I just saw some Slovenian zelodec in the local Jubilee store. That means stomach--Zeludac in Croation. The stomac was used as a caseing. Most use plastic now. ----- Original Message ----- From: "ashley tiwara" <[email protected]> To: <[email protected]> Sent: Saturday, April 02, 2005 12:21 AM Subject: [CROATIA-L] umprig > I've been trying for two days to think of what Grandma called roux. It's > ' umprig. ' When you make potato - rice soup, first you start with the > browned flour, the umprig. > > Ashley > P.S. I could wish the list would stop the torture of all those > mouthwatering tastes posted to the mailing list. My mouth salivates and > there's not even a smell in the real time. Less food! please. > > P.P.S. Mom, who is 90 this year, made zeludac Easter Saturday, with her > home helper doing the lifting. Good for Mom altogether, and her Mom would > have been proud of the excellent taste. > ----- Original Message ----- > From: Jerome Buza > To: [email protected] > Sent: Friday, April 01, 2005 10:29 PM > Subject: Re: [CROATIA-L] Croatian recipe links > > > Hi Bill, Welcome back to Arizona. I look forward to meeting with you and > your wife and hearing about your trip. Today was the first time I heard > the > word "zafrig" and I started looking thru my cookbooks as my mom and > grandmother called it Aimprem, Eimprem or Einbrenne. I have a cookbook > St. > Anthony's Croatian Church in LA and found the "zafrig" sauce in there. > >

Yes, we should organize a big "eat in"! Now that stomach Ashley talks about. I do not know it but the other day (on Google of course) I found out that this is a Gorski Kotar specialty. Maybe more Mrkopalj than Fuzina? And the 90y old lady enjoying her cooking. What a prescient training she got! I had a relative who got old and they told me all he does is sitting at the piano and playing Beethoven. Smelling good food certainly trumps listening to Beethoven all your waking hours. But for those who neither master Beethoven nor the gourmet cooking the question is: how to grow old graciously? Sitting at internet? Rather prosaic but an option. Tatjana

Yes Margaret, you are right. Zafrig and "einpren" are one and the same. Zafrig is a Croatian word (I hear also Slovenian) and it comes from frigati which means to roast, or to fry. Ainpren (in all its spelling variants ) is a corrupted German word and not to be found in the Croatian dictionary. There is an abundance of German words, just used, not accepted to official Croatian language. The misconception is that the "Donauschwaben" introduced them. But that German minority did not usually intermingle with Croats. They had their own communities and throughout the centuries of their life in Croatia maintained their own language and customs. However many Germanspeaking individuals settled in Croatia and those as they did not arrive in groups "melted" in our Croatian melting pot, though nobody called it this way. It was called "assimilated". More simply- they just became Croats. It was not customary to change family names and you could find many Croats with "foreign" surnames. Also people from Croatia travelled to other places as f.i. Austria to hone their trade skills or learn a profession. Until 1918 f.i. Zagreb University had no medical school and our physicians studied mostly in Vienna or Graz. In spite of all the Ellis Island manifests, Croatia was never considered part of Austria or the Austrians thought that Croats are Austrians and viceversa. So our students went to Austria. All this explains a large number of German words (and dishes) being adopted in Croatia. Now about zganci and polenta. While the ingredients are the same, the dish as served is not. Polenta- eaten in coastal areas and Gorski Kotar- is served in one large round piece. Zganci- eaten in Zagreb region and the plains- are ripped to dumplinglike clumps before brought to table. Looking through my Hungarian dictionary I found many and many words we share. I do not know who used them first, but then we shared the same country for almost a thousand years. Fortunately we also share quite a few delicious dishes. Tatjana

I've been trying for two days to think of what Grandma called roux. It's ' umprig. ' When you make potato - rice soup, first you start with the browned flour, the umprig. Ashley P.S. I could wish the list would stop the torture of all those mouthwatering tastes posted to the mailing list. My mouth salivates and there's not even a smell in the real time. Less food! please. P.P.S. Mom, who is 90 this year, made zeludac Easter Saturday, with her home helper doing the lifting. Good for Mom altogether, and her Mom would have been proud of the excellent taste. ----- Original Message ----- From: Jerome Buza To: [email protected] Sent: Friday, April 01, 2005 10:29 PM Subject: Re: [CROATIA-L] Croatian recipe links Hi Bill, Welcome back to Arizona. I look forward to meeting with you and your wife and hearing about your trip. Today was the first time I heard the word "zafrig" and I started looking thru my cookbooks as my mom and grandmother called it Aimprem, Eimprem or Einbrenne. I have a cookbook St. Anthony's Croatian Church in LA and found the "zafrig" sauce in there.

All this talk of food is making me hungry. When do we eat all this food. lol Joy ----- Original Message ----- From: "ashley tiwara" <[email protected]> To: <[email protected]> Sent: Friday, April 01, 2005 10:21 PM Subject: [CROATIA-L] umprig > I've been trying for two days to think of what Grandma called roux. It's > ' umprig. ' When you make potato - rice soup, first you start with the > browned flour, the umprig. > > Ashley > P.S. I could wish the list would stop the torture of all those > mouthwatering tastes posted to the mailing list. My mouth salivates and > there's not even a smell in the real time. Less food! please. > > P.P.S. Mom, who is 90 this year, made zeludac Easter Saturday, with her > home helper doing the lifting. Good for Mom altogether, and her Mom would > have been proud of the excellent taste. > ----- Original Message ----- > From: Jerome Buza > To: [email protected] > Sent: Friday, April 01, 2005 10:29 PM > Subject: Re: [CROATIA-L] Croatian recipe links > > > Hi Bill, Welcome back to Arizona. I look forward to meeting with you and > your wife and hearing about your trip. Today was the first time I heard > the > word "zafrig" and I started looking thru my cookbooks as my mom and > grandmother called it Aimprem, Eimprem or Einbrenne. I have a cookbook > St. > Anthony's Croatian Church in LA and found the "zafrig" sauce in there. >

Hi Bill, Welcome back to Arizona. I look forward to meeting with you and your wife and hearing about your trip. Today was the first time I heard the word "zafrig" and I started looking thru my cookbooks as my mom and grandmother called it Aimprem, Eimprem or Einbrenne. I have a cookbook St. Anthony's Croatian Church in LA and found the "zafrig" sauce in there. It isn't in my Croatian/English dictionary or any of my other cookbooks to include the one written in Croatian. I was about to give up and found it. My grandmother made a soup that she called Eimprem Soup and I didn't like it as a child. So, I don't know if that is what your mother in law made. That club sounds wonderful. We have a good friend whose family lives in Australia. They moved there when Marion retired from the Army, but I think their boys wanted to be in the USA and they now live in CO. Vanda is from around Istria. Margaret ----- Original Message ----- From: "William F Kane" <[email protected]> To: <[email protected]> Sent: Friday, April 01, 2005 5:59 PM Subject: Re: [CROATIA-L] Croatian recipe links > My mother in law and all her sisters called it zafrig and they made a > delicouse soup which was made from the zafrig sauce. > We just returned from a one month trip to Australia so we missed the > Easter food talk. > While there Mary Laurie took us to a Croatian Club. A huge building with > a large room that contained a bar, room for a large gathering and a > casino with slot machines etc. Beyond this room was a cafeteria with > seating for about 100. We had lunch here and they served some excellent > Croatian food. I wondered how the community could support this large a > facility and asked how many members belonged. I was told a little over > 3,500 member belonged to this club and there were four or five more in > the Sydney area. Wish we could get this kind of support here. > Bill Kane > > > > -- > No virus found in this incoming message. > Checked by AVG Anti-Virus. > Version: 7.0.308 / Virus Database: 266.9.1 - Release Date: 4/1/2005 > >

Ah? Ah, more detail please, Patty? I occasionally get up to Mpls and St. P and I'd love to try out a Croatian restaurant there. If you have the name or the name and address, I can do a map off MapQuest for the next time. Thanks for the idea, Ashley ----- Original Message ----- From: Reuter, Patty To: [email protected] Sent: Friday, April 01, 2005 8:32 AM Subject: RE: [CROATIA-L] Lamb Roast In the "Cities", in South St. Paul, there is a VFW affectionately called the "Cro". It is the only place I know that still serves Croatian food in the Twin Cities area. -----Original Message----- From: Robert Jerin [mailto:[email protected]] Sent: Thursday, March 31, 2005 8:32 PM To: [email protected] Subject: Re: [CROATIA-L] Lamb Roast Don, Talk about people knowing how to live! When we lived in "The Cities" 1980-1984 (Minnesotan for The Twin Cities aka Minneapolis St Paul) we enjoyed driving or taking the train to Dulut (no h !) there was a small "Yugoslav" restaurant in Dulut, can not recall the name. Just wondered if it is still there. I was amazed at the connection that Dulut and Cleveland, Cleveland Cliffs and other ore shipping etc.. Robert Donald Marinkovich <[email protected]> wrote: I ran, TO THE STORE, Paul Bizals finer meats and klobase, in Chisholm of course. The sarma was always covered with kraut in our house. I remember a woman asking for fifteen cents soup bone. I was told that Coldagelli bought Postudensheks recepe, he could even have been related. I read somewhere that there is no such thing as a melting pot. We have it here. A friend told me that his kids are three forths bohunk and they have a Finnlander name. His mother and his wife were both Slovenian and his father was Finn, he was the model for the iron man statue, and he was the president of our local union when I worked there. ----- Original Message ----- From: "Reuter, Patty" To: Sent: Thursday, March 31, 2005 10:42 AM Subject: RE: [CROATIA-L] Lamb Roast > Don, > > What is the name of the store that you ran? Was it in Chisholm? My > granparents always got their sausage from Coldageliis. We would have it > every time we came up from the cities. We have a Sarma recipie from the > Perpich's that says we should cover the sarma in sour kraut and then bake > it. Has anyone tried that? > > -----Original Message----- > From: Donald Marinkovich [mailto:[email protected]] > Sent: Thursday, March 31, 2005 10:25 AM > To: [email protected] > Subject: Re: [CROATIA-L] Lamb Roast > > > In the days, before home refridgerators, it was my job to run to the > store. > When Ma made sarmas that ment 1/3 gd beef, 1/3 gd pork, 1/3 gd ham. > Kisele > glavice came from the barrel in the basement. Eventually I made my own > sour > kraut. and I would include a few heads for sarmas but for my use a crock > was big enough. Once I tasted sarmas wraped in leaves from a frozen head > I > decided that souring heads was no longer worth the bother. I have a son > living in Denver. When he comes to the iron range he has to get enough > blood sausage (krvavice)for him and a buddy with an Italian last name but > had a Slovenian mother. There are still a few places where they still > have > good Slovenian Polish sausage. On the range every thing geets mixed up. > One > of the better places to get Polish sausage was at Coldagelilis in Eveleth. > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Jerome Buza" > To: > Sent: Thursday, March 31, 2005 9:58 AM > Subject: Re: [CROATIA-L] Lamb Roast > > >> Thanks Robert, I will read that page and enjoy it, I am sure. My family >> always made the Sarma with sauerkraut, no tomatoes, and that is the way I >> love it. Of course, there was an Eimprem, too. While living in Turkey, >> I >> ate their Sarma and it was different,but we grew to love it. Mom just >> boiled the leaves in vinegar water and when I was young, the produce man >> at the local A & P store gave my mom the outer leaves. Now, they don't >> have them available. So, growing the cabbages in our garden at our >> mountain cabin in AZ has become our way of having the larger leaves of >> cabbage to use. >> Margaret >> ----- Original Message ----- >> From: "Robert Jerin" >> To: >> Sent: Thursday, March 31, 2005 5:42 AM >> Subject: Re: [CROATIA-L] Lamb Roast >> >> >>> Ahh.... just had some REAL Croatian Sarma at Marie's Restaurant on St >>> Clair in Cleveland. The owners are the family Sabalic from Ljubuski, >>> Hercegovina. REAL sarma must always be made using "soured leaves", >>> which >>> we can purchase at Zagreb Meats on St Clair. If you can not purchase >>> "soured cabbage" then par boiling the leaves in vinegar water may work. >>> For many years I did not like sarma, then I discovered that many (most >>> immigrants I know here in Cleveland) do not add tomatoes, and that is >>> what I did not like! Most here will make a rue and then add paprika and >>> a bit of water to make a delicous sauce to pour over the sarma and >>> mashed >>> potatoes or dumplings. >>> >>> My experience with the (too) many Croatian functions that I attend is >>> that if there are many immigrants the food is authentic and if the >>> majority are American born the food has some resemblance to the >>> authentic >>> stuff but does not come close. >>> >>> Here is a recipe that I have found to my taste from the Embassy web >>> page. >>> >>> http://www.croatiaemb.org/basic_facts/christmas97.htm >>> >>> Robert >>> >>> Karen Heiser wrote: >>> Dear List - I think the "western expansion" did in a lot of our families >>> and >>> traditions. Traveling 30 miles for the family reunion is a lot easier >>> and >>> cheaper than travelling 2500 miles. And then there is the marriage >>> thing...not many of us were able to marry within our ethnicity, so then >>> you >>> have another whole set of traditions to work with. >>> But if you don't stop talking about lamb and sarma, the drooling is >>> going >>> to >>> ruin my keyboard! >>> Karen Heiser >>> Weed, Siskiyou, CA >>> ----- Original Message ----- >>> From: "Jerome Buza" >>> To: >>> Sent: Wednesday, March 30, 2005 9:58 PM >>> Subject: Re: [CROATIA-L] Lamb Roast >>> >>> >>>> Another reason for the demise of many of the family customs is the way >>>> we >>>> travel around and move far away. We try to keep up our family customs >>> even >>>> though we are in AZ and most of the family is in MI or IL. However, >>>> many >>> of >>>> my aunts and uncles married people that were not that interested and >>>> now >>> the >>>> kids aren't either. My generation knows that my mom cooked like Grandma >>> and >>>> that I cook like mom and are asking me for recipes. However, many >>>> didn't >>>> have the traditions followed all their lives like I did with my mother >>>> and >>>> my husband did with his part of the Polish family. Our own daughter has >>>> been living in TX for 20 of her 21 years of married life and doesn't >>> follow >>>> our traditions. Her kids are fussy and wouldn't eat the food anyway. >>>> Margaret >>>> ----- Original Message ----- >>>> From: "al toennies" >>>> To: >>>> Sent: Wednesday, March 30, 2005 4:25 PM >>>> Subject: Re: [CROATIA-L] Lamb Roast >>>> >>>> >>>> > Good question Joy! I think a bunch of siblings (like these folks >>>> > were) >>>> > can keep it together naturally but when they start to fade away and >>>> > you >>>> > are left with cousins and a collection of spouses with family ties of >>>> > their own, you need a catalytic agent of some sort - maybe a person >>>> > or >>>> > a >>>> > group of people that pulls or pushes the different family members >>>> > together. They have to be either loved or feared or so much of a pain >>> it >>>> > the butt that everybody gives in to avoid further hassles. I watched >>>> > my >>>> > mother's Swedish family gatherings wither away after my Grandmother >>> died - >>>> > she was a catalyst of a sort and no one replaced her. >>>> > >>>> > Al in Music City >>>> > ----- Original Message ----- >>>> > >>>> > From: "Joy Durrett" >>>> > To: >>>> > Sent: Wednesday, March 30, 2005 8:57 AM >>>> > Subject: Re: [CROATIA-L] Lamb Roast >>>> > >>>> > >>>> >> Why didn't the next generation keep it going? Sounds like a great >>>> >> way >>> to >>>> >> keep the family together. >>>> >> >>>> >> Joy >>>> >> ----- Original Message ----- >>>> >> From: "al toennies" >>>> >> To: >>>> >> Sent: Wednesday, March 30, 2005 2:52 AM >>>> >> Subject: Re: [CROATIA-L] Lamb Roast >>>> >> >>>> >> >>>> >>> My wife's family (all of Croatian descent) used to have a picnic at >>>> >>> a >>>> >>> summer home in Silver Lake, WI (we were all from Chicago) and >>>> >>> roasted >>> a >>>> >>> whole lamb over charcoal in a 55 gallon drum split lengthwise with >>>> >>> a >>>> >>> home-made turning mechanism >>>> >>> doing all the heavy work. I was never a big fan of lamb but I made >>>> >>> an >>>> >>> exception for that - Most of those folks are gone now but the >>>> >>> memories >>>> >>> remain including the best lamb I have ever eaten. >>>> >>> >>>> >>> Al in Music City >>>> >>> >>>> >>> ----- Original Message ----- >>>> >>> From: "Robert Jerin" >>>> >>> To: >>>> >>> Sent: Tuesday, March 29, 2005 12:44 PM >>>> >>> Subject: Re: [CROATIA-L] Lamb Roast >>>> >>> >>>> >>> >>>> >>>> Nick, >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> I must admit that I roasted just a leg and used my Weber with nice >>> hot >>>> >>>> coals on the side. Pleeeze don't tell any real Croatians about my >>>> >>>> "unorthodox" method of using a Weber! Everyone here loves roast >>>> >>>> lamb >>>> >>>> except the wife. So it was enough for the gang. But IMHO the >>>> >>>> secret >>>> >>>> is selecting the right piece, trimming much of the fact and then >>>> >>>> coating the lamb with olive oil, salt (I use Croatian Podravka >>> Vegeta), >>>> >>>> pepper, fresh chopped garlic and rosemary and let it marinate in >>>> >>>> the >>>> >>>> fridge for a day or more... then setting the piece out about 2 >>>> >>>> hours >>>> >>>> before placing on the grill. Oh the other trick is slow roasting, >>>> >>>> no >>>> >>>> flame, just hot coals and not too close to the coals....mmmm.... >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> It has been several years since our Junior tammie group here in >>>> >>>> Cleveland had a picnic... at that time we would take most of Sat >>>> >>>> afternoon to set up 8 whole lambs and 9 pigs on spits, then season >>> them >>>> >>>> and put them in the cooler for Sun am.. after that we would feast >>>> >>>> on >>>> >>>> gulas that I would make along with salad, some wine and slivovitz >>>> >>>> and >>>> >>>> one of the father's, who has since passed away would play his >>> harmonika >>>> >>>> (accordian) and all the guys would dance to his Bosanac songs! >>>> >>>> What >>> a >>>> >>>> sight! Then at 4 AM on Sunday I would meet my friend Mato Vrbic at >>> the >>>> >>>> picnic center to prepare the fire... then a little coffee with >>>> >>>> slivovitz of course... and about 6AM we would consider the coals >>>> >>>> and >>>> >>>> the brick lined floor hot enough to place the first few pieces on >>>> >>>> the >>>> >>>> spit... then about 11:30 ish the first ones would come off to be >>>> >>>> cut >>>> >>>> and served.... that Sunday would finish up at about 10-11 PM >>>> >>>> making >>>> >>>> sure the center was left in better condition than we found it! >>>> >>>> Lots >>>> >>>> of work but I miss those ! >>>> >>>> days... >>>> >>>> as they brought back memories of my Grandparent's PLASAJ (Mirko >>>> >>>> and >>>> >>>> Mary) and my cousin's BAKALE (Ivan and Johanna)farms in PA and the >>>> >>>> picnics we would have there. But they are all gone now so we try >>>> >>>> to >>>> >>>> carry on some semblance of those traditions..... >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> http://www.podravka.com/en/products/index.php?if=new_products.php >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> Here is a photo that may bring back some memories >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> http://www.members.shaw.ca/rogergou/bast4.jpeg >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> Robert >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> nharamija wrote: >>>> >>>> Robert; Let us see your grille and how you set it up. >>>> >>>> Nick >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> ----- Original Message ----- >>>> >>>> From: "Robert Jerin" >>>> >>>> To: >>>> >>>> Sent: Tuesday, March 29, 2005 11:50 AM >>>> >>>> Subject: Re: [CROATIA-L] Test >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> My wife did those things! I was busy roasting.... lamb! >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> Jerome Buza wrote: >>>> >>>> That's right!!! We were all busy baking and cooking and dying eggs >>> and >>>> >>>> cleaning the house for company. >>>> >>>> Margaret >>>> >>>> ----- Original Message ----- >>>> >>>> From: "dave mothkovich" >>>> >>>> To: >>>> >>>> Sent: Tuesday, March 29, 2005 2:32 AM >>>> >>>> Subject: Re: [CROATIA-L] Test >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>>> Everybody got busy, and then the holiday came, it happens. >>>> >>>>> Christmas >>>> >>>>> was >>>> >>>>> different, everyone had time to chat it up. >>>> >>>>> >>>> >>>>> Dave >>>> >>>>> On Tue, 29 Mar 2005 17:45:41 +0800 "John Stefanac" >>>> >>>>> writes: >>>> >>>>>> Is it just quiet on this list or have I somehow been kicked off >>>> >>>>>> it >>>> >>>>>> again >>>> >>>>>> >>>> >>>>>> >>>> >>>>>> >>>> >>>>> >>>> >>>>> >>>> >>>>> >>>> >>>>> -- >>>> >>>>> No virus found in this incoming message. >>>> >>>>> Checked by AVG Anti-Virus. >>>> >>>>> Version: 7.0.308 / Virus Database: 266.8.4 - Release Date: >>>> >>>>> 3/27/2005 >>>> >>>>> >>>> >>>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> Interested in visting Croatia? Click on the link below to find out >>>> >>>> about a >>>> >>>> wonderful tour of Croatia! >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> http://www.kollander-travel.com/ >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> Interested in visting Croatia? Click on the link below to find out >>>> >>>> about a wonderful tour of Croatia! >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> http://www.kollander-travel.com/ >>>> >>>> >>>> >>> >>>> >> >>>> > >>>> > >>>> > >>>> > -- >>>> > No virus found in this incoming message. >>>> > Checked by AVG Anti-Virus. >>>> > Version: 7.0.308 / Virus Database: 266.8.4 - Release Date: 3/27/2005 >>>> > >>>> > >>>> >>>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> Interested in visting Croatia? Click on the link below to find out >>> about >>> a wonderful tour of Croatia! >>> >>> http://www.kollander-travel.com/ >>> >>> >>> >>> -- >>> No virus found in this incoming message. >>> Checked by AVG Anti-Virus. >>> Version: 7.0.308 / Virus Database: 266.8.4 - Release Date: 3/27/2005 >>> >>> >> >> > > > > ________________________________________________________________________ > This email has been scanned for all viruses by the MessageLabs SkyScan > service. For more information on a proactive anti-virus service working > around the clock, around the globe, visit www.messagelabs.com. > ________________________________________________________________________ > > ________________________________________________________________________ > This email has been scanned for all viruses by the MessageLabs SkyScan > service. For more information on a proactive anti-virus service working > around the clock, around the globe, visit www.messagelabs.com. > ________________________________________________________________________ > > Interested in visting Croatia? Click on the link below to find out about a wonderful tour of Croatia! http://www.kollander-travel.com/ ________________________________________________________________________ This email has been scanned for all viruses by the MessageLabs SkyScan service. For more information on a proactive anti-virus service working around the clock, around the globe, visit www.messagelabs.com. ________________________________________________________________________ ________________________________________________________________________ This email has been scanned for all viruses by the MessageLabs SkyScan service. For more information on a proactive anti-virus service working around the clock, around the globe, visit www.messagelabs.com. ________________________________________________________________________

Bill, where do you live now and have you ever had the opportunity to go to Croatia. One of the doctor's at our hospital went and said that it was gorgeous. I am trying to talk my husband in to it..How was australia? Kathy Yedinak Chick William F Kane <[email protected]> wrote:My mother in law and all her sisters called it zafrig and they made a delicouse soup which was made from the zafrig sauce. We just returned from a one month trip to Australia so we missed the Easter food talk. While there Mary Laurie took us to a Croatian Club. A huge building with a large room that contained a bar, room for a large gathering and a casino with slot machines etc. Beyond this room was a cafeteria with seating for about 100. We had lunch here and they served some excellent Croatian food. I wondered how the community could support this large a facility and asked how many members belonged. I was told a little over 3,500 member belonged to this club and there were four or five more in the Sydney area. Wish we could get this kind of support here. Bill Kane

My mother in law and all her sisters called it zafrig and they made a delicouse soup which was made from the zafrig sauce. We just returned from a one month trip to Australia so we missed the Easter food talk. While there Mary Laurie took us to a Croatian Club. A huge building with a large room that contained a bar, room for a large gathering and a casino with slot machines etc. Beyond this room was a cafeteria with seating for about 100. We had lunch here and they served some excellent Croatian food. I wondered how the community could support this large a facility and asked how many members belonged. I was told a little over 3,500 member belonged to this club and there were four or five more in the Sydney area. Wish we could get this kind of support here. Bill Kane

Ah, yes Croatian cooking has been influenced by the Turks, Austria, Hungarians and Italians. It has been said the finest wheat for strudels in the old Habsburg Empire came from... the Slavonia region of Croatia! Of course Croatians enjoy those things the Turks left behind such as burek... but having had Turkish Burek one evening in Ulm Germany I can tell you the Croatians have improved on that Turkish recipe! Even Croatian music has infuences from all those cultures while most Croatian Americans know about tamburitza (which are said to be descended from the lute from the Indian sub-continent) few know about klapa and other types of music found in Croatia. Robert Jerome Buza <[email protected]> wrote: Robert, I just checked out those sites and put some in my Favorites so I can go back to them. I have two of the cookbooks in the sites, the one from the church in Los Angeles and the Best of Croatian Cooking. It is interesting reading them and finding things that my Grandmother made. However, I am finding that most of her cooking leaned more toward the German-Hungarian being her mother in law was DonauSwaben. The Croatian recipes lean more toward the Turkish style like I learned while living in Turkey for two years. Margaret ----- Original Message ----- From: "Robert Jerin" To: Sent: Friday, April 01, 2005 5:00 AM Subject: Re: [CROATIA-L] Croatian recipe links > Margaret, > > Aha, I have never heard that term. Evidently it is a German word... roux > = die Einbrenne in German Of course I know about roux as one of my > favorite dishes to make is Jambalya, which begins with a roux ... takes > the better part of a day. Interesting how words are exchanged amongst > peoples... my Grandmother called her homemade cottage cheese Schmierkase > > But even in the Croatian language there are some borrowed words... > > For instance German for bacon is spek, one Croatian word is spek, ham is > shincken in German and sunka in Croatian, polenta is used by many > Croaitans but is an Italian word but the real Croatian word zgonci (not > certain of the spelling) is in Bosnia they call it pule or pure, this is > great with a veal stew over the top.... mmm... > > Here are some links Croatian recipes > > http://www.croatianmall.com/croatia/food/34_croatian_recipes.htm > > http://www.balkanweb.com/kroacia/recipes.htm > > http://www.gourmed.gr/recipes/croatian/?gid=1&nodeid=13 > > http://www.pitt.edu/~slavic/sli/admin/croatcook.html > > http://www.hvar.hr/Default.aspx?tabid=640 > > http://fooddownunder.com/cgi-bin/search.cgi?q=croatian > > http://www.recipesource.com/ethnic/europe/croatian/ > > http://www.croatianmall.com/croatia/food/Index.htm > > Dobar tek! > > Robert > > > > > Jerome Buza wrote: > Hi Robert, Eimprem or Einbren is what my grandmother called "roux". > Margaret > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Robert Jerin" > To: > Sent: Thursday, March 31, 2005 7:24 PM > Subject: Re: [CROATIA-L] Lamb Roast > > >> Hi Margaret, >> >> Sounds good! >> >> What is Eimprem? >> >> Robert >> >> Jerome Buza wrote: >> Thanks Robert, I will read that page and enjoy it, I am sure. My family >> always made the Sarma with sauerkraut, no tomatoes, and that is the way I >> love it. Of course, there was an Eimprem, too. While living in Turkey, I >> ate their Sarma and it was different,but we grew to love it. Mom just >> boiled the leaves in vinegar water and when I was young, the produce man >> at >> the local A & P store gave my mom the outer leaves. Now, they don't have >> them available. So, growing the cabbages in our garden at our mountain >> cabin in AZ has become our way of having the larger leaves of cabbage to >> use. >> Margaret >> ----- Original Message ----- >> From: "Robert Jerin" >> To: >> Sent: Thursday, March 31, 2005 5:42 AM >> Subject: Re: [CROATIA-L] Lamb Roast >> >> >>> Ahh.... just had some REAL Croatian Sarma at Marie's Restaurant on St >>> Clair in Cleveland. The owners are the family Sabalic from Ljubuski, >>> Hercegovina. REAL sarma must always be made using "soured leaves", which >>> we can purchase at Zagreb Meats on St Clair. If you can not purchase >>> "soured cabbage" then par boiling the leaves in vinegar water may work. >>> For many years I did not like sarma, then I discovered that many (most >>> immigrants I know here in Cleveland) do not add tomatoes, and that is >>> what >>> I did not like! Most here will make a rue and then add paprika and a bit >>> of water to make a delicous sauce to pour over the sarma and mashed >>> potatoes or dumplings. >>> >>> My experience with the (too) many Croatian functions that I attend is >>> that >>> if there are many immigrants the food is authentic and if the majority >>> are >>> American born the food has some resemblance to the authentic stuff but >>> does not come close. >>> >>> Here is a recipe that I have found to my taste from the Embassy web >>> page. >>> >>> http://www.croatiaemb.org/basic_facts/christmas97.htm >>> >>> Robert >>> >>> Karen Heiser wrote: >>> Dear List - I think the "western expansion" did in a lot of our families >>> and >>> traditions. Traveling 30 miles for the family reunion is a lot easier >>> and >>> cheaper than travelling 2500 miles. And then there is the marriage >>> thing...not many of us were able to marry within our ethnicity, so then >>> you >>> have another whole set of traditions to work with. >>> But if you don't stop talking about lamb and sarma, the drooling is >>> going >>> to >>> ruin my keyboard! >>> Karen Heiser >>> Weed, Siskiyou, CA >>> ----- Original Message ----- >>> From: "Jerome Buza" >>> To: >>> Sent: Wednesday, March 30, 2005 9:58 PM >>> Subject: Re: [CROATIA-L] Lamb Roast >>> >>> >>>> Another reason for the demise of many of the family customs is the way >>>> we >>>> travel around and move far away. We try to keep up our family customs >>> even >>>> though we are in AZ and most of the family is in MI or IL. However, >>>> many >>> of >>>> my aunts and uncles married people that were not that interested and >>>> now >>> the >>>> kids aren't either. My generation knows that my mom cooked like Grandma >>> and >>>> that I cook like mom and are asking me for recipes. However, many >>>> didn't >>>> have the traditions followed all their lives like I did with my mother >>>> and >>>> my husband did with his part of the Polish family. Our own daughter has >>>> been living in TX for 20 of her 21 years of married life and doesn't >>> follow >>>> our traditions. Her kids are fussy and wouldn't eat the food anyway. >>>> Margaret >>>> ----- Original Message ----- >>>> From: "al toennies" >>>> To: >>>> Sent: Wednesday, March 30, 2005 4:25 PM >>>> Subject: Re: [CROATIA-L] Lamb Roast >>>> >>>> >>>> > Good question Joy! I think a bunch of siblings (like these folks >>>> > were) >>>> > can keep it together naturally but when they start to fade away and >>>> > you >>>> > are left with cousins and a collection of spouses with family ties of >>>> > their own, you need a catalytic agent of some sort - maybe a person >>>> > or >>>> > a >>>> > group of people that pulls or pushes the different family members >>>> > together. They have to be either loved or feared or so much of a pain >>> it >>>> > the butt that everybody gives in to avoid further hassles. I watched >>>> > my >>>> > mother's Swedish family gatherings wither away after my Grandmother >>> died - >>>> > she was a catalyst of a sort and no one replaced her. >>>> > >>>> > Al in Music City >>>> > ----- Original Message ----- >>>> > >>>> > From: "Joy Durrett" >>>> > To: >>>> > Sent: Wednesday, March 30, 2005 8:57 AM >>>> > Subject: Re: [CROATIA-L] Lamb Roast >>>> > >>>> > >>>> >> Why didn't the next generation keep it going? Sounds like a great >>>> >> way >>> to >>>> >> keep the family together. >>>> >> >>>> >> Joy >>>> >> ----- Original Message ----- >>>> >> From: "al toennies" >>>> >> To: >>>> >> Sent: Wednesday, March 30, 2005 2:52 AM >>>> >> Subject: Re: [CROATIA-L] Lamb Roast >>>> >> >>>> >> >>>> >>> My wife's family (all of Croatian descent) used to have a picnic at >>>> >>> a >>>> >>> summer home in Silver Lake, WI (we were all from Chicago) and >>>> >>> roasted >>> a >>>> >>> whole lamb over charcoal in a 55 gallon drum split lengthwise with >>>> >>> a >>>> >>> home-made turning mechanism >>>> >>> doing all the heavy work. I was never a big fan of lamb but I made >>>> >>> an >>>> >>> exception for that - Most of those folks are gone now but the >>>> >>> memories >>>> >>> remain including the best lamb I have ever eaten. >>>> >>> >>>> >>> Al in Music City >>>> >>> >>>> >>> ----- Original Message ----- >>>> >>> From: "Robert Jerin" >>>> >>> To: >>>> >>> Sent: Tuesday, March 29, 2005 12:44 PM >>>> >>> Subject: Re: [CROATIA-L] Lamb Roast >>>> >>> >>>> >>> >>>> >>>> Nick, >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> I must admit that I roasted just a leg and used my Weber with nice >>> hot >>>> >>>> coals on the side. Pleeeze don't tell any real Croatians about my >>>> >>>> "unorthodox" method of using a Weber! Everyone here loves roast >>>> >>>> lamb >>>> >>>> except the wife. So it was enough for the gang. But IMHO the >>>> >>>> secret >>>> >>>> is selecting the right piece, trimming much of the fact and then >>>> >>>> coating the lamb with olive oil, salt (I use Croatian Podravka >>> Vegeta), >>>> >>>> pepper, fresh chopped garlic and rosemary and let it marinate in >>>> >>>> the >>>> >>>> fridge for a day or more... then setting the piece out about 2 >>>> >>>> hours >>>> >>>> before placing on the grill. Oh the other trick is slow roasting, >>>> >>>> no >>>> >>>> flame, just hot coals and not too close to the coals....mmmm.... >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> It has been several years since our Junior tammie group here in >>>> >>>> Cleveland had a picnic... at that time we would take most of Sat >>>> >>>> afternoon to set up 8 whole lambs and 9 pigs on spits, then season >>> them >>>> >>>> and put them in the cooler for Sun am.. after that we would feast >>>> >>>> on >>>> >>>> gulas that I would make along with salad, some wine and slivovitz >>>> >>>> and >>>> >>>> one of the father's, who has since passed away would play his >>> harmonika >>>> >>>> (accordian) and all the guys would dance to his Bosanac songs! >>>> >>>> What >>> a >>>> >>>> sight! Then at 4 AM on Sunday I would meet my friend Mato Vrbic at >>> the >>>> >>>> picnic center to prepare the fire... then a little coffee with >>>> >>>> slivovitz of course... and about 6AM we would consider the coals >>>> >>>> and >>>> >>>> the brick lined floor hot enough to place the first few pieces on >>>> >>>> the >>>> >>>> spit... then about 11:30 ish the first ones would come off to be >>>> >>>> cut >>>> >>>> and served.... that Sunday would finish up at about 10-11 PM >>>> >>>> making >>>> >>>> sure the center was left in better condition than we found it! >>>> >>>> Lots >>>> >>>> of work but I miss those ! >>>> >>>> days... >>>> >>>> as they brought back memories of my Grandparent's PLASAJ (Mirko >>>> >>>> and >>>> >>>> Mary) and my cousin's BAKALE (Ivan and Johanna)farms in PA and the >>>> >>>> picnics we would have there. But they are all gone now so we try >>>> >>>> to >>>> >>>> carry on some semblance of those traditions..... >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> http://www.podravka.com/en/products/index.php?if=new_products.php >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> Here is a photo that may bring back some memories >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> http://www.members.shaw.ca/rogergou/bast4.jpeg >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> Robert >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> nharamija wrote: >>>> >>>> Robert; Let us see your grille and how you set it up. >>>> >>>> Nick >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> ----- Original Message ----- >>>> >>>> From: "Robert Jerin" >>>> >>>> To: >>>> >>>> Sent: Tuesday, March 29, 2005 11:50 AM >>>> >>>> Subject: Re: [CROATIA-L] Test >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> My wife did those things! I was busy roasting.... lamb! >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> Jerome Buza wrote: >>>> >>>> That's right!!! We were all busy baking and cooking and dying eggs >>> and >>>> >>>> cleaning the house for company. >>>> >>>> Margaret >>>> >>>> ----- Original Message ----- >>>> >>>> From: "dave mothkovich" >>>> >>>> To: >>>> >>>> Sent: Tuesday, March 29, 2005 2:32 AM >>>> >>>> Subject: Re: [CROATIA-L] Test >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>>> Everybody got busy, and then the holiday came, it happens. >>>> >>>>> Christmas >>>> >>>>> was >>>> >>>>> different, everyone had time to chat it up. >>>> >>>>> >>>> >>>>> Dave >>>> >>>>> On Tue, 29 Mar 2005 17:45:41 +0800 "John Stefanac" >>>> >>>>> writes: >>>> >>>>>> Is it just quiet on this list or have I somehow been kicked off >>>> >>>>>> it >>>> >>>>>> again >>>> >>>>>> >>>> >>>>>> >>>> >>>>>> >>>> >>>>> >>>> >>>>> >>>> >>>>> >>>> >>>>> -- >>>> >>>>> No virus found in this incoming message. >>>> >>>>> Checked by AVG Anti-Virus. >>>> >>>>> Version: 7.0.308 / Virus Database: 266.8.4 - Release Date: >>>> >>>>> 3/27/2005 >>>> >>>>> >>>> >>>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> Interested in visting Croatia? Click on the link below to find out >>>> >>>> about a >>>> >>>> wonderful tour of Croatia! >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> http://www.kollander-travel.com/ >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> Interested in visting Croatia? Click on the link below to find out >>>> >>>> about a wonderful tour of Croatia! >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> http://www.kollander-travel.com/ >>>> >>>> >>>> >>> >>>> >> >>>> > >>>> > >>>> > >>>> > -- >>>> > No virus found in this incoming message. >>>> > Checked by AVG Anti-Virus. >>>> > Version: 7.0.308 / Virus Database: 266.8.4 - Release Date: 3/27/2005 >>>> > >>>> > >>>> >>>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> Interested in visting Croatia? Click on the link below to find out about >>> a wonderful tour of Croatia! >>> >>> http://www.kollander-travel.com/ >>> >>> >>> >>> -- >>> No virus found in this incoming message. >>> Checked by AVG Anti-Virus. >>> Version: 7.0.308 / Virus Database: 266.8.4 - Release Date: 3/27/2005 >>> >>> >> >> >> >> Interested in visting Croatia? Click on the link below to find out about >> a wonderful tour of Croatia! >> >> http://www.kollander-travel.com/ >> >> >> >> -- >> No virus found in this incoming message. >> Checked by AVG Anti-Virus. >> Version: 7.0.308 / Virus Database: 266.8.4 - Release Date: 3/27/2005 >> >> > > > > Interested in visting Croatia? Click on the link below to find out about > a wonderful tour of Croatia! > > http://www.kollander-travel.com/ > > > > -- > No virus found in this incoming message. > Checked by AVG Anti-Virus. > Version: 7.0.308 / Virus Database: 266.9.1 - Release Date: 4/1/2005 > > Interested in visting Croatia? Click on the link below to find out about a wonderful tour of Croatia! http://www.kollander-travel.com/

Hmmm I thought cookbooks were romance novels :) Robert Jerome Buza <[email protected]> wrote: That is what my mom always said, that the Polish used tomatoes in their Sarma. Of course, when you read many cookbooks of different cultures, you see Stuffed Cabbage with tomatoes. I have over 400 cookbooks and many cooking magazines. I prefer to read cookbooks over romance novels. Margaret ----- Original Message ----- From: "Donald Marinkovich" To: Sent: Friday, April 01, 2005 7:43 AM Subject: Re: [CROATIA-L] Croatian recipe links > In our neighborhood if sarmas had any kind of tomatoe in them we thought > they were Polish or Galician. I think they were called holupka or > helupchi. > Don > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Robert Jerin" > To: > Sent: Friday, April 01, 2005 6:00 AM > Subject: Re: [CROATIA-L] Croatian recipe links > > >> Margaret, >> >> Aha, I have never heard that term. Evidently it is a German word... roux >> = die Einbrenne in German Of course I know about roux as one of my >> favorite dishes to make is Jambalya, which begins with a roux ... takes >> the better part of a day. Interesting how words are exchanged amongst >> peoples... my Grandmother called her homemade cottage cheese Schmierkase >> >> But even in the Croatian language there are some borrowed words... >> >> For instance German for bacon is spek, one Croatian word is spek, ham is >> shincken in German and sunka in Croatian, polenta is used by many >> Croaitans but is an Italian word but the real Croatian word zgonci (not >> certain of the spelling) is in Bosnia they call it pule or pure, this is >> great with a veal stew over the top.... mmm... >> >> Here are some links Croatian recipes >> >> http://www.croatianmall.com/croatia/food/34_croatian_recipes.htm >> >> http://www.balkanweb.com/kroacia/recipes.htm >> >> http://www.gourmed.gr/recipes/croatian/?gid=1&nodeid=13 >> >> http://www.pitt.edu/~slavic/sli/admin/croatcook.html >> >> http://www.hvar.hr/Default.aspx?tabid=640 >> >> http://fooddownunder.com/cgi-bin/search.cgi?q=croatian >> >> http://www.recipesource.com/ethnic/europe/croatian/ >> >> http://www.croatianmall.com/croatia/food/Index.htm >> >> Dobar tek! >> >> Robert >> >> >> >> >> Jerome Buza wrote: >> Hi Robert, Eimprem or Einbren is what my grandmother called "roux". >> Margaret >> ----- Original Message ----- >> From: "Robert Jerin" >> To: >> Sent: Thursday, March 31, 2005 7:24 PM >> Subject: Re: [CROATIA-L] Lamb Roast >> >> >>> Hi Margaret, >>> >>> Sounds good! >>> >>> What is Eimprem? >>> >>> Robert >>> >>> Jerome Buza wrote: >>> Thanks Robert, I will read that page and enjoy it, I am sure. My family >>> always made the Sarma with sauerkraut, no tomatoes, and that is the way >>> I >>> love it. Of course, there was an Eimprem, too. While living in Turkey, I >>> ate their Sarma and it was different,but we grew to love it. Mom just >>> boiled the leaves in vinegar water and when I was young, the produce man >>> at >>> the local A & P store gave my mom the outer leaves. Now, they don't have >>> them available. So, growing the cabbages in our garden at our mountain >>> cabin in AZ has become our way of having the larger leaves of cabbage to >>> use. >>> Margaret >>> ----- Original Message ----- >>> From: "Robert Jerin" >>> To: >>> Sent: Thursday, March 31, 2005 5:42 AM >>> Subject: Re: [CROATIA-L] Lamb Roast >>> >>> >>>> Ahh.... just had some REAL Croatian Sarma at Marie's Restaurant on St >>>> Clair in Cleveland. The owners are the family Sabalic from Ljubuski, >>>> Hercegovina. REAL sarma must always be made using "soured leaves", >>>> which >>>> we can purchase at Zagreb Meats on St Clair. If you can not purchase >>>> "soured cabbage" then par boiling the leaves in vinegar water may work. >>>> For many years I did not like sarma, then I discovered that many (most >>>> immigrants I know here in Cleveland) do not add tomatoes, and that is >>>> what >>>> I did not like! Most here will make a rue and then add paprika and a >>>> bit >>>> of water to make a delicous sauce to pour over the sarma and mashed >>>> potatoes or dumplings. >>>> >>>> My experience with the (too) many Croatian functions that I attend is >>>> that >>>> if there are many immigrants the food is authentic and if the majority >>>> are >>>> American born the food has some resemblance to the authentic stuff but >>>> does not come close. >>>> >>>> Here is a recipe that I have found to my taste from the Embassy web >>>> page. >>>> >>>> http://www.croatiaemb.org/basic_facts/christmas97.htm >>>> >>>> Robert >>>> >>>> Karen Heiser wrote: >>>> Dear List - I think the "western expansion" did in a lot of our >>>> families >>>> and >>>> traditions. Traveling 30 miles for the family reunion is a lot easier >>>> and >>>> cheaper than travelling 2500 miles. And then there is the marriage >>>> thing...not many of us were able to marry within our ethnicity, so then >>>> you >>>> have another whole set of traditions to work with. >>>> But if you don't stop talking about lamb and sarma, the drooling is >>>> going >>>> to >>>> ruin my keyboard! >>>> Karen Heiser >>>> Weed, Siskiyou, CA >>>> ----- Original Message ----- >>>> From: "Jerome Buza" >>>> To: >>>> Sent: Wednesday, March 30, 2005 9:58 PM >>>> Subject: Re: [CROATIA-L] Lamb Roast >>>> >>>> >>>>> Another reason for the demise of many of the family customs is the way >>>>> we >>>>> travel around and move far away. We try to keep up our family customs >>>> even >>>>> though we are in AZ and most of the family is in MI or IL. However, >>>>> many >>>> of >>>>> my aunts and uncles married people that were not that interested and >>>>> now >>>> the >>>>> kids aren't either. My generation knows that my mom cooked like >>>>> Grandma >>>> and >>>>> that I cook like mom and are asking me for recipes. However, many >>>>> didn't >>>>> have the traditions followed all their lives like I did with my mother >>>>> and >>>>> my husband did with his part of the Polish family. Our own daughter >>>>> has >>>>> been living in TX for 20 of her 21 years of married life and doesn't >>>> follow >>>>> our traditions. Her kids are fussy and wouldn't eat the food anyway. >>>>> Margaret >>>>> ----- Original Message ----- >>>>> From: "al toennies" >>>>> To: >>>>> Sent: Wednesday, March 30, 2005 4:25 PM >>>>> Subject: Re: [CROATIA-L] Lamb Roast >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> > Good question Joy! I think a bunch of siblings (like these folks >>>>> > were) >>>>> > can keep it together naturally but when they start to fade away and >>>>> > you >>>>> > are left with cousins and a collection of spouses with family ties >>>>> > of >>>>> > their own, you need a catalytic agent of some sort - maybe a person >>>>> > or >>>>> > a >>>>> > group of people that pulls or pushes the different family members >>>>> > together. They have to be either loved or feared or so much of a >>>>> > pain >>>> it >>>>> > the butt that everybody gives in to avoid further hassles. I watched >>>>> > my >>>>> > mother's Swedish family gatherings wither away after my Grandmother >>>> died - >>>>> > she was a catalyst of a sort and no one replaced her. >>>>> > >>>>> > Al in Music City >>>>> > ----- Original Message ----- >>>>> > >>>>> > From: "Joy Durrett" >>>>> > To: >>>>> > Sent: Wednesday, March 30, 2005 8:57 AM >>>>> > Subject: Re: [CROATIA-L] Lamb Roast >>>>> > >>>>> > >>>>> >> Why didn't the next generation keep it going? Sounds like a great >>>>> >> way >>>> to >>>>> >> keep the family together. >>>>> >> >>>>> >> Joy >>>>> >> ----- Original Message ----- >>>>> >> From: "al toennies" >>>>> >> To: >>>>> >> Sent: Wednesday, March 30, 2005 2:52 AM >>>>> >> Subject: Re: [CROATIA-L] Lamb Roast >>>>> >> >>>>> >> >>>>> >>> My wife's family (all of Croatian descent) used to have a picnic >>>>> >>> at >>>>> >>> a >>>>> >>> summer home in Silver Lake, WI (we were all from Chicago) and >>>>> >>> roasted >>>> a >>>>> >>> whole lamb over charcoal in a 55 gallon drum split lengthwise with >>>>> >>> a >>>>> >>> home-made turning mechanism >>>>> >>> doing all the heavy work. I was never a big fan of lamb but I made >>>>> >>> an >>>>> >>> exception for that - Most of those folks are gone now but the >>>>> >>> memories >>>>> >>> remain including the best lamb I have ever eaten. >>>>> >>> >>>>> >>> Al in Music City >>>>> >>> >>>>> >>> ----- Original Message ----- >>>>> >>> From: "Robert Jerin" >>>>> >>> To: >>>>> >>> Sent: Tuesday, March 29, 2005 12:44 PM >>>>> >>> Subject: Re: [CROATIA-L] Lamb Roast >>>>> >>> >>>>> >>> >>>>> >>>> Nick, >>>>> >>>> >>>>> >>>> I must admit that I roasted just a leg and used my Weber with >>>>> >>>> nice >>>> hot >>>>> >>>> coals on the side. Pleeeze don't tell any real Croatians about my >>>>> >>>> "unorthodox" method of using a Weber! Everyone here loves roast >>>>> >>>> lamb >>>>> >>>> except the wife. So it was enough for the gang. But IMHO the >>>>> >>>> secret >>>>> >>>> is selecting the right piece, trimming much of the fact and then >>>>> >>>> coating the lamb with olive oil, salt (I use Croatian Podravka >>>> Vegeta), >>>>> >>>> pepper, fresh chopped garlic and rosemary and let it marinate in >>>>> >>>> the >>>>> >>>> fridge for a day or more... then setting the piece out about 2 >>>>> >>>> hours >>>>> >>>> before placing on the grill. Oh the other trick is slow roasting, >>>>> >>>> no >>>>> >>>> flame, just hot coals and not too close to the coals....mmmm.... >>>>> >>>> >>>>> >>>> It has been several years since our Junior tammie group here in >>>>> >>>> Cleveland had a picnic... at that time we would take most of Sat >>>>> >>>> afternoon to set up 8 whole lambs and 9 pigs on spits, then >>>>> >>>> season >>>> them >>>>> >>>> and put them in the cooler for Sun am.. after that we would feast >>>>> >>>> on >>>>> >>>> gulas that I would make along with salad, some wine and slivovitz >>>>> >>>> and >>>>> >>>> one of the father's, who has since passed away would play his >>>> harmonika >>>>> >>>> (accordian) and all the guys would dance to his Bosanac songs! >>>>> >>>> What >>>> a >>>>> >>>> sight! Then at 4 AM on Sunday I would meet my friend Mato Vrbic >>>>> >>>> at >>>> the >>>>> >>>> picnic center to prepare the fire... then a little coffee with >>>>> >>>> slivovitz of course... and about 6AM we would consider the coals >>>>> >>>> and >>>>> >>>> the brick lined floor hot enough to place the first few pieces on >>>>> >>>> the >>>>> >>>> spit... then about 11:30 ish the first ones would come off to be >>>>> >>>> cut >>>>> >>>> and served.... that Sunday would finish up at about 10-11 PM >>>>> >>>> making >>>>> >>>> sure the center was left in better condition than we found it! >>>>> >>>> Lots >>>>> >>>> of work but I miss those ! >>>>> >>>> days... >>>>> >>>> as they brought back memories of my Grandparent's PLASAJ (Mirko >>>>> >>>> and >>>>> >>>> Mary) and my cousin's BAKALE (Ivan and Johanna)farms in PA and >>>>> >>>> the >>>>> >>>> picnics we would have there. But they are all gone now so we try >>>>> >>>> to >>>>> >>>> carry on some semblance of those traditions..... >>>>> >>>> >>>>> >>>> http://www.podravka.com/en/products/index.php?if=new_products.php >>>>> >>>> >>>>> >>>> Here is a photo that may bring back some memories >>>>> >>>> >>>>> >>>> http://www.members.shaw.ca/rogergou/bast4.jpeg >>>>> >>>> >>>>> >>>> Robert >>>>> >>>> >>>>> >>>> nharamija wrote: >>>>> >>>> Robert; Let us see your grille and how you set it up. >>>>> >>>> Nick >>>>> >>>> >>>>> >>>> ----- Original Message ----- >>>>> >>>> From: "Robert Jerin" >>>>> >>>> To: >>>>> >>>> Sent: Tuesday, March 29, 2005 11:50 AM >>>>> >>>> Subject: Re: [CROATIA-L] Test >>>>> >>>> >>>>> >>>> >>>>> >>>> My wife did those things! I was busy roasting.... lamb! >>>>> >>>> >>>>> >>>> >>>>> >>>> >>>>> >>>> Jerome Buza wrote: >>>>> >>>> That's right!!! We were all busy baking and cooking and dying >>>>> >>>> eggs >>>> and >>>>> >>>> cleaning the house for company. >>>>> >>>> Margaret >>>>> >>>> ----- Original Message ----- >>>>> >>>> From: "dave mothkovich" >>>>> >>>> To: >>>>> >>>> Sent: Tuesday, March 29, 2005 2:32 AM >>>>> >>>> Subject: Re: [CROATIA-L] Test >>>>> >>>> >>>>> >>>> >>>>> >>>>> Everybody got busy, and then the holiday came, it happens. >>>>> >>>>> Christmas >>>>> >>>>> was >>>>> >>>>> different, everyone had time to chat it up. >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> Dave >>>>> >>>>> On Tue, 29 Mar 2005 17:45:41 +0800 "John Stefanac" >>>>> >>>>> writes: >>>>> >>>>>> Is it just quiet on this list or have I somehow been kicked off >>>>> >>>>>> it >>>>> >>>>>> again >>>>> >>>>>> >>>>> >>>>>> >>>>> >>>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> -- >>>>> >>>>> No virus found in this incoming message. >>>>> >>>>> Checked by AVG Anti-Virus. >>>>> >>>>> Version: 7.0.308 / Virus Database: 266.8.4 - Release Date: >>>>> >>>>> 3/27/2005 >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>> >>>>> >>>> >>>>> >>>> >>>>> >>>> Interested in visting Croatia? Click on the link below to find >>>>> >>>> out >>>>> >>>> about a >>>>> >>>> wonderful tour of Croatia! >>>>> >>>> >>>>> >>>> http://www.kollander-travel.com/ >>>>> >>>> >>>>> >>>> >>>>> >>>> >>>>> >>>> >>>>> >>>> >>>>> >>>> Interested in visting Croatia? Click on the link below to find >>>>> >>>> out >>>>> >>>> about a wonderful tour of Croatia! >>>>> >>>> >>>>> >>>> http://www.kollander-travel.com/ >>>>> >>>> >>>>> >>> >>>>> >> >>>>> > >>>>> > >>>>> > >>>>> > -- >>>>> > No virus found in this incoming message. >>>>> > Checked by AVG Anti-Virus. >>>>> > Version: 7.0.308 / Virus Database: 266.8.4 - Release Date: 3/27/2005 >>>>> > >>>>> > >>>>> >>>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> Interested in visting Croatia? Click on the link below to find out >>>> about >>>> a wonderful tour of Croatia! >>>> >>>> http://www.kollander-travel.com/ >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> -- >>>> No virus found in this incoming message. >>>> Checked by AVG Anti-Virus. >>>> Version: 7.0.308 / Virus Database: 266.8.4 - Release Date: 3/27/2005 >>>> >>>> >>> >>> >>> >>> Interested in visting Croatia? Click on the link below to find out about >>> a wonderful tour of Croatia! >>> >>> http://www.kollander-travel.com/ >>> >>> >>> >>> -- >>> No virus found in this incoming message. >>> Checked by AVG Anti-Virus. >>> Version: 7.0.308 / Virus Database: 266.8.4 - Release Date: 3/27/2005 >>> >>> >> >> >> >> Interested in visting Croatia? Click on the link below to find out about >> a wonderful tour of Croatia! >> >> http://www.kollander-travel.com/ >> >> > > > > > -- > No virus found in this incoming message. > Checked by AVG Anti-Virus. > Version: 7.0.308 / Virus Database: 266.9.1 - Release Date: 4/1/2005 > > Interested in visting Croatia? Click on the link below to find out about a wonderful tour of Croatia! http://www.kollander-travel.com/

smetana is a low fat product; a cross between soured cream and yoghurt Robert nharamija <[email protected]> wrote: Pray tell What Is "Smetana"? Nick ----- Original Message ----- From: "Robert Jerin" To: Sent: Thursday, March 31, 2005 9:24 PM Subject: Re: [CROATIA-L] Lamb Roast Interested in visting Croatia? Click on the link below to find out about a wonderful tour of Croatia! http://www.kollander-travel.com/

I'm pretty sure that my mother called tha zafrik. Don ----- Original Message ----- From: "Jerome Buza" <[email protected]> To: <[email protected]> Sent: Friday, April 01, 2005 9:35 AM Subject: Re: [CROATIA-L] Croatian recipe links > Robert, thanks for those sites. I didn't know what a "roux" was until I > was an adult. My mom and grandma always said "Eimprem" and in many of my > Croatian and Slovenian church cookbooks, it is spelled "Eimprem" or > "Aimprem". It was only in the past few years that I knew it was > "Einbrenne" in German and I lived in Germany for 3 years in the 60's. I > guess I was too busy tending to my 3 little children and didn't pay > attention to the relatives. I did pick up a lot of words then, though. I > do have some Slovenian to English and Croation to English and vice versa > dictionaries that I need to find and use more often. > I knew about "speck" or Spek and shincken and sunka and my dad called > polenta "gonca". in Slovenian which would be like the zgonci that you > mentioned. > God bless, Margaret > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Robert Jerin" <[email protected]> > To: <[email protected]> > Sent: Friday, April 01, 2005 5:00 AM > Subject: Re: [CROATIA-L] Croatian recipe links > > >> Margaret, >> >> Aha, I have never heard that term. Evidently it is a German word... roux >> = die Einbrenne in German Of course I know about roux as one of my >> favorite dishes to make is Jambalya, which begins with a roux ... takes >> the better part of a day. Interesting how words are exchanged amongst >> peoples... my Grandmother called her homemade cottage cheese Schmierkase >> >> But even in the Croatian language there are some borrowed words... >> >> For instance German for bacon is spek, one Croatian word is spek, ham is >> shincken in German and sunka in Croatian, polenta is used by many >> Croaitans but is an Italian word but the real Croatian word zgonci (not >> certain of the spelling) is in Bosnia they call it pule or pure, this is >> great with a veal stew over the top.... mmm... >> >> Here are some links Croatian recipes >> >> http://www.croatianmall.com/croatia/food/34_croatian_recipes.htm >> >> http://www.balkanweb.com/kroacia/recipes.htm >> >> http://www.gourmed.gr/recipes/croatian/?gid=1&nodeid=13 >> >> http://www.pitt.edu/~slavic/sli/admin/croatcook.html >> >> http://www.hvar.hr/Default.aspx?tabid=640 >> >> http://fooddownunder.com/cgi-bin/search.cgi?q=croatian >> >> http://www.recipesource.com/ethnic/europe/croatian/ >> >> http://www.croatianmall.com/croatia/food/Index.htm >> >> Dobar tek! >> >> Robert >> >> >> >> >> Jerome Buza <[email protected]> wrote: >> Hi Robert, Eimprem or Einbren is what my grandmother called "roux". >> Margaret >> ----- Original Message ----- >> From: "Robert Jerin" >> To: >> Sent: Thursday, March 31, 2005 7:24 PM >> Subject: Re: [CROATIA-L] Lamb Roast >> >> >>> Hi Margaret, >>> >>> Sounds good! >>> >>> What is Eimprem? >>> >>> Robert >>> >>> Jerome Buza wrote: >>> Thanks Robert, I will read that page and enjoy it, I am sure. My family >>> always made the Sarma with sauerkraut, no tomatoes, and that is the way >>> I >>> love it. Of course, there was an Eimprem, too. While living in Turkey, I >>> ate their Sarma and it was different,but we grew to love it. Mom just >>> boiled the leaves in vinegar water and when I was young, the produce man >>> at >>> the local A & P store gave my mom the outer leaves. Now, they don't have >>> them available. So, growing the cabbages in our garden at our mountain >>> cabin in AZ has become our way of having the larger leaves of cabbage to >>> use. >>> Margaret >>> ----- Original Message ----- >>> From: "Robert Jerin" >>> To: >>> Sent: Thursday, March 31, 2005 5:42 AM >>> Subject: Re: [CROATIA-L] Lamb Roast >>> >>> >>>> Ahh.... just had some REAL Croatian Sarma at Marie's Restaurant on St >>>> Clair in Cleveland. The owners are the family Sabalic from Ljubuski, >>>> Hercegovina. REAL sarma must always be made using "soured leaves", >>>> which >>>> we can purchase at Zagreb Meats on St Clair. If you can not purchase >>>> "soured cabbage" then par boiling the leaves in vinegar water may work. >>>> For many years I did not like sarma, then I discovered that many (most >>>> immigrants I know here in Cleveland) do not add tomatoes, and that is >>>> what >>>> I did not like! Most here will make a rue and then add paprika and a >>>> bit >>>> of water to make a delicous sauce to pour over the sarma and mashed >>>> potatoes or dumplings. >>>> >>>> My experience with the (too) many Croatian functions that I attend is >>>> that >>>> if there are many immigrants the food is authentic and if the majority >>>> are >>>> American born the food has some resemblance to the authentic stuff but >>>> does not come close. >>>> >>>> Here is a recipe that I have found to my taste from the Embassy web >>>> page. >>>> >>>> http://www.croatiaemb.org/basic_facts/christmas97.htm >>>> >>>> Robert >>>> >>>> Karen Heiser wrote: >>>> Dear List - I think the "western expansion" did in a lot of our >>>> families >>>> and >>>> traditions. Traveling 30 miles for the family reunion is a lot easier >>>> and >>>> cheaper than travelling 2500 miles. And then there is the marriage >>>> thing...not many of us were able to marry within our ethnicity, so then >>>> you >>>> have another whole set of traditions to work with. >>>> But if you don't stop talking about lamb and sarma, the drooling is >>>> going >>>> to >>>> ruin my keyboard! >>>> Karen Heiser >>>> Weed, Siskiyou, CA >>>> ----- Original Message ----- >>>> From: "Jerome Buza" >>>> To: >>>> Sent: Wednesday, March 30, 2005 9:58 PM >>>> Subject: Re: [CROATIA-L] Lamb Roast >>>> >>>> >>>>> Another reason for the demise of many of the family customs is the way >>>>> we >>>>> travel around and move far away. We try to keep up our family customs >>>> even >>>>> though we are in AZ and most of the family is in MI or IL. However, >>>>> many >>>> of >>>>> my aunts and uncles married people that were not that interested and >>>>> now >>>> the >>>>> kids aren't either. My generation knows that my mom cooked like >>>>> Grandma >>>> and >>>>> that I cook like mom and are asking me for recipes. However, many >>>>> didn't >>>>> have the traditions followed all their lives like I did with my mother >>>>> and >>>>> my husband did with his part of the Polish family. Our own daughter >>>>> has >>>>> been living in TX for 20 of her 21 years of married life and doesn't >>>> follow >>>>> our traditions. Her kids are fussy and wouldn't eat the food anyway. >>>>> Margaret >>>>> ----- Original Message ----- >>>>> From: "al toennies" >>>>> To: >>>>> Sent: Wednesday, March 30, 2005 4:25 PM >>>>> Subject: Re: [CROATIA-L] Lamb Roast >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> > Good question Joy! I think a bunch of siblings (like these folks >>>>> > were) >>>>> > can keep it together naturally but when they start to fade away and >>>>> > you >>>>> > are left with cousins and a collection of spouses with family ties >>>>> > of >>>>> > their own, you need a catalytic agent of some sort - maybe a person >>>>> > or >>>>> > a >>>>> > group of people that pulls or pushes the different family members >>>>> > together. They have to be either loved or feared or so much of a >>>>> > pain >>>> it >>>>> > the butt that everybody gives in to avoid further hassles. I watched >>>>> > my >>>>> > mother's Swedish family gatherings wither away after my Grandmother >>>> died - >>>>> > she was a catalyst of a sort and no one replaced her. >>>>> > >>>>> > Al in Music City >>>>> > ----- Original Message ----- >>>>> > >>>>> > From: "Joy Durrett" >>>>> > To: >>>>> > Sent: Wednesday, March 30, 2005 8:57 AM >>>>> > Subject: Re: [CROATIA-L] Lamb Roast >>>>> > >>>>> > >>>>> >> Why didn't the next generation keep it going? Sounds like a great >>>>> >> way >>>> to >>>>> >> keep the family together. >>>>> >> >>>>> >> Joy >>>>> >> ----- Original Message ----- >>>>> >> From: "al toennies" >>>>> >> To: >>>>> >> Sent: Wednesday, March 30, 2005 2:52 AM >>>>> >> Subject: Re: [CROATIA-L] Lamb Roast >>>>> >> >>>>> >> >>>>> >>> My wife's family (all of Croatian descent) used to have a picnic >>>>> >>> at >>>>> >>> a >>>>> >>> summer home in Silver Lake, WI (we were all from Chicago) and >>>>> >>> roasted >>>> a >>>>> >>> whole lamb over charcoal in a 55 gallon drum split lengthwise with >>>>> >>> a >>>>> >>> home-made turning mechanism >>>>> >>> doing all the heavy work. I was never a big fan of lamb but I made >>>>> >>> an >>>>> >>> exception for that - Most of those folks are gone now but the >>>>> >>> memories >>>>> >>> remain including the best lamb I have ever eaten. >>>>> >>> >>>>> >>> Al in Music City >>>>> >>> >>>>> >>> ----- Original Message ----- >>>>> >>> From: "Robert Jerin" >>>>> >>> To: >>>>> >>> Sent: Tuesday, March 29, 2005 12:44 PM >>>>> >>> Subject: Re: [CROATIA-L] Lamb Roast >>>>> >>> >>>>> >>> >>>>> >>>> Nick, >>>>> >>>> >>>>> >>>> I must admit that I roasted just a leg and used my Weber with >>>>> >>>> nice >>>> hot >>>>> >>>> coals on the side. Pleeeze don't tell any real Croatians about my >>>>> >>>> "unorthodox" method of using a Weber! Everyone here loves roast >>>>> >>>> lamb >>>>> >>>> except the wife. So it was enough for the gang. But IMHO the >>>>> >>>> secret >>>>> >>>> is selecting the right piece, trimming much of the fact and then >>>>> >>>> coating the lamb with olive oil, salt (I use Croatian Podravka >>>> Vegeta), >>>>> >>>> pepper, fresh chopped garlic and rosemary and let it marinate in >>>>> >>>> the >>>>> >>>> fridge for a day or more... then setting the piece out about 2 >>>>> >>>> hours >>>>> >>>> before placing on the grill. Oh the other trick is slow roasting, >>>>> >>>> no >>>>> >>>> flame, just hot coals and not too close to the coals....mmmm.... >>>>> >>>> >>>>> >>>> It has been several years since our Junior tammie group here in >>>>> >>>> Cleveland had a picnic... at that time we would take most of Sat >>>>> >>>> afternoon to set up 8 whole lambs and 9 pigs on spits, then >>>>> >>>> season >>>> them >>>>> >>>> and put them in the cooler for Sun am.. after that we would feast >>>>> >>>> on >>>>> >>>> gulas that I would make along with salad, some wine and slivovitz >>>>> >>>> and >>>>> >>>> one of the father's, who has since passed away would play his >>>> harmonika >>>>> >>>> (accordian) and all the guys would dance to his Bosanac songs! >>>>> >>>> What >>>> a >>>>> >>>> sight! Then at 4 AM on Sunday I would meet my friend Mato Vrbic >>>>> >>>> at >>>> the >>>>> >>>> picnic center to prepare the fire... then a little coffee with >>>>> >>>> slivovitz of course... and about 6AM we would consider the coals >>>>> >>>> and >>>>> >>>> the brick lined floor hot enough to place the first few pieces on >>>>> >>>> the >>>>> >>>> spit... then about 11:30 ish the first ones would come off to be >>>>> >>>> cut >>>>> >>>> and served.... that Sunday would finish up at about 10-11 PM >>>>> >>>> making >>>>> >>>> sure the center was left in better condition than we found it! >>>>> >>>> Lots >>>>> >>>> of work but I miss those ! >>>>> >>>> days... >>>>> >>>> as they brought back memories of my Grandparent's PLASAJ (Mirko >>>>> >>>> and >>>>> >>>> Mary) and my cousin's BAKALE (Ivan and Johanna)farms in PA and >>>>> >>>> the >>>>> >>>> picnics we would have there. But they are all gone now so we try >>>>> >>>> to >>>>> >>>> carry on some semblance of those traditions..... >>>>> >>>> >>>>> >>>> http://www.podravka.com/en/products/index.php?if=new_products.php >>>>> >>>> >>>>> >>>> Here is a photo that may bring back some memories >>>>> >>>> >>>>> >>>> http://www.members.shaw.ca/rogergou/bast4.jpeg >>>>> >>>> >>>>> >>>> Robert >>>>> >>>> >>>>> >>>> nharamija wrote: >>>>> >>>> Robert; Let us see your grille and how you set it up. >>>>> >>>> Nick >>>>> >>>> >>>>> >>>> ----- Original Message ----- >>>>> >>>> From: "Robert Jerin" >>>>> >>>> To: >>>>> >>>> Sent: Tuesday, March 29, 2005 11:50 AM >>>>> >>>> Subject: Re: [CROATIA-L] Test >>>>> >>>> >>>>> >>>> >>>>> >>>> My wife did those things! I was busy roasting.... lamb! >>>>> >>>> >>>>> >>>> >>>>> >>>> >>>>> >>>> Jerome Buza wrote: >>>>> >>>> That's right!!! We were all busy baking and cooking and dying >>>>> >>>> eggs >>>> and >>>>> >>>> cleaning the house for company. >>>>> >>>> Margaret >>>>> >>>> ----- Original Message ----- >>>>> >>>> From: "dave mothkovich" >>>>> >>>> To: >>>>> >>>> Sent: Tuesday, March 29, 2005 2:32 AM >>>>> >>>> Subject: Re: [CROATIA-L] Test >>>>> >>>> >>>>> >>>> >>>>> >>>>> Everybody got busy, and then the holiday came, it happens. >>>>> >>>>> Christmas >>>>> >>>>> was >>>>> >>>>> different, everyone had time to chat it up. >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> Dave >>>>> >>>>> On Tue, 29 Mar 2005 17:45:41 +0800 "John Stefanac" >>>>> >>>>> writes: >>>>> >>>>>> Is it just quiet on this list or have I somehow been kicked off >>>>> >>>>>> it >>>>> >>>>>> again >>>>> >>>>>> >>>>> >>>>>> >>>>> >>>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> -- >>>>> >>>>> No virus found in this incoming message. >>>>> >>>>> Checked by AVG Anti-Virus. >>>>> >>>>> Version: 7.0.308 / Virus Database: 266.8.4 - Release Date: >>>>> >>>>> 3/27/2005 >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>> >>>>> >>>> >>>>> >>>> >>>>> >>>> Interested in visting Croatia? Click on the link below to find >>>>> >>>> out >>>>> >>>> about a >>>>> >>>> wonderful tour of Croatia! >>>>> >>>> >>>>> >>>> http://www.kollander-travel.com/ >>>>> >>>> >>>>> >>>> >>>>> >>>> >>>>> >>>> >>>>> >>>> >>>>> >>>> Interested in visting Croatia? Click on the link below to find >>>>> >>>> out >>>>> >>>> about a wonderful tour of Croatia! >>>>> >>>> >>>>> >>>> http://www.kollander-travel.com/ >>>>> >>>> >>>>> >>> >>>>> >> >>>>> > >>>>> > >>>>> > >>>>> > -- >>>>> > No virus found in this incoming message. >>>>> > Checked by AVG Anti-Virus. >>>>> > Version: 7.0.308 / Virus Database: 266.8.4 - Release Date: 3/27/2005 >>>>> > >>>>> > >>>>> >>>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> Interested in visting Croatia? Click on the link below to find out >>>> about >>>> a wonderful tour of Croatia! >>>> >>>> http://www.kollander-travel.com/ >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> -- >>>> No virus found in this incoming message. >>>> Checked by AVG Anti-Virus. >>>> Version: 7.0.308 / Virus Database: 266.8.4 - Release Date: 3/27/2005 >>>> >>>> >>> >>> >>> >>> Interested in visting Croatia? Click on the link below to find out about >>> a wonderful tour of Croatia! >>> >>> http://www.kollander-travel.com/ >>> >>> >>> >>> -- >>> No virus found in this incoming message. >>> Checked by AVG Anti-Virus. >>> Version: 7.0.308 / Virus Database: 266.8.4 - Release Date: 3/27/2005 >>> >>> >> >> >> >> Interested in visting Croatia? Click on the link below to find out about >> a wonderful tour of Croatia! >> >> http://www.kollander-travel.com/ >> >> >> >> -- >> No virus found in this incoming message. >> Checked by AVG Anti-Virus. >> Version: 7.0.308 / Virus Database: 266.9.1 - Release Date: 4/1/2005 >> >> > >

I can't find "zafrik" in either of my dictionaries. Margaret ----- Original Message ----- From: "Donald Marinkovich" <[email protected]> To: <[email protected]> Sent: Friday, April 01, 2005 8:49 AM Subject: Re: [CROATIA-L] Croatian recipe links > I'm pretty sure that my mother called tha zafrik. > Don > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Jerome Buza" <[email protected]> > To: <[email protected]> > Sent: Friday, April 01, 2005 9:35 AM > Subject: Re: [CROATIA-L] Croatian recipe links > > >> Robert, thanks for those sites. I didn't know what a "roux" was until I >> was an adult. My mom and grandma always said "Eimprem" and in many of my >> Croatian and Slovenian church cookbooks, it is spelled "Eimprem" or >> "Aimprem". It was only in the past few years that I knew it was >> "Einbrenne" in German and I lived in Germany for 3 years in the 60's. I >> guess I was too busy tending to my 3 little children and didn't pay >> attention to the relatives. I did pick up a lot of words then, though. >> I do have some Slovenian to English and Croation to English and vice >> versa dictionaries that I need to find and use more often. >> I knew about "speck" or Spek and shincken and sunka and my dad called >> polenta "gonca". in Slovenian which would be like the zgonci that you >> mentioned. >> God bless, Margaret >> ----- Original Message ----- >> From: "Robert Jerin" <[email protected]> >> To: <[email protected]> >> Sent: Friday, April 01, 2005 5:00 AM >> Subject: Re: [CROATIA-L] Croatian recipe links >> >> >>> Margaret, >>> >>> Aha, I have never heard that term. Evidently it is a German word... >>> roux = die Einbrenne in German Of course I know about roux as one of my >>> favorite dishes to make is Jambalya, which begins with a roux ... takes >>> the better part of a day. Interesting how words are exchanged amongst >>> peoples... my Grandmother called her homemade cottage cheese Schmierkase >>> >>> But even in the Croatian language there are some borrowed words... >>> >>> For instance German for bacon is spek, one Croatian word is spek, ham is >>> shincken in German and sunka in Croatian, polenta is used by many >>> Croaitans but is an Italian word but the real Croatian word zgonci (not >>> certain of the spelling) is in Bosnia they call it pule or pure, this is >>> great with a veal stew over the top.... mmm... >>> >>> Here are some links Croatian recipes >>> >>> http://www.croatianmall.com/croatia/food/34_croatian_recipes.htm >>> >>> http://www.balkanweb.com/kroacia/recipes.htm >>> >>> http://www.gourmed.gr/recipes/croatian/?gid=1&nodeid=13 >>> >>> http://www.pitt.edu/~slavic/sli/admin/croatcook.html >>> >>> http://www.hvar.hr/Default.aspx?tabid=640 >>> >>> http://fooddownunder.com/cgi-bin/search.cgi?q=croatian >>> >>> http://www.recipesource.com/ethnic/europe/croatian/ >>> >>> http://www.croatianmall.com/croatia/food/Index.htm >>> >>> Dobar tek! >>> >>> Robert >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> Jerome Buza <[email protected]> wrote: >>> Hi Robert, Eimprem or Einbren is what my grandmother called "roux". >>> Margaret >>> ----- Original Message ----- >>> From: "Robert Jerin" >>> To: >>> Sent: Thursday, March 31, 2005 7:24 PM >>> Subject: Re: [CROATIA-L] Lamb Roast >>> >>> >>>> Hi Margaret, >>>> >>>> Sounds good! >>>> >>>> What is Eimprem? >>>> >>>> Robert >>>> >>>> Jerome Buza wrote: >>>> Thanks Robert, I will read that page and enjoy it, I am sure. My family >>>> always made the Sarma with sauerkraut, no tomatoes, and that is the way >>>> I >>>> love it. Of course, there was an Eimprem, too. While living in Turkey, >>>> I >>>> ate their Sarma and it was different,but we grew to love it. Mom just >>>> boiled the leaves in vinegar water and when I was young, the produce >>>> man >>>> at >>>> the local A & P store gave my mom the outer leaves. Now, they don't >>>> have >>>> them available. So, growing the cabbages in our garden at our mountain >>>> cabin in AZ has become our way of having the larger leaves of cabbage >>>> to >>>> use. >>>> Margaret >>>> ----- Original Message ----- >>>> From: "Robert Jerin" >>>> To: >>>> Sent: Thursday, March 31, 2005 5:42 AM >>>> Subject: Re: [CROATIA-L] Lamb Roast >>>> >>>> >>>>> Ahh.... just had some REAL Croatian Sarma at Marie's Restaurant on St >>>>> Clair in Cleveland. The owners are the family Sabalic from Ljubuski, >>>>> Hercegovina. REAL sarma must always be made using "soured leaves", >>>>> which >>>>> we can purchase at Zagreb Meats on St Clair. If you can not purchase >>>>> "soured cabbage" then par boiling the leaves in vinegar water may >>>>> work. >>>>> For many years I did not like sarma, then I discovered that many (most >>>>> immigrants I know here in Cleveland) do not add tomatoes, and that is >>>>> what >>>>> I did not like! Most here will make a rue and then add paprika and a >>>>> bit >>>>> of water to make a delicous sauce to pour over the sarma and mashed >>>>> potatoes or dumplings. >>>>> >>>>> My experience with the (too) many Croatian functions that I attend is >>>>> that >>>>> if there are many immigrants the food is authentic and if the majority >>>>> are >>>>> American born the food has some resemblance to the authentic stuff but >>>>> does not come close. >>>>> >>>>> Here is a recipe that I have found to my taste from the Embassy web >>>>> page. >>>>> >>>>> http://www.croatiaemb.org/basic_facts/christmas97.htm >>>>> >>>>> Robert >>>>> >>>>> Karen Heiser wrote: >>>>> Dear List - I think the "western expansion" did in a lot of our >>>>> families >>>>> and >>>>> traditions. Traveling 30 miles for the family reunion is a lot easier >>>>> and >>>>> cheaper than travelling 2500 miles. And then there is the marriage >>>>> thing...not many of us were able to marry within our ethnicity, so >>>>> then >>>>> you >>>>> have another whole set of traditions to work with. >>>>> But if you don't stop talking about lamb and sarma, the drooling is >>>>> going >>>>> to >>>>> ruin my keyboard! >>>>> Karen Heiser >>>>> Weed, Siskiyou, CA >>>>> ----- Original Message ----- >>>>> From: "Jerome Buza" >>>>> To: >>>>> Sent: Wednesday, March 30, 2005 9:58 PM >>>>> Subject: Re: [CROATIA-L] Lamb Roast >>>>> >>>>> >>>>>> Another reason for the demise of many of the family customs is the >>>>>> way >>>>>> we >>>>>> travel around and move far away. We try to keep up our family customs >>>>> even >>>>>> though we are in AZ and most of the family is in MI or IL. However, >>>>>> many >>>>> of >>>>>> my aunts and uncles married people that were not that interested and >>>>>> now >>>>> the >>>>>> kids aren't either. My generation knows that my mom cooked like >>>>>> Grandma >>>>> and >>>>>> that I cook like mom and are asking me for recipes. However, many >>>>>> didn't >>>>>> have the traditions followed all their lives like I did with my >>>>>> mother >>>>>> and >>>>>> my husband did with his part of the Polish family. Our own daughter >>>>>> has >>>>>> been living in TX for 20 of her 21 years of married life and doesn't >>>>> follow >>>>>> our traditions. Her kids are fussy and wouldn't eat the food anyway. >>>>>> Margaret >>>>>> ----- Original Message ----- >>>>>> From: "al toennies" >>>>>> To: >>>>>> Sent: Wednesday, March 30, 2005 4:25 PM >>>>>> Subject: Re: [CROATIA-L] Lamb Roast >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> > Good question Joy! I think a bunch of siblings (like these folks >>>>>> > were) >>>>>> > can keep it together naturally but when they start to fade away and >>>>>> > you >>>>>> > are left with cousins and a collection of spouses with family ties >>>>>> > of >>>>>> > their own, you need a catalytic agent of some sort - maybe a person >>>>>> > or >>>>>> > a >>>>>> > group of people that pulls or pushes the different family members >>>>>> > together. They have to be either loved or feared or so much of a >>>>>> > pain >>>>> it >>>>>> > the butt that everybody gives in to avoid further hassles. I >>>>>> > watched >>>>>> > my >>>>>> > mother's Swedish family gatherings wither away after my Grandmother >>>>> died - >>>>>> > she was a catalyst of a sort and no one replaced her. >>>>>> > >>>>>> > Al in Music City >>>>>> > ----- Original Message ----- >>>>>> > >>>>>> > From: "Joy Durrett" >>>>>> > To: >>>>>> > Sent: Wednesday, March 30, 2005 8:57 AM >>>>>> > Subject: Re: [CROATIA-L] Lamb Roast >>>>>> > >>>>>> > >>>>>> >> Why didn't the next generation keep it going? Sounds like a great >>>>>> >> way >>>>> to >>>>>> >> keep the family together. >>>>>> >> >>>>>> >> Joy >>>>>> >> ----- Original Message ----- >>>>>> >> From: "al toennies" >>>>>> >> To: >>>>>> >> Sent: Wednesday, March 30, 2005 2:52 AM >>>>>> >> Subject: Re: [CROATIA-L] Lamb Roast >>>>>> >> >>>>>> >> >>>>>> >>> My wife's family (all of Croatian descent) used to have a picnic >>>>>> >>> at >>>>>> >>> a >>>>>> >>> summer home in Silver Lake, WI (we were all from Chicago) and >>>>>> >>> roasted >>>>> a >>>>>> >>> whole lamb over charcoal in a 55 gallon drum split lengthwise >>>>>> >>> with a >>>>>> >>> home-made turning mechanism >>>>>> >>> doing all the heavy work. I was never a big fan of lamb but I >>>>>> >>> made >>>>>> >>> an >>>>>> >>> exception for that - Most of those folks are gone now but the >>>>>> >>> memories >>>>>> >>> remain including the best lamb I have ever eaten. >>>>>> >>> >>>>>> >>> Al in Music City >>>>>> >>> >>>>>> >>> ----- Original Message ----- >>>>>> >>> From: "Robert Jerin" >>>>>> >>> To: >>>>>> >>> Sent: Tuesday, March 29, 2005 12:44 PM >>>>>> >>> Subject: Re: [CROATIA-L] Lamb Roast >>>>>> >>> >>>>>> >>> >>>>>> >>>> Nick, >>>>>> >>>> >>>>>> >>>> I must admit that I roasted just a leg and used my Weber with >>>>>> >>>> nice >>>>> hot >>>>>> >>>> coals on the side. Pleeeze don't tell any real Croatians about >>>>>> >>>> my >>>>>> >>>> "unorthodox" method of using a Weber! Everyone here loves roast >>>>>> >>>> lamb >>>>>> >>>> except the wife. So it was enough for the gang. But IMHO the >>>>>> >>>> secret >>>>>> >>>> is selecting the right piece, trimming much of the fact and then >>>>>> >>>> coating the lamb with olive oil, salt (I use Croatian Podravka >>>>> Vegeta), >>>>>> >>>> pepper, fresh chopped garlic and rosemary and let it marinate in >>>>>> >>>> the >>>>>> >>>> fridge for a day or more... then setting the piece out about 2 >>>>>> >>>> hours >>>>>> >>>> before placing on the grill. Oh the other trick is slow >>>>>> >>>> roasting, >>>>>> >>>> no >>>>>> >>>> flame, just hot coals and not too close to the coals....mmmm.... >>>>>> >>>> >>>>>> >>>> It has been several years since our Junior tammie group here in >>>>>> >>>> Cleveland had a picnic... at that time we would take most of Sat >>>>>> >>>> afternoon to set up 8 whole lambs and 9 pigs on spits, then >>>>>> >>>> season >>>>> them >>>>>> >>>> and put them in the cooler for Sun am.. after that we would >>>>>> >>>> feast >>>>>> >>>> on >>>>>> >>>> gulas that I would make along with salad, some wine and >>>>>> >>>> slivovitz >>>>>> >>>> and >>>>>> >>>> one of the father's, who has since passed away would play his >>>>> harmonika >>>>>> >>>> (accordian) and all the guys would dance to his Bosanac songs! >>>>>> >>>> What >>>>> a >>>>>> >>>> sight! Then at 4 AM on Sunday I would meet my friend Mato Vrbic >>>>>> >>>> at >>>>> the >>>>>> >>>> picnic center to prepare the fire... then a little coffee with >>>>>> >>>> slivovitz of course... and about 6AM we would consider the coals >>>>>> >>>> and >>>>>> >>>> the brick lined floor hot enough to place the first few pieces >>>>>> >>>> on >>>>>> >>>> the >>>>>> >>>> spit... then about 11:30 ish the first ones would come off to be >>>>>> >>>> cut >>>>>> >>>> and served.... that Sunday would finish up at about 10-11 PM >>>>>> >>>> making >>>>>> >>>> sure the center was left in better condition than we found it! >>>>>> >>>> Lots >>>>>> >>>> of work but I miss those ! >>>>>> >>>> days... >>>>>> >>>> as they brought back memories of my Grandparent's PLASAJ (Mirko >>>>>> >>>> and >>>>>> >>>> Mary) and my cousin's BAKALE (Ivan and Johanna)farms in PA and >>>>>> >>>> the >>>>>> >>>> picnics we would have there. But they are all gone now so we try >>>>>> >>>> to >>>>>> >>>> carry on some semblance of those traditions..... >>>>>> >>>> >>>>>> >>>> http://www.podravka.com/en/products/index.php?if=new_products.php >>>>>> >>>> >>>>>> >>>> Here is a photo that may bring back some memories >>>>>> >>>> >>>>>> >>>> http://www.members.shaw.ca/rogergou/bast4.jpeg >>>>>> >>>> >>>>>> >>>> Robert >>>>>> >>>> >>>>>> >>>> nharamija wrote: >>>>>> >>>> Robert; Let us see your grille and how you set it up. >>>>>> >>>> Nick >>>>>> >>>> >>>>>> >>>> ----- Original Message ----- >>>>>> >>>> From: "Robert Jerin" >>>>>> >>>> To: >>>>>> >>>> Sent: Tuesday, March 29, 2005 11:50 AM >>>>>> >>>> Subject: Re: [CROATIA-L] Test >>>>>> >>>> >>>>>> >>>> >>>>>> >>>> My wife did those things! I was busy roasting.... lamb! >>>>>> >>>> >>>>>> >>>> >>>>>> >>>> >>>>>> >>>> Jerome Buza wrote: >>>>>> >>>> That's right!!! We were all busy baking and cooking and dying >>>>>> >>>> eggs >>>>> and >>>>>> >>>> cleaning the house for company. >>>>>> >>>> Margaret >>>>>> >>>> ----- Original Message ----- >>>>>> >>>> From: "dave mothkovich" >>>>>> >>>> To: >>>>>> >>>> Sent: Tuesday, March 29, 2005 2:32 AM >>>>>> >>>> Subject: Re: [CROATIA-L] Test >>>>>> >>>> >>>>>> >>>> >>>>>> >>>>> Everybody got busy, and then the holiday came, it happens. >>>>>> >>>>> Christmas >>>>>> >>>>> was >>>>>> >>>>> different, everyone had time to chat it up. >>>>>> >>>>> >>>>>> >>>>> Dave >>>>>> >>>>> On Tue, 29 Mar 2005 17:45:41 +0800 "John Stefanac" >>>>>> >>>>> writes: >>>>>> >>>>>> Is it just quiet on this list or have I somehow been kicked >>>>>> >>>>>> off >>>>>> >>>>>> it >>>>>> >>>>>> again >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>> >>>>>> >>>>> >>>>>> >>>>> >>>>>> >>>>> -- >>>>>> >>>>> No virus found in this incoming message. >>>>>> >>>>> Checked by AVG Anti-Virus. >>>>>> >>>>> Version: 7.0.308 / Virus Database: 266.8.4 - Release Date: >>>>>> >>>>> 3/27/2005 >>>>>> >>>>> >>>>>> >>>>> >>>>>> >>>> >>>>>> >>>> >>>>>> >>>> >>>>>> >>>> Interested in visting Croatia? Click on the link below to find >>>>>> >>>> out >>>>>> >>>> about a >>>>>> >>>> wonderful tour of Croatia! >>>>>> >>>> >>>>>> >>>> http://www.kollander-travel.com/ >>>>>> >>>> >>>>>> >>>> >>>>>> >>>> >>>>>> >>>> >>>>>> >>>> >>>>>> >>>> Interested in visting Croatia? Click on the link below to find >>>>>> >>>> out >>>>>> >>>> about a wonderful tour of Croatia! >>>>>> >>>> >>>>>> >>>> http://www.kollander-travel.com/ >>>>>> >>>> >>>>>> >>> >>>>>> >> >>>>>> > >>>>>> > >>>>>> > >>>>>> > -- >>>>>> > No virus found in this incoming message. >>>>>> > Checked by AVG Anti-Virus. >>>>>> > Version: 7.0.308 / Virus Database: 266.8.4 - Release Date: >>>>>> > 3/27/2005 >>>>>> > >>>>>> > >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> Interested in visting Croatia? Click on the link below to find out >>>>> about >>>>> a wonderful tour of Croatia! >>>>> >>>>> http://www.kollander-travel.com/ >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> -- >>>>> No virus found in this incoming message. >>>>> Checked by AVG Anti-Virus. >>>>> Version: 7.0.308 / Virus Database: 266.8.4 - Release Date: 3/27/2005 >>>>> >>>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> Interested in visting Croatia? Click on the link below to find out >>>> about >>>> a wonderful tour of Croatia! >>>> >>>> http://www.kollander-travel.com/ >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> -- >>>> No virus found in this incoming message. >>>> Checked by AVG Anti-Virus. >>>> Version: 7.0.308 / Virus Database: 266.8.4 - Release Date: 3/27/2005 >>>> >>>> >>> >>> >>> >>> Interested in visting Croatia? Click on the link below to find out >>> about a wonderful tour of Croatia! >>> >>> http://www.kollander-travel.com/ >>> >>> >>> >>> -- >>> No virus found in this incoming message. >>> Checked by AVG Anti-Virus. >>> Version: 7.0.308 / Virus Database: 266.9.1 - Release Date: 4/1/2005 >>> >>> >> >> > > > > > -- > No virus found in this incoming message. > Checked by AVG Anti-Virus. > Version: 7.0.308 / Virus Database: 266.9.1 - Release Date: 4/1/2005 >

Robert, I just checked out those sites and put some in my Favorites so I can go back to them. I have two of the cookbooks in the sites, the one from the church in Los Angeles and the Best of Croatian Cooking. It is interesting reading them and finding things that my Grandmother made. However, I am finding that most of her cooking leaned more toward the German-Hungarian being her mother in law was DonauSwaben. The Croatian recipes lean more toward the Turkish style like I learned while living in Turkey for two years. Margaret ----- Original Message ----- From: "Robert Jerin" <[email protected]> To: <[email protected]> Sent: Friday, April 01, 2005 5:00 AM Subject: Re: [CROATIA-L] Croatian recipe links > Margaret, > > Aha, I have never heard that term. Evidently it is a German word... roux > = die Einbrenne in German Of course I know about roux as one of my > favorite dishes to make is Jambalya, which begins with a roux ... takes > the better part of a day. Interesting how words are exchanged amongst > peoples... my Grandmother called her homemade cottage cheese Schmierkase > > But even in the Croatian language there are some borrowed words... > > For instance German for bacon is spek, one Croatian word is spek, ham is > shincken in German and sunka in Croatian, polenta is used by many > Croaitans but is an Italian word but the real Croatian word zgonci (not > certain of the spelling) is in Bosnia they call it pule or pure, this is > great with a veal stew over the top.... mmm... > > Here are some links Croatian recipes > > http://www.croatianmall.com/croatia/food/34_croatian_recipes.htm > > http://www.balkanweb.com/kroacia/recipes.htm > > http://www.gourmed.gr/recipes/croatian/?gid=1&nodeid=13 > > http://www.pitt.edu/~slavic/sli/admin/croatcook.html > > http://www.hvar.hr/Default.aspx?tabid=640 > > http://fooddownunder.com/cgi-bin/search.cgi?q=croatian > > http://www.recipesource.com/ethnic/europe/croatian/ > > http://www.croatianmall.com/croatia/food/Index.htm > > Dobar tek! > > Robert > > > > > Jerome Buza <[email protected]> wrote: > Hi Robert, Eimprem or Einbren is what my grandmother called "roux". > Margaret > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Robert Jerin" > To: > Sent: Thursday, March 31, 2005 7:24 PM > Subject: Re: [CROATIA-L] Lamb Roast > > >> Hi Margaret, >> >> Sounds good! >> >> What is Eimprem? >> >> Robert >> >> Jerome Buza wrote: >> Thanks Robert, I will read that page and enjoy it, I am sure. My family >> always made the Sarma with sauerkraut, no tomatoes, and that is the way I >> love it. Of course, there was an Eimprem, too. While living in Turkey, I >> ate their Sarma and it was different,but we grew to love it. Mom just >> boiled the leaves in vinegar water and when I was young, the produce man >> at >> the local A & P store gave my mom the outer leaves. Now, they don't have >> them available. So, growing the cabbages in our garden at our mountain >> cabin in AZ has become our way of having the larger leaves of cabbage to >> use. >> Margaret >> ----- Original Message ----- >> From: "Robert Jerin" >> To: >> Sent: Thursday, March 31, 2005 5:42 AM >> Subject: Re: [CROATIA-L] Lamb Roast >> >> >>> Ahh.... just had some REAL Croatian Sarma at Marie's Restaurant on St >>> Clair in Cleveland. The owners are the family Sabalic from Ljubuski, >>> Hercegovina. REAL sarma must always be made using "soured leaves", which >>> we can purchase at Zagreb Meats on St Clair. If you can not purchase >>> "soured cabbage" then par boiling the leaves in vinegar water may work. >>> For many years I did not like sarma, then I discovered that many (most >>> immigrants I know here in Cleveland) do not add tomatoes, and that is >>> what >>> I did not like! Most here will make a rue and then add paprika and a bit >>> of water to make a delicous sauce to pour over the sarma and mashed >>> potatoes or dumplings. >>> >>> My experience with the (too) many Croatian functions that I attend is >>> that >>> if there are many immigrants the food is authentic and if the majority >>> are >>> American born the food has some resemblance to the authentic stuff but >>> does not come close. >>> >>> Here is a recipe that I have found to my taste from the Embassy web >>> page. >>> >>> http://www.croatiaemb.org/basic_facts/christmas97.htm >>> >>> Robert >>> >>> Karen Heiser wrote: >>> Dear List - I think the "western expansion" did in a lot of our families >>> and >>> traditions. Traveling 30 miles for the family reunion is a lot easier >>> and >>> cheaper than travelling 2500 miles. And then there is the marriage >>> thing...not many of us were able to marry within our ethnicity, so then >>> you >>> have another whole set of traditions to work with. >>> But if you don't stop talking about lamb and sarma, the drooling is >>> going >>> to >>> ruin my keyboard! >>> Karen Heiser >>> Weed, Siskiyou, CA >>> ----- Original Message ----- >>> From: "Jerome Buza" >>> To: >>> Sent: Wednesday, March 30, 2005 9:58 PM >>> Subject: Re: [CROATIA-L] Lamb Roast >>> >>> >>>> Another reason for the demise of many of the family customs is the way >>>> we >>>> travel around and move far away. We try to keep up our family customs >>> even >>>> though we are in AZ and most of the family is in MI or IL. However, >>>> many >>> of >>>> my aunts and uncles married people that were not that interested and >>>> now >>> the >>>> kids aren't either. My generation knows that my mom cooked like Grandma >>> and >>>> that I cook like mom and are asking me for recipes. However, many >>>> didn't >>>> have the traditions followed all their lives like I did with my mother >>>> and >>>> my husband did with his part of the Polish family. Our own daughter has >>>> been living in TX for 20 of her 21 years of married life and doesn't >>> follow >>>> our traditions. Her kids are fussy and wouldn't eat the food anyway. >>>> Margaret >>>> ----- Original Message ----- >>>> From: "al toennies" >>>> To: >>>> Sent: Wednesday, March 30, 2005 4:25 PM >>>> Subject: Re: [CROATIA-L] Lamb Roast >>>> >>>> >>>> > Good question Joy! I think a bunch of siblings (like these folks >>>> > were) >>>> > can keep it together naturally but when they start to fade away and >>>> > you >>>> > are left with cousins and a collection of spouses with family ties of >>>> > their own, you need a catalytic agent of some sort - maybe a person >>>> > or >>>> > a >>>> > group of people that pulls or pushes the different family members >>>> > together. They have to be either loved or feared or so much of a pain >>> it >>>> > the butt that everybody gives in to avoid further hassles. I watched >>>> > my >>>> > mother's Swedish family gatherings wither away after my Grandmother >>> died - >>>> > she was a catalyst of a sort and no one replaced her. >>>> > >>>> > Al in Music City >>>> > ----- Original Message ----- >>>> > >>>> > From: "Joy Durrett" >>>> > To: >>>> > Sent: Wednesday, March 30, 2005 8:57 AM >>>> > Subject: Re: [CROATIA-L] Lamb Roast >>>> > >>>> > >>>> >> Why didn't the next generation keep it going? Sounds like a great >>>> >> way >>> to >>>> >> keep the family together. >>>> >> >>>> >> Joy >>>> >> ----- Original Message ----- >>>> >> From: "al toennies" >>>> >> To: >>>> >> Sent: Wednesday, March 30, 2005 2:52 AM >>>> >> Subject: Re: [CROATIA-L] Lamb Roast >>>> >> >>>> >> >>>> >>> My wife's family (all of Croatian descent) used to have a picnic at >>>> >>> a >>>> >>> summer home in Silver Lake, WI (we were all from Chicago) and >>>> >>> roasted >>> a >>>> >>> whole lamb over charcoal in a 55 gallon drum split lengthwise with >>>> >>> a >>>> >>> home-made turning mechanism >>>> >>> doing all the heavy work. I was never a big fan of lamb but I made >>>> >>> an >>>> >>> exception for that - Most of those folks are gone now but the >>>> >>> memories >>>> >>> remain including the best lamb I have ever eaten. >>>> >>> >>>> >>> Al in Music City >>>> >>> >>>> >>> ----- Original Message ----- >>>> >>> From: "Robert Jerin" >>>> >>> To: >>>> >>> Sent: Tuesday, March 29, 2005 12:44 PM >>>> >>> Subject: Re: [CROATIA-L] Lamb Roast >>>> >>> >>>> >>> >>>> >>>> Nick, >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> I must admit that I roasted just a leg and used my Weber with nice >>> hot >>>> >>>> coals on the side. Pleeeze don't tell any real Croatians about my >>>> >>>> "unorthodox" method of using a Weber! Everyone here loves roast >>>> >>>> lamb >>>> >>>> except the wife. So it was enough for the gang. But IMHO the >>>> >>>> secret >>>> >>>> is selecting the right piece, trimming much of the fact and then >>>> >>>> coating the lamb with olive oil, salt (I use Croatian Podravka >>> Vegeta), >>>> >>>> pepper, fresh chopped garlic and rosemary and let it marinate in >>>> >>>> the >>>> >>>> fridge for a day or more... then setting the piece out about 2 >>>> >>>> hours >>>> >>>> before placing on the grill. Oh the other trick is slow roasting, >>>> >>>> no >>>> >>>> flame, just hot coals and not too close to the coals....mmmm.... >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> It has been several years since our Junior tammie group here in >>>> >>>> Cleveland had a picnic... at that time we would take most of Sat >>>> >>>> afternoon to set up 8 whole lambs and 9 pigs on spits, then season >>> them >>>> >>>> and put them in the cooler for Sun am.. after that we would feast >>>> >>>> on >>>> >>>> gulas that I would make along with salad, some wine and slivovitz >>>> >>>> and >>>> >>>> one of the father's, who has since passed away would play his >>> harmonika >>>> >>>> (accordian) and all the guys would dance to his Bosanac songs! >>>> >>>> What >>> a >>>> >>>> sight! Then at 4 AM on Sunday I would meet my friend Mato Vrbic at >>> the >>>> >>>> picnic center to prepare the fire... then a little coffee with >>>> >>>> slivovitz of course... and about 6AM we would consider the coals >>>> >>>> and >>>> >>>> the brick lined floor hot enough to place the first few pieces on >>>> >>>> the >>>> >>>> spit... then about 11:30 ish the first ones would come off to be >>>> >>>> cut >>>> >>>> and served.... that Sunday would finish up at about 10-11 PM >>>> >>>> making >>>> >>>> sure the center was left in better condition than we found it! >>>> >>>> Lots >>>> >>>> of work but I miss those ! >>>> >>>> days... >>>> >>>> as they brought back memories of my Grandparent's PLASAJ (Mirko >>>> >>>> and >>>> >>>> Mary) and my cousin's BAKALE (Ivan and Johanna)farms in PA and the >>>> >>>> picnics we would have there. But they are all gone now so we try >>>> >>>> to >>>> >>>> carry on some semblance of those traditions..... >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> http://www.podravka.com/en/products/index.php?if=new_products.php >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> Here is a photo that may bring back some memories >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> http://www.members.shaw.ca/rogergou/bast4.jpeg >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> Robert >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> nharamija wrote: >>>> >>>> Robert; Let us see your grille and how you set it up. >>>> >>>> Nick >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> ----- Original Message ----- >>>> >>>> From: "Robert Jerin" >>>> >>>> To: >>>> >>>> Sent: Tuesday, March 29, 2005 11:50 AM >>>> >>>> Subject: Re: [CROATIA-L] Test >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> My wife did those things! I was busy roasting.... lamb! >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> Jerome Buza wrote: >>>> >>>> That's right!!! We were all busy baking and cooking and dying eggs >>> and >>>> >>>> cleaning the house for company. >>>> >>>> Margaret >>>> >>>> ----- Original Message ----- >>>> >>>> From: "dave mothkovich" >>>> >>>> To: >>>> >>>> Sent: Tuesday, March 29, 2005 2:32 AM >>>> >>>> Subject: Re: [CROATIA-L] Test >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>>> Everybody got busy, and then the holiday came, it happens. >>>> >>>>> Christmas >>>> >>>>> was >>>> >>>>> different, everyone had time to chat it up. >>>> >>>>> >>>> >>>>> Dave >>>> >>>>> On Tue, 29 Mar 2005 17:45:41 +0800 "John Stefanac" >>>> >>>>> writes: >>>> >>>>>> Is it just quiet on this list or have I somehow been kicked off >>>> >>>>>> it >>>> >>>>>> again >>>> >>>>>> >>>> >>>>>> >>>> >>>>>> >>>> >>>>> >>>> >>>>> >>>> >>>>> >>>> >>>>> -- >>>> >>>>> No virus found in this incoming message. >>>> >>>>> Checked by AVG Anti-Virus. >>>> >>>>> Version: 7.0.308 / Virus Database: 266.8.4 - Release Date: >>>> >>>>> 3/27/2005 >>>> >>>>> >>>> >>>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> Interested in visting Croatia? Click on the link below to find out >>>> >>>> about a >>>> >>>> wonderful tour of Croatia! >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> http://www.kollander-travel.com/ >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> Interested in visting Croatia? Click on the link below to find out >>>> >>>> about a wonderful tour of Croatia! >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> http://www.kollander-travel.com/ >>>> >>>> >>>> >>> >>>> >> >>>> > >>>> > >>>> > >>>> > -- >>>> > No virus found in this incoming message. >>>> > Checked by AVG Anti-Virus. >>>> > Version: 7.0.308 / Virus Database: 266.8.4 - Release Date: 3/27/2005 >>>> > >>>> > >>>> >>>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> Interested in visting Croatia? Click on the link below to find out about >>> a wonderful tour of Croatia! >>> >>> http://www.kollander-travel.com/ >>> >>> >>> >>> -- >>> No virus found in this incoming message. >>> Checked by AVG Anti-Virus. >>> Version: 7.0.308 / Virus Database: 266.8.4 - Release Date: 3/27/2005 >>> >>> >> >> >> >> Interested in visting Croatia? Click on the link below to find out about >> a wonderful tour of Croatia! >> >> http://www.kollander-travel.com/ >> >> >> >> -- >> No virus found in this incoming message. >> Checked by AVG Anti-Virus. >> Version: 7.0.308 / Virus Database: 266.8.4 - Release Date: 3/27/2005 >> >> > > > > Interested in visting Croatia? Click on the link below to find out about > a wonderful tour of Croatia! > > http://www.kollander-travel.com/ > > > > -- > No virus found in this incoming message. > Checked by AVG Anti-Virus. > Version: 7.0.308 / Virus Database: 266.9.1 - Release Date: 4/1/2005 > >

Robert, the "Eimprem" may be a DonauSwaben word as I can't find it in my Croatian or Slovenian dictionaries, but it is in my Church cookbooks. I looked in my Croatian "Kuharica" book and they used the German word "Einbrenne". In some of our discussions earlier in the year on the DonauSwaben site, others were talking of Eimprem, so I know it is probably where my Croatian grandmother got the word as she learned to cook most of her dishes from her mother-in-law, in Apatin. Margaret ----- Original Message ----- From: "Robert Jerin" <[email protected]> To: <[email protected]> Sent: Friday, April 01, 2005 5:00 AM Subject: Re: [CROATIA-L] Croatian recipe links > Margaret, > > Aha, I have never heard that term. Evidently it is a German word... roux > = die Einbrenne in German Of course I know about roux as one of my > favorite dishes to make is Jambalya, which begins with a roux ... takes > the better part of a day. Interesting how words are exchanged amongst > peoples... my Grandmother called her homemade cottage cheese Schmierkase > > But even in the Croatian language there are some borrowed words... > > For instance German for bacon is spek, one Croatian word is spek, ham is > shincken in German and sunka in Croatian, polenta is used by many > Croaitans but is an Italian word but the real Croatian word zgonci (not > certain of the spelling) is in Bosnia they call it pule or pure, this is > great with a veal stew over the top.... mmm... > > Here are some links Croatian recipes > > http://www.croatianmall.com/croatia/food/34_croatian_recipes.htm > > http://www.balkanweb.com/kroacia/recipes.htm > > http://www.gourmed.gr/recipes/croatian/?gid=1&nodeid=13 > > http://www.pitt.edu/~slavic/sli/admin/croatcook.html > > http://www.hvar.hr/Default.aspx?tabid=640 > > http://fooddownunder.com/cgi-bin/search.cgi?q=croatian > > http://www.recipesource.com/ethnic/europe/croatian/ > > http://www.croatianmall.com/croatia/food/Index.htm > > Dobar tek! > > Robert > > > > > Jerome Buza <[email protected]> wrote: > Hi Robert, Eimprem or Einbren is what my grandmother called "roux". > Margaret > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Robert Jerin" > To: > Sent: Thursday, March 31, 2005 7:24 PM > Subject: Re: [CROATIA-L] Lamb Roast > > >> Hi Margaret, >> >> Sounds good! >> >> What is Eimprem? >> >> Robert >> >> Jerome Buza wrote: >> Thanks Robert, I will read that page and enjoy it, I am sure. My family >> always made the Sarma with sauerkraut, no tomatoes, and that is the way I >> love it. Of course, there was an Eimprem, too. While living in Turkey, I >> ate their Sarma and it was different,but we grew to love it. Mom just >> boiled the leaves in vinegar water and when I was young, the produce man >> at >> the local A & P store gave my mom the outer leaves. Now, they don't have >> them available. So, growing the cabbages in our garden at our mountain >> cabin in AZ has become our way of having the larger leaves of cabbage to >> use. >> Margaret >> ----- Original Message ----- >> From: "Robert Jerin" >> To: >> Sent: Thursday, March 31, 2005 5:42 AM >> Subject: Re: [CROATIA-L] Lamb Roast >> >> >>> Ahh.... just had some REAL Croatian Sarma at Marie's Restaurant on St >>> Clair in Cleveland. The owners are the family Sabalic from Ljubuski, >>> Hercegovina. REAL sarma must always be made using "soured leaves", which >>> we can purchase at Zagreb Meats on St Clair. If you can not purchase >>> "soured cabbage" then par boiling the leaves in vinegar water may work. >>> For many years I did not like sarma, then I discovered that many (most >>> immigrants I know here in Cleveland) do not add tomatoes, and that is >>> what >>> I did not like! Most here will make a rue and then add paprika and a bit >>> of water to make a delicous sauce to pour over the sarma and mashed >>> potatoes or dumplings. >>> >>> My experience with the (too) many Croatian functions that I attend is >>> that >>> if there are many immigrants the food is authentic and if the majority >>> are >>> American born the food has some resemblance to the authentic stuff but >>> does not come close. >>> >>> Here is a recipe that I have found to my taste from the Embassy web >>> page. >>> >>> http://www.croatiaemb.org/basic_facts/christmas97.htm >>> >>> Robert >>> >>> Karen Heiser wrote: >>> Dear List - I think the "western expansion" did in a lot of our families >>> and >>> traditions. Traveling 30 miles for the family reunion is a lot easier >>> and >>> cheaper than travelling 2500 miles. And then there is the marriage >>> thing...not many of us were able to marry within our ethnicity, so then >>> you >>> have another whole set of traditions to work with. >>> But if you don't stop talking about lamb and sarma, the drooling is >>> going >>> to >>> ruin my keyboard! >>> Karen Heiser >>> Weed, Siskiyou, CA >>> ----- Original Message ----- >>> From: "Jerome Buza" >>> To: >>> Sent: Wednesday, March 30, 2005 9:58 PM >>> Subject: Re: [CROATIA-L] Lamb Roast >>> >>> >>>> Another reason for the demise of many of the family customs is the way >>>> we >>>> travel around and move far away. We try to keep up our family customs >>> even >>>> though we are in AZ and most of the family is in MI or IL. However, >>>> many >>> of >>>> my aunts and uncles married people that were not that interested and >>>> now >>> the >>>> kids aren't either. My generation knows that my mom cooked like Grandma >>> and >>>> that I cook like mom and are asking me for recipes. However, many >>>> didn't >>>> have the traditions followed all their lives like I did with my mother >>>> and >>>> my husband did with his part of the Polish family. Our own daughter has >>>> been living in TX for 20 of her 21 years of married life and doesn't >>> follow >>>> our traditions. Her kids are fussy and wouldn't eat the food anyway. >>>> Margaret >>>> ----- Original Message ----- >>>> From: "al toennies" >>>> To: >>>> Sent: Wednesday, March 30, 2005 4:25 PM >>>> Subject: Re: [CROATIA-L] Lamb Roast >>>> >>>> >>>> > Good question Joy! I think a bunch of siblings (like these folks >>>> > were) >>>> > can keep it together naturally but when they start to fade away and >>>> > you >>>> > are left with cousins and a collection of spouses with family ties of >>>> > their own, you need a catalytic agent of some sort - maybe a person >>>> > or >>>> > a >>>> > group of people that pulls or pushes the different family members >>>> > together. They have to be either loved or feared or so much of a pain >>> it >>>> > the butt that everybody gives in to avoid further hassles. I watched >>>> > my >>>> > mother's Swedish family gatherings wither away after my Grandmother >>> died - >>>> > she was a catalyst of a sort and no one replaced her. >>>> > >>>> > Al in Music City >>>> > ----- Original Message ----- >>>> > >>>> > From: "Joy Durrett" >>>> > To: >>>> > Sent: Wednesday, March 30, 2005 8:57 AM >>>> > Subject: Re: [CROATIA-L] Lamb Roast >>>> > >>>> > >>>> >> Why didn't the next generation keep it going? Sounds like a great >>>> >> way >>> to >>>> >> keep the family together. >>>> >> >>>> >> Joy >>>> >> ----- Original Message ----- >>>> >> From: "al toennies" >>>> >> To: >>>> >> Sent: Wednesday, March 30, 2005 2:52 AM >>>> >> Subject: Re: [CROATIA-L] Lamb Roast >>>> >> >>>> >> >>>> >>> My wife's family (all of Croatian descent) used to have a picnic at >>>> >>> a >>>> >>> summer home in Silver Lake, WI (we were all from Chicago) and >>>> >>> roasted >>> a >>>> >>> whole lamb over charcoal in a 55 gallon drum split lengthwise with >>>> >>> a >>>> >>> home-made turning mechanism >>>> >>> doing all the heavy work. I was never a big fan of lamb but I made >>>> >>> an >>>> >>> exception for that - Most of those folks are gone now but the >>>> >>> memories >>>> >>> remain including the best lamb I have ever eaten. >>>> >>> >>>> >>> Al in Music City >>>> >>> >>>> >>> ----- Original Message ----- >>>> >>> From: "Robert Jerin" >>>> >>> To: >>>> >>> Sent: Tuesday, March 29, 2005 12:44 PM >>>> >>> Subject: Re: [CROATIA-L] Lamb Roast >>>> >>> >>>> >>> >>>> >>>> Nick, >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> I must admit that I roasted just a leg and used my Weber with nice >>> hot >>>> >>>> coals on the side. Pleeeze don't tell any real Croatians about my >>>> >>>> "unorthodox" method of using a Weber! Everyone here loves roast >>>> >>>> lamb >>>> >>>> except the wife. So it was enough for the gang. But IMHO the >>>> >>>> secret >>>> >>>> is selecting the right piece, trimming much of the fact and then >>>> >>>> coating the lamb with olive oil, salt (I use Croatian Podravka >>> Vegeta), >>>> >>>> pepper, fresh chopped garlic and rosemary and let it marinate in >>>> >>>> the >>>> >>>> fridge for a day or more... then setting the piece out about 2 >>>> >>>> hours >>>> >>>> before placing on the grill. Oh the other trick is slow roasting, >>>> >>>> no >>>> >>>> flame, just hot coals and not too close to the coals....mmmm.... >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> It has been several years since our Junior tammie group here in >>>> >>>> Cleveland had a picnic... at that time we would take most of Sat >>>> >>>> afternoon to set up 8 whole lambs and 9 pigs on spits, then season >>> them >>>> >>>> and put them in the cooler for Sun am.. after that we would feast >>>> >>>> on >>>> >>>> gulas that I would make along with salad, some wine and slivovitz >>>> >>>> and >>>> >>>> one of the father's, who has since passed away would play his >>> harmonika >>>> >>>> (accordian) and all the guys would dance to his Bosanac songs! >>>> >>>> What >>> a >>>> >>>> sight! Then at 4 AM on Sunday I would meet my friend Mato Vrbic at >>> the >>>> >>>> picnic center to prepare the fire... then a little coffee with >>>> >>>> slivovitz of course... and about 6AM we would consider the coals >>>> >>>> and >>>> >>>> the brick lined floor hot enough to place the first few pieces on >>>> >>>> the >>>> >>>> spit... then about 11:30 ish the first ones would come off to be >>>> >>>> cut >>>> >>>> and served.... that Sunday would finish up at about 10-11 PM >>>> >>>> making >>>> >>>> sure the center was left in better condition than we found it! >>>> >>>> Lots >>>> >>>> of work but I miss those ! >>>> >>>> days... >>>> >>>> as they brought back memories of my Grandparent's PLASAJ (Mirko >>>> >>>> and >>>> >>>> Mary) and my cousin's BAKALE (Ivan and Johanna)farms in PA and the >>>> >>>> picnics we would have there. But they are all gone now so we try >>>> >>>> to >>>> >>>> carry on some semblance of those traditions..... >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> http://www.podravka.com/en/products/index.php?if=new_products.php >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> Here is a photo that may bring back some memories >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> http://www.members.shaw.ca/rogergou/bast4.jpeg >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> Robert >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> nharamija wrote: >>>> >>>> Robert; Let us see your grille and how you set it up. >>>> >>>> Nick >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> ----- Original Message ----- >>>> >>>> From: "Robert Jerin" >>>> >>>> To: >>>> >>>> Sent: Tuesday, March 29, 2005 11:50 AM >>>> >>>> Subject: Re: [CROATIA-L] Test >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> My wife did those things! I was busy roasting.... lamb! >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> Jerome Buza wrote: >>>> >>>> That's right!!! We were all busy baking and cooking and dying eggs >>> and >>>> >>>> cleaning the house for company. >>>> >>>> Margaret >>>> >>>> ----- Original Message ----- >>>> >>>> From: "dave mothkovich" >>>> >>>> To: >>>> >>>> Sent: Tuesday, March 29, 2005 2:32 AM >>>> >>>> Subject: Re: [CROATIA-L] Test >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>>> Everybody got busy, and then the holiday came, it happens. >>>> >>>>> Christmas >>>> >>>>> was >>>> >>>>> different, everyone had time to chat it up. >>>> >>>>> >>>> >>>>> Dave >>>> >>>>> On Tue, 29 Mar 2005 17:45:41 +0800 "John Stefanac" >>>> >>>>> writes: >>>> >>>>>> Is it just quiet on this list or have I somehow been kicked off >>>> >>>>>> it >>>> >>>>>> again >>>> >>>>>> >>>> >>>>>> >>>> >>>>>> >>>> >>>>> >>>> >>>>> >>>> >>>>> >>>> >>>>> -- >>>> >>>>> No virus found in this incoming message. >>>> >>>>> Checked by AVG Anti-Virus. >>>> >>>>> Version: 7.0.308 / Virus Database: 266.8.4 - Release Date: >>>> >>>>> 3/27/2005 >>>> >>>>> >>>> >>>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> Interested in visting Croatia? Click on the link below to find out >>>> >>>> about a >>>> >>>> wonderful tour of Croatia! >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> http://www.kollander-travel.com/ >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> Interested in visting Croatia? Click on the link below to find out >>>> >>>> about a wonderful tour of Croatia! >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> http://www.kollander-travel.com/ >>>> >>>> >>>> >>> >>>> >> >>>> > >>>> > >>>> > >>>> > -- >>>> > No virus found in this incoming message. >>>> > Checked by AVG Anti-Virus. >>>> > Version: 7.0.308 / Virus Database: 266.8.4 - Release Date: 3/27/2005 >>>> > >>>> > >>>> >>>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> Interested in visting Croatia? Click on the link below to find out about >>> a wonderful tour of Croatia! >>> >>> http://www.kollander-travel.com/ >>> >>> >>> >>> -- >>> No virus found in this incoming message. >>> Checked by AVG Anti-Virus. >>> Version: 7.0.308 / Virus Database: 266.8.4 - Release Date: 3/27/2005 >>> >>> >> >> >> >> Interested in visting Croatia? Click on the link below to find out about >> a wonderful tour of Croatia! >> >> http://www.kollander-travel.com/ >> >> >> >> -- >> No virus found in this incoming message. >> Checked by AVG Anti-Virus. >> Version: 7.0.308 / Virus Database: 266.8.4 - Release Date: 3/27/2005 >> >> > > > > Interested in visting Croatia? Click on the link below to find out about > a wonderful tour of Croatia! > > http://www.kollander-travel.com/ > > > > -- > No virus found in this incoming message. > Checked by AVG Anti-Virus. > Version: 7.0.308 / Virus Database: 266.9.1 - Release Date: 4/1/2005 > >

Isn't that sour cream?? ----- Original Message ----- From: "nharamija" <[email protected]> To: <[email protected]> Sent: Friday, April 01, 2005 6:08 AM Subject: Re: [CROATIA-L] Lamb Roast > Pray tell What Is "Smetana"? > Nick > > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Robert Jerin" <[email protected]> > To: <[email protected]> > Sent: Thursday, March 31, 2005 9:24 PM > Subject: Re: [CROATIA-L] Lamb Roast > > > > > > -- > No virus found in this incoming message. > Checked by AVG Anti-Virus. > Version: 7.0.308 / Virus Database: 266.9.1 - Release Date: 4/1/2005 > >

That is what my mom always said, that the Polish used tomatoes in their Sarma. Of course, when you read many cookbooks of different cultures, you see Stuffed Cabbage with tomatoes. I have over 400 cookbooks and many cooking magazines. I prefer to read cookbooks over romance novels. Margaret ----- Original Message ----- From: "Donald Marinkovich" <[email protected]> To: <[email protected]> Sent: Friday, April 01, 2005 7:43 AM Subject: Re: [CROATIA-L] Croatian recipe links > In our neighborhood if sarmas had any kind of tomatoe in them we thought > they were Polish or Galician. I think they were called holupka or > helupchi. > Don > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Robert Jerin" <[email protected]> > To: <[email protected]> > Sent: Friday, April 01, 2005 6:00 AM > Subject: Re: [CROATIA-L] Croatian recipe links > > >> Margaret, >> >> Aha, I have never heard that term. Evidently it is a German word... roux >> = die Einbrenne in German Of course I know about roux as one of my >> favorite dishes to make is Jambalya, which begins with a roux ... takes >> the better part of a day. Interesting how words are exchanged amongst >> peoples... my Grandmother called her homemade cottage cheese Schmierkase >> >> But even in the Croatian language there are some borrowed words... >> >> For instance German for bacon is spek, one Croatian word is spek, ham is >> shincken in German and sunka in Croatian, polenta is used by many >> Croaitans but is an Italian word but the real Croatian word zgonci (not >> certain of the spelling) is in Bosnia they call it pule or pure, this is >> great with a veal stew over the top.... mmm... >> >> Here are some links Croatian recipes >> >> http://www.croatianmall.com/croatia/food/34_croatian_recipes.htm >> >> http://www.balkanweb.com/kroacia/recipes.htm >> >> http://www.gourmed.gr/recipes/croatian/?gid=1&nodeid=13 >> >> http://www.pitt.edu/~slavic/sli/admin/croatcook.html >> >> http://www.hvar.hr/Default.aspx?tabid=640 >> >> http://fooddownunder.com/cgi-bin/search.cgi?q=croatian >> >> http://www.recipesource.com/ethnic/europe/croatian/ >> >> http://www.croatianmall.com/croatia/food/Index.htm >> >> Dobar tek! >> >> Robert >> >> >> >> >> Jerome Buza <[email protected]> wrote: >> Hi Robert, Eimprem or Einbren is what my grandmother called "roux". >> Margaret >> ----- Original Message ----- >> From: "Robert Jerin" >> To: >> Sent: Thursday, March 31, 2005 7:24 PM >> Subject: Re: [CROATIA-L] Lamb Roast >> >> >>> Hi Margaret, >>> >>> Sounds good! >>> >>> What is Eimprem? >>> >>> Robert >>> >>> Jerome Buza wrote: >>> Thanks Robert, I will read that page and enjoy it, I am sure. My family >>> always made the Sarma with sauerkraut, no tomatoes, and that is the way >>> I >>> love it. Of course, there was an Eimprem, too. While living in Turkey, I >>> ate their Sarma and it was different,but we grew to love it. Mom just >>> boiled the leaves in vinegar water and when I was young, the produce man >>> at >>> the local A & P store gave my mom the outer leaves. Now, they don't have >>> them available. So, growing the cabbages in our garden at our mountain >>> cabin in AZ has become our way of having the larger leaves of cabbage to >>> use. >>> Margaret >>> ----- Original Message ----- >>> From: "Robert Jerin" >>> To: >>> Sent: Thursday, March 31, 2005 5:42 AM >>> Subject: Re: [CROATIA-L] Lamb Roast >>> >>> >>>> Ahh.... just had some REAL Croatian Sarma at Marie's Restaurant on St >>>> Clair in Cleveland. The owners are the family Sabalic from Ljubuski, >>>> Hercegovina. REAL sarma must always be made using "soured leaves", >>>> which >>>> we can purchase at Zagreb Meats on St Clair. If you can not purchase >>>> "soured cabbage" then par boiling the leaves in vinegar water may work. >>>> For many years I did not like sarma, then I discovered that many (most >>>> immigrants I know here in Cleveland) do not add tomatoes, and that is >>>> what >>>> I did not like! Most here will make a rue and then add paprika and a >>>> bit >>>> of water to make a delicous sauce to pour over the sarma and mashed >>>> potatoes or dumplings. >>>> >>>> My experience with the (too) many Croatian functions that I attend is >>>> that >>>> if there are many immigrants the food is authentic and if the majority >>>> are >>>> American born the food has some resemblance to the authentic stuff but >>>> does not come close. >>>> >>>> Here is a recipe that I have found to my taste from the Embassy web >>>> page. >>>> >>>> http://www.croatiaemb.org/basic_facts/christmas97.htm >>>> >>>> Robert >>>> >>>> Karen Heiser wrote: >>>> Dear List - I think the "western expansion" did in a lot of our >>>> families >>>> and >>>> traditions. Traveling 30 miles for the family reunion is a lot easier >>>> and >>>> cheaper than travelling 2500 miles. And then there is the marriage >>>> thing...not many of us were able to marry within our ethnicity, so then >>>> you >>>> have another whole set of traditions to work with. >>>> But if you don't stop talking about lamb and sarma, the drooling is >>>> going >>>> to >>>> ruin my keyboard! >>>> Karen Heiser >>>> Weed, Siskiyou, CA >>>> ----- Original Message ----- >>>> From: "Jerome Buza" >>>> To: >>>> Sent: Wednesday, March 30, 2005 9:58 PM >>>> Subject: Re: [CROATIA-L] Lamb Roast >>>> >>>> >>>>> Another reason for the demise of many of the family customs is the way >>>>> we >>>>> travel around and move far away. We try to keep up our family customs >>>> even >>>>> though we are in AZ and most of the family is in MI or IL. However, >>>>> many >>>> of >>>>> my aunts and uncles married people that were not that interested and >>>>> now >>>> the >>>>> kids aren't either. My generation knows that my mom cooked like >>>>> Grandma >>>> and >>>>> that I cook like mom and are asking me for recipes. However, many >>>>> didn't >>>>> have the traditions followed all their lives like I did with my mother >>>>> and >>>>> my husband did with his part of the Polish family. Our own daughter >>>>> has >>>>> been living in TX for 20 of her 21 years of married life and doesn't >>>> follow >>>>> our traditions. Her kids are fussy and wouldn't eat the food anyway. >>>>> Margaret >>>>> ----- Original Message ----- >>>>> From: "al toennies" >>>>> To: >>>>> Sent: Wednesday, March 30, 2005 4:25 PM >>>>> Subject: Re: [CROATIA-L] Lamb Roast >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> > Good question Joy! I think a bunch of siblings (like these folks >>>>> > were) >>>>> > can keep it together naturally but when they start to fade away and >>>>> > you >>>>> > are left with cousins and a collection of spouses with family ties >>>>> > of >>>>> > their own, you need a catalytic agent of some sort - maybe a person >>>>> > or >>>>> > a >>>>> > group of people that pulls or pushes the different family members >>>>> > together. They have to be either loved or feared or so much of a >>>>> > pain >>>> it >>>>> > the butt that everybody gives in to avoid further hassles. I watched >>>>> > my >>>>> > mother's Swedish family gatherings wither away after my Grandmother >>>> died - >>>>> > she was a catalyst of a sort and no one replaced her. >>>>> > >>>>> > Al in Music City >>>>> > ----- Original Message ----- >>>>> > >>>>> > From: "Joy Durrett" >>>>> > To: >>>>> > Sent: Wednesday, March 30, 2005 8:57 AM >>>>> > Subject: Re: [CROATIA-L] Lamb Roast >>>>> > >>>>> > >>>>> >> Why didn't the next generation keep it going? Sounds like a great >>>>> >> way >>>> to >>>>> >> keep the family together. >>>>> >> >>>>> >> Joy >>>>> >> ----- Original Message ----- >>>>> >> From: "al toennies" >>>>> >> To: >>>>> >> Sent: Wednesday, March 30, 2005 2:52 AM >>>>> >> Subject: Re: [CROATIA-L] Lamb Roast >>>>> >> >>>>> >> >>>>> >>> My wife's family (all of Croatian descent) used to have a picnic >>>>> >>> at >>>>> >>> a >>>>> >>> summer home in Silver Lake, WI (we were all from Chicago) and >>>>> >>> roasted >>>> a >>>>> >>> whole lamb over charcoal in a 55 gallon drum split lengthwise with >>>>> >>> a >>>>> >>> home-made turning mechanism >>>>> >>> doing all the heavy work. I was never a big fan of lamb but I made >>>>> >>> an >>>>> >>> exception for that - Most of those folks are gone now but the >>>>> >>> memories >>>>> >>> remain including the best lamb I have ever eaten. >>>>> >>> >>>>> >>> Al in Music City >>>>> >>> >>>>> >>> ----- Original Message ----- >>>>> >>> From: "Robert Jerin" >>>>> >>> To: >>>>> >>> Sent: Tuesday, March 29, 2005 12:44 PM >>>>> >>> Subject: Re: [CROATIA-L] Lamb Roast >>>>> >>> >>>>> >>> >>>>> >>>> Nick, >>>>> >>>> >>>>> >>>> I must admit that I roasted just a leg and used my Weber with >>>>> >>>> nice >>>> hot >>>>> >>>> coals on the side. Pleeeze don't tell any real Croatians about my >>>>> >>>> "unorthodox" method of using a Weber! Everyone here loves roast >>>>> >>>> lamb >>>>> >>>> except the wife. So it was enough for the gang. But IMHO the >>>>> >>>> secret >>>>> >>>> is selecting the right piece, trimming much of the fact and then >>>>> >>>> coating the lamb with olive oil, salt (I use Croatian Podravka >>>> Vegeta), >>>>> >>>> pepper, fresh chopped garlic and rosemary and let it marinate in >>>>> >>>> the >>>>> >>>> fridge for a day or more... then setting the piece out about 2 >>>>> >>>> hours >>>>> >>>> before placing on the grill. Oh the other trick is slow roasting, >>>>> >>>> no >>>>> >>>> flame, just hot coals and not too close to the coals....mmmm.... >>>>> >>>> >>>>> >>>> It has been several years since our Junior tammie group here in >>>>> >>>> Cleveland had a picnic... at that time we would take most of Sat >>>>> >>>> afternoon to set up 8 whole lambs and 9 pigs on spits, then >>>>> >>>> season >>>> them >>>>> >>>> and put them in the cooler for Sun am.. after that we would feast >>>>> >>>> on >>>>> >>>> gulas that I would make along with salad, some wine and slivovitz >>>>> >>>> and >>>>> >>>> one of the father's, who has since passed away would play his >>>> harmonika >>>>> >>>> (accordian) and all the guys would dance to his Bosanac songs! >>>>> >>>> What >>>> a >>>>> >>>> sight! Then at 4 AM on Sunday I would meet my friend Mato Vrbic >>>>> >>>> at >>>> the >>>>> >>>> picnic center to prepare the fire... then a little coffee with >>>>> >>>> slivovitz of course... and about 6AM we would consider the coals >>>>> >>>> and >>>>> >>>> the brick lined floor hot enough to place the first few pieces on >>>>> >>>> the >>>>> >>>> spit... then about 11:30 ish the first ones would come off to be >>>>> >>>> cut >>>>> >>>> and served.... that Sunday would finish up at about 10-11 PM >>>>> >>>> making >>>>> >>>> sure the center was left in better condition than we found it! >>>>> >>>> Lots >>>>> >>>> of work but I miss those ! >>>>> >>>> days... >>>>> >>>> as they brought back memories of my Grandparent's PLASAJ (Mirko >>>>> >>>> and >>>>> >>>> Mary) and my cousin's BAKALE (Ivan and Johanna)farms in PA and >>>>> >>>> the >>>>> >>>> picnics we would have there. But they are all gone now so we try >>>>> >>>> to >>>>> >>>> carry on some semblance of those traditions..... >>>>> >>>> >>>>> >>>> http://www.podravka.com/en/products/index.php?if=new_products.php >>>>> >>>> >>>>> >>>> Here is a photo that may bring back some memories >>>>> >>>> >>>>> >>>> http://www.members.shaw.ca/rogergou/bast4.jpeg >>>>> >>>> >>>>> >>>> Robert >>>>> >>>> >>>>> >>>> nharamija wrote: >>>>> >>>> Robert; Let us see your grille and how you set it up. >>>>> >>>> Nick >>>>> >>>> >>>>> >>>> ----- Original Message ----- >>>>> >>>> From: "Robert Jerin" >>>>> >>>> To: >>>>> >>>> Sent: Tuesday, March 29, 2005 11:50 AM >>>>> >>>> Subject: Re: [CROATIA-L] Test >>>>> >>>> >>>>> >>>> >>>>> >>>> My wife did those things! I was busy roasting.... lamb! >>>>> >>>> >>>>> >>>> >>>>> >>>> >>>>> >>>> Jerome Buza wrote: >>>>> >>>> That's right!!! We were all busy baking and cooking and dying >>>>> >>>> eggs >>>> and >>>>> >>>> cleaning the house for company. >>>>> >>>> Margaret >>>>> >>>> ----- Original Message ----- >>>>> >>>> From: "dave mothkovich" >>>>> >>>> To: >>>>> >>>> Sent: Tuesday, March 29, 2005 2:32 AM >>>>> >>>> Subject: Re: [CROATIA-L] Test >>>>> >>>> >>>>> >>>> >>>>> >>>>> Everybody got busy, and then the holiday came, it happens. >>>>> >>>>> Christmas >>>>> >>>>> was >>>>> >>>>> different, everyone had time to chat it up. >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> Dave >>>>> >>>>> On Tue, 29 Mar 2005 17:45:41 +0800 "John Stefanac" >>>>> >>>>> writes: >>>>> >>>>>> Is it just quiet on this list or have I somehow been kicked off >>>>> >>>>>> it >>>>> >>>>>> again >>>>> >>>>>> >>>>> >>>>>> >>>>> >>>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> -- >>>>> >>>>> No virus found in this incoming message. >>>>> >>>>> Checked by AVG Anti-Virus. >>>>> >>>>> Version: 7.0.308 / Virus Database: 266.8.4 - Release Date: >>>>> >>>>> 3/27/2005 >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>> >>>>> >>>> >>>>> >>>> >>>>> >>>> Interested in visting Croatia? Click on the link below to find >>>>> >>>> out >>>>> >>>> about a >>>>> >>>> wonderful tour of Croatia! >>>>> >>>> >>>>> >>>> http://www.kollander-travel.com/ >>>>> >>>> >>>>> >>>> >>>>> >>>> >>>>> >>>> >>>>> >>>> >>>>> >>>> Interested in visting Croatia? Click on the link below to find >>>>> >>>> out >>>>> >>>> about a wonderful tour of Croatia! >>>>> >>>> >>>>> >>>> http://www.kollander-travel.com/ >>>>> >>>> >>>>> >>> >>>>> >> >>>>> > >>>>> > >>>>> > >>>>> > -- >>>>> > No virus found in this incoming message. >>>>> > Checked by AVG Anti-Virus. >>>>> > Version: 7.0.308 / Virus Database: 266.8.4 - Release Date: 3/27/2005 >>>>> > >>>>> > >>>>> >>>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> Interested in visting Croatia? Click on the link below to find out >>>> about >>>> a wonderful tour of Croatia! >>>> >>>> http://www.kollander-travel.com/ >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> -- >>>> No virus found in this incoming message. >>>> Checked by AVG Anti-Virus. >>>> Version: 7.0.308 / Virus Database: 266.8.4 - Release Date: 3/27/2005 >>>> >>>> >>> >>> >>> >>> Interested in visting Croatia? Click on the link below to find out about >>> a wonderful tour of Croatia! >>> >>> http://www.kollander-travel.com/ >>> >>> >>> >>> -- >>> No virus found in this incoming message. >>> Checked by AVG Anti-Virus. >>> Version: 7.0.308 / Virus Database: 266.8.4 - Release Date: 3/27/2005 >>> >>> >> >> >> >> Interested in visting Croatia? Click on the link below to find out about >> a wonderful tour of Croatia! >> >> http://www.kollander-travel.com/ >> >> > > > > > -- > No virus found in this incoming message. > Checked by AVG Anti-Virus. > Version: 7.0.308 / Virus Database: 266.9.1 - Release Date: 4/1/2005 > >

I have made the beef and onion sauce before, and even my 4 year old nephew loved it. Now that my kids are older, they actually enjoy Croatian/ Iron Range food more, because it's all made from scratch. When I first started making it, they used to look at me with a "why don't you love us anymore" look in their eyes. -----Original Message----- From: Robert Jerin [mailto:[email protected]] Sent: Friday, April 01, 2005 6:01 AM To: [email protected] Subject: Re: [CROATIA-L] Croatian recipe links Margaret, Aha, I have never heard that term. Evidently it is a German word... roux = die Einbrenne in German Of course I know about roux as one of my favorite dishes to make is Jambalya, which begins with a roux ... takes the better part of a day. Interesting how words are exchanged amongst peoples... my Grandmother called her homemade cottage cheese Schmierkase But even in the Croatian language there are some borrowed words... For instance German for bacon is spek, one Croatian word is spek, ham is shincken in German and sunka in Croatian, polenta is used by many Croaitans but is an Italian word but the real Croatian word zgonci (not certain of the spelling) is in Bosnia they call it pule or pure, this is great with a veal stew over the top.... mmm... Here are some links Croatian recipes http://www.croatianmall.com/croatia/food/34_croatian_recipes.htm http://www.balkanweb.com/kroacia/recipes.htm http://www.gourmed.gr/recipes/croatian/?gid=1&nodeid=13 http://www.pitt.edu/~slavic/sli/admin/croatcook.html http://www.hvar.hr/Default.aspx?tabid=640 http://fooddownunder.com/cgi-bin/search.cgi?q=croatian http://www.recipesource.com/ethnic/europe/croatian/ http://www.croatianmall.com/croatia/food/Index.htm Dobar tek! Robert Jerome Buza <[email protected]> wrote: Hi Robert, Eimprem or Einbren is what my grandmother called "roux". Margaret ----- Original Message ----- From: "Robert Jerin" To: Sent: Thursday, March 31, 2005 7:24 PM Subject: Re: [CROATIA-L] Lamb Roast > Hi Margaret, > > Sounds good! > > What is Eimprem? > > Robert > > Jerome Buza wrote: > Thanks Robert, I will read that page and enjoy it, I am sure. My family > always made the Sarma with sauerkraut, no tomatoes, and that is the way I > love it. Of course, there was an Eimprem, too. While living in Turkey, I > ate their Sarma and it was different,but we grew to love it. Mom just > boiled the leaves in vinegar water and when I was young, the produce man > at > the local A & P store gave my mom the outer leaves. Now, they don't have > them available. So, growing the cabbages in our garden at our mountain > cabin in AZ has become our way of having the larger leaves of cabbage to > use. > Margaret > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Robert Jerin" > To: > Sent: Thursday, March 31, 2005 5:42 AM > Subject: Re: [CROATIA-L] Lamb Roast > > >> Ahh.... just had some REAL Croatian Sarma at Marie's Restaurant on St >> Clair in Cleveland. The owners are the family Sabalic from Ljubuski, >> Hercegovina. REAL sarma must always be made using "soured leaves", which >> we can purchase at Zagreb Meats on St Clair. If you can not purchase >> "soured cabbage" then par boiling the leaves in vinegar water may work. >> For many years I did not like sarma, then I discovered that many (most >> immigrants I know here in Cleveland) do not add tomatoes, and that is >> what >> I did not like! Most here will make a rue and then add paprika and a bit >> of water to make a delicous sauce to pour over the sarma and mashed >> potatoes or dumplings. >> >> My experience with the (too) many Croatian functions that I attend is >> that >> if there are many immigrants the food is authentic and if the majority >> are >> American born the food has some resemblance to the authentic stuff but >> does not come close. >> >> Here is a recipe that I have found to my taste from the Embassy web page. >> >> http://www.croatiaemb.org/basic_facts/christmas97.htm >> >> Robert >> >> Karen Heiser wrote: >> Dear List - I think the "western expansion" did in a lot of our families >> and >> traditions. Traveling 30 miles for the family reunion is a lot easier and >> cheaper than travelling 2500 miles. And then there is the marriage >> thing...not many of us were able to marry within our ethnicity, so then >> you >> have another whole set of traditions to work with. >> But if you don't stop talking about lamb and sarma, the drooling is going >> to >> ruin my keyboard! >> Karen Heiser >> Weed, Siskiyou, CA >> ----- Original Message ----- >> From: "Jerome Buza" >> To: >> Sent: Wednesday, March 30, 2005 9:58 PM >> Subject: Re: [CROATIA-L] Lamb Roast >> >> >>> Another reason for the demise of many of the family customs is the way >>> we >>> travel around and move far away. We try to keep up our family customs >> even >>> though we are in AZ and most of the family is in MI or IL. However, many >> of >>> my aunts and uncles married people that were not that interested and now >> the >>> kids aren't either. My generation knows that my mom cooked like Grandma >> and >>> that I cook like mom and are asking me for recipes. However, many didn't >>> have the traditions followed all their lives like I did with my mother >>> and >>> my husband did with his part of the Polish family. Our own daughter has >>> been living in TX for 20 of her 21 years of married life and doesn't >> follow >>> our traditions. Her kids are fussy and wouldn't eat the food anyway. >>> Margaret >>> ----- Original Message ----- >>> From: "al toennies" >>> To: >>> Sent: Wednesday, March 30, 2005 4:25 PM >>> Subject: Re: [CROATIA-L] Lamb Roast >>> >>> >>> > Good question Joy! I think a bunch of siblings (like these folks were) >>> > can keep it together naturally but when they start to fade away and >>> > you >>> > are left with cousins and a collection of spouses with family ties of >>> > their own, you need a catalytic agent of some sort - maybe a person or >>> > a >>> > group of people that pulls or pushes the different family members >>> > together. They have to be either loved or feared or so much of a pain >> it >>> > the butt that everybody gives in to avoid further hassles. I watched >>> > my >>> > mother's Swedish family gatherings wither away after my Grandmother >> died - >>> > she was a catalyst of a sort and no one replaced her. >>> > >>> > Al in Music City >>> > ----- Original Message ----- >>> > >>> > From: "Joy Durrett" >>> > To: >>> > Sent: Wednesday, March 30, 2005 8:57 AM >>> > Subject: Re: [CROATIA-L] Lamb Roast >>> > >>> > >>> >> Why didn't the next generation keep it going? Sounds like a great way >> to >>> >> keep the family together. >>> >> >>> >> Joy >>> >> ----- Original Message ----- >>> >> From: "al toennies" >>> >> To: >>> >> Sent: Wednesday, March 30, 2005 2:52 AM >>> >> Subject: Re: [CROATIA-L] Lamb Roast >>> >> >>> >> >>> >>> My wife's family (all of Croatian descent) used to have a picnic at >>> >>> a >>> >>> summer home in Silver Lake, WI (we were all from Chicago) and >>> >>> roasted >> a >>> >>> whole lamb over charcoal in a 55 gallon drum split lengthwise with a >>> >>> home-made turning mechanism >>> >>> doing all the heavy work. I was never a big fan of lamb but I made >>> >>> an >>> >>> exception for that - Most of those folks are gone now but the >>> >>> memories >>> >>> remain including the best lamb I have ever eaten. >>> >>> >>> >>> Al in Music City >>> >>> >>> >>> ----- Original Message ----- >>> >>> From: "Robert Jerin" >>> >>> To: >>> >>> Sent: Tuesday, March 29, 2005 12:44 PM >>> >>> Subject: Re: [CROATIA-L] Lamb Roast >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>>> Nick, >>> >>>> >>> >>>> I must admit that I roasted just a leg and used my Weber with nice >> hot >>> >>>> coals on the side. Pleeeze don't tell any real Croatians about my >>> >>>> "unorthodox" method of using a Weber! Everyone here loves roast >>> >>>> lamb >>> >>>> except the wife. So it was enough for the gang. But IMHO the secret >>> >>>> is selecting the right piece, trimming much of the fact and then >>> >>>> coating the lamb with olive oil, salt (I use Croatian Podravka >> Vegeta), >>> >>>> pepper, fresh chopped garlic and rosemary and let it marinate in >>> >>>> the >>> >>>> fridge for a day or more... then setting the piece out about 2 >>> >>>> hours >>> >>>> before placing on the grill. Oh the other trick is slow roasting, >>> >>>> no >>> >>>> flame, just hot coals and not too close to the coals....mmmm.... >>> >>>> >>> >>>> It has been several years since our Junior tammie group here in >>> >>>> Cleveland had a picnic... at that time we would take most of Sat >>> >>>> afternoon to set up 8 whole lambs and 9 pigs on spits, then season >> them >>> >>>> and put them in the cooler for Sun am.. after that we would feast >>> >>>> on >>> >>>> gulas that I would make along with salad, some wine and slivovitz >>> >>>> and >>> >>>> one of the father's, who has since passed away would play his >> harmonika >>> >>>> (accordian) and all the guys would dance to his Bosanac songs! What >> a >>> >>>> sight! Then at 4 AM on Sunday I would meet my friend Mato Vrbic at >> the >>> >>>> picnic center to prepare the fire... then a little coffee with >>> >>>> slivovitz of course... and about 6AM we would consider the coals >>> >>>> and >>> >>>> the brick lined floor hot enough to place the first few pieces on >>> >>>> the >>> >>>> spit... then about 11:30 ish the first ones would come off to be >>> >>>> cut >>> >>>> and served.... that Sunday would finish up at about 10-11 PM making >>> >>>> sure the center was left in better condition than we found it! Lots >>> >>>> of work but I miss those ! >>> >>>> days... >>> >>>> as they brought back memories of my Grandparent's PLASAJ (Mirko and >>> >>>> Mary) and my cousin's BAKALE (Ivan and Johanna)farms in PA and the >>> >>>> picnics we would have there. But they are all gone now so we try to >>> >>>> carry on some semblance of those traditions..... >>> >>>> >>> >>>> http://www.podravka.com/en/products/index.php?if=new_products.php >>> >>>> >>> >>>> Here is a photo that may bring back some memories >>> >>>> >>> >>>> http://www.members.shaw.ca/rogergou/bast4.jpeg >>> >>>> >>> >>>> Robert >>> >>>> >>> >>>> nharamija wrote: >>> >>>> Robert; Let us see your grille and how you set it up. >>> >>>> Nick >>> >>>> >>> >>>> ----- Original Message ----- >>> >>>> From: "Robert Jerin" >>> >>>> To: >>> >>>> Sent: Tuesday, March 29, 2005 11:50 AM >>> >>>> Subject: Re: [CROATIA-L] Test >>> >>>> >>> >>>> >>> >>>> My wife did those things! I was busy roasting.... lamb! >>> >>>> >>> >>>> >>> >>>> >>> >>>> Jerome Buza wrote: >>> >>>> That's right!!! We were all busy baking and cooking and dying eggs >> and >>> >>>> cleaning the house for company. >>> >>>> Margaret >>> >>>> ----- Original Message ----- >>> >>>> From: "dave mothkovich" >>> >>>> To: >>> >>>> Sent: Tuesday, March 29, 2005 2:32 AM >>> >>>> Subject: Re: [CROATIA-L] Test >>> >>>> >>> >>>> >>> >>>>> Everybody got busy, and then the holiday came, it happens. >>> >>>>> Christmas >>> >>>>> was >>> >>>>> different, everyone had time to chat it up. >>> >>>>> >>> >>>>> Dave >>> >>>>> On Tue, 29 Mar 2005 17:45:41 +0800 "John Stefanac" >>> >>>>> writes: >>> >>>>>> Is it just quiet on this list or have I somehow been kicked off >>> >>>>>> it >>> >>>>>> again >>> >>>>>> >>> >>>>>> >>> >>>>>> >>> >>>>> >>> >>>>> >>> >>>>> >>> >>>>> -- >>> >>>>> No virus found in this incoming message. >>> >>>>> Checked by AVG Anti-Virus. >>> >>>>> Version: 7.0.308 / Virus Database: 266.8.4 - Release Date: >>> >>>>> 3/27/2005 >>> >>>>> >>> >>>>> >>> >>>> >>> >>>> >>> >>>> >>> >>>> Interested in visting Croatia? Click on the link below to find out >>> >>>> about a >>> >>>> wonderful tour of Croatia! >>> >>>> >>> >>>> http://www.kollander-travel.com/ >>> >>>> >>> >>>> >>> >>>> >>> >>>> >>> >>>> >>> >>>> Interested in visting Croatia? Click on the link below to find out >>> >>>> about a wonderful tour of Croatia! >>> >>>> >>> >>>> http://www.kollander-travel.com/ >>> >>>> >>> >>> >>> >> >>> > >>> > >>> > >>> > -- >>> > No virus found in this incoming message. >>> > Checked by AVG Anti-Virus. >>> > Version: 7.0.308 / Virus Database: 266.8.4 - Release Date: 3/27/2005 >>> > >>> > >>> >>> >> >> >> >> >> Interested in visting Croatia? Click on the link below to find out about >> a wonderful tour of Croatia! >> >> http://www.kollander-travel.com/ >> >> >> >> -- >> No virus found in this incoming message. >> Checked by AVG Anti-Virus. >> Version: 7.0.308 / Virus Database: 266.8.4 - Release Date: 3/27/2005 >> >> > > > > Interested in visting Croatia? Click on the link below to find out about > a wonderful tour of Croatia! > > http://www.kollander-travel.com/ > > > > -- > No virus found in this incoming message. > Checked by AVG Anti-Virus. > Version: 7.0.308 / Virus Database: 266.8.4 - Release Date: 3/27/2005 > > Interested in visting Croatia? Click on the link below to find out about a wonderful tour of Croatia! http://www.kollander-travel.com/ ________________________________________________________________________ This email has been scanned for all viruses by the MessageLabs SkyScan service. For more information on a proactive anti-virus service working around the clock, around the globe, visit www.messagelabs.com. ________________________________________________________________________ ________________________________________________________________________ This email has been scanned for all viruses by the MessageLabs SkyScan service. 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In our neighborhood if sarmas had any kind of tomatoe in them we thought they were Polish or Galician. I think they were called holupka or helupchi. Don ----- Original Message ----- From: "Robert Jerin" <[email protected]> To: <[email protected]> Sent: Friday, April 01, 2005 6:00 AM Subject: Re: [CROATIA-L] Croatian recipe links > Margaret, > > Aha, I have never heard that term. Evidently it is a German word... roux > = die Einbrenne in German Of course I know about roux as one of my > favorite dishes to make is Jambalya, which begins with a roux ... takes > the better part of a day. Interesting how words are exchanged amongst > peoples... my Grandmother called her homemade cottage cheese Schmierkase > > But even in the Croatian language there are some borrowed words... > > For instance German for bacon is spek, one Croatian word is spek, ham is > shincken in German and sunka in Croatian, polenta is used by many > Croaitans but is an Italian word but the real Croatian word zgonci (not > certain of the spelling) is in Bosnia they call it pule or pure, this is > great with a veal stew over the top.... mmm... > > Here are some links Croatian recipes > > http://www.croatianmall.com/croatia/food/34_croatian_recipes.htm > > http://www.balkanweb.com/kroacia/recipes.htm > > http://www.gourmed.gr/recipes/croatian/?gid=1&nodeid=13 > > http://www.pitt.edu/~slavic/sli/admin/croatcook.html > > http://www.hvar.hr/Default.aspx?tabid=640 > > http://fooddownunder.com/cgi-bin/search.cgi?q=croatian > > http://www.recipesource.com/ethnic/europe/croatian/ > > http://www.croatianmall.com/croatia/food/Index.htm > > Dobar tek! > > Robert > > > > > Jerome Buza <[email protected]> wrote: > Hi Robert, Eimprem or Einbren is what my grandmother called "roux". > Margaret > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Robert Jerin" > To: > Sent: Thursday, March 31, 2005 7:24 PM > Subject: Re: [CROATIA-L] Lamb Roast > > >> Hi Margaret, >> >> Sounds good! >> >> What is Eimprem? >> >> Robert >> >> Jerome Buza wrote: >> Thanks Robert, I will read that page and enjoy it, I am sure. My family >> always made the Sarma with sauerkraut, no tomatoes, and that is the way I >> love it. Of course, there was an Eimprem, too. While living in Turkey, I >> ate their Sarma and it was different,but we grew to love it. Mom just >> boiled the leaves in vinegar water and when I was young, the produce man >> at >> the local A & P store gave my mom the outer leaves. Now, they don't have >> them available. So, growing the cabbages in our garden at our mountain >> cabin in AZ has become our way of having the larger leaves of cabbage to >> use. >> Margaret >> ----- Original Message ----- >> From: "Robert Jerin" >> To: >> Sent: Thursday, March 31, 2005 5:42 AM >> Subject: Re: [CROATIA-L] Lamb Roast >> >> >>> Ahh.... just had some REAL Croatian Sarma at Marie's Restaurant on St >>> Clair in Cleveland. The owners are the family Sabalic from Ljubuski, >>> Hercegovina. REAL sarma must always be made using "soured leaves", which >>> we can purchase at Zagreb Meats on St Clair. If you can not purchase >>> "soured cabbage" then par boiling the leaves in vinegar water may work. >>> For many years I did not like sarma, then I discovered that many (most >>> immigrants I know here in Cleveland) do not add tomatoes, and that is >>> what >>> I did not like! Most here will make a rue and then add paprika and a bit >>> of water to make a delicous sauce to pour over the sarma and mashed >>> potatoes or dumplings. >>> >>> My experience with the (too) many Croatian functions that I attend is >>> that >>> if there are many immigrants the food is authentic and if the majority >>> are >>> American born the food has some resemblance to the authentic stuff but >>> does not come close. >>> >>> Here is a recipe that I have found to my taste from the Embassy web >>> page. >>> >>> http://www.croatiaemb.org/basic_facts/christmas97.htm >>> >>> Robert >>> >>> Karen Heiser wrote: >>> Dear List - I think the "western expansion" did in a lot of our families >>> and >>> traditions. Traveling 30 miles for the family reunion is a lot easier >>> and >>> cheaper than travelling 2500 miles. And then there is the marriage >>> thing...not many of us were able to marry within our ethnicity, so then >>> you >>> have another whole set of traditions to work with. >>> But if you don't stop talking about lamb and sarma, the drooling is >>> going >>> to >>> ruin my keyboard! >>> Karen Heiser >>> Weed, Siskiyou, CA >>> ----- Original Message ----- >>> From: "Jerome Buza" >>> To: >>> Sent: Wednesday, March 30, 2005 9:58 PM >>> Subject: Re: [CROATIA-L] Lamb Roast >>> >>> >>>> Another reason for the demise of many of the family customs is the way >>>> we >>>> travel around and move far away. We try to keep up our family customs >>> even >>>> though we are in AZ and most of the family is in MI or IL. However, >>>> many >>> of >>>> my aunts and uncles married people that were not that interested and >>>> now >>> the >>>> kids aren't either. My generation knows that my mom cooked like Grandma >>> and >>>> that I cook like mom and are asking me for recipes. However, many >>>> didn't >>>> have the traditions followed all their lives like I did with my mother >>>> and >>>> my husband did with his part of the Polish family. Our own daughter has >>>> been living in TX for 20 of her 21 years of married life and doesn't >>> follow >>>> our traditions. Her kids are fussy and wouldn't eat the food anyway. >>>> Margaret >>>> ----- Original Message ----- >>>> From: "al toennies" >>>> To: >>>> Sent: Wednesday, March 30, 2005 4:25 PM >>>> Subject: Re: [CROATIA-L] Lamb Roast >>>> >>>> >>>> > Good question Joy! I think a bunch of siblings (like these folks >>>> > were) >>>> > can keep it together naturally but when they start to fade away and >>>> > you >>>> > are left with cousins and a collection of spouses with family ties of >>>> > their own, you need a catalytic agent of some sort - maybe a person >>>> > or >>>> > a >>>> > group of people that pulls or pushes the different family members >>>> > together. They have to be either loved or feared or so much of a pain >>> it >>>> > the butt that everybody gives in to avoid further hassles. I watched >>>> > my >>>> > mother's Swedish family gatherings wither away after my Grandmother >>> died - >>>> > she was a catalyst of a sort and no one replaced her. >>>> > >>>> > Al in Music City >>>> > ----- Original Message ----- >>>> > >>>> > From: "Joy Durrett" >>>> > To: >>>> > Sent: Wednesday, March 30, 2005 8:57 AM >>>> > Subject: Re: [CROATIA-L] Lamb Roast >>>> > >>>> > >>>> >> Why didn't the next generation keep it going? Sounds like a great >>>> >> way >>> to >>>> >> keep the family together. >>>> >> >>>> >> Joy >>>> >> ----- Original Message ----- >>>> >> From: "al toennies" >>>> >> To: >>>> >> Sent: Wednesday, March 30, 2005 2:52 AM >>>> >> Subject: Re: [CROATIA-L] Lamb Roast >>>> >> >>>> >> >>>> >>> My wife's family (all of Croatian descent) used to have a picnic at >>>> >>> a >>>> >>> summer home in Silver Lake, WI (we were all from Chicago) and >>>> >>> roasted >>> a >>>> >>> whole lamb over charcoal in a 55 gallon drum split lengthwise with >>>> >>> a >>>> >>> home-made turning mechanism >>>> >>> doing all the heavy work. I was never a big fan of lamb but I made >>>> >>> an >>>> >>> exception for that - Most of those folks are gone now but the >>>> >>> memories >>>> >>> remain including the best lamb I have ever eaten. >>>> >>> >>>> >>> Al in Music City >>>> >>> >>>> >>> ----- Original Message ----- >>>> >>> From: "Robert Jerin" >>>> >>> To: >>>> >>> Sent: Tuesday, March 29, 2005 12:44 PM >>>> >>> Subject: Re: [CROATIA-L] Lamb Roast >>>> >>> >>>> >>> >>>> >>>> Nick, >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> I must admit that I roasted just a leg and used my Weber with nice >>> hot >>>> >>>> coals on the side. Pleeeze don't tell any real Croatians about my >>>> >>>> "unorthodox" method of using a Weber! Everyone here loves roast >>>> >>>> lamb >>>> >>>> except the wife. So it was enough for the gang. But IMHO the >>>> >>>> secret >>>> >>>> is selecting the right piece, trimming much of the fact and then >>>> >>>> coating the lamb with olive oil, salt (I use Croatian Podravka >>> Vegeta), >>>> >>>> pepper, fresh chopped garlic and rosemary and let it marinate in >>>> >>>> the >>>> >>>> fridge for a day or more... then setting the piece out about 2 >>>> >>>> hours >>>> >>>> before placing on the grill. Oh the other trick is slow roasting, >>>> >>>> no >>>> >>>> flame, just hot coals and not too close to the coals....mmmm.... >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> It has been several years since our Junior tammie group here in >>>> >>>> Cleveland had a picnic... at that time we would take most of Sat >>>> >>>> afternoon to set up 8 whole lambs and 9 pigs on spits, then season >>> them >>>> >>>> and put them in the cooler for Sun am.. after that we would feast >>>> >>>> on >>>> >>>> gulas that I would make along with salad, some wine and slivovitz >>>> >>>> and >>>> >>>> one of the father's, who has since passed away would play his >>> harmonika >>>> >>>> (accordian) and all the guys would dance to his Bosanac songs! >>>> >>>> What >>> a >>>> >>>> sight! Then at 4 AM on Sunday I would meet my friend Mato Vrbic at >>> the >>>> >>>> picnic center to prepare the fire... then a little coffee with >>>> >>>> slivovitz of course... and about 6AM we would consider the coals >>>> >>>> and >>>> >>>> the brick lined floor hot enough to place the first few pieces on >>>> >>>> the >>>> >>>> spit... then about 11:30 ish the first ones would come off to be >>>> >>>> cut >>>> >>>> and served.... that Sunday would finish up at about 10-11 PM >>>> >>>> making >>>> >>>> sure the center was left in better condition than we found it! >>>> >>>> Lots >>>> >>>> of work but I miss those ! >>>> >>>> days... >>>> >>>> as they brought back memories of my Grandparent's PLASAJ (Mirko >>>> >>>> and >>>> >>>> Mary) and my cousin's BAKALE (Ivan and Johanna)farms in PA and the >>>> >>>> picnics we would have there. But they are all gone now so we try >>>> >>>> to >>>> >>>> carry on some semblance of those traditions..... >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> http://www.podravka.com/en/products/index.php?if=new_products.php >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> Here is a photo that may bring back some memories >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> http://www.members.shaw.ca/rogergou/bast4.jpeg >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> Robert >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> nharamija wrote: >>>> >>>> Robert; Let us see your grille and how you set it up. >>>> >>>> Nick >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> ----- Original Message ----- >>>> >>>> From: "Robert Jerin" >>>> >>>> To: >>>> >>>> Sent: Tuesday, March 29, 2005 11:50 AM >>>> >>>> Subject: Re: [CROATIA-L] Test >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> My wife did those things! I was busy roasting.... lamb! >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> Jerome Buza wrote: >>>> >>>> That's right!!! We were all busy baking and cooking and dying eggs >>> and >>>> >>>> cleaning the house for company. >>>> >>>> Margaret >>>> >>>> ----- Original Message ----- >>>> >>>> From: "dave mothkovich" >>>> >>>> To: >>>> >>>> Sent: Tuesday, March 29, 2005 2:32 AM >>>> >>>> Subject: Re: [CROATIA-L] Test >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>>> Everybody got busy, and then the holiday came, it happens. >>>> >>>>> Christmas >>>> >>>>> was >>>> >>>>> different, everyone had time to chat it up. >>>> >>>>> >>>> >>>>> Dave >>>> >>>>> On Tue, 29 Mar 2005 17:45:41 +0800 "John Stefanac" >>>> >>>>> writes: >>>> >>>>>> Is it just quiet on this list or have I somehow been kicked off >>>> >>>>>> it >>>> >>>>>> again >>>> >>>>>> >>>> >>>>>> >>>> >>>>>> >>>> >>>>> >>>> >>>>> >>>> >>>>> >>>> >>>>> -- >>>> >>>>> No virus found in this incoming message. >>>> >>>>> Checked by AVG Anti-Virus. >>>> >>>>> Version: 7.0.308 / Virus Database: 266.8.4 - Release Date: >>>> >>>>> 3/27/2005 >>>> >>>>> >>>> >>>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> Interested in visting Croatia? Click on the link below to find out >>>> >>>> about a >>>> >>>> wonderful tour of Croatia! >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> http://www.kollander-travel.com/ >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> Interested in visting Croatia? Click on the link below to find out >>>> >>>> about a wonderful tour of Croatia! >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> http://www.kollander-travel.com/ >>>> >>>> >>>> >>> >>>> >> >>>> > >>>> > >>>> > >>>> > -- >>>> > No virus found in this incoming message. >>>> > Checked by AVG Anti-Virus. >>>> > Version: 7.0.308 / Virus Database: 266.8.4 - Release Date: 3/27/2005 >>>> > >>>> > >>>> >>>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> Interested in visting Croatia? Click on the link below to find out about >>> a wonderful tour of Croatia! >>> >>> http://www.kollander-travel.com/ >>> >>> >>> >>> -- >>> No virus found in this incoming message. >>> Checked by AVG Anti-Virus. >>> Version: 7.0.308 / Virus Database: 266.8.4 - Release Date: 3/27/2005 >>> >>> >> >> >> >> Interested in visting Croatia? Click on the link below to find out about >> a wonderful tour of Croatia! >> >> http://www.kollander-travel.com/ >> >> >> >> -- >> No virus found in this incoming message. >> Checked by AVG Anti-Virus. >> Version: 7.0.308 / Virus Database: 266.8.4 - Release Date: 3/27/2005 >> >> > > > > Interested in visting Croatia? Click on the link below to find out about > a wonderful tour of Croatia! > > http://www.kollander-travel.com/ > >