Re: [CROATIA-L] Habsburg Baptism in Zagreb The Imperial and Royal Family of Austria-Hungary House Habsburg-Lothringen http://www.geocities.com/henrivanoene/royalaustria.html Wedding Archduchess Francesca and Archduke Karl of Habsburg http://www.royal-magazin.de/austria/habsburg-schmuck.htm Some ancestry of Baroness Francesca Thyssen-Bornemisza http://members.aol.com/eurostamm/thyssen.html Frank K

On 6.21.1998 in Zagreb Cathedral was baptized son of Karl Habsburg, a scion of the family- kings of Croatia for almost 400 years (Jan 1, 1527- 1918). The boy was born in Salzburg Austria on 9.20.1997. At baptism ( by Archbishop Cardinal Kuharic) he was given 10 names! Ferdinand Zvonimir Maria Balthus Keith Michael Otto Antal Bahnam Leonhard The pictures: http://www.twschwarzer.de/ferdinan.htm

Donna- You make a very good point.. the discussion going on was about the traditions of naming a child, usually at baptism. Dave On Sat, 14 May 2005 19:03:00 EDT [email protected] writes: > I totally agree that the post that the priests teaches false > doctrine is > really off topic and this is not the place to criticize the Catholic > religion. > we are here to learn about our ancestors and the way things were > done in the > mother country not someone's grudge against the church > > Donna > > >

I totally agree that the post that the priests teaches false doctrine is really off topic and this is not the place to criticize the Catholic religion. we are here to learn about our ancestors and the way things were done in the mother country not someone's grudge against the church Donna

I want to make one quick comment on this, and not anything more. If you were a Catholic hopefully you have access to a Catechism of the church, and it will explain why Catholics believe as they do. Baptism is initiated at birth, but is not completed until Confirmation usually at the age of about 13-14 years old, when the bishop or his designee annoints the Catechumenate with oil(this comes from old traditions of the original churches) and then calls upon the gifts of the Holy Spirit, all this done in the name of the Father, Son and Holy Spirit. I say this so that people will have a little better understanding of the Catholic Faith - whether it be Roman, Lutheran, Orthodox, Episcople, etc. These churches which were founded by Christ when he said to Peter "thou art a rock, and upon this rock I will build my church." To prevent this from becoming controversial llike some other issues lately, feel free to write me at my email address privately. Dave Mothkovich [email protected] On Sat, 14 May 2005 12:12:13 EDT [email protected] writes: > Read Ezekiel 18:20 "The soul that sinneth, it shall die. The son > shall not > bear the iniquity of the father, neither shall the father bear the > iniquity > of the son; the righteousness of the righteous shall be upon him > and the > wickedness of the wicked shall be upon him. > > Mark 16:15-16 "And he said unto them, Go ye into all the world, > and preach > the gospel to every creature. He that believeth and is baptized > shall be > saved; but he that believeth not shall be damned." > > You must believe before baptism. How can the infant believe? They > are > innocent babies. > > You must hear Hear the Gospel - Matt. 7:24-27 > Believe in Christ - John 8:24 > Repent of our sin - Luke 13:3 > Confess Christ's name - Matt. 10:32-33 > Be baptized into Christ - John 3:5 > Live Faithfully - Rev 2:10 > > What is Baptism? > > Buried in baptism - Romans 6:4 > Buried/raised up - Col. 2:12 > a birth - john 3:3-5 > Went down into the water - Acts 8:38-39 > NOT sprinkling a little water - Romans 6:4 > NOT pouring - Acts 8:36-39 > Requires much water - John 3:23 > > Proverbs 14:12 - "There is a way which seemeth right unto a man, > but the end > thereof are the ways of death. > > Ignorance of God's will - Hosea 4:6 > Following traditions of men - Matt. 15:1-9 > Corruption of God's plan - II Tim. 4:1-4 > Man's desire to follow men - Gal. 1:6-10 > Disrespect for God's word - II Tim. 4:3-4 > > Please read the bible. > I used to be Catholic but not anymore. The priests teach false > doctrine. > > Take care, > Dawn > > >

Hi Robert where is the closest lodge to Rockford/Loves Park Illinois? dave On Sat, 14 May 2005 08:06:08 -0700 (PDT) Robert Jerin <[email protected]> writes: > Lori, > > In order to recieve the Zajednicar you need to join a local Croatian > Fraternal Union Lodge. Let me know where you are located as I have > contact info for all the Lodges in the US, Canada and Croatia. > > Robert Jerin > > Lori <[email protected]> wrote: > > Hi folks, > > Does anyone know if the Croatian Newspaper, Zajednicar, has a > website? > > I wrote a letter to the Pittsburg address a few weeks ago, asking > about subscriptions, but have not heard back. > > Just wondering if there was a way to access that information online. > My search attempts online have not led me to what I'm looking for. > > Thank you! > > Lori > > > > Interested in visting Croatia? Click on the link below to find out > about a wonderful tour of Croatia! > > http://www.kollander-travel.com/ > > >

Since Patricia's phone is listed at Switchboard I feel it is OK to post it here... (262) 363-9765 Robert Jerin <[email protected]> wrote: Dave There are many in Chicago proper and cose-in suburbs. The other Lodges are down state such as Canton and E. St Louis area. The closest Lodge to you may be at "Lodge 993, John A. Movrich", Mukwonago, WI, which meets the 2nd Friday of the month at 7:00 PM, Gedde Home, 310 Shore Dr, Mukwonago, WI President is Cindy Movrich Boeck, 1025 Eastern Trail, Apt 101, Mukwonago, WI 52149 Robert dave mothkovich wrote: Hi Robert where is the closest lodge to Rockford/Loves Park Illinois? dave On Sat, 14 May 2005 08:06:08 -0700 (PDT) Robert Jerin writes: > Lori, > > In order to recieve the Zajednicar you need to join a local Croatian > Fraternal Union Lodge. Let me know where you are located as I have > contact info for all the Lodges in the US, Canada and Croatia. > > Robert Jerin > > Lori wrote: > > Hi folks, > > Does anyone know if the Croatian Newspaper, Zajednicar, has a > website? > > I wrote a letter to the Pittsburg address a few weeks ago, asking > about subscriptions, but have not heard back. > > Just wondering if there was a way to access that information online. > My search attempts online have not led me to what I'm looking for. > > Thank you! > > Lori > > > > Interested in visting Croatia? Click on the link below to find out > about a wonderful tour of Croatia! > > http://www.kollander-travel.com/ > > > Interested in visting Croatia? Click on the link below to find out about a wonderful tour of Croatia! http://www.kollander-travel.com/ Interested in visting Croatia? Click on the link below to find out about a wonderful tour of Croatia! http://www.kollander-travel.com/

Bill, The closest would be Lodge 641 "Hrvatski Zivot", which meets the 2nd Sunday of the month at various member's homes. Pres is Ante Pitesa, 1543 Mallorca Dr., Vista CA 92083 (760) 598-6838 displayMag('100081635','-1','1','0') Robert William Kuchan <[email protected]> wrote: Hi Robert, Where is the nearest lodge to La Jolla, CA? La Jolla is just north of San Diego city. Thanks. Bill Kuchan dave mothkovich wrote: Hi Robert where is the closest lodge to Rockford/Loves Park Illinois? dave On Sat, 14 May 2005 08:06:08 -0700 (PDT) Robert Jerin writes: > Lori, > > In order to recieve the Zajednicar you need to join a local Croatian > Fraternal Union Lodge. Let me know where you are located as I have > contact info for all the Lodges in the US, Canada and Croatia. > > Robert Jerin > > Lori wrote: > > Hi folks, > > Does anyone know if the Croatian Newspaper, Zajednicar, has a > website? > > I wrote a letter to the Pittsburg address a few weeks ago, asking > about subscriptions, but have not heard back. > > Just wondering if there was a way to access that information online. > My search attempts online have not led me to what I'm looking for. > > Thank you! > > Lori > > > > Interested in visting Croatia? Click on the link below to find out > about a wonderful tour of Croatia! > > http://www.kollander-travel.com/ > > > Interested in visting Croatia? Click on the link below to find out about a wonderful tour of Croatia! http://www.kollander-travel.com/

Lori, The Lodge in Denver does not appear to be very active, as I had a genealogy seminar in Denver and tried to contact the Lodge officers... to no avail! I had over 50 at that seminar some from as far away as New Mexico and Pueblo CO but not one person from the CFU Lodge in Denver! But here is the info: Lodge 12 St Jacob's meets the 4th Sunday of the month at 1:00 PM, at 11768 W. 32nd Pl., Pres is Patricia Pepper, 128 40 W 55th Pl, Arvada, CO 80002 In addition my friend John Budd (BUDISELIC) has formed a group which has several activities a year, inc helping promote the Dusquense Tammies when they are in town, several other events inc picnics etc. He has told me it is OK to call him direct at 303.520.5256 Robert Lori <[email protected]> wrote: Robert, Thank you so much. I'm in Colorado, in the Denver metro area. Lori -- Robert Jerin wrote: Lori, In order to recieve the Zajednicar you need to join a local Croatian Fraternal Union Lodge. Let me know where you are located as I have contact info for all the Lodges in the US, Canada and Croatia. Robert Jerin Lori wrote: Hi folks, Does anyone know if the Croatian Newspaper, Zajednicar, has a website? I wrote a letter to the Pittsburg address a few weeks ago, asking about subscriptions, but have not heard back. Just wondering if there was a way to access that information online. My search attempts online have not led me to what I'm looking for. Thank you! Lori Interested in visting Croatia? Click on the link below to find out about a wonderful tour of Croatia! http://www.kollander-travel.com/ Interested in visting Croatia? Click on the link below to find out about a wonderful tour of Croatia! http://www.kollander-travel.com/

Dave There are many in Chicago proper and cose-in suburbs. The other Lodges are down state such as Canton and E. St Louis area. The closest Lodge to you may be at "Lodge 993, John A. Movrich", Mukwonago, WI, which meets the 2nd Friday of the month at 7:00 PM, Gedde Home, 310 Shore Dr, Mukwonago, WI President is Cindy Movrich Boeck, 1025 Eastern Trail, Apt 101, Mukwonago, WI 52149 Robert dave mothkovich <[email protected]> wrote: Hi Robert where is the closest lodge to Rockford/Loves Park Illinois? dave On Sat, 14 May 2005 08:06:08 -0700 (PDT) Robert Jerin writes: > Lori, > > In order to recieve the Zajednicar you need to join a local Croatian > Fraternal Union Lodge. Let me know where you are located as I have > contact info for all the Lodges in the US, Canada and Croatia. > > Robert Jerin > > Lori wrote: > > Hi folks, > > Does anyone know if the Croatian Newspaper, Zajednicar, has a > website? > > I wrote a letter to the Pittsburg address a few weeks ago, asking > about subscriptions, but have not heard back. > > Just wondering if there was a way to access that information online. > My search attempts online have not led me to what I'm looking for. > > Thank you! > > Lori > > > > Interested in visting Croatia? Click on the link below to find out > about a wonderful tour of Croatia! > > http://www.kollander-travel.com/ > > > Interested in visting Croatia? Click on the link below to find out about a wonderful tour of Croatia! http://www.kollander-travel.com/

Hi Robert, Where is the nearest lodge to La Jolla, CA? La Jolla is just north of San Diego city. Thanks. Bill Kuchan dave mothkovich <[email protected]> wrote: Hi Robert where is the closest lodge to Rockford/Loves Park Illinois? dave On Sat, 14 May 2005 08:06:08 -0700 (PDT) Robert Jerin writes: > Lori, > > In order to recieve the Zajednicar you need to join a local Croatian > Fraternal Union Lodge. Let me know where you are located as I have > contact info for all the Lodges in the US, Canada and Croatia. > > Robert Jerin > > Lori wrote: > > Hi folks, > > Does anyone know if the Croatian Newspaper, Zajednicar, has a > website? > > I wrote a letter to the Pittsburg address a few weeks ago, asking > about subscriptions, but have not heard back. > > Just wondering if there was a way to access that information online. > My search attempts online have not led me to what I'm looking for. > > Thank you! > > Lori > > > > Interested in visting Croatia? Click on the link below to find out > about a wonderful tour of Croatia! > > http://www.kollander-travel.com/ > > >

Robert, Thank you so much. I'm in Colorado, in the Denver metro area. Lori -- Robert Jerin <[email protected]> wrote: Lori, In order to recieve the Zajednicar you need to join a local Croatian Fraternal Union Lodge. Let me know where you are located as I have contact info for all the Lodges in the US, Canada and Croatia. Robert Jerin Lori <[email protected]> wrote: Hi folks, Does anyone know if the Croatian Newspaper, Zajednicar, has a website? I wrote a letter to the Pittsburg address a few weeks ago, asking about subscriptions, but have not heard back. Just wondering if there was a way to access that information online. My search attempts online have not led me to what I'm looking for. Thank you! Lori Interested in visting Croatia? Click on the link below to find out about a wonderful tour of Croatia! http://www.kollander-travel.com/

Hi folks, Does anyone know if the Croatian Newspaper, Zajednicar, has a website? I wrote a letter to the Pittsburg address a few weeks ago, asking about subscriptions, but have not heard back. Just wondering if there was a way to access that information online. My search attempts online have not led me to what I'm looking for. Thank you! Lori

Totally inappropriate for this forum! ----- Original Message ----- From: <[email protected]> To: <[email protected]> Sent: Saturday, May 14, 2005 12:12 PM Subject: Re: [CROATIA-L] Baptism > Read Ezekiel 18:20 "The soul that sinneth, it shall die. The son shall not > bear the iniquity of the father, neither shall the father bear the iniquity > of the son; the righteousness of the righteous shall be upon him and the > wickedness of the wicked shall be upon him. > > Mark 16:15-16 "And he said unto them, Go ye into all the world, and preach > the gospel to every creature. He that believeth and is baptized shall be > saved; but he that believeth not shall be damned." > > You must believe before baptism. How can the infant believe? They are > innocent babies. > > You must hear Hear the Gospel - Matt. 7:24-27 > Believe in Christ - John 8:24 > Repent of our sin - Luke 13:3 > Confess Christ's name - Matt. 10:32-33 > Be baptized into Christ - John 3:5 > Live Faithfully - Rev 2:10 > > What is Baptism? > > Buried in baptism - Romans 6:4 > Buried/raised up - Col. 2:12 > a birth - john 3:3-5 > Went down into the water - Acts 8:38-39 > NOT sprinkling a little water - Romans 6:4 > NOT pouring - Acts 8:36-39 > Requires much water - John 3:23 > > Proverbs 14:12 - "There is a way which seemeth right unto a man, but the end > thereof are the ways of death. > > Ignorance of God's will - Hosea 4:6 > Following traditions of men - Matt. 15:1-9 > Corruption of God's plan - II Tim. 4:1-4 > Man's desire to follow men - Gal. 1:6-10 > Disrespect for God's word - II Tim. 4:3-4 > > Please read the bible. > I used to be Catholic but not anymore. The priests teach false doctrine. > > Take care, > Dawn > > > > > __________________________________________________________ > Message transport security by GatewayDefender.com > 12:14:01 PM ET - 5/14/2005 > > > __________ NOD32 1.1095 (20050513) Information __________ > > This message was checked by NOD32 antivirus system. > http://www.nod32.com > >

Read Ezekiel 18:20 "The soul that sinneth, it shall die. The son shall not bear the iniquity of the father, neither shall the father bear the iniquity of the son; the righteousness of the righteous shall be upon him and the wickedness of the wicked shall be upon him. Mark 16:15-16 "And he said unto them, Go ye into all the world, and preach the gospel to every creature. He that believeth and is baptized shall be saved; but he that believeth not shall be damned." You must believe before baptism. How can the infant believe? They are innocent babies. You must hear Hear the Gospel - Matt. 7:24-27 Believe in Christ - John 8:24 Repent of our sin - Luke 13:3 Confess Christ's name - Matt. 10:32-33 Be baptized into Christ - John 3:5 Live Faithfully - Rev 2:10 What is Baptism? Buried in baptism - Romans 6:4 Buried/raised up - Col. 2:12 a birth - john 3:3-5 Went down into the water - Acts 8:38-39 NOT sprinkling a little water - Romans 6:4 NOT pouring - Acts 8:36-39 Requires much water - John 3:23 Proverbs 14:12 - "There is a way which seemeth right unto a man, but the end thereof are the ways of death. Ignorance of God's will - Hosea 4:6 Following traditions of men - Matt. 15:1-9 Corruption of God's plan - II Tim. 4:1-4 Man's desire to follow men - Gal. 1:6-10 Disrespect for God's word - II Tim. 4:3-4 Please read the bible. I used to be Catholic but not anymore. The priests teach false doctrine. Take care, Dawn

Lori, In order to recieve the Zajednicar you need to join a local Croatian Fraternal Union Lodge. Let me know where you are located as I have contact info for all the Lodges in the US, Canada and Croatia. Robert Jerin Lori <[email protected]> wrote: Hi folks, Does anyone know if the Croatian Newspaper, Zajednicar, has a website? I wrote a letter to the Pittsburg address a few weeks ago, asking about subscriptions, but have not heard back. Just wondering if there was a way to access that information online. My search attempts online have not led me to what I'm looking for. Thank you! Lori Interested in visting Croatia? Click on the link below to find out about a wonderful tour of Croatia! http://www.kollander-travel.com/

They did the same to my dad, his name is Ralph Joseph, but they baptized him Joseph Ralph. Patty -----Original Message----- From: Louise [mailto:[email protected]] Sent: Wednesday, May 11, 2005 11:46 AM To: [email protected] Subject: [CROATIA-L] Re: CROATIA-D Digest V05 #149 When I had my daughter baptized in Jan. 1962 in a parish in the Chicago area I told the priest that her name was to be Karen Marie. He said that he had to use the Christian name Catherine Mary and that no name could come before Mary; therefore, she was baptized as Mary Catherine. Louise On 5/11/05 3:00 AM, "[email protected]" <[email protected]> wrote: > To: [email protected] > Subject: Re: [CROATIA-L] [Croatia} Baptism > > The Christian name thing didn't end until after Vatican II for the > Catholic's. I wanted "Cathy" but had to choose Catherine for the baptism of > our daughter. Now, it seems like anything goes when I hear the names that > the poor babies are being given by their parents. > Margaret > ----- Original Message ----- > From: " Karen Heiser" <[email protected]> > To: <[email protected]> > Sent: Tuesday, May 10, 2005 3:56 PM ________________________________________________________________________ This email has been scanned for all viruses by the MessageLabs SkyScan service. For more information on a proactive anti-virus service working around the clock, around the globe, visit www.messagelabs.com. ________________________________________________________________________ ________________________________________________________________________ This email has been scanned for all viruses by the MessageLabs SkyScan service. For more information on a proactive anti-virus service working around the clock, around the globe, visit www.messagelabs.com. ________________________________________________________________________

My dad was Slovenian and born March 18 and named Joseph. We thought it was because of St. Joseph's day on the 19th. We later discovered that his grandfather was Joseph and he had an uncle Joseph. The first son, my Uncle Mike was named after my grandfather. My "Aunt Dolly" was born in October and baptized Sofia Josephine. I need to look at the calendar and see if one of the St. Joseph's or a St. Sophie is around that time. I think that after bearing 11 kids, they were running out of names. Margaret ----- Original Message ----- From: "William F Kane" <[email protected]> To: <[email protected]> Sent: Wednesday, May 11, 2005 10:10 AM Subject: Re: [CROATIA-L] [Croatia} Baptism > Valent was a very common name in Croatia but when Sylvia's grandfather > came to the US it was changed to Valentine. > the priests in French Canada would very often name the child themselves > saying the name picked was not appropriate. Some of them even insisted > that all girls have a Mary (Marie) in front of their name. My grandmother > was Marie Louise. We have a friend who has 8 sisters and they are all > named Mary something which she said caused all sorts of confusion when > someone yelled Mary. > The custom on our Croatian side was for the first male child to be named > after the grandfather. In researching the ancestors we found every other > generation had a George (or the Croatian or Latin equivalent) Jambrek. On > the Shantek side it was Mio (Mike). Looking at old record in Slavonia we > find a lot of people named after saints in the month they were born. Even > some Balthazars in Dec. and Nicolas was popular around Dec 8. Babara was > another very popular name around that saints day. > Bill Kane > > > > -- > No virus found in this incoming message. > Checked by AVG Anti-Virus. > Version: 7.0.308 / Virus Database: 266.11.8 - Release Date: 5/10/2005 > >

Louise, My Cathy was born in 1963 and baptized at two weeks of age and, like I said before, she couldn't be baptized Cathy so I decided on Catherine. Then, my mother in law was upset as my mom's name was Katherine. My MIL said I name Cathy after my mom. I didn't feel that I did. I wanted a Cathy and my mom was called Katherine or Kate. So, sometimes it isn't the custom but the in-law's that stick their nose in. I remember a good friends who had an Italian father in law and his name was Fani. Her husband wanted her to name their son that and she said no and named him Steven and they got over it. Margaret ----- Original Message ----- From: "Louise" <[email protected]> To: <[email protected]> Sent: Wednesday, May 11, 2005 9:46 AM Subject: [CROATIA-L] Re: CROATIA-D Digest V05 #149 > When I had my daughter baptized in Jan. 1962 in a parish in the Chicago > area > I told the priest that her name was to be Karen Marie. He said that he had > to use the Christian name Catherine Mary and that no name could come > before > Mary; therefore, she was baptized as Mary Catherine. > Louise > > > > On 5/11/05 3:00 AM, "[email protected]" > <[email protected]> wrote: > >> To: [email protected] >> Subject: Re: [CROATIA-L] [Croatia} Baptism >> >> The Christian name thing didn't end until after Vatican II for the >> Catholic's. I wanted "Cathy" but had to choose Catherine for the baptism >> of >> our daughter. Now, it seems like anything goes when I hear the names >> that >> the poor babies are being given by their parents. >> Margaret >> ----- Original Message ----- >> From: " Karen Heiser" <[email protected]> >> To: <[email protected]> >> Sent: Tuesday, May 10, 2005 3:56 PM > > > > -- > No virus found in this incoming message. > Checked by AVG Anti-Virus. > Version: 7.0.308 / Virus Database: 266.11.8 - Release Date: 5/10/2005 > >

Hello Patty, I think your friend Brandi was named after Irish St Brendan, feast day May 16. more about this Irishman Saint: http://www.newadvent.org/cathen/02758c.htm Tatjana (it took me a long time to find her in the Catholic calendar and join my brother and sister having a "name's day" which they always had- talking about deprived childhood!) By the way until not so long ago the custom in Croatia was that you had the "official" name, most often of a saint who was then expected to help and protect you. But your friends and family could call you in any shortened form of your name- at times actually lenghtened. The confirmation name was not used but I guess it could have been. It had a special meaning for the fact that now you were old enough to chose it yourself. My brother chose a name of a long ago ancestor. Boys, proud to carry family names! Girls expecting to lose their family name and live happily ever after! To add: from the list I got a new name. Ashley calls me Tat. Getting an additional name- how enriching! And about mothers not in church. In 1944 in Zagreb the custom was still adhered to, though nobody knew the reason. I have yet to find out how is it handled nowadays.