Sorry, all. Since my post, apparently the item has been withdrawn from ebay. Arghh... Don't know why they did that. It was a Stanford U. yearbook that belonged to Martin FRANICH. Patty -----Original Message----- From: croatia-bounces@rootsweb.com [mailto:croatia-bounces@rootsweb.com] On Behalf Of Robert Jerin Sent: Saturday, March 17, 2007 4:12 PM To: croatia@rootsweb.com Subject: Re: [CROATIA] Martin Franich of Watsonville Patty, What are you directing us to? I see nothing about FRANICH at the link you gave Robert Patty Milich <1teacup@sbcglobal.net> wrote: http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem ADME:B:SS:US:1> &item=290095117717&ssPageName=ADME:B:SS:US:1 I have no interest in this item, but am posting this information because Martin Franich was a significant Croatian-American businessman in Watsonville and it's a really singular item. I hope someone will find it of interest. (How many people would love to find something like this for their relatives?) Patty Milich ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to CROATIA-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message "There is no distinctly native American criminal class except those in Washington DC." Barry Goldwater ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to CROATIA-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message

Patty, What are you directing us to? I see nothing about FRANICH at the link you gave Robert Patty Milich <1teacup@sbcglobal.net> wrote: http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem ADME:B:SS:US:1> &item=290095117717&ssPageName=ADME:B:SS:US:1 I have no interest in this item, but am posting this information because Martin Franich was a significant Croatian-American businessman in Watsonville and it's a really singular item. I hope someone will find it of interest. (How many people would love to find something like this for their relatives?) Patty Milich ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to CROATIA-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message "There is no distinctly native American criminal class except those in Washington DC." Barry Goldwater

http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem <http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=290095117717&ssPageName= ADME:B:SS:US:1> &item=290095117717&ssPageName=ADME:B:SS:US:1 I have no interest in this item, but am posting this information because Martin Franich was a significant Croatian-American businessman in Watsonville and it's a really singular item. I hope someone will find it of interest. (How many people would love to find something like this for their relatives?) Patty Milich

Those census records would be of interest to me, too, as I cannot get information on my grandmother's family in Dalj. I am stuck at Elizabeth Postic, my great grandmother and I know she had brothers and some of their children came to America, but I can't make any connections. Also, Andrew Djuricic had a brother named Georg and I can't get any further than that. I know that Georg was married and that is it. I seldom see anything about Dalj. I had a Lionel Postic contact me by email and we think we are related, but we can't make the connection. Margaret Buza in Mesa, AZ ----- Original Message ----- From: "Kurt McCrary" <kurtmccrary@yahoo.com> To: <croatia@rootsweb.com> Sent: Saturday, March 10, 2007 9:14 AM Subject: [CROATIA] Croatia Census look up please > Hello List. > Does any one have any census's for Croatia? > >>From what I understand, there have been fourteen census's since 1857 >>covering the area of present day Croatia. These have occurred in 1857 >>which was a agricultural census,(then after Srem / Syrmia was annexed to >>Croatia in 1860,) 1869, 1880, 1900, 1910, 1921, 1931, 1948, 1953, 1961, >>1971, 1981, and 1991. I have heard that Vukovar also had a 1940? Census. >>Did the county districts have there own separate census at different >>times? I checked the LDS FHC and do not see any Census records for Croatia >>are there plans to obtain these records or is Croatia not letting them be >>reproduced? If copies of the microfilmed Census records can be purchased >>how much are they? > > Also, when the Eltz family owned or controlled Vukovar and freed the > serfs in 1848, it was stated there property was cut by 2 / 3rds. Beyond > doing the math. how do I find out how large Vukovar was? Are there any > maps that show the difference? > > Thank You > Best regards > Kurt > > > --------------------------------- > Expecting? Get great news right away with email Auto-Check. > Try the Yahoo! Mail Beta. > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > CROATIA-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the > quotes in the subject and the body of the message >

Hello List. Does any one have any census's for Croatia? >From what I understand, there have been fourteen census's since 1857 covering the area of present day Croatia. These have occurred in 1857 which was a agricultural census,(then after Srem / Syrmia was annexed to Croatia in 1860,) 1869, 1880, 1900, 1910, 1921, 1931, 1948, 1953, 1961, 1971, 1981, and 1991. I have heard that Vukovar also had a 1940? Census. Did the county districts have there own separate census at different times? I checked the LDS FHC and do not see any Census records for Croatia are there plans to obtain these records or is Croatia not letting them be reproduced? If copies of the microfilmed Census records can be purchased how much are they? Also, when the Eltz family owned or controlled Vukovar and freed the serfs in 1848, it was stated there property was cut by 2 / 3rds. Beyond doing the math. how do I find out how large Vukovar was? Are there any maps that show the difference? Thank You Best regards Kurt --------------------------------- Expecting? Get great news right away with email Auto-Check. Try the Yahoo! Mail Beta.

Thanks, I guess there are many names with the nickname of Mike. There are many nicknames for Margaret, so this can all make some sense. My grandfather was Slovenian, my dad's father, and he is listed as Mika in the records. His sister was called Mary here, but she is listed as Mica in the Ellis Island records. Margaret ----- Original Message ----- From: "william herman" <waherman61@yahoo.com> To: "Croatia" <croatia@rootsweb.com> Sent: Friday, March 02, 2007 7:55 AM Subject: Re: [CROATIA] Rutalj from Ruduc,Panjkovich from Raduc & Rukavina from Gospich > Hello Margaret I had someone translate a > headstone that was written in Serbian. The headstone > was for Mike's young son. On the bottom of the > headstone it said son of Mile and. So it looks like in > this case Mike equals Mile. > > Thanks > Bill H. > --- Jerome Buza <jeromebuza@cox.net> wrote: > >> Could this also be Miodrag. I have a Serbian friend >> that is called Mike or >> Mickey and his name is really Miodrag >> Margaret >> ----- Original Message ----- >> From: <davem9759@juno.com> >> To: <croatia@rootsweb.com> >> Sent: Saturday, February 24, 2007 4:44 PM >> Subject: Re: [CROATIA] Rutalj from Ruduc,Panjkovich >> from Raduc & Rukavina >> from Gospich >> >> >> > Would that have been listed as Mijo, or Mijhail >> for Mike? >> > Just wondering. >> > >> > Dave >> > >> > ------------------------------- >> > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email >> to >> > CROATIA-request@rootsweb.com with the word >> 'unsubscribe' without the >> > quotes in the subject and the body of the message >> > >> >> >> ------------------------------- >> To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email >> to CROATIA-request@rootsweb.com with the word >> 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and >> the body of the message >> > > > > > ____________________________________________________________________________________ > The fish are biting. > Get more visitors on your site using Yahoo! Search Marketing. > http://searchmarketing.yahoo.com/arp/sponsoredsearch_v2.php > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > CROATIA-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the > quotes in the subject and the body of the message

Hello Margaret I had someone translate a headstone that was written in Serbian. The headstone was for Mike's young son. On the bottom of the headstone it said son of Mile and. So it looks like in this case Mike equals Mile. Thanks Bill H. --- Jerome Buza <jeromebuza@cox.net> wrote: > Could this also be Miodrag. I have a Serbian friend > that is called Mike or > Mickey and his name is really Miodrag > Margaret > ----- Original Message ----- > From: <davem9759@juno.com> > To: <croatia@rootsweb.com> > Sent: Saturday, February 24, 2007 4:44 PM > Subject: Re: [CROATIA] Rutalj from Ruduc,Panjkovich > from Raduc & Rukavina > from Gospich > > > > Would that have been listed as Mijo, or Mijhail > for Mike? > > Just wondering. > > > > Dave > > > > ------------------------------- > > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email > to > > CROATIA-request@rootsweb.com with the word > 'unsubscribe' without the > > quotes in the subject and the body of the message > > > > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email > to CROATIA-request@rootsweb.com with the word > 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and > the body of the message > ____________________________________________________________________________________ The fish are biting. Get more visitors on your site using Yahoo! Search Marketing. http://searchmarketing.yahoo.com/arp/sponsoredsearch_v2.php

Magarac sounds so much like Madjarac [Hungarian], that a lot of people must have had fun with it. Don ----- Original Message ----- From: "Robert Jerin" <rjerin26@yahoo.com> To: <croatia@rootsweb.com> Sent: Sunday, February 25, 2007 4:14 PM Subject: Re: [CROATIA] Magarac :-) CROATIA Digest, Vol 2, Issue 28 >I believe it would be ja se ti... i has the sound of long e. > > hummerpleshe <hummerpleshe@comcast.net> wrote: that should be "jes te > magarac" > > On Feb 25, 2007, at 2:57 PM, hummerpleshe wrote: > >> And then there was "Je te magarac" which I will swear my father >> explained to me as an under the breath curse of a Magyar (Hungarian) >> oppressor. Like they assumed the man would assume they meant "magyar" >> but in reality they were being cursed and letting off a little steam >> :-) >> On Feb 21, 2007, at 2:20 PM, Robert Jerin wrote: >> >>> Andrija, >>> >>> Not that they can't affored vowels... the R serves the function of a >>> vowel when it is adjacent to 2 consonants... I love that part of the >>> language... very phonetic... very practical...it is the cases that >>> drive me crazy. I guess your father left later and the travel changed >>> for instance most Croatians would use Bremen but then after 1913 (WW I >>> effected things) other ports incl. Liverpool were used more >>> frequently... the burro is called magarac in Croatian... and in case >>> it is not known the American Folk Hero Joe Magarac, of Pittsburgh >>> Steel worker fame, was most likely taken from the Croatian word >>> magarac Thus my friend Joe Matesich from Pittsburgh has a long >>> running campaign to recruit people into the Magarac Club he even had >>> shirts made with the mural of Joe Magarac from the U. of Pittsburgh >>> >>> >>> http://vrcoll.fa.pitt.edu/uag/Past-Exhibitions/2000_Uwe_Wittwer/ >>> gropper.jpg >>> >>> ... as he meets new Croatian immigrants he will ask ti si >>> magarac?... of course they respond ni sam magarac ! until they hear >>> the story of this hard working Croatian... and then they smile and say >>> ja sam magarac! >>> >>> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Joe_Magarac >>> >>> Robert >>> >>> Andrija > --------------------------------- > wrote: >>> My fahter's parents, who lived in Lovrec, Imotski, traveled from >>> Trieste. I guess it was closer - just a burro ride down the mountain >>> to the Adriadic, then to Split, and by train to Trieste (which they >>> still call "Trst.) I guess they can't afford vowels. >>> >>> Andrija >>> >>> -----Original Message----- >>>> From: "Donald A. Martinich" >>>> Sent: Feb 20, 2007 6:54 PM >>>> To: croatia@rootsweb.com >>>> Subject: Re: [CROATIA] CROATIA Digest, Vol 2, Issue 28 >>>> >>>>> >>>>> Message: 2 >>>>> Date: Tue, 20 Feb 2007 13:56:40 -0800 >>>>> From: "L. Novasel" >>>>> Subject: Re: [CROATIA] NOVOSEL in Karlovac >>>>> To: Andrija >>> --------------------------------- >>> , croatia@rootsweb.com >>>>> Message-ID: <3EAE692A-C12D-11DB-97E5-000A95D1E4BE@mindspring.com> >>>>> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed >>>>> >>>>> Andrija, >>>>> As a newcomer to Croatian research I'm only assuming that the same >>>>> context applies there as elsewhere in Europe. >>>>> Le Havre was a pivotal trading center in the years our ancestors >>>>> filed >>>>> for emigration. I understand there was a circular route, making >>>>> optimum >>>>> use of the ships. Cotton leaving from New Orleans for instance was >>>>> routed to London where the cargo was unloaded. The ship then loaded >>>>> trade goods destined for Le Havre, unloaded again, and took aboard >>>>> human cargo bound for America, completing the trade circle for the >>>>> shipping company. >>>>> >>>>> The contractor or travel organizer went into the villages, signed up >>>>> our emigrating great grandmothers and grandfathers, then escorted >>>>> them >>>>> to the shipper's home port, with whom he in turn had contracted. My >>>>> guess is that they traveled up the rivers avoiding trouble spots in >>>>> the >>>>> years preceding the war. Interesting Trieste wasn't utilized, but >>>>> hazarding another guess, there was most likely not trade material in >>>>> sufficient quantity to make the route profitable. Presumably the >>>>> political- economic instability would have guaranteed that. Just >>>>> speculation though. >>>>> >>>>> Nina >>>> >>>> Actually, Trieste was a port of embarkation. I just don't think it >>>> had anywhere the tonnage that came in and out of Le Havre. My father >>>> and his family arrived at Ellis Island on the SS Martha Washington, >>>> which was operated out of Trieste by Unione Austriaca from 1908 to >>>> 1914. After WW1, she transferred to the Italian owned Cosulich >>>> Lines, also of Trieste, and continued the New York run through the >>>> 20's. Incidentally, the Cosulich family originated in Mali Losinj. >>>> >>>> Don >>>> >>>> ------------------------------- >>>> To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to >>>> CROATIA-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the >>>> quotes in the subject and the body of the message >>> >>> >>> ------------------------------- >>> To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to >>> CROATIA-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the >>> quotes in the subject and the body of the message >>> >>> >>> >>> "Civilization is the progress toward a society of privacy. The >>> savage's whole existence is public, ruled by the laws of his tribe. >>> Civilization is the process of setting man free from men." Ayn Rand >>> 1905-1982 >>> >>> >>> >>> ------------------------------- >>> To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to >>> CROATIA-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the >>> quotes in the subject and the body of the message >>> >> >> >> ------------------------------- >> To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to >> CROATIA-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the >> quotes in the subject and the body of the message >> > > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > CROATIA-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the > quotes in the subject and the body of the message > > > > "There is no distinctly native American criminal class except Washington > DC." > Barry Goldwater > > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > CROATIA-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the > quotes in the subject and the body of the message >

Could this also be Miodrag. I have a Serbian friend that is called Mike or Mickey and his name is really Miodrag Margaret ----- Original Message ----- From: <davem9759@juno.com> To: <croatia@rootsweb.com> Sent: Saturday, February 24, 2007 4:44 PM Subject: Re: [CROATIA] Rutalj from Ruduc,Panjkovich from Raduc & Rukavina from Gospich > Would that have been listed as Mijo, or Mijhail for Mike? > Just wondering. > > Dave > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > CROATIA-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the > quotes in the subject and the body of the message >

Hi, listers, A while back Patty Elich posted about her Elich family. I forwarded it to my cousin in Croatia and this is what I got back today: Dear Edie , Yours Grandmother Kate/Kata , my Grandfather Ivan and Patty's Grandfather Nikola were all brothers and sisters , as our Great Gradndfather ( from all of us ) was Anton Ilic and he had six children , Nikola , Jakov , Ivan, Tonka , Kata and Anka. They also had twin boys my mother told me. In this list, Kata/Kate was my grandmother whom I never got to meet because she died before I was born, but I met her sister Anka and she lived in Portland, OR also. edie sando1@cox.net

that should be "jes te magarac" On Feb 25, 2007, at 2:57 PM, hummerpleshe wrote: > And then there was "Je te magarac" which I will swear my father > explained to me as an under the breath curse of a Magyar (Hungarian) > oppressor. Like they assumed the man would assume they meant "magyar" > but in reality they were being cursed and letting off a little steam > :-) > On Feb 21, 2007, at 2:20 PM, Robert Jerin wrote: > >> Andrija, >> >> Not that they can't affored vowels... the R serves the function of a >> vowel when it is adjacent to 2 consonants... I love that part of the >> language... very phonetic... very practical...it is the cases that >> drive me crazy. I guess your father left later and the travel changed >> for instance most Croatians would use Bremen but then after 1913 (WW I >> effected things) other ports incl. Liverpool were used more >> frequently... the burro is called magarac in Croatian... and in case >> it is not known the American Folk Hero Joe Magarac, of Pittsburgh >> Steel worker fame, was most likely taken from the Croatian word >> magarac Thus my friend Joe Matesich from Pittsburgh has a long >> running campaign to recruit people into the Magarac Club he even had >> shirts made with the mural of Joe Magarac from the U. of Pittsburgh >> >> >> http://vrcoll.fa.pitt.edu/uag/Past-Exhibitions/2000_Uwe_Wittwer/ >> gropper.jpg >> >> ... as he meets new Croatian immigrants he will ask ti si >> magarac?... of course they respond ni sam magarac ! until they hear >> the story of this hard working Croatian... and then they smile and say >> ja sam magarac! >> >> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Joe_Magarac >> >> Robert >> >> Andrija <hrvat@earthlink.net> wrote: >> My fahter's parents, who lived in Lovrec, Imotski, traveled from >> Trieste. I guess it was closer - just a burro ride down the mountain >> to the Adriadic, then to Split, and by train to Trieste (which they >> still call "Trst.) I guess they can't afford vowels. >> >> Andrija >> >> -----Original Message----- >>> From: "Donald A. Martinich" >>> Sent: Feb 20, 2007 6:54 PM >>> To: croatia@rootsweb.com >>> Subject: Re: [CROATIA] CROATIA Digest, Vol 2, Issue 28 >>> >>>> >>>> Message: 2 >>>> Date: Tue, 20 Feb 2007 13:56:40 -0800 >>>> From: "L. Novasel" >>>> Subject: Re: [CROATIA] NOVOSEL in Karlovac >>>> To: Andrija >> --------------------------------- >> , croatia@rootsweb.com >>>> Message-ID: <3EAE692A-C12D-11DB-97E5-000A95D1E4BE@mindspring.com> >>>> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed >>>> >>>> Andrija, >>>> As a newcomer to Croatian research I'm only assuming that the same >>>> context applies there as elsewhere in Europe. >>>> Le Havre was a pivotal trading center in the years our ancestors >>>> filed >>>> for emigration. I understand there was a circular route, making >>>> optimum >>>> use of the ships. Cotton leaving from New Orleans for instance was >>>> routed to London where the cargo was unloaded. The ship then loaded >>>> trade goods destined for Le Havre, unloaded again, and took aboard >>>> human cargo bound for America, completing the trade circle for the >>>> shipping company. >>>> >>>> The contractor or travel organizer went into the villages, signed up >>>> our emigrating great grandmothers and grandfathers, then escorted >>>> them >>>> to the shipper's home port, with whom he in turn had contracted. My >>>> guess is that they traveled up the rivers avoiding trouble spots in >>>> the >>>> years preceding the war. Interesting Trieste wasn't utilized, but >>>> hazarding another guess, there was most likely not trade material in >>>> sufficient quantity to make the route profitable. Presumably the >>>> political- economic instability would have guaranteed that. Just >>>> speculation though. >>>> >>>> Nina >>> >>> Actually, Trieste was a port of embarkation. I just don't think it >>> had anywhere the tonnage that came in and out of Le Havre. My father >>> and his family arrived at Ellis Island on the SS Martha Washington, >>> which was operated out of Trieste by Unione Austriaca from 1908 to >>> 1914. After WW1, she transferred to the Italian owned Cosulich >>> Lines, also of Trieste, and continued the New York run through the >>> 20's. Incidentally, the Cosulich family originated in Mali Losinj. >>> >>> Don >>> >>> ------------------------------- >>> To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to >>> CROATIA-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the >>> quotes in the subject and the body of the message >> >> >> ------------------------------- >> To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to >> CROATIA-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the >> quotes in the subject and the body of the message >> >> >> >> "Civilization is the progress toward a society of privacy. The >> savage's whole existence is public, ruled by the laws of his tribe. >> Civilization is the process of setting man free from men." Ayn Rand >> 1905-1982 >> >> >> >> ------------------------------- >> To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to >> CROATIA-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the >> quotes in the subject and the body of the message >> > > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > CROATIA-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the > quotes in the subject and the body of the message >

And then there was "Je te magarac" which I will swear my father explained to me as an under the breath curse of a Magyar (Hungarian) oppressor. Like they assumed the man would assume they meant "magyar" but in reality they were being cursed and letting off a little steam :-) On Feb 21, 2007, at 2:20 PM, Robert Jerin wrote: > Andrija, > > Not that they can't affored vowels... the R serves the function of a > vowel when it is adjacent to 2 consonants... I love that part of the > language... very phonetic... very practical...it is the cases that > drive me crazy. I guess your father left later and the travel changed > for instance most Croatians would use Bremen but then after 1913 (WW I > effected things) other ports incl. Liverpool were used more > frequently... the burro is called magarac in Croatian... and in case > it is not known the American Folk Hero Joe Magarac, of Pittsburgh > Steel worker fame, was most likely taken from the Croatian word > magarac Thus my friend Joe Matesich from Pittsburgh has a long > running campaign to recruit people into the Magarac Club he even had > shirts made with the mural of Joe Magarac from the U. of Pittsburgh > > > http://vrcoll.fa.pitt.edu/uag/Past-Exhibitions/2000_Uwe_Wittwer/ > gropper.jpg > > ... as he meets new Croatian immigrants he will ask ti si > magarac?... of course they respond ni sam magarac ! until they hear > the story of this hard working Croatian... and then they smile and say > ja sam magarac! > > http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Joe_Magarac > > Robert > > Andrija <hrvat@earthlink.net> wrote: > My fahter's parents, who lived in Lovrec, Imotski, traveled from > Trieste. I guess it was closer - just a burro ride down the mountain > to the Adriadic, then to Split, and by train to Trieste (which they > still call "Trst.) I guess they can't afford vowels. > > Andrija > > -----Original Message----- >> From: "Donald A. Martinich" >> Sent: Feb 20, 2007 6:54 PM >> To: croatia@rootsweb.com >> Subject: Re: [CROATIA] CROATIA Digest, Vol 2, Issue 28 >> >>> >>> Message: 2 >>> Date: Tue, 20 Feb 2007 13:56:40 -0800 >>> From: "L. Novasel" >>> Subject: Re: [CROATIA] NOVOSEL in Karlovac >>> To: Andrija > --------------------------------- > , croatia@rootsweb.com >>> Message-ID: <3EAE692A-C12D-11DB-97E5-000A95D1E4BE@mindspring.com> >>> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed >>> >>> Andrija, >>> As a newcomer to Croatian research I'm only assuming that the same >>> context applies there as elsewhere in Europe. >>> Le Havre was a pivotal trading center in the years our ancestors >>> filed >>> for emigration. I understand there was a circular route, making >>> optimum >>> use of the ships. Cotton leaving from New Orleans for instance was >>> routed to London where the cargo was unloaded. The ship then loaded >>> trade goods destined for Le Havre, unloaded again, and took aboard >>> human cargo bound for America, completing the trade circle for the >>> shipping company. >>> >>> The contractor or travel organizer went into the villages, signed up >>> our emigrating great grandmothers and grandfathers, then escorted >>> them >>> to the shipper's home port, with whom he in turn had contracted. My >>> guess is that they traveled up the rivers avoiding trouble spots in >>> the >>> years preceding the war. Interesting Trieste wasn't utilized, but >>> hazarding another guess, there was most likely not trade material in >>> sufficient quantity to make the route profitable. Presumably the >>> political- economic instability would have guaranteed that. Just >>> speculation though. >>> >>> Nina >> >> Actually, Trieste was a port of embarkation. I just don't think it >> had anywhere the tonnage that came in and out of Le Havre. My father >> and his family arrived at Ellis Island on the SS Martha Washington, >> which was operated out of Trieste by Unione Austriaca from 1908 to >> 1914. After WW1, she transferred to the Italian owned Cosulich >> Lines, also of Trieste, and continued the New York run through the >> 20's. Incidentally, the Cosulich family originated in Mali Losinj. >> >> Don >> >> ------------------------------- >> To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to >> CROATIA-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the >> quotes in the subject and the body of the message > > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > CROATIA-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the > quotes in the subject and the body of the message > > > > "Civilization is the progress toward a society of privacy. The > savage's whole existence is public, ruled by the laws of his tribe. > Civilization is the process of setting man free from men." Ayn Rand > 1905-1982 > > > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > CROATIA-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the > quotes in the subject and the body of the message >

I believe it would be ja se ti... i has the sound of long e. hummerpleshe <hummerpleshe@comcast.net> wrote: that should be "jes te magarac" On Feb 25, 2007, at 2:57 PM, hummerpleshe wrote: > And then there was "Je te magarac" which I will swear my father > explained to me as an under the breath curse of a Magyar (Hungarian) > oppressor. Like they assumed the man would assume they meant "magyar" > but in reality they were being cursed and letting off a little steam > :-) > On Feb 21, 2007, at 2:20 PM, Robert Jerin wrote: > >> Andrija, >> >> Not that they can't affored vowels... the R serves the function of a >> vowel when it is adjacent to 2 consonants... I love that part of the >> language... very phonetic... very practical...it is the cases that >> drive me crazy. I guess your father left later and the travel changed >> for instance most Croatians would use Bremen but then after 1913 (WW I >> effected things) other ports incl. Liverpool were used more >> frequently... the burro is called magarac in Croatian... and in case >> it is not known the American Folk Hero Joe Magarac, of Pittsburgh >> Steel worker fame, was most likely taken from the Croatian word >> magarac Thus my friend Joe Matesich from Pittsburgh has a long >> running campaign to recruit people into the Magarac Club he even had >> shirts made with the mural of Joe Magarac from the U. of Pittsburgh >> >> >> http://vrcoll.fa.pitt.edu/uag/Past-Exhibitions/2000_Uwe_Wittwer/ >> gropper.jpg >> >> ... as he meets new Croatian immigrants he will ask ti si >> magarac?... of course they respond ni sam magarac ! until they hear >> the story of this hard working Croatian... and then they smile and say >> ja sam magarac! >> >> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Joe_Magarac >> >> Robert >> >> Andrija --------------------------------- wrote: >> My fahter's parents, who lived in Lovrec, Imotski, traveled from >> Trieste. I guess it was closer - just a burro ride down the mountain >> to the Adriadic, then to Split, and by train to Trieste (which they >> still call "Trst.) I guess they can't afford vowels. >> >> Andrija >> >> -----Original Message----- >>> From: "Donald A. Martinich" >>> Sent: Feb 20, 2007 6:54 PM >>> To: croatia@rootsweb.com >>> Subject: Re: [CROATIA] CROATIA Digest, Vol 2, Issue 28 >>> >>>> >>>> Message: 2 >>>> Date: Tue, 20 Feb 2007 13:56:40 -0800 >>>> From: "L. Novasel" >>>> Subject: Re: [CROATIA] NOVOSEL in Karlovac >>>> To: Andrija >> --------------------------------- >> , croatia@rootsweb.com >>>> Message-ID: <3EAE692A-C12D-11DB-97E5-000A95D1E4BE@mindspring.com> >>>> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed >>>> >>>> Andrija, >>>> As a newcomer to Croatian research I'm only assuming that the same >>>> context applies there as elsewhere in Europe. >>>> Le Havre was a pivotal trading center in the years our ancestors >>>> filed >>>> for emigration. I understand there was a circular route, making >>>> optimum >>>> use of the ships. Cotton leaving from New Orleans for instance was >>>> routed to London where the cargo was unloaded. The ship then loaded >>>> trade goods destined for Le Havre, unloaded again, and took aboard >>>> human cargo bound for America, completing the trade circle for the >>>> shipping company. >>>> >>>> The contractor or travel organizer went into the villages, signed up >>>> our emigrating great grandmothers and grandfathers, then escorted >>>> them >>>> to the shipper's home port, with whom he in turn had contracted. My >>>> guess is that they traveled up the rivers avoiding trouble spots in >>>> the >>>> years preceding the war. Interesting Trieste wasn't utilized, but >>>> hazarding another guess, there was most likely not trade material in >>>> sufficient quantity to make the route profitable. Presumably the >>>> political- economic instability would have guaranteed that. Just >>>> speculation though. >>>> >>>> Nina >>> >>> Actually, Trieste was a port of embarkation. I just don't think it >>> had anywhere the tonnage that came in and out of Le Havre. My father >>> and his family arrived at Ellis Island on the SS Martha Washington, >>> which was operated out of Trieste by Unione Austriaca from 1908 to >>> 1914. After WW1, she transferred to the Italian owned Cosulich >>> Lines, also of Trieste, and continued the New York run through the >>> 20's. Incidentally, the Cosulich family originated in Mali Losinj. >>> >>> Don >>> >>> ------------------------------- >>> To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to >>> CROATIA-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the >>> quotes in the subject and the body of the message >> >> >> ------------------------------- >> To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to >> CROATIA-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the >> quotes in the subject and the body of the message >> >> >> >> "Civilization is the progress toward a society of privacy. The >> savage's whole existence is public, ruled by the laws of his tribe. >> Civilization is the process of setting man free from men." Ayn Rand >> 1905-1982 >> >> >> >> ------------------------------- >> To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to >> CROATIA-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the >> quotes in the subject and the body of the message >> > > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > CROATIA-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the > quotes in the subject and the body of the message > ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to CROATIA-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message "There is no distinctly native American criminal class except Washington DC." Barry Goldwater

Would that have been listed as Mijo, or Mijhail for Mike? Just wondering. Dave

Hello Dave They are both possibilities. I e-mailed Mike's daughter but I think all she knew him as was Mike. Thanks Bill H. --- "davem9759@juno.com" <davem9759@juno.com> wrote: > Would that have been listed as Mijo, or Mijhail for > Mike? > Just wondering. > > Dave > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email > to CROATIA-request@rootsweb.com with the word > 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and > the body of the message > ____________________________________________________________________________________ Never miss an email again! Yahoo! Toolbar alerts you the instant new Mail arrives. http://tools.search.yahoo.com/toolbar/features/mail/

Hello Robert THANKS. This adds allot to the little information I have. A friend told me about Rade leaving Germany on 2 Dec 1905 but I didn't know how to access the records in Germany for 1905. I checked the Stephen Morse web site for the three of them but only found Anna. I apparently didn't try enough ways of spelling Rutalj and Panjkovich. Mike's daughter is still living in Mayville, I'll have to ask her if her father had another name because Mike isn't a Croatian name. There religion was Serbian Orthodox. There was no Serbian Orthodox Church in Mayville so someone had to come from Milwaukee (about 50 miles)to baptize them. There were and still are allot of Croatian people in Mayville. Mayville had the first iron mine and mill in Wisconsin in 1848. The Croatian people came to work in the mine and mill. Were trying to translate some Serbian writing on some headstones. Is there any place I could get the translation done. I have a picture taken with my digital camera. Thanks Again Bill H. --- Robert Jerin <rjerin26@yahoo.com> wrote: > You are correct about Rade's year of arrival. Below > is info from the Port of Departure records from > Hamburg Germany, which gives his former residence as > Medak > > Rade RUTALJ Departed 2 Dec 1905 birthdate about > 1889 ports visited by the ship Dover, Bologne, New > York Ship Pretoria > > Using Stephen Morse's One Step Ellis > Island search for anyone arriving 1905 aboard the > Pretoria finds his name mistranscribed as Rade > BUTALY The manifest almost looks like a B instead > of a R... he is traveling with Marko CELIC age 48 > who was from Rudac... so Rudac may be where the > parish was located but it would appear he was from > Medak. Destination to an Uncle DEJANOVIC at > Jolliet, IL > > In regards to Morse's web page... it is the ONLY > way to go! Very user friendly and allows a plethera > of ways to search. > > http://www.jewishgen.org/databases/eidb/ellis.html > > Mike would not be a name found in Croatia, perhaps > he was Mihalj, Mile, Milan, Milos, etc. > > There are a few Mile (mistranscribed as Male in a > couple of cases) who had approximate birthdates > close to your "suspected" birth year for Mike... and > none listed neither Rudac nor Gospic as their former > residence But there is someone found at Ellis > Island listed as Jso (Iso) PANJKVIC arr Apr 1911 > from Raduc, age 17... destination Joliett, IL his > next of kin at Rudac is listed as his mother > Smiljana... which probably meant that his father had > died. > > Have you looked at the manifest for Anna RUKAVINA > that you mentioned? It states that she was from > Kuniza. There are 2 places by that name near Gospic, > one to the SW of Gospic and one to the NE of Gospic. > > However I believe she may be from the one located > SW of Gospic which is called Kaniža Gospiæka where > the phone book lists RUKAVINA ... which is a common > name in that part of Croatia... the root of the > name is ruka.... meaning arm. > > > http://www.tportal.hr/imenik/map.dll/image?l=4&x=2409092&y=4932730&cx=2409092&cy=4932730&w=640&h=410 > > LDS Church Family History Center has microfilm > church records for Gospic both Roman Catholic and > Orhodox and for Medak and Raduc they have Orthodox > records... only problem is they only go to 1850s. > > Note, they came from Croatia which was a Kingdom > under the old Habsburg Empire aka Austria Hungary. > > Robert Jerin > Croatian Heritage Museum > Cleveland Ohio > > william herman <waherman61@yahoo.com> wrote: > I'm looking for some of my relatives that came > from > the Austrian-Hungarian Empire (Croatia) in the early > 1900's. They came to Mayville Wisconsin. > > Rade Rutalj born 12 Feb 1889 in Ruduc. I don't know > when he came to the US but he may of came in 1905. > > Mike Panjkovich born 15 March 1892 in either Ruduc > or > Gospich. Mike came to the US in 1911. > > Anna Rukavina born 25 Jul 1891 in Gospich. She came > to > the US on 12 Apr 1912 aboard the SS La Touraline > from > Le Havre. She married Rade Rutalj in 1914 in > Mayville > Wisconsin. Rade died on 29 Jun 1921 and on 20 Jan > 1923 > Anna married Mike Panjkovich. > > Thank You > > Bill H. > > > > ____________________________________________________________________________________ > Need a quick answer? Get one in minutes from people > who know. > Ask your question on www.Answers.yahoo.com > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email > to CROATIA-request@rootsweb.com with the word > 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and > the body of the message > > > > > "Civilization is the progress toward a society of > privacy. The savage's whole existence is public, > ruled by the laws of his tribe. Civilization is the > process of setting man free from men." Ayn Rand > 1905-1982 > > > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email > to CROATIA-request@rootsweb.com with the word > 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and > the body of the message > ____________________________________________________________________________________ The fish are biting. Get more visitors on your site using Yahoo! Search Marketing. http://searchmarketing.yahoo.com/arp/sponsoredsearch_v2.php

You are correct about Rade's year of arrival. Below is info from the Port of Departure records from Hamburg Germany, which gives his former residence as Medak Rade RUTALJ Departed 2 Dec 1905 birthdate about 1889 ports visited by the ship Dover, Bologne, New York Ship Pretoria Using Stephen Morse's One Step Ellis Island search for anyone arriving 1905 aboard the Pretoria finds his name mistranscribed as Rade BUTALY The manifest almost looks like a B instead of a R... he is traveling with Marko CELIC age 48 who was from Rudac... so Rudac may be where the parish was located but it would appear he was from Medak. Destination to an Uncle DEJANOVIC at Jolliet, IL In regards to Morse's web page... it is the ONLY way to go! Very user friendly and allows a plethera of ways to search. http://www.jewishgen.org/databases/eidb/ellis.html Mike would not be a name found in Croatia, perhaps he was Mihalj, Mile, Milan, Milos, etc. There are a few Mile (mistranscribed as Male in a couple of cases) who had approximate birthdates close to your "suspected" birth year for Mike... and none listed neither Rudac nor Gospic as their former residence But there is someone found at Ellis Island listed as Jso (Iso) PANJKVIC arr Apr 1911 from Raduc, age 17... destination Joliett, IL his next of kin at Rudac is listed as his mother Smiljana... which probably meant that his father had died. Have you looked at the manifest for Anna RUKAVINA that you mentioned? It states that she was from Kuniza. There are 2 places by that name near Gospic, one to the SW of Gospic and one to the NE of Gospic. However I believe she may be from the one located SW of Gospic which is called Kaniža Gospiæka where the phone book lists RUKAVINA ... which is a common name in that part of Croatia... the root of the name is ruka.... meaning arm. http://www.tportal.hr/imenik/map.dll/image?l=4&x=2409092&y=4932730&cx=2409092&cy=4932730&w=640&h=410 LDS Church Family History Center has microfilm church records for Gospic both Roman Catholic and Orhodox and for Medak and Raduc they have Orthodox records... only problem is they only go to 1850s. Note, they came from Croatia which was a Kingdom under the old Habsburg Empire aka Austria Hungary. Robert Jerin Croatian Heritage Museum Cleveland Ohio william herman <waherman61@yahoo.com> wrote: I'm looking for some of my relatives that came from the Austrian-Hungarian Empire (Croatia) in the early 1900's. They came to Mayville Wisconsin. Rade Rutalj born 12 Feb 1889 in Ruduc. I don't know when he came to the US but he may of came in 1905. Mike Panjkovich born 15 March 1892 in either Ruduc or Gospich. Mike came to the US in 1911. Anna Rukavina born 25 Jul 1891 in Gospich. She came to the US on 12 Apr 1912 aboard the SS La Touraline from Le Havre. She married Rade Rutalj in 1914 in Mayville Wisconsin. Rade died on 29 Jun 1921 and on 20 Jan 1923 Anna married Mike Panjkovich. Thank You Bill H. ____________________________________________________________________________________ Need a quick answer? Get one in minutes from people who know. Ask your question on www.Answers.yahoo.com ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to CROATIA-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message "Civilization is the progress toward a society of privacy. The savage's whole existence is public, ruled by the laws of his tribe. Civilization is the process of setting man free from men." Ayn Rand 1905-1982

I'm looking for some of my relatives that came from the Austrian-Hungarian Empire (Croatia) in the early 1900's. They came to Mayville Wisconsin. Rade Rutalj born 12 Feb 1889 in Ruduc. I don't know when he came to the US but he may of came in 1905. Mike Panjkovich born 15 March 1892 in either Ruduc or Gospich. Mike came to the US in 1911. Anna Rukavina born 25 Jul 1891 in Gospich. She came to the US on 12 Apr 1912 aboard the SS La Touraline from Le Havre. She married Rade Rutalj in 1914 in Mayville Wisconsin. Rade died on 29 Jun 1921 and on 20 Jan 1923 Anna married Mike Panjkovich. Thank You Bill H. ____________________________________________________________________________________ Need a quick answer? Get one in minutes from people who know. Ask your question on www.Answers.yahoo.com

Andrija, Not that they can't affored vowels... the R serves the function of a vowel when it is adjacent to 2 consonants... I love that part of the language... very phonetic... very practical...it is the cases that drive me crazy. I guess your father left later and the travel changed for instance most Croatians would use Bremen but then after 1913 (WW I effected things) other ports incl. Liverpool were used more frequently... the burro is called magarac in Croatian... and in case it is not known the American Folk Hero Joe Magarac, of Pittsburgh Steel worker fame, was most likely taken from the Croatian word magarac Thus my friend Joe Matesich from Pittsburgh has a long running campaign to recruit people into the Magarac Club he even had shirts made with the mural of Joe Magarac from the U. of Pittsburgh http://vrcoll.fa.pitt.edu/uag/Past-Exhibitions/2000_Uwe_Wittwer/gropper.jpg ... as he meets new Croatian immigrants he will ask ti si magarac?... of course they respond ni sam magarac ! until they hear the story of this hard working Croatian... and then they smile and say ja sam magarac! http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Joe_Magarac Robert Andrija <hrvat@earthlink.net> wrote: My fahter's parents, who lived in Lovrec, Imotski, traveled from Trieste. I guess it was closer - just a burro ride down the mountain to the Adriadic, then to Split, and by train to Trieste (which they still call "Trst.) I guess they can't afford vowels. Andrija -----Original Message----- >From: "Donald A. Martinich" >Sent: Feb 20, 2007 6:54 PM >To: croatia@rootsweb.com >Subject: Re: [CROATIA] CROATIA Digest, Vol 2, Issue 28 > >> >>Message: 2 >>Date: Tue, 20 Feb 2007 13:56:40 -0800 >>From: "L. Novasel" >>Subject: Re: [CROATIA] NOVOSEL in Karlovac >>To: Andrija --------------------------------- , croatia@rootsweb.com >>Message-ID: <3EAE692A-C12D-11DB-97E5-000A95D1E4BE@mindspring.com> >>Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed >> >>Andrija, >>As a newcomer to Croatian research I'm only assuming that the same >>context applies there as elsewhere in Europe. >>Le Havre was a pivotal trading center in the years our ancestors filed >>for emigration. I understand there was a circular route, making optimum >>use of the ships. Cotton leaving from New Orleans for instance was >>routed to London where the cargo was unloaded. The ship then loaded >>trade goods destined for Le Havre, unloaded again, and took aboard >>human cargo bound for America, completing the trade circle for the >>shipping company. >> >>The contractor or travel organizer went into the villages, signed up >>our emigrating great grandmothers and grandfathers, then escorted them >>to the shipper's home port, with whom he in turn had contracted. My >>guess is that they traveled up the rivers avoiding trouble spots in the >>years preceding the war. Interesting Trieste wasn't utilized, but >>hazarding another guess, there was most likely not trade material in >>sufficient quantity to make the route profitable. Presumably the >>political- economic instability would have guaranteed that. Just >>speculation though. >> >>Nina > >Actually, Trieste was a port of embarkation. I just don't think it >had anywhere the tonnage that came in and out of Le Havre. My father >and his family arrived at Ellis Island on the SS Martha Washington, >which was operated out of Trieste by Unione Austriaca from 1908 to >1914. After WW1, she transferred to the Italian owned Cosulich >Lines, also of Trieste, and continued the New York run through the >20's. Incidentally, the Cosulich family originated in Mali Losinj. > >Don > >------------------------------- >To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to CROATIA-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to CROATIA-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message "Civilization is the progress toward a society of privacy. The savage's whole existence is public, ruled by the laws of his tribe. Civilization is the process of setting man free from men." Ayn Rand 1905-1982

My fahter's parents, who lived in Lovrec, Imotski, traveled from Trieste. I guess it was closer - just a burro ride down the mountain to the Adriadic, then to Split, and by train to Trieste (which they still call "Trst.) I guess they can't afford vowels. Andrija -----Original Message----- >From: "Donald A. Martinich" <dutchm@dcn.org> >Sent: Feb 20, 2007 6:54 PM >To: croatia@rootsweb.com >Subject: Re: [CROATIA] CROATIA Digest, Vol 2, Issue 28 > >> >>Message: 2 >>Date: Tue, 20 Feb 2007 13:56:40 -0800 >>From: "L. Novasel" <nimbler@mindspring.com> >>Subject: Re: [CROATIA] NOVOSEL in Karlovac >>To: Andrija <hrvat@earthlink.net>, croatia@rootsweb.com >>Message-ID: <3EAE692A-C12D-11DB-97E5-000A95D1E4BE@mindspring.com> >>Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed >> >>Andrija, >>As a newcomer to Croatian research I'm only assuming that the same >>context applies there as elsewhere in Europe. >>Le Havre was a pivotal trading center in the years our ancestors filed >>for emigration. I understand there was a circular route, making optimum >>use of the ships. Cotton leaving from New Orleans for instance was >>routed to London where the cargo was unloaded. The ship then loaded >>trade goods destined for Le Havre, unloaded again, and took aboard >>human cargo bound for America, completing the trade circle for the >>shipping company. >> >>The contractor or travel organizer went into the villages, signed up >>our emigrating great grandmothers and grandfathers, then escorted them >>to the shipper's home port, with whom he in turn had contracted. My >>guess is that they traveled up the rivers avoiding trouble spots in the >>years preceding the war. Interesting Trieste wasn't utilized, but >>hazarding another guess, there was most likely not trade material in >>sufficient quantity to make the route profitable. Presumably the >>political- economic instability would have guaranteed that. Just >>speculation though. >> >>Nina > >Actually, Trieste was a port of embarkation. I just don't think it >had anywhere the tonnage that came in and out of Le Havre. My father >and his family arrived at Ellis Island on the SS Martha Washington, >which was operated out of Trieste by Unione Austriaca from 1908 to >1914. After WW1, she transferred to the Italian owned Cosulich >Lines, also of Trieste, and continued the New York run through the >20's. Incidentally, the Cosulich family originated in Mali Losinj. > >Don > >------------------------------- >To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to CROATIA-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message