Roanne, I am having trouble e-mailing you directly for some reason. Thank you for all you information. Are you able to give us the contact address for Franjo Sepic? Dick Puz

Ashley and Listers: I have a database filled with Radosevic (and similar spellings) from Croatia to many destinations in the US. Many Radosevic people went to the huge mine near Gallup, New Mexico. Many Radosevic people also went to Duluth, MN, the Pittsburgh area (mainly to McKees Rocks, PA) and a few others went to Crested Butte, CO, and to Illinois and Indiana. The family I am researching went to Chicago, IL. New Mexico has had a State Senator named Radosevich (from the Gallup clan) and it is not an uncommon surname in that State. Jolie Blanchard Researching Croatian Surnames: Busic(h), Sporcic(h), Radosevic(h). --- Ashley Tiwara <grubisic@netwurx.net> wrote: > In my previous posting about Balen and Saric names > at Ellis Island, I > didn't mention the many RADOSEVIC names that showed > up in the > manifest for the ship OCEANIC, arriving in 1911. > If you are researching this name, check out those > emigrating, who are > from Mrkopalj and Lovinac, but give contacts in some > instances > including a mother and a wife who is a Radosevic for > someone with a > different surname. All these Radosevic connections > are going to New > Mexico, especially Gallup. > > Good hunting, > Ashley > > Oceanic > > Associated Passenger Date of Arrival Port of > Departure Line # > Page # 0634 > Balen, Ilka July 12, 1911 Southampton - > previous next > Original page > Manifest for Oceanic > Sailing from Southampton > Name Gender Age Married Ethnicity Place of Residence > 0001. Brucjevac, Fendel M 30y M Austrian > Barch, Croatia > 0006. Jahundric, Marija F 20y S Austrian > Lv. Rok, Croatia > 0011. Crukovic, Paval M 17y M Austrian > Mrkopaly, Croatia > 0013. Radosevic, Ivan M 44y M Austrian > Mrkopaly, Croatia > 0019. Snedman, Jol M 29y M Hebrew London, England > 0020. Perlmuter, Tendel M 20y S Hebrew London, > England > 0002. Brucjevac, Irma F 20y M Austrian Barch, > Croatia > 0005. Balen, Ilka F 23y S Austrian Lv. > Rok, Croatia > 0014. Krulfac, Margareta F 20y S Austrian > Mrkopaly, Croatia > 0016. Vragutin, Polic M 20y S Austrian > Mrkopaly, Croatia > 0017. Radosevic, Mifo M 23y S Austrian > Mrkopaly, Croatia > 0003. Pavicic, Marks M 29y S Austrian Lovinac, > Crotia > 0007. Drageceaic, .osa M 17y S Austrian > Rudoployc, Croatia > 0009. Julantic, Matija F 17y S Austrian > Lv.Rok, Croatia > 0015. Radocevic, Johanna F 18y S Austrian > Mrkopaly, Croatia > 0004. Laric, Marija F 23y S Austrian Lranic, Crotia > 0008. Scheiber, Ivan M 21y S Austrian Uaoa > Bukooua, Croatia > 0010. Radisevic, Franjo M 35y M Austrian > Looinar, Croatia > 0012. Crukosic, Andjelina M 17y S Austrian > Mrkopaly, Croatia > 0018. Naf, Johannes M 31y S German, Switzerland > Peterzall, Switzerland > 0021. Lewis, William John M 21y S Welch > Tonyfrandy, Wales > 0022. Morgen, Thomas M 46y M Welch Peny, Wales > Associated Passenger Date of Arrival Port of > Departure Line > # Page # 108 > Balen, Ilka July 12, 1911 Southampton - > previous next > Original page > > -- > __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Great stuff seeking new owners in Yahoo! Auctions! http://auctions.yahoo.com

Here is another web page with useful information on destinations you can read up on. Click on destinations and choose a destination. It will tell you about the area you are interested in. Mary http://www.croatia.hr/destinations/ ----- Original Message ----- From: "Doug H." <hecimovic@ev1.net> To: <CROATIA-L@rootsweb.com> Sent: Sunday, January 27, 2002 7:38 AM Subject: [CROATIA-L] Map of Counties > There is a map of the counties in Croatia at http://www.croatia.net. Under > "Croats around the World" click on "Discover Croatia" then click on it again > on the next screen. > > If you have had a difficult time figuring out the counties when performing > phone directory searches on http://www.imenik.hinet.hr/, then this may be > helpful. > Doug >

hi! thank you so much to everyone for the help! i thought that mrkopalj might be the place to look, but i didn't know if croatian church records were still in the local churches or not. i will certainly order them and get started now! again many thanks for the help! ashley- the only names that i have so far are tadevich(formerly tadeyevic) and delost(of vrbovsko). i will keep your email and let you know if i find a connection between our families. by the way, did your garndmother's parents happen to live in florida?

If you haven't called FHL for film # as yet, Sunger is located about 5 km. from Mrkopalj. LDS-Mormons filmed the metrical books (births, marriages, deaths) (1764-1916) for the R.C. congregation at Mrkopalj, Modrus-Fiume megye, Hungary; now Mrkopalj, Croatia. Text in Latin and Croatian. film # 1536605 2084824 2084825 2084826 2084827 rodeni (births) to 1897 umrli (deaths) to 1907 vjencani (marriages) to 1916 In Latin the parish church records are titled matricula. Matricula Baptisatorum = Baptism Records Matricula Copulatorum = Marriage Records Matricula Defunctorum = Death Records

Amy, Could you post at least your parents and grandparents last names, or further back if you have the info? My grandmother PETROVIC and grandfather GRUBISIC were both from Sunger. This is the Sunger the locals always call 'Selo Sunger', in the Mrkopalj valley. Mrkopalj is where the parish church is and was and the distance is about 3 miles between them. You'll want to get the records from LDS for the church in Mrkopalj, Sunger didn't have a church. Some of the records go back to about 1755. Start slow, they're awful to read. Learn about German Gothic script: you'll need to be able to tell an L from an S or you won't be able to read that Talm Lomtag is actually Palm Sunday. I'm asking about the surnames because Gram had TADEVIC cousins, with whom we've lost touch. Regards, Ashley >hi! > >i am only to the point of ordering church records through the lds >church. however, i have no idea what film to order for my two towns: >sunger and vrbovsko. has anyone researched these towns? i would >appreciate any assistance!! >by the way, i am researching the family names: tadeyevic(now tadevich) >and delost. thank you so much!! > >i just joined and it was wonderful to read about roanne's experience! i >hope that when i go, that i too meet relatives! > >amy --

Roanne asked for hints about communicating when you don't know the language. Last Sept. my sister and I met relatives near Zagreb who spoke no English at all. (We had been told they spoke some.) I took lots of pictures along with us. I made copies of old family photographs: my paternal grandparents (who came from that area), their children, and our current family members. I labeled each one with the person's name and birthdate, and occupation. (I used a Croatian dictionary for this.) I also drew a descendant chart with my paternal grandparents near the top, so they could see how current family in America fit into the big picture. I already knew basic genealogical terms, mother, father, grandmother, grandfather, birth, death, marriage, city, town, years, day, month, etc. We took postcards of scenes around Seattle, both the city and the surrounding mountains, waterfalls, etc. One of the postcards had ageneral map of Washington state, and we could point to Mt. Rainier, and then point to it on a map, for instance. We had pictures of our Pike Place Market, the uiniversity campus, the marinas, the lakes, parks, etc. We communciated with pictures, 2-3 word sentences, a small dictionary, pantomiming, even writing things down. Basic words, how much, how many years, where, who, etc. We managed to communicate, however primitively, for several hours. A few photos of unidentified people were recognized by them. They served us a lunch of all homemade food....pickles, bread, cheese, sausage, bacon, wine, figs, and to our surprise and delight, orenjaca. They spread their hands over the table and said "domaci" - which I took for all homemade (domus= house, that old high school Latin came in handy). I pointed to the bread and the orenjaca and repeated domaci, then pointed to the rest and said the word for "store." They laughed...they got it.... Certainly, we didn't carry on fluent coversation, but we did communicate. You'll do fine. And I echo the sentiments about hospitality. Although they knew we were coming (we had written last summer) and we had arranged the day and time (with the help of the hotel staff's Croatian) we certainly never expected to be served a meal...they had obviously gone to a great deal of trouble. The only negative part of the trip was that my grandfather's 85 year old niece died 6 days before we arrived...we had hoped to meet her and her children, but they were not available, as her burial had taken place only a few days prior to our arrival. In fact, we were prowling the cemetery before meeting the relatives, and saw her grave. Otherwise, we might have embarrassed ourselves by asking where she was.

Found another document with the words Osobni opis in bold print. Would be most thankful for any translation of same.

Can someone give me the e-mail address of the Slovenian web site similar to this Croatian site? Thanks. Dick Puz

Can someone please tell me what type of document I have found on my father born in Cabuna in 1886. The header reads Poglavarstvu cbcino. Any help would be greatly appreciated. My name is Charles Schaefer - e-mail address cmswi04@aol.com Thanking you in advance for help you might be able to furnish.

There is a map of the counties in Croatia at http://www.croatia.net. Under "Croats around the World" click on "Discover Croatia" then click on it again on the next screen. If you have had a difficult time figuring out the counties when performing phone directory searches on http://www.imenik.hinet.hr/, then this may be helpful. Doug

amy davis wrote: > > hi! > > i am only to the point of ordering church records through the lds > church. however, i have no idea what film to order for my two towns: > sunger and vrbovsko. has anyone researched these towns? i would > appreciate any assistance!! > by the way, i am researching the family names: tadeyevic(now tadevich) > and delost. thank you so much!! > > i just joined and it was wonderful to read about roanne's experience! i > hope that when i go, that i too meet relatives! > > amy Sunger/Sungari/Sungeri/Sungri is located 65 miles WSW of Zagreb in the Rijeka and Gorski Kotar region of Croatia. Vrbovsko is located 53 miles WSW of Zagreb in the the Rijeka and Gorski Kotar region of Croatia. The Croatian telephone directory lists 23 surname Tadejevic' (Tadejevich) under this region, including 3 surnames listed under Sunger. (In Croatian the letter j is pron. y) The Croatian telephone directory lists 13 surname Delost under this region, including 2 surnames listed under Vrovsko. I see no LDS microfilms of parish church records listed for Sunger or Vrovsko in the FH library catalog. So, call the International desk 800 number at LDS HQ in Salt Lake City and ask Sylvie where the parish records (if any) for your villages might be found ? Toll free number 1-800-453-3860, extension 2881.

While I was at the graveyard in Cres, I took pictures of other family names (most on the same stone as mine) I recognized on this list so if you are interested in these names, let me know and I will send you further info, and if needed, a picture of the stone. Tentor Lemecich Smundin Bradizza Pugiotto Sablich Santulin Bunicci Baicich Stipanich Ceglian Sivuc Stipanich Tonetti Negovetich Stefana and Giovanni Rodinis and of course Bolmarcich/Bommarco Elaine

Roanne and other Co-Listers, Glad to hear you also had a successful trip and that you also found some members of your family. Our trip to Trieste/Cres this past November was the best. We met so many cousins (took 300 pictures) and these people are absolutely wonderful. They also made us feel that we had been in the family all of our lives. We did find our family stones in the cemetery against the wall with many names and pictures on them and they started from the mid 1800's also. We visited the church and met the priest and he took us on a tour of the grounds and there is apparently an older cemetery but only a few stones remained that we could see. We plan to pursue this further. At this church, there is a bust of my cousin who is a retired archbishop, who I met the week before, another truly wonderful person who spent many hours talking to us about our family. Unfortunately, for me, my direct line left Cherso/Cres in 1803-05 so I did not find much on them but our family is working with the LDS records to put all 5 families who are working on the Bolmarcic line together. We know we are all related, so these cousins I met are very dear to me. In the pension (we had a kitchen, living room, bedroom, and a restaurant downstairs-Super!) we stayed at which also was right on the water, the owner had a daughter-in-law who was looking for her grandfather who came to Chicago in 1903. I told her I would do my best to find him and I have just received his records, he died only 3 years after coming to the US and I am forwarding the information on to her. So it is not only us from the US looking for our ancestors over there, they also are looking for their ancestors who came to the US. They tell me I am now a "Garini" and I consider it an honor! We even went to Mali Losinj to help another "cousin" find her family. I went to the tourist office and gave them the name I was looking for and they said, go to this cafe down the street. We went there and ordered a cup of tea and asked the waitress about the name and she called on the phone and said "wait 5 minutes". In comes a wonderful gentleman of the last name I was looking for and he said ""have her call me, email me, write me and I will help her all I can". He even asked how long we were going to be in Mali Losinj as he would take a day off to talk to us. Unfortunately, it was our last day on Cres--upon our return home I gave the information to our "cousin" and she is pursuing her line For all of you who are "thinking" about going, go--you will have so many wonderful memories. We are going back in 2003! Elaine

wow! thank you so much!! amy Frank Kurchina wrote: > amy davis wrote: > > > > hi! > > > > i am only to the point of ordering church records through the lds > > church. however, i have no idea what film to order for my two towns: > > sunger and vrbovsko. has anyone researched these towns? i would > > appreciate any assistance!! > > by the way, i am researching the family names: tadeyevic(now tadevich) > > and delost. thank you so much!! > > > > i just joined and it was wonderful to read about roanne's experience! i > > hope that when i go, that i too meet relatives! > > > > amy > > Sunger/Sungari/Sungeri/Sungri is located 65 miles WSW of Zagreb > in the Rijeka and Gorski Kotar region of Croatia. > > Vrbovsko is located 53 miles WSW of Zagreb in the > the Rijeka and Gorski Kotar region of Croatia. > > The Croatian telephone directory lists 23 surname Tadejevic' > (Tadejevich) under this region, including 3 surnames listed > under Sunger. > (In Croatian the letter j is pron. y) > > The Croatian telephone directory lists 13 surname Delost > under this region, including 2 surnames listed under Vrovsko. > > I see no LDS microfilms of parish church records listed for > Sunger or Vrovsko in the FH library catalog. > > So, call the International desk 800 number at LDS HQ in Salt Lake City > and ask Sylvie where the parish records (if any) for your villages > might be found ? > > Toll free number 1-800-453-3860, extension 2881.

Roanne, I loved your story about your travels. And, it is so timely as we are about to make the same trip this Easter. For all I know, we may well be related. My father comes from the village of Spincici which is a few miles from Rijeka and this sounds like it must be close to Rukavac. My understanding is that our family records may also be a St. Luke's so I note with interest your comments. My father had two brothers, Victor and Ricco plus 6 sisters. My father arrived in America in 1921. I wonder if your grandfather, Mate, might have been related to my father's father- -Gonnateli (Jonetti) Puz who was born in 1868. His father was Jonetti Puz born about 1826. We too are staying in Opatija at the Millenium Hotel. How long was your trip? Do you have any other tips that you think would be helpful for us? We are dumb Americans with virtually no language skills despite my having grown up in a Croatian family. Not even listening to language tapes for months has revived what little I knew. We are very concerned about being able to communicate with family without having a common language. Do you have any suggestions? Thanks for sharing with us. Dick Puz

hi! i am only to the point of ordering church records through the lds church. however, i have no idea what film to order for my two towns: sunger and vrbovsko. has anyone researched these towns? i would appreciate any assistance!! by the way, i am researching the family names: tadeyevic(now tadevich) and delost. thank you so much!! i just joined and it was wonderful to read about roanne's experience! i hope that when i go, that i too meet relatives! amy

First, a little background: My grandfather, Mate Puz, left Rukavac for America in 1910, at age 18, leaving his father, brother and 3 sisters. His brother, Ivan Puz, followed in 1923; Ivan's wife, Ivanka Sepic, and their daughter, Nada, came about 1930. They are all deceased. My grandfather said he was from Fiume, Austria (now Rijeka, Croatia) so it was just recently that I learned the name of the village where he was born and had lived. In October, I wrote to the Opcina and tourist office in Matulji (the closest municipality to Rukavac) and to the priest of St. Luke's Roman Catholic church in Rukavac. I didn't get a reply from anyone. Sent e-mails to all travel agencies in Matulji and received a reply from one, in English (bless her heart). Before leaving home, I made photocopies of everything I had pertaining to my grandfather; his collection of old photographs (no names), immigration records, etc. and put them in a binder and we were off to Croatia. Our hotel in Opatija was right on the bay, so we had a beautiful view of Rijeka and the island of Krk from our room. The next morning we rented a car and set out to explore the villages and cemeteries. We found the cemetery at Rukavac, but the dates on the headstones only went back to the late 1930s, which I found surprising. And, on some headstones, there was up to 4/5 names on the same stone. None of the other villages in the area had a cemetery. We went through the cemeteries in Volosko, Opatija and Kastav, and found the same thing. Then we found out why. A burial plot is "leased" for 30 years. The grave cannot be disturbed for 10 years; after 10 years, the bones can be removed and the next deceased family member interred in the same plot. If, after 30 years the family does not "renew" the lease, the bones are removed, the headstone placed against a back wall and the grave is ready for new occupants. The only microfilm on Rukavac available at the archives in Rijeka is the one made by and available from the LDS family history library, so we didn't learn anything new there. Then we hit the JACKPOT. Not able to speak any Croatian, we were getting discouraged, and decided in ask (in a little English, a little Italian) at the little market in Rukavac if there were any other cemeteries in the area and told her the name we were researching. She quickly ushered us out of her store and across the street to the home of professor Franjo Sepic, who, she said, knew everything about Rukavac. Franjo's wife knows a little English, so with the help of our Croatian/English, English/Croatian dictionaries, we set to work. In the meantime, I pulled out my binder which Franjo's elderly uncle began to look through. After a couple of pages, he pointed to a picture, said something in Croatian which sent everyone scurrying over to see what he found. What he found was a Sepic family photograph, (Franjo's father, the father's siblings and parents.) Ivanka, the wife of my grandfather's brother, Ivan, was Franjo's aunt. Once that was established, he knew who we were. He told us that the name of our family home was Kalinari; that each house has a name, to distinguish families with the same surname. Franjo's sister arrived, we had lunch, they showed us the house where my grandfather was born, gave us a tour of upper and lower Rukavac and shared family stories. For days they gave HOSPITALITY like you wouldn't believe, absolutely wonderful people! Franjo telephoned our cousin, Josip, who lives down the road in another village and then took us over to Josip's house. Josip's son speaks English, so he acted as our interpreter. I pulled out my binder again as I have a photograph of one of my grandfather 's sisters, but I didn't have a name to go with it, of course, it turned out to be Josip's mother, Katarina, called Tonca. Josip still owns the family home though I doubt if it would even qualify as a fixer-upper, tear down and start over would more adequately describe it. Josip pulled out his box of goodies, (old documents, photographs, letters from my grandfather, etc.) for us to look through. His son, Lari, said Josip has not allowed his wife or sons to look through this box. Josip was saving this box, in case anyone from America ever showed up. Even though Josip has a wife and two sons, he always says he is alone in the world, now he has family. Josip's wife kept thanking us for coming because it made her husband so happy. It was a very emotional experience. Again, HOSPITALITY, plus. Cooking for us, showing us around, etc. The only disagreeable person we had contact with was the priest at St. Luke' s church. When contacted for an appointment by my new travel agent friend who said we were researching our family, he replied that he hoped we would do our research without involving him, and said, "Oh these Americans, if they want to know about their family, why don't they keep in touch with them." After much persuasion, he finally agreed to meet with us (on our last day there) for a few minutes, (he's a very busy man, you know). Cousin, Lari, went with us to act as interpreter. The priest had the letters I sent to the Opcina and tourist offices in Matulji but said he did not receive the letter I sent to him, (the one with $, self addressed return envelope and international reply coupons for postage). After making us wait outside for 10 minutes, he ushered us into his office where we all sat at a table while he went through the Rukavac book. It must have been the "book of souls" because it took him about one minute to turn a few pages to the Puz page which has vitals on three generations of my family. He was pleasant enough to us but kept up a constant chatter which Lari later told us was his complaining about looking up this information for us. He kept saying he didn't have to do this, this wasn't his job, he is a very busy man, etc., etc. After leaving his office, the three of us unanimously agreed that he lied when he said he did not receive my letter to him. While we were in the area, a letter to the editor appeared in a newspaper saying he should be ashamed of himself for charging 500 kuna (about$60) for a one-hour funeral service when it took the family about a week to earn that much. We were told that he yells at his congregation during mass, saying they don't know how to pray (because they use their dialect), that they're stupid, etc. He's not very well liked, to say the least. St. Luke's church was destroyed (by mistake) during Allied bombing in 1943 and rebuilt in 1982, so records between those years are elsewhere, probably Kastav, (Franjo is going to inquire there, on our behalf). The Puz family home, located near the church, was also destroyed. Vinko Puz, my great grandfather, refused to leave his home when the bombing started so had to be dug out of the rubble, damaged, but alive. Now I know where the family stubborn streak comes from. To make a long story shorter, we had a successful trip and a wonderful experience. Roanne

http://lists.rootsweb.com/index/intl/SVN/SLOVENIA.html -----Original Message----- From: PUZEXPRESS@aol.com [mailto:PUZEXPRESS@aol.com] Sent: Friday, 25 January 2002 10:48 AM To: CROATIA-L@rootsweb.com Subject: [CROATIA-L] Slovenia Can someone please give me the e-mail address for the Slovenian group. Thank you, Dick Puz

Can someone please give me the e-mail address for the Slovenian group. Thank you, Dick Puz