This is a Message Board Post that is gatewayed to this mailing list. Classification: Query Message Board URL: http://boards.ancestry.com/mbexec/msg/an/5R.2ADI/150.435.2.1.1.1.3 Message Board Post: I am working with a professor from the U of South AL establishing a documented list of the participants of the battle at Fort Mims on Aug. 30, 1813. The ADAH has a powder horn in their collection that was donated around 1925 with a note that it was carried at Fort Mims by "Old Colbert, a follower of William Weatherford." Colbert is a common Chickasaw name, but there might have been a family connection here since his wife was a Creek. Do you think this could have been William Colbert ? Thanks for any ideas. Sue Moore sbmoore@swbell.net

This is a Message Board Post that is gatewayed to this mailing list. Classification: Query Message Board URL: http://boards.ancestry.com/mbexec/msg/rw/5R.2ADI/940 Message Board Post: Am searching for any knowledge of Mary Self. Daughter of Presley Self and Amy Gunter. Born About 1808 in Tennesee and died in 1865 in Alabama. She was married to John Hopper About 1820. Suspect she may have been Creek Indian.

Sue, I am late in replying to your email about the victims/survivors of Ft. Mims, and I am sending a copy of this mail to the list for their information. The bookFort Mims and The Tensaw Settlement, was compiled by Dess L. Sangster and Tom Sangster for the Fort Mims Restoration Association, Inc. Their address in 1993 was P.O. Box 69, Stockton, Alabama 36579. The book was printed by Levander Publishing, Bay Minette, Alabama. This book, in addition to telling the story of the Massacre, lists the names of people in whose names damages were claimed for the Indian War 1813-1814; names associated with Fort Mims; Sir names of persons making cliams who are not listed in the Passports of Georgia from 1780-1813; known surnames "connected to descendants of only one survivor of the massacre at Fort Mims". I also have another book entitled Massacre at Fort Mims, by Dr. David Pierce Mason. It was copyrighted in 1975, and printed by Greenberry Publishing Company, Mobile, Alabama, This book tells the story of events leading up to the event, but, in the back of the book, it also lists the genealogies of the early settlers of this area begining with the "Sehoy-Tate-Tunstall Connection", and continuing on through generations of their descendants. You should be able to find these books in any good genealogical library in the area if they are no longer in print. I do recall some mentioning a McQueen ancestor, and the book does list the "Mcqeen-Tallassee-Durant-Coppenger-Powell Connection". I hope this information will be of help to you and others in your research. Walt Tarvin

Mike, Have you tried accessgenealogy.com? It is great. Also, olivetreegenealogy.com might offer you a tidbit of info. Lynne P.S. My Creek lines are Durant, McGillivray, Walker (don't know how much) if you run across these in your search.

This is a Message Board Post that is gatewayed to this mailing list. Surnames: Lawson, Petty, Minton. Sumner, Billings Classification: Query Message Board URL: http://boards.ancestry.com/mbexec/msg/an/5R.2ADI/84.125.2.2.1.1 Message Board Post: I am related to Maggie Lee Kitchens b 1872 d 1923 and I can only read the name of her father A.L. Kitchens on her certificate. She was married to Willaim David Minton b 1877 and d 1952 and they lived in Pacolet, SC. They are the parents of my grand mother Altie Lee Minton Petty of Spartanburg,SC. Look forward to hearing from you Mike Lawson JAX,FL

Lynne, Lachlan McGilliavray is well covered in Dr. Marion Elisha Tarvin's article, beginning on page 127. He writes: "Lachlan McGillivray, a scotch boy of sixteen summers, had read of the wonders of America. He ran away from rich parents at Durmaglass, Scotland, and took passage for Charleston, S.C., arriving there safely in 1735". He then goes on to tell about Lachlan's becoming a trader and marrying Sehoy Marchand, and their five children: Sehoy, alexander, Sophia, Jeanette, and Elizabeth. He then covers Alexander's education and his becoming Chief of the Creeks. Lachland's daughter Sehoy II, married Col. Tate, and they had a son David. Two of their daughters, Theresa, and Elizabeth, married Elisha and Elijah Tarvin. On page 130, Dr. Tarvin mentions Alexander McGillivray and his two nephews, David Tate, and Lachland Durant.( You mentioned a Durant Ancestor) He also mentions "Mrs. sophia Durant and her boy Lachland', as being present when Lachland McGillivray set sail for Scotland to avoid prosecution as a loyalist. Other names mentioned are : Elizabeth Tarvin's marriage to William H. Steadham; Marion Elisha Tarvin married Sophia Frances White, whose grandfather was John Coats; Victoria tarvin married Frank Lawson; Louisa, Elizabeth, and Theresa Tate; Louisa Tate married George Tunstall. And there are still a number of other names. I started out to tell you about Lachlan McGillivray and Durant, and got a little caught up in this article which is available to all the list at any library which has the Alabama Historical Quarterly. Walt Tarvin

Margaret, The twenty-five pages I wrote about is an article by Dr. Marion Elisha Tarvin. I do not find the names you mentioned there or in the few pages of Benjamin Hawkins letter I have. I did not try to copy the whole book, but only those pages that referred to John Tarvin. The book of letters is available through the nearest Morman Church, since each one has a library that can get the letters. Dr. Tarvin's article is available through any archive that would carry the Alabama Historical Quarterly. I am sorry I cannot be of more help. Walt Tarvin

We have now provided a search for the Kern Clifton Roll http://www.accessgenealogy.com/native/kernclifton/ You may search by surname or district. Enjoy Judy

This is a Message Board Post that is gatewayed to this mailing list. Surnames: Blunt, Blount, Cook, Thompson, Hyde, Hill, Classification: Query Message Board URL: http://boards.ancestry.com/mbexec/msg/rw/5R.2ADI/816.2.1 Message Board Post: I was married to a William E. Morris who was a Cherokee-Creek. He was born in Nevada Missouri and his father was listed on the Dawes Rolls in Oklahoma. I do not know if this is your line but his mother's name was Dolly Courtney-Morris and his father was also William. I am 70 years old and he died in 1990 at age 65.

This is a Message Board Post that is gatewayed to this mailing list. Surnames: Williams Classification: Query Message Board URL: http://boards.ancestry.com/mbexec/msg/an/5R.2ADI/720.1.2.1.1.1 Message Board Post: Allen after spending two weeks in southwest Georgia and asking some questions from some relatives, my grand mother name before marriage were Mary Jane Broadwater. Some are not certain. Have you come up with anything under this name? E mai me at Wchas88@aol.com if you would like to.

This is a Message Board Post that is gatewayed to this mailing list. Classification: Query Message Board URL: http://boards.ancestry.com/mbexec/msg/an/5R.2ADI/6.73.91.163.168.1.1.2.1 Message Board Post: Do you know if any Colbert of the Creeks was at Fort Mims? Many of the mixed families were inside the fort. Do you know who this Colbert might be? "The ADAH have a powder horn in their collection that was donated around 1925 with a note that it was carried at Fort Mims by "Old Colbert, a follower of William Weatherford." Colbert is a common Chickasaw name, but there might have been a Creek with that name, too." I am working with a professor at the U of South AL to establish a documented list of participants. Thanks for any help.

List, Marcia & Walt: Thanks for all the great books on Indian Traders. I have 3 and maybe 4 Traders in my ancestry: Jean/John Cravatt, Lachlan McGillivray, Benjamin Peter Durant ?, and maybe Louis LeFleur ? Does anyone one out there have any info or leads on who the parents/grandparents are of Captain David Walker, husband of Rachel Durant? Any help appreciated. TIA! Lynne

My great, great grandfather, Arthur C. Bagsby, (white) may have been an Indian Trader in southern Alabama. His wife, my great great grandmother was full blood Creek, her maiden name was Rebecca Davis. Both of them died when my great grandmother, Mollie Bagsby was quite young. Probably in the late 1860s. I don't know where either of them were buried, but one of my cousins who has since died said that Arthur Bagsby was buried in a cemetery north of Mobile. Does anyone know anything about them? Thank you for any information. Sincerely, Elaine McKenzie (oemckenzie@aol.com)

This is a Message Board Post that is gatewayed to this mailing list. Surnames: Toles and Franklin Classification: Query Message Board URL: http://boards.ancestry.com/mbexec/msg/rw/5R.2ADI/939 Message Board Post: If anyone has any information on the Toles or Franklin of Montgomery county, later Jefferson county, AL please contact me, thank you. Marenda

A relative of mine has started a new list for people who are descended from Indian traders. The address is To Join: IndianTraders-subscribe@smartgroups.com

This is a Message Board Post that is gatewayed to this mailing list. Surnames: Jacoups Classification: Query Message Board URL: http://boards.ancestry.com/mbexec/msg/rw/5R.2ADI/938 Message Board Post: Any information On JACOUPS in Alabama. Creek/Catawba Jacoups daughter left with white man named Rhoden when parents went on Trail of Tears with Cherokee. Any information greatly appreciated.

The exchange of information on Indian Traders has been very interesting, and I thank all who have contributed. Here is some additional information: A Sketch of the Creek Country in the years 1798 and 1799, by Benjamin Hawkins (1848), which also contains Letters of Benjamin Hawkins 1796-1806, contains names and some information about numerous Indian Traders who lived in the Creek Nation. Among others, the latter reference lists Coweta Town Traders as: Thomas Marshall, John Tarvin, James Darouzeaux ( probably Devereaux), Harry Read, and Christian Russell. I am particularly interested in John Tarvin, for he may well be my ancestor. Traders leaving from Fort Augusta, Augusta, GA.) on the Savannah River, were required to have a passport from the govenor. In Passports Issued by Govenors of Georgia, 1785 to 1809, there is a good explanation of passports. One listing is: "Augusta, 14th April 1789 John Tarvin, a resident among the Creek Indians, has permission to pass from hence, through this State to the Towns of the said Indians. All Officers of Militia and of Civil appointment, are desired to afford to the said John Tarvin the fullest protection, he demenaning himself well, The under written list of papers made from their respective subscriptions, are also to be permitted to be carried unbroken; together with the packages of Goods. Geo Walton Alexander Mc Gillwray Timothy Barnard ten letters Obidiah Low three letters" There are other Traders listed in this book, and some of the entries list the people/families that went with them. One final reference for you genealogists: Alabama Historical Quarterly Volume Seventeed-1955. This folume contains a twenty page article by Dr Marion Elisha Tarvin, beginning on page 125, entitled, The Muscogees or Creek Indians 1519 to 1893. Dr. Tarvin was the son of Elisha Tarvin, whose father was william Tarvin II, of Baldwin county. The article contains information taken from Pickett's History of Alabama, but it also contains many names of families who lived in South Alabama during the late 1790's and early 1800's. Walt Tarvin

I had an ancestor in Georgia named John McQueen. The only census record I find him on was Sumter County 1840 and he probably died before 1850... but before 1840 I have no idea as to where he was. That was a common name, though... there were a lot of John McQueens scattered about the world. So far as I can imagine, I think that this one was unmixed white, but the more I look into such things the less I would swear to. Of those you named, where could I find more information on McQueen and the Welches who were traders? I have Welch ancestors that I believe had native ancestry... also Mackey, Spier/Spear and Hair/Hare/Haire ancestors that I have suspicions about as to possible Creek connections. My mom's Prevatt ancestors and my dad's grandmother Sarah Spear's first husband's family, the Carters, as I understand it, had mixed ancestry going back to the early 1700s in Virginia. In the whole shooting match, though... so far, at least, I cannot nail down a single specific. The closest I come is with the Carters who are sort of "well known" and one in the specific line of descent was an Indian Agent" for the colony of North Carolina... but I am not descended from the Carters. RW Marcia Lee wrote: > The trade hierarchy: Master Trader - a man with personal experience >of living in Indian country, among Native Americans beyond the line of >British settlement who had enough money and or connections to get large >quantities of the best trade goods. He often had family ties with the >allied Indian nations to insure respect. Examples of Master Traders - >Ludovic Grant, James Beamer, John McQueen, Lachlan McGillivray, Jordan >Roche, George Galphin, Patrick Brown, Alexander Wood, John Rae, William >Sludders, George Cussins, Jeremiah Knott, John Pettigrew, Isaac >Barksdale, Daniel Clark. Many of the last group were members of the >Augusta Company based in Georgia. The other company was the Cherokee >Company of James Beamer, William Hatton, Gregory Haines, Cornelius >Dougherty, & Lachlan McBean. >

Hi again: Heres some answers from the post from yesterday. The books mentioned are all available on interlibrary loan or possibly in most larger libraries. The two articles would have to be interlibrary loaned also. Here is one more book I should have included as its by an expert on Spanish West Florida. Its Indian Traders of the Southeastern Spanish Borderlands - Panton, Leslie & Company and John Forbes & Company, 1783-1847, by William S. Coker, 1986, University Presses of Florida. On the different types of traders, I checked the chapter in Money, Trade, and Power . by Jack Greene listed yesterday & here is a condensed version: Re licenses --- This is in SC but probably applied to GA also - Trade was fist a government monopoly but after 1724 became a mix of public and private. The SC Council acted as a board of Indian affairs. Merchants and traders were licensed by their colony and had to post bond for the good conduct of themselves & their servants. The trade hierarchy: Master Trader - a man with personal experience of living in Indian country, among Native Americans beyond the line of British settlement who had enough money and or connections to get large quantities of the best trade goods. He often had family ties with the allied Indian nations to insure respect. Examples of Master Traders - Ludovic Grant, James Beamer, John McQueen, Lachlan McGillivray, Jordan Roche, George Galphin, Patrick Brown, Alexander Wood, John Rae, William Sludders, George Cussins, Jeremiah Knott, John Pettigrew, Isaac Barksdale, Daniel Clark. Many of the last group were members of the Augusta Company based in Georgia. The other company was the Cherokee Company of James Beamer, William Hatton, Gregory Haines, Cornelius Dougherty, & Lachlan McBean. Middling Traders - Traders without those ties, usually independent. Added to a Master Traders license. Herman Geiger & George Haig were in the Congaree area. Lesser Traders - usually an employee of one of the higher traders. Many of these were of mixed blood. Some of these were William, Edward, & an unnamed Broody or Broadway father & sons who worked for James Beamer. Thomas Welch & his half Chickasaw sons James, Joseph, & Thomas Jr. were all in trade. White Hirelings - Many were indentured servants, some were free servants, They could be packhorsemen, storekeepers. Some names mentioned - Jeremiah Swiney storekeeper in the Lower Creek town of Ocones, also another servant, Jenks, employed by William Clement. Charles Jordan worked at Coweta for Peter Randall or Randon. Creek Mary Musgrove's 2nd husband was her former indentured servant Jacob Matthews. Black and Indian Hirelings - Many were slaves but some were not. They were packhorsemen and interpreters. Free interpreters were not cheap. Indian Sauhoe got 3 pounds a month. John Carrell, Alexander Muckeel, and Daniel Kennard received 10 pounds per month as interpreters. Stephen Forrest was the official interpreter to the Creek nation at 150 pound per year which went to 200 when he needed an assistant because he was illiterate. John Barton also fell into that group. Storekeepers in the Lowcountry - Men and women who received money for entertaining the Indians when they visited either Savannah, Augusta, or Charleston for formal meetings with the authorities. Artisans like tailors, saddlers, gunsmiths, jewelers, etc, Many were widows like Elizabeth Haig Mercier remarried twice but retained the store in the Congarees. Mary Russell, widow of Charles Russell was in the area of present day Columbia, SC. Alexander Petrie made silver jewelry. John Laurens and Benjamin Addison repaired or made saddles. When they applied to the Assembly for payment they did not always get their money. Hope this helps & some names are familiar. Marcie

This is a Message Board Post that is gatewayed to this mailing list. Classification: Query Message Board URL: http://boards.ancestry.com/mbexec/msg/rw/5R.2ADI/54.166.167.1.1.1 Message Board Post: Sorry but I don't have a John Brown who was married to a Molly Brown. My John H. Brown was married prior to your John Brown. Keep trying!!!!