Thank you for your reply Jerry...My uncle is the one who says we are Creek...but I am pretty sure Cherokee as well...it's like he didn't want to be called Cherokee for some reason...we definetly look Native American...even me with the mixture...I also have Blackfeet, 1/4 Portuguese and 1/4 Irish or Dutch...I am olive complected like my mom...my uncles are real dark...I get real dark in summer...I sure would love to find my family and have paperwork...but if I can't...then, well, I know inside anyways...just hoping to find something...to be a part of the circle...I will try to find more names in my family...that would probably be a big help...OH, and I do have a Creek knot on back of head...lol...not a big one, but it's there...Thank you for all the information...I hope Creator will lead me to my family back in those days...Melody (Little Wolf)... CREEK-SOUTHEAST-D-request@rootsweb.com wrote: > ATTACHMENT part 1 message/rfc822 CREEK-SOUTHEAST-D Digest Volume 05 : Issue 18 Today's Topics: #1 Re: CREEK-SOUTHEAST-Black surname ["Melody \(Little Wolf\)" #2 Re: [CREEK-SOUTHEAST] Re: CREEK-SO ["Jerry Cranford" #3 Chickamauga Band [Yuchimicco@aol.com] #4 Explanation of what "Muskogean" me [Yuchimicco@aol.com] #5 Re: [CREEK-SOUTHEAST] Chickamauga ["Jerry Cranford" Administrivia: To unsubscribe from CREEK-SOUTHEAST-D, send a message to CREEK-SOUTHEAST-D-request@rootsweb.com that contains in the body of the message the command unsubscribe and no other text. No subject line is necessary, but if your software requires one, just use unsubscribe in the subject, too. ______________________________ > ATTACHMENT part 2 message/rfc822 Date: Tue, 25 Jan 2005 15:01:10 -0800 (PST) From: "Melody \(Little Wolf\)" To: CREEK-SOUTHEAST-L@rootsweb.com Subject: Re: CREEK-SOUTHEAST-Black surname Hi, I am searching my Grandfathers side...I don't have much to go by...My Grandfathers name was Richard Black...his fathers name was Walter Black who married Idaho Thomas...now my uncle tells me we are Creek...but back in the day when they put them on reservations, my family fled to the mountains...and are not accounted for...I am thinking maybe someone is from back in our family tree...My Grandfather taugh me Native American ways, but would not talk about our Culture in front of anyone else...he said he was Black Irish or Black Dutch...I know he was born in Tennessee and his parents were born in North Carolina...the last name Black might be a cut off of another name...does anyone have any info at all that might help me??? Thanks, Melody - ------------------------------- Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Search presents - Jib Jab's 'Second Term' ______________________________ > ATTACHMENT part 3 message/rfc822 Date: Tue, 25 Jan 2005 16:26:39 -0700 From: "Jerry Cranford" To: CREEK-SOUTHEAST-L@rootsweb.com Subject: Re: [CREEK-SOUTHEAST] Re: CREEK-SOUTHEAST-Black surname Melody; I don't have any help for you but the mention of "black dutch" brought a smile. My mothers side are cherokee (tslagi) and my grandmother insisted that she was "black dutch" to her dying day even though her grandfather came to IT during the "Trail of Tears". Are you sure they were Creek? My ancestors that were Chereokee were Chicamauga and came from NC through TN and then to IT in about 1834. Some went back to Arkansas for awhile before being pushed back to IT in the late 1830 and early 1840's. Most of the Creeks came from Georgia and Alabama. My dad was Creek (don't really know which group) but they were removed from the Jasper County, Georgia in 1824 (I always get a chuckle when I read about the first "white" child being born in the area about 1815). I was just looking at a photo of his grandfather (my g grandfather) taken about 1875. I am proud of his (our) heritage. They picked up the name Cranford somewhere along the way. My best guess is that they used the name of a trader. My 90 year female old cousin said that all of the women got together and allowed a white man to marry into the clan and that he was a trader. Anyway that is the way the story goes. Good luck! ----- Original Message ----- From: "Melody (Little Wolf)" To: Sent: Tuesday, January 25, 2005 4:01 PM Subject: [CREEK-SOUTHEAST] Re: CREEK-SOUTHEAST-Black surname > > Hi, > > I am searching my Grandfathers side...I don't have much to go by...My > Grandfathers name was Richard Black...his fathers name was Walter Black > who married Idaho Thomas...now my uncle tells me we are Creek...but back > in the day when they put them on reservations, my family fled to the > mountains...and are not accounted for...I am thinking maybe someone is > from back in our family tree...My Grandfather taugh me Native American > ways, but would not talk about our Culture in front of anyone else...he > said he was Black Irish or Black Dutch...I know he was born in Tennessee > and his parents were born in North Carolina...the last name Black might be > a cut off of another name...does anyone have any info at all that might > help me??? Thanks, Melody > > > > --------------------------------- > Do you Yahoo!? > Yahoo! Search presents - Jib Jab's 'Second Term' > > > ==== CREEK-SOUTHEAST Mailing List ==== > Read a Creek book on line: Notes on the Creek, > http://www.accessgenealogy.com/native/creeknotes/ > > ============================== > Search Family and Local Histories for stories about your family and the > areas they lived. Over 85 million names added in the last 12 months. > Learn more: http://www.ancestry.com/s13966/rd.ashx > ______________________________ > ATTACHMENT part 4 message/rfc822 Date: Tue, 25 Jan 2005 19:20:03 EST From: Yuchimicco@aol.com To: CREEK-SOUTHEAST-L@rootsweb.com Subject: Chickamauga Band Folks, don't be shocked but the word Chickamauga is a Muskogean word, and the so-called Chickamauga Cherokees were actually the result of Chief Dragging Canoe leading a band of renegade Cherokees out of the mountains to settle at a Tuskegee (northern Creek) town on the Tennessee River near modern day Chattanooga. Not only that, but Chota, Tennessee the birthplace of Sequoyah, was originally a Tuskegee town. The Tuskegees (actually Tas-ke'-ke') were originally in the Little Tennessee River Valley just west of the Cherokees and Upper Tennessee Valley. They were thoroughly decimated by Spanish swords and diseases. Many of the survivors merged with the Cherokees and within a generation were speaking Tsa-la-gi. There were 2400 Creeks living the Cherokee Nation in Georgia in 1832. Especially, around Rome, and Cartersville, GA there were actually Creek villages happily settled beside Cherokee villages. Many of the Creeks scattered into the mountains prior to the Trail of Tears since they were not on the Cherokee Rolls. Tullahoma, Tennessee got its name for the Tuskegee name meaning "Red Town." If you have a Creek knot - a bony protrusion at the base of the skull above where the neck joins, then you have Muskogean ancesters. Oh, if we only had a time machine to go back and see what really happened 2-500 years ago! Richard ______________________________ > ATTACHMENT part 5 message/rfc822 Date: Tue, 25 Jan 2005 22:35:40 EST From: Yuchimicco@aol.com To: CREEK-SOUTHEAST-L@rootsweb.com Subject: Explanation of what "Muskogean" means Anthropologists define Muskogean as the language spoken by the majority of cultural groups in the Deep Southeast at the time of the European Contact. The name comes from the Muskogees who lived in the Chattahoochee River Valley, but later became the core of the People of One Fire, known to the English as the Creek Confederacy. Because the Muskogees were pretty much at the center of these chiefdoms, their language became the "trade language" that was used for communication between the groups. Many Muskogean chiefdoms disappeared or merged, but today the Muskogee (Creek), Choctaw, Chickasaw, Seminole, Alabama, Koasati, Houma, Ouchita and Caddo speak Muskogean dialects. Creek is a name that the English called the Muskogeans in Georgia and Alabama because their towns and village were usually near navagable streams. The majority of Native Americans in Georgia in 1700 actually spoke Hitchiti, not Muskogee. Hitchiti is a language that is roughly halfway between true Muskogee and Choctaw. Many Seminoles speak Hitchiti today. The Alabamas, Koasati and Tuskegee spoke a language that was even more similar to Choctaw. ______________________________ > ATTACHMENT part 6 message/rfc822 Date: Wed, 26 Jan 2005 07:54:05 -0700 From: "Jerry Cranford" To: CREEK-SOUTHEAST-L@rootsweb.com Subject: Re: [CREEK-SOUTHEAST] Chickamauga Band Richard; Thanks for your information. I understand that the word Cherokee is a Muskogean word as well, being roughly translated as "those who don't speak our language". Your point is well taken. My mothers people came from North Carolina and indeed did settle near Chattanooga. They didn't consider themselves renegades, however. They definitely could not abide living near whites and moved on to IT in the early 1830's. What you wrote re: the Creek and Cherokee and even the Choctaw is reflected in my Dad's stories. His grandmother who was born in the 1840's told him to never go west (I suppose she meant west of Oklahoma). Because, "bad" indians live there. Whatever that meant. I have always been happy about my heritage. Especially, the Creek side. Unfortunately, much of the culture was lost or melded into other cultures ie. Cherokee and Seminole. Some of my family went to south Alabama and just intermarried with the whites. Pretty typical, actually. Jerry ----- Original Message ----- From: To: Sent: Tuesday, January 25, 2005 5:20 PM Subject: [CREEK-SOUTHEAST] Chickamauga Band > Folks, don't be shocked but the word Chickamauga is a Muskogean word, > and > the so-called Chickamauga Cherokees were actually the result of Chief > Dragging > Canoe leading a band of renegade Cherokees out of the mountains to settle > at a > Tuskegee (northern Creek) town on the Tennessee River near modern day > Chattanooga. Not only that, but Chota, Tennessee the birthplace of > Sequoyah, was > originally a Tuskegee town. The Tuskegees (actually Tas-ke'-ke') were > originally in the Little Tennessee River Valley just west of the Cherokees > and > Upper Tennessee Valley. They were thoroughly decimated by Spanish swords > and > diseases. Many of the survivors merged with the Cherokees and within a > generation > were speaking Tsa-la-gi. > > There were 2400 Creeks living the Cherokee Nation in Georgia in 1832. > Especially, around Rome, and Cartersville, GA there were actually Creek > villages > happily settled beside Cherokee villages. Many of the Creeks scattered > into > the mountains prior to the Trail of Tears since they were not on the > Cherokee > Rolls. > > Tullahoma, Tennessee got its name for the Tuskegee name meaning "Red > Town." > > > If you have a Creek knot - a bony protrusion at the base of the skull > above > where the neck joins, then you have Muskogean ancesters. > > Oh, if we only had a time machine to go back and see what really happened > 2-500 years ago! > > Richard > > > > ==== CREEK-SOUTHEAST Mailing List ==== > To unsubscribe, send to CREEK-SOUTHEAST-L-request@rootsweb.com the one > word, UNSUBSCRIBE, in the BODY of the message. If you are subscribed to > the digest, send your unsubscrbe message to > CREEK-SOUTHEAST-D-request@rootsweb.com. Visit the Home page to learn more > http://www.accessgenealogy.com/native/mail/creekse.htm > > ============================== > Search the US Census Collection. Over 140 million records added in the > last 12 months. Largest online collection in the world. Learn more: > http://www.ancestry.com/s13965/rd.ashx > --------------------------------- Do you Yahoo!? Read only the mail you want - Yahoo! Mail SpamGuard.
Melody, there was a BLACK family in the Burke Co. NC region, I don't know much about them but there was a Nathan B. THOMPSON who was suppose to have md. BLACK and she was said to be Native American. I can't remember her first name but I think you will locate her by using the spouse's name in a search. Debbie ----- Original Message ----- From: "Melody (Little Wolf)" <little_wolf_melody@yahoo.com> To: <CREEK-SOUTHEAST-L@rootsweb.com> Sent: Wednesday, January 26, 2005 10:57 AM Subject: [CREEK-SOUTHEAST] Black surname, Thomas, Hall > Thank you for your reply Jerry...My uncle is the one who says we are Creek...but I am pretty sure Cherokee as well...it's like he didn't want to be called Cherokee for some reason...we definetly look Native American...even me with the mixture...I also have Blackfeet, 1/4 Portuguese and 1/4 Irish or Dutch...I am olive complected like my mom...my uncles are real dark...I get real dark in summer...I sure would love to find my family and have paperwork...but if I can't...then, well, I know inside anyways...just hoping to find something...to be a part of the circle...I will try to find more names in my family...that would probably be a big help...OH, and I do have a Creek knot on back of head...lol...not a big one, but it's there...Thank you for all the information...I hope Creator will lead me to my family back in those days...Melody (Little Wolf)... > > CREEK-SOUTHEAST-D-request@rootsweb.com wrote: > > > ATTACHMENT part 1 message/rfc822 > > CREEK-SOUTHEAST-D Digest Volume 05 : Issue 18 > > Today's Topics: > #1 Re: CREEK-SOUTHEAST-Black surname ["Melody \(Little Wolf\)" > #2 Re: [CREEK-SOUTHEAST] Re: CREEK-SO ["Jerry Cranford" #3 Chickamauga Band [Yuchimicco@aol.com] > #4 Explanation of what "Muskogean" me [Yuchimicco@aol.com] > #5 Re: [CREEK-SOUTHEAST] Chickamauga ["Jerry Cranford" > Administrivia: > To unsubscribe from CREEK-SOUTHEAST-D, send a message to > > CREEK-SOUTHEAST-D-request@rootsweb.com > > that contains in the body of the message the command > > unsubscribe > > and no other text. No subject line is necessary, but if your software > requires one, just use unsubscribe in the subject, too. > > ______________________________ > > > ATTACHMENT part 2 message/rfc822 > Date: Tue, 25 Jan 2005 15:01:10 -0800 (PST) > From: "Melody \(Little Wolf\)" > > To: CREEK-SOUTHEAST-L@rootsweb.com > Subject: Re: CREEK-SOUTHEAST-Black surname > > Hi, > > I am searching my Grandfathers side...I don't have much to go by...My Grandfathers name was Richard Black...his fathers name was Walter Black who married Idaho Thomas...now my uncle tells me we are Creek...but back in the day when they put them on reservations, my family fled to the mountains...and are not accounted for...I am thinking maybe someone is from back in our family tree...My Grandfather taugh me Native American ways, but would not talk about our Culture in front of anyone else...he said he was Black Irish or Black Dutch...I know he was born in Tennessee and his parents were born in North Carolina...the last name Black might be a cut off of another name...does anyone have any info at all that might help me??? Thanks, Melody > > > > - ------------------------------- > Do you Yahoo!? > Yahoo! Search presents - Jib Jab's 'Second Term' > > ______________________________ > > > ATTACHMENT part 3 message/rfc822 > Date: Tue, 25 Jan 2005 16:26:39 -0700 > From: "Jerry Cranford" > To: CREEK-SOUTHEAST-L@rootsweb.com > Subject: Re: [CREEK-SOUTHEAST] Re: CREEK-SOUTHEAST-Black surname > > Melody; > I don't have any help for you but the mention of "black dutch" brought a > smile. My mothers side are cherokee (tslagi) and my grandmother insisted > that she was "black dutch" to her dying day even though her grandfather came > to IT during the "Trail of Tears". Are you sure they were Creek? My > ancestors that were Chereokee were Chicamauga and came from NC through TN > and then to IT in about 1834. Some went back to Arkansas for awhile before > being pushed back to IT in the late 1830 and early 1840's. Most of the > Creeks came from Georgia and Alabama. > > My dad was Creek (don't really know which group) but they were removed from > the Jasper County, Georgia in 1824 (I always get a chuckle when I read about > the first "white" child being born in the area about 1815). I was just > looking at a photo of his grandfather (my g grandfather) taken about 1875. > I am proud of his (our) heritage. They picked up the name Cranford > somewhere along the way. My best guess is that they used the name of a > trader. My 90 year female old cousin said that all of the women got > together and allowed a white man to marry into the clan and that he was a > trader. Anyway that is the way the story goes. > > Good luck! > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Melody (Little Wolf)" > > To: > Sent: Tuesday, January 25, 2005 4:01 PM > Subject: [CREEK-SOUTHEAST] Re: CREEK-SOUTHEAST-Black surname > > > > > > Hi, > > > > I am searching my Grandfathers side...I don't have much to go by...My > > Grandfathers name was Richard Black...his fathers name was Walter Black > > who married Idaho Thomas...now my uncle tells me we are Creek...but back > > in the day when they put them on reservations, my family fled to the > > mountains...and are not accounted for...I am thinking maybe someone is > > from back in our family tree...My Grandfather taugh me Native American > > ways, but would not talk about our Culture in front of anyone else...he > > said he was Black Irish or Black Dutch...I know he was born in Tennessee > > and his parents were born in North Carolina...the last name Black might be > > a cut off of another name...does anyone have any info at all that might > > help me??? Thanks, Melody > > > > > > > > --------------------------------- > > Do you Yahoo!? > > Yahoo! Search presents - Jib Jab's 'Second Term' > > > > > > ==== CREEK-SOUTHEAST Mailing List ==== > > Read a Creek book on line: Notes on the Creek, > > http://www.accessgenealogy.com/native/creeknotes/ > > > > ============================== > > Search Family and Local Histories for stories about your family and the > > areas they lived. Over 85 million names added in the last 12 months. > > Learn more: http://www.ancestry.com/s13966/rd.ashx > > > > ______________________________ > > > ATTACHMENT part 4 message/rfc822 > Date: Tue, 25 Jan 2005 19:20:03 EST > From: Yuchimicco@aol.com > To: CREEK-SOUTHEAST-L@rootsweb.com > Subject: Chickamauga Band > > Folks, don't be shocked but the word Chickamauga is a Muskogean word, and > the so-called Chickamauga Cherokees were actually the result of Chief Dragging > Canoe leading a band of renegade Cherokees out of the mountains to settle at a > Tuskegee (northern Creek) town on the Tennessee River near modern day > Chattanooga. Not only that, but Chota, Tennessee the birthplace of Sequoyah, was > originally a Tuskegee town. The Tuskegees (actually Tas-ke'-ke') were > originally in the Little Tennessee River Valley just west of the Cherokees and > Upper Tennessee Valley. They were thoroughly decimated by Spanish swords and > diseases. Many of the survivors merged with the Cherokees and within a generation > were speaking Tsa-la-gi. > > There were 2400 Creeks living the Cherokee Nation in Georgia in 1832. > Especially, around Rome, and Cartersville, GA there were actually Creek villages > happily settled beside Cherokee villages. Many of the Creeks scattered into > the mountains prior to the Trail of Tears since they were not on the Cherokee > Rolls. > > Tullahoma, Tennessee got its name for the Tuskegee name meaning "Red Town." > > > If you have a Creek knot - a bony protrusion at the base of the skull above > where the neck joins, then you have Muskogean ancesters. > > Oh, if we only had a time machine to go back and see what really happened > 2-500 years ago! > > Richard > > ______________________________ > > > ATTACHMENT part 5 message/rfc822 > Date: Tue, 25 Jan 2005 22:35:40 EST > From: Yuchimicco@aol.com > To: CREEK-SOUTHEAST-L@rootsweb.com > Subject: Explanation of what "Muskogean" means > > Anthropologists define Muskogean as the language spoken by the majority of > cultural groups in the Deep Southeast at the time of the European Contact. The > name comes from the Muskogees who lived in the Chattahoochee River Valley, > but later became the core of the People of One Fire, known to the English as > the Creek Confederacy. Because the Muskogees were pretty much at the center of > these chiefdoms, their language became the "trade language" that was used for > communication between the groups. Many Muskogean chiefdoms disappeared or > merged, but today the Muskogee (Creek), Choctaw, Chickasaw, Seminole, > Alabama, Koasati, Houma, Ouchita and Caddo speak Muskogean dialects. Creek is a > name that the English called the Muskogeans in Georgia and Alabama because > their towns and village were usually near navagable streams. The majority of > Native Americans in Georgia in 1700 actually spoke Hitchiti, not Muskogee. > Hitchiti is a language that is roughly halfway between true Muskogee and > Choctaw. Many Seminoles speak Hitchiti today. The Alabamas, Koasati and Tuskegee > spoke a language that was even more similar to Choctaw. > > ______________________________ > > > ATTACHMENT part 6 message/rfc822 > Date: Wed, 26 Jan 2005 07:54:05 -0700 > From: "Jerry Cranford" > To: CREEK-SOUTHEAST-L@rootsweb.com > Subject: Re: [CREEK-SOUTHEAST] Chickamauga Band > > Richard; > Thanks for your information. I understand that the word Cherokee is a > Muskogean word as well, being roughly translated as "those who don't speak > our language". > > Your point is well taken. My mothers people came from North Carolina and > indeed did settle near Chattanooga. They didn't consider themselves > renegades, however. They definitely could not abide living near whites and > moved on to IT in the early 1830's. > > What you wrote re: the Creek and Cherokee and even the Choctaw is reflected > in my Dad's stories. His grandmother who was born in the 1840's told him to > never go west (I suppose she meant west of Oklahoma). Because, "bad" indians > live there. Whatever that meant. I have always been happy about my > heritage. Especially, the Creek side. Unfortunately, much of the culture > was lost or melded into other cultures ie. Cherokee and Seminole. Some of > my family went to south Alabama and just intermarried with the whites. > Pretty typical, actually. > > Jerry > ----- Original Message ----- > From: > To: > Sent: Tuesday, January 25, 2005 5:20 PM > Subject: [CREEK-SOUTHEAST] Chickamauga Band > > > > Folks, don't be shocked but the word Chickamauga is a Muskogean word, > > and > > the so-called Chickamauga Cherokees were actually the result of Chief > > Dragging > > Canoe leading a band of renegade Cherokees out of the mountains to settle > > at a > > Tuskegee (northern Creek) town on the Tennessee River near modern day > > Chattanooga. Not only that, but Chota, Tennessee the birthplace of > > Sequoyah, was > > originally a Tuskegee town. The Tuskegees (actually Tas-ke'-ke') were > > originally in the Little Tennessee River Valley just west of the Cherokees > > and > > Upper Tennessee Valley. They were thoroughly decimated by Spanish swords > > and > > diseases. Many of the survivors merged with the Cherokees and within a > > generation > > were speaking Tsa-la-gi. > > > > There were 2400 Creeks living the Cherokee Nation in Georgia in 1832. > > Especially, around Rome, and Cartersville, GA there were actually Creek > > villages > > happily settled beside Cherokee villages. Many of the Creeks scattered > > into > > the mountains prior to the Trail of Tears since they were not on the > > Cherokee > > Rolls. > > > > Tullahoma, Tennessee got its name for the Tuskegee name meaning "Red > > Town." > > > > > > If you have a Creek knot - a bony protrusion at the base of the skull > > above > > where the neck joins, then you have Muskogean ancesters. > > > > Oh, if we only had a time machine to go back and see what really happened > > 2-500 years ago! > > > > Richard > > > > > > > > ==== CREEK-SOUTHEAST Mailing List ==== > > To unsubscribe, send to CREEK-SOUTHEAST-L-request@rootsweb.com the one > > word, UNSUBSCRIBE, in the BODY of the message. If you are subscribed to > > the digest, send your unsubscrbe message to > > CREEK-SOUTHEAST-D-request@rootsweb.com. Visit the Home page to learn more > > http://www.accessgenealogy.com/native/mail/creekse.htm > > > > ============================== > > Search the US Census Collection. Over 140 million records added in the > > last 12 months. Largest online collection in the world. Learn more: > > http://www.ancestry.com/s13965/rd.ashx > > > > > > --------------------------------- > Do you Yahoo!? > Read only the mail you want - Yahoo! Mail SpamGuard. > > > ==== CREEK-SOUTHEAST Mailing List ==== > To unsubscribe, send to CREEK-SOUTHEAST-L-request@rootsweb.com the one word, UNSUBSCRIBE, in the BODY of the message. If you are subscribed to the digest, send your unsubscrbe message to CREEK-SOUTHEAST-D-request@rootsweb.com. Visit the Home page to learn more http://www.accessgenealogy.com/native/mail/creekse.htm > > ============================== > Search the US Census Collection. Over 140 million records added in the > last 12 months. Largest online collection in the world. Learn more: http://www.ancestry.com/s13965/rd.ashx >