John, I have this info but thanks for trying. Don't give up th hunt. I will greatly appreciate anything. Mymom was just a child when Joseph Kisic died. She dosen't remember muchabout her dad. She remebers uncle Louie and uncle Mike . Her dad Joseph played with Joe Dupin and made several records for RCA. This lead ended when RCA said they don't have records from tha 1930's. I have bits and pieces from my aunts and uncles but thsy wer all under 10 when Joseph Kisic died. He had throat cancer. I even checked hospital records...none found. Joseph Kisic family lived in Nanty-Glo, Pa. None do today. My uncle Ed O"Farrell still lives in the homestead. He married Anna Louise Kisic. Thanks for trying Pat ----- Original Message ----- From: "Robert Jerin" <rjerin@adelphia.net> To: <CROATIA-L@rootsweb.com> Sent: Saturday, May 11, 2002 9:44 AM Subject: Re: [CROATIA-L] Beginning research on Kisic > There are 2 Jozo (form of Joe/Joseph) KISIC arr 1910 destination Johnstown > PA (Beaverdale is nearby) There are also other Josip/Jozo KISIC found who > went to Johnstown. Most seem to be from Petrovina, Croatia. Draga is > Carline, Dragica is a diminutive form of Draga. Checking for GRGAS it > appears that some of them are also arr from Petrovina. If was not unusual > for people who settled in the US to marry people who came from the same > place in Europe. > > http://www.croatia-in-english.com/rj/index.html > > Robert Jerin > > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "pdyer53" <pdyer53@netzero.net> > To: <CROATIA-L@rootsweb.com> > Sent: Tuesday, May 07, 2002 9:02 PM > Subject: [CROATIA-L] Beginning research on Kisic > > > > My grandmother Dragica Grgas came to America in 1910 or so. She was dau. > of Franjo Grgas and Ana r. Crnaric. She was born 12 May 1898 d. 1972. > Married 1 David Lukezic in Beverdale, Pa. Three children Arthur, George and > Mildred. Then she met Joseph Kisic and had 6 more children, Elizabeth, > Joseph Anna Louise, John, Josephine and David. She was born in Croatia. > Joseph left a wife and children in Croatia and when he died his social > security went to his wife in Croatia. Is there anyone on this list that can > helpme to locate info on this Joseph Kisic? > > Thanks for any help you may be to me. > > Pat Miller Dyer > > pdyer53@yahoo.com > > > > >

on 5/11/02 8:48 AM, Robert Jerin at rjerin@adelphia.net wrote: > The most likely location of Bukovac you are looking for is to the east of > Perusic. There are a couple of places by that name which can be found in > the old Hungarian Croatia/Slavonia maps, 1910. Click on Lika-Krbava, it > will take awhile to load. then set bottom browser about 1/3 from left and > side bar about mid point. The places are near the red number 6 on the map. > > http://www.familytree.hu/ > > Some of the listings in Croatian phone book have addresses of BUKOVAC > PERUSICKI indicating that there is a Bukovac near Perusic. Unfortunately > the maps which have been availble at the new Croatian phone book link do not > seem to be working > > http://www.croatia-in-english.com/rj/index.html > > I did not find a place called Hecimovic, but that does not mean that one > does not exist. Typically when family names were taken, some time in the > middle ages, people in a village took on the name of the village and very > few places were named after families. > > Robert Jerin > > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Doug H." <hecimovic@ev1.net> > To: <CROATIA-L@rootsweb.com> > Sent: Wednesday, May 08, 2002 9:10 PM > Subject: Re: (C)Re: [CROATIA-L] Hecimovic > > >> on 5/8/02 2:58 PM, Frank Kurchina at frankur@worldnet.att.net wrote: >> >>> >>> >>> "Doug H." wrote: >>>> >>>> Can anyone tell me the background on the surname Hecimovic? My > immediate >>>> family and many others that I'm in contact with came to the US from the >>>> Perusic area around 1907. >>>> >>>> If "ovic" means "son of" or a clan designation, then what is the origin > of >>>> "Hecim"? >>>> >>>> Is Ecimovic a cultural variation of Hecimovic or a distinctly different >>>> surname? >>>> >>>> Are there other variations on the spelling of Hecimovic which are > generally >>>> recognized in Croatia? >>>> >>>> Are there specific regions of Croatia associated with this name other > than >>>> Perusic? >>>> >>>> I've heard there is a town or place named Hecimovic after the many > Hecimovic >>>> who lived there. Is this a family legend? >>>> >>>> Amongst those of us in the US who are comparing notes, we have > recognized >>>> certain distinctive traits or physical aspects in common. Are there >>>> distinctive profiles that are recognized for members of this group or > region >>>> in Croatia? >>>> >>>> Also, my great grandfather was called something like Cico, (Cheecho). > Can >>>> anyone tell me something about this? >>>> >>>> Thank You, Doug Harlan >>> >>> Perus^ic' is located 85 miles SSW of Zagreb in Lic^ko z^upanija (county) >>> The Croatian telephone directory lists 95 surnames Hec'imovic' under >>> this county, including 36 surnames listed under Perus^ic'. >>> >>> The directory also lists 184 surnames Hec^imovic' under Zagreb. >>> >>> This is perhaps two variations of surname ? >>> Hec'imovic' >>> Hec^imovic' >>> >>> Some Croatian characters (letters) employ diacritic-accent >>> marks . >>> >>> v >>> c pronounced as " ch " in English word ch-urch. >>> >>> >>> c' pronounced as " ch " in English word ch-eap. >>> >>> The angular c' is used when c is the last letter in a Croatian >>> surname. >>> >>> I expect that the letter H was left out of the spelling >>> of name Ecimovic. >>> Rare to see a surname beginning with a vowel. >>> >>> Rare for a place name to begin Heci ? >>> >>> 50 surnames Hecimovic emigrated to U.S. via Ellis Island >>> 1892-1924. >>> Some were from Perus^ic', Croatia. >>> Some were from Bukovac. >>> There are 3 place names Bukovac located in Bosnia and Herzegovina. >>> >>> A Hasanovic is located in Bosnia, 24 miles from Sarajevo. >>> >>> Over 150 surnames Hecimovic are listed in the U.S. telephone white >>> pages. >>> Since the surname may be from various places in Croatia and/or >>> elsewhere ?, short of DNA testing, similar physical characteristics >>> won't prove any relationship. >>> >>> v >>> Frank Kurcina >>> >>> >> Thank you for getting back to me on this Frank, >> >> I see there are 22 listings for Ecimovic in the Zagreb phone directory but >> none in Licko. The 1948 census lists 250 people under Ecimovic and 506 for >> Hecimovic. The Croatian Genealogical and Heraldic Society wrote me to say >> that the names were different. I have also heard that maybe Hecimovic is a >> Croatian spelling and Ecimovic may be a Serbian spelling of basically the >> same name? >> >> My understanding of the pronounciation is that Hec^imovic' = >> "Heh chee mo vitch". >> >> I have heard it pronounced like "Heh see mo vitch" but I don't think this > is >> correct? >> >> I have studied the Ellis Island list for Hecimovic closely and have >> identified several passengers. It seems many also came through Baltimore > and >> maybe Galveston. Is there a way to see these records on line? >> >> I have noticed Bukovac as a frequent place of origin for Hecimovic and >> related surnames but my map only shows the one that is about 12 km east of >> Ogulin. I suspect there is one closer to Perusic as the Ellis Island > records >> show close relations between people from Bukovac and Perusic. I have > ordered >> the Map of Croatia from Freytag & Berndt through Barnes and Noble and >> hopefully I can do better on locations when it arrives. Any suggestions > for >> the ultimate map of croatia would be welcome. >> >> I wasn't expecting to use physical descriptions to determine relationships >> but it would be interesting to know if there is are certain > characteristics >> that are associated with people from Perusic or Lika? >> >> Do you have any ideas on the name "Cico"? Could this be a nickname? >> >> Thank you for the help. >> Doug Harlan >> >> > Robert, Thank you for the map reference. It was the first time I could find some other towns that I was looking for. I see the Bakovac River to the North West of Perusic and the town of Bakovac nearby. Are the spellings of Bukovac and Bakovac interchangeable? I also noticed what looks like a town of Bukavina just North East of Perusic. Could this be interchangeable with Rukavina? I have a research interest in members with that surname from the Perusic area as well. Doug Harlan

In studying the Ellis Island manifests I frequently find passengers from the Perusic area giving 10702 or 10718 or nearby addresses on Torrence Ave. in S. Chicago as their distination upon arrival. Can anyone tell me something about this? I am guessing that is was a Croatian community and these were boarding houses. Maybe even owned or operated by the stock yards or mines that were encouraging the immigration. Doug

If you are interested in the Iron Range area try going to the research site at the Ironworld Discovery Center, Chisholm, MN., www.ironworld.com. They have obits and cemetery records on line and an extensive research service available for a fee. My family and many others that I know worked in the open pit iron ore mines there and the records are full of close family members. Doug

The most likely location of Bukovac you are looking for is to the east of Perusic. There are a couple of places by that name which can be found in the old Hungarian Croatia/Slavonia maps, 1910. Click on Lika-Krbava, it will take awhile to load. then set bottom browser about 1/3 from left and side bar about mid point. The places are near the red number 6 on the map. http://www.familytree.hu/ Some of the listings in Croatian phone book have addresses of BUKOVAC PERUSICKI indicating that there is a Bukovac near Perusic. Unfortunately the maps which have been availble at the new Croatian phone book link do not seem to be working http://www.croatia-in-english.com/rj/index.html I did not find a place called Hecimovic, but that does not mean that one does not exist. Typically when family names were taken, some time in the middle ages, people in a village took on the name of the village and very few places were named after families. Robert Jerin ----- Original Message ----- From: "Doug H." <hecimovic@ev1.net> To: <CROATIA-L@rootsweb.com> Sent: Wednesday, May 08, 2002 9:10 PM Subject: Re: (C)Re: [CROATIA-L] Hecimovic > on 5/8/02 2:58 PM, Frank Kurchina at frankur@worldnet.att.net wrote: > > > > > > > "Doug H." wrote: > >> > >> Can anyone tell me the background on the surname Hecimovic? My immediate > >> family and many others that I'm in contact with came to the US from the > >> Perusic area around 1907. > >> > >> If "ovic" means "son of" or a clan designation, then what is the origin of > >> "Hecim"? > >> > >> Is Ecimovic a cultural variation of Hecimovic or a distinctly different > >> surname? > >> > >> Are there other variations on the spelling of Hecimovic which are generally > >> recognized in Croatia? > >> > >> Are there specific regions of Croatia associated with this name other than > >> Perusic? > >> > >> I've heard there is a town or place named Hecimovic after the many Hecimovic > >> who lived there. Is this a family legend? > >> > >> Amongst those of us in the US who are comparing notes, we have recognized > >> certain distinctive traits or physical aspects in common. Are there > >> distinctive profiles that are recognized for members of this group or region > >> in Croatia? > >> > >> Also, my great grandfather was called something like Cico, (Cheecho). Can > >> anyone tell me something about this? > >> > >> Thank You, Doug Harlan > > > > Perus^ic' is located 85 miles SSW of Zagreb in Lic^ko z^upanija (county) > > The Croatian telephone directory lists 95 surnames Hec'imovic' under > > this county, including 36 surnames listed under Perus^ic'. > > > > The directory also lists 184 surnames Hec^imovic' under Zagreb. > > > > This is perhaps two variations of surname ? > > Hec'imovic' > > Hec^imovic' > > > > Some Croatian characters (letters) employ diacritic-accent > > marks . > > > > v > > c pronounced as " ch " in English word ch-urch. > > > > > > c' pronounced as " ch " in English word ch-eap. > > > > The angular c' is used when c is the last letter in a Croatian > > surname. > > > > I expect that the letter H was left out of the spelling > > of name Ecimovic. > > Rare to see a surname beginning with a vowel. > > > > Rare for a place name to begin Heci ? > > > > 50 surnames Hecimovic emigrated to U.S. via Ellis Island > > 1892-1924. > > Some were from Perus^ic', Croatia. > > Some were from Bukovac. > > There are 3 place names Bukovac located in Bosnia and Herzegovina. > > > > A Hasanovic is located in Bosnia, 24 miles from Sarajevo. > > > > Over 150 surnames Hecimovic are listed in the U.S. telephone white > > pages. > > Since the surname may be from various places in Croatia and/or > > elsewhere ?, short of DNA testing, similar physical characteristics > > won't prove any relationship. > > > > v > > Frank Kurcina > > > > > Thank you for getting back to me on this Frank, > > I see there are 22 listings for Ecimovic in the Zagreb phone directory but > none in Licko. The 1948 census lists 250 people under Ecimovic and 506 for > Hecimovic. The Croatian Genealogical and Heraldic Society wrote me to say > that the names were different. I have also heard that maybe Hecimovic is a > Croatian spelling and Ecimovic may be a Serbian spelling of basically the > same name? > > My understanding of the pronounciation is that Hec^imovic' = > "Heh chee mo vitch". > > I have heard it pronounced like "Heh see mo vitch" but I don't think this is > correct? > > I have studied the Ellis Island list for Hecimovic closely and have > identified several passengers. It seems many also came through Baltimore and > maybe Galveston. Is there a way to see these records on line? > > I have noticed Bukovac as a frequent place of origin for Hecimovic and > related surnames but my map only shows the one that is about 12 km east of > Ogulin. I suspect there is one closer to Perusic as the Ellis Island records > show close relations between people from Bukovac and Perusic. I have ordered > the Map of Croatia from Freytag & Berndt through Barnes and Noble and > hopefully I can do better on locations when it arrives. Any suggestions for > the ultimate map of croatia would be welcome. > > I wasn't expecting to use physical descriptions to determine relationships > but it would be interesting to know if there is are certain characteristics > that are associated with people from Perusic or Lika? > > Do you have any ideas on the name "Cico"? Could this be a nickname? > > Thank you for the help. > Doug Harlan > >

Hello James, Yes there were substantial Croatian settlements in Akron, RC Church still exists there, Croatian Fraternal Union Lodge still exists. Don't know what you mean by "force in the rubberwork (tiremaking). BF Goodrich is one company that sent recruiters to Austro-Hungarian Empire to hire cheap labor. And Detroit also had/has a community, that is very active with a new church having been built in the past few years and rename Saint Lucy's (Sv. Lucija). Also there are many more places that have/had communities such as: Lorain Ohio -- immigrants worked in the steel and clothing industry. Croatia is the feature country at Lorain's Int'l Festival this year. They founded Saint Vitus (Sv. Vid) around 1929. Most Croatians settling there came from Medjumore and Prigorije regions. A Croatian Fraternal Union lodge still exists as well as a Croatian-American Club. The Club has recently purchased a new home. http://www.loraininternational.com/ Youngstown, Ohio St Peter and Paul is the Croatian church in Youngstown. This community also stretches into PA. There are several CFU lodges there today and an American Croatian Citizens Club. Like Lorain and Cleveland many worked in the steel industry. Also there is a picnic center, Strossmeyer Center, named after the Bishop from Djakovo Croatia who was a leader in the 1800-1900 Yugoslav movement. http://www.stjeromecroatian.org/eng/usacanada.html Columbus, Ohio A CFU lodge exists however they sold their home a few years ago. The only semi-professional Croatian folklore group, Zivili is based in Columbus. Ohio has had several Croatian/American policitians, inc. former US Rep. John KASIC (born in PA), and US Rep and former Cleveland Mayor Dennis KUCINIC. Also US Sen VOINOVICH is from a Slovenian and Serb background but his Serb side is from Croatia. http://home.columbus.rr.com/zivili/ Other Ohio towns and cities have Croatian American populations Cincinnati Not too many early immigrants settle in Cincy but here is a link to an article about a more recent immigrant http://www.cincypost.com/living/1998/vine082598.html Dayton Obviously for those early immigrants, of which about 60% were litterate, opportunities existed where ever there was need for labor. Home to many automotive related and the early home of aircraft making was such a place. Croatians setteled in enough numbers along with other "south Slavs" that today a folklore group exists. http://www.geocities.com/Heartland/3382/zivio.html Johnstown PA All through the hills of SW PA Croatian settled, Johnstown is one place http://www.rootsweb.com/~pacambri/books/Storey/v3/p268.html However places like Dunlo, Beaverdale, St. Michael, Sidman, South Fork, Salix and other towns around Johnstown Croatians could be found. My family is from the area and my great uncle Ivan BAKALE was instrumental in establishing the CFU home in Dunlo. http://www.rootsweb.com/~pacambri/books/Storey/v3/p268.html And don't forget Chicago which has had a long history of Croatian settlement. And Wheeling W Va and so forth. There are probably many more Croatian settlements in the US Croatian immigration continues today, with the most recent immigrants the being the victims of Serbia's war on Croatia. Most are displaced Bosnian Croatians. The media has talked very little about the plight of the smallest group in Bosnia which has had the largest percentage of displaced persons. But in a way they are infusing new life in older Croatian American communities and establishing new ones. I can tell you that Croatian immigration to Cleveland occured in several waves: late 1890s to 1913 many arr from Zumberak and established the only Byzantine Rite Croatian Church in N. America, Saint Nicholas, Sv Nikolas. Many more came to Cleveland from Roman Catholic areas http://www.midwest-croatians.org/archives/stnicholas.html The next wave were the refugees who fled the communist partisans. This group contained many highly educated professionals who became teachers, doctors, professors, etc.. They also established groups opposed to communist occupation of Croatia and contributed much to the independence of Croatia. And the newest group are those displaced by Serbia's wars. These folks were mainly skilled and unskilled workers and unlike the group after WW II not many professionals were among them. However they are prospering, establishing and buying homes, starting businesses, etc.. Unlike the group after WW II they did not flee communism. There have been some issues especially when church and social agencies begin these immigrants out on public assistance. The ones who have not been burdended by that do-good process have been the ones to succeed, while many who began on public assistance have not had the incentive to work and contribute! However the earliest Croatian immigrants settled in the places you and I have mentioned. Part of my family arrived in Johnstown in 1896, most arr from that time until just prior to the outbreak of WW I, 1913. The earliest Croatian immigrants to America settled in California and Louisiana and other Gulf towns. In California there are several CFU lodges and a Slavonic Benifit Society that is perhaps the oldest Croatian org in the US. The Slavonic web page has some great stories that can be listened to online http://www.slavonicweb.org/ Sacramento CFU lodges exist throughout CA http://www.cacc.com/Extravaganza/main.html Louisiana Folklife in Louisiana has several very good articles about Croatian settlement in that state http://www.crt.state.la.us/scripts/samples/search/folklifehit.idq Also there is an out of print book by Dr. Jure Prpic, retired John Carroll Univ. (Cleveland, Ohio) Prof about Croatian Immigrants in America. http://origins.safeshopper.com/129/1049.htm?0 http://www.croatianmall.com/stores/bn.htm Hope I did not stray to far off topic! Robert Jerin Croatian Heritage Museum ----- Original Message ----- From: "Birkholz, James" <James.Birkholz@usa.okmetic.com> To: <CROATIA-L@rootsweb.com> Sent: Wednesday, May 08, 2002 1:47 PM Subject: [CROATIA-L] US Croatian hot spots > I'm curious about settlement patterns of Croatians in the US. > > I know that large groups settled in mining areas, such as Pennsylvania, > Michigan's Upper Pennisula, and western Montana. > Our immigrant was in Akron, Ohio working as a "rubberwork" during the 1910 > census, and 15 years later was in Detroit. Was there a large Croatian > community in Akron and Detroit? Were Croatian immigrants a major force in > rubber production? > > James >

There are 2 Jozo (form of Joe/Joseph) KISIC arr 1910 destination Johnstown PA (Beaverdale is nearby) There are also other Josip/Jozo KISIC found who went to Johnstown. Most seem to be from Petrovina, Croatia. Draga is Carline, Dragica is a diminutive form of Draga. Checking for GRGAS it appears that some of them are also arr from Petrovina. If was not unusual for people who settled in the US to marry people who came from the same place in Europe. http://www.croatia-in-english.com/rj/index.html Robert Jerin ----- Original Message ----- From: "pdyer53" <pdyer53@netzero.net> To: <CROATIA-L@rootsweb.com> Sent: Tuesday, May 07, 2002 9:02 PM Subject: [CROATIA-L] Beginning research on Kisic > My grandmother Dragica Grgas came to America in 1910 or so. She was dau. of Franjo Grgas and Ana r. Crnaric. She was born 12 May 1898 d. 1972. Married 1 David Lukezic in Beverdale, Pa. Three children Arthur, George and Mildred. Then she met Joseph Kisic and had 6 more children, Elizabeth, Joseph Anna Louise, John, Josephine and David. She was born in Croatia. Joseph left a wife and children in Croatia and when he died his social security went to his wife in Croatia. Is there anyone on this list that can helpme to locate info on this Joseph Kisic? > Thanks for any help you may be to me. > Pat Miller Dyer > pdyer53@yahoo.com >

I would like to add to the post re settlement patterns. Although Slovenian, Rev Trunk's 1912 History of Slovene Communities is interesting and has mention of Croatians. Simply search for Rev Trunk FEEFHS and you will find it. Personally I have knowledge of the many mining towns that once existed near Raton NM such as Koehler, Brilliant, Dawson and Sugarite to name a few. Many Croatians worked the coal mines but I think most left the area after the mines closed. Also an area with a large number of Croatians is what is called the Iron Range of MN. Hibbing and Nashwauk are a few of the towns of that area, along with the nearby City of Duluth which has a large Croatian community.

After reading what I sent to you earlier it sounded a bit harsh, sorry, I do not read Croatian but passed your email onto someone at work who looked at it and I had hoped would change some things but he wrote back: "The translation is a bit weird but the basic intent of the letter should be understood by someone who can only read, write and speak Croatian" Also if you send the English version Im sure that someone (younger in the family) will be able to understand that as well. Good luck in your findings and I hope you get a favourable response. Frank also has letters written in Croatian if you need to send to Churches or Archives. If you need a copy he will forward this to you. BTW was it Trans Translator you are using? I've used this programme for certains words I want to find out but never used it for actual sentences. Mary ----- Original Message ----- From: "Maryanne Lawrie" <m.lawrie@walter.net.au> To: <CROATIA-L@rootsweb.com> Sent: Friday, May 10, 2002 11:21 AM Subject: RE: [CROATIA-L] Proof needed of this contact letter > > The translation is a bit weird but the basic intent of the letter should be > understood by someone who can only read, write and speak Croatian. > > > Mary > > -----Original Message----- > From: Birkholz, James [mailto:James.Birkholz@usa.okmetic.com] > Sent: Friday, 10 May 2002 10:58 AM > To: CROATIA-L@rootsweb.com > Subject: [CROATIA-L] Proof needed of this contact letter > > > We are preparing to send letters to Croatians found in the phone book, that > we believe are probably distant relatives. > > We used an online computer translator to generate a Croatian version of the > the English text. > We'll send the letter in both languages, along with a simplified pedigree > chart that includes some photos. > > Below are the two versions. We're hoping that someone can tell us if the > machine translation needs fixing and provide better wording. > > TIA, > James and Tami Birkholz > > > > > ( Hrvatski, Croatian ) > Mi ( [Researcher1] i [Researcher]) ) jesu istrazivanje nas obitelj povijest. > > > Mi pisati ovaj zaglavlje pisma vama jer nadamo se taj ti si povezivati se od > nas. > Karta, sto je ispod, pokazivanje sto mi znati o nas obitelj povijest. > Karta ne pokazivanje svi dana potomstvo od [immigrant ancestor]. > Se Internet povezivanje sa vasim obitelj povijest? > > Mi nemamo vrlo velik dio obavijest, jer bozja djeca [immigrant ancestor] > preterit od be namjesten u sirotiste. > Oni je ne znati njihov predak [immigrant ancestor] vrlo kvalitetno. > > Jer mi ne govoriti Hrvatski, mi pisati in Engleski jezik. > Pa ipak, mi isto tako osigurati prevodenje, oformljen kompjutorski. > Internet htijenje biti los prevodenje, ali bi trebao prenijeti nas osnovni > znacenje. > > Ukoliko to ucinite ne govoriti Engleski jezik, ugoditi odgovoriti in > Hrvatski. > Mi cemo imati netko prevesti tvoj zabrljati u Engleski jezik. > > Ako ste ne zainteresirana za serif tvoj obitelj povijest sa nas, ce te Molim > Vas dajte mi ovaj zaglavlje pisma to netko tko moc? > Nadamo se, pa ipak, taj te htijenje reci nas ako ste povezivati se nama. > I mi isto tako uzdanica taj mozete reci nas o povijest dana (shared family > name). > Mi zelja to povezivanje opet obitelji taj imati ne je kontakt za na 80 > godina. > > ================= > > ( English / Engleski ) > We ( [Researcher1] and [Researcher2] ) are researching our family history. > > We write this letter to you because we hope that you are a relative of ours. > The chart, which is below, shows what we know about our family history. > The chart does not show all of the descendants of [immigrant ancestor]. > Does it connect with your family history? > > We do not have very much information, because the children of [immigrant > ancestor] were placed into an orphanage. > They did not know their father [immigrant ancestor] very well. > > Because we do not speak Croatian, we write in English. > However, we also provide a translation, created by a computer. > It will be a bad translation, but should convey our basic meaning. > > If you do not speak English, please answer in Croatian. > We will have someone translate your message into English. > > If you are not interested in sharing your family history with us, would you > please give this letter to someone who might? > We hope, however, that you will tell us if you are related to us. > And we also hope that you can tell us about the history of the [shared > family name]. > We desire to reconnect the families that have lost contact for over 80 > years. > >

----- Original Message ----- From: "Elaine Sharp" <bellemarco@hotmail.com> To: <CROATIA-L@rootsweb.com> Sent: Thursday, May 09, 2002 10:47 PM Subject: [CROATIA-L] Name origin > I have found a Finsigher from Cherso/Cres in my line and wonder if this is a > Croatian or Italian last name as it seems more German to me?? > > Elaine Searching Ellis Island, Google.com and Croatia online phone book finds zero names/listings for FINSINGHER or any close sp.. Perhaps you have an incorrect sp.? Where did you did you find this spelling? http://www.croatia-in-english.com/rj/index.html Robert Jerin

There were Croatian settlements in Blair co. PA (near Altoons). Many of the men workedin the limestone quarries and the women ran boardinghouses for single Croatian men. Many also worked in the brickyards in the area. Of course, Cleveland area had a large community, and the steel mills in NE Ohio had many Croatian workers. In Washington state there were many Croatian miners in Roslyn and Ronald (about 90 mins. east of Seattle). There were also Croatian miners closer to Seattle, in the SE corner of King county in towns such as Black Diamond, Carbonado, etc. (Some now small suburbs, some ghost towns.) In Anacortes, WA (the NW corner of the NW state!)there is a large Croatian community...many fishermen, since this is on the water... Also San Pedro, CA has a large Croatian community, also involved in seafaring related industry.

Your previous reply didn't sound harsh to me, and thanks for checking! You can't be too careful. My paternal ancestors came from the previous Prussian province of "Posen", but if you machine translate a sentence from German to English with "Posen" in it, it won't make sense, as "Posen" is also the German word for fishing "bobbers" and the machine translation will substitute "floats" (or sometimes "poses" as in "actors in various poses") for "Posen". For my contact letter, I used InterTran http://www.tranexp.com:2000/InterTran which can have poor (or no) response sometimes, as it isn't provided with enough servers to handle all the traffic. I suspect this may be intentional, so we will buy their software. I recommend that when using a machine translation, to use short simple sentences, eliminating idioms. It helps to repeat the ideas using different words, so that if one sentence is ruined by a couple of wrongly translated words, the other sentence will help carry the thought from context. And always include the English version, it can't hurt and it may help. James > -----Original Message----- > From: Mary Lawrie [SMTP:marylawrie@optusnet.com.au] > Sent: Friday, May 10, 2002 5:16 AM > To: CROATIA-L@rootsweb.com > Subject: Re: [CROATIA-L] Proof needed of this contact letter > > After reading what I sent to you earlier it sounded a bit harsh, sorry, I > do not read Croatian but passed your email onto someone at work who looked > at it and I had hoped would change some things but he wrote back: "The > translation is a bit weird but the basic intent of the letter should be > understood by someone who can only read, write and speak Croatian" > > Also if you send the English version Im sure that someone (younger in the > family) will be able to understand that as well. > > Good luck in your findings and I hope you get a favourable response. > > Frank also has letters written in Croatian if you need to send to Churches > or Archives. If you need a copy he will forward this to you. > > > BTW was it Trans Translator you are using? I've used this programme for > certains words I want to find out but never used it for actual sentences. > > Mary >

The translation is a bit weird but the basic intent of the letter should be understood by someone who can only read, write and speak Croatian. Mary -----Original Message----- From: Birkholz, James [mailto:James.Birkholz@usa.okmetic.com] Sent: Friday, 10 May 2002 10:58 AM To: CROATIA-L@rootsweb.com Subject: [CROATIA-L] Proof needed of this contact letter We are preparing to send letters to Croatians found in the phone book, that we believe are probably distant relatives. We used an online computer translator to generate a Croatian version of the the English text. We'll send the letter in both languages, along with a simplified pedigree chart that includes some photos. Below are the two versions. We're hoping that someone can tell us if the machine translation needs fixing and provide better wording. TIA, James and Tami Birkholz ( Hrvatski, Croatian ) Mi ( [Researcher1] i [Researcher]) ) jesu istrazivanje nas obitelj povijest. Mi pisati ovaj zaglavlje pisma vama jer nadamo se taj ti si povezivati se od nas. Karta, sto je ispod, pokazivanje sto mi znati o nas obitelj povijest. Karta ne pokazivanje svi dana potomstvo od [immigrant ancestor]. Se Internet povezivanje sa vasim obitelj povijest? Mi nemamo vrlo velik dio obavijest, jer bozja djeca [immigrant ancestor] preterit od be namjesten u sirotiste. Oni je ne znati njihov predak [immigrant ancestor] vrlo kvalitetno. Jer mi ne govoriti Hrvatski, mi pisati in Engleski jezik. Pa ipak, mi isto tako osigurati prevodenje, oformljen kompjutorski. Internet htijenje biti los prevodenje, ali bi trebao prenijeti nas osnovni znacenje. Ukoliko to ucinite ne govoriti Engleski jezik, ugoditi odgovoriti in Hrvatski. Mi cemo imati netko prevesti tvoj zabrljati u Engleski jezik. Ako ste ne zainteresirana za serif tvoj obitelj povijest sa nas, ce te Molim Vas dajte mi ovaj zaglavlje pisma to netko tko moc? Nadamo se, pa ipak, taj te htijenje reci nas ako ste povezivati se nama. I mi isto tako uzdanica taj mozete reci nas o povijest dana (shared family name). Mi zelja to povezivanje opet obitelji taj imati ne je kontakt za na 80 godina. ================= ( English / Engleski ) We ( [Researcher1] and [Researcher2] ) are researching our family history. We write this letter to you because we hope that you are a relative of ours. The chart, which is below, shows what we know about our family history. The chart does not show all of the descendants of [immigrant ancestor]. Does it connect with your family history? We do not have very much information, because the children of [immigrant ancestor] were placed into an orphanage. They did not know their father [immigrant ancestor] very well. Because we do not speak Croatian, we write in English. However, we also provide a translation, created by a computer. It will be a bad translation, but should convey our basic meaning. If you do not speak English, please answer in Croatian. We will have someone translate your message into English. If you are not interested in sharing your family history with us, would you please give this letter to someone who might? We hope, however, that you will tell us if you are related to us. And we also hope that you can tell us about the history of the [shared family name]. We desire to reconnect the families that have lost contact for over 80 years.

"Jackie (nee Adamowicz)" wrote: > > At 10:34 PM 5/9/2002, you wrote: > >What was your great-GM's maiden name ? > >What was the village ? > > My grandmother's name was Agnes and she listed her father as Ivan on the > ships manifest and her village as Brod Moravice. > > I found an Ivan Sneperger in Brod Moravice in the Croatian phone book, and > thought I would send a letter asking if he might be a relation. > > My thanks, > Jackie Yes. Brod Moravice is located in the Rijeka and Gorski Kotar region of Croatia and near the Slovenian border. The Croatian telephone directory also lists 1 surname S^neperger under Maklen. A Geo S^neperger, age 16, emigrated to U.S. in 1900 from Brod Moravice. A Markus, age 24, emigrated in 1905 from Maklen. A Jevea ? , age 35, emigrated in 1901 from Maklen. A Marya, age 21, emigrated in 1913 from Maklen. A Veronika, age 33, emigrated in 1902 from Sela (near Brod Moravice) Seem to also remember some surname connection with Banja Loka which is located just across the border in Slovenia. v Frank Kurcina > > Researching: > ~~~~~~~Poland~~~~~~~ > ADAMOWICZ - BANASZEK - BURDA > CHOJNACKI / HOJNACKI > MIKULSKI / MIKOLSKY > CIEBIEN~ - MAZIK - KROL / KRUL > ~~~~~~~Croatia~~~~~~~ > OCVIRAK / OCVIRK - SNEPERGER

At 10:34 PM 5/9/2002, you wrote: >What was your great-GM's maiden name ? >What was the village ? My grandmother's name was Agnes and she listed her father as Ivan on the ships manifest and her village as Brod Moravice. I found an Ivan Sneperger in Brod Moravice in the Croatian phone book, and thought I would send a letter asking if he might be a relation. My thanks, Jackie Researching: ~~~~~~~Poland~~~~~~~ ADAMOWICZ - BANASZEK - BURDA CHOJNACKI / HOJNACKI MIKULSKI / MIKOLSKY CIEBIEN~ - MAZIK - KROL / KRUL ~~~~~~~Croatia~~~~~~~ OCVIRAK / OCVIRK - SNEPERGER

I would be interested in any information on the Joseph Kisic of Allegheny Co PA. My grandfather was Vid Kisak of Allegheny County, PA and he had a brother named Josip (Croatian equivalent of Joseph) who was born approx. 1885 and came to the US. The family lost touch with him when he came to the US. Best, Paul ----- Original Message ----- From: "robert mcalear" <rmcalear@pacific.net> To: <CROATIA-L@rootsweb.com> Sent: Thursday, May 09, 2002 12:19 AM Subject: Re: [CROATIA-L] Beginning research on Kisic > Soc Sec dea index shows 2 Joseph Kisic; (1) 1918-2001 Beaver Co PA; (2) > 1918-1970 Allegheny Co PA. > Previously I have sent for "many" original SS applications (@5.00 ea) for a > wealth of info. I was not even related to most of the ones I sent for: they > were my grandson's maternal line. I was never refused access to any of the > original applications. I understand the price has gone up to 27.00. > >

"Jackie (nee Adamowicz)" wrote: > > Can anyone recommend an English to Croatian translator? > > I found a listing in the Croatian telephone book under my > great-grandmother's maiden name in the same village she came from, so I > thought I'd send a letter to see if there might be a connection between > us. It wouldn't be a very long letter, just a short few paragraphs. > > Thanks in advance. > > Best wishes, > Jackie > Researching: > ~~~~~~~Poland~~~~~~~ > ADAMOWICZ - BANASZEK - BURDA > CIEBIEN~ - MAZIK - HOJNACKI > MIKULSKI / MIKOLSKY - KROL / KRUL > ~~~~~~~Croatia~~~~~~~ > OCVIRAK / OCVIRK - SNEPERGER Aside from English=>Croatian (engleski-hrvatski) translator which is another matter. What was your great-GM's maiden name ? What was the village ? v I find the surname Sneperger (diacritic letter S^) in Slovenia and Croatia. And the surname Sneberger in the Czech Republic and Slovenia ? v Frank Kurcina

We are preparing to send letters to Croatians found in the phone book, that we believe are probably distant relatives. We used an online computer translator to generate a Croatian version of the the English text. We'll send the letter in both languages, along with a simplified pedigree chart that includes some photos. Below are the two versions. We're hoping that someone can tell us if the machine translation needs fixing and provide better wording. TIA, James and Tami Birkholz ( Hrvatski, Croatian ) Mi ( [Researcher1] i [Researcher]) ) jesu istrazivanje nas obitelj povijest. Mi pisati ovaj zaglavlje pisma vama jer nadamo se taj ti si povezivati se od nas. Karta, sto je ispod, pokazivanje sto mi znati o nas obitelj povijest. Karta ne pokazivanje svi dana potomstvo od [immigrant ancestor]. Se Internet povezivanje sa vasim obitelj povijest? Mi nemamo vrlo velik dio obavijest, jer bozja djeca [immigrant ancestor] preterit od be namjesten u sirotiste. Oni je ne znati njihov predak [immigrant ancestor] vrlo kvalitetno. Jer mi ne govoriti Hrvatski, mi pisati in Engleski jezik. Pa ipak, mi isto tako osigurati prevodenje, oformljen kompjutorski. Internet htijenje biti los prevodenje, ali bi trebao prenijeti nas osnovni znacenje. Ukoliko to ucinite ne govoriti Engleski jezik, ugoditi odgovoriti in Hrvatski. Mi cemo imati netko prevesti tvoj zabrljati u Engleski jezik. Ako ste ne zainteresirana za serif tvoj obitelj povijest sa nas, ce te Molim Vas dajte mi ovaj zaglavlje pisma to netko tko moc? Nadamo se, pa ipak, taj te htijenje reci nas ako ste povezivati se nama. I mi isto tako uzdanica taj mozete reci nas o povijest dana (shared family name). Mi zelja to povezivanje opet obitelji taj imati ne je kontakt za na 80 godina. ================= ( English / Engleski ) We ( [Researcher1] and [Researcher2] ) are researching our family history. We write this letter to you because we hope that you are a relative of ours. The chart, which is below, shows what we know about our family history. The chart does not show all of the descendants of [immigrant ancestor]. Does it connect with your family history? We do not have very much information, because the children of [immigrant ancestor] were placed into an orphanage. They did not know their father [immigrant ancestor] very well. Because we do not speak Croatian, we write in English. However, we also provide a translation, created by a computer. It will be a bad translation, but should convey our basic meaning. If you do not speak English, please answer in Croatian. We will have someone translate your message into English. If you are not interested in sharing your family history with us, would you please give this letter to someone who might? We hope, however, that you will tell us if you are related to us. And we also hope that you can tell us about the history of the [shared family name]. We desire to reconnect the families that have lost contact for over 80 years.

I have found a Finsigher from Cherso/Cres in my line and wonder if this is a Croatian or Italian last name as it seems more German to me?? Elaine

Can anyone recommend an English to Croatian translator? I found a listing in the Croatian telephone book under my great-grandmother's maiden name in the same village she came from, so I thought I'd send a letter to see if there might be a connection between us. It wouldn't be a very long letter, just a short few paragraphs. Thanks in advance. Best wishes, Jackie Researching: ~~~~~~~Poland~~~~~~~ ADAMOWICZ - BANASZEK - BURDA CIEBIEN~ - MAZIK - HOJNACKI MIKULSKI / MIKOLSKY - KROL / KRUL ~~~~~~~Croatia~~~~~~~ OCVIRAK / OCVIRK - SNEPERGER