on 5/19/02 6:30 PM, Robert Jerin at rjerin@adelphia.net wrote: > Dragutin = Charles > > Variants could be Drago, Dragek > > PAVOKOVIC is found in the part of Croatia where Marie was from. However > Ravokovic is not found anywhere in Croatia. I found none of the names at > Ellis Island that you mentioned! > > Robert Jerin > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Mary Hegarty" <mhegarty@cybertron.com> > To: <CROATIA-L@rootsweb.com> > Sent: Sunday, May 19, 2002 6:48 PM > Subject: [CROATIA-L] another first name > > >> I have been trying to find other relations of my grandmother, Marie Fanta >> (Pavlekovic) and using the spelling Pavokovic I located two of her > brothers >> - Luka and Andrya - listed as Ravokovic - arriving in 1910 on the > Lusitania. >> But I also found my uncle, my mother's brother (9). I thought his name was >> Charles but it was listed as Draguhir - I think. Does anyone know the >> meaning of this name? Is it Croatian for Charles? >> The other thing I don't understand is when I do a search for Fanta at EI I >> can't find his passenger record. >> Mary Hegarty >> Thank you Robert, The way I found them is I searched for Pavokovic and found a Lou from Vivovidica. The passenger record had him listed as female. When I looked it up I found it was Luka and male. Then I noticed right above Andrya Ravokovic and Dragutin Fanta below. I believe that Ravokovic must be misspelled. He was going to his mother-in-law and Luka was going to his sister my Grandmother with Dragutin. Andrya's mother-in-law's last name begins with Coje and I can't make out the rest but it looks like the same name as #2 on the manifest which I still can't figure out. Mary

Oh by the way I have yet to find a POE for my grandfather's brother Johann. He is not registered at Ellis Island. Several of his other brothers were. Ray All OUTGOING mail from this address has been scanned PRIOR to sending, by Norton AV--2000

When searching for my mother's family in the ellis island records I was having no luck until I searched using allk variations of the name. I finally found Krimpelbein as "Krumpelbein" an easy stretch. I doubt my grandfather wrote the name on the manifest, but he came over on an English ship with an English crew and I can easily understand the mistranslation of "im" to "um". Thge church records he brought with hinm Listed his name as Krimpelbein. He later used the name Krimbelbein - why, no one alive knows. His brother also used Krimbelbein when he was living in Conway, PA but later used his original Krimpelbein when he moved to Wisconsin: why, no one alive knows. However the name was not changed at Ellis Island. ray All OUTGOING mail from this address has been scanned PRIOR to sending, by Norton AV--2000

Hi Phyllis- thanks, I think this is the Josip of Rathbun, Iowa, who may be a distant relative or cousin to my grandfather. Still it may be a help. Hope all is going well with you.There was a Nkol Matkovic who immigrated in 1892, on Ellis Island Records, have you seen that yet? He was 50 years old at the time. Dave On Sun, 19 May 2002 17:12:03 EDT PJohn27974@aol.com writes: > In my eternal search for my own Matcovich I have found the intent to > > naturalize for a > JOSIP MATKOVICH. Hopefully, it will be just the piece in a puzzle > for > someone else. > > DECLARATION OF INTENTION > State of Iowa > Appanoose Co. District Court > > JOSIP MATKOVICH age 30 years, occupation miner, do declare on oath > at my > personal description is: Color white, complexion dark, height 5 feet > 8 > inches, weight 152 pounds, color of hair brown, color of eyes, blue > other > visible distinctive marks none. > I was born in Lic (Lec) Croatia, Austria on the 5 day of Sept anno > Doimini, > 1889: I now reside at Rathrin (Not clear), Iowa. > I emigrated to the United States of America from Havre, France on > the vessel > ST PAUL; my last residence was Lec, Austria. > I am married , my wife is Ella.she was born at Lec. > It is my bona fide intention to renounce forever all allegiance and > fidelity > to any foreign prince, potentate, state or soverignty, and > particularyt ot > Peter King of ____, > Serbs, Croats and Slovens, of whom I am now a subject. > I arrived at the port of New York in the state of New York on or > about the > 30th day of Aug. , anno Domini 1906: I am not an anarchist: I am not > a > polygamiist nor a believer in the practice of polygamy; and it is my > > intention in good faith to become a citizen of the United States of > America > and to permanently reside therein. > So Help Me God, > (signed) JOSIP MATKOVICH > > Subscribed and sworn to before me this 12th day of August, anno > Domini 1920 > Signed: illegible > > Hope it helps someone. > Phyllis > > >

Dragutin = Charles Variants could be Drago, Dragek PAVOKOVIC is found in the part of Croatia where Marie was from. However Ravokovic is not found anywhere in Croatia. I found none of the names at Ellis Island that you mentioned! Robert Jerin ----- Original Message ----- From: "Mary Hegarty" <mhegarty@cybertron.com> To: <CROATIA-L@rootsweb.com> Sent: Sunday, May 19, 2002 6:48 PM Subject: [CROATIA-L] another first name > I have been trying to find other relations of my grandmother, Marie Fanta > (Pavlekovic) and using the spelling Pavokovic I located two of her brothers > - Luka and Andrya - listed as Ravokovic - arriving in 1910 on the Lusitania. > But I also found my uncle, my mother's brother (9). I thought his name was > Charles but it was listed as Draguhir - I think. Does anyone know the > meaning of this name? Is it Croatian for Charles? > The other thing I don't understand is when I do a search for Fanta at EI I > can't find his passenger record. > Mary Hegarty >

An interesting site for historic maps was sent me from another mailing list. Over 6000 maps are now available for viewing at the David Rumsey collection. Several thousand of them are for Boston and San Francisco and a thousand more are as quoted below. If your ancestors emigrated thru these ports, you may want to take a look at this site. http://www.davidrumsey.com/ For your enjoyment, Ashley Highlights from 1012 New Maps added to the David Rumsey Collection, December 15, 2001. All titles may be found by searching under Search/by Publication Author using the author last names below. Commercial, Topographical, and Statistical Atlas of the United States, 1874 Asher and Adams 41 Maps, most complete edition. This was one of the first United States atlases to exclusively feature railroad lines, showing minimal topography and only showing towns on or next to railroads. Map Of The Pacific States, 1867 Bancroft, H.H.; Knight, W.H. Second edition. Highly detailed wall map of the Western United States just after the Civil War. Atlas of the Oil Regions of Pennsylvania, 1865 Beers, F. W. 54 maps, views, and advertisements. The only atlas made of the oil regions in Pennsylvania when oil was first discovered. The advertisements offer a look at the various companies involved in the early oil business. Atlas of New York and Vicinity, 1868 Beers, F. W. 53 maps and views. Detailed maps of New York, Westchester, and Putnam counties. New Universal Atlas, 1808 Cary, John 60 maps. One of the best world atlases of its time, and a source for American map makers. Topographical and Geological Atlas, High Plateaus of Utah, 1879 Dutton, Clarence E. 8 maps, views, and diagrams. Detailed atlas of Utah early in its development. Neptune des Cotes Occidentales d'Amerique sur le Grand Ocean, 1828 France. Depot-general de la Marine 35 charts. This volume 7 of Neptune Francois forms an extensive atlas of charts of the western coasts of North and South America. Atlas Spheroidal et Universel de Geographie, 1862 Garnier, F. A. 63 maps. This atlas is exceptional for its "spheroidal" maps of the globe, showing the various continents and poles, shaded to give the effect of a sphere floating in space. New General Atlas, 1830 Hall, Sydney 53 maps. Finely engraved and colored world atlas, with very up to date maps (for its time) of North and South America. Report upon the Colorado River of the West, 1861 Ives, J.C. 5 maps and illustrations. One of the earliest reports of exploration of the Colorado River in the area of the Grand Canyon. This is the scarce Senate issue with four maps by "Baron" Egloffstein. Egloffstein used a unique engraving process to achieve a superb rendering of topographical features. Royal Atlas of Modern Geography, 1861 Johnston, Alexander Keith 48 maps, first edition. This atlas was one of the best world atlases published in England in the second half of the 19th century. Grosser Hand-Atlas uber alle Theile der Erde, 1860 Meyer, Joseph 168 maps. With 50 maps of the Americas and many detailed maps of world cities. Meyer's finest atlas, and an excellent example of 19th century German commercial cartography. North American Atlas, 1845 Morse, Sidney E. 36 maps. The first Cerographic Atlas of the United States, using a new printing process that greatly reduced the cost of the atlas to the public, making this one of the first popular and cheap atlases produced in the United States. Atlas Accompanying the Report on the Geology of New Hampshire, 1878 New Hampshire. Geological Survey; Hitchcock, Charles H. 17 maps and views. The only large folio Geological Atlas made of an eastern state, on the scale of the western survey atlases of Powell, Hayden, Wheeler and King. Historical Atlas Map of Alameda County, California, 1878 Thompson & West 109 maps and views. Impressive maps and views of Oakland, Alameda, Berkeley and other more obscure parts of Alameda County. Historical Atlas Map of Solano County, California, 1878 Thompson & West 30 maps and views. This is the scarcest of Thompson & West's California county atlases. Historical Atlas Map of Santa Clara County, California, 1876 Thompson & West 75 maps and views. The first atlas made of a California county. Atlas Universel de Geographie, Quatrieme partie. - Amer. Sept., 1827 Vandermaelen, Philippe 78 maps. These maps comprise volume 5, North America, of Vandermaelen's Atlas Universel, here issued as separate, unbound sheets. This monumental work was the first atlas of the world with all maps on the same scale, and an early example of a lithographed atlas. Two composite images were made of the western and eastern U.S. map sheets joined together. --

I have been trying to find other relations of my grandmother, Marie Fanta (Pavlekovic) and using the spelling Pavokovic I located two of her brothers - Luka and Andrya - listed as Ravokovic - arriving in 1910 on the Lusitania. But I also found my uncle, my mother's brother (9). I thought his name was Charles but it was listed as Draguhir - I think. Does anyone know the meaning of this name? Is it Croatian for Charles? The other thing I don't understand is when I do a search for Fanta at EI I can't find his passenger record. Mary Hegarty

In my eternal search for my own Matcovich I have found the intent to naturalize for a JOSIP MATKOVICH. Hopefully, it will be just the piece in a puzzle for someone else. DECLARATION OF INTENTION State of Iowa Appanoose Co. District Court JOSIP MATKOVICH age 30 years, occupation miner, do declare on oath at my personal description is: Color white, complexion dark, height 5 feet 8 inches, weight 152 pounds, color of hair brown, color of eyes, blue other visible distinctive marks none. I was born in Lic (Lec) Croatia, Austria on the 5 day of Sept anno Doimini, 1889: I now reside at Rathrin (Not clear), Iowa. I emigrated to the United States of America from Havre, France on the vessel ST PAUL; my last residence was Lec, Austria. I am married , my wife is Ella.she was born at Lec. It is my bona fide intention to renounce forever all allegiance and fidelity to any foreign prince, potentate, state or soverignty, and particularyt ot Peter King of ____, Serbs, Croats and Slovens, of whom I am now a subject. I arrived at the port of New York in the state of New York on or about the 30th day of Aug. , anno Domini 1906: I am not an anarchist: I am not a polygamiist nor a believer in the practice of polygamy; and it is my intention in good faith to become a citizen of the United States of America and to permanently reside therein. So Help Me God, (signed) JOSIP MATKOVICH Subscribed and sworn to before me this 12th day of August, anno Domini 1920 Signed: illegible Hope it helps someone. Phyllis

At 01:31 AM 5/18/2002, you wrote: >Tom Ninkovich has an article about this practice, which he discovered this >past winter while doing archival research in Croatia. > >http://www.croatia-in-english.com/gen/social.html#inher Robert, Thank you for the link. I noticed your signature line on your email. Where is the Croatian Heritage Museum in Cleveland? I grew up in Cleveland and that is where my Croatian relatives settled. I'm coming for a visit at the end of June and would love to stop by. Best, Jackie Researching: ~~~~~~~Poland~~~~~~~ ADAMOWICZ - BANASZEK - BURDA CHOJNACKI / HOJNACKI MIKULSKI / MIKOLSKY CIEBIEN~ - MAZIK - KROL / KRUL ~~~~~~~Croatia~~~~~~~ OCVIRAK / OCVIREK - SNEPERGER

----- Original Message ----- From: <Vintenwin@aol.com> To: <CROATIA-L@rootsweb.com> Sent: Tuesday, May 14, 2002 10:46 PM Subject: Re: [CROATIA-L] > Hello, and thanks in advance for information that you may send my way. > I am interested in starting a search of my family who came from Ravna Gora, > Croatia. My grand Fathers name was Vinko Herljevic. It is my understanding > that members of his family still reside there. I have no other names or > addresses of those who might still be living there. > I will greatly appreciate you setting me in the correct direction in this > query. Thanks, Vincel > > Are you looking for genealogical records of your family? Or people with the surname HERLJEVIC in Ravna Gora? Listings from online phone book PHONE NAME ADDRESS TOWN 818278 HERLJEVIC ANDELKO IVANA GORANA KOVACICA 192 51314 RAVNA GORA 818432 HERLJEVIC ANKA IVANA GORANA KOVACICA 112 51314 RAVNA GORA 818555 HERLJEVIC DARKO IVANA GORANA KOVACICA 31 51314 RAVNA GORA 818666 HERLJEVIC DARKO MATANOVCI 35 51314 RAVNA GORA 818213 HERLJEVIC IVAN IVANA GORANA KOVACICA 176 51314 RAVNA GORA 818228 HERLJEVIC IVANKA BAJT 17 51314 RAVNA GORA 818628 HERLJEVIC JOSIP IVANA GORANA KOVACICA 279 51314 RAVNA GORA 818378 HERLJEVIC LEOPOLD IVANA GORANA KOVACICA 267 51314 RAVNA GORA 818109 HERLJEVIC MLADEN IVANA GORANA KOVACICA 106 51314 RAVNA GORA 818249 HERLJEVIC NENAD IVANA GORANA KOVACICA 274 51314 RAVNA GORA 818594 HERLJEVIC RATKO, DIPL.ING. IVANA GORANA KOVACICA 199 51314 RAVNA GORA 818549 HERLJEVIC VIKTOR IVANA GORANA KOVACICA 165 51314 RAVNA GORA 818372 HERLJEVIC VINKO, ING. BRANIMIRA MARKOVICA 3 51314 RAVNA GORA 818712 HERLJEVIC ZVONKO IVANA GORANA KOVACICA 144 51314 RAVNA GORA 818155 HERLJEVIC ZELJKO BRANIMIRA MARKOVICA 5 51314 RAVNA GORA 818259 HERLJEVIC ZELJKO STJEPANA RADICA 13 51314 RAVNA GORA If you are beginning a genealogy search what info are you searching for, Immigration info, church records in Croatia, etc.? If it is church records the LDS Church (Mormon) Family History Center has microfilm records available at a FHC near you, which you can rent for a few dollars. The local FHC will order them from Salt Lake City. The records they have are as follows. Title Maticna knjiga, 1759-1911 Authors Rimokatolicka crkva. Zupa Ravna Gora (Main Author) Notes Snimljeno sa originalnih dokumenata v Hrvatskom drzavnom arhivu u Zagrebu. ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- ---- Roman Catholic parish registers of births, marriages and deaths for Ravna Gora, Modrus-Fiume, Hungary; now Ravna Gora, Croatia. You can find more about the LDS (Family Search) services and the phone book in my links list. http://www.croatia-in-english.com/rj/index.html Robert Jerin Croatian Heritage Museum Cleveland, Ohio

Hello Jackie, Perhaps this is an example of the practice known as domazet = home son-in-law. There were cases where there were no male heirs, many times the property would pass to the eldest female if her bridegroom would take her family name to keep the family name going. Tom Ninkovich has an article about this practice, which he discovered this past winter while doing archival research in Croatia. http://www.croatia-in-english.com/gen/social.html#inher Robert Jerin Croatian Heritage Museum Cleveland, Ohio http://www.croatia-in-english.com/rj/index.html ----- Original Message ----- From: "Jackie (nee Adamowicz)" <wordsmith@att.net> To: <CROATIA-L@rootsweb.com> Sent: Tuesday, May 14, 2002 11:01 PM Subject: [CROATIA-L] a common practice? > Greetings, > I quizzed my grandmother a little yesterday to see if she could remember > anything she hadn't already told me about her parents from Croatia. She > told me that her father had once told her that his father had taken the > wife's surname at their marriage because she had come from a more affluent > family than his. It seems to make sense since my great-grandfather listed > his parents with the same surname on his social security application, and > there is a note beside his mother's name that says "mother's name same > before marriage." > > Has anyone ever run into this sort of thing before? > > Thank you, > Jackie > Researching: > ~~~~~~~Poland~~~~~~~ > ADAMOWICZ - BANASZEK - BURDA > CHOJNACKI / HOJNACKI > MIKULSKI / MIKOLSKY > CIEBIEN~ - MAZIK - KROL / KRUL > ~~~~~~~Croatia~~~~~~~ > OCVIRAK / OCVIRK - SNEPERGER >

Any French speaking members, My question is: what is the correct way to use the French term for "born". Is it nee, ne, né or née? I have seen it used all four ways, but only one can be correct. My cheapie French dictionary says "né". My expensive English dictionary says "née". Sort of confusing. ray All OUTGOING mail from this address has been scanned PRIOR to sending, by Norton AV--2000

My French is old, but as I remember, the first is the masculine form and the second is the feminine form. vicki -----Original Message----- From: ray [mailto:restraile@talon.net] Sent: Friday, May 17, 2002 12:19 PM To: CROATIA-L@rootsweb.com Subject: [CROATIA-L] born as Any French speaking members, My question is: what is the correct way to use the French term for "born". Is it nee, ne, né or née? I have seen it used all four ways, but only one can be correct. My cheapie French dictionary says "né". My expensive English dictionary says "née". Sort of confusing. ray All OUTGOING mail from this address has been scanned PRIOR to sending, by Norton AV--2000

I would like to take this opportunity to make an observation about name changes, as the claim has been made that no names were changed at Ellis Island. Since most of the Ellis Island records are manifests, it is probably true that few if any names were changed "at Ellis Island"; - however, as I have observed some of the manifests were not completely legible, and some names spelled as they were pronounced by persons who may not have been familiar with that ethnicity, lastly some of the travelers may have been illiterate. This may not mean that names were not changed, but simply not at Ellis Island. Just as I have found some Matkovic transcribed as Malkovic, or vice-versa in the online data. Human error exists, and in the case of our family surname, originally Matkovic - now Mothkovich, it takes an open and curious mind, sometimes the willingness to be relentless in the pursuit of your ancestor. It is always a pleasure to read the various comments submitted, but I think there are two rules I follow which generally hold true, always is never the truth, and never is not always true either. Better to say probably or generally than never or always. Hope I haven't confused anyone here. Dave M. searching for Bakic, Matkovic and Vuksic On Thu, 16 May 2002 11:13:39 -0400 "Jackie (nee Adamowicz)" <wordsmith@att.net> writes: > I'm sure a lot of you get the e-newsletter from Family History > Magazine. > But this article stuck out as something that might be of interest to > the > members of the list. > Especially the mention of those immigrants who were detained for > whatever > reason. > My Polish grandfather was detained for eight days because he was > just a few > months shy > of the minimum age of 16 (to emigrate alone). I hadn't been able to > find > his exact manifest and > used the "missing manifests" website to page through all the > documents for > my grandfather's > particular ship. I did find him on the listing, and also on the > list of > detained individuals. > From that I also discovered the name of his brother, who apparently > had to > come from Ohio to get him. > The detained list was at the front of the group of documents for my > > grandfather's ship. This article also > indicates it could be at the end. > > Name Changes at Ellis Island > Q: Were names actually changed by immigration officials at Ellis > Island? > A: No documented case proves that any immigrant's name was changed > by Ellis > Island officials. The passenger lists were prepared at the port of > departure, using the papers the emigrant provided. The blank lists > were > provided to the shipping lines by the United States and were to be > filled > in as the passengers boarded the ship. Names were copied from the > documents > carried by the emigrants. On board the ship the officials were > required to > document any births or deaths that occurred during the passage. Once > the > ship arrived in New York harbor, the first-class and cabin > passengers > disembarked at a pier, and the steerage passengers were transported > by > ferry to Ellis Island (or Castle Garden, depending on the time > frame) for > processing. Numerous pictures of immigrants who had slips of paper > bearing > numbers attached to their clothing appear in the many books on > immigration. > These numbers corresponded to the list number that the immigrant > appeared > on. Officials asked the same questions that were asked when the > passengers > boarded the ship. The officials were instructed merely to verify the > > answers and had no need to write any names down—they were already > recorded > on the list. > If an immigrant appeared to be ill or of questionable character, was > a > woman traveling alone, or perhaps gave different answers than what > was > recorded on the list, she might have been detained. Her name would > have > been transcribed onto the list of detained passengers, usually at > the end > of the passenger list (for New York records only), and a record of > all > inquiries regarding that individual was maintained. A woman > traveling alone > was detained until a male relative showed up to get her. Many times > the > detained passenger list states the name and relationship of that > male > relative; in such instances you will have even more information. > > Best wishes, > Jackie > > Researching: > ~~~~~~~Poland~~~~~~~ > ADAMOWICZ - BANASZEK - BURDA > CHOJNACKI / HOJNACKI > MIKULSKI / MIKOLSKY > CIEBIEN~ - MAZIK - KROL / KRUL > ~~~~~~~Croatia~~~~~~~ > OCVIRAK / OCVIREK - SNEPERGER > >

As promised last year, I received a flyer today about the Sacramento Croatian Festival this year. It will be held June 8 & 9. They have listed a website for those interested: http://www.cacc.com Elaine

At 11:31 AM 5/16/2002, you wrote: >I've been looking at the Ellis Island website's passenger lists. >A 16 yr old Mate Belobrajdic, traveling to his cousin in Pittsburg, Pa has >"Deported" stamped at the beginning of his entry. >No physical problems are noted. Perhaps he lied about his age and got >caught. Any other ideas? If he was deported, who paid his fare back to >Croatia? What is the logic of sending an underage traveler back? That's like >a weary swimmer getting halfway across the channel and deciding they are too >tired to finish so they turn back... James... I don't know for certain what happened in a case such as the one you mention. However, I do know that when my grandfather's brother emigrated, he arrived in the U.S., after the quota for that year had been met. He was sent on to Canada where he lived for the rest of his life, very close to the U.S. border. He often visited my grandfather in Ohio, and my grandfather often went to Canada to see him. Jackie Researching: ~~~~~~~Poland~~~~~~~ ADAMOWICZ - BANASZEK - BURDA CHOJNACKI / HOJNACKI MIKULSKI / MIKOLSKY CIEBIEN~ - MAZIK - KROL / KRUL ~~~~~~~Croatia~~~~~~~ OCVIRAK / OCVIREK - SNEPERGER

I'm sure a lot of you get the e-newsletter from Family History Magazine. But this article stuck out as something that might be of interest to the members of the list. Especially the mention of those immigrants who were detained for whatever reason. My Polish grandfather was detained for eight days because he was just a few months shy of the minimum age of 16 (to emigrate alone). I hadn't been able to find his exact manifest and used the "missing manifests" website to page through all the documents for my grandfather's particular ship. I did find him on the listing, and also on the list of detained individuals. From that I also discovered the name of his brother, who apparently had to come from Ohio to get him. The detained list was at the front of the group of documents for my grandfather's ship. This article also indicates it could be at the end. Name Changes at Ellis Island Q: Were names actually changed by immigration officials at Ellis Island? A: No documented case proves that any immigrant's name was changed by Ellis Island officials. The passenger lists were prepared at the port of departure, using the papers the emigrant provided. The blank lists were provided to the shipping lines by the United States and were to be filled in as the passengers boarded the ship. Names were copied from the documents carried by the emigrants. On board the ship the officials were required to document any births or deaths that occurred during the passage. Once the ship arrived in New York harbor, the first-class and cabin passengers disembarked at a pier, and the steerage passengers were transported by ferry to Ellis Island (or Castle Garden, depending on the time frame) for processing. Numerous pictures of immigrants who had slips of paper bearing numbers attached to their clothing appear in the many books on immigration. These numbers corresponded to the list number that the immigrant appeared on. Officials asked the same questions that were asked when the passengers boarded the ship. The officials were instructed merely to verify the answers and had no need to write any names down—they were already recorded on the list. If an immigrant appeared to be ill or of questionable character, was a woman traveling alone, or perhaps gave different answers than what was recorded on the list, she might have been detained. Her name would have been transcribed onto the list of detained passengers, usually at the end of the passenger list (for New York records only), and a record of all inquiries regarding that individual was maintained. A woman traveling alone was detained until a male relative showed up to get her. Many times the detained passenger list states the name and relationship of that male relative; in such instances you will have even more information. Best wishes, Jackie Researching: ~~~~~~~Poland~~~~~~~ ADAMOWICZ - BANASZEK - BURDA CHOJNACKI / HOJNACKI MIKULSKI / MIKOLSKY CIEBIEN~ - MAZIK - KROL / KRUL ~~~~~~~Croatia~~~~~~~ OCVIRAK / OCVIREK - SNEPERGER

"Birkholz, James" wrote: > > This triggers some questions.... > > I've been looking at the Ellis Island website's passenger lists. > A 16 yr old Mate Belobrajdic, traveling to his cousin in Pittsburg, Pa has > "Deported" stamped at the beginning of his entry. > No physical problems are noted. Perhaps he lied about his age and got > caught. Any other ideas? If he was deported, who paid his fare back to > Croatia? What is the logic of sending an underage traveler back? That's like > a weary swimmer getting halfway across the channel and deciding they are too > tired to finish so they turn back... ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------ James During its first decade at Ellis Island and other ports, the Immigration Service formalized basic immigration procedures. Inspectors questioned arrivals about their admissibility and noted their admission or rejection on manifest records. Detention Guards and Matrons cared for those people detained pending decisions in their cases or, if the decision was negative, awaiting deportation. Inspectors also served on Boards of Special Inquiry that closely reviewed each exclusion case. Often, aliens were excluded because they lacked funds or had no friends or relatives nearby. In these cases the Board of Special Inquiry usually admitted the person if someone could post bond or one of the immigrant aid societies would take responsibility for the alien. No female traveling alone could leave Ellis Island unless accompanied by a male relative or her spouse. Some prospective bridegrooms in U.S. went to Ellis Island and married their detained prospective brides so latter could leave detention and Ellis Island. Those denied admission by the Board were deported at the expense of the transportation company (ship line) that brought the alien to the port. This is why Last Residence was listed in ship manifests. So deported emigrants could be returned to a destination in Europe or wherever. http://www.genealogyweb.com/island.html v Frank Kurcina --------------------------------------- > > -----Original Message----- > > From: Jackie (nee Adamowicz) [SMTP:wordsmith@att.net] > > Sent: Thursday, May 16, 2002 10:14 AM > > To: CROATIA-L@rootsweb.com > > Subject: [CROATIA-L] Name changes at Ellis Island > > > > I'm sure a lot of you get the e-newsletter from Family History Magazine. > > But this article stuck out as something that might be of interest to the > > members of the list. > > Especially the mention of those immigrants who were detained for whatever > > reason. > > My Polish grandfather was detained for eight days because he was just a > > few > > months shy > > of the minimum age of 16 (to emigrate alone). I hadn't been able to find > > his exact manifest and > > used the "missing manifests" website to page through all the documents for > > > > my grandfather's > > > ---snip---

This triggers some questions.... I've been looking at the Ellis Island website's passenger lists. A 16 yr old Mate Belobrajdic, traveling to his cousin in Pittsburg, Pa has "Deported" stamped at the beginning of his entry. No physical problems are noted. Perhaps he lied about his age and got caught. Any other ideas? If he was deported, who paid his fare back to Croatia? What is the logic of sending an underage traveler back? That's like a weary swimmer getting halfway across the channel and deciding they are too tired to finish so they turn back... James > -----Original Message----- > From: Jackie (nee Adamowicz) [SMTP:wordsmith@att.net] > Sent: Thursday, May 16, 2002 10:14 AM > To: CROATIA-L@rootsweb.com > Subject: [CROATIA-L] Name changes at Ellis Island > > I'm sure a lot of you get the e-newsletter from Family History Magazine. > But this article stuck out as something that might be of interest to the > members of the list. > Especially the mention of those immigrants who were detained for whatever > reason. > My Polish grandfather was detained for eight days because he was just a > few > months shy > of the minimum age of 16 (to emigrate alone). I hadn't been able to find > his exact manifest and > used the "missing manifests" website to page through all the documents for > > my grandfather's > ---snip---

At 08:48 AM 5/16/2002, you wrote: >According to legend Saint Barbara was a young woman killed by her >father Dioscorus, who was then killed by a bolt of lightning. Now there's an interesting legend! Thank you, Frank... Jackie Researching: ~~~~~~~Poland~~~~~~~ ADAMOWICZ - BANASZEK - BURDA CHOJNACKI / HOJNACKI MIKULSKI / MIKOLSKY CIEBIEN~ - MAZIK - KROL / KRUL ~~~~~~~Croatia~~~~~~~ OCVIRAK / OCVIREK - SNEPERGER