Interesting! The last article here just set the limit at the Kupa, which would leave out a good bit of Slovenia. The description of course is a lot of mumbo jumbo, first it includes part most of Slovenia, Croatia, etc and then later it states of those countries. And as far as the articles statement that "Historically and politically" blah, blah... Croatia and Slovenia have a longer history with Hungary and Austria than they do with the Ottomans or Serbia! I always loved history and especially some of the teachers and textbooks they are so contradictory and inaccurate in so many cases :) Robert Jerome Buza <[email protected]> wrote: Encyclopedia > > Balkan Peninsula > > Balkan Peninsula, southeasternmost peninsula of Europe, c.200,000 sq mi > (518,000 sq km), bounded by the Black Sea, Sea of Marmara, Aegean Sea, > Mediterranean Sea, Ionian Sea, and Adriatic Sea. Although there is no > sharp physiographic separation between the peninsula and Central Europe, > the line of the Sava and Danube rivers is commonly considered as the > region's northern limit. The Balkan Peninsula therefore includes most of > Slovenia, Croatia, and Serbia and Montenegro, Bosnia and Hercegovina, > Albania, Macedonia, continental Greece (including the Peloponnesus), > Bulgaria, European Turkey, and SE Romania. These countries, successors to > the Ottoman Empire, are called the Balkan States. Historically and > politically the region extends north of this line to include all of > Slovenia, Croatia, Serbia and Montenegro, and Romania. > > > > -- > No virus found in this incoming message. > Checked by AVG Anti-Virus. > Version: 7.0.308 / Virus Database: 266.9.1 - Release Date: 4/1/2005 > > -- No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG Anti-Virus. Version: 7.0.308 / Virus Database: 266.9.1 - Release Interested in visting Croatia? Click on the link below to find out about a wonderful tour of Croatia! http://www.kollander-travel.com/

Bill, I am very fond of Vietnamese, especially bun Cha#777; gi� and cafe su da for dessert. That brings up a genealogically related point, well kind of. When we lived in "The Cities" we befriended a family who owned several restuarants. The husband had worked for the US distributing corn oil to the villagers, seems lard was thier main oil until the US got there. They were quite the family, the wife spoke little English. But they would sit with us when we ate there... they used us to describe the new dishes they put on their menu. They had 4 children all attending U of M in math and science programs... that was expected by Mr. Ngoc! He lamented the fact that his children were becoming American and were not interested in their family history. I assured him that in later life they would find that interest. When the first grandson was born we were invited to their restuarant which they had closed on the day of the baptism. We lost contact with them but I can still recall, s! itting and drinking cafe su da (sp?) with Mr Ngoc while he chain smoked his Pall Malls! I learned that orientals, in general, have strong families, at least the ones I have known. Guess I am like the old man I once met who commented that he only liked 2 kinds of pies.... they were ... hot and cold :) Robert William F Kane <[email protected]> wrote: Thanks for the Mlinci recipe. I love that stuff but didn't have a recipe. I am going to try it next time we have a roast. Good luck on filling the tour. Bill Kane, A Frenchman who love Croatian cooking, (French too) In fact I like it all. We had Vietnamese tonight. Interested in visting Croatia? Click on the link below to find out about a wonderful tour of Croatia! http://www.kollander-travel.com/

In a message dated 4/3/2005 10:03:17 A.M. Pacific Daylight Time, [email protected] writes: It should be pointed out that there are 2 ways to subscribe to this list - [email protected] AND [email protected] The subscriber needs to email the correct one ie [email protected] OR [email protected] putting the word "unsubscribe"(but without the quotes) in the subject line and in the body of the message in order to get off that particular mailing. This may be why some are having problems - they are emailing the wrong one. ------------------ In addition to the above good advice, the person wishing to unsubscribe needs to use a NEW, CLEAN email blank and not try to use a Reply to another message that was sent thru the list. Sharon Dulcich

I didn't know that I would open a can of worms with one statement about Balkan and Croatia in the same paragraph yesterday. Wow. It is kind of like the time I worked at the Polish deli and all the Serbians were coming in and afraid to say where they were from. They had nothing to do with what was going on in Serbia as they lived in America now, but they were embarrassed. I am proud to be an American of so many heritages. Margaret ----- Original Message ----- From: <[email protected]> To: <[email protected]> Sent: Sunday, April 03, 2005 1:45 PM Subject: Re: [CROATIA-L] Balkans > Karen, are you implying that Slavic people instead of Balkan people live > in > harmony? > Good news! > Tatjana > > > > -- > No virus found in this incoming message. > Checked by AVG Anti-Virus. > Version: 7.0.308 / Virus Database: 266.9.1 - Release Date: 4/1/2005 > >

For those interested in Sanja Frigan-Ciuha, Before I left for Australia I asked Sanja to do some research on Sylvia's g.g.grandfather because I could find no records from Salt Lake. When I returned a month later she had completed a preliminary search and discovered some information taking us back another generation. as well as his birth record and the birth record of her g.grandfather which we didn't have. Also we now have a listing of all of his children. Her fees are modest and we are about to ask her to do phase two of the search as she has just e-mailed me that she has found a new source that should have more details. Her e-mail is [email protected] Good luck, Bill Kane

Sandra, Best of Europe Meats and Deli is located at 32nd Street and Greenway in Phoenix. Coming from Nevada you would get on the 101 freeway, head east, get off at the 51 freeway and then at Greenway road. Turn west and it will be the first or second driveway on the right hand side. It is a funny shopping center and there is a group of stores near the McDonald's sitting by themselves and that is where the deli is. Plan to get a sandwich while there. They have a garlic-pepper pork sandwich on rye that is wonderful - to die for Their phone number is 602 493 1973. They usually have their own hot dogs, too, and you'll never want to eat any other after eating them. If you go there, tell them that Margaret and JB sent you. Our pictures are up on their wall and we used to work for them. They speak Polish and English. Margaret ----- Original Message ----- From: <[email protected]> To: <[email protected]> Sent: Sunday, April 03, 2005 1:21 PM Subject: Re: [CROATIA-L] zeludac pate > > In a message dated 4/2/2005 5:10:52 PM Pacific Daylight Time, > [email protected] writes: > > Up to about 10 years ago, I could get the casings to make the > kielbasa and still know where I can get them, but I buy all that stuff > instead of making it at a place here in AZ called Best of Europe Meats and > Deli. They make all their own sausages and many lunchmeats and have > smoked > ribs and slab bacon. > > > > PLEASE, tell me where this is located! I live in Nevada and would > certainly > drive the distance for 'fresh' sausages. > Thank you, > Sandra > [email protected]_ (mailto:[email protected]) > > > > -- > No virus found in this incoming message. > Checked by AVG Anti-Virus. > Version: 7.0.308 / Virus Database: 266.9.1 - Release Date: 4/1/2005 > >

1. How to unsubscribe. Send a message to [email protected] that contains (in the body of the message) the command unsubscribe and no additional text. ----- Original Message ----- From: <[email protected]> To: <[email protected]> Sent: Sunday, April 03, 2005 12:10 PM Subject: Re: [CROATIA-L] HOW DO I UNSUBSCRIBE? >I JUST NEED TO KNOW HOW TO GET OFF THIS LIST. > > THANK YOU > R. RODINIS > >

I agree. Detroit isn't such a great city any more, but I am proud to be a Detroiter as it was a wonderful place in the 1940's and 50's when I was growing up. My dad used to say we were "hunkies" and we laughed. My family is German, Hungarian, Croatian, and Slovenian. My husband's is Polish and German, BUT, we are American. I have an Irish and German daughter in law so we celebrate with her on St. Patrick's day. On Christmas we observe my German, Hungarian, Croatian customs. For Easter we do the Polish and Croatian customs. We have extended family that is from England and we wish them a Happy Boxing Day. I fry "Krapfa" for Fat Tuesday. I have Italians and Scots, Hawaiians, Black, Jewish, American Indian and much more married into my family. We are all children of God and happy to be alive. Margaret ----- Original Message ----- From: "Nenad" <[email protected]> To: <[email protected]> Sent: Sunday, April 03, 2005 8:58 AM Subject: RE: [CROATIA-L] Balkans or southeastern Europe > Thanks Frank for the good links... > > To understanding history correctly it is necessary to use and compare > many different sources. Today when internet it is very powerfull tool > everybody can wrote history on personal wishes not on the fact... > > I don't care how people call me; I don't have a problem to be a Balkans, > or Jugoslavians, or Afrikans or maybe Marsians who care.... But for > myself I know exactlly my family roots and resarch what was happened in > the turbolent history on this small piece of the globe... > > So I respect any other opinion and if somebody from Balkan don't like to > be Balkans it is fine for me... > > > > -----Original Message----- > From: Frank Kurchina [mailto:[email protected]] > Sent: 3. april 2005 9:28 > To: [email protected] > Subject: Re: [CROATIA-L] Balkans or southeastern Europe > > > Perhaps some subscribers would like to read the definition of "Balkans" > presented below : > (However the printout in 1 inch thick) > Maps below might be the better starting point ? > > TWENTY-FIVE LECTURES ON MODERN BALKAN HISTORY > (THE BALKANS IN THE AGE OF NATIONALISM) > by Steven W. Sowards > http://www.lib.msu.edu/sowards/balkan/ > > List of Maps > http://www.lib.msu.edu/sowards/balkan/maps.htm > > Bibliography > http://www.lib.msu.edu/sowards/staff/balkan/bibliography.html > > v > Frank Kurcina > > > > -- > No virus found in this incoming message. > Checked by AVG Anti-Virus. > Version: 7.0.308 / Virus Database: 266.9.1 - Release Date: 4/1/2005 > >

Dear List - I think the point I was trying to make is that while logically we may all know about the Balkans, etc, in this area you have 100s of years of ethnic "bad feelings". Lumping us altogether under one name is NOT going to make that go away. Even in today's "enlightened" age (and several wars later) some of us are much more likely to label ourselves "Slavic" than "Balkan". And this is not intended to start another war...after all, we Slavic/Balkan peoples are kind of volatile! Karen Heiser Weed, Siskiyou, CA ----- Original Message ----- From: "Jerome Buza" <[email protected]> To: <[email protected]> Sent: Sunday, April 03, 2005 8:53 AM Subject: Re: [CROATIA-L] Balkans > They may not have liked it (I had never heard this before), but it seems to > be in the history books. I don't know why it is so bad as we are all > children of God andf that is what is important. It is almost like "sticks > and stones will break my bones, but names will never hurt me". > Margaret > ----- Original Message ----- > From: " Karen Heiser" <[email protected]> > To: <[email protected]> > Sent: Sunday, April 03, 2005 1:39 AM > Subject: Re: [CROATIA-L] Balkans > > > > Dear List - the sound you hear is my Grandmother, rolling over in her > > grave. > > If she was able to partake in THIS discussion, all 4 ft. 11 ins. of her > > would be in your face! I agree with Robert, being called a Balkan was not > > a > > good thing to most Croatians. > > Karen Heiser > > Weed, Siskiyou, CA > > ----- Original Message ----- > > From: "Jerome Buza" <[email protected]> > > To: <[email protected]> > > Sent: Saturday, April 02, 2005 10:46 PM > > Subject: [CROATIA-L] Balkans > > > > > >> Encyclopedia > >> > > >> > Balkan Peninsula > >> > > >> > Balkan Peninsula, southeasternmost peninsula of Europe, c.200,000 sq mi > >> > (518,000 sq km), bounded by the Black Sea, Sea of Marmara, Aegean Sea, > >> > Mediterranean Sea, Ionian Sea, and Adriatic Sea. Although there is no > >> > sharp physiographic separation between the peninsula and Central > >> > Europe, > >> > the line of the Sava and Danube rivers is commonly considered as the > >> > region's northern limit. The Balkan Peninsula therefore includes most > >> > of > >> > Slovenia, Croatia, and Serbia and Montenegro, Bosnia and Hercegovina, > >> > Albania, Macedonia, continental Greece (including the Peloponnesus), > >> > Bulgaria, European Turkey, and SE Romania. These countries, successors > > to > >> > the Ottoman Empire, are called the Balkan States. Historically and > >> > politically the region extends north of this line to include all of > >> > Slovenia, Croatia, Serbia and Montenegro, and Romania. > >> > > >> > > >> > > >> > -- > >> > No virus found in this incoming message. > >> > Checked by AVG Anti-Virus. > >> > Version: 7.0.308 / Virus Database: 266.9.1 - Release Date: 4/1/2005 > >> > > >> > > >> > >> > >> > >> -- > >> No virus found in this incoming message. > >> Checked by AVG Anti-Virus. > >> Version: 7.0.308 / Virus Database: 266.9.1 - Release > >> > >> > > > > > > > > > > -- > > No virus found in this incoming message. > > Checked by AVG Anti-Virus. > > Version: 7.0.308 / Virus Database: 266.9.1 - Release Date: 4/1/2005 > > > > > >

It should be pointed out that there are 2 ways to subscribe to this list - [email protected] AND [email protected] The subscriber needs to email the correct one ie [email protected] OR [email protected] putting the word "unsubscribe"(but without the quotes) in the subject line and in the body of the message in order to get off that particular mailing. This may be why some are having problems - they are emailing the wrong one.

In a message dated 4/3/2005 4:58:50 AM Eastern Daylight Time, [email protected] writes: << Subj: Re: [CROATIA-L] Balkans Date: 4/3/2005 4:58:50 AM Eastern Daylight Time From: [email protected] Reply-to: [email protected] To: [email protected] Are we talking about geography or "the West's" effort to malign people from the region which they repeatedly deliberately invaded and pillaged? Karen, your granma should rest in piece whether she is supposed to come from "the Balkans" or London. Holocaust and witchburnings did not originate in "the Balkans". And when the Dutch behaved as they did (Srebrenica) was it the fault of "the Balkans" or the people who tolerated horrible events regardless of in which part of Europe they originated? When- many years ago- I learned about the French word "balcaniser", I did not feel shamed. I was offended and resentful. Many dictionaries could be enriched by inventing words referring to the French behaviour throughout history. But this would lead nowhere. Rather be proud of your people's contributions than worry about other people's prejudices. This brings me to lambroast again. Nobody mentioned that it refers to "licki janjac", lets give credit to Lika! (whether it is in "the Balkans" or southeasteurope) Tatjana n a message dated 4/3/2005 12:40:39 A.M. Pacific Standard Time, [email protected] writes: the sound you hear is my Grandmother, rolling over in her grave. If she was able to partake in THIS discussion, all 4 ft. 11 ins. of her would be in your face! I agree with Robert, being called a Balkan was not a good thing to most Croatians. Karen Heiser Weed, Siskiyou, CA So THAT is what I was hearing! Clear down here in southern California!! I shall be very, very careful in what I say!! Sharon Dulcich Bakersfield, Kern Co., CA

Thanks Frank for the good links... To understanding history correctly it is necessary to use and compare many different sources. Today when internet it is very powerfull tool everybody can wrote history on personal wishes not on the fact... I don't care how people call me; I don't have a problem to be a Balkans, or Jugoslavians, or Afrikans or maybe Marsians who care.... But for myself I know exactlly my family roots and resarch what was happened in the turbolent history on this small piece of the globe... So I respect any other opinion and if somebody from Balkan don't like to be Balkans it is fine for me... -----Original Message----- From: Frank Kurchina [mailto:[email protected]] Sent: 3. april 2005 9:28 To: [email protected] Subject: Re: [CROATIA-L] Balkans or southeastern Europe Perhaps some subscribers would like to read the definition of "Balkans" presented below : (However the printout in 1 inch thick) Maps below might be the better starting point ? TWENTY-FIVE LECTURES ON MODERN BALKAN HISTORY (THE BALKANS IN THE AGE OF NATIONALISM) by Steven W. Sowards http://www.lib.msu.edu/sowards/balkan/ List of Maps http://www.lib.msu.edu/sowards/balkan/maps.htm Bibliography http://www.lib.msu.edu/sowards/staff/balkan/bibliography.html v Frank Kurcina

Careful- Grandmothers and fathers all over are rolling, I think it was about a 4.5 on the richter scale. dave On Sun, 3 Apr 2005 04:51:51 EDT [email protected] writes: > > In a message dated 4/3/2005 12:40:39 A.M. Pacific Standard Time, > [email protected] writes: > > the sound you hear is my Grandmother, rolling over in her grave. > If she was able to partake in THIS discussion, all 4 ft. 11 ins. of > her > would be in your face! I agree with Robert, being called a Balkan > was not a > good thing to most Croatians. > Karen Heiser > Weed, Siskiyou, CA > > > > So THAT is what I was hearing! Clear down here in southern > California!! I > shall be very, very careful in what I say!! > > Sharon Dulcich > Bakersfield, Kern Co., CA > > >

They may not have liked it (I had never heard this before), but it seems to be in the history books. I don't know why it is so bad as we are all children of God andf that is what is important. It is almost like "sticks and stones will break my bones, but names will never hurt me". Margaret ----- Original Message ----- From: " Karen Heiser" <[email protected]> To: <[email protected]> Sent: Sunday, April 03, 2005 1:39 AM Subject: Re: [CROATIA-L] Balkans > Dear List - the sound you hear is my Grandmother, rolling over in her > grave. > If she was able to partake in THIS discussion, all 4 ft. 11 ins. of her > would be in your face! I agree with Robert, being called a Balkan was not > a > good thing to most Croatians. > Karen Heiser > Weed, Siskiyou, CA > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Jerome Buza" <[email protected]> > To: <[email protected]> > Sent: Saturday, April 02, 2005 10:46 PM > Subject: [CROATIA-L] Balkans > > >> Encyclopedia >> > >> > Balkan Peninsula >> > >> > Balkan Peninsula, southeasternmost peninsula of Europe, c.200,000 sq mi >> > (518,000 sq km), bounded by the Black Sea, Sea of Marmara, Aegean Sea, >> > Mediterranean Sea, Ionian Sea, and Adriatic Sea. Although there is no >> > sharp physiographic separation between the peninsula and Central >> > Europe, >> > the line of the Sava and Danube rivers is commonly considered as the >> > region's northern limit. The Balkan Peninsula therefore includes most >> > of >> > Slovenia, Croatia, and Serbia and Montenegro, Bosnia and Hercegovina, >> > Albania, Macedonia, continental Greece (including the Peloponnesus), >> > Bulgaria, European Turkey, and SE Romania. These countries, successors > to >> > the Ottoman Empire, are called the Balkan States. Historically and >> > politically the region extends north of this line to include all of >> > Slovenia, Croatia, Serbia and Montenegro, and Romania. >> > >> > >> > >> > -- >> > No virus found in this incoming message. >> > Checked by AVG Anti-Virus. >> > Version: 7.0.308 / Virus Database: 266.9.1 - Release Date: 4/1/2005 >> > >> > >> >> >> >> -- >> No virus found in this incoming message. >> Checked by AVG Anti-Virus. >> Version: 7.0.308 / Virus Database: 266.9.1 - Release >> >> > > > > > -- > No virus found in this incoming message. > Checked by AVG Anti-Virus. > Version: 7.0.308 / Virus Database: 266.9.1 - Release Date: 4/1/2005 > >

Thank you . That was very informative. Donald Marinkovich ----- Original Message ----- From: "Nenad" <[email protected]> To: <[email protected]> Sent: Sunday, April 03, 2005 12:19 AM Subject: RE: [CROATIA-L] Balkans or southeastern Europe > Dear Mr. Robert > > One, it is what we will want to be and other are truth and facts what > Europeans see as what we are:) > > Br, Nenad > > The Balkans is the historic and geographic name used to describe > southeastern Europe. > The region has a combined area of 550,000 km² and a population of around > 53 million. > > The region takes its name from the Balkan mountains which run through > the centre of Bulgaria into eastern Serbia. > > Definitions and boundaries > > The Balkans are generally considered to comprise the lands to the south > of the Kupa, Sava > and Danube rivers. The Kupa forms a natural boundary between > south-eastern Slovenia and > Croatia, the Sava bisects Croatia and Serbia and the Danube, which is > the 2nd largest > European river (after Volga), forms a natural boundary between both > Bulgaria and Serbia > and Romania. North of that line lies the Pannonian plain and (in the > case of Romania) > the Carpathian mountains. Although Romania (with the exception of > Dobrudja) is not > geographically part of the Balkans, it is conventionally included as a > successor state > to the old Ottoman Empire, which formerly ruled the whole region. > Slovenia is likewise > sometimes regarded as a Balkan country due to its association with the > former Yugoslavia, > although historically and culturally it is more connected to the other > Central European > countries. > > The Balkan land mass is sometimes referred to as the Balkan peninsula as > it is surrounded > by the Adriatic, Ionian, Aegean, Marmara and Black seas from the > southwest, south and > southeast. While it is not a model peninsula as it has no isthmus to > connect it to the mainland > of Europe, this definition is often used to denote the wider region. > > The distinct identity of the Balkans owes as much to its fragmented and > often violent common > history as to its mountainous geography. The region was perennially on > the edge of great > empires, its history dominated by wars, rebellions, invasions and > clashes between empires, > from the times of the Roman Empire to the latter-day Yugoslav wars. Its > fractiousness and > tendency to splinter into rival political entities led to the coining of > the term Balkanization > (or balkanizing). The term Balkan commonly connotes a connection with > violence, religious strife, > ethnic clannishness and a sense of hinterland. > > Due to the aforementioned connotations of the term "Balkan", many people > prefer the term > Southeastern Europe instead. The use of this term is slowly growing; a > European Union > initiative of 1999 is called the Stability Pact for South Eastern > Europe, and the online > newspaper Balkan Times renamed itself Southeast European Times in 2003. > The use of this > term to mean the Balkan peninsula (and only that) technically ignores > the geographical > presence of northern Romania and Ukraine, which are also located in the > southeastern > part of the European continent. > > The countries commonly included in the Balkan region are: > > Albania > Bosnia and Herzegovina > Bulgaria > Croatia > Greece > Republic of Macedonia > Serbia and Montenegro > Turkey, but only the European part of it around Istanbul (traditionally > called Rumelia or > Eastern Thrace) > Romania and Slovenia are sometimes included in the list as well. > > Many regions in the countries listed as Balkan states can be in many > respects rather distinct > from the remainder of the region, so countries that are borderline cases > (often far away from > the Balkan mountain itself) usually prefer not to be called Balkan > countries. Prime examples > of this are Romania and Slovenia, sometimes also Croatia and Greece. > > Other countries not included in the Balkan region that are close to it > and/or play or have > played an important role in the region's geopolitics, culture and > history: > > Cyprus (see also Cyprus dispute) > Hungary (see also Austria-Hungary) > Austria (see also Austria-Hungary, Assassination in Sarajevo) > Italy (see Croatia: Dalmatia, Zara, Fiume; History of Slovenia) > Russia (see History of Serbia) > > -----Original Message----- > From: Robert Jerin [mailto:[email protected]] > Sent: 2. april 2005 17:58 > To: [email protected] > Subject: Re: [CROATIA-L] Lamb Roast > > Croatia and Slovenia are central European countries not Balkan > countries. A well known phrase used when someone is crude or rude in > Croatia is ti si Balkanac! > > Jerome Buza <[email protected]> wrote:We have several stores in Arizona > that carry canned and packaged goods from > Croatia and Slovenia and other Balkan countries and can get Bull's Blood > > wine from Egar at our Trader Joe's. > Margaret > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Lisa Kovach" > > To: > Sent: Saturday, April 02, 2005 8:50 AM > Subject: Re: [CROATIA-L] Lamb Roast > > >> http://www.swua.org/food&wine/ Here's a site of stores in the USA that > >> sell croation foods. Lisa >> From: Erika Curi >> To: [email protected] >> Sent: Saturday, April 02, 2005 9:35 AM >> Subject: Re: [CROATIA-L] Lamb Roast >> >> >> ANN SMETANA,CHARLES PINTAR ? >> >> >> >> >> > >> >Pray tell What Is "Smetana"? >> >Nick >> > >> > >> >----- Original Message ----- >> >From: "Robert Jerin" >> >To: >> >Sent: Thursday, March 31, 2005 9:24 PM >> >Subject: Re: [CROATIA-L] Lamb Roast >> > >> > >> > >> >> _________________________________________________________________ >> Charla con tus amigos en línea mediante MSN Messenger: >> http://messenger.latam.msn.com/ >> >> >> >> -- >> No virus found in this incoming message. >> Checked by AVG Anti-Virus. >> Version: 7.0.308 / Virus Database: 266.9.1 - Release Date: 4/1/2005 >> >> > > > > > Interested in visting Croatia? Click on the link below to find out > about a wonderful tour of Croatia! > > http://www.kollander-travel.com/ > > >

Perhaps some subscribers would like to read the definition of "Balkans" presented below : (However the printout in 1 inch thick) Maps below might be the better starting point ? TWENTY-FIVE LECTURES ON MODERN BALKAN HISTORY (THE BALKANS IN THE AGE OF NATIONALISM) by Steven W. Sowards http://www.lib.msu.edu/sowards/balkan/ List of Maps http://www.lib.msu.edu/sowards/balkan/maps.htm Bibliography http://www.lib.msu.edu/sowards/staff/balkan/bibliography.html v Frank Kurcina

In a message dated 4/3/2005 12:40:39 A.M. Pacific Standard Time, [email protected] writes: the sound you hear is my Grandmother, rolling over in her grave. If she was able to partake in THIS discussion, all 4 ft. 11 ins. of her would be in your face! I agree with Robert, being called a Balkan was not a good thing to most Croatians. Karen Heiser Weed, Siskiyou, CA So THAT is what I was hearing! Clear down here in southern California!! I shall be very, very careful in what I say!! Sharon Dulcich Bakersfield, Kern Co., CA

Dear List - the sound you hear is my Grandmother, rolling over in her grave. If she was able to partake in THIS discussion, all 4 ft. 11 ins. of her would be in your face! I agree with Robert, being called a Balkan was not a good thing to most Croatians. Karen Heiser Weed, Siskiyou, CA ----- Original Message ----- From: "Jerome Buza" <[email protected]> To: <[email protected]> Sent: Saturday, April 02, 2005 10:46 PM Subject: [CROATIA-L] Balkans > Encyclopedia > > > > Balkan Peninsula > > > > Balkan Peninsula, southeasternmost peninsula of Europe, c.200,000 sq mi > > (518,000 sq km), bounded by the Black Sea, Sea of Marmara, Aegean Sea, > > Mediterranean Sea, Ionian Sea, and Adriatic Sea. Although there is no > > sharp physiographic separation between the peninsula and Central Europe, > > the line of the Sava and Danube rivers is commonly considered as the > > region's northern limit. The Balkan Peninsula therefore includes most of > > Slovenia, Croatia, and Serbia and Montenegro, Bosnia and Hercegovina, > > Albania, Macedonia, continental Greece (including the Peloponnesus), > > Bulgaria, European Turkey, and SE Romania. These countries, successors to > > the Ottoman Empire, are called the Balkan States. Historically and > > politically the region extends north of this line to include all of > > Slovenia, Croatia, Serbia and Montenegro, and Romania. > > > > > > > > -- > > No virus found in this incoming message. > > Checked by AVG Anti-Virus. > > Version: 7.0.308 / Virus Database: 266.9.1 - Release Date: 4/1/2005 > > > > > > > > -- > No virus found in this incoming message. > Checked by AVG Anti-Virus. > Version: 7.0.308 / Virus Database: 266.9.1 - Release > >

Encyclopedia > > Balkan Peninsula > > Balkan Peninsula, southeasternmost peninsula of Europe, c.200,000 sq mi > (518,000 sq km), bounded by the Black Sea, Sea of Marmara, Aegean Sea, > Mediterranean Sea, Ionian Sea, and Adriatic Sea. Although there is no > sharp physiographic separation between the peninsula and Central Europe, > the line of the Sava and Danube rivers is commonly considered as the > region's northern limit. The Balkan Peninsula therefore includes most of > Slovenia, Croatia, and Serbia and Montenegro, Bosnia and Hercegovina, > Albania, Macedonia, continental Greece (including the Peloponnesus), > Bulgaria, European Turkey, and SE Romania. These countries, successors to > the Ottoman Empire, are called the Balkan States. Historically and > politically the region extends north of this line to include all of > Slovenia, Croatia, Serbia and Montenegro, and Romania. > > > > -- > No virus found in this incoming message. > Checked by AVG Anti-Virus. > Version: 7.0.308 / Virus Database: 266.9.1 - Release Date: 4/1/2005 > > -- No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG Anti-Virus. Version: 7.0.308 / Virus Database: 266.9.1 - Release

Dear Mr. Robert One, it is what we will want to be and other are truth and facts what Europeans see as what we are:) Br, Nenad The Balkans is the historic and geographic name used to describe southeastern Europe. The region has a combined area of 550,000 km² and a population of around 53 million. The region takes its name from the Balkan mountains which run through the centre of Bulgaria into eastern Serbia. Definitions and boundaries The Balkans are generally considered to comprise the lands to the south of the Kupa, Sava and Danube rivers. The Kupa forms a natural boundary between south-eastern Slovenia and Croatia, the Sava bisects Croatia and Serbia and the Danube, which is the 2nd largest European river (after Volga), forms a natural boundary between both Bulgaria and Serbia and Romania. North of that line lies the Pannonian plain and (in the case of Romania) the Carpathian mountains. Although Romania (with the exception of Dobrudja) is not geographically part of the Balkans, it is conventionally included as a successor state to the old Ottoman Empire, which formerly ruled the whole region. Slovenia is likewise sometimes regarded as a Balkan country due to its association with the former Yugoslavia, although historically and culturally it is more connected to the other Central European countries. The Balkan land mass is sometimes referred to as the Balkan peninsula as it is surrounded by the Adriatic, Ionian, Aegean, Marmara and Black seas from the southwest, south and southeast. While it is not a model peninsula as it has no isthmus to connect it to the mainland of Europe, this definition is often used to denote the wider region. The distinct identity of the Balkans owes as much to its fragmented and often violent common history as to its mountainous geography. The region was perennially on the edge of great empires, its history dominated by wars, rebellions, invasions and clashes between empires, from the times of the Roman Empire to the latter-day Yugoslav wars. Its fractiousness and tendency to splinter into rival political entities led to the coining of the term Balkanization (or balkanizing). The term Balkan commonly connotes a connection with violence, religious strife, ethnic clannishness and a sense of hinterland. Due to the aforementioned connotations of the term "Balkan", many people prefer the term Southeastern Europe instead. The use of this term is slowly growing; a European Union initiative of 1999 is called the Stability Pact for South Eastern Europe, and the online newspaper Balkan Times renamed itself Southeast European Times in 2003. The use of this term to mean the Balkan peninsula (and only that) technically ignores the geographical presence of northern Romania and Ukraine, which are also located in the southeastern part of the European continent. The countries commonly included in the Balkan region are: Albania Bosnia and Herzegovina Bulgaria Croatia Greece Republic of Macedonia Serbia and Montenegro Turkey, but only the European part of it around Istanbul (traditionally called Rumelia or Eastern Thrace) Romania and Slovenia are sometimes included in the list as well. Many regions in the countries listed as Balkan states can be in many respects rather distinct from the remainder of the region, so countries that are borderline cases (often far away from the Balkan mountain itself) usually prefer not to be called Balkan countries. Prime examples of this are Romania and Slovenia, sometimes also Croatia and Greece. Other countries not included in the Balkan region that are close to it and/or play or have played an important role in the region's geopolitics, culture and history: Cyprus (see also Cyprus dispute) Hungary (see also Austria-Hungary) Austria (see also Austria-Hungary, Assassination in Sarajevo) Italy (see Croatia: Dalmatia, Zara, Fiume; History of Slovenia) Russia (see History of Serbia) -----Original Message----- From: Robert Jerin [mailto:[email protected]] Sent: 2. april 2005 17:58 To: [email protected] Subject: Re: [CROATIA-L] Lamb Roast Croatia and Slovenia are central European countries not Balkan countries. A well known phrase used when someone is crude or rude in Croatia is ti si Balkanac! Jerome Buza <[email protected]> wrote:We have several stores in Arizona that carry canned and packaged goods from Croatia and Slovenia and other Balkan countries and can get Bull's Blood wine from Egar at our Trader Joe's. Margaret ----- Original Message ----- From: "Lisa Kovach" To: Sent: Saturday, April 02, 2005 8:50 AM Subject: Re: [CROATIA-L] Lamb Roast > http://www.swua.org/food&wine/ Here's a site of stores in the USA that > sell croation foods. Lisa > From: Erika Curi > To: [email protected] > Sent: Saturday, April 02, 2005 9:35 AM > Subject: Re: [CROATIA-L] Lamb Roast > > > ANN SMETANA,CHARLES PINTAR ? > > > > > > > >Pray tell What Is "Smetana"? > >Nick > > > > > >----- Original Message ----- > >From: "Robert Jerin" > >To: > >Sent: Thursday, March 31, 2005 9:24 PM > >Subject: Re: [CROATIA-L] Lamb Roast > > > > > > > > _________________________________________________________________ > Charla con tus amigos en línea mediante MSN Messenger: > http://messenger.latam.msn.com/ > > > > -- > No virus found in this incoming message. > Checked by AVG Anti-Virus. > Version: 7.0.308 / Virus Database: 266.9.1 - Release Date: 4/1/2005 > > Interested in visting Croatia? Click on the link below to find out about a wonderful tour of Croatia! http://www.kollander-travel.com/