DAVID N MOTHKOVICH wrote: > > Hi - > It's late at night and I just put in a 14 hour day. Please explain how > this might work for instance with my relatives, Josip Matkovic married > Anna Bakic. Her father Stephen Bakic married Julia Vuksic. > > I'm pretty confused at the moment. > Dave The use of hyphenated surnames , binames, aliases, double surnames et al has been dicusssed in this mailing list in the past. It can be quite complicated. In essence, the surname to left of hyphen was the original surname, while the surname to right was the alias or later identifier. Sometimes these surnames became switched over time ? If you use the online Croatian telephone directory you will note that the hyphenated surnames (if any) are listed first under each surname.

Hi - It's late at night and I just put in a 14 hour day. Please explain how this might work for instance with my relatives, Josip Matkovic married Anna Bakic. Her father Stephen Bakic married Julia Vuksic. I'm pretty confused at the moment. Dave

On my post about our recent trip to Rukavac, Croatia, I mentioned that in order to distinguish between individuals bearing the same name, each house in the village had a name. We then discovered a couple of ways the house name is used. Kalinari, the name of my Puz family house, was written at the top of our family page in the Status Animarum (book of souls) at the parish church, (while the priest was on the telephone, my daughter photographed the huge ledger book, which was opened to our page, so I just noticed this when looking at the pictures); We were given books on the area written by our new friends/relatives- in-law, author, Franjo Sepic-Bertin (Franjo Sepic from the house Bertin); and author, Franjo Mohorovicic-Maricin, (Franjo Mohorovicic from the house Maricin). Also saw the use of hyphenated names in cemeteries, so assume the same rule applies. The maiden name of a woman, if given, was under her married name, with the prefix "Rod.", born. This was all new to me, so thought I'd pass it on. Roanne

Frank That was a wonderful email you sent. Thank You and Thank You for the info on Sule. Is it possible to email the people at the website you gave me? I tried and all emails were returned to me . When I tried to register it would not bring the page up. Could you explain how their towns cities are done? I do not understand Isand of Solta Split Grohote are these all towns in Croatia? I noticed that one of the persons on the list had the same last name as my great grandmother BURICA. I also noticed that there was a gentleman willing to help with info in the area of Solta Zelijko M BURSAC. Is there any reading you would recommend I do to get a better feel for the people of Solta? I can tell they are a very warm hospitable people Sincerely Toni ----- Original Message ----- From: "Frank Kurchina" <frankur@worldnet.att.net> To: <CROATIA-L@rootsweb.com> Sent: Tuesday, January 29, 2002 10:51 PM Subject: Re: [CROATIA-L] Can you identify? > > > Toni Olson wrote: > > > > I have a paper I believe to be my grandmothers birth certificate Her name was VICE SULE > > at the top of the page it reads: > > > > FEDERATIVNA NARODNA REPUBLIKA JUGOSLAVIJA NARODNA REPUBLIKA HRVATSKA > > > > Kotar : Split > > Narodni odbor Opoine Solta > > Ocevid.(c has a v over it) broj: 114/ 1953 > > Izvod iz matacne knjige rodenih > > > > Would appreciate a translation if anyone out there can help me. Someone in the family thought that she was French However as far as I knew from my parents she was 100% Croatian. > > > > On my grandfathers passenger record off the Ellis Island site he lists place of residence as : Rujani,Austria Would this be one of those tows where different countries claimed it as theirs? His name on passenger record: ANTE BRDARA > > his name in US: ANTON BRDAR > > tHANKS FOR ANY HELP YOU CAN GIVE > > Toni > > I wrote 24 Jan 2002. > > Otok (island) Solta is located in the Splitsko region of Dalmacija, > Croatia. > > http://www.dalmacija.net/solta.htm > > > Croatian telephone directory lists 40 surname Brdar bearers under the > Split area. > Directory also lists 49 surname Sule under Split (C) Spalato (I) > > > People who are from Solta or had a chance to visit the island. > > http://capita.wustl.edu/solta/People/SoltaPeople.html > > > When researching surname Sule in the U.S. it can be of other > ethnicity besides Croatian. > Linguistics. > This usually occurs when a Slavic name ends in a vowel. > Also wonder because the surname Sule does appear in Italy. > > Austria and Italy traded rule of parts of the Dalmatian coast > for over 450 years. > > Did surnames say > > Kako ste ? (C) > > Come sta ? (I) > > Comment allez-vous (F) > > Surname Sule does sound French (Soolay) > > Federativna Narodna Republika Jugoslavija Narodna Republika Hrvatska > Federal National Repbublic Yugoslavia National Republic Croatia > kotar Split > district > narodni odbor > people committee > opc'ine Solta > municipality Slota > > certificate from birth registry book > > In 1945 Yugoslavia became the Federal Republic of Yugoslavia. > In Slavic languages the letter j is pron. y . > Jugoslavija = Yugoslavia > The six republics that formed the former Yugoslavia were : Bosnia > and Herzegovina, Croatia, Macedonia, Montenegro, Slovenia, and Serbia. > > Ante Brdara emigrated through Ellis Island in 1913. > only 1 surname Brdara is listed in EIR > However, 65 surname Brdar emigrated through Ellis Island 1892-1924. > Over 250 + surname Brdar are living just in U.S. > So his surname was misspelled in the ship manifest > > Yes. > But, only text copy lists place of residence as Rujani > Image copy lists his birthplace as perhaps Rujand ? > In fact, first 7 emigrants on page were all born in Austria Rujan. > He was number 2 in manifest and all 7 were listed as being Bosnian. > Believe Rujan is located 2 miles from Broc'anac, Bosnia & Herzegovina. > Rujan is located 48 miles distant from Split (C) Spalato (I) and > 55 miles distant from Sarajevo, B & H. > War I began in 1914 after the Austrian Archduke Ferdinand, heir to the > Hapsburg throne, was assassinated at Sarajevo. > > Think Ante was going to an address in Chicago, IL >

----- Original Message ----- From: "Toni Olson" <otoni@earthlink.net> To: <CROATIA-L@rootsweb.com> Sent: Tuesday, January 29, 2002 2:58 PM Subject: [CROATIA-L] Can you identify? > I have a paper I believe to be my grandmothers birth certificate Her name was VICE SULE > at the top of the page it reads: > > FEDERATIVNA NARODNA REPUBLIKA JUGOSLAVIJA NARODNA REPUBLIKA HRVATSKA > > Kotar : Split > Narodni odbor Opoine Solta > Ocevid.(c has a v over it) broj: 114/ 1953 > Izvod iz matacne knjige rodenih > > Would appreciate a translation if anyone out there can help me. Someone in the family thought that she was French However as far as I knew from my parents she was 100% Croatian. > > On my grandfathers passenger record off the Ellis Island site he lists place of residence as : Rujani,Austria Would this be one of those tows where different countries claimed it as theirs? His name on passenger record: ANTE BRDARA > his name in US: ANTON BRDAR > tHANKS FOR ANY HELP YOU CAN GIVE > Toni > >

Toni Olson wrote: > > I have a paper I believe to be my grandmothers birth certificate Her name was VICE SULE > at the top of the page it reads: > > FEDERATIVNA NARODNA REPUBLIKA JUGOSLAVIJA NARODNA REPUBLIKA HRVATSKA > > Kotar : Split > Narodni odbor Opoine Solta > Ocevid.(c has a v over it) broj: 114/ 1953 > Izvod iz matacne knjige rodenih > > Would appreciate a translation if anyone out there can help me. Someone in the family thought that she was French However as far as I knew from my parents she was 100% Croatian. > > On my grandfathers passenger record off the Ellis Island site he lists place of residence as : Rujani,Austria Would this be one of those tows where different countries claimed it as theirs? His name on passenger record: ANTE BRDARA > his name in US: ANTON BRDAR > tHANKS FOR ANY HELP YOU CAN GIVE > Toni I wrote 24 Jan 2002. Otok (island) Solta is located in the Splitsko region of Dalmacija, Croatia. http://www.dalmacija.net/solta.htm Croatian telephone directory lists 40 surname Brdar bearers under the Split area. Directory also lists 49 surname Sule under Split (C) Spalato (I) People who are from Solta or had a chance to visit the island. http://capita.wustl.edu/solta/People/SoltaPeople.html When researching surname Sule in the U.S. it can be of other ethnicity besides Croatian. Linguistics. This usually occurs when a Slavic name ends in a vowel. Also wonder because the surname Sule does appear in Italy. Austria and Italy traded rule of parts of the Dalmatian coast for over 450 years. Did surnames say Kako ste ? (C) Come sta ? (I) Comment allez-vous (F) Surname Sule does sound French (Soolay) Federativna Narodna Republika Jugoslavija Narodna Republika Hrvatska Federal National Repbublic Yugoslavia National Republic Croatia kotar Split district narodni odbor people committee opc'ine Solta municipality Slota certificate from birth registry book In 1945 Yugoslavia became the Federal Republic of Yugoslavia. In Slavic languages the letter j is pron. y . Jugoslavija = Yugoslavia The six republics that formed the former Yugoslavia were : Bosnia and Herzegovina, Croatia, Macedonia, Montenegro, Slovenia, and Serbia. Ante Brdara emigrated through Ellis Island in 1913. only 1 surname Brdara is listed in EIR However, 65 surname Brdar emigrated through Ellis Island 1892-1924. Over 250 + surname Brdar are living just in U.S. So his surname was misspelled in the ship manifest Yes. But, only text copy lists place of residence as Rujani Image copy lists his birthplace as perhaps Rujand ? In fact, first 7 emigrants on page were all born in Austria Rujan. He was number 2 in manifest and all 7 were listed as being Bosnian. Believe Rujan is located 2 miles from Broc'anac, Bosnia & Herzegovina. Rujan is located 48 miles distant from Split (C) Spalato (I) and 55 miles distant from Sarajevo, B & H. War I began in 1914 after the Austrian Archduke Ferdinand, heir to the Hapsburg throne, was assassinated at Sarajevo. Think Ante was going to an address in Chicago, IL

I have a paper I believe to be my grandmothers birth certificate Her name was VICE SULE at the top of the page it reads: FEDERATIVNA NARODNA REPUBLIKA JUGOSLAVIJA NARODNA REPUBLIKA HRVATSKA Kotar : Split Narodni odbor Opoine Solta Ocevid.(c has a v over it) broj: 114/ 1953 Izvod iz matacne knjige rodenih Would appreciate a translation if anyone out there can help me. Someone in the family thought that she was French However as far as I knew from my parents she was 100% Croatian. On my grandfathers passenger record off the Ellis Island site he lists place of residence as : Rujani,Austria Would this be one of those tows where different countries claimed it as theirs? His name on passenger record: ANTE BRDARA his name in US: ANTON BRDAR tHANKS FOR ANY HELP YOU CAN GIVE Toni

Ashley Tiwara wrote: > > >I thoght these names and places could as easily be Croatian and am > >forwarding them to the list. Please, if yu wish to respond, go tot > >he Slovenia list. I have no further information beyond the posting. > > Ashley > > >X-Mailing-List: <SLOVENIA-L@rootsweb.com> archive/latest/353 > >@rootsweb.com > > > >Hello, > >I am new to this list and am trying to research my paternal side of the > >family. My grandfather was John Guntner b. Sept 9, 1911 in Ulianik, > >Slovoninja. He was the son of Joseph Guntner b. April 28, 1878 in Sokolovac, > >Slovoninja and Juliana Hegyi b. June 9, 1879 Korenica, Slovoninja. They were > >married March 6, 1902 in Daruvar, Slovoninja. From the little bit of > >information that I have I was told that Joseph worked/owned a grist mill. > >They did come to America around 1903 and stayed for a few years and had at > >least one child in New York in 1905. They then returned to Slonvonija for > >several more years and returned to the US in 1913 (Joseph) and 1914 (Juliana > >& children). This family lived in Chicago in 1917 where a daughter Sophie > >was born and then moved to Florida in Westville. Any help deeply appreciated. > >Kindest regards, > >Denise Guntner Talbot > Since I don't believe this query actually refers to the Republic of Slovenia (Slovenija) will reply here. Recently replied to another reseacher's ? query below. Daruvar is located 61 miles ESE of Zagreb and 10 miles north of Pakrac in Bjelovar z^upnija (county), Croatia. You give no dates for the surnames. Were you looking for the Daruvar above , or for the other Daruvár ? Darowa was latter's German place name identifier. Formerly Daruvár, Krassó-Szörény megye, in the Bánát region of Hungary; also called Kranichstätten, now Darova, Timis, Romania and located 227 miles WNW of Bucharest. This is across the Croatian border and across the Serbian border and near Timisoara in Romania. Village Names: German: Darowa, Kranichstätten Official: Darova Hungarian: Daruvár Spelling and/or dialect variants: Location: Country: Romania 15km SW of Lugosch Postal Code: 1826 Railroad station: Boldur Population: 1977: 1806 1930: 1917 (98.3% Germans) 1910: 1500 (95.6% Germans) Genealogical Records: Village name in FHL records: Kranichstätten, Daruvár Church records available at FHL: Christenings 1786-1835 only, Marriages 1786-1835, Deaths 1786-1835 FHL Microfilm Nr. 1190378 Daruvár, Krassó-Szörény megye, Hungary, also called Kranichstätten, now Darova, Timis, Romania. Donauschwaben (German) http://www.genealogienetz.de/reg/ESE/dschwaben.html ----------------------------------------- My reply to this query is more difficult. Günther is a German surname. Ulianik is located 52 miles ESE of Zagreb. On a map, Ulianik appears to form apex of a triangle with Daruvar and Pakrac, so Daruvar located in Croatia seems to be correct place name. (61 miles ESE of Zagreb and 10 miles north of Pakrac) LDS-Mormons filmed the R.C. parish church records (1791-1921) for Daruvar, Slavonia, Austria; later Daruvár, (Poz^ega) Pozsega Megye (county), Hungary; now Daruvar, Croatia. Text in Latin and Croatian. film # 1419050 1419051 1921762 1921763 2061737 2061738 . . etc (16 films total) A Sokolovac Daruvarski is located 52 miles ESE of Zagreb and 4 miles from Ulianik. Korenica is probably Titova Korenica located 74 miles SSW of Zagreb in Zadar region and near the current Bosnia & Herzegovina border. There is also another Sokolovac located 40 miles ENE of Zagreb and a third Sokolovac is located 135 miles east of Zagreb. Slavonia (E), as in Croatia-Slavonia was called Slavonija (C) and Szlavónia (H) Before WW I there was no country called Slovenia (Slovenija) because it was part of the Austrian provinces. In 1920, a new country of Yugoslavia was also formed including the former Austro-Hungarian lands of the southern portion of the Banat, the southern portion of the Batschka, Bosnia-Hercegovina, the southern portion of the duchy of Carinthia (Slovenia), most of the of duchy of Carniola, Croatia-Slavonia, the kingdom of Dalmatia, the southern portion of Swabian Turkey, the southern portion of duchy of Styria, and Syrmia. The Kingdom of Serbs,Croats and Slovenes was established on Dec. 1, 1918 and was renamed Yugoslavia on Oct. 4, 1929. In 1945 this became the Federal Republic of Yugoslavia. The six republics that formed the former Yugoslavia were : Bosnia and Herzegovina, Croatia, Macedonia, Montenegro, Slovenia, and Serbia.

>I thoght these names and places could as easily be Croatian and am >forwarding them to the list. Please, if yu wish to respond, go tot >he Slovenia list. I have no further information beyond the posting. Ashley >X-Mailing-List: <SLOVENIA-L@rootsweb.com> archive/latest/353 >@rootsweb.com > >Hello, >I am new to this list and am trying to research my paternal side of the >family. My grandfather was John Guntner b. Sept 9, 1911 in Ulianik, >Slovoninja. He was the son of Joseph Guntner b. April 28, 1878 in Sokolovac, >Slovoninja and Juliana Hegyi b. June 9, 1879 Korenica, Slovoninja. They were >married March 6, 1902 in Daruvar, Slovoninja. From the little bit of >information that I have I was told that Joseph worked/owned a grist mill. >They did come to America around 1903 and stayed for a few years and had at >least one child in New York in 1905. They then returned to Slonvonija for >several more years and returned to the US in 1913 (Joseph) and 1914 (Juliana >& children). This family lived in Chicago in 1917 where a daughter Sophie >was born and then moved to Florida in Westville. Any help deeply appreciated. >Kindest regards, >Denise Guntner Talbot --

>Forwarded from Living-L, couldn't resist, Ashley >X-Loop: LIVING-L@rootsweb.com > > > Ye Ole Newsflash: Ole is Dead > >Those in Minnesota may not have heard that Ole was shot. He was >up with his four-wheeler cutting trees by the Canadian border. >Some rangers looking for terrorists spotted him and, using the >loudspeaker, shouted, "Who are you and what are you doing?" > >Ole shouted back, "OLE. BIN LOGGIN'!" > --

In a message dated 1/28/2002 2:19:26 AM Central Standard Time, ivan.mazuranic@vr.se writes: > "Poglavarstvu cbcino" > > Probably > > "Poglavarstvu obcine" = heder of the communication addressed to the > local authorities / local government > > Regards > > Ivan > Much thanks - am most grateful. Chuck

ashley! i am sorry. i just reread your first posting to me and saw that you indicated your grandparents' last names. what i am wondering is how your grandmother had tadevic cousins- did one of her aunts marry a tadevic? do you know what the aunt's name or the uncle's name was? my great grandparents were steven tadevich and katherine delost thanks!

http://www.croatia-in-english.com/ Here is a web page which is reasonably new and Tom is still working on it but I think it will help alot who are researching their ancestors in Croatia. Tom is currently living in the Konavle/Dubrovnik area. His web page will show you how to read headings from the LDS films, Maticne Knjige, examples of the Stanja Dusa and much more. If you find something missing that you are interested in reading about drop him a line he would love to hear how to improve his web page and what interests people have in finding out more about their family history. Regards Mary

http://www.croatia-in-english.com/ Here is a web page which is reasonably new and Tom is still working on it but I think it will help alot who are researching their ancestors in Croatia. Tom is currently living in the Konavle/Dubrovnik area. His web page will show you how to read headings from the LDS films, Maticne Knjige, examples of the Stanja Dusa and much more. If you find something missing that you are interested in reading about drop him a line he would love to hear how to improve his web page and what interests people have in finding out more about their family history. Regards Mary

"Poglavarstvu cbcino" Probably "Poglavarstvu obcine" = heder of the communication addressed to the local authorities / local government Regards Ivan -----Ursprungligt meddelande----- Från: CMSWI04@aol.com [mailto:CMSWI04@aol.com] Skickat: den 26 januari 2002 20:32 Till: CROATIA-L@rootsweb.com Ämne: [CROATIA-L] RE: INFO ON CROATION DOC. Can someone please tell me what type of document I have found on my father born in Cabuna in 1886. The header reads Poglavarstvu cbcino. Any help would be greatly appreciated. My name is Charles Schaefer - e-mail address cmswi04@aol.com Thanking you in advance for help you might be able to furnish.

Amy, My grandfather and his brothers were in Illinois and Iowa. Gram came two years after Grampa and went to Iowa and ran a boarding house while he worked in the mines. They bought cut over boreal forest in northern Wisconsin in 1916 and slowly turned it into a farm. The family has since then been mostly in WI with cousins mostly in IL. Ashley >hi! > >thank you so much to everyone for the help! i thought that mrkopalj might >be the place to look, but i didn't know if croatian church records were >still in the local churches or not. i will certainly order them and get >started now! again many thanks for the help! > >ashley- the only names that i have so far are tadevich(formerly tadeyevic) >and delost(of vrbovsko). i will keep your email and let you know if i find >a connection between our families. by the way, did your garndmother's >parents happen to live in florida? --

what was your grandfather's last name? did you say that your grandmother had tadevic cousins? were they here in the u.s.? Ashley Tiwara wrote: > Amy, > My grandfather and his brothers were in Illinois and Iowa. > Gram came two years after Grampa and went to Iowa and ran a boarding > house while he worked in the mines. They bought cut over boreal > forest in northern Wisconsin in 1916 and slowly turned it into a > farm. The family has since then been mostly in WI with cousins > mostly in IL. > > Ashley > > >hi! > > > >thank you so much to everyone for the help! i thought that mrkopalj might > >be the place to look, but i didn't know if croatian church records were > >still in the local churches or not. i will certainly order them and get > >started now! again many thanks for the help! > > > >ashley- the only names that i have so far are tadevich(formerly tadeyevic) > >and delost(of vrbovsko). i will keep your email and let you know if i find > >a connection between our families. by the way, did your garndmother's > >parents happen to live in florida? > > --

http://lists.rootsweb.com/index/intl/SVN/SLOVENIA.html ----- Original Message ----- From: <PUZEXPRESS@aol.com> To: <CROATIA-L@rootsweb.com> Sent: Sunday, January 27, 2002 9:07 AM Subject: [CROATIA-L] Slovenia > Can someone give me the e-mail address of the Slovenian web site similar to > this Croatian site? Thanks. > > Dick Puz >

My wife's second cousin recently connected with me via Rootsweb due to our common ancestor, Mata Sepic, born 1855/6 at Fiume/Rijeka. A delightful surprise email! She has added greatly to my knowledge of Mata's descendants but there is also a little Croatian twist which someone may be able to help me with. Mata married Margaret Elliott in 1882 in New South Wales. Two years later Margaret's sister Bridget married another Croatian believed to be a friend of Mata. Maybe they had been fellow seafarers and had travelled there together? The following lines show two entries for Bridget's marriage in the NSW marriage index:- 6413/ 1884, NATICH, MATELE = ELLIOTT, BRIDGET; NEWCASTLE 6413/ 1884, NATICK, NAHILL = ELLIOTT, BRIDGET; NEWCASTLE The diffierence in surnames is very straightforward, Natic spelt as pronounced by a Croatian or an English speaker but I am puzzled by the two forenames. Is Nahill the same as Matele in any way? Would the Croatian pronunciation of one sound like the English phonetic pronunciation of the other? What would have been the name in Croatia, i.e. what should I be searching for? As an aside, I would of course love to hear from anyone with any knowledge of this gentleman or his family. It may be that Mata and Matele/Nahill had lived in the same suburb/village etc. and finding his family may lead us nearer to the family of Mata Sepic. Tom Kidman

Good morning Frank, Do you have an phone listings for Daruvar or Hrastovac both SSE of Zagreb. Daruvar or Darowa is a pretty good sized town now. How can one one find phone directories for such places. I am looking for Krimpelbein in Hrastovac and Schön in Daruvar. Thanks, Ray ----- Original Message ----- From: "Frank Kurchina" <frankur@worldnet.att.net> To: <CROATIA-L@rootsweb.com> Sent: Saturday, January 26, 2002 12:34 PM Subject: Re: [CROATIA-L] where to look for records > > > amy davis wrote: > > > > hi! > > > > i am only to the point of ordering church records through the lds > > church. however, i have no idea what film to order for my two towns: > > sunger and vrbovsko. has anyone researched these towns? i would > > appreciate any assistance!! > > by the way, i am researching the family names: tadeyevic(now tadevich) > > and delost. thank you so much!! > > > > i just joined and it was wonderful to read about roanne's experience! i > > hope that when i go, that i too meet relatives! > > > > amy > > Sunger/Sungari/Sungeri/Sungri is located 65 miles WSW of Zagreb > in the Rijeka and Gorski Kotar region of Croatia. > > Vrbovsko is located 53 miles WSW of Zagreb in the > the Rijeka and Gorski Kotar region of Croatia. > > The Croatian telephone directory lists 23 surname Tadejevic' > (Tadejevich) under this region, including 3 surnames listed > under Sunger. > (In Croatian the letter j is pron. y) > > The Croatian telephone directory lists 13 surname Delost > under this region, including 2 surnames listed under Vrovsko. > > I see no LDS microfilms of parish church records listed for > Sunger or Vrovsko in the FH library catalog. > > So, call the International desk 800 number at LDS HQ in Salt Lake City > and ask Sylvie where the parish records (if any) for your villages > might be found ? > > Toll free number 1-800-453-3860, extension 2881. > > >