Gray, Don't fret. Dan mentioned that a James CREWS was murdered in 1791 and we've been trying to figure out who he was. Naturally I grilled Dan until he gave in and sent a copy of the records! No, he graciously sent me a copy with only a little push. Since he did and you're interested, I'll put a copy of it here to save him the trouble. I read every word and I think MAYBE justice was not served in the case of "WILL". AND I thought Dans' comments were so interesting that I would leave them in, also. I hope that's alright with you, Dan? ................................. Pat I've gone ahead and attached to this note a copy of the court case involving the slaves who shot and killed James Crews in Charles City County, VA in 1792. It's not really all that long (and it's actually quite interesting), but I didn't want to send it out to people who may not have any interest in this line. In regards to your questions on Charles Carter, here's what I know: Charles Carter (owner of Shirley Plantation; born 1732; died 1806) was the son of John Carter and grandson of Robert "King" Carter (of "Corotoman" on the Rappahannock river). King Carter was one of the wealthiest and most powerful land-owner in Colonial times. From what I can tell, this Carter family has no ties to the family of Giles Carter (I've heard there were as many as five major Carter lines in Virginia at that time). Charles' father John actually inherited Shirley Plantation though the family of his wife, Elizabeth Hill, daughter of Edward Hill III. Charles also had an uncle by the name of Charles who resided at "Cleve", which is near "Corotoman" (this Charles was often referred to as "Col. Charles Carter", the same name which is referenced in the James Crews document; however he died in 1764, or 28 years before the shooting). Charles Carter (of Shirley) also had a cousin named Charles, son of Charles (of Cleve). The families were apparently close, since Charles (of Shirley) married his cousin Mary, sister of this cousin Charles, and daughter of his uncle Charles (of Cleve). By the way, Charles (of Shirley) had two wives (he married, 2nd, Anne Butler Moore), and fathered 23 children (and yes, two of them were named Charles). As mentioned in my previous note, one of these children was Anne Hill Carter, the wife of Henry "Light-Horse Harry" Lee and mother of General Robert E. Lee. I don't have any additional information on Giles Carter line, so I'll need to research some more to see if there were any "Col. Charles Carters" in this group. The second name you provided could very well be the correct "Charles". It seems to me that there had to be a finite number of "Charles Carters" who owned plantations in Charles City County in 1792. Of course, even if I find the right Charles, I probably still won't be able to place the James Crews who was shot on his land (my best guess is still that he may have been the grandson of Joseph Crews and Massie Johnston through their son John, who stayed in the Charles City area when most of his brothers moved to NC - if you have any info on this line, I would love to hear it). Nonetheless, even if I don't figure it out, researching this story has been a lot of fun! My wife and kids may even get "hauled out" on a "field trip" to Shirley Plantation soon! Thanks for your help! Dan ===================================== CALENDAR OF STATE PAPERS, Page 159, November 26th, 1792 Charles City, sc.: This day Dougald Ferguson came before me, William Royall, a magistrate of the said County, and made oath on the holy evangelist of Almighty God, that a negro by the name of Billy, belonging to the estate of Capt. John Archer, who had eloped for about two months, delivered himself, and brought in with him a negro man by the name of Jack, who says that he belongs to a Mr. Jardin, of North Carolina, & which negro Jack confessed before him that he had shot & killed a Mr. Crews, who acted as overseer for Col. Carter, on Sunday, the Eleventh of November Instant, and that the said Billy he was with him at the time that circumstance happened, and said that he feared if he did not contrive to deliver Jack into the hands of somebody he might suffer for him; and having concerted some scheme with some of the negroes of the Estate, he effected his wish & brought him to him with their assistance on Monday night, the 12th of this Instant, November. Immediately on which, he wrote to Mr. David M. Randolph, who, & a Mr. Rob't Burton & his son soon after, came; to whom he delivered the said negroes Jack & Billy. Given under my hand, this 26th day of November, 1792. WILLIAM ROYALL. CALENDAR OF STATE PAPERS, Page 188-190, December 14th, 1792 Charles City County, sc.: November the 14th--this day was brought before me, William Royall, a magistrate for the said County, Will, a negro man, slave, the property of Elizabeth Archer, who together with Jack, Bundy, & Dick, three other slaves, who being charged with the murder of James Crew, a Laborer, and the said Will being examined according to law; did acknowledge that he was on Sunday, the Eleventh of this instant, between the hours of seven and nine o'clock in the morning on the Plantation of Charles Carter, Esq., present when the said Crew advanced to the spot where the said negroes were; Jack presented, fired, and killed the said Crew, and that after the death of the said Crew, the said Will did approach the body of the said Crew & took from it the Hat & Gun. WILLIAM ROYALL. A copy--Teste: OTWAY BYRD. Charles City County, to-wit: Charles Copeland, deputy attorney for the Commonwealth in this county, comes and gives the court to understand and be informed that Will, a negro man, slave, the property of Elizabeth Archer, not having the fear of God before his eyes, but being moved & seduced by the instigation of the Devil, on Sunday, the Eleventh day of November, in the year 1792, in the morning of' the same, at the Parish of Westover and county aforesaid, was present aiding and abetting Jack, a negro man, slave, (by his information, the property of John Jordan of North Carolina), with force and arms, in and upon one James Crew, labourer, in the peace of God and the Commonwealth of Virginia, when the said Jack so aided and abetted by the said Will, feloniously, willfully, and of his malice aforethought, did then and there discharge upon and against him, the said James Crew, a certain hand gun of the value of 20s , then and there being charged with Gun powder and one slug and some small shot, which said Gun the said Jack (so aided and abetted by the said Will) then and there held in his hands, by reason of the discharge of which said Gun that, was so discharged as aforesaid, said Jack, the said Will being also present aiding and abetting, at the Parish and county aforesaid, feloniously, willfully, and of their malice aforethought, did strike, pierce, and wound the said James Crew, upon the left hip of him the said James Crew, with the said slug and small shot discharged from the said Gun by the said Jack, (aided and abetted by the said Will) so as before related, and did feloniously of their malice aforethought, at the Parish & county aforesaid, give to the said James Crew one mortal wound with the said leaden slug and small shot discharged from the said Gun by the said Jack, (aided and abetted by the said Will) as is before related, upon the left hip of him, the said James Crow, of the length of one inch and depth of four inches, of which said mortal wound the said James Crew in a few minutes died, and that the said Will was present aiding and abetting the said Jack when the said Jack did feloniously and of their malice aforethought, kill and murder the said James Crew in the manner and form aforesaid against the peace and dignity of the said Commonwealth of Virginia. A Copy--Teste: OTWAY BYRD. To his Excellency Henry Lee, Esq'r, Governor of the Commonwealth of Virginia: We, the subscribers, Justices of the Peace in the County of Charles City, who set on the trial of Will, a negro man, slave, the property of' Mrs. Archer, as in the record hereunto annexed is stated, do beg leave to entreat your Excellency in behalf of the above slave, and observe that since the condemnation of the said Will, we have been informed that he, aided by two other slaves did apprehend and deliver to Justice Jack, a negro man, who actually murdered James Crew, as appears by his confession in the record above mentioned. We conceive from the circumstances since communicated to us, that Will made the confession of his being present when the murder was perpetuated by Jack in expectation that he should be exonerated from any pains or penalties which the law might inflict on him for the part he had acted, and that his testimony would go to convict Jack. This reference is evident since by his particular exertions Jack was brought to trial, and without which in all probability he would have escaped. On these considerations and that of his having only in this particular instance transgressed the laws that has come to our knowledge, and being yet of tender age, we pray your Excellency to grant a pardon in his behalf, and that he may be acquitted and discharged. BEN. EDMONDSON. WILIAAM LIGHTFOOT. JAMES SOUTHALL. JOSEPH VAIDEN. STITH HARDYMAN. In addition to the circumstances above mentioned, I beg leave to make an observation or two on the policy as well as the morality of the subject. I cannot conceive it morally right that he who is only guilty of a small transgression in being in company with a murderer, and being willing to expiate his own offence by rendering to Justice the one guilty of so heinous an offence, should be condemned to die as a murderer, when in relating a story so involved in his own misconduct, it was scarcely possible to avoid convicting himself of the offence at least of being in bad company. That he is a slave and not so much protected from the passions and prejudices of those who have been used to exercise absolute authority over half the human race, and therefor hard indeed if no appeal could lie to the seat of Mercy so wisely instituted by our Government, where cool and dispassionate reason and Justice will preside . As to the policy, I ask what probability will there be of future discoveries if the person who makes them is drawn in to convict himself. RO. MUNFORD, Atto. for the C'wealth on the above trial. At a Court of oyer and Terminer for Charles City County, held at the Courthouse on Wednesday, the 21st day of' November', 1792, for the trial of Will, a negro man, slave, belonging to Elizabeth Archer, charged with aiding and abetting Jack, another Negro man, slave (by his own confession the property of John Jerdon, of the State of North Carolina,) in the murder of James Crew, a labourer: Stith Hardyman, Benjamin Edmondson, William Lightfoot, Joseph Vaidon, and James Southall, Gen. Jus. The said Will was set to the bar in custody of the Sheriif, to whose custody the cause aforesaid he was committed; and being arraigned. of the premises he said he was in nowise guilty, and for his trial, according to the act of Assembly in such case made, he put himself upon the Court. Whereupon, sundry witnesses were sworn and examined, and the said Will's confession, taken in writing before William Royall, a Gen. Justice for this county, being filed, and the same Will being heard in his own defence -- on consideration whereof, it is the opinion of' the Court that the said Will is guilty of the crime aforesaid; and thereupon , it being demanded or him if anything for himself he had or knew why the Court here to Judgement & Execution should not proceed -- he said he had nothing but what he had before said. Therefore it is considered by the Court that he be hanged by the neck until he be dead; and it. is commanded of the Sheriff that. he cause execution of this Judgement to be done on Saturday, the 22nd day of December next, at the usual place of Execution. The Court also valued the said slave to sixty-six pounds. (Signed) STITH HARDYMAN, BENJAMIN EDMONDSON, WILLIAM LIGHTFOOT, JOSEPH VAIDEN, & JAMES SOUTHALL A copy --- Teste: OTEAY BYRD, c. c.