Norton... Now there's a name. Unfortunately, so far as I can see I have only additional questions, though... not answers. Although she was reputed to have owned land in Florida, and may have... as apparently her father (Allen Spear) was born in Spanish Florida, I have to date found records of my great grandmother Sarah Spear's life only in Thomas County, Georgia. She first married James M. Carter, son of Herring Carter. James M. Carter was listed on the 1860 Thomas County, Georgia, census a "manager" for the farm of Mary McCrone. He was shown as age 24, and his wife (Sarah Spear) as age 15. James M. Carter served in the 5th Florida Infantry in the Confederate Army and died as a Union prisoner of war at Elmira, New York, in November of 1864 (Herring Carter had come from Duplin County, NC and had settled briefly in Florida before finally settling in Thomas County, Georgia). These Carters were part Indian and one of their ancestors had served as Indian Agent for the British Colony of North Carolina. After James M. Carter's death, Sarah Spear/Carter married a (William?) *NORTON*. No record can be found for either of Sarah's first two marriages, so I don't know exactly when she married Mr. Norton, nor what became of him, though I presume that he died. Why no record can be found, I'm not sure. Sometimes I wonder if there was a "color" issue as to recording these marriages prior to "Reconstruction"... but I really don't know. It also seems that some early Thomas County marriage records may simply be missing. Sarah Spear/Carter/Norton married my great grandfather William A. White in Thomas County, Georgia, on 23 January 1873. That marriage *was* recorded. By about 1885 both Sarah and William were dead, leaving behind the following children: Martha J. ("Mattie") Carter (who married George Pleasant Jordan in Thomas County, Georgia on 15 January 1879) James H. Carter (who married Jennie Maxwell - date and place unknown) Mary NORTON Susan NORTON Hattie NORTON (married William Hartley - 14 November 1885 in Thomas County, Georgia) Alice White (married James W. Hanley in Thomas County, Georgia, 8 Dec 1889 and reputedly ended up in Columbus, Georgia) William A. White, Jr. (married Adella Clayton Clay 26 Dec 1897 and ended up in Bay County, Florida) John White (my dad said that he worked at sawmills, moved around a lot, murdered a few people, and never married... but I think that he may have married Eulie Smith in Thomas County on 3 May 1900) Sarah White (married James W. Trull 3 March 1895 in Thomas County, Georgia and ended up in Wakulla County, Florida Charles Henry White (my grandfather - married Martha Bama Sellars in Thomas County, Georgia, on 19 January 1902 and ended up in the part of Thomas County, Georgia, that was cut out to make Grady County in 1906) As an orphan, my grandfather was raised by his half-sister Hattie Norton... herself *very* young... and grandpa felt that she "treated him like a slave". The 1890 census was destroyed... but at age 20 in 1900 grandpa was living with his half-brother James H. Carter in DECATUR County, Georgia... in the southern portion of the part that was cut off and joined with part of Thomas County, to form Grady County in 1906. Obviously I know the least about the various Nortons listed... not even being certain of my great grandmother's second husband's name. In the 1860 Thomas County, Georgia, census, James H. Carter & Sarah Spear's household is listed just prior to that of his brother W.(illiam) P. Carter. The next household listed after that was that of M.H. NORTON (age 38) from South Carolina, and his wife Mary (age 37, from Georgia). The children living in this household in 1860 were: Catherine 7 F Ga Elizabeth 6 F Ga Susan 3 F Ga Wm. 16 M Farmer At School Ga James 12 M At School Ga Robt. 7 M At School Ga John 2 M Ga From the way the children were listed it appears that though all were surnamed Norton, those from Wm. on down were probably from a previous marriage of M.H. Norton... or perhaps were the children of a brother or other male relative of his. I based my "educated guess" that "Wm." Norton of this household was my great grandmother's second husband based on his age (one year *older* than her) and the close proximity in which they resided. in 1860 Sarah Spear was, to the best I can figure, at least 1/8 Creek... and I think that her great grandmother (who married William G. Mackey and lived in Wilkinson County, Georgia) was a relative of some kind of Hopoie Micco... because *her* name came down through family oral history as "Hoppoi Miccoy"... but for the life of me I cannot get any more specific than that. As I understand it, William G. Mackey's father had been a trader at Old Oconee Town... probably in the 1770-1800 time frame. Sarah's mother, Sarah Ridley, was a daughter of Nancy Mackey, who was a daughter of William G. Mackey and "Hoppoi Miccoy". I believe that Sarah's father Allen Spear (Spier/Speir) may have also been part Indian as well... but I don't have any real evidence to point to that belief, other than having been born in Spanish Florida. I suspect that one of the Nortons listed above, is the Norton that you are looking for... but I have no idea which one. If anyone knows anything else about any of these Nortons I would love to hear about it. Also... anyone who has insight on that "Hoppoi Miccoy" identification for my 4-great grandmother, I would love to hear about that as well. Maddox's writings on Wilkinson County history give some details of the Mackey, Ridley and Etheridge descendants of "Hoppoi Miccoy"... but my specific ancestor Sarah Ridley's spouse Allen Spear was seriously misidentified by Mr. Maddox, as an old man at the time of his marriage to Sarah Ridley. My 2-great grandparents Allen Spear and Sarah Ridley were approximately the same age. I believe that Maddox was thrown off by Allen Spear having been born in Florida and passing through Wilkinson County only briefly... and by the couple moving to Thomas County soon after they married in 1836. They were in Thomas County for censuses from 1840 through 1860 and though Allen remarried and briefly lived in Decatur County with his second wife, Mary Penny Barber, when he died in 1879 he was buried with his first wife and 2 of their 3 sons who died in Confederate service, in the Old Thomasville Cemetery. Richard White Tallahassee, Florida niksa@wheel-of-time.com wrote: >This is a Message Board Post that is gatewayed to this mailing list. > >Surnames: Strickland, Parker, Crawford, Norton >Classification: Query > >Message Board URL: > >http://boards.ancestry.com/mbexec/msg/rw/5R.2ADI/1079 > >Message Board Post: > >Looking for information about Charity Strickland who is on the Guion Miller Roll Index for Creeks in Georgia. I know she lived in Thomasville around 1919, but I can't determine whether Strickland was her maiden name, or a married name. She had a son with a John Wesley Parker in 1919, and she died in 1953. I am guessing that she was born around 1900. > >I am also looking for information about John Wesley Parker, approx. 1890-1960 from Thomas County, and Annie Laurie Crawford, or some derivation of that name (Ann Laura, Anna Laura etc.), who is recorded as being "part Creek Indian." She was also from the Thomasville area, and moved to Nassau Co. FL, her dates are roughly 1860-1930. She married a Norton. > >If any of this information rings a bell with anyone, let me know. Thanks! >

Hmm, actually, the Annie Laurie Crawford that is my gggrandmother married a William (E?) Norton in 1884, but the thing is, there are SO many William Nortons in my family, it's hard to keep them apart. I believe that Wm Norton's father was Daniel, wife Delila(h), both born in the 1810-1820 area. Daniel is from South Carolina, and served in SC for the Civil War, but I can't find any definate records on him prior to 1850 in Florida, Georgia or South Carolina. I have found that some of my Norton relatives were recorded as "mulatto" "colored" "negro" "part-indian" and also "white" - I mean, one individual who apparently went through "color changes" from census to census. The thing that I believe happened is that since the census was not self-enumerated, the census people might just assume someone was of a certain ethnicity without asking them, and like many things, it was also subject to bribery/forgery/etc. There is a very problematic issue about certain Indian rolls where people bribed the people taking rolls to either include or remove their names from the rolls for various reasons, but also the enumerators sometimes just "guessed" and didn't actually visit all the homes, or asked their neighbors instead, etc. And I've found SO many definate mistakes in the census for my family members in the Thomas Co. area, I'm wondering if that was a problem also. Also, Grady, Colquitt county of today was part of Thomas county at one time, which was part of Irwin county, and since most of the census records indicate only a county, it makes it really hard to figure out where they could have been from. My grandmother said my ggrandfather was from Thomas county, but back then, Thomas county included part of Grady, so that makes the search a bit harder too. But about the marriages, I don't know for sure, but I don't think Georgia required marriage certificates or records until the 1910s or so. I've never been to Thomasville but I wonder if any of the older churches might still have those records. I'm not sure which denomination the Nortons were, but the Nortons in my family that are alive today are Baptist and Methodist. I don't know if churches keep those records, or if they allow distant relatives to access those records, but I will ask one of my relatives who still lives near there to try to look for your missing marriage info also. Though I don't know when or if they will be able to check the churches, and it is a long shot probably. Also, in the case of the other side of my family, sometimes marriages were just "common law" marriages or eloping when it involved "interracial" marriages. I don't know if priests refused to marry them or if it was a family disagreement, but they might have never made it a formal marriage. I had that problem with the Parker side of my family, and it's really hard to find information about them in the census. Plus, I'm not sure how the census works exactly, but most Native Americans were not citizens before something like 1928 (first part of the 1900s anyway) and I don't know if they were deliberately not counted on the census because of that. Back to the Nortons though - that side of the family is huge.. I mean, I am trying to go through the direct route and not map out sibling branches, but for example, one of the Nortons had 16 children in a single family. I believe they had two Williams AND a Willis in those 16 kids. So I'm having a hard time figuring out which William is which. The Nortons seemed to go to Nassau county by the 1920s or so, but there were already some Nortons there - perhaps related, I'm not sure how. They were in the Brandy Branch area, I believe that is near Bryceville. I know I have seen some Carters there, and also in Charlton Co, GA from the late 1800s I know probably not a lot of this is helpful, but thank you for the info! -A. Parker ----- Original Message ----- From: "Richard White" <rw@pone.com> To: <CREEK-SOUTHEAST-L@rootsweb.com> Sent: Saturday, November 08, 2003 7:28 PM Subject: [CREEK-SOUTHEAST] Thomas County, Georgia, NORTON, SPEAR, etc. was Strickland, Parker, Crawford from Thomasville, GA. > > Norton... Now there's a name. > > Unfortunately, so far as I can see I have only additional questions, > though... not answers. > > Although she was reputed to have owned land in Florida, and may have... > as apparently her father (Allen Spear) was born in Spanish Florida, I > have to date found records of my great grandmother Sarah Spear's life > only in Thomas County, Georgia. She first married James M. Carter, son > of Herring Carter. James M. Carter was listed on the 1860 Thomas > County, Georgia, census a "manager" for the farm of Mary McCrone. He > was shown as age 24, and his wife (Sarah Spear) as age 15. James M. > Carter served in the 5th Florida Infantry in the Confederate Army and > died as a Union prisoner of war at Elmira, New York, in November of 1864 > (Herring Carter had come from Duplin County, NC and had settled briefly > in Florida before finally settling in Thomas County, Georgia). These > Carters were part Indian and one of their ancestors had served as Indian > Agent for the British Colony of North Carolina. > > After James M. Carter's death, Sarah Spear/Carter married a (William?) > *NORTON*. No record can be found for either of Sarah's first two > marriages, so I don't know exactly when she married Mr. Norton, nor what > became of him, though I presume that he died. Why no record can be > found, I'm not sure. Sometimes I wonder if there was a "color" issue as > to recording these marriages prior to "Reconstruction"... but I really > don't know. It also seems that some early Thomas County marriage > records may simply be missing. > > Sarah Spear/Carter/Norton married my great grandfather William A. White > in Thomas County, Georgia, on 23 January 1873. That marriage *was* recorded. > > By about 1885 both Sarah and William were dead, leaving behind the > following children: > > Martha J. ("Mattie") Carter (who married George Pleasant Jordan in > Thomas County, Georgia on 15 January 1879) > James H. Carter (who married Jennie Maxwell - date and place unknown) > Mary NORTON > Susan NORTON > Hattie NORTON (married William Hartley - 14 November 1885 in Thomas > County, Georgia) > Alice White (married James W. Hanley in Thomas County, Georgia, 8 Dec > 1889 and reputedly ended up in Columbus, Georgia) > William A. White, Jr. (married Adella Clayton Clay 26 Dec 1897 and ended > up in Bay County, Florida) > John White (my dad said that he worked at sawmills, moved around a lot, > murdered a few people, and never married... but I think that he may have > married Eulie Smith in Thomas County on 3 May 1900) > Sarah White (married James W. Trull 3 March 1895 in Thomas County, > Georgia and ended up in Wakulla County, Florida > Charles Henry White (my grandfather - married Martha Bama Sellars in > Thomas County, Georgia, on 19 January 1902 and ended up in the part of > Thomas County, Georgia, that was cut out to make Grady County in 1906) > > As an orphan, my grandfather was raised by his half-sister Hattie > Norton... herself *very* young... and grandpa felt that she "treated him > like a slave". The 1890 census was destroyed... but at age 20 in 1900 > grandpa was living with his half-brother James H. Carter in DECATUR > County, Georgia... in the southern portion of the part that was cut off > and joined with part of Thomas County, to form Grady County in 1906. > > Obviously I know the least about the various Nortons listed... not even > being certain of my great grandmother's second husband's name. > > In the 1860 Thomas County, Georgia, census, James H. Carter & Sarah > Spear's household is listed just prior to that of his brother W.(illiam) > P. Carter. The next household listed after that was that of M.H. NORTON > (age 38) from South Carolina, and his wife Mary (age 37, from Georgia). > The children living in this household in 1860 were: > > Catherine 7 > F Ga > Elizabeth 6 > F Ga > Susan 3 > F Ga > Wm. 16 M Farmer At > School Ga > James 12 M At > School Ga > Robt. 7 M At > School Ga > John 2 > M Ga > > From the way the children were listed it appears that though all were > surnamed Norton, those from Wm. on down were probably from a previous > marriage of M.H. Norton... or perhaps were the children of a brother or > other male relative of his. I based my "educated guess" that "Wm." > Norton of this household was my great grandmother's second husband based > on his age (one year *older* than her) and the close proximity in which > they resided. in 1860 > > Sarah Spear was, to the best I can figure, at least 1/8 Creek... and I > think that her great grandmother (who married William G. Mackey and > lived in Wilkinson County, Georgia) was a relative of some kind of > Hopoie Micco... because *her* name came down through family oral history > as "Hoppoi Miccoy"... but for the life of me I cannot get any more > specific than that. As I understand it, William G. Mackey's father had > been a trader at Old Oconee Town... probably in the 1770-1800 time > frame. Sarah's mother, Sarah Ridley, was a daughter of Nancy Mackey, > who was a daughter of William G. Mackey and "Hoppoi Miccoy". I believe > that Sarah's father Allen Spear (Spier/Speir) may have also been part > Indian as well... but I don't have any real evidence to point to that > belief, other than having been born in Spanish Florida. > > I suspect that one of the Nortons listed above, is the Norton that you > are looking for... but I have no idea which one. > > If anyone knows anything else about any of these Nortons I would love to > hear about it. > > Also... anyone who has insight on that "Hoppoi Miccoy" identification > for my 4-great grandmother, I would love to hear about that as well. > Maddox's writings on Wilkinson County history give some details of the > Mackey, Ridley and Etheridge descendants of "Hoppoi Miccoy"... but my > specific ancestor Sarah Ridley's spouse Allen Spear was seriously > misidentified by Mr. Maddox, as an old man at the time of his marriage > to Sarah Ridley. My 2-great grandparents Allen Spear and Sarah Ridley > were approximately the same age. I believe that Maddox was thrown off > by Allen Spear having been born in Florida and passing through Wilkinson > County only briefly... and by the couple moving to Thomas County soon > after they married in 1836. They were in Thomas County for censuses > from 1840 through 1860 and though Allen remarried and briefly lived in > Decatur County with his second wife, Mary Penny Barber, when he died in > 1879 he was buried with his first wife and 2 of their 3 sons who died in > Confederate service, in the Old Thomasville Cemetery. > > Richard White > Tallahassee, Florida > > niksa@wheel-of-time.com wrote: > > >This is a Message Board Post that is gatewayed to this mailing list. > > > >Surnames: Strickland, Parker, Crawford, Norton > >Classification: Query > > > >Message Board URL: > > > >http://boards.ancestry.com/mbexec/msg/rw/5R.2ADI/1079 > > > >Message Board Post: > > > >Looking for information about Charity Strickland who is on the Guion Miller Roll Index for Creeks in Georgia. I know she lived in Thomasville around 1919, but I can't determine whether Strickland was her maiden name, or a married name. She had a son with a John Wesley Parker in 1919, and she died in 1953. I am guessing that she was born around 1900. > > > >I am also looking for information about John Wesley Parker, approx. 1890-1960 from Thomas County, and Annie Laurie Crawford, or some derivation of that name (Ann Laura, Anna Laura etc.), who is recorded as being "part Creek Indian." She was also from the Thomasville area, and moved to Nassau Co. FL, her dates are roughly 1860-1930. She married a Norton. > > > >If any of this information rings a bell with anyone, let me know. Thanks! > > > > > > ==== CREEK-SOUTHEAST Mailing List ==== > To unsubscribe, send to CREEK-SOUTHEAST-L-request@rootsweb.com the one word, UNSUBSCRIBE, in the BODY of the message. 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