My Croatian, Polish, German, Slovenian son irons his own shirts and sews on his own buttons and loves to cook. His wife takes care of the yard and the animals. They are happy and that is what is important. Margaret ----- Original Message ----- From: <[email protected]> To: <[email protected]> Sent: Sunday, April 24, 2005 7:57 AM Subject: Re: [CROATIA-L] Girls and boys > Robert you are behind times. Learn about drip-dry. > Tatjana > > > > In a message dated 4/24/2005 10:53:51 AM Eastern Daylight Time, > [email protected] writes: > > << Subj: Re: [CROATIA-L] Girls and boys > Date: 4/24/2005 10:53:51 AM Eastern Daylight Time > From: [email protected] (Robert Jerin) > Reply-to: [email protected] > To: [email protected] > > A Croatian friend of mine (who is working on her Phd) and who is married > for > 40+ years often quotes an old Croatian saying, which goes something like > this > "you can tell much by a marriage by the press of a Croatian man's shirt > and > the smile on a Croatian womans face"... which told much about how they > cared > for one another.... > > Robert > > dave mothkovich <[email protected]> wrote: > How I miss the family get togethers, Grandma, Mom, my aunts and sisters > and cousins in the kitchen cooking, or talking.. and leaving us poor ole > men to our naps. > Dave > > > On Sun, 24 Apr 2005 01:39:51 -0500 ashley tiwara > writes: > > The traditional difference between men and boys is the price of their > > toys. > > Kostati svoje igra? > > > > Ashley > > > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > From: [email protected] > > To: [email protected] > > Sent: Sunday, April 24, 2005 12:39 AM > > Subject: [CROATIA-L] Girls and boys > > > > > > Boys go to wars, dates go to proms, but men go to coppermines and > > steelmills. > > Girls can do anything, no need for women! > > > > > > > > > > Interested in visting Croatia? Click on the link below to find out about > a > wonderful tour of Croatia! > > http://www.kollander-travel.com/ > > > > ----------------------- Headers -------------------------------- > Return-Path: <[email protected]> > Received: from rly-yi06.mx.aol.com (rly-yi06.mail.aol.com > [172.18.180.134]) > by air-yi02.mail.aol.com (v105.26) with ESMTP id MAILINYI21-7e0426bb2f121; > Sun, 24 Apr 2005 10:53:51 -0400 > Received: from lists5.rootsweb.com (lists5.rootsweb.com [66.43.18.41]) by > rly-yi06.mx.aol.com (v105.26) with ESMTP id > MAILRELAYINYI610-7e0426bb2f121; > Sun, 24 Apr 2005 10:53:38 -0400 > Received: (from [email protected]) > by lists5.rootsweb.com (8.12.8/8.12.8) id j3OErAPa022105; > Sun, 24 Apr 2005 08:53:10 -0600 > Resent-Date: Sun, 24 Apr 2005 08:53:10 -0600 > X-Original-Sender: [email protected] Sun Apr 24 08:53:10 2005 > Comment: DomainKeys? See http://antispam.yahoo.com/domainkeys > DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; q=dns; c=nofws; > s=s1024; d=yahoo.com; > > b=Ui/3CxzmJdMtV6VQZ1fdseK3QZ4jc5fvr1aJV9RSF8D4BegSqLgwSDn3AYO13w7AjqCAz7Fy/WwwxwTLJUTsaRH4+mmEfF2XVGzgHp2vXoZypDKVffw9/lGuHhVRmdB5Jj3xnuwTNbAs78hsUjywA1G > TPt4eDJBDLG+xjTYZ8s8= ; > Message-ID: <[email protected]> > Date: Sun, 24 Apr 2005 07:53:06 -0700 (PDT) > From: Robert Jerin <[email protected]> > Subject: Re: [CROATIA-L] Girls and boys > Old-To: [email protected] > In-Reply-To: 6667 > MIME-Version: 1.0 > Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii > X-Scanned-By: MIMEDefang 2.38 > Resent-Message-ID: <[email protected]> > To: [email protected] > Resent-From: [email protected] > Reply-To: [email protected] > X-Mailing-List: <[email protected]> archive/latest/7178 > X-Loop: [email protected] > Precedence: list > Resent-Sender: [email protected] > X-AOL-IP: 66.43.18.41 > X-AOL-SCOLL-SCORE: 0:2:457604518:9395241 > X-AOL-SCOLL-URL_COUNT: 0 > > >> > > > > -- > No virus found in this incoming message. > Checked by AVG Anti-Virus. > Version: 7.0.308 / Virus Database: 266.10.2 - Release Date: 4/21/2005 > >

Robert you are behind times. Learn about drip-dry. Tatjana In a message dated 4/24/2005 10:53:51 AM Eastern Daylight Time, [email protected] writes: << Subj: Re: [CROATIA-L] Girls and boys Date: 4/24/2005 10:53:51 AM Eastern Daylight Time From: [email protected] (Robert Jerin) Reply-to: [email protected] To: [email protected] A Croatian friend of mine (who is working on her Phd) and who is married for 40+ years often quotes an old Croatian saying, which goes something like this "you can tell much by a marriage by the press of a Croatian man's shirt and the smile on a Croatian womans face"... which told much about how they cared for one another.... Robert dave mothkovich <[email protected]> wrote: How I miss the family get togethers, Grandma, Mom, my aunts and sisters and cousins in the kitchen cooking, or talking.. and leaving us poor ole men to our naps. Dave On Sun, 24 Apr 2005 01:39:51 -0500 ashley tiwara writes: > The traditional difference between men and boys is the price of their > toys. > Kostati svoje igra? > > Ashley > > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: [email protected] > To: [email protected] > Sent: Sunday, April 24, 2005 12:39 AM > Subject: [CROATIA-L] Girls and boys > > > Boys go to wars, dates go to proms, but men go to coppermines and > steelmills. > Girls can do anything, no need for women! > > > Interested in visting Croatia? Click on the link below to find out about a wonderful tour of Croatia! http://www.kollander-travel.com/ ----------------------- Headers -------------------------------- Return-Path: <[email protected]> Received: from rly-yi06.mx.aol.com (rly-yi06.mail.aol.com [172.18.180.134]) by air-yi02.mail.aol.com (v105.26) with ESMTP id MAILINYI21-7e0426bb2f121; Sun, 24 Apr 2005 10:53:51 -0400 Received: from lists5.rootsweb.com (lists5.rootsweb.com [66.43.18.41]) by rly-yi06.mx.aol.com (v105.26) with ESMTP id MAILRELAYINYI610-7e0426bb2f121; Sun, 24 Apr 2005 10:53:38 -0400 Received: (from [email protected]) by lists5.rootsweb.com (8.12.8/8.12.8) id j3OErAPa022105; Sun, 24 Apr 2005 08:53:10 -0600 Resent-Date: Sun, 24 Apr 2005 08:53:10 -0600 X-Original-Sender: [email protected] Sun Apr 24 08:53:10 2005 Comment: DomainKeys? See http://antispam.yahoo.com/domainkeys DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; q=dns; c=nofws; s=s1024; d=yahoo.com; b=Ui/3CxzmJdMtV6VQZ1fdseK3QZ4jc5fvr1aJV9RSF8D4BegSqLgwSDn3AYO13w7AjqCAz7Fy/WwwxwTLJUTsaRH4+mmEfF2XVGzgHp2vXoZypDKVffw9/lGuHhVRmdB5Jj3xnuwTNbAs78hsUjywA1G TPt4eDJBDLG+xjTYZ8s8= ; Message-ID: <[email protected]> Date: Sun, 24 Apr 2005 07:53:06 -0700 (PDT) From: Robert Jerin <[email protected]> Subject: Re: [CROATIA-L] Girls and boys Old-To: [email protected] In-Reply-To: 6667 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Scanned-By: MIMEDefang 2.38 Resent-Message-ID: <[email protected]> To: [email protected] Resent-From: [email protected] Reply-To: [email protected] X-Mailing-List: <[email protected]> archive/latest/7178 X-Loop: [email protected] Precedence: list Resent-Sender: [email protected] X-AOL-IP: 66.43.18.41 X-AOL-SCOLL-SCORE: 0:2:457604518:9395241 X-AOL-SCOLL-URL_COUNT: 0 >>

How I miss the family get togethers, Grandma, Mom, my aunts and sisters and cousins in the kitchen cooking, or talking.. and leaving us poor ole men to our naps. Dave On Sun, 24 Apr 2005 01:39:51 -0500 ashley tiwara <[email protected]> writes: > The traditional difference between men and boys is the price of their > toys. > Kostati svoje igra? > > Ashley > > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: [email protected] > To: [email protected] > Sent: Sunday, April 24, 2005 12:39 AM > Subject: [CROATIA-L] Girls and boys > > > Boys go to wars, dates go to proms, but men go to coppermines and > steelmills. > Girls can do anything, no need for women! > > >

The difference between a man and a boy is about taking on responsibility for self, respect for others, and the courage to face lifes hardships, and willingness to share the rewards and pleasures of life with a spouse or a friend. Dave On Sun, 24 Apr 2005 01:39:51 -0500 ashley tiwara <[email protected]> writes: > The traditional difference between men and boys is the price of their > toys. > Kostati svoje igra? > > Ashley > > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: [email protected] > To: [email protected] > Sent: Sunday, April 24, 2005 12:39 AM > Subject: [CROATIA-L] Girls and boys > > > Boys go to wars, dates go to proms, but men go to coppermines and > steelmills. > Girls can do anything, no need for women! > > >

The cooking goes to culture, which I think is suitable to genealogy. It adds color to the leaves of the family tree. I plead mea culpa regarding a short discussion on gulf courses, during some chattiing on the board. I have a great deal of respect for the mothers who raised 10 children.. my mother did it, and 5 by herself after my father died. My mother worked on airplanes during WWII, and after dad died, supported the family by working in a saloon. She was proud of her ability as a mother , wife, and homemaker; and she felt insulted by feminists because she felt they were demeaning the work she did and insulting her chosen vocation. My mother felt that feminism would destroy families, and though I don't think it is fair to say it has been the sole culprit of our McWorld culture, certainly it plays a role in how families interact in society today.. not all good. When my mother learned what abortion was, and what partial birth abortion was she wept for hours wondering how women could destroy the most precious gifts they had, one - sharing in creation with God, and two - the unborn child itself. My mom was a football fan, a baseball fan, shared in my love of mysteries and law enforcement. She was a good detective herself having found were my father's mother had died and was buried; and getting useful information from her death record and the people who cared for her with almost nothing as a clue. All that before the information and technology age, which has made the task so much easier for me. Regardless of how sick we were or how tired she was she put all her energy into our care. My mother taught us right from wrong, and how to see through "creative logic" to discern immoral behavior, falsehood, malice and politic. All this from a heinz 57, kinda woman married to a hard working, stubborn, Croatian male. Go ahead and have your girl talk. Dave On Sun, 24 Apr 2005 01:33:49 EDT [email protected] writes: > We are often discussing history: the Croats, Slovenes, their > language, the > food they eat and cook. And I saw no complaints. But mention the > women (except > in their families' kitchens) and soon the girls are mentioned- is it > just > patronizing or? > Going through the US census reports I could not but wonder: how did > they do > it? 8, 10 children, husband going to the coppermines and a boarder > or 2 in the > apartement. All the while apparently they had no basic legal rights. > Are we > only interested in their gourmet cooking and the rights of Magyars > and the > language of Poles? but not the lifes of our gmothers? > Right on Ashley! > And the rest: please explain what do the recipes have to do with > genealogy as > you understand it? > Tatjana Former (glad to have been able to be accepted to medical > school and > to spend my own earnings with my own credit cards. And to vote!) > > >

Aha, but that is an old Croatian proverb! Not about our home today... where we have permanent press, which is washed by any of the 3 members of our household! Any non-permanent press hang for a long time before they are ironed... My wife's Rowenta is reserved for her projects :) Robert [email protected] wrote: Robert you are behind times. Learn about drip-dry. Tatjana In a message dated 4/24/2005 10:53:51 AM Eastern Daylight Time, [email protected] writes: << Subj: Re: [CROATIA-L] Girls and boys Date: 4/24/2005 10:53:51 AM Eastern Daylight Time From: [email protected] (Robert Jerin) Reply-to: [email protected] To: [email protected] A Croatian friend of mine (who is working on her Phd) and who is married for 40+ years often quotes an old Croatian saying, which goes something like this "you can tell much by a marriage by the press of a Croatian man's shirt and the smile on a Croatian womans face"... which told much about how they cared for one another.... Robert dave mothkovich wrote: How I miss the family get togethers, Grandma, Mom, my aunts and sisters and cousins in the kitchen cooking, or talking.. and leaving us poor ole men to our naps. Dave On Sun, 24 Apr 2005 01:39:51 -0500 ashley tiwara writes: > The traditional difference between men and boys is the price of their > toys. > Kostati svoje igra? > > Ashley > > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: [email protected] > To: [email protected] > Sent: Sunday, April 24, 2005 12:39 AM > Subject: [CROATIA-L] Girls and boys > > > Boys go to wars, dates go to proms, but men go to coppermines and > steelmills. > Girls can do anything, no need for women! > > > Interested in visting Croatia? Click on the link below to find out about a wonderful tour of Croatia! http://www.kollander-travel.com/ ----------------------- Headers -------------------------------- Return-Path: Received: from rly-yi06.mx.aol.com (rly-yi06.mail.aol.com [172.18.180.134]) by air-yi02.mail.aol.com (v105.26) with ESMTP id MAILINYI21-7e0426bb2f121; Sun, 24 Apr 2005 10:53:51 -0400 Received: from lists5.rootsweb.com (lists5.rootsweb.com [66.43.18.41]) by rly-yi06.mx.aol.com (v105.26) with ESMTP id MAILRELAYINYI610-7e0426bb2f121; Sun, 24 Apr 2005 10:53:38 -0400 Received: (from [email protected]) by lists5.rootsweb.com (8.12.8/8.12.8) id j3OErAPa022105; Sun, 24 Apr 2005 08:53:10 -0600 Resent-Date: Sun, 24 Apr 2005 08:53:10 -0600 X-Original-Sender: [email protected] Sun Apr 24 08:53:10 2005 Comment: DomainKeys? See http://antispam.yahoo.com/domainkeys DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; q=dns; c=nofws; s=s1024; d=yahoo.com; b=Ui/3CxzmJdMtV6VQZ1fdseK3QZ4jc5fvr1aJV9RSF8D4BegSqLgwSDn3AYO13w7AjqCAz7Fy/WwwxwTLJUTsaRH4+mmEfF2XVGzgHp2vXoZypDKVffw9/lGuHhVRmdB5Jj3xnuwTNbAs78hsUjywA1G TPt4eDJBDLG+xjTYZ8s8= ; Message-ID: <[email protected]> Date: Sun, 24 Apr 2005 07:53:06 -0700 (PDT) From: Robert Jerin Subject: Re: [CROATIA-L] Girls and boys Old-To: [email protected] In-Reply-To: 6667 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Scanned-By: MIMEDefang 2.38 Resent-Message-ID: <[email protected]> To: [email protected] Resent-From: [email protected] Reply-To: [email protected] X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/7178 X-Loop: [email protected] Precedence: list Resent-Sender: [email protected] X-AOL-IP: 66.43.18.41 X-AOL-SCOLL-SCORE: 0:2:457604518:9395241 X-AOL-SCOLL-URL_COUNT: 0 >> Interested in visting Croatia? Click on the link below to find out about a wonderful tour of Croatia! http://www.kollander-travel.com/

A Croatian friend of mine (who is working on her Phd) and who is married for 40+ years often quotes an old Croatian saying, which goes something like this "you can tell much by a marriage by the press of a Croatian man's shirt and the smile on a Croatian womans face"... which told much about how they cared for one another.... Robert dave mothkovich <[email protected]> wrote: How I miss the family get togethers, Grandma, Mom, my aunts and sisters and cousins in the kitchen cooking, or talking.. and leaving us poor ole men to our naps. Dave On Sun, 24 Apr 2005 01:39:51 -0500 ashley tiwara writes: > The traditional difference between men and boys is the price of their > toys. > Kostati svoje igra? > > Ashley > > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: [email protected] > To: [email protected] > Sent: Sunday, April 24, 2005 12:39 AM > Subject: [CROATIA-L] Girls and boys > > > Boys go to wars, dates go to proms, but men go to coppermines and > steelmills. > Girls can do anything, no need for women! > > > Interested in visting Croatia? Click on the link below to find out about a wonderful tour of Croatia! http://www.kollander-travel.com/

Ah but the men and boys around our place were busy roasting lambs and pigs! Naps came later :) Robert dave mothkovich <[email protected]> wrote: How I miss the family get togethers, Grandma, Mom, my aunts and sisters and cousins in the kitchen cooking, or talking.. and leaving us poor ole men to our naps. Dave On Sun, 24 Apr 2005 01:39:51 -0500 ashley tiwara writes: > The traditional difference between men and boys is the price of their > toys. > Kostati svoje igra? > > Ashley > > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: [email protected] > To: [email protected] > Sent: Sunday, April 24, 2005 12:39 AM > Subject: [CROATIA-L] Girls and boys > > > Boys go to wars, dates go to proms, but men go to coppermines and > steelmills. > Girls can do anything, no need for women! > > > Interested in visting Croatia? Click on the link below to find out about a wonderful tour of Croatia! http://www.kollander-travel.com/

Absolutely! And my Croatian grandfather did that till the day he died, along with my Croatian grandmother... both of whom raised their 7 children and lived to see their grandchildren grow into their teen years... my grandmother lived to see several greatgrandchildren... hard working, kind, loving woman... not an easy life having a miner husband who died from lung ailments and a couple of children who died before she did... I can tell you that she (via my mother) was responsible for most of my values that I hold today. Robert dave mothkovich <[email protected]> wrote: The difference between a man and a boy is about taking on responsibility for self, respect for others, and the courage to face lifes hardships, and willingness to share the rewards and pleasures of life with a spouse or a friend. Dave On Sun, 24 Apr 2005 01:39:51 -0500 ashley tiwara writes: > The traditional difference between men and boys is the price of their > toys. > Kostati svoje igra? > > Ashley > > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: [email protected] > To: [email protected] > Sent: Sunday, April 24, 2005 12:39 AM > Subject: [CROATIA-L] Girls and boys > > > Boys go to wars, dates go to proms, but men go to coppermines and > steelmills. > Girls can do anything, no need for women! > > > Interested in visting Croatia? Click on the link below to find out about a wonderful tour of Croatia! http://www.kollander-travel.com/

In a message dated 4/24/2005 3:37:57 AM Eastern Daylight Time, [email protected] writes: << boring >> No problem, just switch to yellow pages and read the list of restaurants. This should tickle you pink and you shall never be bored again. Or go to the movies.

boring..................................

After giving it five more minutes of thought, if I remember correctly, those golf courses discussed were in Nevada, not Arizona. Whatever! Ashley's email was much more relevant to Croatian genealogy than any discussion of golf courses. Sarah ----- Original Message ----- From: Sarah Mueller<mailto:[email protected]> To: [email protected]<mailto:[email protected]> Sent: Sunday, April 24, 2005 2:28 AM Subject: Re: [CROATIA-L] feminist movement and "genealogy" Ahh! and and what do golf courses in Arizona have to do with Croatian genealogy?? But, of course, that's different. The "men folk" like that golf talk! Yes, it is patronizing, and I will never get used to it or accept it. Thank you, Tatjana! Sarah ----- Original Message ----- From: [email protected]<mailto:[email protected]<mailto:[email protected]<mailto:[email protected]>> To: [email protected]<mailto:[email protected]<mailto:[email protected]<mailto:[email protected]>> Sent: Sunday, April 24, 2005 12:33 AM Subject: Re: [CROATIA-L] feminist movement and "genealogy" We are often discussing history: the Croats, Slovenes, their language, the food they eat and cook. And I saw no complaints. But mention the women (except in their families' kitchens) and soon the girls are mentioned- is it just patronizing or? Going through the US census reports I could not but wonder: how did they do it? 8, 10 children, husband going to the coppermines and a boarder or 2 in the apartement. All the while apparently they had no basic legal rights. Are we only interested in their gourmet cooking and the rights of Magyars and the language of Poles? but not the lifes of our gmothers? Right on Ashley! And the rest: please explain what do the recipes have to do with genealogy as you understand it? Tatjana Former (glad to have been able to be accepted to medical school and to spend my own earnings with my own credit cards. And to vote!)

Ahh! and and what do golf courses in Arizona have to do with Croatian genealogy?? But, of course, that's different. The "men folk" like that golf talk! Yes, it is patronizing, and I will never get used to it or accept it. Thank you, Tatjana! Sarah ----- Original Message ----- From: [email protected]<mailto:[email protected]> To: [email protected]<mailto:[email protected]> Sent: Sunday, April 24, 2005 12:33 AM Subject: Re: [CROATIA-L] feminist movement and "genealogy" We are often discussing history: the Croats, Slovenes, their language, the food they eat and cook. And I saw no complaints. But mention the women (except in their families' kitchens) and soon the girls are mentioned- is it just patronizing or? Going through the US census reports I could not but wonder: how did they do it? 8, 10 children, husband going to the coppermines and a boarder or 2 in the apartement. All the while apparently they had no basic legal rights. Are we only interested in their gourmet cooking and the rights of Magyars and the language of Poles? but not the lifes of our gmothers? Right on Ashley! And the rest: please explain what do the recipes have to do with genealogy as you understand it? Tatjana Former (glad to have been able to be accepted to medical school and to spend my own earnings with my own credit cards. And to vote!)

The traditional difference between men and boys is the price of their toys. Kostati svoje igra? Ashley ----- Original Message ----- From: [email protected] To: [email protected] Sent: Sunday, April 24, 2005 12:39 AM Subject: [CROATIA-L] Girls and boys Boys go to wars, dates go to proms, but men go to coppermines and steelmills. Girls can do anything, no need for women!

Boys go to wars, dates go to proms, but men go to coppermines and steelmills. Girls can do anything, no need for women!

We are often discussing history: the Croats, Slovenes, their language, the food they eat and cook. And I saw no complaints. But mention the women (except in their families' kitchens) and soon the girls are mentioned- is it just patronizing or? Going through the US census reports I could not but wonder: how did they do it? 8, 10 children, husband going to the coppermines and a boarder or 2 in the apartement. All the while apparently they had no basic legal rights. Are we only interested in their gourmet cooking and the rights of Magyars and the language of Poles? but not the lifes of our gmothers? Right on Ashley! And the rest: please explain what do the recipes have to do with genealogy as you understand it? Tatjana Former (glad to have been able to be accepted to medical school and to spend my own earnings with my own credit cards. And to vote!)

Back to genealogy please.. Dave

The women's movement in America first got organized around 1848. Sorry you missed it. Women as labor leaders began to organize in the 1870's but it wasn't until hundreds of women died in the Triangle fire, around 1910, that much of the USA paid attention to sweat shop conditions. Wyoming was the first territory of the USA to pass a women's suffrage law. In the following year, 1870, women began serving on juries there. Soon, other states offered limited voting rights to women, usually accessible only if they were white, or held property. Colorado appears as the first state to have a universal voting rights amendment to its constitution, in 1893. By 1918, about 16 states had such laws or amendments. The federal women's suffrage amendment finally passed in Congress in 1919, about 40 years after Susan B. Anthony wrote that radical proposal. It became the 19th amendment to the Constitution of the USA in 1920 after ratification by the majority of the states. Interestingly, President Wilson wasn't the one who signed it ' into law. ' The secretary of State signed it. Kent Law School Union Hall of Honor http://www.kentlaw.edu/ilhs/honor.htm Columbia Encyclopedia http://www.answers.com/topic/feminism ...the first feminist document was Mary Wollstonecraft's Vindication of the Rights of Women (1792). In the French Revolution, women's republican clubs demanded that liberty, equality, and fraternity be applied regardless of sex, but this movement was extinguished for the time by the Code Napoléon. In North America, although Abigail Adams and Mercy Otis Warren pressed for the inclusion of women's emancipation in the Constitution, the feminist movement really dates from 1848, when Elizabeth Cady Stanton, Lucretia Coffin Mott, and others, in a women's convention at Seneca Falls, N.Y., issued a declaration of independence for women, demanding full legal equality, full educational and commercial opportunity, equal compensation, the right to collect wages, and the right to vote. Led by Elizabeth Cady Stanton and Susan Brownell Anthony, the movement spread rapidly and soon extended to Europe.... [Please note that women had no right to the wages they earned outside the home. Husbands or fathers had the legal right to the money they made. Pin money, selling sewing or butter and eggs, was for some women a desperate source of funds for their and their children's clothing, and even food. Wanna guess why?] Mother Jones http://www.kentlaw.edu/ilhs/majones.htm quoting the first paragraph of a short article: The elderly woman smoothed her black dress and touched the lace at her throat and wrists. Her snow-white hair was gathered into a knot at the nape of her neck, and a black hat, trimmed with lavender ribbons to lend a touch of color, shaded her finely wrinkled face. She was about five feet tall, but she exuded energy and enthusiasm. As she waited to speak, her bright blue eyes scanned the people grouped beyond the platform. Her kindly expression never altered as her voice broke over the audience: "I'm not a humanitarian," she exclaimed. "I'm a hell-raiser." Rosa Luxemburg http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rosa_Luxemburg Golda Meier http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Golda_Meir#Emigration_to_the_United_States.2C_1906 ....Her father worked as a carpenter in Milwaukee and her mother ran a grocery store. Beginning when she was only eight years old, Golda oversaw the store for a short time each morning as her mother was buying supplies at the market. When she was 14, her mother suggested that she give up school for work and to marry an older man. Golda rebelled and ran away. She went to Denver, where her older sister, Sheyna, was living. Here she met Morris Myerson, a sign painter, who would later become her husband. She returned to Milwaukee at the urging of her father when she was 18. She began speaking and advocating.... Encyclopedia Britannica women at the crossroads http://search.eb.com/women/crossroads02.html 1880: Paiute Indian leader Sarah Winnemucca protests conditions on Indian reservations. 1880: Women in Mississippi, New York, and Vermont win partial suffrage. 1881: The Women's National Indian Association (originally known as the Central Indian Committee) is founded by Mary Lucinda Bonney and Amelia Stone Quinton. 1881: Clara Barton establishes the American branch of the Red Cross and becomes its first president. 1881: Sophia Packard and Harriet Giles open a school for black women in an Atlanta, Georgia, church basement. Their school will become known as Spelman College. etc. 1893: Johns Hopkins Medical School opens. The women who donate the funding, including Mary Elizabeth Garrett and Martha Carey Thomas, insist that men and women be admitted equally. [ However, all faculty and staff remained white until after WW2 ] etc. biographies at EB include: Florence Rena Sabin (1871-1953), anatomist Florence Sabin was born on November 9, 1871, in Central City, Colorado. She was educated in Denver, Colorado, and Vermont and graduated from Smith College, Northampton, Massachusetts, in 1893. After teaching in Denver and at Smith to earn tuition money, she entered the Johns Hopkins University Medical School, Baltimore, Maryland, in 1896. While a student she demonstrated a particular gift for laboratory work; her model of the brain stem of a newborn infant was widely reproduced for use as a teaching model in medical schools. After graduation in 1900 she interned in Johns Hopkins Hospital for a year and then returned to the medical school to conduct research under a fellowship awarded by the Baltimore Association for the Advancement of University Education of Women. In 1901 she published An Atlas of the Medulla and Midbrain, which became a popular medical text. In 1902, when Johns Hopkins finally abandoned its policy of not appointing women to its medical faculty, Sabin was named an assistant in anatomy, and she became the first female full professor at Johns Hopkins in 1917.... History looks different when the contributions of women are included. -National Women's History Project some books: Sara Evans, Born for Liberty: A History of Women in America, 2nd ed. (1997) This is a major text and is on a number of textbook and encyclopedia reading list references. Notice that it's been popular enough to be in its second edition. Karen Anderson, Changing Woman: A History of Racial Ethnic Women in Modern America (1996). Paula Giddings, When and Where I Enter: The Impact of Black Women on Race and Sex in America (1984)

I must have missed a message or two...what does this have to do with CROATIA? Karen Heiser Weed, Siskiyou, CA ----- Original Message ----- From: "ashley tiwara" <[email protected]> To: <[email protected]> Sent: Saturday, April 23, 2005 6:17 PM Subject: [CROATIA-L] feminist movement > The women's movement in America first got organized around 1848. Sorry you > missed it. Women as labor leaders began to organize in the 1870's but it > wasn't until hundreds of women died in the Triangle fire, around 1910, that > much of the USA paid attention to sweat shop conditions. > Wyoming was the first territory of the USA to pass a women's suffrage > law. In the following year, 1870, women began serving on juries there. > Soon, other states offered limited voting rights to women, usually > accessible only if they were white, or held property. Colorado appears as > the first state to have a universal voting rights amendment to its > constitution, in 1893. By 1918, about 16 states had such laws or > amendments. The federal women's suffrage amendment finally passed in > Congress in 1919, about 40 years after Susan B. Anthony wrote that radical > proposal. It became the 19th amendment to the Constitution of the USA in > 1920 after ratification by the majority of the states. Interestingly, > President Wilson wasn't the one who signed it ' into law. ' The secretary > of State signed it. > > > > Kent Law School Union Hall of Honor > http://www.kentlaw.edu/ilhs/honor.htm > > Columbia Encyclopedia > http://www.answers.com/topic/feminism > ...the first feminist document was Mary Wollstonecraft's Vindication of the > Rights of Women (1792). In the French Revolution, women's republican clubs > demanded that liberty, equality, and fraternity be applied regardless of > sex, but this movement was extinguished for the time by the Code Napoléon. > In North America, although Abigail Adams and Mercy Otis Warren pressed > for the inclusion of women's emancipation in the Constitution, the feminist > movement really dates from 1848, when Elizabeth Cady Stanton, Lucretia > Coffin Mott, and others, in a women's convention at Seneca Falls, N.Y., > issued a declaration of independence for women, demanding full legal > equality, full educational and commercial opportunity, equal compensation, > the right to collect wages, and the right to vote. Led by Elizabeth Cady > Stanton and Susan Brownell Anthony, the movement spread rapidly and soon > extended to Europe.... > [Please note that women had no right to the wages they earned outside the > home. Husbands or fathers had the legal right to the money they made. Pin > money, selling sewing or butter and eggs, was for some women a desperate > source of funds for their and their children's clothing, and even food. > Wanna guess why?] > > Mother Jones http://www.kentlaw.edu/ilhs/majones.htm > quoting the first paragraph of a short article: > The elderly woman smoothed her black dress and touched the lace at her > throat and wrists. Her snow-white hair was gathered into a knot at the nape > of her neck, and a black hat, trimmed with lavender ribbons to lend a touch > of color, shaded her finely wrinkled face. She was about five feet tall, but > she exuded energy and enthusiasm. As she waited to speak, her bright blue > eyes scanned the people grouped beyond the platform. Her kindly expression > never altered as her voice broke over the audience: "I'm not a > humanitarian," she exclaimed. "I'm a hell-raiser." > > Rosa Luxemburg http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rosa_Luxemburg > > > Golda Meier > http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Golda_Meir#Emigration_to_the_United_States.2C_1906 > > ....Her father worked as a carpenter in Milwaukee and her mother ran a > grocery store. Beginning when she was only eight years old, Golda oversaw > the store for a short time each morning as her mother was buying supplies at > the market. > When she was 14, her mother suggested that she give up school for work > and to marry an older man. Golda rebelled and ran away. She went to Denver, > where her older sister, Sheyna, was living. Here she met Morris Myerson, a > sign painter, who would later become her husband. > She returned to Milwaukee at the urging of her father when she was 18. > She began speaking and advocating.... > > Encyclopedia Britannica women at the crossroads > http://search.eb.com/women/crossroads02.html > > 1880: > Paiute Indian leader Sarah Winnemucca protests conditions on Indian > reservations. > 1880: > Women in Mississippi, New York, and Vermont win partial suffrage. 1881: > The Women's National Indian Association (originally known as the Central > Indian Committee) is founded by Mary Lucinda Bonney and Amelia Stone > Quinton. > 1881: > Clara Barton establishes the American branch of the Red Cross and becomes > its first president. > 1881: > Sophia Packard and Harriet Giles open a school for black women in an > Atlanta, Georgia, church basement. Their school will become known as Spelman > College. etc. > 1893: > Johns Hopkins Medical School opens. The women who donate the funding, > including Mary Elizabeth Garrett and Martha Carey Thomas, insist that men > and women be admitted equally. [ However, all faculty and staff remained > white until after WW2 ] etc. > > biographies at EB include: > > Florence Rena Sabin > (1871-1953), anatomist > Florence Sabin was born on November 9, 1871, in Central City, Colorado. She > was educated in Denver, Colorado, and Vermont and graduated from Smith > College, Northampton, Massachusetts, in 1893. > After teaching in Denver and at Smith to earn tuition money, she > entered the Johns Hopkins University Medical School, Baltimore, Maryland, in > 1896. While a student she demonstrated a particular gift for laboratory > work; her model of the brain stem of a newborn infant was widely reproduced > for use as a teaching model in medical schools. > After graduation in 1900 she interned in Johns Hopkins Hospital for a > year and then returned to the medical school to conduct research under a > fellowship awarded by the Baltimore Association for the Advancement of > University Education of Women. In 1901 she published An Atlas of the Medulla > and Midbrain, which became a popular medical text. In 1902, when Johns > Hopkins finally abandoned its policy of not appointing women to its medical > faculty, Sabin was named an assistant in anatomy, and she became the first > female full professor at Johns Hopkins in 1917.... > > > > History looks different when the contributions of women are included. > -National Women's History Project > > some books: > Sara Evans, Born for Liberty: A History of Women in America, 2nd ed. (1997) > This is a major text and is on a number of textbook and encyclopedia reading > list references. Notice that it's been popular enough to be in its second > edition. > > Karen Anderson, Changing Woman: A History of Racial Ethnic Women in Modern > America (1996). > > Paula Giddings, When and Where I Enter: The Impact of Black Women on Race > and Sex in America (1984) > >

Which DNA test is the group thinking of? I belong to Queen-L and they are testing male members (YDNA) with Family Tree DNA: http://www.familytreedna.com/surname_join.asp?code=X96855&special=True