This is a website that we have found very interesting and useful. The others using this site and are very helpful. There is also one for Slovenia at slovenia@rootsweb.com. I suggest you sign up for both. -----Original Message----- From: croatia-bounces@rootsweb.com [mailto:croatia-bounces@rootsweb.com] On Behalf Of William F Kane Sent: Tuesday, February 20, 2007 10:15 PM To: croatia@rootsweb.com Subject: Re: [CROATIA] CROATIA Digest, Vol 2, Issue 28 Actually the Martha Washington going to Italian ownership after WWI makes perfect sense. Austria lost the war and Trieste was given to Italy. Recruiters played a very important part in immigration from the beginning of the Industrial Revolution in America. In the 1850's and 60's the factories in New England heavily recruted French Canadian workers to the shoe factories and textile mills that were developing all over the area. Actually the way Robert described it is one way it happened. They got one person to come and then they got them to tell their friends there were jobs here. They even sent recruiters to Canada to go from farm to farm to sign people up to migrate. The new migrants moved in with their fellow French Canadians until they could afford places of their own. Many times these were two room tenemants with overcrowding and unsanitary water and sewerage conditions. The migrants tended to stay together into little ghetto areas creating in New England what were called "Little Canada's." Often the larger factories supplied the housing, the company store, and many times getting back all that they paid them through rents, food and credit that had to be paid back when pay day came around and was taken out of their pay. Our Croatian immigrants were often recruited but it was largely by the first ones to come over who wrote to them to tell them there were jobs here and they could get them work. Some time the claims were overstated because they didn't want to admit that they weren't doing that well in the new country. In Kenosha it was the Simmons mattress factory that employed most of the Croatians as well as other migrants. (quite a few Italians came as well). The same pattern existed. The man would come first and he would live with other male migrants in a rooming house or else a Croatian family that had established there would rent rooms out to a couple of single or married men that had come without their families. Once established the man would send for his wife or family and they would repeat the process, buying or renting a house and taking in new migrant tenants. I don't know of company recruiters going to Europe but it is certainly possible and most likely did happen. My father in law told us of his trip from Ellis Island across to Manhatten and then their trip by horse drawn trolley to the railroad station to take the train to Chicago. He and his brother kept looking fot the streets paved in gold that the letters home had talked about and were dissapointed in not seeing any. He was 12 at the time. Bill Kane ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to CROATIA-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message

Just dawned on me that the immigrant needed to be at the port of departure several days in advance, so add that to the journey. And the sea journey could take as little as 10 days. Also if they traveled post WW I then the processing was done at an US Embassy or US Consulate in the immigrants home country, not at Ellis Island. After 1924 Ellis Island was used only as a dentention center. Robert Robert Jerin <rjerin26@yahoo.com> wrote: Hi Tony, Hope all is well with you and G,,,,,,a. That 25 day journey is one reason the other, seemly longer routes overland and sea, were used. They took approximately 2 weeks, I don't believe that a long sea journey in steerage, in those days was very pleasant. Robert tony zugay wrote: Bill. My father came through Trieste in 1909 and looking at the ship manifest it followed your Patmos, Naples, Algers route. The voyage in 1909 took 25 days. Tony On Feb 20, 2007, at 4:29 PM, wfkane@juno.com wrote: > Let me see if I can clear up some of the mystery of travel from > Croatia and other parts of Europe to the US and particularly to Ellis > Island. In Croatia the steamship companies were selling all inclusive > tickets from the villages where the emigrants lived all the way to the > states maybe even to their final destination in the States. The ticket > included passage by train from the nearest r.r. station to the port of > disembarcation. There were many such ports that were used. Le Havre > was one of the largest but also Hamburg, Rotterdam, and others. The > shipping companys also put up the passengers in boarding houses and > cheap hotels at the port of departure for a few days before the ships > left the port as they usually arrived before the ship was ready to > depart. Trieste was also used, Trieste was under the control of the > Austrian Hungarian Empire at the time and was a minor port although > several Autrian shipping companies existed and sent hundreds of > immigrants to the New World. M! > y wife's grandfather and grandmother and her father and uncle all > came to Ellis Island through the port of Trieste. Her father told us > of his travels from his village by wagon to the nearest r.r.station > and then the train to Zagreb where they changed trains to Trieste. > When they arrived there they were put up in a boarding house were all > their meals were furnished for 4 days until they were able to board > the ship. The ship stopped in Patnos Greece where it loaded more > passengers and also took on some cargo including olives for the US > market. Next it was Naples where it loaded lemons, and then on to > Algiers where it took on enough coal for it boilers to make the > journey across the ocean to N.Y. When they arrived at Ellis Island > they had tickets by train to Chigago where they changed to a local > train to get them to Kenosha WI their final destination. They arrived > in New York two weeks before the start of W.W.I. Their ship, the > Martha Washington, was impouded and not allowed! > to sail back to Trieste. It was later put into service as a troop shi > p to get US troops to Europe. Now your grandmother arrived at Ellis > Island 2 days after W.W.I began so it was possible for her to cross > Europe by train and disembark from LeHarve with no problem and be one > of the last persons to make it to the US. After the war started > immigration came to a near standstill. > My wife's other grandfather went with several other men from his > village by rail to Rotterdam where they boarded the ship Noordam for > the trip to N.Y. and then on to Pittsburg. The steamship company sold > all five of them tickets from Croatia to the U.S. by rail and ship. > This was in 1905. > > Bill Kane > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > CROATIA-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the > quotes in the subject and the body of the message > ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to CROATIA-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message "Civilization is the progress toward a society of privacy. The savage's whole existence is public, ruled by the laws of his tribe. Civilization is the process of setting man free from men." Ayn Rand 1905-1982 ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to CROATIA-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message "Civilization is the progress toward a society of privacy. The savage's whole existence is public, ruled by the laws of his tribe. Civilization is the process of setting man free from men." Ayn Rand 1905-1982

Hi Tony, Hope all is well with you and G,,,,,,a. That 25 day journey is one reason the other, seemly longer routes overland and sea, were used. They took approximately 2 weeks, I don't believe that a long sea journey in steerage, in those days was very pleasant. Robert tony zugay <tozug@satx.rr.com> wrote: Bill. My father came through Trieste in 1909 and looking at the ship manifest it followed your Patmos, Naples, Algers route. The voyage in 1909 took 25 days. Tony On Feb 20, 2007, at 4:29 PM, wfkane@juno.com wrote: > Let me see if I can clear up some of the mystery of travel from > Croatia and other parts of Europe to the US and particularly to Ellis > Island. In Croatia the steamship companies were selling all inclusive > tickets from the villages where the emigrants lived all the way to the > states maybe even to their final destination in the States. The ticket > included passage by train from the nearest r.r. station to the port of > disembarcation. There were many such ports that were used. Le Havre > was one of the largest but also Hamburg, Rotterdam, and others. The > shipping companys also put up the passengers in boarding houses and > cheap hotels at the port of departure for a few days before the ships > left the port as they usually arrived before the ship was ready to > depart. Trieste was also used, Trieste was under the control of the > Austrian Hungarian Empire at the time and was a minor port although > several Autrian shipping companies existed and sent hundreds of > immigrants to the New World. M! > y wife's grandfather and grandmother and her father and uncle all > came to Ellis Island through the port of Trieste. Her father told us > of his travels from his village by wagon to the nearest r.r.station > and then the train to Zagreb where they changed trains to Trieste. > When they arrived there they were put up in a boarding house were all > their meals were furnished for 4 days until they were able to board > the ship. The ship stopped in Patnos Greece where it loaded more > passengers and also took on some cargo including olives for the US > market. Next it was Naples where it loaded lemons, and then on to > Algiers where it took on enough coal for it boilers to make the > journey across the ocean to N.Y. When they arrived at Ellis Island > they had tickets by train to Chigago where they changed to a local > train to get them to Kenosha WI their final destination. They arrived > in New York two weeks before the start of W.W.I. Their ship, the > Martha Washington, was impouded and not allowed! > to sail back to Trieste. It was later put into service as a troop shi > p to get US troops to Europe. Now your grandmother arrived at Ellis > Island 2 days after W.W.I began so it was possible for her to cross > Europe by train and disembark from LeHarve with no problem and be one > of the last persons to make it to the US. After the war started > immigration came to a near standstill. > My wife's other grandfather went with several other men from his > village by rail to Rotterdam where they boarded the ship Noordam for > the trip to N.Y. and then on to Pittsburg. The steamship company sold > all five of them tickets from Croatia to the U.S. by rail and ship. > This was in 1905. > > Bill Kane > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > CROATIA-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the > quotes in the subject and the body of the message > ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to CROATIA-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message "Civilization is the progress toward a society of privacy. The savage's whole existence is public, ruled by the laws of his tribe. Civilization is the process of setting man free from men." Ayn Rand 1905-1982

Let me see if I can clear up some of the mystery of travel from Croatia and other parts of Europe to the US and particularly to Ellis Island. In Croatia the steamship companies were selling all inclusive tickets from the villages where the emigrants lived all the way to the states maybe even to their final destination in the States. The ticket included passage by train from the nearest r.r. station to the port of disembarcation. There were many such ports that were used. Le Havre was one of the largest but also Hamburg, Rotterdam, and others. The shipping companys also put up the passengers in boarding houses and cheap hotels at the port of departure for a few days before the ships left the port as they usually arrived before the ship was ready to depart. Trieste was also used, Trieste was under the control of the Austrian Hungarian Empire at the time and was a minor port although several Autrian shipping companies existed and sent hundreds of immigrants to the New World. My wife's grandfather and grandmother and her father and uncle all came to Ellis Island through the port of Trieste. Her father told us of his travels from his village by wagon to the nearest r.r.station and then the train to Zagreb where they changed trains to Trieste. When they arrived there they were put up in a boarding house were all their meals were furnished for 4 days until they were able to board the ship. The ship stopped in Patnos Greece where it loaded more passengers and also took on some cargo including olives for the US market. Next it was Naples where it loaded lemons, and then on to Algiers where it took on enough coal for it boilers to make the journey across the ocean to N.Y. When they arrived at Ellis Island they had tickets by train to Chigago where they changed to a local train to get them to Kenosha WI their final destination. They arrived in New York two weeks before the start of W.W.I. Their ship, the Martha Washington, was impouded and not allowed to sail back to Trieste. It was later put into service as a troop ship to get US troops to Europe. Now your grandmother arrived at Ellis Island 2 days after W.W.I began so it was possible for her to cross Europe by train and disembark from LeHarve with no problem and be one of the last persons to make it to the US. After the war started immigration came to a near standstill. My wife's other grandfather went with several other men from his village by rail to Rotterdam where they boarded the ship Noordam for the trip to N.Y. and then on to Pittsburg. The steamship company sold all five of them tickets from Croatia to the U.S. by rail and ship. This was in 1905. Bill Kane

Bill. My father came through Trieste in 1909 and looking at the ship manifest it followed your Patmos, Naples, Algers route. The voyage in 1909 took 25 days. Tony On Feb 20, 2007, at 4:29 PM, wfkane@juno.com wrote: > Let me see if I can clear up some of the mystery of travel from > Croatia and other parts of Europe to the US and particularly to Ellis > Island. In Croatia the steamship companies were selling all inclusive > tickets from the villages where the emigrants lived all the way to the > states maybe even to their final destination in the States. The ticket > included passage by train from the nearest r.r. station to the port of > disembarcation. There were many such ports that were used. Le Havre > was one of the largest but also Hamburg, Rotterdam, and others. The > shipping companys also put up the passengers in boarding houses and > cheap hotels at the port of departure for a few days before the ships > left the port as they usually arrived before the ship was ready to > depart. Trieste was also used, Trieste was under the control of the > Austrian Hungarian Empire at the time and was a minor port although > several Autrian shipping companies existed and sent hundreds of > immigrants to the New World. M! > y wife's grandfather and grandmother and her father and uncle all > came to Ellis Island through the port of Trieste. Her father told us > of his travels from his village by wagon to the nearest r.r.station > and then the train to Zagreb where they changed trains to Trieste. > When they arrived there they were put up in a boarding house were all > their meals were furnished for 4 days until they were able to board > the ship. The ship stopped in Patnos Greece where it loaded more > passengers and also took on some cargo including olives for the US > market. Next it was Naples where it loaded lemons, and then on to > Algiers where it took on enough coal for it boilers to make the > journey across the ocean to N.Y. When they arrived at Ellis Island > they had tickets by train to Chigago where they changed to a local > train to get them to Kenosha WI their final destination. They arrived > in New York two weeks before the start of W.W.I. Their ship, the > Martha Washington, was impouded and not allowed! > to sail back to Trieste. It was later put into service as a troop shi > p to get US troops to Europe. Now your grandmother arrived at Ellis > Island 2 days after W.W.I began so it was possible for her to cross > Europe by train and disembark from LeHarve with no problem and be one > of the last persons to make it to the US. After the war started > immigration came to a near standstill. > My wife's other grandfather went with several other men from his > village by rail to Rotterdam where they boarded the ship Noordam for > the trip to N.Y. and then on to Pittsburg. The steamship company sold > all five of them tickets from Croatia to the U.S. by rail and ship. > This was in 1905. > > Bill Kane > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > CROATIA-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the > quotes in the subject and the body of the message >

Andrija, My mother was put on to a train bound for Rotterdam from KARLOVAC! Some how she made it. God is good! Tony On Feb 20, 2007, at 10:29 AM, Andrija wrote: > Dear Tony and Nina, > > A couple of items in your discussion of Novasel have piqued my > interest. > > My maternal grandmother's maiden name was Kata Brezovic' She was born > in Sisljavic near Karlovac 11/22/1899 and sailed from Harve, Bordeaux, > France aboard La Savoie arriving Ellis Island 6/27/1914 apparently > alone at age 14. She settled in Clairton, PA and married my > grandfather, an immigrant from Bosnia. > > I have been able to locate her birth certificate, the passenger > manifest, which showed her age as 16, and even, as the result of a > posting on another site, discovered an English-speaking second cousin, > al;so interested in family history, who was able to provide me with > 200 years of genealogy and history. > > What I have never been able to figure out is how she got from > Sisljavic or Karlovac to La Havre. Since your Novosel relatives also > sailed from La Havre, perhaps you can shed some light on how and why > they sailed from there instead of, say, Trieste, which seems to be > closer. I am guessing it might have had something to do with World War > I and the assination of the Archduke, but am just guessing. Any > insights? > > Andrija > > -----Original Message----- >> From: "L. Novasel" <nimbler@mindspring.com> >> Sent: Feb 19, 2007 4:18 PM >> To: croatia@rootsweb.com >> Subject: Re: [CROATIA] NOVOSEL in Karlovac >> >> Tony, >> Thank you for the Novosel and Schuman information. It is very possible >> Mijo worked in the Pennsylvania coal mines after his arrival. Our >> biggest obstacle in tracking his American addresses has been the fact >> that at some point after entry he changed his name to Smith. When he >> married in 1912 it was as Mike Smith. Go figure. >> >> I've been operating from Mijo's birthdate as we know it, and the fact >> that we know he arrived in 1900-1901 from Karlovac. The surname seems >> to be common throughout the county of Karlovac.That is very >> interesting >> about the Schuman surname in Penn. Mijo's marriage license does indeed >> indicate mother's Schumann surname. It sounds Germanic but I guess the >> truth is to be found in the parish registers, arriving soon. >> >> Thanks so much for your help, >> Nina >> >> On Feb 19, 2007, at 4:34 PM, tony zugay wrote: >> >>> Nina, >>> Don't know if this is any help. I was born and raised in Steelton >>> Penna >>> and knew a Novosel family there. My mother was born in Lovic, >>> Croatia >>> which is in Karlovac Zupanja (County) and about 25 km from the city >>> of >>> Karlovac . She was born in 1895 and her godparents were Pavao and >>> Ana >>> Novosel. I have looked at birth records from Pribic (the parish where >>> she was baptized) and see the name Novosel in those church records >>> often. I glanced through the Ellis island list and saw a number of >>> Mijo Novosels listed but none that would have been born in 1882 and >>> arrived in 1901. If Mijo was naturalized it's possible that he would >>> have had to produce a birth/baptism certificate that would have his >>> parents name. >>> Also, there was a Croatian family in our neighborhood that spelled >>> their name SHUMAN. >>> Good luck, >>> Tony Zugay >>> On Feb 19, 2007, at 11:14 AM, L. Novasel wrote: >>> >>>> Mijo Novosel was born Sept.20,1882 in Karlovac, Croatia. He arrived >>>> in >>>> America, Ellis island, September 1, 1901 via Le Havre. Family >>>> documents >>>> list Karlovac as his town of origin. Do not know if that reference >>>> is >>>> to the town or perhaps the county. We have ordered the Karlovac >>>> Catholic parish records from FHC in hopes of finding his parents, >>>> grandparents. He and a male sibling were raised by an uncle in >>>> Karlovac, of whom we have no information. Mijo's 1912 marriage >>>> license >>>> notes his mother's surname as Schumann, likely a misspelling. Can >>>> anyone suggest possible Croatian/ Karlovaki surnames that might >>>> sound >>>> like Schumann to an American clerk? >>>> >>>> In preparing for the transcriptions from the church books, is >>>> there >>>> a >>>> Karlovac Family Register that would help keep us on the right path? >>>> Also, is there a local genealogy or history association that might >>>> be >>>> able to do lookups and provide historical background? Is there an >>>> online list of cemetery sites in this town? >>>> >>>> Nina >>>> >>>> >>>> ------------------------------- >>>> To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to >>>> CROATIA-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the >>>> quotes in the subject and the body of the message >>>> >>> >>> >>> ------------------------------- >>> To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to >>> CROATIA-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the >>> quotes in the subject and the body of the message >>> >> >> >> ------------------------------- >> To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to >> CROATIA-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the >> quotes in the subject and the body of the message > > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > CROATIA-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the > quotes in the subject and the body of the message >

Your mother most likely didn't travel alone to Rotterdam. Almost always the Croatians traveled in groups to the port. Sometimes only two but usually there were 4 or more travelling together to the port and onto the ship. This way they had companionship and people they could talk to in their own language. Still it was a harrowing experience for people who had never left their own village especially if they had to change trains as many of them had to do to go across Europe. Also there were border crossings where their papers were checked. Bill

Actually the Martha Washington going to Italian ownership after WWI makes perfect sense. Austria lost the war and Trieste was given to Italy. Recruiters played a very important part in immigration from the beginning of the Industrial Revolution in America. In the 1850's and 60's the factories in New England heavily recruted French Canadian workers to the shoe factories and textile mills that were developing all over the area. Actually the way Robert described it is one way it happened. They got one person to come and then they got them to tell their friends there were jobs here. They even sent recruiters to Canada to go from farm to farm to sign people up to migrate. The new migrants moved in with their fellow French Canadians until they could afford places of their own. Many times these were two room tenemants with overcrowding and unsanitary water and sewerage conditions. The migrants tended to stay together into little ghetto areas creating in New England what were called "Little Canada's." Often the larger factories supplied the housing, the company store, and many times getting back all that they paid them through rents, food and credit that had to be paid back when pay day came around and was taken out of their pay. Our Croatian immigrants were often recruited but it was largely by the first ones to come over who wrote to them to tell them there were jobs here and they could get them work. Some time the claims were overstated because they didn't want to admit that they weren't doing that well in the new country. In Kenosha it was the Simmons mattress factory that employed most of the Croatians as well as other migrants. (quite a few Italians came as well). The same pattern existed. The man would come first and he would live with other male migrants in a rooming house or else a Croatian family that had established there would rent rooms out to a couple of single or married men that had come without their families. Once established the man would send for his wife or family and they would repeat the process, buying or renting a house and taking in new migrant tenants. I don't know of company recruiters going to Europe but it is certainly possible and most likely did happen. My father in law told us of his trip from Ellis Island across to Manhatten and then their trip by horse drawn trolley to the railroad station to take the train to Chicago. He and his brother kept looking fot the streets paved in gold that the letters home had talked about and were dissapointed in not seeing any. He was 12 at the time. Bill Kane

> >Message: 2 >Date: Tue, 20 Feb 2007 13:56:40 -0800 >From: "L. Novasel" <nimbler@mindspring.com> >Subject: Re: [CROATIA] NOVOSEL in Karlovac >To: Andrija <hrvat@earthlink.net>, croatia@rootsweb.com >Message-ID: <3EAE692A-C12D-11DB-97E5-000A95D1E4BE@mindspring.com> >Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed > >Andrija, >As a newcomer to Croatian research I'm only assuming that the same >context applies there as elsewhere in Europe. >Le Havre was a pivotal trading center in the years our ancestors filed >for emigration. I understand there was a circular route, making optimum >use of the ships. Cotton leaving from New Orleans for instance was >routed to London where the cargo was unloaded. The ship then loaded >trade goods destined for Le Havre, unloaded again, and took aboard >human cargo bound for America, completing the trade circle for the >shipping company. > >The contractor or travel organizer went into the villages, signed up >our emigrating great grandmothers and grandfathers, then escorted them >to the shipper's home port, with whom he in turn had contracted. My >guess is that they traveled up the rivers avoiding trouble spots in the >years preceding the war. Interesting Trieste wasn't utilized, but >hazarding another guess, there was most likely not trade material in >sufficient quantity to make the route profitable. Presumably the >political- economic instability would have guaranteed that. Just >speculation though. > >Nina Actually, Trieste was a port of embarkation. I just don't think it had anywhere the tonnage that came in and out of Le Havre. My father and his family arrived at Ellis Island on the SS Martha Washington, which was operated out of Trieste by Unione Austriaca from 1908 to 1914. After WW1, she transferred to the Italian owned Cosulich Lines, also of Trieste, and continued the New York run through the 20's. Incidentally, the Cosulich family originated in Mali Losinj. Don

Sandy, This is a different spelling than you gave in your original message (as you can see from the subject line) and it makes a difference! Now I see the manifests you mention. In regards to his 1906 arrival his last residence as given as Krizevac, and he was traveling with a person from Zabno, HABINANEC, Vinko And there is NO indication that he was sent back, 16 was "of age" so that would not have been an issue... and he had more money than the man with whom he was traveling. His destination was Duluth, MN The 1909 manifest says his last residence was Zabon or Zabno and his next of kin there was his father Djuro ROSEVIC ! This manifest also states he had been in the US at Duluth from 1906 to 1908 Destination this trip was to Uncle Josip ?? at Duluth, his birthplace is listed as Zabno I found one of your old posts on Appleby gen forum asking if sv Ivans was an orphanage.... Also SADEK is spelled with a diacritical mark \/ over the S making the name sound like shahdak. The manifest that showed "He documented that he was going to stay with a cousin, Joseph Dou..broski (Spelling?) in Peabody MA"?...is the wrong manifest... Ellis Island org mismatched his name to the wrong manifest. Also the other entry at Ellis Is for the 1909 arrival was a mismatch... so you can scratch Zsbor, Hungary, and Grozevac from your list of possible places. Robert Jerin G Steven Metcalf <metcalf_gs@msn.com> wrote: My grandfather settled in Ironwood, Michigan. His birthdate was 8/15/1889. I have found his Ellis Island Records - he came in 4/6/1905 at the age of 16 but was sent back, I think. He again came in 2/3/1909. On the 1909 immigration document, it said that he came from Zsbor, Hungary. He documented that he was going to stay with a cousin, Joseph Dou..broski (Spelling?) in Peabody MA. He signed his naturalization records with his last name spelled Sdek. I have contacted the Ministry of Archives in Zagreb and they have no record of his birth in Svet Ivan Zabno, Croatia. My grandfather married Mary Kostello (Kostelc) and had seven children. I have all of the information on his children. Thanks for your help. Sandy Metcalf ----- Original Message ----- From: E. Sharp To: croatia@rootsweb.com Sent: Sunday, February 18, 2007 8:37 AM Subject: Re: [CROATIA] Sedek, Sefan Surnames Can you tell us where your grandfather settled in the U. S. so we might be better able to help you? Did he come here by himself, with parents, or with wife and children? Names? Thanks Elaine ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to CROATIA-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to CROATIA-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message "Civilization is the progress toward a society of privacy. The savage's whole existence is public, ruled by the laws of his tribe. Civilization is the process of setting man free from men." Ayn Rand 1905-1982

Robert and Bill, Thank you for clarifying the travel methods to the ports. I've been north of the Alps too long. Nina

When I was young, I heard a lot about recruiters. These were people got people to work for their company, in our case, mining companies. I heard that these recruiters were paid per head. There must have been some of them in various countries. There is a story at Ironworld that a mining company near Kinney MN brought in the entire population of a village in Bulgaria so they could get enough workers. The land was so poor that no one else moved in. The village no longer exists. I've tried to find out more about this but there doesn't seem anything in print about it. ----- Original Message ----- From: "L. Novasel" <nimbler@mindspring.com> To: "Andrija" <hrvat@earthlink.net>; <croatia@rootsweb.com> Sent: Tuesday, February 20, 2007 3:56 PM Subject: Re: [CROATIA] NOVOSEL in Karlovac > Andrija, > As a newcomer to Croatian research I'm only assuming that the same > context applies there as elsewhere in Europe. > Le Havre was a pivotal trading center in the years our ancestors filed > for emigration. I understand there was a circular route, making optimum > use of the ships. Cotton leaving from New Orleans for instance was > routed to London where the cargo was unloaded. The ship then loaded > trade goods destined for Le Havre, unloaded again, and took aboard > human cargo bound for America, completing the trade circle for the > shipping company. > > The contractor or travel organizer went into the villages, signed up > our emigrating great grandmothers and grandfathers, then escorted them > to the shipper's home port, with whom he in turn had contracted. My > guess is that they traveled up the rivers avoiding trouble spots in the > years preceding the war. Interesting Trieste wasn't utilized, but > hazarding another guess, there was most likely not trade material in > sufficient quantity to make the route profitable. Presumably the > political- economic instability would have guaranteed that. Just > speculation though. > > Nina > > > On Feb 20, 2007, at 10:29 AM, Andrija wrote: > >> Dear Tony and Nina, >> >> A couple of items in your discussion of Novasel have piqued my >> interest. >> >> My maternal grandmother's maiden name was Kata Brezovic' She was born >> in Sisljavic near Karlovac 11/22/1899 and sailed from Harve, Bordeaux, >> France aboard La Savoie arriving Ellis Island 6/27/1914 apparently >> alone at age 14. She settled in Clairton, PA and married my >> grandfather, an immigrant from Bosnia. >> >> I have been able to locate her birth certificate, the passenger >> manifest, which showed her age as 16, and even, as the result of a >> posting on another site, discovered an English-speaking second cousin, >> al;so interested in family history, who was able to provide me with >> 200 years of genealogy and history. >> >> What I have never been able to figure out is how she got from >> Sisljavic or Karlovac to La Havre. Since your Novosel relatives also >> sailed from La Havre, perhaps you can shed some light on how and why >> they sailed from there instead of, say, Trieste, which seems to be >> closer. I am guessing it might have had something to do with World War >> I and the assination of the Archduke, but am just guessing. Any >> insights? >> >> Andrija >> >> -----Original Message----- >>> From: "L. Novasel" <nimbler@mindspring.com> >>> Sent: Feb 19, 2007 4:18 PM >>> To: croatia@rootsweb.com >>> Subject: Re: [CROATIA] NOVOSEL in Karlovac >>> >>> Tony, >>> Thank you for the Novosel and Schuman information. It is very possible >>> Mijo worked in the Pennsylvania coal mines after his arrival. Our >>> biggest obstacle in tracking his American addresses has been the fact >>> that at some point after entry he changed his name to Smith. When he >>> married in 1912 it was as Mike Smith. Go figure. >>> >>> I've been operating from Mijo's birthdate as we know it, and the fact >>> that we know he arrived in 1900-1901 from Karlovac. The surname seems >>> to be common throughout the county of Karlovac.That is very >>> interesting >>> about the Schuman surname in Penn. Mijo's marriage license does indeed >>> indicate mother's Schumann surname. It sounds Germanic but I guess the >>> truth is to be found in the parish registers, arriving soon. >>> >>> Thanks so much for your help, >>> Nina >>> >>> On Feb 19, 2007, at 4:34 PM, tony zugay wrote: >>> >>>> Nina, >>>> Don't know if this is any help. I was born and raised in Steelton >>>> Penna >>>> and knew a Novosel family there. My mother was born in Lovic, >>>> Croatia >>>> which is in Karlovac Zupanja (County) and about 25 km from the city >>>> of >>>> Karlovac . She was born in 1895 and her godparents were Pavao and >>>> Ana >>>> Novosel. I have looked at birth records from Pribic (the parish where >>>> she was baptized) and see the name Novosel in those church records >>>> often. I glanced through the Ellis island list and saw a number of >>>> Mijo Novosels listed but none that would have been born in 1882 and >>>> arrived in 1901. If Mijo was naturalized it's possible that he would >>>> have had to produce a birth/baptism certificate that would have his >>>> parents name. >>>> Also, there was a Croatian family in our neighborhood that spelled >>>> their name SHUMAN. >>>> Good luck, >>>> Tony Zugay >>>> On Feb 19, 2007, at 11:14 AM, L. Novasel wrote: >>>> >>>>> Mijo Novosel was born Sept.20,1882 in Karlovac, Croatia. He arrived >>>>> in >>>>> America, Ellis island, September 1, 1901 via Le Havre. Family >>>>> documents >>>>> list Karlovac as his town of origin. Do not know if that reference >>>>> is >>>>> to the town or perhaps the county. We have ordered the Karlovac >>>>> Catholic parish records from FHC in hopes of finding his parents, >>>>> grandparents. He and a male sibling were raised by an uncle in >>>>> Karlovac, of whom we have no information. Mijo's 1912 marriage >>>>> license >>>>> notes his mother's surname as Schumann, likely a misspelling. Can >>>>> anyone suggest possible Croatian/ Karlovaki surnames that might >>>>> sound >>>>> like Schumann to an American clerk? >>>>> >>>>> In preparing for the transcriptions from the church books, is >>>>> there >>>>> a >>>>> Karlovac Family Register that would help keep us on the right path? >>>>> Also, is there a local genealogy or history association that might >>>>> be >>>>> able to do lookups and provide historical background? Is there an >>>>> online list of cemetery sites in this town? >>>>> >>>>> Nina >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> ------------------------------- >>>>> To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to >>>>> CROATIA-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the >>>>> quotes in the subject and the body of the message >>>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> ------------------------------- >>>> To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to >>>> CROATIA-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the >>>> quotes in the subject and the body of the message >>>> >>> >>> >>> ------------------------------- >>> To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to >>> CROATIA-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the >>> quotes in the subject and the body of the message >> >> >> ------------------------------- >> To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to >> CROATIA-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the >> quotes in the subject and the body of the message >> > > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > CROATIA-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the > quotes in the subject and the body of the message >

Bill, Just to add to this post WW II many Croatians came under the Displaced Persons Act, signed by Pres. Truman which allowed approximately 500,000 people who had been displaced by the war. They arrived mostly on US Troop ships that had taken US troops to occupy Europe. They were seperated with the younger children and women housed in one area and the older boys and men in another part of the ship. They also performed some crew type duties. Others arrived via airlines. Jerome Brentar, who had been a young Croaitan-American soldier in Europe at the end of WW II found a camp in Austria where a large part of the population was Croatian women and children, no men, they had been killed in the war or after the war. Those were the first 50 Croatian DPs to come to the US post WW II... Ancesty.com pay subscription will allow one to find many of their ship and air manifests. http://www.dpcamps.org/linksR-Z.html Robert "wfkane@juno.com" <wfkane@juno.com> wrote: Let me see if I can clear up some of the mystery of travel from Croatia and other parts of Europe to the US and particularly to Ellis Island. In Croatia the steamship companies were selling all inclusive tickets from the villages where the emigrants lived all the way to the states maybe even to their final destination in the States. The ticket included passage by train from the nearest r.r. station to the port of disembarcation. There were many such ports that were used. Le Havre was one of the largest but also Hamburg, Rotterdam, and others. The shipping companys also put up the passengers in boarding houses and cheap hotels at the port of departure for a few days before the ships left the port as they usually arrived before the ship was ready to depart. Trieste was also used, Trieste was under the control of the Austrian Hungarian Empire at the time and was a minor port although several Autrian shipping companies existed and sent hundreds of immigrants to the New World. M! y wife's grandfather and grandmother and her father and uncle all came to Ellis Island through the port of Trieste. Her father told us of his travels from his village by wagon to the nearest r.r.station and then the train to Zagreb where they changed trains to Trieste. When they arrived there they were put up in a boarding house were all their meals were furnished for 4 days until they were able to board the ship. The ship stopped in Patnos Greece where it loaded more passengers and also took on some cargo including olives for the US market. Next it was Naples where it loaded lemons, and then on to Algiers where it took on enough coal for it boilers to make the journey across the ocean to N.Y. When they arrived at Ellis Island they had tickets by train to Chigago where they changed to a local train to get them to Kenosha WI their final destination. They arrived in New York two weeks before the start of W.W.I. Their ship, the Martha Washington, was impouded and not allowed! to sail back to Trieste. It was later put into service as a troop shi p to get US troops to Europe. Now your grandmother arrived at Ellis Island 2 days after W.W.I began so it was possible for her to cross Europe by train and disembark from LeHarve with no problem and be one of the last persons to make it to the US. After the war started immigration came to a near standstill. My wife's other grandfather went with several other men from his village by rail to Rotterdam where they boarded the ship Noordam for the trip to N.Y. and then on to Pittsburg. The steamship company sold all five of them tickets from Croatia to the U.S. by rail and ship. This was in 1905. Bill Kane ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to CROATIA-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message "Civilization is the progress toward a society of privacy. The savage's whole existence is public, ruled by the laws of his tribe. Civilization is the process of setting man free from men." Ayn Rand 1905-1982

My grandfather settled in Ironwood, Michigan. His birthdate was 8/15/1889. I have found his Ellis Island Records - he came in 4/6/1905 at the age of 16 but was sent back, I think. He again came in 2/3/1909. On the 1909 immigration document, it said that he came from Zsbor, Hungary. He documented that he was going to stay with a cousin, Joseph Dou..broski (Spelling?) in Peabody MA. He signed his naturalization records with his last name spelled Sdek. I have contacted the Ministry of Archives in Zagreb and they have no record of his birth in Svet Ivan Zabno, Croatia. My grandfather married Mary Kostello (Kostelc) and had seven children. I have all of the information on his children. Thanks for your help. Sandy Metcalf ----- Original Message ----- From: E. Sharp<mailto:bellemarco@hotmail.com> To: croatia@rootsweb.com<mailto:croatia@rootsweb.com> Sent: Sunday, February 18, 2007 8:37 AM Subject: Re: [CROATIA] Sedek, Sefan Surnames Can you tell us where your grandfather settled in the U. S. so we might be better able to help you? Did he come here by himself, with parents, or with wife and children? Names? Thanks Elaine ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to CROATIA-request@rootsweb.com<mailto:CROATIA-request@rootsweb.com> with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message

William Wow, a very good description of the immigrants routes. You missed the most frequently used port... Bremen Robert "wfkane@juno.com" <wfkane@juno.com> wrote: Let me see if I can clear up some of the mystery of travel from Croatia and other parts of Europe to the US and particularly to Ellis Island. In Croatia the steamship companies were selling all inclusive tickets from the villages where the emigrants lived all the way to the states maybe even to their final destination in the States. The ticket included passage by train from the nearest r.r. station to the port of disembarcation. There were many such ports that were used. Le Havre was one of the largest but also Hamburg, Rotterdam, and others. The shipping companys also put up the passengers in boarding houses and cheap hotels at the port of departure for a few days before the ships left the port as they usually arrived before the ship was ready to depart. Trieste was also used, Trieste was under the control of the Austrian Hungarian Empire at the time and was a minor port although several Autrian shipping companies existed and sent hundreds of immigrants to the New World. M! y wife's grandfather and grandmother and her father and uncle all came to Ellis Island through the port of Trieste. Her father told us of his travels from his village by wagon to the nearest r.r.station and then the train to Zagreb where they changed trains to Trieste. When they arrived there they were put up in a boarding house were all their meals were furnished for 4 days until they were able to board the ship. The ship stopped in Patnos Greece where it loaded more passengers and also took on some cargo including olives for the US market. Next it was Naples where it loaded lemons, and then on to Algiers where it took on enough coal for it boilers to make the journey across the ocean to N.Y. When they arrived at Ellis Island they had tickets by train to Chigago where they changed to a local train to get them to Kenosha WI their final destination. They arrived in New York two weeks before the start of W.W.I. Their ship, the Martha Washington, was impouded and not allowed! to sail back to Trieste. It was later put into service as a troop shi p to get US troops to Europe. Now your grandmother arrived at Ellis Island 2 days after W.W.I began so it was possible for her to cross Europe by train and disembark from LeHarve with no problem and be one of the last persons to make it to the US. After the war started immigration came to a near standstill. My wife's other grandfather went with several other men from his village by rail to Rotterdam where they boarded the ship Noordam for the trip to N.Y. and then on to Pittsburg. The steamship company sold all five of them tickets from Croatia to the U.S. by rail and ship. This was in 1905. Bill Kane ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to CROATIA-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message "Civilization is the progress toward a society of privacy. The savage's whole existence is public, ruled by the laws of his tribe. Civilization is the process of setting man free from men." Ayn Rand 1905-1982

There was a story a few years ago about BF Goodrich using recruiters... and in many case they were previous immigrants... one can just hear the boss asking Ivan... "are there more like you at home".... that is hard workers! Robert Don Marinkovich <djedo@2z.net> wrote: When I was young, I heard a lot about recruiters. These were people got people to work for their company, in our case, mining companies. I heard that these recruiters were paid per head. There must have been some of them in various countries. There is a story at Ironworld that a mining company near Kinney MN brought in the entire population of a village in Bulgaria so they could get enough workers. The land was so poor that no one else moved in. The village no longer exists. I've tried to find out more about this but there doesn't seem anything in print about it. ----- Original Message ----- From: "L. Novasel" To: "Andrija" --------------------------------- ; Sent: Tuesday, February 20, 2007 3:56 PM Subject: Re: [CROATIA] NOVOSEL in Karlovac > Andrija, > As a newcomer to Croatian research I'm only assuming that the same > context applies there as elsewhere in Europe. > Le Havre was a pivotal trading center in the years our ancestors filed > for emigration. I understand there was a circular route, making optimum > use of the ships. Cotton leaving from New Orleans for instance was > routed to London where the cargo was unloaded. The ship then loaded > trade goods destined for Le Havre, unloaded again, and took aboard > human cargo bound for America, completing the trade circle for the > shipping company. > > The contractor or travel organizer went into the villages, signed up > our emigrating great grandmothers and grandfathers, then escorted them > to the shipper's home port, with whom he in turn had contracted. My > guess is that they traveled up the rivers avoiding trouble spots in the > years preceding the war. Interesting Trieste wasn't utilized, but > hazarding another guess, there was most likely not trade material in > sufficient quantity to make the route profitable. Presumably the > political- economic instability would have guaranteed that. Just > speculation though. > > Nina > > > On Feb 20, 2007, at 10:29 AM, Andrija wrote: > >> Dear Tony and Nina, >> >> A couple of items in your discussion of Novasel have piqued my >> interest. >> >> My maternal grandmother's maiden name was Kata Brezovic' She was born >> in Sisljavic near Karlovac 11/22/1899 and sailed from Harve, Bordeaux, >> France aboard La Savoie arriving Ellis Island 6/27/1914 apparently >> alone at age 14. She settled in Clairton, PA and married my >> grandfather, an immigrant from Bosnia. >> >> I have been able to locate her birth certificate, the passenger >> manifest, which showed her age as 16, and even, as the result of a >> posting on another site, discovered an English-speaking second cousin, >> al;so interested in family history, who was able to provide me with >> 200 years of genealogy and history. >> >> What I have never been able to figure out is how she got from >> Sisljavic or Karlovac to La Havre. Since your Novosel relatives also >> sailed from La Havre, perhaps you can shed some light on how and why >> they sailed from there instead of, say, Trieste, which seems to be >> closer. I am guessing it might have had something to do with World War >> I and the assination of the Archduke, but am just guessing. Any >> insights? >> >> Andrija >> >> -----Original Message----- >>> From: "L. Novasel" >>> Sent: Feb 19, 2007 4:18 PM >>> To: croatia@rootsweb.com >>> Subject: Re: [CROATIA] NOVOSEL in Karlovac >>> >>> Tony, >>> Thank you for the Novosel and Schuman information. It is very possible >>> Mijo worked in the Pennsylvania coal mines after his arrival. Our >>> biggest obstacle in tracking his American addresses has been the fact >>> that at some point after entry he changed his name to Smith. When he >>> married in 1912 it was as Mike Smith. Go figure. >>> >>> I've been operating from Mijo's birthdate as we know it, and the fact >>> that we know he arrived in 1900-1901 from Karlovac. The surname seems >>> to be common throughout the county of Karlovac.That is very >>> interesting >>> about the Schuman surname in Penn. Mijo's marriage license does indeed >>> indicate mother's Schumann surname. It sounds Germanic but I guess the >>> truth is to be found in the parish registers, arriving soon. >>> >>> Thanks so much for your help, >>> Nina >>> >>> On Feb 19, 2007, at 4:34 PM, tony zugay wrote: >>> >>>> Nina, >>>> Don't know if this is any help. I was born and raised in Steelton >>>> Penna >>>> and knew a Novosel family there. My mother was born in Lovic, >>>> Croatia >>>> which is in Karlovac Zupanja (County) and about 25 km from the city >>>> of >>>> Karlovac . She was born in 1895 and her godparents were Pavao and >>>> Ana >>>> Novosel. I have looked at birth records from Pribic (the parish where >>>> she was baptized) and see the name Novosel in those church records >>>> often. I glanced through the Ellis island list and saw a number of >>>> Mijo Novosels listed but none that would have been born in 1882 and >>>> arrived in 1901. If Mijo was naturalized it's possible that he would >>>> have had to produce a birth/baptism certificate that would have his >>>> parents name. >>>> Also, there was a Croatian family in our neighborhood that spelled >>>> their name SHUMAN. >>>> Good luck, >>>> Tony Zugay >>>> On Feb 19, 2007, at 11:14 AM, L. Novasel wrote: >>>> >>>>> Mijo Novosel was born Sept.20,1882 in Karlovac, Croatia. He arrived >>>>> in >>>>> America, Ellis island, September 1, 1901 via Le Havre. Family >>>>> documents >>>>> list Karlovac as his town of origin. Do not know if that reference >>>>> is >>>>> to the town or perhaps the county. We have ordered the Karlovac >>>>> Catholic parish records from FHC in hopes of finding his parents, >>>>> grandparents. He and a male sibling were raised by an uncle in >>>>> Karlovac, of whom we have no information. Mijo's 1912 marriage >>>>> license >>>>> notes his mother's surname as Schumann, likely a misspelling. Can >>>>> anyone suggest possible Croatian/ Karlovaki surnames that might >>>>> sound >>>>> like Schumann to an American clerk? >>>>> >>>>> In preparing for the transcriptions from the church books, is >>>>> there >>>>> a >>>>> Karlovac Family Register that would help keep us on the right path? >>>>> Also, is there a local genealogy or history association that might >>>>> be >>>>> able to do lookups and provide historical background? Is there an >>>>> online list of cemetery sites in this town? >>>>> >>>>> Nina >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> ------------------------------- >>>>> To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to >>>>> CROATIA-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the >>>>> quotes in the subject and the body of the message >>>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> ------------------------------- >>>> To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to >>>> CROATIA-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the >>>> quotes in the subject and the body of the message >>>> >>> >>> >>> ------------------------------- >>> To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to >>> CROATIA-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the >>> quotes in the subject and the body of the message >> >> >> ------------------------------- >> To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to >> CROATIA-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the >> quotes in the subject and the body of the message >> > > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > CROATIA-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the > quotes in the subject and the body of the message > ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to CROATIA-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message "Civilization is the progress toward a society of privacy. The savage's whole existence is public, ruled by the laws of his tribe. Civilization is the process of setting man free from men." Ayn Rand 1905-1982

Andrija, As a newcomer to Croatian research I'm only assuming that the same context applies there as elsewhere in Europe. Le Havre was a pivotal trading center in the years our ancestors filed for emigration. I understand there was a circular route, making optimum use of the ships. Cotton leaving from New Orleans for instance was routed to London where the cargo was unloaded. The ship then loaded trade goods destined for Le Havre, unloaded again, and took aboard human cargo bound for America, completing the trade circle for the shipping company. The contractor or travel organizer went into the villages, signed up our emigrating great grandmothers and grandfathers, then escorted them to the shipper's home port, with whom he in turn had contracted. My guess is that they traveled up the rivers avoiding trouble spots in the years preceding the war. Interesting Trieste wasn't utilized, but hazarding another guess, there was most likely not trade material in sufficient quantity to make the route profitable. Presumably the political- economic instability would have guaranteed that. Just speculation though. Nina On Feb 20, 2007, at 10:29 AM, Andrija wrote: > Dear Tony and Nina, > > A couple of items in your discussion of Novasel have piqued my > interest. > > My maternal grandmother's maiden name was Kata Brezovic' She was born > in Sisljavic near Karlovac 11/22/1899 and sailed from Harve, Bordeaux, > France aboard La Savoie arriving Ellis Island 6/27/1914 apparently > alone at age 14. She settled in Clairton, PA and married my > grandfather, an immigrant from Bosnia. > > I have been able to locate her birth certificate, the passenger > manifest, which showed her age as 16, and even, as the result of a > posting on another site, discovered an English-speaking second cousin, > al;so interested in family history, who was able to provide me with > 200 years of genealogy and history. > > What I have never been able to figure out is how she got from > Sisljavic or Karlovac to La Havre. Since your Novosel relatives also > sailed from La Havre, perhaps you can shed some light on how and why > they sailed from there instead of, say, Trieste, which seems to be > closer. I am guessing it might have had something to do with World War > I and the assination of the Archduke, but am just guessing. Any > insights? > > Andrija > > -----Original Message----- >> From: "L. Novasel" <nimbler@mindspring.com> >> Sent: Feb 19, 2007 4:18 PM >> To: croatia@rootsweb.com >> Subject: Re: [CROATIA] NOVOSEL in Karlovac >> >> Tony, >> Thank you for the Novosel and Schuman information. It is very possible >> Mijo worked in the Pennsylvania coal mines after his arrival. Our >> biggest obstacle in tracking his American addresses has been the fact >> that at some point after entry he changed his name to Smith. When he >> married in 1912 it was as Mike Smith. Go figure. >> >> I've been operating from Mijo's birthdate as we know it, and the fact >> that we know he arrived in 1900-1901 from Karlovac. The surname seems >> to be common throughout the county of Karlovac.That is very >> interesting >> about the Schuman surname in Penn. Mijo's marriage license does indeed >> indicate mother's Schumann surname. It sounds Germanic but I guess the >> truth is to be found in the parish registers, arriving soon. >> >> Thanks so much for your help, >> Nina >> >> On Feb 19, 2007, at 4:34 PM, tony zugay wrote: >> >>> Nina, >>> Don't know if this is any help. I was born and raised in Steelton >>> Penna >>> and knew a Novosel family there. My mother was born in Lovic, >>> Croatia >>> which is in Karlovac Zupanja (County) and about 25 km from the city >>> of >>> Karlovac . She was born in 1895 and her godparents were Pavao and >>> Ana >>> Novosel. I have looked at birth records from Pribic (the parish where >>> she was baptized) and see the name Novosel in those church records >>> often. I glanced through the Ellis island list and saw a number of >>> Mijo Novosels listed but none that would have been born in 1882 and >>> arrived in 1901. If Mijo was naturalized it's possible that he would >>> have had to produce a birth/baptism certificate that would have his >>> parents name. >>> Also, there was a Croatian family in our neighborhood that spelled >>> their name SHUMAN. >>> Good luck, >>> Tony Zugay >>> On Feb 19, 2007, at 11:14 AM, L. Novasel wrote: >>> >>>> Mijo Novosel was born Sept.20,1882 in Karlovac, Croatia. He arrived >>>> in >>>> America, Ellis island, September 1, 1901 via Le Havre. Family >>>> documents >>>> list Karlovac as his town of origin. Do not know if that reference >>>> is >>>> to the town or perhaps the county. We have ordered the Karlovac >>>> Catholic parish records from FHC in hopes of finding his parents, >>>> grandparents. He and a male sibling were raised by an uncle in >>>> Karlovac, of whom we have no information. Mijo's 1912 marriage >>>> license >>>> notes his mother's surname as Schumann, likely a misspelling. Can >>>> anyone suggest possible Croatian/ Karlovaki surnames that might >>>> sound >>>> like Schumann to an American clerk? >>>> >>>> In preparing for the transcriptions from the church books, is >>>> there >>>> a >>>> Karlovac Family Register that would help keep us on the right path? >>>> Also, is there a local genealogy or history association that might >>>> be >>>> able to do lookups and provide historical background? Is there an >>>> online list of cemetery sites in this town? >>>> >>>> Nina >>>> >>>> >>>> ------------------------------- >>>> To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to >>>> CROATIA-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the >>>> quotes in the subject and the body of the message >>>> >>> >>> >>> ------------------------------- >>> To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to >>> CROATIA-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the >>> quotes in the subject and the body of the message >>> >> >> >> ------------------------------- >> To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to >> CROATIA-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the >> quotes in the subject and the body of the message > > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > CROATIA-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the > quotes in the subject and the body of the message >

Dear Tony and Nina, A couple of items in your discussion of Novasel have piqued my interest. My maternal grandmother's maiden name was Kata Brezovic' She was born in Sisljavic near Karlovac 11/22/1899 and sailed from Harve, Bordeaux, France aboard La Savoie arriving Ellis Island 6/27/1914 apparently alone at age 14. She settled in Clairton, PA and married my grandfather, an immigrant from Bosnia. I have been able to locate her birth certificate, the passenger manifest, which showed her age as 16, and even, as the result of a posting on another site, discovered an English-speaking second cousin, al;so interested in family history, who was able to provide me with 200 years of genealogy and history. What I have never been able to figure out is how she got from Sisljavic or Karlovac to La Havre. Since your Novosel relatives also sailed from La Havre, perhaps you can shed some light on how and why they sailed from there instead of, say, Trieste, which seems to be closer. I am guessing it might have had something to do with World War I and the assination of the Archduke, but am just guessing. Any insights? Andrija -----Original Message----- >From: "L. Novasel" <nimbler@mindspring.com> >Sent: Feb 19, 2007 4:18 PM >To: croatia@rootsweb.com >Subject: Re: [CROATIA] NOVOSEL in Karlovac > >Tony, >Thank you for the Novosel and Schuman information. It is very possible >Mijo worked in the Pennsylvania coal mines after his arrival. Our >biggest obstacle in tracking his American addresses has been the fact >that at some point after entry he changed his name to Smith. When he >married in 1912 it was as Mike Smith. Go figure. > >I've been operating from Mijo's birthdate as we know it, and the fact >that we know he arrived in 1900-1901 from Karlovac. The surname seems >to be common throughout the county of Karlovac.That is very interesting >about the Schuman surname in Penn. Mijo's marriage license does indeed >indicate mother's Schumann surname. It sounds Germanic but I guess the >truth is to be found in the parish registers, arriving soon. > >Thanks so much for your help, >Nina > >On Feb 19, 2007, at 4:34 PM, tony zugay wrote: > >> Nina, >> Don't know if this is any help. I was born and raised in Steelton Penna >> and knew a Novosel family there. My mother was born in Lovic, Croatia >> which is in Karlovac Zupanja (County) and about 25 km from the city of >> Karlovac . She was born in 1895 and her godparents were Pavao and Ana >> Novosel. I have looked at birth records from Pribic (the parish where >> she was baptized) and see the name Novosel in those church records >> often. I glanced through the Ellis island list and saw a number of >> Mijo Novosels listed but none that would have been born in 1882 and >> arrived in 1901. If Mijo was naturalized it's possible that he would >> have had to produce a birth/baptism certificate that would have his >> parents name. >> Also, there was a Croatian family in our neighborhood that spelled >> their name SHUMAN. >> Good luck, >> Tony Zugay >> On Feb 19, 2007, at 11:14 AM, L. Novasel wrote: >> >>> Mijo Novosel was born Sept.20,1882 in Karlovac, Croatia. He arrived in >>> America, Ellis island, September 1, 1901 via Le Havre. Family >>> documents >>> list Karlovac as his town of origin. Do not know if that reference is >>> to the town or perhaps the county. We have ordered the Karlovac >>> Catholic parish records from FHC in hopes of finding his parents, >>> grandparents. He and a male sibling were raised by an uncle in >>> Karlovac, of whom we have no information. Mijo's 1912 marriage license >>> notes his mother's surname as Schumann, likely a misspelling. Can >>> anyone suggest possible Croatian/ Karlovaki surnames that might sound >>> like Schumann to an American clerk? >>> >>> In preparing for the transcriptions from the church books, is there >>> a >>> Karlovac Family Register that would help keep us on the right path? >>> Also, is there a local genealogy or history association that might be >>> able to do lookups and provide historical background? Is there an >>> online list of cemetery sites in this town? >>> >>> Nina >>> >>> >>> ------------------------------- >>> To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to >>> CROATIA-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the >>> quotes in the subject and the body of the message >>> >> >> >> ------------------------------- >> To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to >> CROATIA-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the >> quotes in the subject and the body of the message >> > > >------------------------------- >To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to CROATIA-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message

I found the following information on Mijo Novosel using Ancestry.com WWI draft registration cards Mijo Novosel b. 15 June 1884 living in Cleveland Ohio as a fireman for a stell company. Mijo Novoselic b. 25 Sept 1887 living in Indiana Pennsylvania, married with 2 children, I found the following passengers listed as having a Mijo Novosel somehow: >From Ancesty Immigration records. Search Results - Baltimore Passenger Lists, 1820-1948 You searched for Mijo Novosel from 1882 - 1970 Refine your search Record Name/ Arrival Date/ Estimated birth year/ Gender /Port of Departure /Last Residence /Ship Name Gjuro Basic 31 Mar 1906 abt 1889 Male Bremen, Germany HUN;HRV Breslau Janko Bogovic 14 Mar 1903 abt 1872 Male Bremen, Germany Croatia Frankfurt Stefan Busija 14 Mar 1903 abt 1880 Male Bremen, Germany Croatia Frankfurt Nijo Kusic 6 Mar 1902 abt 1870 Male Bremen, Germany Barilovic Willehad Mijo Novosel 30 Aug 1901 abt 1885 Male Bremen, Germany Sica Gera Mijo Novosel 8 Jan 1902 abt 1883 Male Bremen, Germany St Martin Gera Mijo Novosel 7 Feb 1902 abt 1886 Male Bremen, Germany So. Martin Darmstadt Mijo Novosel 29 Mar 1902 abt 1877 Male Bremen, Germany Riccica Gera Mijo Novosel 13 Dec 1905 abt 1883 Male Bremen, Germany HUN;HRV Chemnitz Mijo Lovinic Novosel 21 Dec 1899 abt 1877 Male Bremen, Germany Taskovo Dresden Found these New York Immigrants from Ancesty.com as well. Hope it helps your search. Welcome, davidmothkovich Log OutUpgradeMy AccountHelp Home My Ancestry Search Charts and Forms Family Trees Ancestry Community Learning Center Store Exact Search Results - New York Passenger Lists, 1820-1957 You searched for Mijo Novosel from 1882 - 1970 Refine your search Record Name /Arrival Date/ Estimated birth year/ Gender/ Port of Departure/ Ethnicity Nationality/ Ship Name Mijo Novosel 5 Sep 1895 abt 1877 Male Bremen Hungarian Lahn Mijo Novosel 21 Jan 1899 abt 1876 Male Bremen Croatian Oldenburg Mijo Novosel 19 Nov 1901 abt 1871 Male Bremen Croatian Konigin Luise Mijo Novosel 19 Aug 1902 Kronprinz Wilhelm Mijo Novosel 19 Aug 1902 abt 1884 Female Bremen Kronprinz Wilhelm Mijo Novosel 18 Dec 1905 abt 1872 Male Havre Croatian La Bretagne Mijo Novosel 13 Mar 1905 abt 1889 Male Havre German La Touraine Mijo Novosel 9 Sep 1905 abt 1888 Male Havre Croatian Hudson Mijo Novosel 2 Feb 1905 abt 1862 Male Bremen Croatian Kaiser Wilhelm der Grosse Mijo Novosel 4 Apr 1905 abt 1880 Male Antwerp, Belgium Croatian Zeeland Mijo Novosel 27 Nov 1907 abt 1871 Male Bremen Croatian Kronprinz Wilhelm Mijo Novosel 27 Nov 1907 abt 1871 Male Bremen Croatian Kronprinz Wilhelm Mijo Novosel 27 Nov 1907 abt 1871 Male Bremen Croatian Kronprinz Wilhelm Mijo Novosel 26 Oct 1909 abt 1885 Male Rotterdam Croatian Nieuw Amsterdam Mijo Novosel 1 Jun 1910 abt 1873 Male Trieste Croatian Alice Mijo Novosel 19 Nov 1911 abt 1893 Male Havre Croatian La Provence Mijo Novosel 4 Jun 1921 abt 1899 Male Cherbourg Croatian Saxonia Mijo Novosel 9 Mar 1927 abt 1871 Male Le Havre, France Croatian France Mijo Novoselao 11 Dec 1907 abt 1882 Male Rijndam Mijo Novoselao 11 Dec 1907 abt 1882 Male Rijndam Mijo Novoselao 11 Dec 1907 abt 1882 Male Rijndam Mijo Novoselec 4 Sep 1907 abt 1877 Male Bremen Croatian Bremen Mijo Novoselec 8 Dec 1910 abt 1877 Male Bremen Croatian Main Good Luck with your search. Dave

Nina, Don't know if this is any help. I was born and raised in Steelton Penna and knew a Novosel family there. My mother was born in Lovic, Croatia which is in Karlovac Zupanja (County) and about 25 km from the city of Karlovac . She was born in 1895 and her godparents were Pavao and Ana Novosel. I have looked at birth records from Pribic (the parish where she was baptized) and see the name Novosel in those church records often. I glanced through the Ellis island list and saw a number of Mijo Novosels listed but none that would have been born in 1882 and arrived in 1901. If Mijo was naturalized it's possible that he would have had to produce a birth/baptism certificate that would have his parents name. Also, there was a Croatian family in our neighborhood that spelled their name SHUMAN. Good luck, Tony Zugay On Feb 19, 2007, at 11:14 AM, L. Novasel wrote: > Mijo Novosel was born Sept.20,1882 in Karlovac, Croatia. He arrived in > America, Ellis island, September 1, 1901 via Le Havre. Family documents > list Karlovac as his town of origin. Do not know if that reference is > to the town or perhaps the county. We have ordered the Karlovac > Catholic parish records from FHC in hopes of finding his parents, > grandparents. He and a male sibling were raised by an uncle in > Karlovac, of whom we have no information. Mijo's 1912 marriage license > notes his mother's surname as Schumann, likely a misspelling. Can > anyone suggest possible Croatian/ Karlovaki surnames that might sound > like Schumann to an American clerk? > > In preparing for the transcriptions from the church books, is there a > Karlovac Family Register that would help keep us on the right path? > Also, is there a local genealogy or history association that might be > able to do lookups and provide historical background? Is there an > online list of cemetery sites in this town? > > Nina > > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > CROATIA-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the > quotes in the subject and the body of the message >