Sam, you don't have to be legitimately offended, have to justify, or have to defend your intentions unless you find it necessary. You don't have to walk on egg shells either! Not in my opinion. I imagine many people thought that Hawkins was a "wantabee" and look how much he, and his work, is used by many for many years. What speaks to you is what you should be pursuing with great zeal and open commitment. Around a month ago, Richard T and Michelle made similar statements that being a Creek/Indian is not all about the quantum of blood heritage one has, but is more of what's inside of that person, or words to that effect. This is what would be called, wisdom speaking. Because I have proven my grand daddy was Indian, and know by apparent facts, rather than having paper trail proof that my dad's mom's side were Indian also, yet can't connect to the original Poarch listed people to be accepted as a Poarch Tribe Member. Does that change who and what my ancestors were or what and who I am? Not at all. At the present, it is disappointing that I and my family can't join up with the very people that were my family's neighbors, friends and even kin, like Hetty Seymoy (Semoice), William Dees, Charles Weatherford, etc. Does that make me a "wanntabee" in any context? Not in my opinion even though it MAY for some on some judgmental lofty perch. Besides....I can think of may MENTORS I have worked at becoming like in many ways. Is that bad? Only if it is to cash in on a commercial agenda taking something from others or if it was destructive to the membership (Meaning any level of blood quantum...or family friends). Fortunately from my studies and practice, I remember one statement Fritz Pearls, Doctor Fritz Pearls the inventor of Gestalt Therapy, made that I use often: "I'm not in this word to live up to your expectations, you are not in it to live up to mine, but by some chance we meet......that's great." My acceptance of me does not come from approval of others even if I don't meet the present "established" criteria for being accepted as a member of anything. No person or one group has the authority or right to prevent one's pursuit of any interest no matter what label you use. I qualify that statement for myself as, "providing that pursuit is not for harm or selfish gratifications." LET IT GO. Most of us that have some Indian blood in us could be seen in the same light by the elders of many years ago....but they didn't do it that way, as stated and restated by Richard T...was not the custom of Creeks. If a qualifying judgment for one NOT being some kind of "wannabee" was for everyone to have suffered the same experiences as our ancestors, not many would be accepted at all! I put off writing this until I couldn't do it any longer.......Richard T says one trait of Creek is we don't do well bridled, controlled, or restricted...OR words to that effect. He's right for this one. TT ----- Original Message ----- From: "Sam Gipson" <[email protected]> To: <[email protected]> Sent: Saturday, August 09, 2008 9:47 AM Subject: Re: [CREEK-SOUTHEAST] In looking forancestorsalwayscheckoutArkansas,Louisiana and Texas > If I sent the Lost Cherokee, to the wrong person, then I apologize. > I will not buy a membership to a NA Group. > That is not right. > I do not expect anything in return, for wanting to know if I have NA blood > in my veins. It would be an Honor, to me at least. But, NO to buying a > card. > If I offend anyone for wanting to know the truth, over family stories, > then > I guess I am a form of a Wantabee. Not intentional. I have English, > (Britain), Scotland, Ireland, and hopefully, NA. > If so, then so be it. If not, then so be it. > > Thank you, Sam > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "csmoke" <[email protected]> > To: <[email protected]>; <[email protected]> > Sent: Friday, August 08, 2008 11:39 PM > Subject: Re: [CREEK-SOUTHEAST] In looking > forancestorsalwayscheckoutArkansas,Louisiana and Texas > > >> Leon, >> I may have used that term wannabe, it is a favorite of mine. Your >> meanings >> are not how I uses it,... for me it is the vast groups who (are not Inds >> or >> even percentages of). The Wanna be groups are significanly expanding in >> my >> hunting grounds (MO) , they conduct pow wows, create crafts (with no >> regard >> or knowing of traditions to anyone/thing...) , enroll "tribal" members >> for >> a fee.., and besides that are just generally offensive. >> >> In referring to the Wanna beeesssss, the term "Culture Vulture" (I have >> heard ..) is appropriate. Used to hear them also called "Cedars" (.. >> inside they have a red heart, but they are white on the outside...). >> They >> have no problem with dancing in their ("Tandy") regalia at their (phony >> pows..). Deliver me from dedicated people!!!! >> Did I mention they have "Chiefs..." ? >> >> Richard T. did not post this,.. it is Richard B. >> >> >> ----- Original Message ----- >> From: "Leon Beard" <[email protected]> >> To: <[email protected]> >> Sent: Friday, August 08, 2008 5:25 PM >> Subject: Re: [CREEK-SOUTHEAST] In looking >> forancestorsalwayscheckoutArkansas,Louisiana and Texas >> >> >>> We must keep in mind that the term wannabe is a negative word that is >>> often used by Native americans that have obtained Federal recognition, >>> to >>> describe anyone that is of indian descent who does not have Federal >>> recognition or a C.D.I.B. card. >>> THe federally Recognized Cherokee bands, view any state recognized >>> cherokee band as being wannabe/phony, the Creek Bands who have Federal >>> recognition have the same viewpoint towards any state recognized group. >>> >>> >>> --- On Thu, 8/7/08, Sam Gipson <[email protected]> wrote: >>> >>>> From: Sam Gipson <[email protected]> >>>> Subject: Re: [CREEK-SOUTHEAST] In looking >>>> forancestorsalwayscheckoutArkansas, Louisiana and Texas >>>> To: [email protected] >>>> Date: Thursday, August 7, 2008, 2:41 PM >>>> Thanks Richard B, >>>> No the tribe is not State or Federally listed on the rolls. >>>> May be one you can buy a membership into. >>>> Look up Lost Cherokee Tribe, Arkansas and Missouri. >>>> >>>> I have some errands to run and will find the site for you >>>> to check out. >>>> >>>> Tks, Sam I know they do not make and sell NA jewelry. >>>> >>>> >>>> ----- Original Message ----- >>>> From: "csmoke" <[email protected]> >>>> To: <[email protected]> >>>> Sent: Wednesday, August 06, 2008 11:21 PM >>>> Subject: Re: [CREEK-SOUTHEAST] In looking >>>> forancestorsalwayscheckoutArkansas,Louisiana and Texas >>>> >>>> >>>> > Sam, >>>> > I did not think they are recognized, but I do not have >>>> a need to know on >>>> > that one. >>>> > >>>> > There were some very early Cherokees settled vicinity >>>> of Dover... (I'm >>>> > getting a vision..)...:o) a significant school or >>>> church situation. This >>>> > is central to the area that John Jolly (chief of the >>>> Old Settlers) 1828/29 >>>> > , >>>> > was located (he maybe my connection, plus where Sam >>>> Huston "holed up" >>>> > before going on to his fame in TX ) and due south of >>>> there on the Arkansas >>>> > River is a large population of Cheroks and a very old >>>> Cherokee cemetery on >>>> > the bluffs above the river. >>>> > By the way, these places are getting in the >>>> neighborhood of where my >>>> > "pioneers" (Thomas Clark from TN in 1853/or >>>> 54) began,... in extreme >>>> > southwest Newton County , AR. Am probably related to >>>> Merle Haggard, he >>>> > claims to be from same place. Everybody (!!) is cuzn >>>> there. There are >>>> > some >>>> > folks that area who quit talking to me about genealogy >>>> (their ancestors >>>> > murdered my gggrandfather Thomas Clark, spring 1863). >>>> As I took apart the >>>> > last threads of information,... I had it and they just >>>> "shut up". >>>> > >>>> > If anyone encounters some research on a battle/attack >>>> (1st week of >>>> > February >>>> > , 1863) involving 7 members of the union 1st AR CAV , >>>> at Mulberry Springs, >>>> > AR, I surely would be interested. It was an attack on >>>> a log "compound" >>>> > against 35 Mankins or Manican Indians. I have looked >>>> some and believe >>>> > these Manikin/Mankins are originally from/part of the >>>> Powhatans in easter >>>> > Virginia ??). The inhabitants of the compound were >>>> paid partisans , hired >>>> > by Peter Mankins. I have read the military record, >>>> but hope there is more >>>> > info "out there". >>>> > >>>> > Richard B. >>>> > >>>> > ----- Original Message ----- >>>> > From: "Sam Gipson" >>>> <[email protected]> >>>> > To: <[email protected]> >>>> > Sent: Wednesday, August 06, 2008 8:52 PM >>>> > Subject: Re: [CREEK-SOUTHEAST] In looking >>>> > forancestorsalwayscheckoutArkansas, Louisiana and >>>> Texas >>>> > >>>> > >>>> >> Thanks Richard B., >>>> >> He is legit. His Uncle and Aunt are on the rolls >>>> and so was his grand >>>> >> parents and parents. >>>> >> His brother also. >>>> >> I understand the situation on the wanta bees. >>>> >> But, it is listed as the Lost Cherokee Nation, >>>> with no benefits, or >>>> >> Federal >>>> >> recognition. >>>> >> Arkansas and Missouri. >>>> >> The main office use to be in Clinton, Ark. and has >>>> now moved to Dover, >>>> >> Ark. >>>> >> if I am not mistaken. >>>> >> Thank you, my friend. >>>> >> >>>> >> Sam >>>> >> ----- Original Message ----- >>>> >> From: "csmoke" >>>> <[email protected]> >>>> >> To: <[email protected]> >>>> >> Sent: Wednesday, August 06, 2008 7:56 PM >>>> >> Subject: Re: [CREEK-SOUTHEAST] In looking for >>>> >> ancestorsalwayscheckoutArkansas, Louisiana and >>>> Texas >>>> >> >>>> >> >>>> >>> Sam, >>>> >>> Not to disappoint, but there are many (many) >>>> wannabe fraudlent groups in >>>> >>> the >>>> >>> area you mention. Before you recognize them, >>>> you might want to find a >>>> >>> site >>>> >>> that lists all the federally recognized tribes >>>> and see if the group you >>>> >>> mention is on the list. >>>> >>> >>>> >>> I have "bumped" into some of these >>>> people and it is disturbing to see >>>> >>> them >>>> >>> using "enrollement cards" with >>>> numbers of their own manufacture. Part >>>> >>> of >>>> >>> the issue for me ( and others..) is they refer >>>> to themselves as Cherokee >>>> >>> tribe and represent craft work (with logos..) >>>> as authentic native >>>> >>> american. >>>> >>> To become one of them, the usually needed >>>> genealogy is a $20 /or check >>>> >>> made >>>> >>> out to them. I have not been arround any of >>>> them for a while (they got >>>> >>> to >>>> >>> know me..) , but I suspect they are still >>>> getting a high level of >>>> >>> membership >>>> >>> enrollment. Most of their starting dialog >>>> with strangers is" we are >>>> >>> descended from Inds who jumped off the >>>> boats,.. my ancestors escaped >>>> >>> from >>>> >>> the trail of tears.." (thats why we are >>>> here, etc..) Yuck. >>>> >>> >>>> >>> Richard B. >>>> >>> >>>> >>> ----- Original Message ----- >>>> >>> From: "Sam Gipson" >>>> <[email protected]> >>>> >>> To: <[email protected]> >>>> >>> Sent: Tuesday, August 05, 2008 8:09 PM >>>> >>> Subject: Re: [CREEK-SOUTHEAST] In looking for >>>> ancestors >>>> >>> alwayscheckoutArkansas, Louisiana and Texas >>>> >>> >>>> >>> >>>> >>>> Richard B, >>>> >>>> I believe the Cherokee's in Ark. and >>>> Missouri, are referred to as the >>>> >>>> Lost >>>> >>>> Cherokee Tribe. A friend has his card, >>>> Lost Cherokee Tribe. (Arkansas >>>> >>>> and >>>> >>>> Missouri) >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> Thanks, Sam >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> ----- Original Message ----- >>>> >>>> From: "csmoke" >>>> <[email protected]> >>>> >>>> To: <[email protected]> >>>> >>>> Sent: Tuesday, August 05, 2008 4:29 PM >>>> >>>> Subject: Re: [CREEK-SOUTHEAST] In looking >>>> for ancestors always >>>> >>>> checkoutArkansas, Louisiana and Texas >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>>> Richard T., when cooking the Opossom, >>>> I guess my ggrandmother forgot >>>> >>>>> to >>>> >>>>> "parboil" and went straight >>>> to the oven. Grease/oil level was half up >>>> >>>>> in >>>> >>>>> the baking pan, but I think they used >>>> to dip their homemade bread in >>>> >>>>> that. >>>> >>>>> That was one of the few foods I tried >>>> and did not acquire a taste for. >>>> >>>>> (too >>>> >>>>> much oil..). How do you get those >>>> roadkills to eat the >>>> >>>>> buttermilk/etc??? >>>> >>>>> >>>> >>>>> In locations for natives,.. remember >>>> that about 1817 was a treaty for >>>> >>>>> the >>>> >>>>> Cherokees (referred to as Old >>>> Settlers) to self emigrate to their >>>> >>>>> Reservation in north central Arkansas. >>>> (they stayed there until about >>>> >>>>> 1830) >>>> >>>>> when the reservation was dissolved in >>>> another treaty and the Old >>>> >>>>> Settlers >>>> >>>>> went to Ind Territory. 1817 look for >>>> "passport" allowing Inds >>>> >>>>> (reds...:o) >>>> >>>>> to travel. >>>> >>>>> >>>> >>>>> Sam Huston , the Texican, was very >>>> hooked to the Cherokees, he was >>>> >>>>> known >>>> >>>>> as >>>> >>>>> "The Raven" & book title >>>> same name , .. in his biography you see >>>> >>>>> much. >>>> >>>>> (one of my family names chief (John >>>> Jolly) , adopted him, but others >>>> >>>>> claim >>>> >>>>> not the same person. Neither of us >>>> can "proove" yes/no , but I have >>>> >>>>> some >>>> >>>>> paper trial for that!! >>>> >>>>> >>>> >>>>> Also, along with your good >>>> information, you did not mention 1811 >>>> >>>>> earthquake >>>> >>>>> SE Missouri "bootheel" , >>>> Cherokee living there with chief "Bowl" , >>>> >>>>> fled >>>> >>>>> to >>>> >>>>> TX , they considered the ground shake >>>> a bad medicine message or >>>> >>>>> something. >>>> >>>>> Quiz.. : Feds made 40 treaties with >>>> the Cherokee,.. how many of the >>>> >>>>> treaty >>>> >>>>> conditions were kept by this govt ?? >>>> (tune in this theatre next week >>>> >>>>> for >>>> >>>>> the answer..)!! >>>> >>>>> >>>> >>>>> Richard B. >>>> >>>>> >>>> >>>>> ----- Original Message ----- >>>> >>>>> From: <[email protected]> >>>> >>>>> To: >>>> <[email protected]> >>>> >>>>> Sent: Tuesday, August 05, 2008 12:22 >>>> PM >>>> >>>>> Subject: [CREEK-SOUTHEAST] In looking >>>> for ancestors always check >>>> >>>>> outArkansas, Louisiana and Texas >>>> >>>>> >>>> >>>>> >>>> >>>>>> The mention about the new museum >>>> In Fort Smith, AK reminded of >>>> >>>>>> something >>>> >>>>>> I >>>> >>>>>> discovered in my research in the >>>> past. I found that thousands and >>>> >>>>>> thousands >>>> >>>>>> of Creeks and Cherokees went west >>>> prior to the Trail of Tears in the >>>> >>>>>> late >>>> >>>>>> 1830s. Very few went initially to >>>> Oklahoma because it was claimed by >>>> >>>>>> other >>>> >>>>>> tribes. Cherokees and Upper >>>> Creeks often went to Arkansas, sometimes >>>> >>>>>> to >>>> >>>>>> Missouri. >>>> >>>>>> Lower Creeks, Alabamas, and >>>> Koasati's went to Louisiana, Texas and >>>> >>>>>> Mexico - >>>> >>>>>> perhaps also to the southern tip >>>> of Arkansas. Some Cherokees went >>>> >>>>>> to >>>> >>>>>> Texas >>>> >>>>>> and then to Mexico. Most >>>> Cherokees were chased out of Texas after >>>> >>>>>> it >>>> >>>>>> became a >>>> >>>>>> Republic. However, a considerable >>>> number of Alabamas, Koasati's and >>>> >>>>>> Lower >>>> >>>>>> Creeks were allowed to stay in >>>> Texas because they had fought along >>>> >>>>>> side >>>> >>>>>> the >>>> >>>>>> Texans against the Mexicans. >>>> >>>>>> >>>> >>>>>> As I mentioned last week, also >>>> look for Friendly "Georgia" Creeks in >>>> >>>>>> Texas. >>>> >>>>>> The Friendly (Hitchiti-speaking) >>>> Creeks were promised that they >>>> >>>>>> could >>>> >>>>>> keep >>>> >>>>>> their farms in Georgia and South >>>> Carolina, but many were either >>>> >>>>>> illegally >>>> >>>>>> dispossessed or felt insecure in >>>> an anti-Indian political >>>> >>>>>> environment. >>>> >>>>>> The >>>> >>>>>> Friendly Creeks carried with them >>>> a hybrid culture that was a >>>> >>>>>> mixture >>>> >>>>>> of >>>> >>>>>> the >>>> >>>>>> Mound-Builders and Scottish >>>> frontiersmen. Many also has aspirations >>>> >>>>>> of >>>> >>>>>> being >>>> >>>>>> planters or ranchers in Texas. >>>> Their descendants tended to blend in >>>> >>>>>> with >>>> >>>>>> the >>>> >>>>>> Texans since Creeks are not that >>>> different in appearance from >>>> >>>>>> Mexican >>>> >>>>>> Mestizos. >>>> >>>>>> >>>> >>>>>> Also, when planning to serve >>>> possum for prominent guests or wedding >>>> >>>>>> parties, >>>> >>>>>> be sure and feed the possum >>>> cornbread and buttermilk for a couple of >>>> >>>>>> weeks >>>> >>>>>> before dressing them. Parboiling >>>> the possum for awhile will get rid >>>> >>>>>> of >>>> >>>>>> the >>>> >>>>>> excess fat created by the >>>> cornbread and buttermilk. >>>> >>>>>> >>>> >>>>>> Richard T. >>>> >>>>>> >>>> >>>>>> >>>> >>>>>> >>>> >>>>>> **************Looking for a car >>>> that's sporty, fun and fits in your >>>> >>>>>> budget? >>>> >>>>>> Read reviews on AOL Autos. >>>> >>>>>> >>>> (http://autos.aol.com/cars-BMW-128-2008/expert-review?ncid=aolaut00050000000017 >>>> >>>>>> ) >>>> >>>>>> >>>> >>>>>> ------------------------------- >>>> >>>>>> To unsubscribe from the list, >>>> please send an email to >>>> >>>>>> >>>> [email protected] with the word >>>> 'unsubscribe' >>>> >>>>>> without >>>> >>>>>> the quotes in the subject and the >>>> body of the message >>>> >>>>>> >>>> >>>>>> >>>> >>>>>> >>>> >>>>>>> >>>> >>>>>> >>>> >>>>> >>>> >>>>> >>>> >>>>> >>>> >>>>> ------------------------------- >>>> >>>>> To unsubscribe from the list, please >>>> send an email to >>>> >>>>> [email protected] >>>> with the word 'unsubscribe' >>>> >>>>> without >>>> >>>>> the quotes in the subject and the body >>>> of the message >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> ------------------------------- >>>> >>>> To unsubscribe from the list, please send >>>> an email to >>>> >>>> [email protected] with >>>> the word 'unsubscribe' >>>> >>>> without >>>> >>>> the quotes in the subject and the body of >>>> the message >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>> >>>> >>> >>>> >>> >>>> >>> ------------------------------- >>>> >>> To unsubscribe from the list, please send an >>>> email to >>>> >>> [email protected] with the >>>> word 'unsubscribe' without >>>> >>> the quotes in the subject and the body of the >>>> message >>>> >> >>>> >> >>>> >> >>>> >> ------------------------------- >>>> >> To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email >>>> to >>>> >> [email protected] with the word >>>> 'unsubscribe' without >>>> >> the quotes in the subject and the body of the >>>> message >>>> >> >>>> >> >>>> >> >>>> >> >>>> > >>>> > >>>> > >>>> > ------------------------------- >>>> > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to >>>> > [email protected] with the word >>>> 'unsubscribe' without >>>> > the quotes in the subject and the body of the message >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> ------------------------------- >>>> To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to >>>> [email protected] with the word >>>> 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and >>>> the body of the message >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> ------------------------------- >>> To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to >>> [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without >>> the quotes in the subject and the body of the message >>> >>> >>> >>> >> >> >> >> ------------------------------- >> To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to >> [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without >> the quotes in the subject and the body of the message > > > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without > the quotes in the subject and the body of the message >