I can't help you with the specifics, but I've been puzzling at some of the same kinds of questions for awhile now... In following one of my lines, I am pretty sure that there was Creek... a Mackey marrying some female relation of Hopoie Micco... one of the resulting branches from female children were ETHridges in Wilkinson County, and they passed down the Hopoie Micco name in their line of the family. Another branch were Ridleys. Some of them are also accounted as Creek descendants, but which ones is unclear and disputed... apparently, in my opinion, according to whether or not particular descendants want to consider themselves Creek. There are facts in dispute, and I don't think anyone has rock-solid answers. My 2-great grandmother was a Ridley so far as I can determine (I have found no absolute proof of that yet... just a marriage record that appears to be her and my 2-great grandfather... but there would seem to be some possibility that there were other folks out there then who we don't know about now, who had the same names). It seems that less is known about her Mackey/Ridley ancestry than some of the rest, as there were marriages of multiple siblings between the two families involved. Her husband, also, was an unknown as to ancestry. Some folks with his surname were part Indian, usually Cherokee, but I can make no definite tie from him to anyone, much less them. I just know that he was born at an odd time in an odd place... Florida in 1821 or slightly before: Spanish Florida. My great grandmother who was the Ridley woman's daughter first married a man of a family well known to be mixed, but apparently the mixture went in every possible way and what all was included in specific cases is not necessarily clear at all. It is considered that the line in question began with a slave in Virginia about 1690... but in 1690 many slaves were INDIANS!!! It wasn't till after the Yamassee Indians almost destroyed the Colony of South Carolina during their uprising in 1715-1716, that the South Carolina government finally clamped down on the predatory enslavement of Indians that had been organized and operated out of Charles Towne for quite some time. This man's ancestors had been Colonial officials, including an Indian Agent and a marshall... so it would seem more likely that his mixture was only Indian, but I can't really say for sure and don't think anyone could. Various things are involved so far as I can see... One is that under the law there was little to no distinction between a person who was part African and a person who was part Indian, though the practical application of the law might not have been the same towards each... especially between about 1820 and 1880 or thereabouts where there was a constantly increasing polarization in things racial going on. But while on one hand a strong appearance of mixture might result in a person appearing in records as a "mulatto", a plainly observable but lesser mixture seems to have generally been overlooked... or at least that's the way I understand it. That first husband of my great grandmother died in NY in 1864 as a Confederate prisoner in a Union POW camp. But in looking at the records of one of his brothers and several of my great grandmothers' brothers in the Confederate Army it appears to me that they held a sort of anomalous position, not quite exactly either fish nor fowl. All were private soldiers in volunteer units... but they tended to be given secondary roles not common to all soldiers... that is to say, one of my great grandmother's brothers was detailed for independent duty as a wagoner. One of her husband's brothers was an artificer in an artillery unit. An artificer was a highly skilled blacksmith... not just a farrrior... that is a blacksmith who primarily shoed horses. Artificers had broader and more general skills... so in his case there was a set of skills involved, but still... there were those entries in his enlistment record: complexion - dark, eyes - black (or often gray, for guys who I think were mixed Indian... but in this case, black), hair - black. As to the wagoner... It is a famous thing about the Confederate Army that most of its wagoners were Black. But they weren't all. I had an uncle who was a driver in Patton's Red Ball Express in W.W.II. Most of the Red Ball Express drivers were Blacks in segregated units... but not all were, and my uncle was one of those exceptions. I never *saw* my great grandmother's brother and I have no idea what he *looked* like... so I can't say for sure. But I have seen a tintype of my great grandmother's daughter by her first marriage and to me she looks both part Indian and part Black. BUT she had at least one blonde headed grandchild... because I've seen his photo, too... and my grandfather, a child of my great grandmother's third marriage... so far as I know his father was White and when I was a kid I had no idea that my grandfather looked a bit peculiar... or that my dad looked a lot like him. It took finding this trail of inuendoes for it all to click as to why my dad had a big hawk's nose, a grayish skin tone, and very little body hair. A fact that he hid from the whole world including me, till, literally, the day he died... was that on about half of his face in spots where beard should have grown... he had no beard. He always told me that it was too "scrufty" to let his beard grow out. He never admitted to anyone that it just plain about half wasn't there. So... my suggestion to you is that you may already know more than a lot of folks in your shoes. Knowing more would be nice, but it may not be possible. The "system" by which matters of mixed race were recorded in those times just doesn't offer much substance for us to extract clear understanding today. Also, the whole subject of White/Indian and Black/Indian mixtures was apparently largely suppressed by virtually all concerned. I think that mixed-race folks were pretty common, but most folks tried to hide it if they had it... and not to see it very plainly even if they didn't. There were some well known cases of public figures... but for the rest, the average folks... they had a kind of anonymnity that included not having to write these things down on pieces of paper. In fact, so long as it happened in Indian Country, until Benjamin Hawkins and a few others started writing down a few scattered bits about it, most of this kind of thing went on in a situation where there were virtually no records of any kind. We cannot manufacture records of these events 200 or more years later. RW susanaldridge2000@yahoo.de wrote: >This is a Message Board Post that is gatewayed to this mailing list. > >Surnames: Aldridge Newkirk >Classification: Query > >Message Board URL: > >http://boards.ancestry.com/mbexec/msg/rw/5R.2ADI/967 > >Message Board Post: > >I wondered if you might have run across might have run across (supposedly Creek or half Creek) Sallie Mae Aldridge b. SC or her son Robert Aldridge born SC ca. 1890 who came to Ga between 1890 and 1910 who may be the one who suddenly appeared in Al after 1920. He told his daughter he had many sisters and brothers, including a Frank (Aldridge?). Or he may really be of a family from Muskogee Co, near Columbus, GA.which I cannot find.. > >I am doing a family tree for my children and have come across the possibility that they have black cousins, or even black heritage. Definitely Indian heritage. > >Below is my info. I have 2 births for Robert Lee Aldridge Oct 5 , 1890 from his daughter and SSN- and Nov. 12 1892 on his gravestone in Bessemer, AL. It is coincidental that last week I had published a partial list of slaves from the wills of the SC and AL Hardys on Gen Forum in case black SC and AL Hardys were looking for their relatives. Now I myself am looking for answers on another branch of the family who may have been slaves. > >I thought it would be so easy to connect with the right line of Aldridges and from there so much research has been done that it would be a piece of cake. > >Not so. I have just come across a 1910 census in GA -Camden Co. Thompkins Dist. (on the GA coast) Robert Aldridge supposedly came from Columbus, GA on the AL border to AL around or before 1920. I say supposedly because he kept his life a secret I think, so whatever he said is unreliable. Anyway here is the story and any help would be appreciated. Some grandchildren heard he shot somebody in the middle of the night and left. Some grandchildren say he deserted 13 children when he left. No one knows the truth. Some grandchildren say he changed the spelling of Aldridge from another spelling. My deceased husband heard the Aldridges ran to the NC mountains in the Civil War to escape the fighting. > >Lorene his daughter claims to know part of the story which I will incorporate below. > >I would like to say that I am not an Aldridge by birth, but my children are. I will also say that although the Aldridges were desperately poor and beset by tragedy, they were the handsomest, tallest group of people I have ever seen and all musically talented and tops in sports. My mother thinks they must, somewhere in their genes, have a very distinguished family. > >I have a lot of difficulty with the Aldridges - in finding documentation -except a few AL ssn s. These Aldridges seem to have threatened to shoot every census-taker in GA and AL and ILL where they worked in the mines. After interviewing one of his last surviving children and getting a possible birth date for him, I still had nothing, despite hours of searching in data banks----till today. Lorene Aldridge had told me her father Robert Aldridge looked Indian in that he was darker skinned and black hair, but blue eyes. He told her he had a half Indian or Indian mother called Sallie Mae (no record of marriage). He never said anything about his father-no name, no description. > >Lorene also told me that he told Lorene that he left 2 children behind in the care of a relative after a wife Phoebe had supposedly died. Lorene Aldridge Freeman also said he came from Columbus,Ga. which is Muskogee Co.- but I find nothing. > >But it could be that I was only looking for "white" families, because today I hit the jackpot when I changed my tactics---- and have finally found a Robert with the correct birth year which Lorene swears by for Robert in Ga. -1890. Only the Co. is wrong. > >In the 1910 GA census, Robert Aldridge is 20 years old living with his brother in Camden Co., Thompkins district-Militia 32. Robert is listed as head of house and his older "brother" is delegated to 2nd place, even though the brother is older. Robert's brother has another name -Henry Newkirk - and is "married " (although there is no woman listed) and is listed as "black." The whole page of the census is black people. Robert Aldridge is listed mixed race and is one of only two of a hundred people in front and behind who is anything but "B" for black. > >Well to be living away from his father makes sense because Robert claimed he hated his father for allegedly beating him bloody all his life, so if it is true ,he must have left home as soon as possible, and to the other side of the state at that. > >Have you ever heard of the term "crossing over?" Mulattos or mixed race people used it when they look white enough to change their identities and start over somewhere else where no one knows them. I ask myself this question for 4 reasons. > >1) Lorene said her father never took them to visit his relations. >2) Lorene said a man across the hallway in a hospital where her brother Seaborn was recovering in Birmingham sent a note thru the nurse saying - "What ever happened to Robert Aldridge from Georgia?" and she was told not to talk to him and they did not reply to the note. >3) There were some Aldridges who working in the same Bakery in Birmingham as Robert's daughter Lorene- and she was told not to associate with them and Lorene could not understand why. >4) when Robert Aldridge supposedly went back to GA ONE time ( years later ) to try to find out what ever happened to his own flesh and blood he had left behind in GA. , he said he came no more than 20 miles from the parents place and would go no further. He asked an old acquaintance Seabourn Callatt about them but no one knew anything and he went back to AL without seeing his parents which he had never seen since leaving all those years before, and Robert never saw again in his lifetime. > >What do you folks think? Maybe in order to "cross over" and disassociate from his black relatives, he wanted to cut all ties and make a better life for himself, which is every man's right, or was he just afraid of the police? > >A possible scenario as follows which I have constructed from the information in the 1910 census. > >Robert Aldridge's father is born in NC around the time of the Civil War. His father has a son by a black or black/Indian woman called Newkirk in NC in 1888. He is called Henry Newkirk and looks black enough to be listed as lack in the 1910 census > >Robert's father moves across the order to SC where his mate Newkirk dies. He takes up with an Indian woman called Sallie Mae and has Robert Lee Aldridge by Sallie Mae in Oct. 1890 in SC, and this SC birth is what was told to the census taker. Robert Lee Aldridge looks mixed race, blue eyes. > >The family supposed then moves to GA. (Maybe it was only Henry newkirk and Robert. who moved to GA.) Between 1900 and 1910 Robert Aldridge moves out of his family house in GA. and moves in with brother Henry who meantime married. They find work in Camden Co. Henry in a store. Robert -odd jobs. In 1910 they are living together in the Camden Co. Ga. census in a black neighborhood. > >Phoebe part Creek Indian or Creek Indian marries somebody and has a daughter before 1910. Between 1910 and 1920 Phoebe Creek Indian "marries" again to Robert Aldridge . Since Robert's own mother is Indian, this is natural for him. They have Jessie and Aline before 1920. Phoebe Creek Indian Aldridge supposedly dies -before 1920. >Robert Aldridge gets a girl pregnant in Muskogee Co. The police in Columbus GA tell him to cross the river to Alabama and don't come back. > >Robert Aldridge leaves the 2 children in care of his step daughter part Indian (or his black brother's kin?), "meandering" (Lorene Aldridge) to Ragland, AL (where , by the way, there are also Arledges- he does not mention them ) never to see them again. Robert Aldridge marries Cora Mewbourn in Ragland, AL in 1921 (at the home of her uncle John Layton who is a preacher). > > He talks about a Frank and other forgotten names to his daughter Lorene. He never sees his family ( who ever they are) again. Is it possible that he has crossed out of the Indian (and black) community in Ga. into white Alabama? Do you know who this Robert Aldridge in 1910 could have been? > > I have to find out who Robert Aldridge's father of is. Is he Mulatto who has a blue eyed parent? Is he white and the Robert's blue eyes come from him? Is he black and the blue eyes come thru Sallie Mae his half Indian mother who had a blue eyed father? Was his name Aldridge? Or was Sallie Mae an Aldridge? > >That is the latest in my search....anybody have any advise on researching this? >susan aldridge > > >==== CREEK-SOUTHEAST Mailing List ==== >To unsubscribe, send to CREEK-SOUTHEAST-L-request@rootsweb.com the one word, UNSUBSCRIBE, in the BODY of the message. If you are subscribed to the digest, send your unsubscrbe message to CREEK-SOUTHEAST-D-request@rootsweb.com > >============================== >To join Ancestry.com and access our 1.2 billion online genealogy records, go to: >http://www.ancestry.com/rd/redir.asp?targetid=571&sourceid=1237 > > > >

This is a Message Board Post that is gatewayed to this mailing list. Classification: Query Message Board URL: http://boards.ancestry.com/mbexec/msg/rw/5R.2ADI/968 Message Board Post: Rachel NAVE, b. Jan. 1860, Indian Territory (now OK). Creek Freedman. Daughter of Snow SELLS and Fannie LEWIS/SELLS, both slaves of John SELLS. Rachel m. Charles NAVE. Am searching for descendants, especially Rachel's family member that worked at NARA in Washington, DC, so the story goes. Preston

Susan, I've read your entire note and realize you have theories. Are you asking for advice if your theories might be correct? or are you hoping someone has the proof? I hate to comment much without knowing what you want. I do want to suggest several things: (1) check into Wilkes co. NC where a group of Aldridge or Eldridges were. I have one in my own line, unproven still. (2) check into the "Melungeon" group of people, who are not really an ethnic group persay, but a group of people with similar background. Some are white/ind. some black/ind., some tri-racial. I believe ALDRIDGE name is among them. (3) There is a man who has researched the mixed people in NC, he tends to claim most had black blood and it's the one flaw I see in his theories, because not all do have Black. He places many early native people in this group, the Catwbas, Lumbee, Melungeons ect. It is still worth finding his site because he has done alot of research on suranmes and ALDRIDGE/ELDRIDGE might be one (contact me if you want help finding the url) (4) you mention another name for Robt. Aldridge, but be careful you aren't grasping at straws. Have you any proof of this 2nd name? What leads you to believe it is a name change? about 'crossing over'. YES, I have heard of it, know for a fact some of my cousins did it. Know many Melungeons did it. Reasons are varied, but think if you could not vote, not send your kids to the schools, could not own land if you remained 'black' or mixed black, and you could move and be white, would you? Would you move on, leave it all behind to better yourself and your kids? Many did. Today we are proud of our racial backgrounds, but back then, such prejudices existed, especially after the Civil War that many escaped the past, trying to establish new beginnings. Not just mixed raced people but some who fought for a side not popular in their neighborhood. Please keep posting what you are looking for. I hope I've been somewhat helpful. Debbie ----- Original Message ----- From: <susanaldridge2000@yahoo.de> To: <CREEK-SOUTHEAST-L@rootsweb.com> Sent: Friday, May 23, 2003 10:28 AM Subject: [CREEK-SOUTHEAST] Crekk Indians with Aldridge names > This is a Message Board Post that is gatewayed to this mailing list. > > Surnames: Aldridge Newkirk > Classification: Query > > Message Board URL: > > http://boards.ancestry.com/mbexec/msg/rw/5R.2ADI/967 > > Message Board Post: > > I wondered if you might have run across might have run across (supposedly Creek or half Creek) Sallie Mae Aldridge b. SC or her son Robert Aldridge born SC ca. 1890 who came to Ga between 1890 and 1910 who may be the one who suddenly appeared in Al after 1920. He told his daughter he had many sisters and brothers, including a Frank (Aldridge?). Or he may really be of a family from Muskogee Co, near Columbus, GA.which I cannot find.. > > I am doing a family tree for my children and have come across the possibility that they have black cousins, or even black heritage. Definitely Indian heritage. > > Below is my info. I have 2 births for Robert Lee Aldridge Oct 5 , 1890 from his daughter and SSN- and Nov. 12 1892 on his gravestone in Bessemer, AL. It is coincidental that last week I had published a partial list of slaves from the wills of the SC and AL Hardys on Gen Forum in case black SC and AL Hardys were looking for their relatives. Now I myself am looking for answers on another branch of the family who may have been slaves. > > I thought it would be so easy to connect with the right line of Aldridges and from there so much research has been done that it would be a piece of cake. > > Not so. I have just come across a 1910 census in GA -Camden Co. Thompkins Dist. (on the GA coast) Robert Aldridge supposedly came from Columbus, GA on the AL border to AL around or before 1920. I say supposedly because he kept his life a secret I think, so whatever he said is unreliable. Anyway here is the story and any help would be appreciated. Some grandchildren heard he shot somebody in the middle of the night and left. Some grandchildren say he deserted 13 children when he left. No one knows the truth. Some grandchildren say he changed the spelling of Aldridge from another spelling. My deceased husband heard the Aldridges ran to the NC mountains in the Civil War to escape the fighting. > > Lorene his daughter claims to know part of the story which I will incorporate below. > > I would like to say that I am not an Aldridge by birth, but my children are. I will also say that although the Aldridges were desperately poor and beset by tragedy, they were the handsomest, tallest group of people I have ever seen and all musically talented and tops in sports. My mother thinks they must, somewhere in their genes, have a very distinguished family. > > I have a lot of difficulty with the Aldridges - in finding documentation -except a few AL ssn s. These Aldridges seem to have threatened to shoot every census-taker in GA and AL and ILL where they worked in the mines. After interviewing one of his last surviving children and getting a possible birth date for him, I still had nothing, despite hours of searching in data banks----till today. Lorene Aldridge had told me her father Robert Aldridge looked Indian in that he was darker skinned and black hair, but blue eyes. He told her he had a half Indian or Indian mother called Sallie Mae (no record of marriage). He never said anything about his father-no name, no description. > > Lorene also told me that he told Lorene that he left 2 children behind in the care of a relative after a wife Phoebe had supposedly died. Lorene Aldridge Freeman also said he came from Columbus,Ga. which is Muskogee Co.- but I find nothing. > > But it could be that I was only looking for "white" families, because today I hit the jackpot when I changed my tactics---- and have finally found a Robert with the correct birth year which Lorene swears by for Robert in Ga. -1890. Only the Co. is wrong. > > In the 1910 GA census, Robert Aldridge is 20 years old living with his brother in Camden Co., Thompkins district-Militia 32. Robert is listed as head of house and his older "brother" is delegated to 2nd place, even though the brother is older. Robert's brother has another name -Henry Newkirk - and is "married " (although there is no woman listed) and is listed as "black." The whole page of the census is black people. Robert Aldridge is listed mixed race and is one of only two of a hundred people in front and behind who is anything but "B" for black. > > Well to be living away from his father makes sense because Robert claimed he hated his father for allegedly beating him bloody all his life, so if it is true ,he must have left home as soon as possible, and to the other side of the state at that. > > Have you ever heard of the term "crossing over?" Mulattos or mixed race people used it when they look white enough to change their identities and start over somewhere else where no one knows them. I ask myself this question for 4 reasons. > > 1) Lorene said her father never took them to visit his relations. > 2) Lorene said a man across the hallway in a hospital where her brother Seaborn was recovering in Birmingham sent a note thru the nurse saying - "What ever happened to Robert Aldridge from Georgia?" and she was told not to talk to him and they did not reply to the note. > 3) There were some Aldridges who working in the same Bakery in Birmingham as Robert's daughter Lorene- and she was told not to associate with them and Lorene could not understand why. > 4) when Robert Aldridge supposedly went back to GA ONE time ( years later ) to try to find out what ever happened to his own flesh and blood he had left behind in GA. , he said he came no more than 20 miles from the parents place and would go no further. He asked an old acquaintance Seabourn Callatt about them but no one knew anything and he went back to AL without seeing his parents which he had never seen since leaving all those years before, and Robert never saw again in his lifetime. > > What do you folks think? Maybe in order to "cross over" and disassociate from his black relatives, he wanted to cut all ties and make a better life for himself, which is every man's right, or was he just afraid of the police? > > A possible scenario as follows which I have constructed from the information in the 1910 census. > > Robert Aldridge's father is born in NC around the time of the Civil War. His father has a son by a black or black/Indian woman called Newkirk in NC in 1888. He is called Henry Newkirk and looks black enough to be listed as lack in the 1910 census > > Robert's father moves across the order to SC where his mate Newkirk dies. He takes up with an Indian woman called Sallie Mae and has Robert Lee Aldridge by Sallie Mae in Oct. 1890 in SC, and this SC birth is what was told to the census taker. Robert Lee Aldridge looks mixed race, blue eyes. > > The family supposed then moves to GA. (Maybe it was only Henry newkirk and Robert. who moved to GA.) Between 1900 and 1910 Robert Aldridge moves out of his family house in GA. and moves in with brother Henry who meantime married. They find work in Camden Co. Henry in a store. Robert -odd jobs. In 1910 they are living together in the Camden Co. Ga. census in a black neighborhood. > > Phoebe part Creek Indian or Creek Indian marries somebody and has a daughter before 1910. Between 1910 and 1920 Phoebe Creek Indian "marries" again to Robert Aldridge . Since Robert's own mother is Indian, this is natural for him. They have Jessie and Aline before 1920. Phoebe Creek Indian Aldridge supposedly dies -before 1920. > Robert Aldridge gets a girl pregnant in Muskogee Co. The police in Columbus GA tell him to cross the river to Alabama and don't come back. > > Robert Aldridge leaves the 2 children in care of his step daughter part Indian (or his black brother's kin?), "meandering" (Lorene Aldridge) to Ragland, AL (where , by the way, there are also Arledges- he does not mention them ) never to see them again. Robert Aldridge marries Cora Mewbourn in Ragland, AL in 1921 (at the home of her uncle John Layton who is a preacher). > > He talks about a Frank and other forgotten names to his daughter Lorene. He never sees his family ( who ever they are) again. Is it possible that he has crossed out of the Indian (and black) community in Ga. into white Alabama? Do you know who this Robert Aldridge in 1910 could have been? > > I have to find out who Robert Aldridge's father of is. Is he Mulatto who has a blue eyed parent? Is he white and the Robert's blue eyes come from him? Is he black and the blue eyes come thru Sallie Mae his half Indian mother who had a blue eyed father? Was his name Aldridge? Or was Sallie Mae an Aldridge? > > That is the latest in my search....anybody have any advise on researching this? > susan aldridge > > > ==== CREEK-SOUTHEAST Mailing List ==== > To unsubscribe, send to CREEK-SOUTHEAST-L-request@rootsweb.com the one word, UNSUBSCRIBE, in the BODY of the message. If you are subscribed to the digest, send your unsubscrbe message to CREEK-SOUTHEAST-D-request@rootsweb.com > > ============================== > To join Ancestry.com and access our 1.2 billion online genealogy records, go to: > http://www.ancestry.com/rd/redir.asp?targetid=571&sourceid=1237 >

This is a Message Board Post that is gatewayed to this mailing list. Surnames: Aldridge Newkirk Classification: Query Message Board URL: http://boards.ancestry.com/mbexec/msg/rw/5R.2ADI/967 Message Board Post: I wondered if you might have run across might have run across (supposedly Creek or half Creek) Sallie Mae Aldridge b. SC or her son Robert Aldridge born SC ca. 1890 who came to Ga between 1890 and 1910 who may be the one who suddenly appeared in Al after 1920. He told his daughter he had many sisters and brothers, including a Frank (Aldridge?). Or he may really be of a family from Muskogee Co, near Columbus, GA.which I cannot find.. I am doing a family tree for my children and have come across the possibility that they have black cousins, or even black heritage. Definitely Indian heritage. Below is my info. I have 2 births for Robert Lee Aldridge Oct 5 , 1890 from his daughter and SSN- and Nov. 12 1892 on his gravestone in Bessemer, AL. It is coincidental that last week I had published a partial list of slaves from the wills of the SC and AL Hardys on Gen Forum in case black SC and AL Hardys were looking for their relatives. Now I myself am looking for answers on another branch of the family who may have been slaves. I thought it would be so easy to connect with the right line of Aldridges and from there so much research has been done that it would be a piece of cake. Not so. I have just come across a 1910 census in GA -Camden Co. Thompkins Dist. (on the GA coast) Robert Aldridge supposedly came from Columbus, GA on the AL border to AL around or before 1920. I say supposedly because he kept his life a secret I think, so whatever he said is unreliable. Anyway here is the story and any help would be appreciated. Some grandchildren heard he shot somebody in the middle of the night and left. Some grandchildren say he deserted 13 children when he left. No one knows the truth. Some grandchildren say he changed the spelling of Aldridge from another spelling. My deceased husband heard the Aldridges ran to the NC mountains in the Civil War to escape the fighting. Lorene his daughter claims to know part of the story which I will incorporate below. I would like to say that I am not an Aldridge by birth, but my children are. I will also say that although the Aldridges were desperately poor and beset by tragedy, they were the handsomest, tallest group of people I have ever seen and all musically talented and tops in sports. My mother thinks they must, somewhere in their genes, have a very distinguished family. I have a lot of difficulty with the Aldridges - in finding documentation -except a few AL ssn s. These Aldridges seem to have threatened to shoot every census-taker in GA and AL and ILL where they worked in the mines. After interviewing one of his last surviving children and getting a possible birth date for him, I still had nothing, despite hours of searching in data banks----till today. Lorene Aldridge had told me her father Robert Aldridge looked Indian in that he was darker skinned and black hair, but blue eyes. He told her he had a half Indian or Indian mother called Sallie Mae (no record of marriage). He never said anything about his father-no name, no description. Lorene also told me that he told Lorene that he left 2 children behind in the care of a relative after a wife Phoebe had supposedly died. Lorene Aldridge Freeman also said he came from Columbus,Ga. which is Muskogee Co.- but I find nothing. But it could be that I was only looking for "white" families, because today I hit the jackpot when I changed my tactics---- and have finally found a Robert with the correct birth year which Lorene swears by for Robert in Ga. -1890. Only the Co. is wrong. In the 1910 GA census, Robert Aldridge is 20 years old living with his brother in Camden Co., Thompkins district-Militia 32. Robert is listed as head of house and his older "brother" is delegated to 2nd place, even though the brother is older. Robert's brother has another name -Henry Newkirk - and is "married " (although there is no woman listed) and is listed as "black." The whole page of the census is black people. Robert Aldridge is listed mixed race and is one of only two of a hundred people in front and behind who is anything but "B" for black. Well to be living away from his father makes sense because Robert claimed he hated his father for allegedly beating him bloody all his life, so if it is true ,he must have left home as soon as possible, and to the other side of the state at that. Have you ever heard of the term "crossing over?" Mulattos or mixed race people used it when they look white enough to change their identities and start over somewhere else where no one knows them. I ask myself this question for 4 reasons. 1) Lorene said her father never took them to visit his relations. 2) Lorene said a man across the hallway in a hospital where her brother Seaborn was recovering in Birmingham sent a note thru the nurse saying - "What ever happened to Robert Aldridge from Georgia?" and she was told not to talk to him and they did not reply to the note. 3) There were some Aldridges who working in the same Bakery in Birmingham as Robert's daughter Lorene- and she was told not to associate with them and Lorene could not understand why. 4) when Robert Aldridge supposedly went back to GA ONE time ( years later ) to try to find out what ever happened to his own flesh and blood he had left behind in GA. , he said he came no more than 20 miles from the parents place and would go no further. He asked an old acquaintance Seabourn Callatt about them but no one knew anything and he went back to AL without seeing his parents which he had never seen since leaving all those years before, and Robert never saw again in his lifetime. What do you folks think? Maybe in order to "cross over" and disassociate from his black relatives, he wanted to cut all ties and make a better life for himself, which is every man's right, or was he just afraid of the police? A possible scenario as follows which I have constructed from the information in the 1910 census. Robert Aldridge's father is born in NC around the time of the Civil War. His father has a son by a black or black/Indian woman called Newkirk in NC in 1888. He is called Henry Newkirk and looks black enough to be listed as lack in the 1910 census Robert's father moves across the order to SC where his mate Newkirk dies. He takes up with an Indian woman called Sallie Mae and has Robert Lee Aldridge by Sallie Mae in Oct. 1890 in SC, and this SC birth is what was told to the census taker. Robert Lee Aldridge looks mixed race, blue eyes. The family supposed then moves to GA. (Maybe it was only Henry newkirk and Robert. who moved to GA.) Between 1900 and 1910 Robert Aldridge moves out of his family house in GA. and moves in with brother Henry who meantime married. They find work in Camden Co. Henry in a store. Robert -odd jobs. In 1910 they are living together in the Camden Co. Ga. census in a black neighborhood. Phoebe part Creek Indian or Creek Indian marries somebody and has a daughter before 1910. Between 1910 and 1920 Phoebe Creek Indian "marries" again to Robert Aldridge . Since Robert's own mother is Indian, this is natural for him. They have Jessie and Aline before 1920. Phoebe Creek Indian Aldridge supposedly dies -before 1920. Robert Aldridge gets a girl pregnant in Muskogee Co. The police in Columbus GA tell him to cross the river to Alabama and don't come back. Robert Aldridge leaves the 2 children in care of his step daughter part Indian (or his black brother's kin?), "meandering" (Lorene Aldridge) to Ragland, AL (where , by the way, there are also Arledges- he does not mention them ) never to see them again. Robert Aldridge marries Cora Mewbourn in Ragland, AL in 1921 (at the home of her uncle John Layton who is a preacher). He talks about a Frank and other forgotten names to his daughter Lorene. He never sees his family ( who ever they are) again. Is it possible that he has crossed out of the Indian (and black) community in Ga. into white Alabama? Do you know who this Robert Aldridge in 1910 could have been? I have to find out who Robert Aldridge's father of is. Is he Mulatto who has a blue eyed parent? Is he white and the Robert's blue eyes come from him? Is he black and the blue eyes come thru Sallie Mae his half Indian mother who had a blue eyed father? Was his name Aldridge? Or was Sallie Mae an Aldridge? That is the latest in my search....anybody have any advise on researching this? susan aldridge

I am beginning my study of an ancestor who was a Creek Indian trader . He was married , possibly to a Creek Indian, and therefore descendants would be part Creek Indian. He is listed as a trader in the "Letters of Benjamin Hawkins" Vol IX 1796-1806 p. 168 and p. 195 , as being in the nation 40 years from Tuckabatchee. His name was Christopher Heckel , spelled Heickle in this volume. He was born abt 1742 in Germany, arrived Ebenezer in 1752, and if in the Creek nation for 40 years, would have left Ebenezer about 1756. He would have been an old man by the time of the Creek War in 1812/13. Can someone tell me where I might begin looking for records for this man and his family? The above reference is the only one so far that we have found about him and I don't have a clue where to begin to find records confirming that he was a trader and lived in the nation for that long period of time. What about census records for 1790 and 1800/1810 in AL? Would he be listed with the Indian lists or in a county enumeration for Tuckabatchee? I really need some direction here to get started. Thanks for whatever advice this list may have to offer. Dar at dhackle@ix.netcom.com

This is a Message Board Post that is gatewayed to this mailing list. Surnames: Prichard, Pitt, McElroy Classification: Query Message Board URL: http://boards.ancestry.com/mbexec/msg/an/5R.2ADI/41.155.265.1.1 Message Board Post: I am search McElroy, Camac, and I have been told that the Prichards are realted to mcElroy's.My grandmother was Native american, Creek, form Mississippi or Alabama, my grandfather was Brown McElroys.I have seen on the inernet that McElroy is also a Native American name.my grandfather was married in Lauderdale county, Mississippi in 1880 to Liza Camac, Cammack, so many variations.thank's.

This is a Message Board Post that is gatewayed to this mailing list. Classification: Query Message Board URL: http://boards.ancestry.com/mbexec/msg/rw/5R.2ADI/952.1.1 Message Board Post: I'm interested in the Flowers family that you mentioned and would like any information you have on them. My GGrandfather was Wright Flowers of Alabama.

This is a Message Board Post that is gatewayed to this mailing list. Surnames: mincy amos brown carpenter davis fairer flowers griffin west williams Classification: Query Message Board URL: http://boards.ancestry.com/mbexec/msg/rw/5R.2ADI/952.1 Message Board Post: hello what part of pike co,al was your mincy from also who was susie parents or brothers and sisters and what is her race.. i have mincy's roots in pike co and coffee co

This is a Message Board Post that is gatewayed to this mailing list. Classification: Query Message Board URL: http://boards.ancestry.com/mbexec/msg/an/5R.2ADI/865.1.2 Message Board Post: The McCains I am related to have Indian. They also spoke of another Language.

I don't know how common the Lytle name is so I have no idea if this may be of any use to you. My 2-great uncle John A. Spear married a Lettie J. Lytle in Thomas County, Georgia, on 17 March 1867. I believe that John A. Spear would have been 1/4 Creek on his mother's side, and I'm not certain... but I suspect Indian ancestry of some sort in his father, Allen Spear, as well. Of the Lytles, I have no information as to Indian ancestry, but in those days those who had it tended to stick together in their socializing and marriages. Griffin is a very common name in those parts. But what you really need to do is to find your grandparents in census records. That should give you a good idea where they AND their parents were born, though it is very possible that they grew up at points usually further south or west than wherever they were born. Sometimes those travels are reflected in the birthplaces of children, which are also shown in censuses taken 1850 and after if I recall correctly. Another source worth attempting to find, is your grandparents' death certificates. The state and/or county where they died should have them on file, starting at different dates in different states, but probably in most states by the 1920s. The contents of death certificates and of census records as well, may not be absolutely accurate, but they ae a lot closer to accurate than nothing. <G> There is also a problem, in my experience, that early death certificates often were very incompletely filled out, and the unfilled blanks are where the information you are seeking should be... but isn't. Death certificates are filed where one dies, which is not necessarily where they are buried. If you can't find a birth certificate you can use the date on their grave stones to know where to search in local newspaper morgues. Obituaries were scarcer and less informative back in the 1920s and before, but if you can find one it usually names the place of death. Try those things till you hit paydirt, and then keep looking. Various records may state slightly different facts. Once census may say one thing, and another 10 or 20 years later, might say another thing altogether. If you cover all possible bases you may know quite a bit more than from looking till you find one record, and stopping at that point. Good luck. Happy hunting... RW skynet@redriverok.com wrote: >This is a Message Board Post that is gatewayed to this mailing list. > >Surnames: Griffin / Lytle >Classification: Query > >Message Board URL: > >http://boards.ancestry.com/mbexec/msg/an/5R.2ADI/84.125.3.1 > >Message Board Post: > >I am looking for Washington Andrew Griffin that married Angeline Lytle that is now buried in Forrest City AR, Angeline is buried in De Valls Bluff AR they are my great grandparents and no one can tell me anything about them do you have any information on where he came form or where I can find any help on them???? > >

This is a Message Board Post that is gatewayed to this mailing list. Classification: Query Message Board URL: http://boards.ancestry.com/mbexec/msg/rw/5R.2ADI/613.1.1 Message Board Post: i have found the marriage record of my gggrandparents, george w. darden and lucinda ward in 1855 in chambers co. ala , could lucinda ward be a decendant of john ward , the indian countryman that joan case speakes of in carol middletons among the creeks . .

This is a Message Board Post that is gatewayed to this mailing list. Classification: Query Message Board URL: http://boards.ancestry.com/mbexec/msg/rw/5R.2ADI/583.585.1 Message Board Post: Louisa Canard and Tulsa Fixico were married in Alabama. They had a son named Motey Tiger Chief of the Creek nation 1907=1917

The following individuals are thought to be of native heritage in my family...Is anyone researching these lines? William Jenkins 1785 SC 1849 Harlan KY >+Elizabeth Roark 1785 SC >1860 Harlan KY< Chrissy Jenkins >+Henry Smith b. TN Nancy Smith >(William) Allen Sergent 1844 Harlan KY d. 1910 Silas Wilson Sergent 1877 Harlan KY 1961 Ephraim Sergent 1800 NC d. 1871 KY >+Deborah Bird/Byrd b. 1800 NC d. 1865< Allen Sergent b. 1844 Harlan d. 1910 Harlan Zachariah B. Morgan 1770 SC d. 1841 Clay Co Ky >+Mary Polly Holt 1778 SC d. 1855< Christina Morgan 1811 Clay Co Ky d. 1902 KY >+David Sergent 1809 NC d. 1898 KY< Elizabeth Sergent 1829 Ky d. 1900 Ky >+John Hensley b. 1827 NC d. 1890 Ky< Allen Hensley b. 1850 Letcher Co KY Sarah Rebecca Lewis 1845 d. 1917 Ky Susannah Hensley 1875 d. 1943 KY >Gabriel Jones d. 1830 Harlan Ky< +Mary______ d. 1851 Hiram Jones b. 1801 d. 1889 Rachel Ely b. 1806 d. 1881 Emily Jones b. 1833 d. 1897 Harlan Ky +Allen Sergent b. 1829 d. 1849 Harlan Ky >Ervin (Irvin) Allen b. 1827 Yancey Co Nc< >+Ludea/Lydia/Ludie Barrett b. 1829 TN d. 1853 Ky Lucinda Allen b. 1856 Clay Co Ky >+(1) "Black George" Frazier/Frasier b. ca 1856 d. 1955 KY (2) J.R. Martin Clay Co Ky Ollie G. Frazier/Frazier b. 1878 Clay Co Ky + (1) Amerida Combs b. 1877 Clay Co Ky Howell C. Brewer b. 1790 Hancock Co TN >+(1)Mary Louisa "Little Deer" Short b. 1790 d. 1834< Howell P. Brewer b. 1826 TN d. 1872 Laurel co Ky >+Elizabeth Barger d. 1892 Laurel Co Ky >Abraham Barger d.1890< >+Mary Polly Barger d. 1880< >Jesse Bolling/Bollin/Bowling b. 1758 VA< +Mary Pennington b. d. 1815

According to William A. Read in "Indian Place Names in Alabama" (ISBN 0-8173-0231-X), it was the name of a town on the creek of the same name in Talladega County that was an Upper Creek settlement. The creek was a tributary to Choccolocco Creek. The name is from the Creek. It means "people's dwelling place", from isti (people) and apoga (dwelling place). Elisabeth ----- Original Message ----- From: "Carolyn Funderburk" <bamagal50@ec.rr.com> To: <CREEK-SOUTHEAST-D@rootsweb.com> Sent: Friday, May 09, 2003 11:01 PM Subject: Istapoga-Eastaboga > On an old Alabama map found in a book printed l919, I saw an Indian village > close to where I grew up in Oxford. The name was "Istapoga"--and as soon > as I saw it I said "Eastaboga!". I have never got any kind of answer of > what "Eastaboga" meant, not when I was growing up in Oxford and not now as > an adult as I study about Indians in the Southeast. > > Can anyone verify that Istapoga is the same as Eastaboga, what does it > mean, and is it a Creek name? > > Any help is so appreciated. Thanks. > > Carolyn Funderburk > bamagal50@ec.rr.com > > ______________________________

Frances, I hope you will not be offended in my saying what I know about your family names. Perhaps you know this already. Sizemore is probably a Sephardic Jewish name--originally "Cismor", a Spanish surname. Your George Sizemore who was married to Aggie Shepherd--"Shepherd" is related to the word "Sephardic". I believe the surname BROCK (Aaron)-the English name of Chief Red Bird and the son of Reuben Brock--is Dutch. Some believe that Jewish traders/peddlars played quite an active role in the early exploration/settlement of the Deep South and Appalachia in the l700s and l800s. If I have presumed too much, please forgive me. A fellow researcher. Carolyn Funderburk bamagal50@ec.rr.com

On an old Alabama map found in a book printed l919, I saw an Indian village close to where I grew up in Oxford. The name was "Istapoga"--and as soon as I saw it I said "Eastaboga!". I have never got any kind of answer of what "Eastaboga" meant, not when I was growing up in Oxford and not now as an adult as I study about Indians in the Southeast. Can anyone verify that Istapoga is the same as Eastaboga, what does it mean, and is it a Creek name? Any help is so appreciated. Thanks. Carolyn Funderburk bamagal50@ec.rr.com

Thank you so much. I'll have to follow up on this. It is the first hint of Indian blood. Wolf Sister, Doris

This is a Message Board Post that is gatewayed to this mailing list. Surnames: Smith Classification: Query Message Board URL: http://boards.ancestry.com/mbexec/msg/rw/5R.2ADI/964 Message Board Post: Can any one tell me what this meens.I got this info. on my grand father, William Smith Of Calais Maine married Hannah Nutter. Under that entry is a Soloman Basley on the same date who also married Hannah Nutter. Under deaths William R. Smith died April 26,1849 son of 12 John and Hannah. Could 12 John be his Indian name. Did he also go by the name of Soloman Basley? Can any one tell me what this meens. Thank You.

Frances, I decided to check on this myself, and found that yes, this is the line that md. into CALLAHAN. Do you know anything about that Callahan line? I am a Callahan descendant, with some very suspicious pedigree. Thanks, Debbie ----- Original Message ----- From: <frances542002@yahoo.com> To: <CREEK-SOUTHEAST-L@rootsweb.com> Sent: Thursday, May 08, 2003 3:26 PM Subject: [CREEK-SOUTHEAST] Re: Chief Red Bird / Sizemore's in KY This is a Message Board Post that is gatewayed to this mailing list. Classification: Query Message Board URL: http://boards.ancestry.com/mbexec/msg/rw/5R.2ADI/150.156.538.2 Message Board Post: hi I am related the Chief Red Bird he is my 8th uncle. His real name is Aaron brock and was Ruben brock. Aaron brocks son I have a picture Russell he was a full blooded indian. John Sizemore is my 8th cousin. Roda is my 8th aunt. George all sizemore is my 8th grandfather and he was married to aggi shepherd. Roda and George all Sizemore has been in court battles to claim there indian rights. I am trying to find out if they are in one of the rolls listed on the cherokee tribes. What kind of information do you need on John Sizemore. Jimmy you need to make sure you have the right John because I have plenty information on the Sizemore family how can I mail it to you. I would e-mail but there is to much. Jimmy I want to know a bout you. I have a cousin Jimmy Sizemore. His mom is Mallie Marget Sizemore. I will closefor now write back soon because I believe we are cousin my dad is james sizemore. Dad is from kentucky .His mom and dad are Felix sizemore and Martha Jane lewis Siz! emore. Frances Crawford. ==== CREEK-SOUTHEAST Mailing List ==== To unsubscribe, send to CREEK-SOUTHEAST-L-request@rootsweb.com the one word, UNSUBSCRIBE, in the BODY of the message. If you are subscribed to the digest, send your unsubscrbe message to CREEK-SOUTHEAST-D-request@rootsweb.com ============================== To join Ancestry.com and access our 1.2 billion online genealogy records, go to: http://www.ancestry.com/rd/redir.asp?targetid=571&sourceid=1237 --- Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free. Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com). Version: 6.0.476 / Virus Database: 273 - Release Date: 04/25/2003

Frances, is this the same Aaron BROCK whose family is related to CALLAHAN? I think they passed through Wash Co. TN at one point. My interest is in the CALLAHAN connection. Debbie ----- Original Message ----- From: <frances542002@yahoo.com> To: <CREEK-SOUTHEAST-L@rootsweb.com> Sent: Thursday, May 08, 2003 3:26 PM Subject: [CREEK-SOUTHEAST] Re: Chief Red Bird / Sizemore's in KY This is a Message Board Post that is gatewayed to this mailing list. Classification: Query Message Board URL: http://boards.ancestry.com/mbexec/msg/rw/5R.2ADI/150.156.538.2 Message Board Post: hi I am related the Chief Red Bird he is my 8th uncle. His real name is Aaron brock and was Ruben brock. Aaron brocks son I have a picture Russell he was a full blooded indian. John Sizemore is my 8th cousin. Roda is my 8th aunt. George all sizemore is my 8th grandfather and he was married to aggi shepherd. Roda and George all Sizemore has been in court battles to claim there indian rights. I am trying to find out if they are in one of the rolls listed on the cherokee tribes. What kind of information do you need on John Sizemore. Jimmy you need to make sure you have the right John because I have plenty information on the Sizemore family how can I mail it to you. I would e-mail but there is to much. Jimmy I want to know a bout you. I have a cousin Jimmy Sizemore. His mom is Mallie Marget Sizemore. I will closefor now write back soon because I believe we are cousin my dad is james sizemore. Dad is from kentucky .His mom and dad are Felix sizemore and Martha Jane lewis Siz! emore. Frances Crawford. ==== CREEK-SOUTHEAST Mailing List ==== To unsubscribe, send to CREEK-SOUTHEAST-L-request@rootsweb.com the one word, UNSUBSCRIBE, in the BODY of the message. If you are subscribed to the digest, send your unsubscrbe message to CREEK-SOUTHEAST-D-request@rootsweb.com ============================== To join Ancestry.com and access our 1.2 billion online genealogy records, go to: http://www.ancestry.com/rd/redir.asp?targetid=571&sourceid=1237 --- Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free. Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com). Version: 6.0.476 / Virus Database: 273 - Release Date: 04/25/2003