This is a Message Board Post that is gatewayed to this mailing list. Author: ELLinSpain Surnames: Classification: lookup Message Board URL: http://boards.rootsweb.com/localities.northam.usa.special.secreeks/3052.1.1.1.1.3.1.1.1.2.1.1/mb.ashx Message Board Post: WHITE PAGES James W Carnley Sr Is this you? Edit 3350 Schifko Rd Cantonment, FL 32533-9247 (850) 587-5455 Age: 65 Important Note: The author of this message may not be subscribed to this list. If you would like to reply to them, please click on the Message Board URL link above and respond on the board.
This is a Message Board Post that is gatewayed to this mailing list. Author: ELLinSpain Surnames: CARNLEY Classification: lookup Message Board URL: http://boards.rootsweb.com/localities.northam.usa.special.secreeks/3052.1.1.1.1.3.1.1.1.2.1/mb.ashx Message Board Post: DIRECTORIES Name: James W Carnley Address: 3350 Schifko Rd City: Cantonment State: Florida Zip Code: 32533-9247 Phone Number: 850-587-5455 Residence Years: 1998 1999 2000 2001 2002 Important Note: The author of this message may not be subscribed to this list. If you would like to reply to them, please click on the Message Board URL link above and respond on the board.
This is a Message Board Post that is gatewayed to this mailing list. Author: dineencarnley1 Surnames: Classification: queries Message Board URL: http://boards.rootsweb.com/localities.northam.usa.special.secreeks/3052.1.1.1.1.3.1.1.1.2/mb.ashx Message Board Post: yes I have but no luck. James willard Carnley was born on 12-23-1942.My mother told me they lived in pensacola Fl. back in the 1960's. She can't remember their names. I would really like to know the names of his mother and father and their mother and father. Are they living? Does he have brothers or sisters. Thanks Dineen Important Note: The author of this message may not be subscribed to this list. If you would like to reply to them, please click on the Message Board URL link above and respond on the board.
This is a Message Board Post that is gatewayed to this mailing list. Author: katvick Surnames: Classification: queries Message Board URL: http://boards.rootsweb.com/localities.northam.usa.special.secreeks/75.587/mb.ashx Message Board Post: I am trying to link my grandfather. He was Albert Relee Thomas. I have some papers that link them together but I am trying to get diffent proof of the links of them together. Important Note: The author of this message may not be subscribed to this list. If you would like to reply to them, please click on the Message Board URL link above and respond on the board.
This is a Message Board Post that is gatewayed to this mailing list. Author: loliez Surnames: kelly Classification: queries Message Board URL: http://boards.rootsweb.com/localities.northam.usa.special.secreeks/75.586/mb.ashx Message Board Post: My Brothers father is full blood creek Indian lived in Oklahoma. Marshall Kelly( Names Tecumseh Tiger Sampson Tiger Susan Tiger. Alabaster Tiger have role # on all. Have some information on all. Laura Pacheco Important Note: The author of this message may not be subscribed to this list. If you would like to reply to them, please click on the Message Board URL link above and respond on the board.
This is a Message Board Post that is gatewayed to this mailing list. Author: ELLinSpain Surnames: CARNLEY Classification: biography Message Board URL: http://boards.rootsweb.com/localities.northam.usa.special.secreeks/3052.1.1.1.1.3.1.1.1.1.1/mb.ashx Message Board Post: Name: Aline H. Carnley SSN: 265-77-0087 Last Residence: 32526 Pensacola, Escambia, Florida, United States of America Born: 26 Sep 1921 Last Benefit: 32533 Cantonment, Escambia, Florida, United States of America Died: 7 Jun 2007 State (Year) SSN issued: Florida (1977) Name: Aline K Carnley Birth Date: Sep 1921 Phone Number: 968-3032 Address: 282 Muscogee Rd, Cantonment, Florida 32533-0901 (1993)CA Important Note: The author of this message may not be subscribed to this list. If you would like to reply to them, please click on the Message Board URL link above and respond on the board.
This is a Message Board Post that is gatewayed to this mailing list. Author: dineencarnley1 Surnames: Classification: queries Message Board URL: http://boards.rootsweb.com/localities.northam.usa.special.secreeks/3052.1.1.1.1.3.1.1.1.1/mb.ashx Message Board Post: yes i have, but didn't get anywhere. i think she(his mother) lives in florida (cantonment)i get forwarded to a page that wants money for the info. Name is Aline K. Carnley i think. Thanks Dineen Important Note: The author of this message may not be subscribed to this list. If you would like to reply to them, please click on the Message Board URL link above and respond on the board.
This is a Message Board Post that is gatewayed to this mailing list. Author: ELLinSpain Surnames: Classification: queries Message Board URL: http://boards.rootsweb.com/localities.northam.usa.special.secreeks/3052.1.1.1.1.3.1.1.1/mb.ashx Message Board Post: have you tried White Pages? Important Note: The author of this message may not be subscribed to this list. If you would like to reply to them, please click on the Message Board URL link above and respond on the board.
This is a Message Board Post that is gatewayed to this mailing list. Author: dineencarnley1 Surnames: Classification: queries Message Board URL: http://boards.rootsweb.com/localities.northam.usa.special.secreeks/3052.1.1.1.1.3.1.1/mb.ashx Message Board Post: escambia is correct but do you know of any livivng relatives like motherfather or sisters or brothers? names and addresses would be great. Thank you Dineen Important Note: The author of this message may not be subscribed to this list. If you would like to reply to them, please click on the Message Board URL link above and respond on the board.
This is a Message Board Post that is gatewayed to this mailing list. Author: ELLinSpain Surnames: CARNLEY Classification: biography Message Board URL: http://boards.rootsweb.com/localities.northam.usa.special.secreeks/3052.1.1.1.1.3.1/mb.ashx Message Board Post: You hav'nt given an idea of where... FLORIDA Name: James Willard Carnley Marriage Date: Jan 1968 County of Marriage: Escambia Volume: 2601 Certificate: 1681 Source: Florida Department of Health Name: James Willard Carnley Marriage Date: 13 Nov 1970 County of Marriage: Escambia Gender: Male Race: White Volume: 2973 Certificate: 059398 Source: Florida Department of Health Name: James Willard Carnley Marriage Date: 1 Oct 1977 County of Marriage: Escambia Gender: Male Race: White Volume: 4156 Certificate: 067982 Source: Florida Department of Health FLORIDA DIVORCE Name: James Willard Carnley Gender: Male Spouse's name: Micky Divorce Date: 6 Mar 1970 County: Escambia Certificate Number: 006707 Name: James Willard Carnley Gender: Male Spouse's name: Kay Divorce Date: 22 Nov 1976 County: Escambia Certificate Number: 054761 PUBLIC RECORDS Name: James Willard Carnley Jr Birth Date: Sep 1962 Phone Number: 891-7990 Address: 1621 S 14th St, Birmingham, Alabama 35205-0601 (1992) [1410 S 14th St, Birmingham, Alabama 35205-0501 (1992)] [1610 14th South St, Birmingham, Alabama 35205] Important Note: The author of this message may not be subscribed to this list. If you would like to reply to them, please click on the Message Board URL link above and respond on the board.
If you or he came from the Pan Handle of FL, Escambia Co at Century FL area, my home town, or across the border into Escambia Co, Alabama, you may have heard of John Carnley who graduated from Century High School in 1960? He would be in the general area of your dad's birth year. TT ----- Original Message ----- From: <gc-gateway@rootsweb.com> To: <CREEK-SOUTHEAST-L@rootsweb.com> Sent: Saturday, January 02, 2010 12:16 AM Subject: Re: [CREEK-SOUTHEAST] Ancestry search > This is a Message Board Post that is gatewayed to this mailing list. > > Author: dineencarnley1 > Surnames: carnley > Classification: queries > > Message Board URL: > > http://boards.rootsweb.com/localities.northam.usa.special.secreeks/3052.1.1.1.1.3/mb.ashx > > Message Board Post: > > gee if i only knew the carnleys had this yrs ago.I am looking for my > grandmother or grandfather. My fathers name is James Willard Carnley. His > b-day is 12-23-1942. my mothers name is yonnie k myers. I have only met my > father once and that was in 1976 or 75. I do talk with him evry so often > but it seems to me he doesn't want me to have this info. why i don't know. > he has since remarried and has 2 other children that are grown adults as > well. he does not want my sister and i to have any contact with our own > relatives. i'm puzzled. if anyone can help me plesae do. my email address > is dineencarnley@hotmail.com. > If he has any sisters or brothers and you know of them send them my way > would love to get to know the carnleys. > > Thank You > Dineen > > Important Note: > The author of this message may not be subscribed to this list. If you > would like to reply to them, please click on the Message Board URL link > above and respond on the board. > > > > Notes on the Creek Indians > http://www.accessgenealogy.com/native/creeknotes/index.htm > > Early Creek History > http://www.accessgenealogy.com/native/creek/early-history/ > > Migration Legend of the Creek Indians > http://www.accessgenealogy.com/native/creek/migration/ > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > CREEK-SOUTHEAST-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without > the quotes in the subject and the body of the message
This is a Message Board Post that is gatewayed to this mailing list. Author: dineencarnley1 Surnames: carnley Classification: queries Message Board URL: http://boards.rootsweb.com/localities.northam.usa.special.secreeks/3052.1.1.1.1.3/mb.ashx Message Board Post: gee if i only knew the carnleys had this yrs ago.I am looking for my grandmother or grandfather. My fathers name is James Willard Carnley. His b-day is 12-23-1942. my mothers name is yonnie k myers. I have only met my father once and that was in 1976 or 75. I do talk with him evry so often but it seems to me he doesn't want me to have this info. why i don't know. he has since remarried and has 2 other children that are grown adults as well. he does not want my sister and i to have any contact with our own relatives. i'm puzzled. if anyone can help me plesae do. my email address is dineencarnley@hotmail.com. If he has any sisters or brothers and you know of them send them my way would love to get to know the carnleys. Thank You Dineen Important Note: The author of this message may not be subscribed to this list. If you would like to reply to them, please click on the Message Board URL link above and respond on the board.
Wisdom of our ancestors....pass it on EagleLittle ____________________________________ From: eagle@bigbend.net Sent: 12/28/2009 5:45:54 P.M. Eastern Standard Time Subj: Elder's Meditation of the Day December 26, 27, 28, 29, 30, & 31 Elder's Meditation of the Day December 26 "The way of knowledge is like our old way of hunting. You begin with a mere trail -- a footprint. If you follow that faithfully, it may lead you to a clearer train-a track- a road. Later on there will be many tracks, crossing and diverging one from the other. Then you must be careful, for success lies in the choice of the right road." --Many Lightenings Eastman, SANTEE SIOUX An entire apple tree is initially contained in the seed. Visions are initially contained in the idea. If you trace the path of a blooming flower backwards, it goes from the blooming flower back to a bud, back to a stem, back to a seed. So it is in the way of knowledge. Often we will experience a hunch or a feeling that we are supposed to do something. At first it may not make any sense. This is the seed stage. Once we start to investigate, more gets revealed. As more is revealed, the more knowledge we get. This is the way the Great Spirit guides us. Great Spirit, help me to choose the right choices. Elder's Meditation of the Day - December 27 "When temptation comes, I don't say, `Yes," and I don't say, `No.' I say, `Later,' I just keep walking the Red Road-down the middle. When you're in the middle, you don't go to either extreme. You allow both sides to exist." --Dr. A. C. Ross (Ehanamani), LAKOTA We need to practice controlling our focus. Whatever we focus on we become. We also become whatever we practice. We need to focus on balance. Whenever something comes along to tilt us off balance, we need to be grateful, because it allows the opportunity to practice our focus. Sometimes this is called temptation. Temptation in itself is not bad. What really counts is what we do with it when it happens. We need to practice controlling our focus and keeping our thinking focused on the Red Road. Great Spirit, today guide me through my temptations and allow me to focus on the Red Road. Elder's Meditation of the Day December 28 "I believe that being a medicine man, more than anything else, is a state of mind, a way of looking at and understanding this earth, a sense of what it is all about." --Lame Deer, LAKOTA The Medicine Wheel explains different ways of looking at the world. The four directions are the East, the South, the West and the North. In the East is the view of the eagle-the eagle flies high and sees the earth from that point of view. The South is the direction of the mouse. Moving on the earth, the mouse will not see what the eagle sees. Both the eagle and the mouse see the truth. The West is the direction of the bear-the bear will see different from the mouse and the eagle. From the North comes the point of view of the bison. To be a Medicine Man you must journey through all points of view and develop the mind to see the interconnectedness of all four directions. This takes time, patience and an open mind. Eventually, you understand there is only love. Great Spirit, today, allow my mind to stay open. Elder's Meditation of the Day - December 29 "What you see with your eyes shut is what counts." --Lame Deer, LAKOTA Another whole world opens up when we close our eyes and calm our mind. Be still and know; be still and hear; be still and see; be still and feel. Inside every person is a still, small voice. Sometime it is necessary to close our eyes to shut down our perception in order to see. Try this occasionally; when you are talking to your child or spouse, close your eyes and listen to them. Listen to the tone of their voice; listen to their excitement; listen to their pain-listen. Great Spirit, today, let me hear only what really counts. Elder's Meditation of the Day - December 30 "Always remember that the Great Mystery is good; evil can come only from ourselves!" --Grandmother of Charles Eastman. SANTEE SIOUX The Great Mystery is love, good and principle. He is a guiding Father. He doesn't play games. He knows only how to love. Sometimes, when things go wrong, we blame Him or others. Usually, if we are honest, we can see how decisions or things done in the past put us in a position to be hurt. It comes back to us. When this happens, it is not something the Creator caused, but something we, ourselves caused. Most of our problems are of our own making. When this happens, we should correct what we've done, ask the Great Spirit for forgiveness and pray for guidance in the future. My Creator, bless me with Your good. Elder's Meditation of the Day - December 31 "They must give themselves to Wakan' Tanka and live a spiritual life. They will have the peace that frees them from fear." --Frank Fools Crow, LAKOTA There are two wills available for us: self will and God's will. Our choice is: figure it out ourselves, or have the Creator involved in our lives. If we are honest with ourselves and look at past experiences, what are our lives like when we try to figure it out ourselves? Is there fear, confusion, frustration, anger, attacking others, conflict, fault finding, manipulation, teasing others, belittling others or devaluation? If these things are present, they indicate that we are choosing self will. What is it like if we turn our will over to the Creator? What are the results if we ask the Great Spirit to guide our life? Examples are: freedom, choices, consequences, love forgiveness, helping others, happiness, joy, solutions, and peace. Which will I choose today, self will or God's will? Creator, I know what my choice is. I want You to direct my life. I want You to direct my thinking. You are the Grandfather. You know what I need even before I do. Today I ask You to tell me what I can do for You today. Tell me in a way I can understand and I will be happy to do it. Elder's Meditation brought to you courtesy of Flight of the Eagle, Inc. a 501(c)3 organization founded to honor Native American heroes www.flightoftheeagle.us The meditation is generously offered to us by White Bison and is copy written. You are welcome to pass the meditation on but cannot post it on your websites. I wish each and every one of you a very happy and prosperous New Year. Little Eagle
This is a Message Board Post that is gatewayed to this mailing list. Author: @@mmwiggins@msn.com Surnames: Classification: queries Message Board URL: http://boards.rootsweb.com/localities.northam.usa.special.secreeks/963.1.1/mb.ashx Message Board Post: yes this is my line of Wiggins as well. I was trying to see how Joshua ( my gx2 granfather ) got the Eastern Creek roll number. Important Note: The author of this message may not be subscribed to this list. If you would like to reply to them, please click on the Message Board URL link above and respond on the board.
Wonderful, thoughtful, wise and uplifting. Hope you will continue sharing these. -- Cheery Fats On Dec 28, 2009, at 5:26 PM, Jacnrg@aol.com wrote: > > Wisdom of our ancestors....pass it on > > EagleLittle > > > ____________________________________ > From: eagle@bigbend.net > Sent: 12/28/2009 5:45:54 P.M. Eastern Standard Time > Subj: Elder's Meditation of the Day December 26, 27, 28, 29, > 30, & 31 > > > Elder's Meditation of the Day December 26 > > "The way of knowledge is like our old way of hunting. You begin > with a > mere trail -- a footprint. If you follow that faithfully, it may > lead you > to a clearer train-a track- a road. Later on there will be many > tracks, > crossing and diverging one from the other. Then you must be > careful, for > success lies in the choice of the right road." > > --Many Lightenings Eastman, SANTEE SIOUX > > An entire apple tree is initially contained in the seed. Visions are > initially contained in the idea. If you trace the path of a blooming > flower backwards, it goes from the blooming flower back to a bud, > back to > a stem, back to a seed. So it is in the way of knowledge. Often we > will > experience a hunch or a feeling that we are supposed to do > something. At > first it may not make any sense. This is the seed stage. Once we > start to > investigate, more gets revealed. As more is revealed, the more > knowledge > we get. This is the way the Great Spirit guides us. > > Great Spirit, help me to choose the right choices. > > > > > > Elder's Meditation of the Day - December 27 > > "When temptation comes, I don't say, `Yes," and I don't say, `No.' > I say, > `Later,' I just keep walking the Red Road-down the middle. When > you're in > the middle, you don't go to either extreme. You allow both sides to > exist." > > --Dr. A. C. Ross (Ehanamani), LAKOTA > > We need to practice controlling our focus. Whatever we focus on we > become. We also become whatever we practice. We need to focus on > balance. > Whenever something comes along to tilt us off balance, we need to be > grateful, because it allows the opportunity to practice our focus. > Sometimes this is called temptation. Temptation in itself is not bad. > What really counts is what we do with it when it happens. We need to > practice controlling our focus and keeping our thinking focused on > the > Red Road. > > Great Spirit, today guide me through my temptations and allow me > to focus > on the Red Road. > > > > > > > Elder's Meditation of the Day December 28 > > "I believe that being a medicine man, more than anything else, is > a state > of mind, a way of looking at and understanding this earth, a sense of > what it is all about." > > --Lame Deer, LAKOTA > > The Medicine Wheel explains different ways of looking at the > world. The > four directions are the East, the South, the West and the North. > In the > East is the view of the eagle-the eagle flies high and sees the earth > from that point of view. The South is the direction of the mouse. > Moving > on the earth, the mouse will not see what the eagle sees. Both the > eagle > and the mouse see the truth. The West is the direction of the bear- > the > bear will see different from the mouse and the eagle. From the North > comes the point of view of the bison. To be a Medicine Man you must > journey through all points of view and develop the mind to see the > interconnectedness of all four directions. This takes time, > patience and > an open mind. Eventually, you understand there is only love. > > Great Spirit, today, allow my mind to stay open. > > > > > > Elder's Meditation of the Day - December 29 > > "What you see with your eyes shut is what counts." > > --Lame Deer, LAKOTA > > Another whole world opens up when we close our eyes and calm our > mind. Be > still and know; be still and hear; be still and see; be still and > feel. > Inside every person is a still, small voice. Sometime it is > necessary to > close our eyes to shut down our perception in order to see. Try this > occasionally; when you are talking to your child or spouse, close > your > eyes and listen to them. Listen to the tone of their voice; listen to > their excitement; listen to their pain-listen. > > Great Spirit, today, let me hear only what really counts. > > > > > > Elder's Meditation of the Day - December 30 > > "Always remember that the Great Mystery is good; evil can come > only from > ourselves!" > > --Grandmother of Charles Eastman. SANTEE SIOUX > > The Great Mystery is love, good and principle. He is a guiding > Father. He > doesn't play games. He knows only how to love. Sometimes, when > things go > wrong, we blame Him or others. Usually, if we are honest, we can > see how > decisions or things done in the past put us in a position to be > hurt. It > comes back to us. When this happens, it is not something the Creator > caused, but something we, ourselves caused. Most of our problems > are of > our own making. When this happens, we should correct what we've > done, ask > the Great Spirit for forgiveness and pray for guidance in the future. > > My Creator, bless me with Your good. > > > > > > Elder's Meditation of the Day - December 31 > > "They must give themselves to Wakan' Tanka and live a spiritual life. > They will have the peace that frees them from fear." > > --Frank Fools Crow, LAKOTA > > There are two wills available for us: self will and God's will. Our > choice is: figure it out ourselves, or have the Creator involved > in our > lives. If we are honest with ourselves and look at past > experiences, what > are our lives like when we try to figure it out ourselves? Is > there fear, > confusion, frustration, anger, attacking others, conflict, fault > finding, > manipulation, teasing others, belittling others or devaluation? If > these > things are present, they indicate that we are choosing self will. > What is > it like if we turn our will over to the Creator? What are the > results if > we ask the Great Spirit to guide our life? Examples are: freedom, > choices, consequences, love forgiveness, helping others, > happiness, joy, > solutions, and peace. Which will I choose today, self will or > God's will? > > > Creator, I know what my choice is. I want You to direct my life. I > want > You to direct my thinking. You are the Grandfather. You know what > I need > even before I do. Today I ask You to tell me what I can do for You > today. > Tell me in a way I can understand and I will be happy to do it. > > > > Elder's Meditation brought to you courtesy of > Flight of the Eagle, Inc. > a 501(c)3 organization > founded to honor Native American heroes > www.flightoftheeagle.us > > The meditation is generously offered to us by White Bison and is > copy > written. You are welcome to pass the meditation on but cannot > post it on > your websites. > > I wish each and every one of you a very happy and prosperous New > Year. > Little Eagle > > > > > > Notes on the Creek Indians http://www.accessgenealogy.com/native/ > creeknotes/index.htm > > Early Creek History http://www.accessgenealogy.com/native/creek/ > early-history/ > > Migration Legend of the Creek Indians http:// > www.accessgenealogy.com/native/creek/migration/ > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to CREEK- > SOUTHEAST-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without > the quotes in the subject and the body of the message
This is a Message Board Post that is gatewayed to this mailing list. Author: WilsonR_P Surnames: Classification: queries Message Board URL: http://boards.rootsweb.com/localities.northam.usa.special.secreeks/963.1/mb.ashx Message Board Post: Homer I know that 2009 is a long way from 2003 but I have just now run across your post. I don't know if my info. is what you are lookig for or not. I have a Joshua Wiggins in my ancestry. Here the break down that I have. William Wiggins B 1755 D 1819 Wife Elizabeth Cooper B 1759 D 1825 Son Elisha Wiggins B1776 D 1825 Wife Nancy Locke B1785 D 1825 Son Joshua Wiggins B 1818 D 1879 Wife Lucinda Presley B 1818 D 1895 Daughter Martha C. Wiggins B 1840 D1940. As I say I don't know if any of this is what you need or not. Important Note: The author of this message may not be subscribed to this list. If you would like to reply to them, please click on the Message Board URL link above and respond on the board.
I have a friend with Cherokee ancestry. Is there a Rootsweb site for the Cherokee's? If so - please let me know what it is and how she goes about signing up. Thank you so much for your help! Edith
> Didn't the Muskogee "Traditional" year consists of 13 moons of 28 days each? > I think this is what you were referring to as the Lunar Calendar. Twelve of > these moons recorded as the center and corner posts of the four cabins of > the Square Ground while the 13th that completed the year was recorded as the > center point of the square (the fire). When the fire was moved to the "Round Cabin", the > "Dark Days" came until the Berry Ceremony was conducted after the > first of the year (presently used calendar that is). Each of days of the > "traditional" Muskogean year were given animal names...not the moons like we > do for months today. Each medicine animal represents (present tense) 13 > days each...so 28 days times 13 days equals 364 days. The order of the > named animals were given a number with name. The first day of the year was > always the summer solstice. > > This subject being discussed and in what appears to be a simple square of > houses (Shelters today) with a fire in the center of the sacred open ground is > very complicated and yet enlightening...is a honored tradition about our people of the > past and what we practice in the present.....some of us that is. > > Allow me to recommend a recently released book entitled, "TIMES SQUARE: An > Introduction to the Esoterica of the Muskogee (Creek) Square" by Michael > Kendrick. He is the Square Ground Leader (And a really good one > at that.....great leader) at the Lower Muskogee Creek Tribe, (TAMA Town) > Whigham, GA. Contact: Yvtekv Press, 2885 Duffell-Martin > Road, Comer, GA 30629 ISBN : 978-0-615-30276-8. NOTE: YOU CAN ORDER THIS BOOK THROUGH AMAZON.COM ($39.95), OR FOR A $27.00 MONEY ORDER (FOR US CREEKS :)) YOU CAN SEND YOUR CONTACT INFORMATION DIRECTLY TO THE PUBLISHER'S ADDRESS I JUST GAVE YOU. Remember....money order, not a check, made out to Yvtekv Press. (Yvtekv is Muskogee for "Interpreter") For the Square Ground traditionalist that worry about "The Secrets of the Square" or tribe being > revealed in this book for exploiting, fear not......it does not do so. This > book is pretty much a large excerpt from a much greater recorded record. No...I > don't have a phone number or email address for the book publisher....it is > copyrighted as well, by the way. Mike wrote a long Foreword and understands this book > will produce pro and con conversations, based on what I read that is. I can > not speak for the author....would get lost in the conversation anyhow. > ----- Original Message ----- > From: <talliyasoutheast@aol.com> > To: <creek-southeast@rootsweb.com> > Sent: Sunday, December 20, 2009 7:36 AM > Subject: [CREEK-SOUTHEAST] The Significance of Winter Solstice in Creek > TownPlanning Traditions > > > > > > Most Native Americans have heard of the Creek Green Corn Festival or in > > Mvskoke, Poskita. Several other tribes hold similar ceremonies at the > > Summer > > Solstice, but their rituals are not as extensive. It was the Creek New > > Year's celebration. The Creek Solar Calendar contained 12 months of 30 > > days > > each. There was also a Lunar Calendar, which seems to have gone back to > > the > > days when our ancestors were hunters and gatherers. To adjust the solar > > calendar with the actual cycle of the earth around the sun, 5 1/4 days > > composed Poskita. The Keepers of the Day monitored the sun, planets and > > stars > > from mountain top observatories, and set the days for Poskita. It was > > time > > when engagements were announced, marriages were held and grudges > > forgotten. > > Old fires in the domestic hearth were extinguished. Happily married > > couples > > would walk together to the temple, each carrying one thong attached to a > > special Poskita pot. The Keepers of the Fire priests would then give > > them > > coals from a new fire, that had been ignited by the sun, using mirrors > > and > > crystals. With these coals, the couple would renew their marriage vows > > and > > rekindle their hearths. > > > > With the importance of the Summer Solstice, one would expect that > > ancestral Creek towns would be oriented to the east or west where the sun > > rose on > > the Summer Solstice. This in fact, was the case in the first towns with > > mounds, that started developing about 2200 years ago. There was temple > > mound, > > covering two acres, built at a town on the Etowah River in NW Georgia. It > > was constructed and occupied during the exact same period that the > > Pyramid > > of the Sun at Teotihuacan, Mexico was constructed and occupied. Both also > > faced the point where the sun rose on the Summer Solstice > > > > The Apalachees were a Muskogean people concentrated in northern Florida, > > who practiced a Mesoamerican type religion of multiple gods and goddesses. > > Otherwise, their culture and language were probably almost identical to > > their > > cousins to the north, the Hitchiti provinces, who practiced monotheism > > and ritual baptism. Apalachee towns were oriented to the sunrise and > > sunset > > on the Summer Solstice. This was even true for the Apalachee towns in > > western North Carolina and north central Georgia. That's how the > > Appalachian > > Mountains got their name! Apparently, either the Apalachee were originally > > from these mountains, or else founded a colony in the Hiwassee River > > Valley to > > secure highland resources. > > > > I came upon a big surprise, however, when I began analyzing the many large > > towns that started developing in Georgia, North Carolina and South > > Carolina > > after 900 AD - in the same manner I analyze more recent cities. They were > > NOT oriented to the sunrise on the Summer Solstice. Several > > archaeologists, who had gone far enough in their studies of archeological > > sites, to look > > at the whole town plans, had noticed that the buildings were aligned. One > > professor from the University of Georgia even pondered in his book, why > > the > > largest mounds and plaza at Ocmulgee were aligned to a 25.5 degree angle, > > southwest. > > > > Obviously, these archaeologists had not been Boy Scouts! Modern maps are > > oriented to magnetic North. The difference between magnetic north and True > > (solar) North differs according to a town's location. At Ocmulgee, the > > difference is 6.5 degrees. You add 6.5 degrees to 25.5 degrees and you > > get 32 > > degrees - the declination of the sunrise and sunset on the Winter > > Solstice. > > Most major temple mounds in Georgia built after 900 AD are oriented to the > > sunset on the Winter Solstice! Perhaps, this change in town planning was > > the result of a change in religious practices. We really don't know, > > but > > the symbolism is that life begins again after the apparent death throws of > > the sun. > > > > Analysis of the locations of the major towns in Georgia, South Carolina, > > western North Carolina and eastern Tennessee absolutely astounded me. > > ALL > > of the major towns with large mounds from the Early and Middle Hierarchal > > Period, are precisely located on a triangular matrix formed by True North > > and > > the angle of the Winter Solstice sunset. The principal temple mounds in > > these "mother towns" were five sided. The towns are all located on the > > points of Winter Solstice triangles. In fact, I have found several mound > > sites > > that few people or nobody knew about, merely by using a computer to draw > > the > > triangular matrix over a USGS map of the lower Southeast. Ocmulgee is on > > the same latitude line as Poverty Point, LA, which was community begun > > 2100 > > years BEFORE Ocmulgee, and on the same longitude line as the Great > > Serpent > > Mound in Ohio, which was constructed about 100 years AFTER Ocmulgee was > > begun. > > > > How all this was done . . . I have not a clue. However, this town > > planning tradition reaffirms what we Creeks always have known. Just at > > the point > > in time when it seems that the Darkness has prevailed, the Light > > triumphs > > and begins the cycle of life again. > > > > I will be happy to email you the drawings I did of the Ladds Mountain > > Observatory for Ancient Roots II: The Etowah River Valley - or perhaps > > Judy the > > web site mom can post them on her separate web site. > > Notes on the Creek Indians > > http://www.accessgenealogy.com/native/creeknotes/index.htm > > > > Early Creek History > > http://www.accessgenealogy.com/native/creek/early-history/ > > > > Migration Legend of the Creek Indians > > http://www.accessgenealogy.com/native/creek/migration/ > > ------------------------------- > > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > > CREEK-SOUTHEAST-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without > > the quotes in the subject and the body of the message > > -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Hotmail: Free, trusted and rich email service. Get it now.
Judy, Would love to see the Ladd's Mountain drawings. Thanks, Vicki -----Original Message----- From: Judy White <jwhite@loganet.net> To: creek-southeast@rootsweb.com Sent: Sun, Dec 20, 2009 9:53 am Subject: Re: [CREEK-SOUTHEAST] The Significance of Winter Solstice in Creek Town Planning Traditions What every you would like to send Richard I would be pleased to add to the website. Thanks Judy On Sun, Dec 20, 2009 at 4:36 AM, <talliyasoutheast@aol.com> wrote: > > Most Native Americans have heard of the Creek Green Corn Festival or in > Mvskoke, Poskita. Several other tribes hold similar ceremonies at the > Summer > Solstice, but their rituals are not as extensive. It was the Creek New > Year's celebration. The Creek Solar Calendar contained 12 months of 30 days > each. There was also a Lunar Calendar, which seems to have gone back to the > days when our ancestors were hunters and gatherers. To adjust the solar > calendar with the actual cycle of the earth around the sun, 5 1/4 days > composed Poskita. The Keepers of the Day monitored the sun, planets and > stars > from mountain top observatories, and set the days for Poskita. It was > time > when engagements were announced, marriages were held and grudges > forgotten. > Old fires in the domestic hearth were extinguished. Happily married > couples > would walk together to the temple, each carrying one thong attached to a > special Poskita pot. The Keepers of the Fire priests would then give them > coals from a new fire, that had been ignited by the sun, using mirrors and > crystals. With these coals, the couple would renew their marriage vows and > rekindle their hearths. > > With the importance of the Summer Solstice, one would expect that > ancestral Creek towns would be oriented to the east or west where the sun > rose on > the Summer Solstice. This in fact, was the case in the first towns with > mounds, that started developing about 2200 years ago. There was temple > mound, > covering two acres, built at a town on the Etowah River in NW Georgia. It > was constructed and occupied during the exact same period that the Pyramid > of the Sun at Teotihuacan, Mexico was constructed and occupied. Both also > faced the point where the sun rose on the Summer Solstice > > The Apalachees were a Muskogean people concentrated in northern Florida, > who practiced a Mesoamerican type religion of multiple gods and goddesses. > Otherwise, their culture and language were probably almost identical to > their > cousins to the north, the Hitchiti provinces, who practiced monotheism > and ritual baptism. Apalachee towns were oriented to the sunrise and > sunset > on the Summer Solstice. This was even true for the Apalachee towns in > western North Carolina and north central Georgia. That's how the > Appalachian > Mountains got their name! Apparently, either the Apalachee were originally > from these mountains, or else founded a colony in the Hiwassee River > Valley to > secure highland resources. > > I came upon a big surprise, however, when I began analyzing the many large > towns that started developing in Georgia, North Carolina and South Carolina > after 900 AD - in the same manner I analyze more recent cities. They were > NOT oriented to the sunrise on the Summer Solstice. Several > archaeologists, who had gone far enough in their studies of archeological > sites, to look > at the whole town plans, had noticed that the buildings were aligned. One > professor from the University of Georgia even pondered in his book, why > the > largest mounds and plaza at Ocmulgee were aligned to a 25.5 degree angle, > southwest. > > Obviously, these archaeologists had not been Boy Scouts! Modern maps are > oriented to magnetic North. The difference between magnetic north and True > (solar) North differs according to a town's location. At Ocmulgee, the > difference is 6.5 degrees. You add 6.5 degrees to 25.5 degrees and you get > 32 > degrees - the declination of the sunrise and sunset on the Winter Solstice. > Most major temple mounds in Georgia built after 900 AD are oriented to the > sunset on the Winter Solstice! Perhaps, this change in town planning was > the result of a change in religious practices. We really don't know, but > the symbolism is that life begins again after the apparent death throws of > the sun. > > Analysis of the locations of the major towns in Georgia, South Carolina, > western North Carolina and eastern Tennessee absolutely astounded me. ALL > of the major towns with large mounds from the Early and Middle Hierarchal > Period, are precisely located on a triangular matrix formed by True North > and > the angle of the Winter Solstice sunset. The principal temple mounds in > these "mother towns" were five sided. The towns are all located on the > points of Winter Solstice triangles. In fact, I have found several mound > sites > that few people or nobody knew about, merely by using a computer to draw > the > triangular matrix over a USGS map of the lower Southeast. Ocmulgee is on > the same latitude line as Poverty Point, LA, which was community begun > 2100 > years BEFORE Ocmulgee, and on the same longitude line as the Great Serpent > Mound in Ohio, which was constructed about 100 years AFTER Ocmulgee was > begun. > > How all this was done . . . I have not a clue. However, this town > planning tradition reaffirms what we Creeks always have known. Just at > the point > in time when it seems that the Darkness has prevailed, the Light triumphs > and begins the cycle of life again. > > I will be happy to email you the drawings I did of the Ladds Mountain > Observatory for Ancient Roots II: The Etowah River Valley - or perhaps Judy > the > web site mom can post them on her separate web site. > Notes on the Creek Indians > http://www.accessgenealogy.com/native/creeknotes/index.htm > > Early Creek History > http://www.accessgenealogy.com/native/creek/early-history/ > > Migration Legend of the Creek Indians > http://www.accessgenealogy.com/native/creek/migration/ > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > CREEK-SOUTHEAST-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without > the quotes in the subject and the body of the message > -- Native American Genealogy http://www.accessgenealogy.com/native/ AccessGenealogy http://www.accessgenealogy.com/ Notes on the Creek Indians http://www.accessgenealogy.com/native/creeknotes/index.htm Early Creek History http://www.accessgenealogy.com/native/creek/early-history/ Migration Legend of the Creek Indians http://www.accessgenealogy.com/native/creek/migration/ ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to CREEK-SOUTHEAST-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message
Most Native Americans have heard of the Creek Green Corn Festival or in Mvskoke, Poskita. Several other tribes hold similar ceremonies at the Summer Solstice, but their rituals are not as extensive. It was the Creek New Year's celebration. The Creek Solar Calendar contained 12 months of 30 days each. There was also a Lunar Calendar, which seems to have gone back to the days when our ancestors were hunters and gatherers. To adjust the solar calendar with the actual cycle of the earth around the sun, 5 1/4 days composed Poskita. The Keepers of the Day monitored the sun, planets and stars from mountain top observatories, and set the days for Poskita. It was time when engagements were announced, marriages were held and grudges forgotten. Old fires in the domestic hearth were extinguished. Happily married couples would walk together to the temple, each carrying one thong attached to a special Poskita pot. The Keepers of the Fire priests would then give them coals from a new fire, that had been ignited by the sun, using mirrors and crystals. With these coals, the couple would renew their marriage vows and rekindle their hearths. With the importance of the Summer Solstice, one would expect that ancestral Creek towns would be oriented to the east or west where the sun rose on the Summer Solstice. This in fact, was the case in the first towns with mounds, that started developing about 2200 years ago. There was temple mound, covering two acres, built at a town on the Etowah River in NW Georgia. It was constructed and occupied during the exact same period that the Pyramid of the Sun at Teotihuacan, Mexico was constructed and occupied. Both also faced the point where the sun rose on the Summer Solstice The Apalachees were a Muskogean people concentrated in northern Florida, who practiced a Mesoamerican type religion of multiple gods and goddesses. Otherwise, their culture and language were probably almost identical to their cousins to the north, the Hitchiti provinces, who practiced monotheism and ritual baptism. Apalachee towns were oriented to the sunrise and sunset on the Summer Solstice. This was even true for the Apalachee towns in western North Carolina and north central Georgia. That's how the Appalachian Mountains got their name! Apparently, either the Apalachee were originally from these mountains, or else founded a colony in the Hiwassee River Valley to secure highland resources. I came upon a big surprise, however, when I began analyzing the many large towns that started developing in Georgia, North Carolina and South Carolina after 900 AD - in the same manner I analyze more recent cities. They were NOT oriented to the sunrise on the Summer Solstice. Several archaeologists, who had gone far enough in their studies of archeological sites, to look at the whole town plans, had noticed that the buildings were aligned. One professor from the University of Georgia even pondered in his book, why the largest mounds and plaza at Ocmulgee were aligned to a 25.5 degree angle, southwest. Obviously, these archaeologists had not been Boy Scouts! Modern maps are oriented to magnetic North. The difference between magnetic north and True (solar) North differs according to a town's location. At Ocmulgee, the difference is 6.5 degrees. You add 6.5 degrees to 25.5 degrees and you get 32 degrees - the declination of the sunrise and sunset on the Winter Solstice. Most major temple mounds in Georgia built after 900 AD are oriented to the sunset on the Winter Solstice! Perhaps, this change in town planning was the result of a change in religious practices. We really don't know, but the symbolism is that life begins again after the apparent death throws of the sun. Analysis of the locations of the major towns in Georgia, South Carolina, western North Carolina and eastern Tennessee absolutely astounded me. ALL of the major towns with large mounds from the Early and Middle Hierarchal Period, are precisely located on a triangular matrix formed by True North and the angle of the Winter Solstice sunset. The principal temple mounds in these "mother towns" were five sided. The towns are all located on the points of Winter Solstice triangles. In fact, I have found several mound sites that few people or nobody knew about, merely by using a computer to draw the triangular matrix over a USGS map of the lower Southeast. Ocmulgee is on the same latitude line as Poverty Point, LA, which was community begun 2100 years BEFORE Ocmulgee, and on the same longitude line as the Great Serpent Mound in Ohio, which was constructed about 100 years AFTER Ocmulgee was begun. How all this was done . . . I have not a clue. However, this town planning tradition reaffirms what we Creeks always have known. Just at the point in time when it seems that the Darkness has prevailed, the Light triumphs and begins the cycle of life again. I will be happy to email you the drawings I did of the Ladds Mountain Observatory for Ancient Roots II: The Etowah River Valley - or perhaps Judy the web site mom can post them on her separate web site.