public, ruled by the laws of his tribe. Civilization is the > process of setting man free from men." Ayn Rand 1905-1982 > > > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > CROATIA-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the > body of the message ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to CROATIA-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message "Civilization is the progress toward a society of privacy. The savage's whole existence is public, ruled by the laws of his tribe. Civilization is the process of setting man free from men." Ayn Rand 1905-1982
While it may be difficult and costly to preserve the buildings, I would suggest to try and collect the papers, and pictures pertaining to the history of Croatian church in America.. The immigrants' families have many such priceless documents. Searching through Google I found that the project exists at the Minnesota University: Home >For Educators &Students >Fellowship Opportunities : Louis P. Novak The Louis P. Novak Fellowship Croatian American Studies Croatian American Studies Fund : IHRC : University of Minnesota dr Tatjana Former In a message dated 1/22/2007 5:52:26 PM Eastern Standard Time, rjerin26@yahoo.com writes: > > I recieved this notice from one of the posters to a genealogy message board. > > This trend is alarming, while we can all understand the reduced church > attendence and parohicial school enrollment (at least in some areas), I believe > that some Bishops and Diocese Offices do not respect the contributions made > by the European ethinic communities to the building of the Roman Catholic > faith in America. Recently the olderst Roman Catholic Croatian church in > America, St Nicholas in Pittsburgh PA, closed. What a shame that we did not all > raise our voices (and maybe also money!) to save such an important > American-Croatian institution. How many more will close before the community acts in a > positive manner to help? > > ********* > > St. John The Baptist Grade School in Kansas > City, Kansas is scheduled to be closed. It will be consolidated with > two other grade schools, and the students will be moved to the grade > school which is based at the archdiocese catherdral. > > St. John's is important in the history of Croatians in the United States. It > was the first Croatian grade school, established and opened > in 1909, under the direction of Msgr. Martin Krmpotic, shortly after the > church was constructed and dedicated in 1904. The history of the parish > is outlined in the book The Croatian Immigrants in America by George > Prpic, a professor at John Carroll University in Cleveland. The parish > complex was also the sight of the first Croatian orphanage in this > country, founded and run by the same sisters who staffed the school. > The orphanage has long closed, and the building is the site of the > Strawberry Hill Museum. > > I have written the archbishop to make him aware of the significance of > the school and the church, which is also rumored to be on the closure > list. If any of the other list members who have ties to St. John's > would want to write him as well, the address is : > > His Excellency The Most Reverend Joseph F. Naumann, D.D. > Archbishop of Kansas City in Kansas > 12615 Parallel Parkway Kansas City, KS 66109 > Phone (913) 721-1570 > Fax (913) 721-1577 > email: archkck@archkck. org <mailto:archkck@archkck. org> > <mailto:archkck@archkck. org> > > > > "Civilization is the progress toward a society of privacy. The savage's > whole existence is public, ruled by the laws of his tribe. Civilization is the > process of setting man free from men." Ayn Rand 1905-1982 > > > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > CROATIA-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the > body of the message
There are two things I will not argue about, 1 Religion and 2 Politics. But they both have a common fault, Spending millions in Washington and short funding and closing Schools. Nick ----- Original Message ----- From: "Don Marinkovich" <djedo@2z.net> To: <croatia@rootsweb.com> Sent: Thursday, January 25, 2007 9:21 AM Subject: Re: [CROATIA] Another Croatian Roman Catholic institution to close:p lace blame where should be please Oh that was beautiful. Donald Marinkovich ----- Original Message ----- From: <davem9759@juno.com> To: <croatia@rootsweb.com> Sent: Thursday, January 25, 2007 1:20 AM Subject: Re: [CROATIA] Another Croatian Roman Catholic institution to close: p lace blame where should be please > Well, this has been interesting conversation, so let me put in my 2 cents. > There was a HUGE drop of support for the church after the so-called sex > scandals came to light. Some of these cases were more than questionable, > but to avoid more bad publicity, and scandal the church paid off on a > number of cases, and offered free counseling to some of the suffering > souls. > Some of the problems we are seeing today is a result of our own > irreverence. We've become a society that wanted to be able to go to > church Sunday morning in blue jeans and tank tops. Surely the parents > that allowed their children to do so, or even argued against having to > dress up helped to foster the socio-trend which seems to have taken the > importance and value of attending church out of the paradigm. That > paradigm is that we once viewed church as significant and crucial to > family and society as we attempted to become a civilized culture. Church > was a place where we gave God his glory and received our forgiveness and > the sacrament of life - the Eucharist. With the degradation of value in > attending church because of the loss of it's significance in our lives for > personal and spiritual growth other activities became more important to us > in forming social bonds - i.e soccer games, and football games. As the > soccer mom culture grew, and the children's activities became ! > more critical to their growth and development, church became a less > necessary activity. Parent's tend to believe that their child is the star > of the game, we want our children to be successful, and somehow sports > became more important that having the values that we receive by attending > church. Soccer is todays church, and unfortunately - very few good values > other than sportsmanship are taught. Depending on the coach - the new > role model replacing the parish priest; some sportsmanship may even be > sacrificed for the sake of the game. What lesson does that teach? > Next is the church paradigm which causes people to move out of parish or > stop attending. The value placed on new members. I get my envelopes all > the time. I gave my time prolife, RCIA, ministry formation, etc.; and > when the calling came (I think it was always there) at 40 to request to > become a deacon - the old farts group that controls the Diaconate (guys in > their late 50's and 60's) said I was too young. - I wonder what Jeremiah > would have said to that. When new members join the church they are > quickly grabbed for as many groups as they can handle and soon become > burned out, and uninterested - even avoiding church to prevent being asked > for more time. I've been a lifelong Catholic at the same parish - I see > it all the time. > So how do you breathe new life into a parish that is suffering - A parish > on our west side of town was failing to meet it's bills, and attendance. > Someone came up with a brilliant idea that breathed life into it.. welcome > the minorities. First they set up Spanish language masses, and brought in > people from the other parishes to help with their needs - i.e volunteers > to help distribute clothing donations, etc. Some churches found Asian > speaking members to assist in their community. The problem was that the > church didn't reflect the community and those people didn't attend. Once > that was addressed attendance improved. My parish is in the middle of an > affluent white neighborhood, and a poor mostly minority community. The > affluent families only had one or two children ( I blame that on liberal > idealogy - birth control and abortion), while the minority families have > at least 2 -3 children. These families are working people who tend to > get looks when they come into the ch! > apel. While the parish says it is welcoming - the community of > parishioners shows otherwise. I think Christ would be ashamed! > We need to get the churches to become truly welcoming, and truly > supportive of the people who live in the community that should be able to > attend that parish. That of itself will improve things. Many latins, > asians and other groups are being welcomed into the "evangelical" or mega > rock and roll churches. We haven't as Catholics addressed that. When was > the last time you saw a "Catholic Church" add on the tv or radio. > To end this on the main point - to ask to preserve a church because it has > been historically part of a culture probably won't do anything to help the > church's bottom line and likely will result in the closure unless it can > be preserved as a shrine or basillica. The best bet is to speak of the > church's early history of helping a community of immigrants (Croatians, > etc.) and redirecting that focus to the new immigrants or minoritys in > order to improve attendance. > I find it amazing that schools are closing because of lack of support, in > this area at least only one school closed years ago because of that; now > it is being rehabilitated. Their is a large population of suburbians who > want their children in the safer "private" parochial schools, maybe from a > sense of elitism or esteem - still if it appeals to them why not address > it as a marketing tool. > > Good luck in the rest. I hope that the Croatian heritage can be > preserved. > > Dave > > > > > > > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > CROATIA-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the > quotes in the subject and the body of the message > ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to CROATIA-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message
Oh that was beautiful. Donald Marinkovich ----- Original Message ----- From: <davem9759@juno.com> To: <croatia@rootsweb.com> Sent: Thursday, January 25, 2007 1:20 AM Subject: Re: [CROATIA] Another Croatian Roman Catholic institution to close: p lace blame where should be please > Well, this has been interesting conversation, so let me put in my 2 cents. > There was a HUGE drop of support for the church after the so-called sex > scandals came to light. Some of these cases were more than questionable, > but to avoid more bad publicity, and scandal the church paid off on a > number of cases, and offered free counseling to some of the suffering > souls. > Some of the problems we are seeing today is a result of our own > irreverence. We've become a society that wanted to be able to go to > church Sunday morning in blue jeans and tank tops. Surely the parents > that allowed their children to do so, or even argued against having to > dress up helped to foster the socio-trend which seems to have taken the > importance and value of attending church out of the paradigm. That > paradigm is that we once viewed church as significant and crucial to > family and society as we attempted to become a civilized culture. Church > was a place where we gave God his glory and received our forgiveness and > the sacrament of life - the Eucharist. With the degradation of value in > attending church because of the loss of it's significance in our lives for > personal and spiritual growth other activities became more important to us > in forming social bonds - i.e soccer games, and football games. As the > soccer mom culture grew, and the children's activities became ! > more critical to their growth and development, church became a less > necessary activity. Parent's tend to believe that their child is the star > of the game, we want our children to be successful, and somehow sports > became more important that having the values that we receive by attending > church. Soccer is todays church, and unfortunately - very few good values > other than sportsmanship are taught. Depending on the coach - the new > role model replacing the parish priest; some sportsmanship may even be > sacrificed for the sake of the game. What lesson does that teach? > Next is the church paradigm which causes people to move out of parish or > stop attending. The value placed on new members. I get my envelopes all > the time. I gave my time prolife, RCIA, ministry formation, etc.; and > when the calling came (I think it was always there) at 40 to request to > become a deacon - the old farts group that controls the Diaconate (guys in > their late 50's and 60's) said I was too young. - I wonder what Jeremiah > would have said to that. When new members join the church they are > quickly grabbed for as many groups as they can handle and soon become > burned out, and uninterested - even avoiding church to prevent being asked > for more time. I've been a lifelong Catholic at the same parish - I see > it all the time. > So how do you breathe new life into a parish that is suffering - A parish > on our west side of town was failing to meet it's bills, and attendance. > Someone came up with a brilliant idea that breathed life into it.. welcome > the minorities. First they set up Spanish language masses, and brought in > people from the other parishes to help with their needs - i.e volunteers > to help distribute clothing donations, etc. Some churches found Asian > speaking members to assist in their community. The problem was that the > church didn't reflect the community and those people didn't attend. Once > that was addressed attendance improved. My parish is in the middle of an > affluent white neighborhood, and a poor mostly minority community. The > affluent families only had one or two children ( I blame that on liberal > idealogy - birth control and abortion), while the minority families have > at least 2 -3 children. These families are working people who tend to > get looks when they come into the ch! > apel. While the parish says it is welcoming - the community of > parishioners shows otherwise. I think Christ would be ashamed! > We need to get the churches to become truly welcoming, and truly > supportive of the people who live in the community that should be able to > attend that parish. That of itself will improve things. Many latins, > asians and other groups are being welcomed into the "evangelical" or mega > rock and roll churches. We haven't as Catholics addressed that. When was > the last time you saw a "Catholic Church" add on the tv or radio. > To end this on the main point - to ask to preserve a church because it has > been historically part of a culture probably won't do anything to help the > church's bottom line and likely will result in the closure unless it can > be preserved as a shrine or basillica. The best bet is to speak of the > church's early history of helping a community of immigrants (Croatians, > etc.) and redirecting that focus to the new immigrants or minoritys in > order to improve attendance. > I find it amazing that schools are closing because of lack of support, in > this area at least only one school closed years ago because of that; now > it is being rehabilitated. Their is a large population of suburbians who > want their children in the safer "private" parochial schools, maybe from a > sense of elitism or esteem - still if it appeals to them why not address > it as a marketing tool. > > Good luck in the rest. I hope that the Croatian heritage can be > preserved. > > Dave > > > > > > > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > CROATIA-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the > quotes in the subject and the body of the message >
Well, this has been interesting conversation, so let me put in my 2 cents. There was a HUGE drop of support for the church after the so-called sex scandals came to light. Some of these cases were more than questionable, but to avoid more bad publicity, and scandal the church paid off on a number of cases, and offered free counseling to some of the suffering souls. Some of the problems we are seeing today is a result of our own irreverence. We've become a society that wanted to be able to go to church Sunday morning in blue jeans and tank tops. Surely the parents that allowed their children to do so, or even argued against having to dress up helped to foster the socio-trend which seems to have taken the importance and value of attending church out of the paradigm. That paradigm is that we once viewed church as significant and crucial to family and society as we attempted to become a civilized culture. Church was a place where we gave God his glory and received our forgiveness and the sacrament of life - the Eucharist. With the degradation of value in attending church because of the loss of it's significance in our lives for personal and spiritual growth other activities became more important to us in forming social bonds - i.e soccer games, and football games. As the soccer mom culture grew, and the children's activities became more critical to their growth and development, church became a less necessary activity. Parent's tend to believe that their child is the star of the game, we want our children to be successful, and somehow sports became more important that having the values that we receive by attending church. Soccer is todays church, and unfortunately - very few good values other than sportsmanship are taught. Depending on the coach - the new role model replacing the parish priest; some sportsmanship may even be sacrificed for the sake of the game. What lesson does that teach? Next is the church paradigm which causes people to move out of parish or stop attending. The value placed on new members. I get my envelopes all the time. I gave my time prolife, RCIA, ministry formation, etc.; and when the calling came (I think it was always there) at 40 to request to become a deacon - the old farts group that controls the Diaconate (guys in their late 50's and 60's) said I was too young. - I wonder what Jeremiah would have said to that. When new members join the church they are quickly grabbed for as many groups as they can handle and soon become burned out, and uninterested - even avoiding church to prevent being asked for more time. I've been a lifelong Catholic at the same parish - I see it all the time. So how do you breathe new life into a parish that is suffering - A parish on our west side of town was failing to meet it's bills, and attendance. Someone came up with a brilliant idea that breathed life into it.. welcome the minorities. First they set up Spanish language masses, and brought in people from the other parishes to help with their needs - i.e volunteers to help distribute clothing donations, etc. Some churches found Asian speaking members to assist in their community. The problem was that the church didn't reflect the community and those people didn't attend. Once that was addressed attendance improved. My parish is in the middle of an affluent white neighborhood, and a poor mostly minority community. The affluent families only had one or two children ( I blame that on liberal idealogy - birth control and abortion), while the minority families have at least 2 -3 children. These families are working people who tend to get looks when they come into the chapel. While the parish says it is welcoming - the community of parishioners shows otherwise. I think Christ would be ashamed! We need to get the churches to become truly welcoming, and truly supportive of the people who live in the community that should be able to attend that parish. That of itself will improve things. Many latins, asians and other groups are being welcomed into the "evangelical" or mega rock and roll churches. We haven't as Catholics addressed that. When was the last time you saw a "Catholic Church" add on the tv or radio. To end this on the main point - to ask to preserve a church because it has been historically part of a culture probably won't do anything to help the church's bottom line and likely will result in the closure unless it can be preserved as a shrine or basillica. The best bet is to speak of the church's early history of helping a community of immigrants (Croatians, etc.) and redirecting that focus to the new immigrants or minoritys in order to improve attendance. I find it amazing that schools are closing because of lack of support, in this area at least only one school closed years ago because of that; now it is being rehabilitated. Their is a large population of suburbians who want their children in the safer "private" parochial schools, maybe from a sense of elitism or esteem - still if it appeals to them why not address it as a marketing tool. Good luck in the rest. I hope that the Croatian heritage can be preserved. Dave
You know that is a great point! Mormons and Methodists DO do a lot of activism in trying to keep, restore and maintain historical buildings especially Churches. It started at the top and trickles downward to the "members". Catholics should do the same. They will argue that "it's only a building" but it's more than that. These old buildings are the "rocks" of our Faith and the "reminders" of why we believe. Great point Sheri! :) I still blame my own generation. If we could withhold on buying "morning bakery" and "starbucks coffee" each day ($5/day) we'd each raise about $1680 a year! That's roughly (depending on how expensive your state is) $125/chair = 13 chairs for the church; OR $250/window = 6 windows (new) to replace the old etc etc We, the youth, expect others to take care of it all. We move away, not send monies and then complain our heads off when programs stop, when Churches close, buildings close, etc. Shame... On Jan 23, 2007, at 11:07 AM, Sheri Dye wrote: Dear Mr. Jerin: I could help but notice this and a swelling thought came into my mind. I am not Catholic but am LDS (Mormon), however I will explain the revelence of these two. I live in Salt Lake City and watch my church help other churchs with funding to help preserve historical buildings, feed others, etc. My church has a lot of historical sites all over the country and appreciate the preservation in history. So I am also including the name, address of the local LDS Stakes/Churchs in that area. I got this off _lds.org_.You can write to the Stake Presidents there or call them Sundays, Tuesday evenings or Wednesday evenings. I am sure they will be able to help you. Let me know if I can be of any assistance. I have helped in my community to raise awareness and funds for many religious and secular events.My sister is married to TEZAK's who immigrated from Yugoslovia to Ellis Island.They are Catholic. Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints Lenexa Kansas Stake 7845 Allman Road Lenexa, Kansas 66217 Phone: (913) 962-5635 (Office) (913) 962-5623 (Hall) Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints Olathe Kansas Stake 15915 W. 143rd Street Olathe, KS 66062 Phone: (913) 764-4410 (Office) (913) 764-6090 (Hall phone) Sincerely, Sheri Dye Salt Lake City, Utah USA
Just a building.... A few years ago I took a group from Pittsburgh to see St Paul's in Cleveland... as Father Mirko took the group on a tour of the church, pointing out the old photos in the church hall and the Croatian Holy People displayed on the church windows and the Joe Turkaly sculpures of St Paul, the baptism of the Croatians and St Leopold Mandic... he passed and commented about the 1960ish pews and altar and said that removing the old Victorian pews and altar was like tearing the heart out of the old church and forgetting those who built the church.... Historian Ante Radic (brother of Stejpan) stated something to the effect "When we explore and preserve our culture we call to mind and honor our ancestors" THAT is what this is all about! Robert Natalie Prodan <prodan@alltel.net> wrote: You know that is a great point! Mormons and Methodists DO do a lot of activism in trying to keep, restore and maintain historical buildings especially Churches. It started at the top and trickles downward to the "members". Catholics should do the same. They will argue that "it's only a building" but it's more than that. These old buildings are the "rocks" of our Faith and the "reminders" of why we believe. Great point Sheri! :) I still blame my own generation. If we could withhold on buying "morning bakery" and "starbucks coffee" each day ($5/day) we'd each raise about $1680 a year! That's roughly (depending on how expensive your state is) $125/chair = 13 chairs for the church; OR $250/window = 6 windows (new) to replace the old etc etc We, the youth, expect others to take care of it all. We move away, not send monies and then complain our heads off when programs stop, when Churches close, buildings close, etc. Shame... On Jan 23, 2007, at 11:07 AM, Sheri Dye wrote: Dear Mr. Jerin: I could help but notice this and a swelling thought came into my mind. I am not Catholic but am LDS (Mormon), however I will explain the revelence of these two. I live in Salt Lake City and watch my church help other churchs with funding to help preserve historical buildings, feed others, etc. My church has a lot of historical sites all over the country and appreciate the preservation in history. So I am also including the name, address of the local LDS Stakes/Churchs in that area. I got this off _lds.org_.You can write to the Stake Presidents there or call them Sundays, Tuesday evenings or Wednesday evenings. I am sure they will be able to help you. Let me know if I can be of any assistance. I have helped in my community to raise awareness and funds for many religious and secular events.My sister is married to TEZAK's who immigrated from Yugoslovia to Ellis Island.They are Catholic. Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints Lenexa Kansas Stake 7845 Allman Road Lenexa, Kansas 66217 Phone: (913) 962-5635 (Office) (913) 962-5623 (Hall) Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints Olathe Kansas Stake 15915 W. 143rd Street Olathe, KS 66062 Phone: (913) 764-4410 (Office) (913) 764-6090 (Hall phone) Sincerely, Sheri Dye Salt Lake City, Utah USA ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to CROATIA-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message "Civilization is the progress toward a society of privacy. The savage's whole existence is public, ruled by the laws of his tribe. Civilization is the process of setting man free from men." Ayn Rand 1905-1982
Robert On the subject of St Nicholas in Pittsburgh do you know what ever happen to all the beautiful statues and such at the church Donna
Donna, I have not followed the fate of St Nicholas since shortly after Elsie Juratovich passed away... but I was pleasantly surprised to read the article found at the link below http://barnestormin.blogspot.com/2006/07/10-million-project-to-renovate-st.html You can find lovely photos of the church at http://www.stnicholasns.org/ Robert TACODMK@aol.com wrote: Robert On the subject of St Nicholas in Pittsburgh do you know what ever happen to all the beautiful statues and such at the church Donna ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to CROATIA-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message "Civilization is the progress toward a society of privacy. The savage's whole existence is public, ruled by the laws of his tribe. Civilization is the process of setting man free from men." Ayn Rand 1905-1982
Natalie, No offense taken, it is good to have discourse about this issue. You are absolutely correct about us doing more.... one idea that someone suggested was that each Croatian community or parish "buy" a part of these endangered historic structures IE doors, windows, pews, etc.. in that way smaller goals are set which hopefully will lead to the entire goal being met. Robert Natalie Prodan <prodan@alltel.net> wrote: I just wanted to say to the list. My post was NOT meant to disparage, insult, nor embarras anyone. And most certainly it was not directed to Robert as an attack. Absolutely not. And so if it was taken any other way I publicly appologize and want to say it was not send in disrespect. It was just to take part in conversation in this topic that is close to my heart. It saddens me that so much "culture" is being lost and that my own generation as a whole is not doing anything about it (so it seems) and this is MY own opinion and observation. We move away, we forget, and the only time we decide to contribute or help out is when something dies or is removed or closes. That was my point. My generation could and can DO more but time and again we choose not to and we keep relying on the more "seasoned" generations. Thank you all for allowing me to par take in this very interesting discussion! On Jan 23, 2007, at 12:05 PM, tony zugay wrote: I can echo Robert's concern and am saddened to hear this news. In the early 90's the Bishop of the Diocese of Harrisburg, PA decided to combine five Catholic parishes in Steelton PA into one parish. The new parish was named Prince of Peace and took over St Mary's Roman Catholic Croatian Church. The Franciscan fathers were sent off and replaced by diocesan priests. There was a loud and long outcry from the Croatian community as well as the Slovenian, Italian and German parishes in Steelton that even made national news but in the end the bishop and the business side of the church prevailed. I have not lived there for 50+ years but keep up with the news. I understand that occasionally a Croatian priest is allowed to come back and offer a mass in the Croatian language so that some of the new recent immigrants and old timers get a taste of what the parish was like. On Jan 22, 2007, at 2:51 PM, Robert Jerin wrote: > I recieved this notice from one of the posters to a genealogy message > board. > > This trend is alarming, while we can all understand the reduced > church attendence and parohicial school enrollment (at least in some > areas), I believe that some Bishops and Diocese Offices do not respect > the contributions made by the European ethinic communities to the > building of the Roman Catholic faith in America. Recently the olderst > Roman Catholic Croatian church in America, St Nicholas in Pittsburgh > PA, closed. What a shame that we did not all raise our voices (and > maybe also money!) to save such an important American-Croatian > institution. How many more will close before the community acts in a > positive manner to help? > > ********* > > St. John The Baptist Grade School in Kansas > City, Kansas is scheduled to be closed. It will be consolidated with > two other grade schools, and the students will be moved to the grade > school which is based at the archdiocese catherdral. > > St. John's is important in the history of Croatians in the United > States. It was the first Croatian grade school, established and opened > in 1909, under the direction of Msgr. Martin Krmpotic, shortly after > the > church was constructed and dedicated in 1904. The history of the > parish > is outlined in the book The Croatian Immigrants in America by George > Prpic, a professor at John Carroll University in Cleveland. The parish > complex was also the sight of the first Croatian orphanage in this > country, founded and run by the same sisters who staffed the school. > The orphanage has long closed, and the building is the site of the > Strawberry Hill Museum. > > I have written the archbishop to make him aware of the significance of > the school and the church, which is also rumored to be on the closure > list. If any of the other list members who have ties to St. John's > would want to write him as well, the address is : > > His Excellency The Most Reverend Joseph F. Naumann, D.D. > Archbishop of Kansas City in Kansas > 12615 Parallel Parkway Kansas City, KS 66109 > Phone (913) 721-1570 > Fax (913) 721-1577 > email: archkck@archkck. org > ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to CROATIA-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message "Civilization is the progress toward a society of privacy. The savage's whole existence is public, ruled by the laws of his tribe. Civilization is the process of setting man free from men." Ayn Rand 1905-1982
I just wanted to say to the list. My post was NOT meant to disparage, insult, nor embarras anyone. And most certainly it was not directed to Robert as an attack. Absolutely not. And so if it was taken any other way I publicly appologize and want to say it was not send in disrespect. It was just to take part in conversation in this topic that is close to my heart. It saddens me that so much "culture" is being lost and that my own generation as a whole is not doing anything about it (so it seems) and this is MY own opinion and observation. We move away, we forget, and the only time we decide to contribute or help out is when something dies or is removed or closes. That was my point. My generation could and can DO more but time and again we choose not to and we keep relying on the more "seasoned" generations. Thank you all for allowing me to par take in this very interesting discussion! On Jan 23, 2007, at 12:05 PM, tony zugay wrote: I can echo Robert's concern and am saddened to hear this news. In the early 90's the Bishop of the Diocese of Harrisburg, PA decided to combine five Catholic parishes in Steelton PA into one parish. The new parish was named Prince of Peace and took over St Mary's Roman Catholic Croatian Church. The Franciscan fathers were sent off and replaced by diocesan priests. There was a loud and long outcry from the Croatian community as well as the Slovenian, Italian and German parishes in Steelton that even made national news but in the end the bishop and the business side of the church prevailed. I have not lived there for 50+ years but keep up with the news. I understand that occasionally a Croatian priest is allowed to come back and offer a mass in the Croatian language so that some of the new recent immigrants and old timers get a taste of what the parish was like. On Jan 22, 2007, at 2:51 PM, Robert Jerin wrote: > I recieved this notice from one of the posters to a genealogy message > board. > > This trend is alarming, while we can all understand the reduced > church attendence and parohicial school enrollment (at least in some > areas), I believe that some Bishops and Diocese Offices do not respect > the contributions made by the European ethinic communities to the > building of the Roman Catholic faith in America. Recently the olderst > Roman Catholic Croatian church in America, St Nicholas in Pittsburgh > PA, closed. What a shame that we did not all raise our voices (and > maybe also money!) to save such an important American-Croatian > institution. How many more will close before the community acts in a > positive manner to help? > > ********* > > St. John The Baptist Grade School in Kansas > City, Kansas is scheduled to be closed. It will be consolidated with > two other grade schools, and the students will be moved to the grade > school which is based at the archdiocese catherdral. > > St. John's is important in the history of Croatians in the United > States. It was the first Croatian grade school, established and opened > in 1909, under the direction of Msgr. Martin Krmpotic, shortly after > the > church was constructed and dedicated in 1904. The history of the > parish > is outlined in the book The Croatian Immigrants in America by George > Prpic, a professor at John Carroll University in Cleveland. The parish > complex was also the sight of the first Croatian orphanage in this > country, founded and run by the same sisters who staffed the school. > The orphanage has long closed, and the building is the site of the > Strawberry Hill Museum. > > I have written the archbishop to make him aware of the significance of > the school and the church, which is also rumored to be on the closure > list. If any of the other list members who have ties to St. John's > would want to write him as well, the address is : > > His Excellency The Most Reverend Joseph F. Naumann, D.D. > Archbishop of Kansas City in Kansas > 12615 Parallel Parkway Kansas City, KS 66109 > Phone (913) 721-1570 > Fax (913) 721-1577 > email: archkck@archkck. org <mailto:archkck@archkck. org> > <mailto:archkck@archkck. org>