MKVIRG@aol.com wrote: > > I totally agree with Jim, that you should check out the alternate website for > Ellis Island. I have been looking for Janos Virgulak, and his son, John, who > according to John's Declaration of Intent stated that he came to America on > the Red Starline ship, The Vaderland, into the Port of New York on April 8, > 1902. I found Janos' wife Maria, and their three other children coming into > the US on the Ellis Island site, but by pure luck. Putting in the name > Virgulak, I got 1 hit, and it was not a relative, in fact, reading the > original Manifest the name did not look like Virgulak. I checked all of the > close hits and the alternate spelling hits, and nothing came up. Finally just > put in Ver** for the last name, thinking that sounded more like Virgulak than > Vir. I knew the name of the ship, the Nieuw Amsterdam, and the arrival, May > 21, 1907. I got a hit for Istvan Ver, who was on the Nieuw Amsterdam, for the > date of May 21, 1907, but the age was off by quite a few years. Long story > short, going through the text manifest, I found the right family, spelled > Virguljak. Now why the Ellis Island search engine did not connect Virguljak > with Virgulak, or at least as an alternate spelling is beyond me. I also > found Janos coming back over with his second son, Franjo, on September 11, > 1906, on the S.S. Kroonland, just as his Declaration of Intent states, but > their names are spelled Virguluk, and again the Ellis Island search engine > did not pick it up as close hits or an alternate hit. But, the other part of > this is that I could never find Janos and John coming in. Finally went on > Stephen Morse's site: http://home.pacbell.net/spmorse/ellis/ellis.html, and > put in the date, April 8, 1902, and sure enough, after some searching I found > the two of them listed on the Manifest for The Vaderland, arriving on April > 8, 1902, in the port of NY, just like the Declaration of Intent papers said. > But the last name was spelled Valyarik. Now, I am trying to figure out how > Virgulak became Valyarik. I do know it is them, the ages match up correctly, > and I spent the better part of the evening going through the entire manifest, > and those two were the only ones that come close. So, the moral of this very > long story is to check out Stephen Morse's website, and play around with the > name. Oh, and believe it or not, I could not find them on the Ellis Island > site, under Valyarik! Finally, after going through the entire manifest on the > pacbell site, I wrote down a few names that were very legible, and tried > those on the Ellis site, and just kept on checking for the year 1902 until I > came up with the right ship and date. And I did find them, under Malyarik! I, > for the life of me cannot understand how it was transcribed as that, unless > the people transcribing it were using a different manifest than what I saw. > It is definitely a "V". Now, for my question. Their last place of residence > is listed as Uj Loove. Anybody have any ideas where it is? Haven't checked > any thing out yet on it, but was wondering if anybody knew where it was. > Thanks for listening to my ramblings! And thanks for any help you can give. > Marge Duffy Virgulak The common place name prefix új means new in Hungarian. Probably hundreds of place names with this prefix. In Croatian it would be equivalent to novo + plus some name. If the transcriber had read the next letter after j correctly it was probably újlo..? What was the surname Virguljak village/town of origin ? The letter 'lj' is South Slavic; Croatia, Slovenija, etc. Perhaps can work backwards to Last Residence ? Where was Pinanica located ? > > De nobis fabula narratur, their story is our story > Genealogy: Where you confuse the dead and irritate the living. > Jesus, A Never Ending Friend > "Friends are God's way of taking care of us" > Beannachtai agus Siochain > > AN IRISH BLESSING > > May God grant you always > A sunbeam to warm you > A moonbeam to charm you > A sheltering angel > So nothing can harm you > Laughter to cheer you > Faithful friends near you > And whenever you pray > Heaven to hear you > >

Hell again Nicholas, There is another way to see the original manifest just go the site enter the date and the page number this will bring up page 187 HOWEVER that page is not the Francesca mentioned on the Passenger(it is the Columbia) info page of the Ellis Is web page. This is not uncommon! What I would suggest is to do a page by page search until you find the Francesca records. I am off to Minnesota for a few days so I can't look right now, but if you don't find the original ship manifest let me know. However there is a Cavle in Croatia which is - 78.9 miles WSW of Zagreb not far from Rijeka. http://www.mapquest.com/maps/map.adp?latlongtype=decimal&latitude=45.3500&lo ngitude=14.5000 Robert ----- Original Message ----- From: "Nicholas Haramija" <nharamija@comcast.net> To: <CROATIA-L@rootsweb.com> Sent: Wednesday, March 27, 2002 10:47 AM Subject: Re: [CROATIA-L] Cavle > I have no "Idea", as that is the name of the place where one Franjo Haramija > came from. The other Franjo came from Vivodina. > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Patty M." <ppmilich@calweb.com> > To: <CROATIA-L@rootsweb.com> > Sent: Tuesday, March 26, 2002 11:10 PM > Subject: Re: [CROATIA-L] Cavle > > > > Do you mean Konavle, as in Konavle Valley (Dalmatia)? > > > > Patty > > > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > From: "Nicholas Haramija" <nharamija@comcast.net> > > To: <CROATIA-L@rootsweb.com> > > Sent: Tuesday, March 26, 2002 5:59 AM > > Subject: [CROATIA-L] Cavle > > > > > > > I would Like to know if "Cavle" was under Austro-Hungarian rule in 1906? > > > > > > > >

----- Original Message ----- From: <JimTedrick@aol.com> To: <CROATIA-L@rootsweb.com> Sent: Wednesday, March 27, 2002 4:00 PM Subject: Re: [CROATIA-L] Austrian draft pre-WW1 > My great grandfather on line 14 of the Oceania from Trieste to NY on Feb. > 27.1913 listed he was going to see a brother in law who seems to be the > passenger on line 24 of the Amerika from hamburg to NY on Sept. 14.1912. The > man on line 24 seemed to be with the man on line 23. I am having a hard time > making out the writing for the two entries. The spelling of the two were the > interpritation of the EIR. If the man on line 24 is my great grand father's > brother in law, and my grandfather's uncle, I was wondering how close to Selo > Goricka their cities are to bolster the hunch that they are indeed connected. > thanks > Jim > Hello Jim, Mlaka is about 30 miles or so east of Selo Goricka. Robert

I had help from another kind reader of this site. He made out the brother in law's name on Gajo's ship record. His response was as follows: Hello Jim, >I will graciously except your offer to decipher the name on the manifest. My great grandfather's name is Did you notice that he had been in the US prior to this trip, 1902-1904 in Lebanon, PA? Looks like the person is brother in law, Jovan Malakovic. If you look at other capital M and lower case k you can see the similarities of those with the first and 5th letter in that name. After some searching I found a Jovan Maljkovic arr 1912 destination Lebanon, PA. Do you know which Gorica he was from? I don't believe I've followed your entire message thread. >Gajo Kukic' who is line # 14 on the Oceania passenger list that came in to New York on Feb. 27 1913 >from Trieste. Do you think he could have been traveling with the man above him on line #13? I could not >make out the city he came from The place is Mlaka which is along the Sava River about 62 miles SE of Zagreb. Difficult to say if they were traveling together or not, #13 was going to Conway, PA. Sense so many of these people left the US after coming here I wonder what records exist for their return trip? Thanks Jim

JimTedrick@aol.com wrote: > > I had help from another kind reader of this site. He made out the brother in > law's name on Gajo's ship record. His response was as follows: > Hello Jim, > > >I will graciously except your offer to decipher the name on the manifest. > My great grandfather's name is > > Did you notice that he had been in the US prior to this trip, 1902-1904 in > Lebanon, PA? Looks like the person is brother in law, Jovan Malakovic. > If you look at other capital M and lower case k you can see the similarities > of those with the first and 5th letter in that name. After some searching I > found a Jovan Maljkovic arr 1912 destination Lebanon, PA. Do you know > which Gorica he was from? I don't believe I've followed your entire message > thread. > > >Gajo Kukic' who is line # 14 on the Oceania passenger list that came in to > New York on Feb. 27 1913 >from Trieste. Do you think he could have been > traveling with the man above him on line #13? I could not >make out the city > he came from > > The place is Mlaka which is along the Sava River about 62 miles SE of > Zagreb. Difficult to say if they were traveling together or not, #13 was > going to Conway, PA. > Sense so many of these people left the US after coming here I wonder what > records exist for their return trip? None. Records are for U.S. ports of entry, not for departures from the U.S. to Europe. That would depend at which European port the ship docked. Jim The given name Jovan I also had deciphered , but that was all. But, believe have located Lucanip and Majki. 1) Luscanip and Majki are not Hungarian word spellings , so they must be Croatian place names. 2) Assume both places were located near your surname's Goric^ka. 3) Ship manifests are known for misspelled and poorly transcribed place names. A Luscani is located near Jabukovac and 15 miles distant from Goric^ka. And Majki is probably Maja which is located 36 miles SSE of Zagreb and 4 miles from Glina and 13 miles from Goric^ka. v Frank Kurcina

Hi, I just came back on the list after quite sometime. Hoping maybe I can find another clue to who my husbands family was. Stanley Lacich came to the US in 1929 from Croatia. I just received his Social Security record from the Coal Mine he worked to find his Father was Milo Lacich and Mother Catherine Dusvancich. They lived near Delmatia(sorry if that is not the correct spelling) Papa was born in 1901. He came to America alone and married Anna Tatomire in Allegheny Co, Pa. They had 5 sons, Theodore, Stanley, Joseph, Melvin and John. Teddy and Joseph are deceaced as is Mom and Papa. John believes he has some Aunts that still live in Croatia but has no idea who they are. His Dad did not speak much of them, even though he did go back to visit. Papa did tell me he had a sister named Pepe.

My great grandfather on line 14 of the Oceania from Trieste to NY on Feb. 27.1913 listed he was going to see a brother in law who seems to be the passenger on line 24 of the Amerika from hamburg to NY on Sept. 14.1912. The man on line 24 seemed to be with the man on line 23. I am having a hard time making out the writing for the two entries. The spelling of the two were the interpritation of the EIR. If the man on line 24 is my great grand father's brother in law, and my grandfather's uncle, I was wondering how close to Selo Goricka their cities are to bolster the hunch that they are indeed connected. thanks Jim

JimTedrick@aol.com wrote: > > My great grandfather on line 14 of the Oceania from Trieste to NY on Feb. > 27.1913 listed he was going to see a brother in law who seems to be the > passenger on line 24 of the Amerika from hamburg to NY on Sept. 14.1912. The > man on line 24 seemed to be with the man on line 23. I am having a hard time > making out the writing for the two entries. The spelling of the two were the > interpritation of the EIR. If the man on line 24 is my great grand father's > brother in law, and my grandfather's uncle, I was wondering how close to Selo > Goricka their cities are to bolster the hunch that they are indeed connected. > thanks > Jim Jim You could not read brother-in-laws name from ship manifest for Gajo Kukic' from Triest on February 26, 1913. But, you could read brother-in-laws name from ship manifest listing him emigrating through Hamburg on Sept. 14, 1912 ? How could this be correct ? What was his surname ? Before WW I, two major German ports of exit from Europe for emigrants were Hamburg and Bremen, Germany. The German police kept track of all aliens passing through these ports so information about surnames may be available ? The Hamburg Lists (1850-1934) are quite famous. http://www.genealogienetz.de/misc/emig/ham_pass.html http://www.familysearch.org/Eng/Search/rg/guide/Hamburg_Pass_List.ASP http://www.hamburg.de/fhh/behoerden/staatsarchiv/link_to_your_roots/index.htm v Frank Kurcina

I have no "Idea", as that is the name of the place where one Franjo Haramija came from. The other Franjo came from Vivodina. ----- Original Message ----- From: "Patty M." <ppmilich@calweb.com> To: <CROATIA-L@rootsweb.com> Sent: Tuesday, March 26, 2002 11:10 PM Subject: Re: [CROATIA-L] Cavle > Do you mean Konavle, as in Konavle Valley (Dalmatia)? > > Patty > > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Nicholas Haramija" <nharamija@comcast.net> > To: <CROATIA-L@rootsweb.com> > Sent: Tuesday, March 26, 2002 5:59 AM > Subject: [CROATIA-L] Cavle > > > > I would Like to know if "Cavle" was under Austro-Hungarian rule in 1906? > > > >

JimTedrick@aol.com wrote: > > Dear Frank: > Could you help me locate two cities from a manifest? They are Luscanip and > Majki in Hungary in 1912. > Thanks > Jim At this stage of investigation I don't know. Working from Hungarian place names have a list of 400 names that could be Luscanip ? Trying to work from Croatian language back to the ship manifest place name spelling is more difficult. One of the things that struck me was the fact that a number of the transcribers had difficulty distinguishing between the capital "L" and "S". For instance, they wrote "Losice" instead of "Sosice" (Croatia) For example, Majki could be Macki located 12 miles SSW of Zagreb. Or Luscanip might be Sus^ci located in Croatia ? Locating correct place name from EIR misspelled names is not a science. What was the surname(s) you were researching in EIR under which place names Luscanip and Majki were listed ? v Frank Kurcina

Here, you can find all Serbian surnames from Northern Dalmatia, Croatia. http://www.benkovac.org.yu/obicaji/prez.htm _________________________________________________________________ Send and receive Hotmail on your mobile device: http://mobile.msn.com

Dear Frank: Could you help me locate two cities from a manifest? They are Luscanip and Majki in Hungary in 1912. Thanks Jim

Robert, I was reviewing the messages on this list and found your request. I don't have any information about Jake but I do know some people with the similar last name Svicarovich in San Pedro and Rancho Palos Verdes, California. It is pronounced as Scaravich. Kathy Meznarich Jacobs RPETER8370@aol.com wrote: > Hello: > > I would very greatly appreciate the assistance of list members in securing > information relating to my grandfather, as set forth below, and/or his > surviving family members who may be presently residing in the area of Rijeka, > Croatia; > > Name: JAKE SCARAVICH - possible variations in spelling > STARCEVIC or STARCHEVICH > Date of Birth: May 10, 1878 > Place of Birth: Rijeka, Croatia - which was formerly known as Fiume, > Austria > Name of Father: Unknown > Name of Mother: Unknown > Date of Emigration > to America Approximately 1890 > Settlement in > America Savannah, Georgia, U.S.A. > > If there are descendants of JAKE SCARAVICH currently residing in Rijeka or > other areas of Croatia of if any list member has information relating to JAKE > SCARAVICH, > I would appreciate your contacting me at the e-mail address set forth below. > > Also, any suggestions as to who and/or what organization I should contact for > information will be appreciated. > > Your cooperation and assistance will be most welcomed. > > And, many thanks for your time and efforts. > > Robert Peterson > e-mail address: rpeter8370@AOL.com

Do you mean Konavle, as in Konavle Valley (Dalmatia)? Patty ----- Original Message ----- From: "Nicholas Haramija" <nharamija@comcast.net> To: <CROATIA-L@rootsweb.com> Sent: Tuesday, March 26, 2002 5:59 AM Subject: [CROATIA-L] Cavle > I would Like to know if "Cavle" was under Austro-Hungarian rule in 1906? >

Samokov is probably Samobor because there is a lot of Cackovic and Regovic family here in Samobor. ----- Original Message ----- From: Sandi Ludwa <runsl@yahoo.com> To: <CROATIA-L@rootsweb.com> Sent: Tuesday, March 26, 2002 3:16 PM Subject: [CROATIA-L] Researching Cackovic, Regovic Am new at this but am researching my dad - Cackovic (which I know there are not too many in the US) - settled in South Chicago in the 30's - Regovich, Anna and Josef came from Samokov, Croatia from port Bremen, Germany 9/26/05 Thanx. Sandi RunSL@yahoo.com __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Yahoo! Movies - coverage of the 74th Academy AwardsŽ http://movies.yahoo.com/

Thank you Frank. That is what I was afraid of. I am trying to separate two Fronjo Haramija's both born in 1888. One left from Cavle in 1906, aged 18 and the other from Vivodina, 1907, aged 19. I am trying to find my fathers Declaration of Intent to find where he was born . Nick ----- Original Message ----- From: "Frank Kurchina" <frankur@worldnet.att.net> To: <CROATIA-L@rootsweb.com> Sent: Tuesday, March 26, 2002 9:54 AM Subject: Re: [CROATIA-L] Cavle > > > Nicholas Haramija wrote: > > > > I would Like to know if "Cavle" was under Austro-Hungarian rule in 1906? > > Yes. > C^avle is located 80 miles WSW of Zagreb and near Rijeka (C) Fiume (I) > 1867-1918 this was part of the Austro-Hungarian Monarchy. > Actually located in Modrus-Fiume megye (county), Hungary. > And Croatia-Slavonia was ruled by the Kingdom of Hungary. > > 1919-1947 C^avle and Rijeka/Fiume were under Italian rule. >

Just to get my surnames out there again, I am researching Bakic, Matkovic and Vuksic. Interested in hearing from anyone researching those names, or who may have information. Dave M

I would Like to know if "Cavle" was under Austro-Hungarian rule in 1906?

Sandi Ludwa wrote: > > Am new at this but am researching my dad - Cackovic > (which I know there are not too many in the US) - > settled in South Chicago in the 30's - > > Regovich, Anna and Josef came from Samokov, Croatia > from port Bremen, Germany 9/26/05 > > Thanx. > Sandi > RunSL@yahoo.com Don't know your surnames. Probably 35 surname Cackovic bearers in the U.S. 22 surname Cackovic emigrated to the U.S. 1892-1924. Some were from Pisarovina, Croatia which is located 16 miles distant from Zagreb. Wonder if Regovich from Samokov were from Samobor which is located 14 miles west of Zagreb ? > > __________________________________________________ > Do You Yahoo!? > Yahoo! Movies - coverage of the 74th Academy Awards® > http://movies.yahoo.com/

Nicholas Haramija wrote: > > I would Like to know if "Cavle" was under Austro-Hungarian rule in 1906? Yes. C^avle is located 80 miles WSW of Zagreb and near Rijeka (C) Fiume (I) 1867-1918 this was part of the Austro-Hungarian Monarchy. Actually located in Modrus-Fiume megye (county), Hungary. And Croatia-Slavonia was ruled by the Kingdom of Hungary. 1919-1947 C^avle and Rijeka/Fiume were under Italian rule.