I checked the CroatianGenWeb page to find out if the FHL might have filmed the church records of the towm of Tompojevci. It doesn't have that town listed. I was wondering if anyone might know if that town's records may have been filmed with a region or what films I might try. I was in touch with someone about a year ago who lived near there and had located a record of a birth in the church records for my PAKLEDINAC surname. But have since lost contact. Any help anyone can give would be greatly appreciated. Thanks, Christopher Shawchristopher.shaw@shawgenealogy.com Researching Surnames: Lucas, Pakledinaz, Hinterhauser, Csihas, Piller, Kehl(Kohl) --------------------------------- Do You Yahoo!? Sign-up for Video Highlights of 2002 FIFA World Cup

could it mean obcinski=obcina being parish? Rosana ----- Original Message ----- From: "Frank Kurchina" <frankur@worldnet.att.net> To: <CROATIA-L@rootsweb.com> Sent: Friday, June 14, 2002 1:25 AM Subject: Re: [CROATIA-L] "obc. lugar" > > > "Birkholz, James" wrote: > > > > I understand that "lugar" means "forester", but the first part of the answer > > I don't understand. > > > > We found this phrase again in another record (same man), and would like to > > know if "obc." means "occupation, or if we got the spelling wrong and no one > > can figure out what it is supposed to be... > > > > TIA, > > James and Tami Birkholz > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > From: Frank Kurchina [SMTP:frankur@worldnet.att.net] > > > Sent: Wednesday, June 12, 2002 3:51 PM > > > To: CROATIA-L@rootsweb.com > > > Subject: Re: [CROATIA-L] "obc. lugar" > > > > > > > > > > > > =James Birkholz= wrote: > > > > > > > > We are curious about this phrase between the father and mother's name in > > > a > > > > christening record: > > > > "obc'. lugar" (as best we can decipher). > > > > > > > > James and Tami Birkholz > > > > > > > > > father's name, mother's name , occupation > > > > > > lugar = forester, ranger > > normally, status or occupation was ' stalis' > occupation is okupacija > > abbrev. 'obc.' ? >

Davor wrote: > > could it mean obcinski=obcina being parish? > Rosana Parish is z^upnija in Slovene and z^upa in Croatian. Administrative unit, county is called z^upanija in Croatian. But, I think you are correct. In 1945, all birth, marriage, and death records held by churches in Croatia were turned over to the civil authorities and were deposited with the 'opc'ina' (community city office). For small villages or places that did not have a city office - the opc'ina would then be in the next largest village or town. (ópc^ina is the same word in Slovene) Today, there are 416 municipalities (opc'ine sg. opc'ina) under the 20 z^upanija (county) in Croatia. Croatia has 6694 settlements, consisting of 205 cities and 6489 villages. Each settlement couldn't have had its own forester; only larger districts that had game and/or forests could have supported such an ocupational bearer. > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Frank Kurchina" <frankur@worldnet.att.net> > To: <CROATIA-L@rootsweb.com> > Sent: Friday, June 14, 2002 1:25 AM > Subject: Re: [CROATIA-L] "obc. lugar" > > > > > > > "Birkholz, James" wrote: > > > > > > I understand that "lugar" means "forester", but the first part of the > answer > > > I don't understand. > > > > > > We found this phrase again in another record (same man), and would like > to > > > know if "obc." means "occupation, or if we got the spelling wrong and no > one > > > can figure out what it is supposed to be... > > > > > > TIA, > > > James and Tami Birkholz > > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > > From: Frank Kurchina [SMTP:frankur@worldnet.att.net] > > > > Sent: Wednesday, June 12, 2002 3:51 PM > > > > To: CROATIA-L@rootsweb.com > > > > Subject: Re: [CROATIA-L] "obc. lugar" > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > =James Birkholz= wrote: > > > > > > > > > > We are curious about this phrase between the father and mother's > name in > > > > a > > > > > christening record: > > > > > "obc'. lugar" (as best we can decipher). > > > > > > > > > > James and Tami Birkholz > > > > > > > > > > > > father's name, mother's name , occupation > > > > > > > > lugar = forester, ranger > > > > normally, status or occupation was ' stalis' > > occupation is okupacija > > > > abbrev. 'obc.' ? > >

> >>From cousin Pat to me, forwarded to you lightly edited. I thought >>we hadn't had a joke for a long time and found this quite amusing. >>As Pat is Croatian too, it's sent to the Croatia list. Bog's na ( >>probably mispelt that, didn't I ) Ashley >> >>__________________________________________________ >> >>Subject: Why God Created Eve... >>subtitle: When God created Adam, she had a few problems >> >> >> >>10. God was worried that Adam would frequently become lost in the garden >>because he would not ask for directions. >> >>9. God knew that one day Adam would require someone to locate and hand >>him the remote. >> >>8. God knew Adam would never go out and buy himself a new fig leaf when >>his wore out and would therefore need Eve to buy one for him. >> >>7. God knew Adam would never be able to make a doctor's, dentist's or >>haircut appointment by himself. >> >>6. God knew Adam would never remember which night to put the garbage on >>the curb. >> >>5. God knew if the world was to be populated, men would never be able to >>handle the pain and discomfort of childbearing. >> >>4. As the Keeper of the Garden, Adam would never remember where he left >>his tools. >> >>3. Apparently, Adam needed someone to blame his troubles on when God >>caught him hiding in the garden. >> >>2. As the Bible says, "It is not good for man to be alone." >> >> >>And, finally, the Number 1 reason why >>God created Eve.... >> >> >>1. When God finished the creation of Adam, She stepped back, scratched >>her head, and said, "I can do better than that!" > > >-- > --

"Birkholz, James" wrote: > > I understand that "lugar" means "forester", but the first part of the answer > I don't understand. > > We found this phrase again in another record (same man), and would like to > know if "obc." means "occupation, or if we got the spelling wrong and no one > can figure out what it is supposed to be... > > TIA, > James and Tami Birkholz > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: Frank Kurchina [SMTP:frankur@worldnet.att.net] > > Sent: Wednesday, June 12, 2002 3:51 PM > > To: CROATIA-L@rootsweb.com > > Subject: Re: [CROATIA-L] "obc. lugar" > > > > > > > > =James Birkholz= wrote: > > > > > > We are curious about this phrase between the father and mother's name in > > a > > > christening record: > > > "obc'. lugar" (as best we can decipher). > > > > > > James and Tami Birkholz > > > > > > father's name, mother's name , occupation > > > > lugar = forester, ranger normally, status or occupation was ' stalis' occupation is okupacija abbrev. 'obc.' ?

In a message dated 6/12/2002 11:07:45 PM Central Daylight Time, JTrocano@msn.com writes: > Davor, > Have you found any info on your ancestors? My father was born in a > Antovo Croatia. > In 1933 the family moved to Argentina. The section that they live is > mostly Croatian transplants! If you like , we can ask around. Diane Diane, Would you perchance know if any of the Croatians in Argentina had any ties to Cabuna or that area. I recall hearing my father often got mail from Argentina written in Croatian but no one seems to know who the letters were from. Any help would be greatly appreciated. Chuck

I understand that "lugar" means "forester", but the first part of the answer I don't understand. We found this phrase again in another record (same man), and would like to know if "obc." means "occupation, or if we got the spelling wrong and no one can figure out what it is supposed to be... TIA, James and Tami Birkholz > -----Original Message----- > From: Frank Kurchina [SMTP:frankur@worldnet.att.net] > Sent: Wednesday, June 12, 2002 3:51 PM > To: CROATIA-L@rootsweb.com > Subject: Re: [CROATIA-L] "obc. lugar" > > > > =James Birkholz= wrote: > > > > We are curious about this phrase between the father and mother's name in > a > > christening record: > > "obc'. lugar" (as best we can decipher). > > > > James and Tami Birkholz > > > father's name, mother's name , occupation > > lugar = forester, ranger

I wonder if it should be udati = marry za = to iz = from Mary -----Original Message----- From: =James Birkholz= [mailto:j.birchwood@verizon.net] Sent: Wednesday, 12 June 2002 11:35 PM To: CROATIA-L@rootsweb.com Subject: [CROATIA-L] "uslata zu" + "ij" We are curious about a comment made after a christening record: "uslata zu Matija Mihalc~ic' ij Homera" does this mean "married to Matthew "Michaelson" of Homer"? (Is Mihelic (sp?) the most common Croatian surname? We see it so often). (Is "zu" the same as the German word?) James and Tami Birkholz

Davor, Have you found any info on your ancestors? My father was born in a Antovo Croatia. In 1933 the family moved to Argentina. The section that they live is mostly Croatian transplants! If you like , we can ask around. Diane ----- Original Message ----- From: Davor Sent: Saturday, June 01, 2002 1:14 PM To: CROATIA-L@rootsweb.com Subject: [CROATIA-L] Dumencic Hello,we are looking for our ancestors, coming from Lika, Croatia, immigrated to Argentina either before or during the first or second world war, their names are Anton, Josip and another whose name we don't know Dumencic.Thank you for any information possible, Davor and Rosana Dumencic

zemlja = earth, earthly, land, soil -----Original Message----- From: Maryanne Lawrie [mailto:m.lawrie@walter.net.au] Sent: Wednesday, 12 June 2002 3:25 PM To: CROATIA-L@rootsweb.com Subject: RE: [CROATIA-L] Translation Help Please Ovdje =Here pociva = rests laka = easily, lightly numu, (njemu) = him -----Original Message----- From: TACODMK@aol.com [mailto:TACODMK@aol.com] Sent: Wednesday, 12 June 2002 3:20 PM To: CROATIA-L@rootsweb.com Subject: [CROATIA-L] Translation Help Please I finally found the grave of my grandfather but could some one please help in the translation I think I copied it right the stone was worn pretty badly Blaz Blavevic OVDJE POCIVA LAKA NUMU ZEMLJA 1885-1923 Thank you Donna

Ovdje =Here pociva = rests laka = easily, lightly numu, (njemu) = him -----Original Message----- From: TACODMK@aol.com [mailto:TACODMK@aol.com] Sent: Wednesday, 12 June 2002 3:20 PM To: CROATIA-L@rootsweb.com Subject: [CROATIA-L] Translation Help Please I finally found the grave of my grandfather but could some one please help in the translation I think I copied it right the stone was worn pretty badly Blaz Blavevic OVDJE POCIVA LAKA NUMU ZEMLJA 1885-1923 Thank you Donna

=James Birkholz= wrote: > > On the current set of records, we've noticed that the priest is using > "polj" instead of "selj." for telling us that they are farmers by trade. > How common was this? > > James and Tami Birkholz occupation seljani or selj. = peasant slejak = farmer polje = field

=James Birkholz= wrote: > > We are curious about this phrase between the father and mother's name in a > christening record: > "obc'. lugar" (as best we can decipher). > > James and Tami Birkholz father's name, mother's name , occupation lugar = forester, ranger

In the only 2 villages I've been in looking for house numbers, the homes were numbered consecutively with a lot of, eg, 27, 27a, 27b, 27c...- it appeared that the numbers without letters were older, original homes and the others filled in as they were built. But that's just an observation from looking for house numbers in two villages that were within a few kilometers of each other. John Batusic ________________________________________________________________ GET INTERNET ACCESS FROM JUNO! Juno offers FREE or PREMIUM Internet access for less! Join Juno today! For your FREE software, visit: http://dl.www.juno.com/get/web/.

I am not sure about the answers to you house numbering questions but I would like to add a couple of comments. First, a great many of these so-called "villages" were simply a cluster of houses. One "village" I came upon had only 4 houses in it. In the house that my father was born in, a second story has now been added; the original house number was 41 with the second story becoming 42. Many of these small "villages" are now simply part and parcel of urban areas with no distinctiveness other than a sign. Secondly, I do know that the priest's records called Status Amimarum or Stanja Dusa were organized by village, then house number, then family name. It was, I believe, the priests way of viewing a family history without having the burdensome job of thumbing through the heavy original books which were organized by topic (birth, death and marriage), then chronologically. The Status Amimarum was a short cut. If you knew a date, you could then easily look up the original record, as needed. Many of the original records have the house number recorded in the entries. I assume this was to facilitate the later summarization in the Status Amimarum ledger. By the way when you find such a page on your family, it is a treasurer chest because ALL the family data for members living at that address are recorded here back to the early 1800s and the record is usually all on one page. FURTHER, this record is pure gold because it is also a cross-index to the men and women who married the children living at this address. So, by going to the page containing the village and address number of the spouse, you get the same entire information on the spouse's family. No, let me correct myself- -it is not gold- - rather it is a DIAMOND MINE for researchers. The drawback- - -you have to get it in person or have someone do it for you. Dick Puz

Thank you Maryann Donna

On the current set of records, we've noticed that the priest is using "polj" instead of "selj." for telling us that they are farmers by trade. How common was this? James and Tami Birkholz

We are curious about a comment made after a christening record: "uslata zu Matija Mihalc~ic' ij Homera" does this mean "married to Matthew "Michaelson" of Homer"? (Is Mihelic (sp?) the most common Croatian surname? We see it so often). (Is "zu" the same as the German word?) James and Tami Birkholz

We are curious about this phrase between the father and mother's name in a christening record: "obc'. lugar" (as best we can decipher). James and Tami Birkholz

"Birkholz, James" wrote: > > We've seen the surname "Cop" written many ways: Coop, Csoop, Czoop > But it seems to have stabilized at Co~p. > > We are curious about the pronounciation and how the earlier spellings fit. > > James and Tami Birkholz Certain archaic letter combinations occurred in Hungarian family names. cz = c in modern spelling ch, ts = cs in modern spelling Some Croatian characters (letters) employ diacritic-accent marks (i.e. caret, caron, hac^ek, or strés^ica) Croatia formalized their alphabet about 1850 with the introduction of a diacritical system. Example, letters "c" v c pronounced as " ch " in English word ch-urch. c' pronounced as " ch " in English word ch-eap. c is pronounced as " ts " in English word tse-tse. The Croatian records microfilmed have greater linguistic diversity than for most other geographic regions. Latin, Croatian, Slovene, Serbian, German, Hungarian, or Italian are possible languages used.