Nah, not in the last hundred years surely are any Slavic peoples volatile or nationalistic. Why, if they were politically concerned, or historically oppressed, these people from the Balkan states and counties and towns might have emigrated in wholesale lots, either just before or just after a whole lot of wars, which of course haven't happened in the last hundred years either. Now, stubborn, that you might get a lot of those ethnicities to agree on: not that they are. No, no, it's the Finns who are STUBBORN. Hoohoo, Ashley ----- Original Message ----- From: Karen Heiser To: [email protected] Sent: Sunday, April 03, 2005 3:40 PM Subject: Re: [CROATIA-L] Balkans Dear List - I think the point I was trying to make is that while logically we may all know about the Balkans, etc, in this area you have 100s of years of ethnic "bad feelings". Lumping us altogether under one name is NOT going to make that go away. Even in today's "enlightened" age (and several wars later) some of us are much more likely to label ourselves "Slavic" than "Balkan". And this is not intended to start another war...after all, we Slavic/Balkan peoples are kind of volatile! Karen Heiser Weed, Siskiyou, CA

Hi Tatjana I do think he is busy but also I think he is not interested now as the people from this village have asked him to keep out of their business with certain things, large companies from other countries had tried to open a thermo-electric plant and had to have it scrapped as they didnt want it operating and polluting the area. I'll have to wait till I get to croatia to see him myself Im sure he will help me then. regards Mary ----- Original Message ----- From: <[email protected]> To: <[email protected]> Sent: Sunday, April 03, 2005 1:53 PM Subject: Re: [CROATIA-L] Re: CROATIA-D Digest V05 #81 > Mary, maybe he is sick and unable to do it now. > Tatjana > > In a message dated 3/30/2005 11:13:35 PM Eastern Standard Time, > [email protected] writes: > > << one >> > Subj: RE: [CROATIA-L] Re: CROATIA-D Digest V05 #81 > Date: 3/30/2005 11:13:35 PM Eastern Standard Time > From: [email protected] (Maryanne Lawrie) > Reply-to: [email protected] > To: [email protected] > > Hello Anettka > > I am quite aware that the priest may be busy with more than one parish as I > have communcated with him in the past and my parents are familiar with the way > things are done in that part of Croatia but it would be nice of the priest to > write back either way to say what he can and can not do. I have received > emails from the priest with information on direct line from my father's side and > Tom on his visit to Croatia has visited him in the past on my behalf and on > all occasions I have sent him money for his troubles. I am one of the > unfortunate ones who would go to the LDS and hire films but the villages my parents and > their parents came from are not listed or recorded by the LDS. > > > regards > Mary > ____________________________________ > > -----Original Message----- > From: [email protected] [mailto:[email protected]] > Sent: Thursday, 31 March 2005 12:31 PM > To: [email protected] > Subject: [CROATIA-L] Re: CROATIA-D Digest V05 #81 > > > In a message dated 3/30/2005 5:57:10 PM Pacific Standard Time, Mary writes: > > Have contacted the priest a number of times to see if I can get both > grandmother's lines sent but he at this stage has not written back, > > Mary, > > You have to remember a couple things about the priest. First, they are in > short supply in any area they reside and often have to cover more than one > parishes, which means that they are busy doing the work they promised to God. > > Secondly, anything they do related to genealogy is if and when they have time > - > genealogy is not their primary interest; you can't expect them to provide > family > trees for you. > > If you wrote and asked about a specific person's records, what ever it is, > they may answer, but asking for a line might is probably more than they are > willing to take on.... It is always more incentive if there is a person > there who > can encourage them on or get the information once the priest provides a book, > or will give them a little for the church or take them to dinner to > encourage cooperation in the venture; I wouldn't expect much from them, not > only in > Croatia, or, based on past experience in other countries, more than a record > at > at time. > > Anettka > > > ________________________________________________________________ > This email and any attachments are confidential and/or contain > confidential information. If you are not the intended recipient > of this email, any use, interference with, disclosure or > copying of this material is unauthorised and prohibited. If you > have received this email in error please immediately advise the > sender by return email and delete this message from your system. > WALTER Construction Group (Administrators appointed) > ________________________________________________________________ > > > > > ----------------------- Headers -------------------------------- > Return-Path: <[email protected]> > Received: from rly-xg02.mx.aol.com (rly-xg02.mail.aol.com [172.20.115.199]) > by air-xg04.mail.aol.com (v104.18) with ESMTP id MAILINXG41-453424b78e556; > Wed, 30 Mar 2005 23:13:35 -0500 > Received: from lists5.rootsweb.com (lists5.rootsweb.com [66.43.18.41]) by > rly-xg02.mx.aol.com (v104.18) with ESMTP id MAILRELAYINXG27-453424b78e556; Wed, > 30 Mar 2005 23:13:25 -0500 > Received: (from [email protected]) > by lists5.rootsweb.com (8.12.8/8.12.8) id j2V4CgRY026104; > Wed, 30 Mar 2005 21:12:42 -0700 > Resent-Date: Wed, 30 Mar 2005 21:12:42 -0700 > X-Original-Sender: [email protected] Wed Mar 30 21:12:41 2005 > X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft Exchange V6.5.7226.0 > Content-class: urn:content-classes:message > MIME-Version: 1.0 > Content-Type: text/plain; > charset="iso-8859-1" > Subject: RE: [CROATIA-L] Re: CROATIA-D Digest V05 #81 > Date: Thu, 31 Mar 2005 14:12:34 +1000 > Message-ID: <[email protected]> > X-MS-Has-Attach: > X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: > Thread-Topic: [CROATIA-L] Re: CROATIA-D Digest V05 #81 > Thread-Index: AcU1md+8Xa9m/BCpQ5eMcbwI6xw3mgADGcuQ > From: "Maryanne Lawrie" <[email protected]> > Old-To: <[email protected]> > X-Scanned-By: MIMEDefang 2.38 > Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit > X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by lists5.rootsweb.com id > j2V4Cf6Q026082 > Resent-Message-ID: <[email protected]> > To: [email protected] > Resent-From: [email protected] > Reply-To: [email protected] > X-Mailing-List: <[email protected]> archive/latest/6845 > X-Loop: [email protected] > Precedence: list > Resent-Sender: [email protected] > X-AOL-IP: 66.43.18.41 > X-AOL-SCOLL-SCORE: 0:0:0: > X-AOL-SCOLL-URL_COUNT: 0 > >

Matt I am in Loves Park, near Rockford and the Border - where are you at. Dave On Sun, 3 Apr 2005 19:24:51 -0500 palocat <[email protected]> writes: > I have been wondering if those of you living in the Chicago area > could > tell me whether or not there is a good Croatian or Slovenian > restaurant > in Chicago -- if so, please let me know what your thoughts are -- > thanks.. > > I live in Wisconsin, but near the Illinois state line and am in > Chicago every month or so. Half of my heritage is Croatian (the > other > half is Finnish). I grew up with my Croatian grandparents, so > culturally (by ethnic background) I am Croatian, (I speak Croatian, > but > am getting rather rusty because I do not have anyone to converse > with > in the language) and I am quite familiar with the foods that have > been > discussed on this site. And, yes, my wife and I have been in > Croatia > (three years ago for 12 days), and we found it beautiful. We > visited > the towns where my grandparents were from (Delnice and Brod na Kupi) > > and were fascinated. It was an emotional experience for me. Stayed > at > the small family owned Mance Hotel in Brod na Kupi for several > nights. > It was fine and we were very well received, and the food was > outstanding! We also toured the Dalmatian coast all the way to > Dubrovnik, some of the national parks, and spent some time in > Zagreb > before returning by train to Graz, Austria. Loved it all in > Croatia, > and the roast lamb was wonderful. We plan to return in a year or > so. > . . . But, in late May (next month) we will be going to Finland so > I > can visit the towns that my Finnish grandparents called home. The > genealogy bug has bitten my wife and myself quite sharply -- we just > > regret that we did not really listen to all of our respective family > > histories and file the information away. But, as the saying goes, > genealogy is not generally for the young, as they have other fish to > > fry. > > Thanks, > > Matt, in southern Wisconsin. > > >

Matt; where in Wisconsin do you live? The wife is from Wis. and we will be going through that part of the state this summer on our way to West Bend to visit her Sister. Wife is mixed and I am Cro, she 72 , I am 75. Will be stopping at the Warehouse for Belly Flops on the way up. Nick Haramija ----- Original Message ----- From: "palocat" <[email protected]> To: <[email protected]> Sent: Sunday, April 03, 2005 8:24 PM Subject: [CROATIA-L] Restaurant???? I have been wondering if those of you living in the Chicago area could tell me whether or not there is a good Croatian or Slovenian restaurant in Chicago -- if so, please let me know what your thoughts are -- thanks.. I live in Wisconsin, but near the Illinois state line and am in Chicago every month or so. Half of my heritage is Croatian (the other half is Finnish). I grew up with my Croatian grandparents, so culturally (by ethnic background) I am Croatian, (I speak Croatian, but am getting rather rusty because I do not have anyone to converse with in the language) and I am quite familiar with the foods that have been discussed on this site. And, yes, my wife and I have been in Croatia (three years ago for 12 days), and we found it beautiful. We visited the towns where my grandparents were from (Delnice and Brod na Kupi) and were fascinated. It was an emotional experience for me. Stayed at the small family owned Mance Hotel in Brod na Kupi for several nights. It was fine and we were very well received, and the food was outstanding! We also toured the Dalmatian coast all the way to Dubrovnik, some of the national parks, and spent some time in Zagreb before returning by train to Graz, Austria. Loved it all in Croatia, and the roast lamb was wonderful. We plan to return in a year or so. . . . But, in late May (next month) we will be going to Finland so I can visit the towns that my Finnish grandparents called home. The genealogy bug has bitten my wife and myself quite sharply -- we just regret that we did not really listen to all of our respective family histories and file the information away. But, as the saying goes, genealogy is not generally for the young, as they have other fish to fry. Thanks, Matt, in southern Wisconsin.

Chicago's only Croatian restaurant, is tucked away on Western Avenue near Bryn Mawr, in a neighborhood dominated by historical Rosehill Cemetery and a number of car dealerships. Tables are set outside Caf Croatia among cheerful flower planters during warmer months. To really appreciate the food in the proper surroundings, it's best to pass through the smoky bar in the front of Caf Croatia to the charming upper level. This cozy inn-like setting is decorated with linen table cloths, china table settings, and folksy wood carvings and paintings on the walls. Check out free candid reviews for Chicago. Also, get the latest weather for Chicago. Find all kinds of Restaurants in Chicago with Verizon SuperPages.com. Location 5726 N. Western Av. Chicago Illinois 60659 Phone 773 276-2842 Fax 773 276-2842 Website http://www.cafecroatia.com

Thank you Robert Tatjana

My mom and grandma made a soup that they called "Krumpira Tarskal". Not sure what the correct word for Tarskal is as I have never found it in a cookbook. It was like a seasoned mashed potato in a thick noodle dough and they browned bread crumbs and cooked the dumplings and breadcrumbs in the pot that the potatoes had been cooked in with onions. They were yummy and my kids and I love it. I only tried to make it once and had a mess and am determined to try it again soon. Does anyone have any soup recipes that sound like this? Margaret ----- Original Message ----- From: "ashley tiwara" <[email protected]> To: <[email protected]> Sent: Sunday, April 03, 2005 7:43 PM Subject: [CROATIA-L] Mlinci and turnovers, please >A good story, Robert, and, Bill, I also saved the mlinci recipe, but could >someone kindly start a discussion of turnovers and stuffed dumplings, ban >cuon or ravioli, whatever? I eat them hot or cold. > > Ashley > ----- Original Message ----- > From: Robert Jerin > To: [email protected] > Sent: Sunday, April 03, 2005 5:56 PM > Subject: Re: [CROATIA-L] Mlinci > > > Bill, > > I am very fond of Vietnamese, especially bun Cha#777; giò and cafe su da > for dessert. That brings up a genealogically related point, well kind of. > When we lived in "The Cities" we befriended a family who owned several > restuarants. The husband had worked for the US distributing corn oil to > the villagers, seems lard was thier main oil until the US got there. They > were quite the family, the wife spoke little English. But they would sit > with us when we ate there... they used us to describe the new dishes they > put on their menu. They had 4 children all attending U of M in math and > science programs... that was expected by Mr. Ngoc! He lamented the fact > that his children were becoming American and were not interested in their > family history. I assured him that in later life they would find that > interest. When the first grandson was born we were invited to their > restuarant which they had closed on the day of the baptism. We lost > contact with them but I can still recall,! > s! > itting > and drinking cafe su da (sp?) with Mr Ngoc while he chain smoked his > Pall Malls! I learned that orientals, in general, have strong families, > at least the ones I have known. > > Guess I am like the old man I once met who commented that he only liked 2 > kinds of pies.... they were ... hot and cold :) > > Robert > > > > > > > -- > No virus found in this incoming message. > Checked by AVG Anti-Virus. > Version: 7.0.308 / Virus Database: 266.9.1 - Release Date: 4/1/2005 > >

Bill, That is what I like about this group. I learn so much about my ancestors and the culture and history. I would not know it if Robert did not take the time and others here to explain it and give us links to go and check things out for ourselves. Thanks Robert for teaching us a little history lesson along the way. Joy ----- Original Message ----- From: "William F Kane" <[email protected]> To: <[email protected]> Sent: Sunday, April 03, 2005 4:53 PM Subject: Re: [CROATIA-L] Mlinci > Robert, > I loved your story of the restaurant in Twin Cities. My daughter in law > is Vietnamese. They have a dedication to learning. When the family came > here as refugees her father could not find work so the mother worked in > an electronics factory while he stayed home and saw that the family all > got a good education checking homework, talking to teachers, volunteering > at school, etc. A few years later the family started a restaurant that > became very successful. My daughter in law got her MA in electrical > engineering before she was twenty. My grandson is now taking college > level courses for credit in high school. > I don't know how my mother in laws soup came out Zaftig Juan in my e-mail > it was supposed to be Zafrigana Juha. I think it was my spell check that > did it. Sorry. > As a professional geographer I have promised myself to stay out of the > Balkan argument. But I must say you are all right. The Balkans have no > definite boundaries and anyone writing about the area seems to just > decide on their own what areas to write about. Just say it is an > indefinite area in Southeastern Europe. All I can say is that Grandma > Santek (with a mark over the S) almost went into mourning when one of her > daughters married a Serb. She still did not talk kindly of him up to the > time of her death. Nothing against the Serbs but I must say this was not > a good man as he turned out to be a wife abuser. Of course grandma blamed > it on his being a Serb. > We are getting away from genealogy but history and geography and culture > are all part of learning about our past. > Bill Kane >

Hi again, At present the dad and mom are doing the cooking and they have a helper with the sausage making and their son, Richard, and another young man are working out front. Richard is only in his 20's and the parents are probably near 50 now. Still young. There are other places in Phoenix like Stanley's and they are in the Yellow Pages. Margaret ----- Original Message ----- From: "ashley tiwara" <[email protected]> To: <[email protected]> Sent: Sunday, April 03, 2005 7:38 PM Subject: [CROATIA-L] Phoenix deli > Could you please reassure this list -- I've never been to Phoenix and it > may take me a while longer -- that when we do finally make it to this deli > that the business will still be there? Are the children or grandchildren > willing to put in the long hours or perhaps one of the employees will take > over the shop? > > AAAggh, the refrigerator is calling out to me, > and all I've got at home are 8 tamales and a papa relleno, > Ashley > ----- Original Message ----- > From: Jerome Buza > To: [email protected] > Sent: Sunday, April 03, 2005 4:04 PM > Subject: Re: [CROATIA-L] zeludac pate > > > Sandra, Best of Europe Meats and Deli is located at 32nd Street and > Greenway > in Phoenix. Coming from Nevada you would get on the 101 freeway, head > east, > get off at the 51 freeway and then at Greenway road. Turn west and it > will > be the first or second driveway on the right hand side. It is a funny > shopping center and there is a group of stores near the McDonald's > sitting > by themselves and that is where the deli is. Plan to get a sandwich > while > there. They have a garlic-pepper pork sandwich on rye that is > wonderful - > to die for Their phone number is 602 493 1973. They usually have their > own > hot dogs, too, and you'll never want to eat any other after eating them. > If > you go there, tell them that Margaret and JB sent you. Our pictures are > up > on their wall and we used to work for them. They speak Polish and > English. > Margaret > > > > -- > No virus found in this incoming message. > Checked by AVG Anti-Virus. > Version: 7.0.308 / Virus Database: 266.9.1 - Release Date: 4/1/2005 > >

I have been wondering if those of you living in the Chicago area could tell me whether or not there is a good Croatian or Slovenian restaurant in Chicago -- if so, please let me know what your thoughts are -- thanks.. I live in Wisconsin, but near the Illinois state line and am in Chicago every month or so. Half of my heritage is Croatian (the other half is Finnish). I grew up with my Croatian grandparents, so culturally (by ethnic background) I am Croatian, (I speak Croatian, but am getting rather rusty because I do not have anyone to converse with in the language) and I am quite familiar with the foods that have been discussed on this site. And, yes, my wife and I have been in Croatia (three years ago for 12 days), and we found it beautiful. We visited the towns where my grandparents were from (Delnice and Brod na Kupi) and were fascinated. It was an emotional experience for me. Stayed at the small family owned Mance Hotel in Brod na Kupi for several nights. It was fine and we were very well received, and the food was outstanding! We also toured the Dalmatian coast all the way to Dubrovnik, some of the national parks, and spent some time in Zagreb before returning by train to Graz, Austria. Loved it all in Croatia, and the roast lamb was wonderful. We plan to return in a year or so. . . . But, in late May (next month) we will be going to Finland so I can visit the towns that my Finnish grandparents called home. The genealogy bug has bitten my wife and myself quite sharply -- we just regret that we did not really listen to all of our respective family histories and file the information away. But, as the saying goes, genealogy is not generally for the young, as they have other fish to fry. Thanks, Matt, in southern Wisconsin.

Robert, I love Croatia and many of my mother's cousins are missing since the last upheaval. However, my Croatian relatives that went to Germany are now afraid to go there as Serbians moved into their homes and took over their possessions. However, I can't go around hating people or mistrusting people. I have to feel that God will take care of the bad apples. Many of my relatives that remained in Croatia married Germans, Serbians, and other nationalities. We need to follow Pope John Paul II's example. I lived in Turkey for two years while the Turks and the Greeks were fighting and we had to cover our windows and couldn't have a Christmas tree in view of others in our apartment and had to stop at road blocks. My children were picked on by the Turkish kids when the US cut off aid to Turkey. I know a little about not always being in free America. Margaret ----- Original Message ----- From: "Robert Jerin" <[email protected]> To: <[email protected]> Sent: Sunday, April 03, 2005 4:32 PM Subject: Re: [CROATIA-L] Balkans > Margaret, > > Well it is not the US, so maybe if we had to live with that and be > controlled by larger forces then we may understand. It is important for > all of us to speak up for Croatia. > > Robert > Jerome Buza <[email protected]> wrote: > They may not have liked it (I had never heard this before), but it seems > to > be in the history books. I don't know why it is so bad as we are all > children of God andf that is what is important. It is almost like "sticks > and stones will break my bones, but names will never hurt me". > Margaret > ----- Original Message ----- > From: " Karen Heiser" > To: > Sent: Sunday, April 03, 2005 1:39 AM > Subject: Re: [CROATIA-L] Balkans > > >> Dear List - the sound you hear is my Grandmother, rolling over in her >> grave. >> If she was able to partake in THIS discussion, all 4 ft. 11 ins. of her >> would be in your face! I agree with Robert, being called a Balkan was not >> a >> good thing to most Croatians. >> Karen Heiser >> Weed, Siskiyou, CA >> ----- Original Message ----- >> From: "Jerome Buza" >> To: >> Sent: Saturday, April 02, 2005 10:46 PM >> Subject: [CROATIA-L] Balkans >> >> >>> Encyclopedia >>> > >>> > Balkan Peninsula >>> > >>> > Balkan Peninsula, southeasternmost peninsula of Europe, c.200,000 sq >>> > mi >>> > (518,000 sq km), bounded by the Black Sea, Sea of Marmara, Aegean Sea, >>> > Mediterranean Sea, Ionian Sea, and Adriatic Sea. Although there is no >>> > sharp physiographic separation between the peninsula and Central >>> > Europe, >>> > the line of the Sava and Danube rivers is commonly considered as the >>> > region's northern limit. The Balkan Peninsula therefore includes most >>> > of >>> > Slovenia, Croatia, and Serbia and Montenegro, Bosnia and Hercegovina, >>> > Albania, Macedonia, continental Greece (including the Peloponnesus), >>> > Bulgaria, European Turkey, and SE Romania. These countries, successors >> to >>> > the Ottoman Empire, are called the Balkan States. Historically and >>> > politically the region extends north of this line to include all of >>> > Slovenia, Croatia, Serbia and Montenegro, and Romania. >>> > >>> > >>> > >>> > -- >>> > No virus found in this incoming message. >>> > Checked by AVG Anti-Virus. >>> > Version: 7.0.308 / Virus Database: 266.9.1 - Release Date: 4/1/2005 >>> > >>> > >>> >>> >>> >>> -- >>> No virus found in this incoming message. >>> Checked by AVG Anti-Virus. >>> Version: 7.0.308 / Virus Database: 266.9.1 - Release >>> >>> >> >> >> >> >> -- >> No virus found in this incoming message. >> Checked by AVG Anti-Virus. >> Version: 7.0.308 / Virus Database: 266.9.1 - Release Date: 4/1/2005 >> >> > > > > Interested in visting Croatia? Click on the link below to find out about > a wonderful tour of Croatia! > > http://www.kollander-travel.com/ > > > > -- > No virus found in this incoming message. > Checked by AVG Anti-Virus. > Version: 7.0.308 / Virus Database: 266.9.1 - Release Date: 4/1/2005 >

Congratulations!! It feels so good when we find things that we thought were impossible. Margaret ----- Original Message ----- From: "William F Kane" <[email protected]> To: <[email protected]> Sent: Sunday, April 03, 2005 1:10 PM Subject: Re: [CROATIA-L] > For those interested in Sanja Frigan-Ciuha, > Before I left for Australia I asked Sanja to do some research on Sylvia's > g.g.grandfather because I could find no records from Salt Lake. When I > returned a month later she had completed a preliminary search and > discovered some information taking us back another generation. as well as > his birth record and the birth record of her g.grandfather which we > didn't have. Also we now have a listing of all of his children. > Her fees are modest and we are about to ask her to do phase two of the > search as she has just e-mailed me that she has found a new source that > should have more details. Her e-mail is [email protected] > Good luck, > Bill Kane > > > > -- > No virus found in this incoming message. > Checked by AVG Anti-Virus. > Version: 7.0.308 / Virus Database: 266.9.1 - Release Date: 4/1/2005 > >

Robert, I loved your story of the restaurant in Twin Cities. My daughter in law is Vietnamese. They have a dedication to learning. When the family came here as refugees her father could not find work so the mother worked in an electronics factory while he stayed home and saw that the family all got a good education checking homework, talking to teachers, volunteering at school, etc. A few years later the family started a restaurant that became very successful. My daughter in law got her MA in electrical engineering before she was twenty. My grandson is now taking college level courses for credit in high school. I don't know how my mother in laws soup came out Zaftig Juan in my e-mail it was supposed to be Zafrigana Juha. I think it was my spell check that did it. Sorry. As a professional geographer I have promised myself to stay out of the Balkan argument. But I must say you are all right. The Balkans have no definite boundaries and anyone writing about the area seems to just decide on their own what areas to write about. Just say it is an indefinite area in Southeastern Europe. All I can say is that Grandma Santek (with a mark over the S) almost went into mourning when one of her daughters married a Serb. She still did not talk kindly of him up to the time of her death. Nothing against the Serbs but I must say this was not a good man as he turned out to be a wife abuser. Of course grandma blamed it on his being a Serb. We are getting away from genealogy but history and geography and culture are all part of learning about our past. Bill Kane

100s of years of ethnic "bad feelings" fits in the same category as "Balkan and Balkanize! that is the term is just an excuse for what the West did or did not do in 1991-1995! Those "bad feelings" really were not that bad until after 1918. Robert Karen Heiser <[email protected]> wrote: Dear List - I think the point I was trying to make is that while logically we may all know about the Balkans, etc, in this area you have 100s of years of ethnic "bad feelings". Lumping us altogether under one name is NOT going to make that go away. Even in today's "enlightened" age (and several wars later) some of us are much more likely to label ourselves "Slavic" than "Balkan". And this is not intended to start another war...after all, we Slavic/Balkan peoples are kind of volatile! Karen Heiser Weed, Siskiyou, CA ----- Original Message ----- From: "Jerome Buza" To: Sent: Sunday, April 03, 2005 8:53 AM Subject: Re: [CROATIA-L] Balkans > They may not have liked it (I had never heard this before), but it seems to > be in the history books. I don't know why it is so bad as we are all > children of God andf that is what is important. It is almost like "sticks > and stones will break my bones, but names will never hurt me". > Margaret > ----- Original Message ----- > From: " Karen Heiser" > To: > Sent: Sunday, April 03, 2005 1:39 AM > Subject: Re: [CROATIA-L] Balkans > > > > Dear List - the sound you hear is my Grandmother, rolling over in her > > grave. > > If she was able to partake in THIS discussion, all 4 ft. 11 ins. of her > > would be in your face! I agree with Robert, being called a Balkan was not > > a > > good thing to most Croatians. > > Karen Heiser > > Weed, Siskiyou, CA > > ----- Original Message ----- > > From: "Jerome Buza" > > To: > > Sent: Saturday, April 02, 2005 10:46 PM > > Subject: [CROATIA-L] Balkans > > > > > >> Encyclopedia > >> > > >> > Balkan Peninsula > >> > > >> > Balkan Peninsula, southeasternmost peninsula of Europe, c.200,000 sq mi > >> > (518,000 sq km), bounded by the Black Sea, Sea of Marmara, Aegean Sea, > >> > Mediterranean Sea, Ionian Sea, and Adriatic Sea. Although there is no > >> > sharp physiographic separation between the peninsula and Central > >> > Europe, > >> > the line of the Sava and Danube rivers is commonly considered as the > >> > region's northern limit. The Balkan Peninsula therefore includes most > >> > of > >> > Slovenia, Croatia, and Serbia and Montenegro, Bosnia and Hercegovina, > >> > Albania, Macedonia, continental Greece (including the Peloponnesus), > >> > Bulgaria, European Turkey, and SE Romania. These countries, successors > > to > >> > the Ottoman Empire, are called the Balkan States. Historically and > >> > politically the region extends north of this line to include all of > >> > Slovenia, Croatia, Serbia and Montenegro, and Romania. > >> > > >> > > >> > > >> > -- > >> > No virus found in this incoming message. > >> > Checked by AVG Anti-Virus. > >> > Version: 7.0.308 / Virus Database: 266.9.1 - Release Date: 4/1/2005 > >> > > >> > > >> > >> > >> > >> -- > >> No virus found in this incoming message. > >> Checked by AVG Anti-Virus. > >> Version: 7.0.308 / Virus Database: 266.9.1 - Release > >> > >> > > > > > > > > > > -- > > No virus found in this incoming message. > > Checked by AVG Anti-Virus. > > Version: 7.0.308 / Virus Database: 266.9.1 - Release Date: 4/1/2005 > > > > > > Interested in visting Croatia? Click on the link below to find out about a wonderful tour of Croatia! http://www.kollander-travel.com/

Actually Croatians and Serbians relations was not bad until just after the founding of SHS With all due respect to Nenad, perhaps those of us who have had more than a casual relationship with Croatia, the war and her drive for independence have a feel for this better than others Here is a link to an article from Michael McAdams book, Croatia-Myth and Reality. http://mirror.veus.hr/myth/firstyugo.html Robert Karen Heiser <[email protected]> wrote: Dear List - I think the point I was trying to make is that while logically we may all know about the Balkans, etc, in this area you have 100s of years of ethnic "bad feelings". Lumping us altogether under one name is NOT going to make that go away. Even in today's "enlightened" age (and several wars later) some of us are much more likely to label ourselves "Slavic" than "Balkan". And this is not intended to start another war...after all, we Slavic/Balkan peoples are kind of volatile! Karen Heiser Weed, Siskiyou, CA ----- Original Message ----- From: "Jerome Buza" To: Sent: Sunday, April 03, 2005 8:53 AM Subject: Re: [CROATIA-L] Balkans > They may not have liked it (I had never heard this before), but it seems to > be in the history books. I don't know why it is so bad as we are all > children of God andf that is what is important. It is almost like "sticks > and stones will break my bones, but names will never hurt me". > Margaret > ----- Original Message ----- > From: " Karen Heiser" > To: > Sent: Sunday, April 03, 2005 1:39 AM > Subject: Re: [CROATIA-L] Balkans > > > > Dear List - the sound you hear is my Grandmother, rolling over in her > > grave. > > If she was able to partake in THIS discussion, all 4 ft. 11 ins. of her > > would be in your face! I agree with Robert, being called a Balkan was not > > a > > good thing to most Croatians. > > Karen Heiser > > Weed, Siskiyou, CA > > ----- Original Message ----- > > From: "Jerome Buza" > > To: > > Sent: Saturday, April 02, 2005 10:46 PM > > Subject: [CROATIA-L] Balkans > > > > > >> Encyclopedia > >> > > >> > Balkan Peninsula > >> > > >> > Balkan Peninsula, southeasternmost peninsula of Europe, c.200,000 sq mi > >> > (518,000 sq km), bounded by the Black Sea, Sea of Marmara, Aegean Sea, > >> > Mediterranean Sea, Ionian Sea, and Adriatic Sea. Although there is no > >> > sharp physiographic separation between the peninsula and Central > >> > Europe, > >> > the line of the Sava and Danube rivers is commonly considered as the > >> > region's northern limit. The Balkan Peninsula therefore includes most > >> > of > >> > Slovenia, Croatia, and Serbia and Montenegro, Bosnia and Hercegovina, > >> > Albania, Macedonia, continental Greece (including the Peloponnesus), > >> > Bulgaria, European Turkey, and SE Romania. These countries, successors > > to > >> > the Ottoman Empire, are called the Balkan States. Historically and > >> > politically the region extends north of this line to include all of > >> > Slovenia, Croatia, Serbia and Montenegro, and Romania. > >> > > >> > > >> > > >> > -- > >> > No virus found in this incoming message. > >> > Checked by AVG Anti-Virus. > >> > Version: 7.0.308 / Virus Database: 266.9.1 - Release Date: 4/1/2005 > >> > > >> > > >> > >> > >> > >> -- > >> No virus found in this incoming message. > >> Checked by AVG Anti-Virus. > >> Version: 7.0.308 / Virus Database: 266.9.1 - Release > >> > >> > > > > > > > > > > -- > > No virus found in this incoming message. > > Checked by AVG Anti-Virus. > > Version: 7.0.308 / Virus Database: 266.9.1 - Release Date: 4/1/2005 > > > > > > Interested in visting Croatia? Click on the link below to find out about a wonderful tour of Croatia! http://www.kollander-travel.com/

Karen, are you implying that Slavic people instead of Balkan people live in harmony? Good news! Tatjana

Dear Tatjana, Well stated! Robert [email protected] wrote: In a message dated 4/3/2005 4:58:50 AM Eastern Daylight Time, [email protected] writes: << Subj: Re: [CROATIA-L] Balkans Date: 4/3/2005 4:58:50 AM Eastern Daylight Time From: [email protected] Reply-to: [email protected] To: [email protected] Are we talking about geography or "the West's" effort to malign people from the region which they repeatedly deliberately invaded and pillaged? Karen, your granma should rest in piece whether she is supposed to come from "the Balkans" or London. Holocaust and witchburnings did not originate in "the Balkans". And when the Dutch behaved as they did (Srebrenica) was it the fault of "the Balkans" or the people who tolerated horrible events regardless of in which part of Europe they originated? When- many years ago- I learned about the French word "balcaniser", I did not feel shamed. I was offended and resentful. Many dictionaries could be enriched by inventing words referring to the French behaviour throughout history. But this would lead nowhere. Rather be proud of your people's contributions than worry about other people's prejudices. This brings me to lambroast again. Nobody mentioned that it refers to "licki janjac", lets give credit to Lika! (whether it is in "the Balkans" or southeasteurope) Tatjana n a message dated 4/3/2005 12:40:39 A.M. Pacific Standard Time, [email protected] writes: the sound you hear is my Grandmother, rolling over in her grave. If she was able to partake in THIS discussion, all 4 ft. 11 ins. of her would be in your face! I agree with Robert, being called a Balkan was not a good thing to most Croatians. Karen Heiser Weed, Siskiyou, CA So THAT is what I was hearing! Clear down here in southern California!! I shall be very, very careful in what I say!! Sharon Dulcich Bakersfield, Kern Co., CA Interested in visting Croatia? Click on the link below to find out about a wonderful tour of Croatia! http://www.kollander-travel.com/

Margaret, Well it is not the US, so maybe if we had to live with that and be controlled by larger forces then we may understand. It is important for all of us to speak up for Croatia. Robert Jerome Buza <[email protected]> wrote: They may not have liked it (I had never heard this before), but it seems to be in the history books. I don't know why it is so bad as we are all children of God andf that is what is important. It is almost like "sticks and stones will break my bones, but names will never hurt me". Margaret ----- Original Message ----- From: " Karen Heiser" To: Sent: Sunday, April 03, 2005 1:39 AM Subject: Re: [CROATIA-L] Balkans > Dear List - the sound you hear is my Grandmother, rolling over in her > grave. > If she was able to partake in THIS discussion, all 4 ft. 11 ins. of her > would be in your face! I agree with Robert, being called a Balkan was not > a > good thing to most Croatians. > Karen Heiser > Weed, Siskiyou, CA > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Jerome Buza" > To: > Sent: Saturday, April 02, 2005 10:46 PM > Subject: [CROATIA-L] Balkans > > >> Encyclopedia >> > >> > Balkan Peninsula >> > >> > Balkan Peninsula, southeasternmost peninsula of Europe, c.200,000 sq mi >> > (518,000 sq km), bounded by the Black Sea, Sea of Marmara, Aegean Sea, >> > Mediterranean Sea, Ionian Sea, and Adriatic Sea. Although there is no >> > sharp physiographic separation between the peninsula and Central >> > Europe, >> > the line of the Sava and Danube rivers is commonly considered as the >> > region's northern limit. The Balkan Peninsula therefore includes most >> > of >> > Slovenia, Croatia, and Serbia and Montenegro, Bosnia and Hercegovina, >> > Albania, Macedonia, continental Greece (including the Peloponnesus), >> > Bulgaria, European Turkey, and SE Romania. These countries, successors > to >> > the Ottoman Empire, are called the Balkan States. Historically and >> > politically the region extends north of this line to include all of >> > Slovenia, Croatia, Serbia and Montenegro, and Romania. >> > >> > >> > >> > -- >> > No virus found in this incoming message. >> > Checked by AVG Anti-Virus. >> > Version: 7.0.308 / Virus Database: 266.9.1 - Release Date: 4/1/2005 >> > >> > >> >> >> >> -- >> No virus found in this incoming message. >> Checked by AVG Anti-Virus. >> Version: 7.0.308 / Virus Database: 266.9.1 - Release >> >> > > > > > -- > No virus found in this incoming message. > Checked by AVG Anti-Virus. > Version: 7.0.308 / Virus Database: 266.9.1 - Release Date: 4/1/2005 > > Interested in visting Croatia? Click on the link below to find out about a wonderful tour of Croatia! http://www.kollander-travel.com/

In a message dated 4/2/2005 5:10:52 PM Pacific Daylight Time, [email protected] writes: Up to about 10 years ago, I could get the casings to make the kielbasa and still know where I can get them, but I buy all that stuff instead of making it at a place here in AZ called Best of Europe Meats and Deli. They make all their own sausages and many lunchmeats and have smoked ribs and slab bacon. PLEASE, tell me where this is located! I live in Nevada and would certainly drive the distance for 'fresh' sausages. Thank you, Sandra [email protected]_ (mailto:[email protected])

tako, tako! Karen Heiser <[email protected]> wrote:Dear List - the sound you hear is my Grandmother, rolling over in her grave. If she was able to partake in THIS discussion, all 4 ft. 11 ins. of her would be in your face! I agree with Robert, being called a Balkan was not a good thing to most Croatians. Karen Heiser Weed, Siskiyou, CA ----- Original Message ----- From: "Jerome Buza" To: Sent: Saturday, April 02, 2005 10:46 PM Subject: [CROATIA-L] Balkans > Encyclopedia > > > > Balkan Peninsula > > > > Balkan Peninsula, southeasternmost peninsula of Europe, c.200,000 sq mi > > (518,000 sq km), bounded by the Black Sea, Sea of Marmara, Aegean Sea, > > Mediterranean Sea, Ionian Sea, and Adriatic Sea. Although there is no > > sharp physiographic separation between the peninsula and Central Europe, > > the line of the Sava and Danube rivers is commonly considered as the > > region's northern limit. The Balkan Peninsula therefore includes most of > > Slovenia, Croatia, and Serbia and Montenegro, Bosnia and Hercegovina, > > Albania, Macedonia, continental Greece (including the Peloponnesus), > > Bulgaria, European Turkey, and SE Romania. These countries, successors to > > the Ottoman Empire, are called the Balkan States. Historically and > > politically the region extends north of this line to include all of > > Slovenia, Croatia, Serbia and Montenegro, and Romania. > > > > > > > > -- > > No virus found in this incoming message. > > Checked by AVG Anti-Virus. > > Version: 7.0.308 / Virus Database: 266.9.1 - Release Date: 4/1/2005 > > > > > > > > -- > No virus found in this incoming message. > Checked by AVG Anti-Virus. > Version: 7.0.308 / Virus Database: 266.9.1 - Release > > Interested in visting Croatia? Click on the link below to find out about a wonderful tour of Croatia! http://www.kollander-travel.com/