was there a photo of them on it??????????????? shawn ----- Original Message ----- From: Elaine Sharp Sent: Monday, June 24, 2002 4:50 PM To: CROATIA-L@rootsweb.com Subject: [CROATIA-L] Naturalization Papers Hello Co-Listers, I just received a relative's naturalization papers who came from Portugal. Here is what the Boston Archives sent in only 1 week! 1. Certificate of Arrival 2. Declaration of Intention 3. Petition for Citizenship 4. I already had the Certificate of Citizenship and was able to give them the numbers on it. And I guess I am lucky I received all the information I was looking for. Elaine

> was there a photo of them on it??????????????? > shawn Yes, there was a photo on the Certificate of Citizenship. Elaine

JPIPICH@aol.com wrote: > > In a message dated 6/24/2002 10:24:53 PM Pacific Daylight Time, > frankur@worldnet.att.net writes: > > > http://www.ludbreg.hr/ardf/vartoplice/vartoplice.htm > > > > Thanks Frank > > I had bookmarked the web site you gave me but did not understand it was the > village. My in-laws insist their father came from St. Martin's Village, > Croatia and he listed St. Martin Parish on his naturalization. Is St.Martin's > Church in "Toplice"? > > Joan I don't know. Sv = sveti = saint Term Sv Martin Parish, Hrvati is pretty generic. For example, The Church of St Martin at Lepuri http://www.mhas-split.hr/eng/frames/tekstovi/istrazivanja/istrazivanja_1.htm And there are 7 place names Sveti Martin located in Croatia. (Kerestinac is located 10 miles WSW of Zagreb) A Sveti Martin pod Okicem is located 12 miles WSW of Zagreb. The LDS filmed its R.C. parish church records (1670-1900) Now called Martin pod Okicem. Text in Latin and Croatian. There may be a connection between your two surnames ? v Frank Kurcina

Hello Joan, I've answered several queries from this town, which is near Samobor (famous for krempita pastry... mmm!) KERESTINEC Croatia 9.9 miles WSW of Zagreb http://www.mapquest.com/maps/map.adp?latlongtype=decimal&latitude=45.7667&lo ngitude=15.8000 What can we say about our politics and our sense of geography in the US! US documents refered to "Yugoslavia" prior to the official declaration by the king of a royal dictatorship in 1929. Robert Jerin Croatian Heritage Museum Cleveland, Ohio ----- Original Message ----- From: <JPIPICH@aol.com> To: <CROATIA-L@rootsweb.com> Sent: Tuesday, June 25, 2002 12:19 AM Subject: [CROATIA-L] St. Martin Parish Horvati > Hi List, > > Looking for information about this location in Croatia. Has anyone heard of > it. I cannot find it on a map. Also St. Nedela Parish, Kerestinac. These are > locations on naturalization papers and both are listed in Yugoslavia but not > Croatia. The surnames are Pipic (Pipich) and Dekanic (Dekanich) respectively. > > Thanks for any help. > > Joan >

I don't know what the likely meaning would be but consider that Croatia was a kingdom or associated with a kingdom from 925-1929. royal - kraljev royal - kraljevski head - glavica head - pritisak ----- Original Message ----- From: "Birkholz, James" <James.Birkholz@usa.okmetic.com> To: <CROATIA-L@rootsweb.com> Sent: Tuesday, June 25, 2002 12:08 AM Subject: RE: [CROATIA-L] gospodin/gopoja > Dragi gospodin Jerin, > > Which is the more likely meaning? > 1) Head forester > 2) Royal forester > > Is there any significant difference between s"umar and lugar? > > Thanks to all, > James > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: Robert Jerin [SMTP:rjerin@adelphia.net] > > Sent: Monday, June 24, 2002 10:59 PM > > To: CROATIA-L@rootsweb.com > > Subject: Re: [CROATIA-L] gospodin/gopoja > > > > Dragi gospodin Birkholtz, > > > > gospodja = mrs > > > > kralj = king > > > > s"umar = woodsman > > > > I've seen the term kralj pesnika = king of poets but king of > > woodsmen....... > > ? > > > > Is there now a need to explain gospodin? (gospodeen) > > > > Bog, > > Robert > > > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > From: "=James Birkholz=" <j.birchwood@verizon.net> > > To: <CROATIA-L@rootsweb.com> > > Sent: Monday, June 24, 2002 11:23 PM > > Subject: [CROATIA-L] gospodin/gopoja > > > > > > > I've encountered a few birth records where "g." is placed before both > > > parent's names, usually parents from a different town or with > > > foreign-sounding names. I finally found an entry with what must be the > > > whole words that are being abbreviated in the other entries. Can anyone > > > tell me what "gospodin" (with the father's name) and "gopoja" (with the > > > mother's name) mean? > > > > > > Further, in the non-abbreviated entry, "kralj S~umar" follows the > > father's > > > name. What does this mean? > > > > > > TIA, > > > James > > > >

Village people or peasants were/are called seljak (sing) seljaci (pl). Narod literally translates; people, folk, nation. While seljak translates; peasant. Ex. Hrvatska Seljacka Stranka=Croatian Peasant Party. But as member of the Croatian Sabor (Parliament) stated a few years ago, "we all need to remember most of us are only one generation removed from being seljaci. Robert ----- Original Message ----- From: "Maryanne Lawrie" <m.lawrie@walter.net.au> To: <CROATIA-L@rootsweb.com> Sent: Monday, June 24, 2002 11:52 PM Subject: RE: [CROATIA-L] gospodin/gopoja > Gospodin = Mr > Gospodine = Sir > Gospoda = Mrs > Gospodica = Miss, young lady > Gospodar = Lord, maaster, boss > > The Croatian elite were at one time known as Gospoda and peasants / working > hands, less educated were known as narod. > > Mary > > > > -----Original Message----- > From: =James Birkholz= [mailto:j.birchwood@verizon.net] > Sent: Tuesday, 25 June 2002 1:24 PM > To: CROATIA-L@rootsweb.com > Subject: [CROATIA-L] gospodin/gopoja > > > I've encountered a few birth records where "g." is placed before both > parent's names, usually parents from a different town or with > foreign-sounding names. I finally found an entry with what must be the > whole words that are being abbreviated in the other entries. Can anyone > tell me what "gospodin" (with the father's name) and "gopoja" (with the > mother's name) mean? > > Further, in the non-abbreviated entry, "kralj S~umar" follows the father's > name. What does this mean? > > TIA, > James >

In a message dated 6/24/2002 10:24:53 PM Pacific Daylight Time, frankur@worldnet.att.net writes: > http://www.ludbreg.hr/ardf/vartoplice/vartoplice.htm > Thanks Frank I had bookmarked the web site you gave me but did not understand it was the village. My in-laws insist their father came from St. Martin's Village, Croatia and he listed St. Martin Parish on his naturalization. Is St.Martin's Church in "Toplice"? Joan

Hi List, Looking for information about this location in Croatia. Has anyone heard of it. I cannot find it on a map. Also St. Nedela Parish, Kerestinac. These are locations on naturalization papers and both are listed in Yugoslavia but not Croatia. The surnames are Pipic (Pipich) and Dekanic (Dekanich) respectively. Thanks for any help. Joan

Dragi gospodin Birkholtz, gospodja = mrs kralj = king s"umar = woodsman I've seen the term kralj pesnika = king of poets but king of woodsmen....... ? Is there now a need to explain gospodin? (gospodeen) Bog, Robert ----- Original Message ----- From: "=James Birkholz=" <j.birchwood@verizon.net> To: <CROATIA-L@rootsweb.com> Sent: Monday, June 24, 2002 11:23 PM Subject: [CROATIA-L] gospodin/gopoja > I've encountered a few birth records where "g." is placed before both > parent's names, usually parents from a different town or with > foreign-sounding names. I finally found an entry with what must be the > whole words that are being abbreviated in the other entries. Can anyone > tell me what "gospodin" (with the father's name) and "gopoja" (with the > mother's name) mean? > > Further, in the non-abbreviated entry, "kralj S~umar" follows the father's > name. What does this mean? > > TIA, > James >

JPIPICH@aol.com wrote: > > Hi List, > > Looking for information about this location in Croatia. Has anyone heard of > it. I cannot find it on a map. Also St. Nedela Parish, Kerestinac. These are > locations on naturalization papers and both are listed in Yugoslavia but not > Croatia. The surnames are Pipic (Pipich) and Dekanic (Dekanich) respectively. > > Thanks for any help. > > Joan Kerestinac is a small village located 10 miles WSW of Zagreb, Croatia. St. Martin Parish Church http://www.ludbreg.hr/ardf/vartoplice/vartoplice.htm v Frank Kurcina

Dragi gospodin Jerin, Which is the more likely meaning? 1) Head forester 2) Royal forester Is there any significant difference between s"umar and lugar? Thanks to all, James > -----Original Message----- > From: Robert Jerin [SMTP:rjerin@adelphia.net] > Sent: Monday, June 24, 2002 10:59 PM > To: CROATIA-L@rootsweb.com > Subject: Re: [CROATIA-L] gospodin/gopoja > > Dragi gospodin Birkholtz, > > gospodja = mrs > > kralj = king > > s"umar = woodsman > > I've seen the term kralj pesnika = king of poets but king of > woodsmen....... > ? > > Is there now a need to explain gospodin? (gospodeen) > > Bog, > Robert > > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "=James Birkholz=" <j.birchwood@verizon.net> > To: <CROATIA-L@rootsweb.com> > Sent: Monday, June 24, 2002 11:23 PM > Subject: [CROATIA-L] gospodin/gopoja > > > > I've encountered a few birth records where "g." is placed before both > > parent's names, usually parents from a different town or with > > foreign-sounding names. I finally found an entry with what must be the > > whole words that are being abbreviated in the other entries. Can anyone > > tell me what "gospodin" (with the father's name) and "gopoja" (with the > > mother's name) mean? > > > > Further, in the non-abbreviated entry, "kralj S~umar" follows the > father's > > name. What does this mean? > > > > TIA, > > James > >

I've encountered a few birth records where "g." is placed before both parent's names, usually parents from a different town or with foreign-sounding names. I finally found an entry with what must be the whole words that are being abbreviated in the other entries. Can anyone tell me what "gospodin" (with the father's name) and "gopoja" (with the mother's name) mean? Further, in the non-abbreviated entry, "kralj S~umar" follows the father's name. What does this mean? TIA, James

=James Birkholz= wrote: > > I've encountered a few birth records where "g." is placed before both > parent's names, usually parents from a different town or with > foreign-sounding names. I finally found an entry with what must be the > whole words that are being abbreviated in the other entries. Can anyone > tell me what "gospodin" (with the father's name) and "gopoja" (with the > mother's name) mean? > > Further, in the non-abbreviated entry, "kralj S~umar" follows the father's > name. What does this mean? > > TIA, > James Your familytree had surname bearers who were foresters by occcupation. s^umar = forester kralj = probably meant royal The formal title was Gd~a + surname Mister Mr = gospodin (masc) Mrs = gospod~a (fem) Miss = gospod~ica master = gosod~ar D~ = Croatian letter d pron. dj as in English word 'jet' v Frank Kurcina

on 6/24/02 3:10 PM, Robert Jerin at rjerin@adelphia.net wrote: > Hello Mary, > > If you look at the ship manifest from 1910 it is stamped Non Immigrant > Alien, meaning this was not his first trip to the US. In 1913 he arr with > nephew Dragutin (Charles). And if he arr for the first time in the US in > 1910 I don't believe that 3 years would have been enough for him to be a > citizen. > > Robert Jerin > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Mary Hegarty" <mhegarty@cybertron.com> > To: <CROATIA-L@rootsweb.com> > Sent: Monday, June 24, 2002 10:28 AM > Subject: [CROATIA-L] Luke (luka) Pavokovic > > >> Hi List!I found some information this morning at EIR about Luke Pavokovic, > I >> believe my grandmother's brother who arrived in NY from Croatia in 1910. > The >> new information is from 1922. He arrived home from a trip abroad. He was >> living in Los Angeles and was now a naturalized citizen. The date of >> naturalization was Nov. 25, 1913 in the District Court of New York. This > is >> a big break through for me. I have never requested naturalization >> information before and I was wondering if anyone has any tips about how to >> go about it, the cost, what kinds of information they contain, etc. >> Thanks for any help. It is greatly appreciated. >> Mary Hegarty >> Robert, That is so interesting. As it turns out I can't get into EI right now but I have a copy of the manifest. He was only 21 in 1910 so he must have been quite young when he arrived. I know there are only 9 Pavokovics listed in EI and two records belong to him. And I don't see him with his sister, my grandmother Maria Fanta, in 1909. Of course it could be somewhere else misspelled. I wonder who he came over with? His mother, my ggrandmother was still in Croatia. Dragutin actually came over in 1910. Mary

http://www.lvarea.com/data/usp_info.htm ----- Original Message ----- From: <dave9759@juno.com> To: <CROATIA-L@rootsweb.com> Sent: Monday, June 24, 2002 5:44 PM Subject: Re: [CROATIA-L] Kristovich in Penitentiary > This may sound too simple, try writing to the warden of the facility, and > inquire if records of a family member(deceased) may be obtained for > historical purposes. > My mother had written to a warden once who was very cooperative, and gave > the information requested - I wish everything was that easy. > Dave > On Mon, 24 Jun 2002 15:49:20 -0500 "John and Helene Ennor" > <Ennor@cfu.net> writes: > > I have finally found one of my relatives (Joe Kristovich) in the 1920 > > Fed. Census. He was a prisoner in Leavenworth, Kansas. My question > > is, has anyone ever requested a prison record? If so how did you go > > about it? Did it contain anything of value? > > Thanks much. > > Helene Ennor > > ennor@cfu.net > > > > >

This may sound too simple, try writing to the warden of the facility, and inquire if records of a family member(deceased) may be obtained for historical purposes. My mother had written to a warden once who was very cooperative, and gave the information requested - I wish everything was that easy. Dave On Mon, 24 Jun 2002 15:49:20 -0500 "John and Helene Ennor" <Ennor@cfu.net> writes: > I have finally found one of my relatives (Joe Kristovich) in the 1920 > Fed. Census. He was a prisoner in Leavenworth, Kansas. My question > is, has anyone ever requested a prison record? If so how did you go > about it? Did it contain anything of value? > Thanks much. > Helene Ennor > ennor@cfu.net > >

Hello Mary, If you look at the ship manifest from 1910 it is stamped Non Immigrant Alien, meaning this was not his first trip to the US. In 1913 he arr with nephew Dragutin (Charles). And if he arr for the first time in the US in 1910 I don't believe that 3 years would have been enough for him to be a citizen. Robert Jerin ----- Original Message ----- From: "Mary Hegarty" <mhegarty@cybertron.com> To: <CROATIA-L@rootsweb.com> Sent: Monday, June 24, 2002 10:28 AM Subject: [CROATIA-L] Luke (luka) Pavokovic > Hi List!I found some information this morning at EIR about Luke Pavokovic, I > believe my grandmother's brother who arrived in NY from Croatia in 1910. The > new information is from 1922. He arrived home from a trip abroad. He was > living in Los Angeles and was now a naturalized citizen. The date of > naturalization was Nov. 25, 1913 in the District Court of New York. This is > a big break through for me. I have never requested naturalization > information before and I was wondering if anyone has any tips about how to > go about it, the cost, what kinds of information they contain, etc. > Thanks for any help. It is greatly appreciated. > Mary Hegarty >

I have finally found one of my relatives (Joe Kristovich) in the 1920 Fed. Census. He was a prisoner in Leavenworth, Kansas. My question is, has anyone ever requested a prison record? If so how did you go about it? Did it contain anything of value? Thanks much. Helene Ennor ennor@cfu.net

Neither web page appears to work! ----- Original Message ----- From: "Nancy Tadie" <ntadie@worldshare.net> To: <CROATIA-L@rootsweb.com> Sent: Monday, June 24, 2002 2:12 PM Subject: Re: [CROATIA-L] Luke (luka) Pavokovic > > Hi from a fellow Croatian researcher! > In your quest you might try two websites: > http://www.home.att.net/arnielang/ship08.html > http://www.mass.doc.com/naturalization_research.htm > I hope these help. My quest for naturalization papers not > successful--so far. Form costs $20 as I recall. > Am going to try again for more info. Nancy Tadie > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Mary Hegarty" <mhegarty@cybertron.com> > To: <CROATIA-L@rootsweb.com> > Sent: Monday, June 24, 2002 7:28 AM > Subject: [CROATIA-L] Luke (luka) Pavokovic > > > > Hi List!I found some information this morning at EIR about Luke Pavokovic, > I > > believe my grandmother's brother who arrived in NY from Croatia in 1910. > The > > new information is from 1922. He arrived home from a trip abroad. He was > > living in Los Angeles and was now a naturalized citizen. The date of > > naturalization was Nov. 25, 1913 in the District Court of New York. This > is > > a big break through for me. I have never requested naturalization > > information before and I was wondering if anyone has any tips about how to > > go about it, the cost, what kinds of information they contain, etc. > > Thanks for any help. It is greatly appreciated. > > Mary Hegarty > > >

Hello Co-Listers, I just received a relative's naturalization papers who came from Portugal. Here is what the Boston Archives sent in only 1 week! 1. Certificate of Arrival 2. Declaration of Intention 3. Petition for Citizenship 4. I already had the Certificate of Citizenship and was able to give them the numbers on it. And I guess I am lucky I received all the information I was looking for. Elaine