Hello Mary If I could be so bold to ask, if you have a chance while looking at this film from Virovitica if you see the name Delbijanko or Delbijanco could you please let me know and I'll order the film in to view myself. My aunt's father and his family were from this village. regards Mary Lawrie

----- Original Message ----- From: "Birkholz, James" <James.Birkholz@usa.okmetic.com> To: <CROATIA-L@rootsweb.com> Sent: Tuesday, April 23, 2002 7:08 PM Subject: [CROATIA-L] Belobraidic from Grubisno Polje > I'm new to this list and to Croatian research. > > My wife is descended from a Mato Belobraidic of Grubisno Polje and Helena > Skuban of an unknown location ("Cicilia Sloyerska"). Here are listings from online phone book for Bjelovar County where Grubisno Polje is located. Polje means field. Belo means white. 01. BELOBRAJDIC DAVOR BJELOVAR, IVANA GUNDULICA 14 (+385) 43 242 725 02. BELOBRAJDIC IVAN VELIKI GRDjEVAC, BJELOVARSKA 2 (+385) 43 461 522 03. BELOBRAJDIC JOSIP GRUBISNO POLJE, LIPOVAC 32 (+385) 43 486 030 04. BELOBRAJDIC SASA BJELOVAR, AUGUSTA SENOE 26 (+385) 43 242 989 There are 2 listings for SKUBAN in Croatia phone book both farther east in Vukovar. > > We were overjoyed to discover the films in the LDS catalog from the 1995 > filming and have just returned from our first look at them. > > We are pretty sure that we've successfully found Mato's birth and his > parent's marriage records, despite knowing no Croatian or Latin. I'll copy, > scan and post the images of these records later and ask for help deciphering > the parts we haven't figured out. (We ran out of time to do so today.) I > would like to see if anyone can help with some of the questions from our > best guesses about some spellings. > > Is there a Croatian FAQ somewhere? Specifically, is there a guide to common > Croatian genealogy terms? You can find those terms at this link: http://www.croatia-in-english.com/gen/glossary.html Also if you go to the home page, Tom Ninkovich, has some other excellent info about those church records. > > Does anyone have ideas about the correct spelling of these words (and > English equivelents, if they exist)? > I presume that some names might be spelled in Croatian and some were > Latin-ized. > > Given names: > (Male) > Maricg or Marvicg > Autun or Antun Anthony > Kata Kathy Kata is a diminutive of Katarina, as Kathy is a diminutive of Katerine. > Toma Thomas, Tom > Lullo or Lucas (appears to be 2 ascenders in the first spelling, is there a > version of Lucas that might be Luko?) That would be Luka > Mato (sure of the spelling, but wonder about the English version or > versions. I think I've seen references to him using Matt and Michael). Mato is Matt or Mathew not Michael > Nikola vs Nicolaus Nikola is Croatian for Nicholaus > Stephanus and Josephus are obviously Stephan and Joseph, but are these > Croatian spellings or Latin? These are Latin, Croatian would be Stjepan=Stephen, Stipe=Steve > Ivan (is this a Croation spelling?) (pretty sure that Ivan is equal to John, > no?) Yes Ivan is John and it is a Croatian sp. other variations would be Ivo, Ivica these are both diminutives of Ivan > Dragntin (later went by Charles, but that may have been given by the > orphanage) Dragutin = Charles, feminine would be Draga = Caroline > > (Female) > Mara or Marta Mara = Mary, Marta = Martha > Cecilija Cecilia > Janna or Jana Diminutive of Ivana (feminine of John) Croatian skier, winner of 4 gold medals in Salt Lake City Olympic games is Janica Kostelic. > Mio Don't believe there is a direct translation > > Surnames: > Noralic' or Novalic' No listings for above surnames in Croatian phone book > Sutic' or Sutric' SUTIC occurs in Croatia phone book SUTRIC does not > Saboljic' SABOLJIC not found in phone book however SABOLIC is found > Jakoric' or Jakovic' No listings for JOKORIC howeve JAKOVIC and JAKOPIC are found. Most likely JAKOVIC, Jakov is Jacob -IC ending means son of > Jealic' (first letter is really questionable) > Lekjic' > Kamber (this must be a bad extraction) > > Other words: > nadj. (I presume this means "born" as in "nee") > selj. or seljai (I'm guessing this is an occupation or class, like "farmer" > or "laborer") seljak is farmer > seljai ?mxt? or ?mkt.? (often the seljai or selj. was followed by a three > letter word) > > I presume "i" or "i."? is "and".. i (sounds like ee means and) > Rodeni is births, not christenings, right? Yes Here is my links page which you may find useful http://www.croatia-in-english.com/rj/index.html Now once this is finished, the next step.... is to visit the beautiful land of your wife's ancestors! You will find some great tourism links in my list. Best of Luck with your search! Let me know if I can be of further help. Robert Jerin Croatian Heritage Museum Cleveland, Ohio

on 4/23/02 7:21 PM, Maryanne Lawrie at m.lawrie@walter.net.au wrote: > Hello Mary > > If I could be so bold to ask, if you have a chance while looking at this > film from Virovitica if you see the name Delbijanko or Delbijanco could you > please let me know and I'll order the film in to view myself. My aunt's > father and his family were from this village. > regards > Mary Lawrie Hi Mary, I'll check it out for you. The earliest I can get back to LDS is May 7th. Mary

on 4/22/02 4:18 PM, Frank Kurchina at frankur@worldnet.att.net wrote: > > > Mary Hegarty wrote: >> >> Hi List! >> I've been looking through films at LDS and it's been pretty discouraging. >> I'm not finished yet so maybe something will show up. My grandfather's name >> was Emil Fanta and his son, my uncle, was Charles Fanta. Emil would have >> been born probably in the 1870s and Charles would have been born around 1901 >> in Croatia. It is not a very common name but in the death index I did find >> an Emil and Charles Fanta who appear to be brothers. Their DOBs don't fit >> with my grandfather and uncle but because the names are the same I'm >> wondering if they might be relatives. My question is how do I find out about >> these two people from death records? Can I get their birthplaces and other >> family information? >> Through a google search Ifound an Emil Fanta on a holocaust list and on an >> insurance list. On the holocaust list his DOB was not there (the only one!) >> On the insurance list the DOB was 1878. This is possible. The records are in >> Vienna but I'm not sure how to contact these people. >> My other question is that on my grandmother's and my two aunts' ship >> manifest it shows their birthplaces as Virovitica but on the passenger >> record they show Verovitica. I ordered everything for Virovitica but I >> realize that there is also a Verovitica. >> Mary Hegarty > > Virovitica/Virovitisa is located 67 miles east of Zagreb. > Where is Verovitica located ? > Veroviditz was the German spelling for Virovitica. > Veroviticza was its Hungarian place name. > > The Croatian telephone directory list 12 surnames Pavlekovic' listed > under Virovitica z^upanija (county), Croatia. > One surname Pavlekovic' is listed under Virovitica (town) > > > The LDS filmed the R.C. parish church records (1686-1917) for Veröcze > (also known as Veroviditz, Verovicza, or Veroviticza), Slavonien, > Austria; later Verocze, Verocze, Hungary; now Virovitica, Croatia. > Text in Latin and Croatian. > > You need surnames birthplaces before you can research possible surnames > birth and death records ? > > > Pre-WW I, the surname Fanta is found in Hungary and Czechoslovakia. > Don't know if from Croatia or Czechoslovakia because neither country > existed back then. > The Holocaust records listing an Emil Fanta were for the Czech Republic. > > v > Frank Kurcina Frank, Thank you. How did you find out that Fanta was found in pre WWI Hungary and Czechoslovakia? Also, how did you find out that the holocaust records were from the Czech Republic? The insurance company record is a mystery. There is what appears to be a partial phone number listed. The company name seems to be OVAG. I did a search for it and OVAG is the power company. Mary

I'm new to this list and to Croatian research. My wife is descended from a Mato Belobraidic of Grubisno Polje and Helena Skuban of an unknown location ("Cicilia Sloyerska"). We were overjoyed to discover the films in the LDS catalog from the 1995 filming and have just returned from our first look at them. We are pretty sure that we've successfully found Mato's birth and his parent's marriage records, despite knowing no Croatian or Latin. I'll copy, scan and post the images of these records later and ask for help deciphering the parts we haven't figured out. (We ran out of time to do so today.) I would like to see if anyone can help with some of the questions from our best guesses about some spellings. Is there a Croatian FAQ somewhere? Specifically, is there a guide to common Croatian genealogy terms? Does anyone have ideas about the correct spelling of these words (and English equivelents, if they exist)? I presume that some names might be spelled in Croatian and some were Latin-ized. Given names: (Male) Maricg or Marvicg Autun or Antun Kata Toma Lullo or Lucas (appears to be 2 ascenders in the first spelling, is there a version of Lucas that might be Luko?) Mato (sure of the spelling, but wonder about the English version or versions. I think I've seen references to him using Matt and Michael). Nikola vs Nicolaus Stephanus and Josephus are obviously Stephan and Joseph, but are these Croatian spellings or Latin? Ivan (is this a Croation spelling?) (pretty sure that Ivan is equal to John, no?) Dragntin (later went by Charles, but that may have been given by the orphanage) (Female) Mara or Marta Cecilija Janna or Jana Mio Surnames: Noralic' or Novalic' Sutic' or Sutric' Saboljic' Jakoric' or Jakovic' Jealic' (first letter is really questionable) Lekjic' Kamber (this must be a bad extraction) Other words: nadj. (I presume this means "born" as in "nee") selj. or seljai (I'm guessing this is an occupation or class, like "farmer" or "laborer") seljai ?mxt? or ?mkt.? (often the seljai or selj. was followed by a three letter word) I presume "i" or "i."? is "and".. Rodeni is births, not christenings, right? These films are #2065182 (births 1878-90) and #2065182 (marriages 1858-1914, deaths 1878-90) for Grubisno Polje and some other nearby town that I don't remember. We also have #1419020 (birth 1835-57, marriage (1772-1826), death (1772-1819) for Bjelovar. I'll be happy to do lookups, time permitting. James Birkholz

This program will air on April 25, 2002 on Cleveland PBS channel 25 at 9:00 PM and again at 1:00 AM on April 26th. I don't know if any other PBS stations will show this program at that time. Check local listings for that info. http://www.pbs.org/ This 30-min film follows the journey of Maira Kraljevic on her visit to Croatia, the country her grandparents left in the 1920s. In the summer of 2000, following her graduation from college, Maria travels to the island of Brac, where she stays in her mother's family home, attends the village church, and traces her genealogy. Back in Zagreb, she shares experiences and compares attitudes with her young Croatian cousins. Music and Poetry: All music in the video is traditional Croatian folk music, performed by "Rusulice," an amateur a cappella group from the island of Brac in Croatia. The Conductor and Music Director is a local music teacher, Prof. Prosper Kuzmanic. Poem: "Brocanin I Stina," by Stjepan Puliselic. Producers: Co producers are Lois Bianchi and Tena Perisin. Robert Jerin

The newspaper, Zajednicar, is published weekly by the Croatian Fraternal Union. For more information please contact them at cfufa@ussor.net, not me. I have no further information and am only condensing this in hopes of helping others make connections. Ashley ********************************** Zajednicar on April 17, 2002 among the articles, Milwaukee Croatian Church sets 85th Anniversary Celebration April 28 at 10:30, combined English/Croatian mass at Sacred Heart Croatian Church, followed by a reception. Reservations are necessary for that, please call Fr. Paul at 414) 774-9418. In a different article, rummage sale May 17 and 18 article: Genealogist Seeks STIMACS Grandfather Joseph STIMAC married twice, first wife unknown, second wife Mary unknown. Grandmother Josipa STIMAC child of Andrew STIMAC and Frances unknown. Areas of Michigan and Illinois, origion not given, says is known website: http://www.lipovsek.org contact Phyllis LIPOSEK BITTNER at 306 N. 9th, Arma, KS 66712 Phyllis, isn't that you on this list? Why aren't you typing this and not me? Name typed as shown in Z. article: Bozic/Bozich Popular Croatian Name Coat of arms shown, some history of name, see also his web site, http://www.croatians.com, author Adam S. Eterovich article: Janica Kostelic Poster Available http://www.croatiagifts.com or phone toll free 877-906-8314 Obituaries Eli DEANOVIC born 1919 to Tom and Mary DEANOVIC, died 2001, one of 7 children, Cleveland Ohio married Katherine VAN DUSER, photo Anne RADOSH born 1911 Torrance PA to Michael and Catherine MICKACH VUKSON, married Tony RADOSH, died 2002 Anne Irene KAUZLARICH MIHALOVICH born 1907 Des Moines, Ia, to Pete and Josephine SCHWAB [ likely SVOB ] KAUZLARICH, married John MIHALOVICH, died 2002, 10 great -grandchildren, 2 great-great-grandchildren Anna KOSOVEC MARSILIO born 1925 Burgettstown, PA to John D and Thersea GAZBODA KOSOVEC, married Joseph F. MARSILIO, photo, died 2002 Anton SAMANIC born Krk 88 years ago, died 2002, met and marrried Marica PAVLIN, also seeking asylum, in Paris, with assistance of her uncle George BIZAN, came to MN, later to Chicago In memoriam George SKERTICH from his sisters Ann, Helen and Mary, brothers Mike, Joe, Nick, and Pete, and many nieces and nephews --

Mary Hegarty wrote: > > Hi List! > I've been looking through films at LDS and it's been pretty discouraging. > I'm not finished yet so maybe something will show up. My grandfather's name > was Emil Fanta and his son, my uncle, was Charles Fanta. Emil would have > been born probably in the 1870s and Charles would have been born around 1901 > in Croatia. It is not a very common name but in the death index I did find > an Emil and Charles Fanta who appear to be brothers. Their DOBs don't fit > with my grandfather and uncle but because the names are the same I'm > wondering if they might be relatives. My question is how do I find out about > these two people from death records? Can I get their birthplaces and other > family information? > Through a google search Ifound an Emil Fanta on a holocaust list and on an > insurance list. On the holocaust list his DOB was not there (the only one!) > On the insurance list the DOB was 1878. This is possible. The records are in > Vienna but I'm not sure how to contact these people. > My other question is that on my grandmother's and my two aunts' ship > manifest it shows their birthplaces as Virovitica but on the passenger > record they show Verovitica. I ordered everything for Virovitica but I > realize that there is also a Verovitica. > Mary Hegarty Virovitica/Virovitisa is located 67 miles east of Zagreb. Where is Verovitica located ? Veroviditz was the German spelling for Virovitica. Veroviticza was its Hungarian place name. The Croatian telephone directory list 12 surnames Pavlekovic' listed under Virovitica z^upanija (county), Croatia. One surname Pavlekovic' is listed under Virovitica (town) The LDS filmed the R.C. parish church records (1686-1917) for Veröcze (also known as Veroviditz, Verovicza, or Veroviticza), Slavonien, Austria; later Verocze, Verocze, Hungary; now Virovitica, Croatia. Text in Latin and Croatian. You need surnames birthplaces before you can research possible surnames birth and death records ? Pre-WW I, the surname Fanta is found in Hungary and Czechoslovakia. Don't know if from Croatia or Czechoslovakia because neither country existed back then. The Holocaust records listing an Emil Fanta were for the Czech Republic. v Frank Kurcina

Hi List! I've been looking through films at LDS and it's been pretty discouraging. I'm not finished yet so maybe something will show up. My grandfather's name was Emil Fanta and his son, my uncle, was Charles Fanta. Emil would have been born probably in the 1870s and Charles would have been born around 1901 in Croatia. It is not a very common name but in the death index I did find an Emil and Charles Fanta who appear to be brothers. Their DOBs don't fit with my grandfather and uncle but because the names are the same I'm wondering if they might be relatives. My question is how do I find out about these two people from death records? Can I get their birthplaces and other family information? Through a google search Ifound an Emil Fanta on a holocaust list and on an insurance list. On the holocaust list his DOB was not there (the only one!) On the insurance list the DOB was 1878. This is possible. The records are in Vienna but I'm not sure how to contact these people. My other question is that on my grandmother's and my two aunts' ship manifest it shows their birthplaces as Virovitica but on the passenger record they show Verovitica. I ordered everything for Virovitica but I realize that there is also a Verovitica. Mary Hegarty

Hello to the list, My children and I have just returned from our trip to Croatia, Slovenia and Italy. Besides meeting relatives, we were on a mission to seek more information on our relatives that had emigrated from there to America. I am sharing what we found and you will find it on this and subsequent e-mails. Many who have previously contributed to this list have spoken about the generous hospitality and friendliness of the Croatians and our experience exactly duplicated that. They are a warm and loving people who, as one said, have been conquered many times but who have never set out to conquer anyone else. One thing I found that was new to me were the private records kept by each Catholic Church parish (or zupa) when the Yugoslavia Government required that the historical birth and death records be turned over to the government. Many of those records turned over to the government, of course, are the ones available through the LDS family history centers covering a period up to the latter 19th/early 20th centuries. I had tried to research the microfilms prior to our trip and had had some success. (The key for me was always finding marriage records as these are the only records that more or less provide a family tree road map.) If you stop and think about it, requiring that the records be turned over to the government was analogous to a tradesman being required to turn over the tools with which he made a living. Hence just as a carpenter couldn't live without his hammer and the farmer without his shovel, the priests devised ways to retain sufficient information they needed to administer to their church members. This information is generally referred to as the priest's, church's or zupa's personal or private records. Further, there are certain other records that were never required to be turned over to the government that can be useful. I make no pretense that we looked at many or all zupas; to the contrary, we looked at two and so I pass along to you what I found as it was new to me and, perhaps, can be duplicated and therefore helpful to you. And at the moment, I know of no way to obtain it other than through someone's personal request to the priest in charge of the zupa or church. Here is a summary of what we found: 1. In the Kastav zupa (and from an intuitive logical sense-other zupas), the priests kept private records or journals over the years that allowed them to find information quickly without having to go to the many original volumes. You have to imagine the large number of heavy volumes (perhaps 15-20 pounds each) with separate ones for births, deaths and marriages and the difficulty in finding specific information in a timely fashion. Without a short-cut, it was about the same process as we researchers have to go through other than they had physical possession of the volumes. In this zupa, the private records, again similarly bound in those huge original volumes where the paper tends to crumble in your fingers, is organized by village and within village by surname, then house number. We found our family page. This one page summary covers our family back to 1826 (originating dates vary widely dependent upon when the family settled in the village; I have no idea what the earliest dates would be covered by other summary pages). The summary data provide a chronology that include the names of all family members as well as the dates of birth, death and marriage. The last entry date for us was in the 1940s. And all of this is summarized on one page. IMAGINE. Beyond tracking the hierarchy of eldest son to eldest son who inherited the family home, other anecdotal information can also be found. This includes, at times, the names of the spouses your family's children married and where these spouses originated, such as another village in the zupa. Therefore, this page and others like it are a cross reference index. For example, if you followed a woman from your family summary to the volume and page containing the village and family of her husband, you will find the marriage date recorded there and all the similar family data kept on the husband's family. Think about it! Gads, this is GOLD MINE INFORMATION for researchers literally at your fingertips (albeit some many thousands of miles away). 2. At the zupa located in Kuzelj, we found a duplicate set of the records that had been turned over to the government. These are handwritten on the same type of ledger paper bound in huge volumes as covered by the microfilm. Admittedly, this is a small zupa where physically duplicating the records was feasible. So, if you cannot find the entry on microfilm because the image is poor quality (or covered by those maddening separate pages that the people microfilming didn't bother to turn over to microfilm the underlying data), this parish has it. 3. This parish and others have records you may not have thought of like a listing of all individuals who had been confirmed in the church. In this zupa, this was a straight chronological listing covering many many decades and, perhaps, centuries. The priests we dealt with were cordial, cooperative and seemed most willing to help. Our visit came during the week leading up to Easter which is a very busy time for them. Yet, by personal approach or through a family member, each made time to help us find records and, in one case, photocopied the information for us. I, in turn, made a voluntary contribution to their church after completing the search. Dick Puz

Hello Amy, The way that I have found that seems to work is to go to Croatian Postal Code Page, find the code for Vrbovsko then search for all the towns with that code. It works. You can find the Postal code page in my links list. Robert Jerin ----- Original Message ----- From: "amy davis" <amy@syndromedist.com> To: <CROATIA-L@rootsweb.com> Sent: Saturday, April 20, 2002 11:46 PM Subject: [CROATIA-L] church records for vrbovsko > hi! > > does anyone know what town has/had the closest church to vrbovsko? i > have come up with ravna gora, using the lds catalog. thank you. >

Zdravo Frank, but I can also eat and drink in Italian. Your news will save ordering the films. Looks like the long way is the only way. Other than writing letters of which there are numerous samples, what's the go re payment and how much say for a Parish or the archive office. I would expect that cash in the envelope is not the way. My father in 1942 went to the "zastavnicka skola" in Zagreb and than served with the NDH army and he went under the name Kolovica. As you probably gather the roots go into Italy, Udine which is even more interesting in trying to find some info as Italian I don't speak. But that's another challenge. One day at a time. Regards, Branko Colavizza branko.colavizza@bigpond.com http://www.geocities.com/bcolaau/ -----Original Message----- From: Frank Kurchina [mailto:frankur@worldnet.att.net] Sent: Saturday, 20 April 2002 5:36 AM To: Branko Colavizza Subject: Re: [CROATIA-L] Domitrovic > Hi Frank, > Again, thanks. I'll order the films you nominated and see what is unearthed, > beyond that I imagine it's every man for himself. > What about military records, I know my father served during WWII. > Regards, > Branko Colavizza Zdravo (although some prefer Italian Ciao) So your mother's b.c. stated : Z^upni ured-Lukovdol Prebivalis^te i nadlez^nost - Osojnik Kotar - Karlovac parish church office - Lukovdol residence and jurisdiction district- Karlovac So LDS filmed the church records for the other Osojnik located in the Dubrovnik (Ragusa) region. In 1945, all birth, marriage, and death records held by churches in Croatia were turned over to the civil authorities and were deposited with the 'opc'ina' (community city office). For small villages or places that did not have a city office - the opc'ina would then be in the next largest village or town. There are 416 municipalities (opc'ine sg. opc'ina) under the 20 z^upanija (county) in Croatia. Croatia has 6694 settlements, consisting of 205 cities and 6489 villages. Churches were allowed to keep only baptismal records and Status Animarun (i.e. Stanju Dusa (Status of Souls) - the so-called "Knjiga Dusa" - "A Book of Souls". This is a census-like document listing family memebers; i.e. a genealogical record of any one generation and lists the man and woman upon marriage and each child as born ; commented if emigrated or had died. Any birth and death records older than 1860 were turned over to the Croatian historical archives. My understanding is that all religious records had been collected in 12 regional State Archives, located at: Varaz^din, Zagreb, Bjelovar, Pazin, Rijeka, Karlovac, Zadar, Split, Dubrovnik, Sisak, Slavonski Brod, and Osijek. * The Croatian National Archives (Hrvatski Drz^avni Arhiv) located in Zagreb is main depository of old church records for many parts of the country. * address : Hrvatski drz^avni arhiv Marulicev trg 21 10000 Zagreb Hrvatska email : hda@arhiv.hr address : Drz^avni arhiv Karlovac Lj. S^estica 5 47000 Karlovac Hrvatska As for military records from WW 2 era. Your father served during WW II. In what country and for which group ? The Germans and Italians invaded Yugoslavia in 1941. Some Croatians and Slovenes were pro-German and fought against the Communists. The Communist Yugoslavs killed their POWs after the war had ended in 1945. I fought against the German Army in France, Germany, and Czechoslovakia. 1950-1952 I fought against the Communist NKs and later the Chinese in Korea. v Frank Kurcina

hi! does anyone know what town has/had the closest church to vrbovsko? i have come up with ravna gora, using the lds catalog. thank you.

Hi Frank, Again, thanks. I'll order the films you nominated and see what is unearthed, beyond that I imagine it's every man for himself. What about military records, I know my father served during WWII. Regards, Branko Colavizza branko.colavizza@bigpond.com http://www.geocities.com/bcolaau/ -----Original Message----- From: Frank Kurchina [mailto:frankur@worldnet.att.net] Sent: Friday, 19 April 2002 4:53 AM To: branko.colavizza@bigpond.com Subject: Re: [CROATIA-L] Domitrovic Branko Colavizza wrote: > > Hi Frank, > > Thanks for the info. I have located the LDS centre close to me and have only > managed to identify 1 roll of film for Croatia which I find strange. I'm > interested in the Lukovdol Parish in Osojnik in Karlovac, prior to 1927. Can > you help with any film numbers which I should be able to source in the local > LDS centre in Australia. > > Regards, > Branko Colavizza > branko.colavizza@bigpond.com > http://www.geocities.com/bcolaau/ 1) Osojnik (Dubrovnik) located 237 miles SSE of Zagreb. 2) Osojnik located 48 miles SW of Zagreb. Lukovdol is located 49 miles WSW of Zagreb and at the Slovenian border. Unfortunately, The LDS only filmed the R.C. parish church records (1825-1920) for Z^upa (parish) Osojnik 1, Dalmatia, Austria; now Osojnik, Croatia. Text in Italian, Latin, and Croatian. film # 1922630 2121883 2121884 The microfilms in Australia should be identical to those available any where else in the world. The only difference is that since all microfilms are sent from main LDS Library in Salt Lake City, UT, U.S.A., they take longer to arrive at local LDS centers in Australia. v Frank Kurcina

Hi Robert, Thanks, yes I am looking for church records. I have spoken with my mother and we have examined her birth certificate and it states ZUPNI URED - LUKOVDOL PREBIVALISTE I NADLEZNOST - OSOJNIK KOTAR - KARLOVAC I have my mothers records but I want to go backwards as my granparents and their parents all lived in Osojnik so we figure that it should also be the same Parish. Looks like the easiest method will be the tried and tested letter. Yes, I've also looked at the phone book and Domitrovic is almost as common as Smith especially when you get out of Osojnik but apparently like with Smith a lot of them were not related. To obtain records from the Registrars Office what sort and amount of information is required to be provided because when I go beyond my parents all I have is names, no dates. Regards, Branko Colavizza branko.colavizza@bigpond.com http://www.geocities.com/bcolaau/ -----Original Message----- From: Robert Jerin [mailto:rjerin@adelphia.net] Sent: Friday, 19 April 2002 12:32 AM To: branko.colavizza@bigpond.com Subject: Re: [CROATIA-L] Domitrovic Hello Branko, Are you looking for church records for Lukovdol or for Osojnik? For Lukovdol apparently the LDS does not have microfilm records for this parish, the easiest way to find what records they have is to search for Lukovdol (no need to enter Croaita as the search will find all places with that name)at the web page below: http://www.familysearch.com/Eng/Library/fhlcatalog/supermainframeset.asp?dis play=localitysearch&columns=*,180,0 From the Croatia online phone book here is the church and address info for the church at Lukovdol: KATOLICKA CRKVA-RIJECKA NADBISKUPIJA Address- LUKOVDOL 31 Country, Postal Code and Town- HR-51328 LUKOVDOL ZUPNI URED UZNESENJA BDM Phone -385 51 871 243 Now if it is for someone from Osojnik I am not certain what the parish was for that village. One way that I try to determine what the parish is/was for a place is to check Postal Code, here is what I found entering Osojnik's Code and asking for all places in that postal code area MJESTO BROJ PU NAZIV POŠTANSKOG UREDA DAMALJ 51329 SEVERIN NA KUPI DRAGA LUKOVDOLSKA 51329 SEVERIN NA KUPI KLANAC 51329 SEVERIN NA KUPI LIPLJE 51329 SEVERIN NA KUPI MALI JADRC 51329 SEVERIN NA KUPI MOCILE 51329 SEVERIN NA KUPI OSOJNIK 51329 SEVERIN NA KUPI PLECIVICA 51329 SEVERIN NA KUPI PONIKVE 51329 SEVERIN NA KUPI RIM 51329 SEVERIN NA KUPI SEVERIN NA KUPI 51329 SEVERIN NA KUPI SMIŠLJAK 51329 SEVERIN NA KUPI VELIKI JADRC 51329 SEVERIN NA KUPI ZDIHOVO 51329 SEVERIN NA KUPI Checking by browsing activities, Religous..., and then Churches I found no church for any of those places. So Lukovdol may be the parish for Osojnik. If you click on home from my link list you will find a tutorial on how to write a letter to a parish asking for records, Tom Ninkovich who began that web page along with others has an example letter in Eng and Croatian and how to ask and how much to expect to donate to the church for this work. http://www.croatia-in-english.com/rj/index.html Also you can get simple birth, marriage records, etc from the Maticni Ured, Registrars Office for that municipality by wrting them, they have a set fee for that service. However they are not detailed as the church records would be, the church records read sort of like a family tree. I am not certain which municipality Osojnik would be located in, Cabar is the closest one listed in the phone book in Primorsko-goransko county. Here are DOMITROVIC listings in Osojnik. 20. DOMITROVIC ZDRAVKO OSOJNIK, OSOJNIK 3 (+385) 51 872 051 21. DOMITROVIC ZVONKO OSOJNIK, OSOJNIK 57 (+385) 51 872 045 22. DOMITROVIC ZVONKO OSOJNIK, OSOJNIK 39 (+385) 51 872 047 Robert Jerin Croatian Heritage Museum Cleveland, Ohio ----- Original Message ----- From: "Branko Colavizza" <branko.colavizza@bigpond.com> To: <CROATIA-L@rootsweb.com> Sent: Thursday, April 18, 2002 9:18 AM Subject: RE: [CROATIA-L] Domitrovic > Hi Frank, > > Thanks for the info. I have located the LDS centre close to me and have only > managed to identify 1 roll of film for Croatia which I find strange. I'm > interested in the Lukovdol Parish in Osojnik in Karlovac, prior to 1927. Can > you help with any film numbers which I should be able to source in the local > LDS centre in Australia. > > > > Regards, > Branko Colavizza > branko.colavizza@bigpond.com > http://www.geocities.com/bcolaau/ > > -----Original Message----- > From: Frank Kurchina [mailto:frankur@worldnet.att.net] > Sent: Thursday, 28 February 2002 7:05 AM > To: CROATIA-L@rootsweb.com > Subject: Re: [CROATIA-L] Domitrovic and Colavizza (Kolovica) > > > > > Branko wrote: > > > > Hi folks, > > > > I'm new to this game and need some advice. I have traced through living > > relatives the two family names back to somewhere in the 1850's and can not > > proceed. The Colavizza name goes into Italy (Udine) where records appear > not > > to exist prior to 1870. I have found a family in Columbia who would appear > > to relate but again all goes back to Udine. > > > > The Domitrovic name goes back into Osojnik and little to get on with. > > > > If there is anyone out there that can point me in the right direction or > > even relate to these two names I would welcome the information. What I > have > > to date has been posted at http://www.geocities.com/bcolaau/ > > > > -------------------------------------------------------- > > Regards, > > Branko Colavizza > > branko.colavizza@bigpond.com > > http://www.geocities.com/bcolaau/ > > More Slavic surnames begin with the initial letter K > than other letters. > > Italian has no letter K and uses the letter C instead. > [letter 'C' (before e/i) is pron. as phonetic ch > letter 'C' (before a/o/u) is pron. as phonetic k] > > The Italian letter z is generally pron. like ts. > Any consonants can be doubled for a more foreceful sound. > In most Slavic languages the plain letter c is pron. ts. > > So would expect that surname Colavizza is the Italian > equivalent of the surname Kolovica. > > Following WW 1, Italy took for itself the southwestern portion of > duchy of Carniola, the county of Gorizia-Gradisca, the margraviate of > Istria, the town of Trieste, the southern portion of the county of > Tyrol, city of Zadar /Zara (formerly part of the Kingdom of Dalmatia), > and the islands of Cherso/Ceres, Lusino/Los^inj, and Lagosta/Lastovo > > When the Italian Fascists took power in the 1930s they forced some > Croatians in territory mentioned below to convert their surnames to > Italian names. > > Trieste (I) Trst (C/Sl) Triest (G) > In 1926, Trieste, Istria, southwestern Carniola, and northern Dalmatia > was divided into the districts of Trieste/Trst Rijeka/Fiume, and > Pula/Pola > by Italy. > > 1815-1866 Istria (including Trieste) was part of the Austrian Empire. > > 1867-1918 Istria was part of of Austria under the dual Austro-Hungarian > Monarchy. > > 1918-1947 Istria was part of Italy, not Croatia or Yugoslavia. > > The 1947 (WW 2) peace treaty recognized Yugoslavia's acquisition of > the former Italian territory. > This included Dalmatian city of Zadar/Zara and the islands of > Cres/Cherso, Los^inj/Lusino, and Lastovo/Lagosta, as well as former city > of Rijeka/Fiume and, farther north, western Slovenia and part of Istria. > > There are Croatian Italian surname bearers who ancestors never set > foot in Italy proper. > Some Croats had two surnames, a Croatian surname and an equivalent > Italian family name. > Some Croatian surnames bearers had Italian first names. > > There are two place names Osojnik in Croatia. > A Osojnik is located just NW of Dubrovnik. > A Osojnik is located near Bjelovar. > > The Croatian telephone directory lists : > > 2 surname Domitrovic' under Dubrovnik. > 2 surname Domitrovic' in Istria. > 22 surname Domitrovic' under Bjelovar county. > 60 surname Domitrovic' under Karlovac county. > 135 surname Domitrovic under Zagreb. > There probably are others as well. > > As for Croatians in South America. > Many Croatians emigrated to that continent early on. > Mostly to Brazil. > But, also to Argentina, Peru, Chile, etc. > > Of course, early on many Croatians did emigrate to the Land of Oz and to > NZ. > >

Hi Frank, Thanks for the info. I have located the LDS centre close to me and have only managed to identify 1 roll of film for Croatia which I find strange. I'm interested in the Lukovdol Parish in Osojnik in Karlovac, prior to 1927. Can you help with any film numbers which I should be able to source in the local LDS centre in Australia. Regards, Branko Colavizza branko.colavizza@bigpond.com http://www.geocities.com/bcolaau/ -----Original Message----- From: Frank Kurchina [mailto:frankur@worldnet.att.net] Sent: Thursday, 28 February 2002 7:05 AM To: CROATIA-L@rootsweb.com Subject: Re: [CROATIA-L] Domitrovic and Colavizza (Kolovica) Branko wrote: > > Hi folks, > > I'm new to this game and need some advice. I have traced through living > relatives the two family names back to somewhere in the 1850's and can not > proceed. The Colavizza name goes into Italy (Udine) where records appear not > to exist prior to 1870. I have found a family in Columbia who would appear > to relate but again all goes back to Udine. > > The Domitrovic name goes back into Osojnik and little to get on with. > > If there is anyone out there that can point me in the right direction or > even relate to these two names I would welcome the information. What I have > to date has been posted at http://www.geocities.com/bcolaau/ > > -------------------------------------------------------- > Regards, > Branko Colavizza > branko.colavizza@bigpond.com > http://www.geocities.com/bcolaau/ More Slavic surnames begin with the initial letter K than other letters. Italian has no letter K and uses the letter C instead. [letter 'C' (before e/i) is pron. as phonetic ch letter 'C' (before a/o/u) is pron. as phonetic k] The Italian letter z is generally pron. like ts. Any consonants can be doubled for a more foreceful sound. In most Slavic languages the plain letter c is pron. ts. So would expect that surname Colavizza is the Italian equivalent of the surname Kolovica. Following WW 1, Italy took for itself the southwestern portion of duchy of Carniola, the county of Gorizia-Gradisca, the margraviate of Istria, the town of Trieste, the southern portion of the county of Tyrol, city of Zadar /Zara (formerly part of the Kingdom of Dalmatia), and the islands of Cherso/Ceres, Lusino/Los^inj, and Lagosta/Lastovo When the Italian Fascists took power in the 1930s they forced some Croatians in territory mentioned below to convert their surnames to Italian names. Trieste (I) Trst (C/Sl) Triest (G) In 1926, Trieste, Istria, southwestern Carniola, and northern Dalmatia was divided into the districts of Trieste/Trst Rijeka/Fiume, and Pula/Pola by Italy. 1815-1866 Istria (including Trieste) was part of the Austrian Empire. 1867-1918 Istria was part of of Austria under the dual Austro-Hungarian Monarchy. 1918-1947 Istria was part of Italy, not Croatia or Yugoslavia. The 1947 (WW 2) peace treaty recognized Yugoslavia's acquisition of the former Italian territory. This included Dalmatian city of Zadar/Zara and the islands of Cres/Cherso, Los^inj/Lusino, and Lastovo/Lagosta, as well as former city of Rijeka/Fiume and, farther north, western Slovenia and part of Istria. There are Croatian Italian surname bearers who ancestors never set foot in Italy proper. Some Croats had two surnames, a Croatian surname and an equivalent Italian family name. Some Croatian surnames bearers had Italian first names. There are two place names Osojnik in Croatia. A Osojnik is located just NW of Dubrovnik. A Osojnik is located near Bjelovar. The Croatian telephone directory lists : 2 surname Domitrovic' under Dubrovnik. 2 surname Domitrovic' in Istria. 22 surname Domitrovic' under Bjelovar county. 60 surname Domitrovic' under Karlovac county. 135 surname Domitrovic under Zagreb. There probably are others as well. As for Croatians in South America. Many Croatians emigrated to that continent early on. Mostly to Brazil. But, also to Argentina, Peru, Chile, etc. Of course, early on many Croatians did emigrate to the Land of Oz and to NZ.

Paul Romanow wrote: > > My maternal great grandparents come from Fuzine and Vrata. Unfortunately I don't have any dates until my grandparents. > > Ignac Stanfl (Stanfel?) married Marda Ozura both of Fuzine. > > Their children were - Anthony, Julio, Kate ? > > George Kauzlaric married Franceska Kauzlaric, both of Vrata > > Their children were Vince, Richard and Amelia > > Anthony Stanfl (Stanfel?) b. May 21, 1899, d. July 8, 1961 (Hamilton, Ontario, Canada) > > married > > Amelia Kauzlaric b. Mar. 2 1902, d. June 30, 1975 (Hamilton, Ontario, Canada) > > Their children were - Mary (my mother), Amelia, Anthony, Frank, Elvira (died at birth), George, William and Steve. > > Anthony and Amelia were born in Croatia. > > Vince Kauzlaric married Paulina ?, Children Nevenka and Marcia > Richard Kauzlaric married Ljubica, no children. > > I would appreciate any information that this tie into in other peoples research. > > cheers > > Paul Romanow Don't know your surnames. LDS-Mormons filmed the parish church records (1725-1889) for Roman Catholic congregation at Fuzine, Modrus-Fiume megye (county), Hungary; now Fuz^ine, Croatia. Text in Croatian. film # 1419068 1419069 2084749 2084750 These microfilm reels are available for rental and viewing at any Family History Center (FHC) worldwide. 90% of patrons are non-Mormons doing surname research. LDS - Mormon FHCs - LOCATIONS http://www.familysearch.org/Search/searchfhc2.asp Fuz^ine is located 1 mile from Vrata. The Croatian telephone directory lists a Milan Oz^ura under Delnice. 15 surnames S^tanfel are listed under the region, including 6 surnames listed under Fuz^ine. The directory also lists 100 surnames Kauzlaric' under this region, including 21 surnames listed under Fuz^ine.

hi paul! my great-great-great grandmother was a kauzlaric- hellena. she married franciseus hipser and they lived in sunger, which isn't too far from fuzine. have you ordered records from the lds church yet? Paul Romanow wrote: > My maternal great grandparents come from Fuzine and Vrata. Unfortunately I don't have any dates until my grandparents. > > Ignac Stanfl (Stanfel?) married Marda Ozura both of Fuzine. > > Their children were - Anthony, Julio, Kate ? > > George Kauzlaric married Franceska Kauzlaric, both of Vrata > > Their children were Vince, Richard and Amelia > > Anthony Stanfl (Stanfel?) b. May 21, 1899, d. July 8, 1961 (Hamilton, Ontario, Canada) > > married > > Amelia Kauzlaric b. Mar. 2 1902, d. June 30, 1975 (Hamilton, Ontario, Canada) > > Their children were - Mary (my mother), Amelia, Anthony, Frank, Elvira (died at birth), George, William and Steve. > > Anthony and Amelia were born in Croatia. > > Vince Kauzlaric married Paulina ?, Children Nevenka and Marcia > Richard Kauzlaric married Ljubica, no children. > > I would appreciate any information that this tie into in other peoples research. > > cheers > > Paul Romanow

My maternal great grandparents come from Fuzine and Vrata. Unfortunately I don't have any dates until my grandparents. Ignac Stanfl (Stanfel?) married Marda Ozura both of Fuzine. Their children were - Anthony, Julio, Kate ? George Kauzlaric married Franceska Kauzlaric, both of Vrata Their children were Vince, Richard and Amelia Anthony Stanfl (Stanfel?) b. May 21, 1899, d. July 8, 1961 (Hamilton, Ontario, Canada) married Amelia Kauzlaric b. Mar. 2 1902, d. June 30, 1975 (Hamilton, Ontario, Canada) Their children were - Mary (my mother), Amelia, Anthony, Frank, Elvira (died at birth), George, William and Steve. Anthony and Amelia were born in Croatia. Vince Kauzlaric married Paulina ?, Children Nevenka and Marcia Richard Kauzlaric married Ljubica, no children. I would appreciate any information that this tie into in other peoples research. cheers Paul Romanow

Hello Amy, Just tried it and it worked for me. Robert ----- Original Message ----- From: "amy davis" <amy@syndromedist.com> To: <CROATIA-L@rootsweb.com> Sent: Wednesday, April 10, 2002 12:34 AM Subject: Re: [CROATIA-L] 1910 maps > hi robert! > > when i clicked on the phonebook, it came up as a blank page! > > Robert Jerin wrote: > > > Hello Amy, > > > > You can find the phone book link from my links page > > > > http://www.croatia-in-english.com/rj/index.html > > > > Robert Jerin > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > From: "amy davis" <amy@syndromedist.com> > > To: <CROATIA-L@rootsweb.com> > > Sent: Saturday, April 06, 2002 10:57 PM > > Subject: Re: [CROATIA-L] 1910 maps > > > > > dear robert, > > > > > > do you have the web address for the online phone book? > > > > > > Robert Jerin wrote: > > > > > > > Jim > > > > > > > > The only way that I have found to determine parishes in some cases is to > > go > > > > to the NEW online phone book search by activity, click on last line > > > > religion...etc, then churches when you see Rudopolje or the closest town > > > > then that would be the most likely church. It helps to have a map open > > with > > > > Rudopolje so you can compare the surrounding towns on that map with the > > one > > > > from the phone books. To get the phone book map click on the town, then > > > > magnify to highest level then click on Show large map. That large map > > will > > > > show surrounding villages, even the smallest. Sorry this is complicated > > but > > > > this is the only way I know to find the correct church. I have even > > asked a > > > > priest from Croatia how to determine village/church and he did not know. > > > > > > > > Robert > > > > > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > > > From: <FL4299@aol.com> > > > > To: <CROATIA-L@rootsweb.com> > > > > Sent: Saturday, April 06, 2002 10:18 AM > > > > Subject: [CROATIA-L] 1910 maps > > > > > > > > > I see, forget about Slavonia as a clue. For at least six months the > > key > > > > > question has > > > > > been, which Rudopolje? The one near Gracac or up near Otocac? I think > > that > > > > I > > > > > will > > > > > go with the one near Gracac and attempt to figure out what parish that > > was > > > > > part of, > > > > > say in 1908. The quest continues! Thank you. > > > > > Jim Malecki > > > > > > > > >