In a message dated 1/30/2005 9:01:00 P.M. Eastern Standard Time, CREEK-SOUTHEAST-D-request@rootsweb.com writes: Content-Type: text/plain Judy, Before you get your ulcers stirred up you need to remember what genecology is all about. Finding your family no matter how insulted you may be by what you find. Surname searches may be of no value at all if you recall, that surname only started being used around the 11th or 12th century. with the need to search for peoples that have similar surname i.e. Duke, Dukes.Duc none of which may be related to the other. Info about physical inherited features may be the only way. Since you are Web mom for the Creek Southeast list I would think the list members would take any help they can get. I am grateful to Carolyn Funderburk <bamagal50@ec.rr.com for shearing he info with the rest of us who are look for the light of the end of the tunnel. I think you owe her an apology and a word of thanks for her contribution. Thanks for your time , Duke

In a message dated 1/30/2005 9:01:00 P.M. Eastern Standard Time, CREEK-SOUTHEAST-D-request@rootsweb.com writes: Content-Type: text/plain Judy, Before you get your ulcers stirred up you need to remember what genecology is all about. Finding your family no matter how insulted you may be by what you find. Surname searches may be of no value at all if you recall, that surname only started being used around the 11th or 12th century. with the need to search for peoples that have similar surname i.e. Duke, Dukes.Duc none of which may be related to the other. Info about physical inherited features may be the only way. Since you are Web mom for the Creek Southeast list I would think the list members would take any help they can get. I am grateful to Carolyn Funderburk <bamagal50@ec.rr.com for shearing he info with the rest of us who are look for the light of the end of the tunnel. I think you owe her an apology and a word of thanks for her contribution. Thanks for your time , Duke

To GHARDAGE, and the list: I hope I haven't overstepped the rules and common courtesy by replying to the list regarding the Creek/Anatolian knot. I was asked if I could explain the Creek/Anatolian knot. I am NO expert, but have studied Indian and Melungeon peoples for about l0 years. I believe that there are certain common characteristics in both groups. Melungeons are mixed-race people which includes Indian blood along with white, black, Gypsy, Sephardic Jews, etc. The Melungeons were/are found in Appalachia and through time, some descendants moved into the Southern foothills and elsewhere. I think that many people in the South have Indian and/or Melungeon ancestry, with most having no idea of their backgrounds. I have transcribed verbatim the following information from Nancy Sparks Morrison. She is host of the Melungeon Topica site, and also has references to several other noteworthy sites listed below. I give credit solely to Nancy, not me. www.geocities.com/mikenassau/definition.htm www.sparksgenealogy.com/melungeon.html www.melungeonhealth.org/info.html I apologize for the blank picture showing shovel teeth, but it would not print. Refer to the last site above and it will show you the correct picture. Shovel teeth are just that--flat on the front like the back of a shovel, with a deep curve like a spoon on the backside. The last several paragraphs point out similarities between Melungeons and Turkish (Anatolian) people. Again, I hope I have not offended anyone. Thank you. Carolyn Funderburk bamagal50@ec.rr.com MELUNGEON PHYSICAL CHARACTERISTICS: There are some physiological characteristics which are called ethnic markers, that seem to be passed on through the lines of some Melungeon descendants. There is a bump on the back of the HEAD of SOME descendants, that is located at mid-line, just ABOVE the juncture with the neck. It is about the size and shape of half a golf ball or smaller. This is called an ANATOLIAN BUMP, and indicates ancestry from the Anatolian region of Turkey. If you cannot find the bump, check to see if you, like some descendants, including myself, have a ridge, located at the base of the head where it joins the neck, rather than the Anatolian bump. This ridge is an enlargement of the base of the skull, which is called a Central Asian Cranial Ridge. My ridge is quite noticeable. It is larger than anyone else's that I have felt, except my father's. I can lay one finger under it and the ridge is as deep as my finger is thick. Other ridges are smaller. To find a ridge, place your hand at the base of your neck where it joins your shoulders, and on the center line of your spine. Run your fingers straight up your neck toward your head. If you have a ridge, it will stop your fingers from going on up and across your head. ONLY people who live/d in the Anatolian region of Turkey or Central Asia also have this "bump/ridge. " See the following diagram for the site of both the ridge and bump. Back of Head \lllllllllllllllllllllllll/ ears ( ___x___ ) ears x marks the bump's location \valley / the ridge is the line __ shown \ / neck / \__shoulders There is also a ridge on the back of the first four teeth - two front teeth and the ones on either side (upper and lower) of some descendants. If you place your fingernail at the gum line and gently draw (up or down) you can feel it and it makes a slight clicking sound. The back of the teeth also curve outward rather than straight as the descendants of anglo-saxon parentage do. Teeth like these are called Asian Shovel Teeth. Many Indian descendants also have this type of teeth. The back of the first four teeth of Northern European descendants are straight and flat. An example of northern European teeth would be similar to this diagram: [ \l ] Shovel teeth look like this diagram. Back of teeth [ )/ ] front of teeth, straight 10f7119f.jpg SOME Melungeon descendants have what is called an Asian eyefold. This is rather difficult to describe. At the inner corner of the eye, the upper lid attaches slightly lower than the lower lid. That is to say that, it overlaps the bottom lid. If you place your finger just under the inner corner of the eye and gently pull down, a wrinkle will form which makes the fold more visible. Some people call these eyes, "sleepy eyes, dreamy eyes, bedroom eyes." Many Indian descendants also have these kinds of eyes. nose < 0 > ^ place your finger here and draw down gently Some families may have members with fairly dark skin who suffer with vitiligo, a loss of pigmentation, leaving the skin blotched with white patches. Some descendants have had six fingers or toes. There is a family of people in Turkey whose surname translated into English is "Six Fingered Ones." The term for that in Turkiq is "AltI parmak." (pronounced "altah-par-mock) "AltI" ends with the undotted Turkish "i" which is pronounced as "uh." There is a region near Efes (Ephesus) called "AltI Parmak" - many of the people there have historically had six fingers. Some families have even taken the last name of "AltIparmak." If your family has an Indian Grandmother(father) `myth' which you have been unable to prove, an adoption story that is unprovable, or an orphan myth, and they have been hard to trace and they lived in NC, TN, KY, VA, WV areas in the early migration years or if they seem to have moved back and forth in these areas and if they share any of the mentioned surnames and characteristics, you MAY find a connection here. Some descendants do not show the physical characteristics and of course, there are many people with the surnames who are not connected to this group.

Before this discussion goes any further, it is time to stop. The list is for Genealogy. I do not have another list you can take this to, but you might check on Yahoo to see if there is a list. Judy List Mom >>Subject: Re: [CREEK-SOUTHEAST] The Creek/Anatolian Knot

Carolyn: I for one am not at all offended. I was aware of the the teeth thing. I always thought that it was common to everyone until I took an Anthro class in college many years ago and found out that was one of the ways of identifying american natives. I was unaware of the knot. I knew I had something strange (besides all of the obvious things) about my head but again I thought that everyone had one. I went and felt around on my wife's head and she didn't! But then she is of German ancestry. Thanks! Jerry ----- Original Message ----- From: "Carolyn Funderburk" <bamagal50@ec.rr.com> To: <CREEK-SOUTHEAST-L@rootsweb.com> Sent: Sunday, January 30, 2005 4:54 PM Subject: [CREEK-SOUTHEAST] The Creek/Anatolian Knot > > To GHARDAGE, and the list: > > I hope I haven't overstepped the rules and common courtesy by replying to > the list regarding the Creek/Anatolian knot. I was asked if I could > explain the Creek/Anatolian knot. I am NO expert, but have studied Indian > and Melungeon peoples for about l0 years. I believe that there are > certain common characteristics in both groups. Melungeons are mixed-race > people which includes Indian blood along with white, black, Gypsy, > Sephardic Jews, etc. The Melungeons were/are found in Appalachia and > through time, some descendants moved into the Southern foothills and > elsewhere. I think that many people in the South have Indian and/or > Melungeon ancestry, with most having no idea of their backgrounds. > > I have transcribed verbatim the following information from Nancy Sparks > Morrison. She is host of the Melungeon Topica site, and also has > references to several other noteworthy sites listed below. I give credit > solely to Nancy, not me. > > > www.geocities.com/mikenassau/definition.htm > > www.sparksgenealogy.com/melungeon.html > > www.melungeonhealth.org/info.html > > > I apologize for the blank picture showing shovel teeth, but it would not > print. Refer to the last site above and it will show you the correct > picture. Shovel teeth are just that--flat on the front like the back of a > shovel, with a deep curve like a spoon on the backside. > > The last several paragraphs point out similarities between Melungeons and > Turkish (Anatolian) people. > > Again, I hope I have not offended anyone. Thank you. > > Carolyn Funderburk > bamagal50@ec.rr.com > > > MELUNGEON PHYSICAL CHARACTERISTICS: > > There are some physiological characteristics which are called ethnic > markers, that seem to be passed on through the lines of some Melungeon > descendants. There is a bump on the back of the HEAD of SOME descendants, > that is located at mid-line, just ABOVE the juncture with the neck. It is > about the size and shape of half a golf ball or smaller. This is called an > ANATOLIAN BUMP, and indicates ancestry from the Anatolian region of > Turkey. If you cannot find the bump, check to see if you, like some > descendants, including myself, have a ridge, located at the base of the > head where it joins the neck, rather than the Anatolian bump. > > This ridge is an enlargement of the base of the skull, which is called a > Central Asian Cranial Ridge. My ridge is quite noticeable. It is larger > than anyone else's that I have felt, except my father's. I can lay one > finger under it and the ridge is as deep as my finger is thick. Other > ridges are smaller. To find a ridge, place your hand at the base of your > neck where it joins your shoulders, and on the center line of your spine. > Run your fingers straight up your neck toward your head. If you have a > ridge, it will stop your fingers from going on up and across your head. > ONLY people who live/d in the Anatolian region of Turkey or Central Asia > also have this "bump/ridge. > " > See the following diagram for the site of both the ridge and bump. > > Back of Head > \lllllllllllllllllllllllll/ > > ears ( ___x___ ) ears x marks the bump's location > \valley / the ridge is the line __ shown > \ / neck > / \__shoulders > > There is also a ridge on the back of the first four teeth - two front > teeth and the ones on either side (upper and lower) of some descendants. > If you place your fingernail at the gum line and gently draw (up or down) > you can feel it and it makes a slight clicking sound. The back of the > teeth also curve outward rather than straight as the descendants of > anglo-saxon parentage do. Teeth like these are called Asian Shovel Teeth. > > Many Indian descendants also have this type of teeth. The back of the > first four teeth of Northern European descendants are straight and flat. > > > An example of northern European teeth would be similar to this diagram: > [ \l ] > Shovel teeth look like this diagram. Back of teeth [ )/ ] front of teeth, > straight > 10f7119f.jpg > > > SOME Melungeon descendants have what is called an Asian eyefold. This is > rather difficult to describe. At the inner corner of the eye, the upper > lid attaches slightly lower than the lower lid. That is to say that, it > overlaps the bottom lid. If you place your finger just under the inner > corner of the eye and gently pull down, a wrinkle will form which makes > the fold more visible. Some people call these eyes, "sleepy eyes, dreamy > eyes, bedroom eyes." Many Indian descendants also have these kinds of > eyes. > > nose < 0 > > ^ place your finger here and draw down gently > > Some families may have members with fairly dark skin who suffer with > vitiligo, a loss of pigmentation, leaving the skin blotched with white > patches. Some descendants have had six fingers or toes. There is a > family of people in Turkey whose surname translated into English is "Six > Fingered Ones." The term for that in Turkiq is "AltI parmak." (pronounced > "altah-par-mock) "AltI" ends with the undotted Turkish "i" which is > pronounced as "uh." > > There is a region near Efes (Ephesus) called "AltI Parmak" - many of the > people there have historically had six fingers. Some families have even > taken the last name of "AltIparmak." > > If your family has an Indian Grandmother(father) `myth' which you have > been unable to prove, an adoption story that is unprovable, or an orphan > myth, and they have been hard to trace and they lived in NC, TN, KY, VA, > WV areas in the early migration years or if they seem to have moved back > and forth in these areas and if they share any of the mentioned surnames > and characteristics, you MAY find a connection here. Some descendants do > not show the physical characteristics and of course, there are many people > with the surnames who are not connected to this group. > > > ==== CREEK-SOUTHEAST Mailing List ==== > To unsubscribe, send to CREEK-SOUTHEAST-L-request@rootsweb.com the one > word, UNSUBSCRIBE, in the BODY of the message. If you are subscribed to > the digest, send your unsubscrbe message to > CREEK-SOUTHEAST-D-request@rootsweb.com. Visit the Home page to learn more > http://www.accessgenealogy.com/native/mail/creekse.htm > > ============================== > View and search Historical Newspapers. Read about your ancestors, find > marriage announcements and more. Learn more: > http://www.ancestry.com/s13969/rd.ashx >

This is a Message Board Post that is gatewayed to this mailing list. Classification: Query Message Board URL: http://boards.ancestry.com/mbexec/msg/an/5R.2ADI/1085.4 Message Board Post: Ron, When a recessive gene (like the orange hair color which likely came from Scots) is introduced into a relatively closed population, the incidence of expression of that gene increases, relative to how often it is seen in the larger population. This is due to there being a greater liklihood of two carrriers marrying, which is required for a recessive gene to be expressed (and even then, it may not be expressed). It is also possible for two different recessive genes (for two different unusual hair colors) to be introduced into a closed community. In such situations, one of those recessive genes will still be "stronger" than the other recesssive gene, and will likely be expressed more than the other. Many things can affect how often the "new" gene(s) are expressed---- such as how many offspring came from the first person with it, and how much intermarriage there was between close cousins in subsequent generations. It is certainly feasible that in small, closed populations, after many generations, a gene for recessive hair color can be expressed so frequently that it appears to be dominantly transmitted, even though it is not. In much larger populations the same genes may be carried, but rarely expressed, for many generations, or never expressed. You can read more about the basics of genetic transmission at any number of websites. You may even be able to read what chromosomes carrying the specific hair colors by going to sites about the Human Genome Project. I believe I saw something about redheds there.

This is a Message Board Post that is gatewayed to this mailing list. Classification: Query Message Board URL: http://boards.ancestry.com/mbexec/msg/an/5R.2ADI/1097.2 Message Board Post: Can you provide the approximate year your grandparents married, where they went to after they were in Geneva/Dale county, when died and where buried (include county), and their siblings' names? Are they in census records? I've seen HOLLOWAYs along side some families I am researching, who have connections to that area of AL. I might be able to help you if you could provide more inforrmation.

UNSUBSCRIBE ----- Original Message ----- From: CREEK-SOUTHEAST-D-request@rootsweb.com To: CREEK-SOUTHEAST-D@rootsweb.com Sent: Thursday, January 27, 2005 4:00 PM Subject: CREEK-SOUTHEAST-D Digest V05 #20

Richard, Are you Yuchi as your email name implies? Do you know the book "The Secret" by Joseph P. Mahan? I believe it is out of print. It's so hard to find information about this little-known tribe. Isn't the Yuchi stompgrounds in Oklahoma at Kelleyville? Were/are they allied with the Creeks in Oklahoma after the removal? I've read that before the removal that the Creeks (in Alabama) took in the Yuchis, along with other struggling remnant groups. I am from Oxford, Alabama, near the Coosa/Koosee River, and have been studying Indian history/genealogy for about 10 years. Years ago in Alabama, next to nothing was taught in schools about Indians or their cultures, so I've had to learn on my own. Plus, there was very little talk in families about Indian ancestry or history. My husband Gene's ancestors lived in Jones, Jasper and Bulloch Counties, Georgia in the l800s. His cousin in Gray, GA lives right across from the Hitchiti Forest Experimental Area--or some such name--very close to the Ocmulgee River. BTW, I have that Creek knot on the back of my head, as do my two sons. I have heard it called the "Anatolian bump or knot." Gene, who appears to have more Indian blood than me (if I have any), does not have this knot. He and his family however, have the epicanthic eyefolds commonly found among Mongoloid people, along with several other traits. Go figure. I imagine that many/most Southerners have some Indian background due to the frequent and early mixing of peoples from the late l500s onward, especially until the main removal out West in l838-l839. Thanks so much for your helpful info. I enjoy reading everything you post. Carolyn Funderburk bamagal50@ec.rr.com

Thanks, it's a great site, but unfortunately no ties to mine (that I see). I'm looking for info. on a John MOORE born somewhere between 1775-1800 md. a Nancy ? (possible MILLER) had these known children: William Ensely, James Wesley, Elizabeth, George Dumas and possible another Wesley and John thanks again, Debbie ----- Original Message ----- From: Grl2nice4u@aol.com To: woolfpac@prodigy.net Sent: Wednesday, January 26, 2005 7:28 PM Subject: Re: [CREEK-SOUTHEAST] Chickamauga Band i can help you with the moore line... check out my cousins webpage gina index <-------- here it is

This is a Message Board Post that is gatewayed to this mailing list. Classification: Query Message Board URL: http://boards.ancestry.com/mbexec/msg/rw/5R.2ADI/75.299.550.553 Message Board Post: even if we r mixed ,we should be able to claim our ancestry as native americans My gmother is 92 and a sizemore.

Debbie: I don't know anything about the "knot". Maybe another Jerry on the list. I have a knot too but I thought that was the reason my dad called me a "knot head" (humor). Be Well! Jerry ----- Original Message ----- From: "Debbie Woolf" <woolfpac@PRODIGY.NET> To: <CREEK-SOUTHEAST-L@rootsweb.com> Sent: Wednesday, January 26, 2005 1:22 PM Subject: Re: [CREEK-SOUTHEAST] Chickamauga Band > Jerry, > > I'm not disputing the fact about the knot, but want some clearification. > I > had heard this many > years back about the bump at the back of the head. However, I have seen > some 'experts' > dispute it. What is the current feelings about this and is it science > based? > > I do have the bump, and have felt many other people's heads. My spouse did > not have it, > my kids do. My siblings do. Also, one of my nephews was born with the > mongolian spot. > I am positive we are Native and like many it's a mix and they were not on > the rolls. > > It is most frustrating to remain "a wannabee" in many eyes because I lack > proof (paper). My > family came from the right areas as well. I will write down my surnames > that I research and > locations/dates with a remark about possible tribes: > > the first 3 have N/A lines and probably were Melungeon > MYERS, native comes from a "wife", surname or indian name unknown, first > name > she went by was "Indianna". Her real name might be Frances BELL. > they lived in Wash. Co. TN, Hawkins co. TN in the 1830's then to > Rhea/Meigs co. TN > MOORE/SMITH out of NC, not sure county yet. Seen in 1860 Wilkes Co. NC > and > migrated > frequently. Not in Wilkes in 1850. Went into TN (probably Meigs region) > then to Pulaski Co. > KY, back to TN , finally IT by 1885 with the MYERS > MULLINS out of NC, not sure where, came to Grainger, Jefferson co. TN then > to WEST MO > next ARk and then TX by 1880 > GARRETTs out of VA, SC md. into JONES, HARRIS lines who were out of NC > THOMPSON out of NC (probably Burke Co. > region)<-----------------------------Cherokee? > LONG out of NC (Burke Co. region) <---------------------German and > possible > Cherokee > SHELTON md. into the THOMPSON/LONG lines in Union/Fannin Co. GA > I'm stuck real bad on this line, only have one name. She might be N/A > ADKISSON/ATKINS/ATKINSON out of NC (where?) to Pulaski Co. GA before 1800 > md. into BUTLER, HODO lines. Butler is probably out of NC, HODO was in > Tusc. Co. > ALA before 1830 and possible had more than one wife, he was a surveyor > <----------CREEK > HODO lived in Twiggs and Houston Co. GA later and ADKISSONs in Pulaski > Co. > GA > I'm thinking ADKISSON were probably Lumbee > > all of these lines are hard to research, I find few marraige records, > land > records, deed, wills, ect. > I've exhausted many sources and am at a standstill on most of these lines. > > I'd love to have anyone with info. on these surnames associated with any > tribe to come forward and share the information. Concerning THOMPSON, my > line was living very near the David THOMPSON and Nancy RIDER (CHerokee) > line. I'm thinking "She" might have been a 2nd wife of one of the > THOMPSONs. No marriage, no remarraige and yet she is found on census > without a husband, with children, more children and still no husband > listed. > If I could locate the will of James LONG Sr. and Uly CANSLER LONG I might > find some answers. Elizabeth THOMPSON was listed as a LONG in 1880 with > Cicero LONG as his mother. I believe that was an err and he is her > brother. > However another possiblity exists and that is Eliz. THOMPSON was her maide > name and she was the "other" wife of James LONG. She was living with > James > and Uly LONG in 1850. Missing on the 1860 GA census and back in 1870 next > door to the LONGs. > 1880 as I said she is with Cicero LONG. Possible a will exists for > Cicero > or for Eliz. LONG THOMPSON (Or whatever her name was). Is there anyone > from > the Fannin/Union area who could look for me? > > Thanks, Debbie > ----- Original Message ----- > From: <Yuchimicco@aol.com> > To: <CREEK-SOUTHEAST-L@rootsweb.com> > Sent: Tuesday, January 25, 2005 4:20 PM > Subject: [CREEK-SOUTHEAST] Chickamauga Band > > >> Folks, don't be shocked but the word Chickamauga is a Muskogean word, > and >> the so-called Chickamauga Cherokees were actually the result of Chief > Dragging >> Canoe leading a band of renegade Cherokees out of the mountains to settle > at a >> Tuskegee (northern Creek) town on the Tennessee River near modern day >> Chattanooga. Not only that, but Chota, Tennessee the birthplace of > Sequoyah, was >> originally a Tuskegee town. The Tuskegees (actually Tas-ke'-ke') were >> originally in the Little Tennessee River Valley just west of the >> Cherokees > and >> Upper Tennessee Valley. They were thoroughly decimated by Spanish swords > and >> diseases. Many of the survivors merged with the Cherokees and within a > generation >> were speaking Tsa-la-gi. >> >> There were 2400 Creeks living the Cherokee Nation in Georgia in 1832. >> Especially, around Rome, and Cartersville, GA there were actually Creek > villages >> happily settled beside Cherokee villages. Many of the Creeks scattered > into >> the mountains prior to the Trail of Tears since they were not on the > Cherokee >> Rolls. >> >> Tullahoma, Tennessee got its name for the Tuskegee name meaning "Red > Town." >> >> >> If you have a Creek knot - a bony protrusion at the base of the skull > above >> where the neck joins, then you have Muskogean ancesters. >> >> Oh, if we only had a time machine to go back and see what really >> happened >> 2-500 years ago! >> >> Richard >> >> >> >> ==== CREEK-SOUTHEAST Mailing List ==== >> To unsubscribe, send to CREEK-SOUTHEAST-L-request@rootsweb.com the one > word, UNSUBSCRIBE, in the BODY of the message. If you are subscribed to > the > digest, send your unsubscrbe message to > CREEK-SOUTHEAST-D-request@rootsweb.com. Visit the Home page to learn more > http://www.accessgenealogy.com/native/mail/creekse.htm >> >> ============================== >> Search the US Census Collection. Over 140 million records added in the >> last 12 months. Largest online collection in the world. Learn more: > http://www.ancestry.com/s13965/rd.ashx >> > > > ==== CREEK-SOUTHEAST Mailing List ==== > To unsubscribe, send to CREEK-SOUTHEAST-L-request@rootsweb.com the one > word, UNSUBSCRIBE, in the BODY of the message. If you are subscribed to > the digest, send your unsubscrbe message to > CREEK-SOUTHEAST-D-request@rootsweb.com. Visit the Home page to learn more > http://www.accessgenealogy.com/native/mail/creekse.htm > > ============================== > View and search Historical Newspapers. Read about your ancestors, find > marriage announcements and more. Learn more: > http://www.ancestry.com/s13969/rd.ashx >

Melody, there was a BLACK family in the Burke Co. NC region, I don't know much about them but there was a Nathan B. THOMPSON who was suppose to have md. BLACK and she was said to be Native American. I can't remember her first name but I think you will locate her by using the spouse's name in a search. Debbie ----- Original Message ----- From: "Melody (Little Wolf)" <little_wolf_melody@yahoo.com> To: <CREEK-SOUTHEAST-L@rootsweb.com> Sent: Wednesday, January 26, 2005 10:57 AM Subject: [CREEK-SOUTHEAST] Black surname, Thomas, Hall > Thank you for your reply Jerry...My uncle is the one who says we are Creek...but I am pretty sure Cherokee as well...it's like he didn't want to be called Cherokee for some reason...we definetly look Native American...even me with the mixture...I also have Blackfeet, 1/4 Portuguese and 1/4 Irish or Dutch...I am olive complected like my mom...my uncles are real dark...I get real dark in summer...I sure would love to find my family and have paperwork...but if I can't...then, well, I know inside anyways...just hoping to find something...to be a part of the circle...I will try to find more names in my family...that would probably be a big help...OH, and I do have a Creek knot on back of head...lol...not a big one, but it's there...Thank you for all the information...I hope Creator will lead me to my family back in those days...Melody (Little Wolf)... > > CREEK-SOUTHEAST-D-request@rootsweb.com wrote: > > > ATTACHMENT part 1 message/rfc822 > > CREEK-SOUTHEAST-D Digest Volume 05 : Issue 18 > > Today's Topics: > #1 Re: CREEK-SOUTHEAST-Black surname ["Melody \(Little Wolf\)" > #2 Re: [CREEK-SOUTHEAST] Re: CREEK-SO ["Jerry Cranford" #3 Chickamauga Band [Yuchimicco@aol.com] > #4 Explanation of what "Muskogean" me [Yuchimicco@aol.com] > #5 Re: [CREEK-SOUTHEAST] Chickamauga ["Jerry Cranford" > Administrivia: > To unsubscribe from CREEK-SOUTHEAST-D, send a message to > > CREEK-SOUTHEAST-D-request@rootsweb.com > > that contains in the body of the message the command > > unsubscribe > > and no other text. No subject line is necessary, but if your software > requires one, just use unsubscribe in the subject, too. > > ______________________________ > > > ATTACHMENT part 2 message/rfc822 > Date: Tue, 25 Jan 2005 15:01:10 -0800 (PST) > From: "Melody \(Little Wolf\)" > > To: CREEK-SOUTHEAST-L@rootsweb.com > Subject: Re: CREEK-SOUTHEAST-Black surname > > Hi, > > I am searching my Grandfathers side...I don't have much to go by...My Grandfathers name was Richard Black...his fathers name was Walter Black who married Idaho Thomas...now my uncle tells me we are Creek...but back in the day when they put them on reservations, my family fled to the mountains...and are not accounted for...I am thinking maybe someone is from back in our family tree...My Grandfather taugh me Native American ways, but would not talk about our Culture in front of anyone else...he said he was Black Irish or Black Dutch...I know he was born in Tennessee and his parents were born in North Carolina...the last name Black might be a cut off of another name...does anyone have any info at all that might help me??? Thanks, Melody > > > > - ------------------------------- > Do you Yahoo!? > Yahoo! Search presents - Jib Jab's 'Second Term' > > ______________________________ > > > ATTACHMENT part 3 message/rfc822 > Date: Tue, 25 Jan 2005 16:26:39 -0700 > From: "Jerry Cranford" > To: CREEK-SOUTHEAST-L@rootsweb.com > Subject: Re: [CREEK-SOUTHEAST] Re: CREEK-SOUTHEAST-Black surname > > Melody; > I don't have any help for you but the mention of "black dutch" brought a > smile. My mothers side are cherokee (tslagi) and my grandmother insisted > that she was "black dutch" to her dying day even though her grandfather came > to IT during the "Trail of Tears". Are you sure they were Creek? My > ancestors that were Chereokee were Chicamauga and came from NC through TN > and then to IT in about 1834. Some went back to Arkansas for awhile before > being pushed back to IT in the late 1830 and early 1840's. Most of the > Creeks came from Georgia and Alabama. > > My dad was Creek (don't really know which group) but they were removed from > the Jasper County, Georgia in 1824 (I always get a chuckle when I read about > the first "white" child being born in the area about 1815). I was just > looking at a photo of his grandfather (my g grandfather) taken about 1875. > I am proud of his (our) heritage. They picked up the name Cranford > somewhere along the way. My best guess is that they used the name of a > trader. My 90 year female old cousin said that all of the women got > together and allowed a white man to marry into the clan and that he was a > trader. Anyway that is the way the story goes. > > Good luck! > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Melody (Little Wolf)" > > To: > Sent: Tuesday, January 25, 2005 4:01 PM > Subject: [CREEK-SOUTHEAST] Re: CREEK-SOUTHEAST-Black surname > > > > > > Hi, > > > > I am searching my Grandfathers side...I don't have much to go by...My > > Grandfathers name was Richard Black...his fathers name was Walter Black > > who married Idaho Thomas...now my uncle tells me we are Creek...but back > > in the day when they put them on reservations, my family fled to the > > mountains...and are not accounted for...I am thinking maybe someone is > > from back in our family tree...My Grandfather taugh me Native American > > ways, but would not talk about our Culture in front of anyone else...he > > said he was Black Irish or Black Dutch...I know he was born in Tennessee > > and his parents were born in North Carolina...the last name Black might be > > a cut off of another name...does anyone have any info at all that might > > help me??? Thanks, Melody > > > > > > > > --------------------------------- > > Do you Yahoo!? > > Yahoo! Search presents - Jib Jab's 'Second Term' > > > > > > ==== CREEK-SOUTHEAST Mailing List ==== > > Read a Creek book on line: Notes on the Creek, > > http://www.accessgenealogy.com/native/creeknotes/ > > > > ============================== > > Search Family and Local Histories for stories about your family and the > > areas they lived. Over 85 million names added in the last 12 months. > > Learn more: http://www.ancestry.com/s13966/rd.ashx > > > > ______________________________ > > > ATTACHMENT part 4 message/rfc822 > Date: Tue, 25 Jan 2005 19:20:03 EST > From: Yuchimicco@aol.com > To: CREEK-SOUTHEAST-L@rootsweb.com > Subject: Chickamauga Band > > Folks, don't be shocked but the word Chickamauga is a Muskogean word, and > the so-called Chickamauga Cherokees were actually the result of Chief Dragging > Canoe leading a band of renegade Cherokees out of the mountains to settle at a > Tuskegee (northern Creek) town on the Tennessee River near modern day > Chattanooga. Not only that, but Chota, Tennessee the birthplace of Sequoyah, was > originally a Tuskegee town. The Tuskegees (actually Tas-ke'-ke') were > originally in the Little Tennessee River Valley just west of the Cherokees and > Upper Tennessee Valley. They were thoroughly decimated by Spanish swords and > diseases. Many of the survivors merged with the Cherokees and within a generation > were speaking Tsa-la-gi. > > There were 2400 Creeks living the Cherokee Nation in Georgia in 1832. > Especially, around Rome, and Cartersville, GA there were actually Creek villages > happily settled beside Cherokee villages. Many of the Creeks scattered into > the mountains prior to the Trail of Tears since they were not on the Cherokee > Rolls. > > Tullahoma, Tennessee got its name for the Tuskegee name meaning "Red Town." > > > If you have a Creek knot - a bony protrusion at the base of the skull above > where the neck joins, then you have Muskogean ancesters. > > Oh, if we only had a time machine to go back and see what really happened > 2-500 years ago! > > Richard > > ______________________________ > > > ATTACHMENT part 5 message/rfc822 > Date: Tue, 25 Jan 2005 22:35:40 EST > From: Yuchimicco@aol.com > To: CREEK-SOUTHEAST-L@rootsweb.com > Subject: Explanation of what "Muskogean" means > > Anthropologists define Muskogean as the language spoken by the majority of > cultural groups in the Deep Southeast at the time of the European Contact. The > name comes from the Muskogees who lived in the Chattahoochee River Valley, > but later became the core of the People of One Fire, known to the English as > the Creek Confederacy. Because the Muskogees were pretty much at the center of > these chiefdoms, their language became the "trade language" that was used for > communication between the groups. Many Muskogean chiefdoms disappeared or > merged, but today the Muskogee (Creek), Choctaw, Chickasaw, Seminole, > Alabama, Koasati, Houma, Ouchita and Caddo speak Muskogean dialects. Creek is a > name that the English called the Muskogeans in Georgia and Alabama because > their towns and village were usually near navagable streams. The majority of > Native Americans in Georgia in 1700 actually spoke Hitchiti, not Muskogee. > Hitchiti is a language that is roughly halfway between true Muskogee and > Choctaw. Many Seminoles speak Hitchiti today. The Alabamas, Koasati and Tuskegee > spoke a language that was even more similar to Choctaw. > > ______________________________ > > > ATTACHMENT part 6 message/rfc822 > Date: Wed, 26 Jan 2005 07:54:05 -0700 > From: "Jerry Cranford" > To: CREEK-SOUTHEAST-L@rootsweb.com > Subject: Re: [CREEK-SOUTHEAST] Chickamauga Band > > Richard; > Thanks for your information. I understand that the word Cherokee is a > Muskogean word as well, being roughly translated as "those who don't speak > our language". > > Your point is well taken. My mothers people came from North Carolina and > indeed did settle near Chattanooga. They didn't consider themselves > renegades, however. They definitely could not abide living near whites and > moved on to IT in the early 1830's. > > What you wrote re: the Creek and Cherokee and even the Choctaw is reflected > in my Dad's stories. His grandmother who was born in the 1840's told him to > never go west (I suppose she meant west of Oklahoma). Because, "bad" indians > live there. Whatever that meant. I have always been happy about my > heritage. Especially, the Creek side. Unfortunately, much of the culture > was lost or melded into other cultures ie. Cherokee and Seminole. Some of > my family went to south Alabama and just intermarried with the whites. > Pretty typical, actually. > > Jerry > ----- Original Message ----- > From: > To: > Sent: Tuesday, January 25, 2005 5:20 PM > Subject: [CREEK-SOUTHEAST] Chickamauga Band > > > > Folks, don't be shocked but the word Chickamauga is a Muskogean word, > > and > > the so-called Chickamauga Cherokees were actually the result of Chief > > Dragging > > Canoe leading a band of renegade Cherokees out of the mountains to settle > > at a > > Tuskegee (northern Creek) town on the Tennessee River near modern day > > Chattanooga. Not only that, but Chota, Tennessee the birthplace of > > Sequoyah, was > > originally a Tuskegee town. The Tuskegees (actually Tas-ke'-ke') were > > originally in the Little Tennessee River Valley just west of the Cherokees > > and > > Upper Tennessee Valley. They were thoroughly decimated by Spanish swords > > and > > diseases. Many of the survivors merged with the Cherokees and within a > > generation > > were speaking Tsa-la-gi. > > > > There were 2400 Creeks living the Cherokee Nation in Georgia in 1832. > > Especially, around Rome, and Cartersville, GA there were actually Creek > > villages > > happily settled beside Cherokee villages. Many of the Creeks scattered > > into > > the mountains prior to the Trail of Tears since they were not on the > > Cherokee > > Rolls. > > > > Tullahoma, Tennessee got its name for the Tuskegee name meaning "Red > > Town." > > > > > > If you have a Creek knot - a bony protrusion at the base of the skull > > above > > where the neck joins, then you have Muskogean ancesters. > > > > Oh, if we only had a time machine to go back and see what really happened > > 2-500 years ago! > > > > Richard > > > > > > > > ==== CREEK-SOUTHEAST Mailing List ==== > > To unsubscribe, send to CREEK-SOUTHEAST-L-request@rootsweb.com the one > > word, UNSUBSCRIBE, in the BODY of the message. If you are subscribed to > > the digest, send your unsubscrbe message to > > CREEK-SOUTHEAST-D-request@rootsweb.com. Visit the Home page to learn more > > http://www.accessgenealogy.com/native/mail/creekse.htm > > > > ============================== > > Search the US Census Collection. Over 140 million records added in the > > last 12 months. Largest online collection in the world. Learn more: > > http://www.ancestry.com/s13965/rd.ashx > > > > > > --------------------------------- > Do you Yahoo!? > Read only the mail you want - Yahoo! Mail SpamGuard. > > > ==== CREEK-SOUTHEAST Mailing List ==== > To unsubscribe, send to CREEK-SOUTHEAST-L-request@rootsweb.com the one word, UNSUBSCRIBE, in the BODY of the message. If you are subscribed to the digest, send your unsubscrbe message to CREEK-SOUTHEAST-D-request@rootsweb.com. Visit the Home page to learn more http://www.accessgenealogy.com/native/mail/creekse.htm > > ============================== > Search the US Census Collection. Over 140 million records added in the > last 12 months. Largest online collection in the world. Learn more: http://www.ancestry.com/s13965/rd.ashx >

Debbie, Don't know if it connects but my daughter-in-law is a Shelton. They were Trail of Tears, Cherokee to IT. Some are registered in OK. Regards Cousin, --- [This E-mail scanned for viruses by Declude Virus]

I too had ancestors who said they were Black Dutch and refused to discuss their heritage outside the family. They were so afraid of being persecuted that if you go back through the census they are mostly listed as white or mulengan but rarely if every Indian. I too have grown proud of that heritage in my family over the years and hope someday to have an opportunity to learn more of the ways of the Native Americans so that I can pass that down to my grandchildren as something to be proud of and not ashamed of. Mark Jeffcoat Goose Creek, SC -----Original Message----- From: Jerry Cranford [mailto:jerry_cranford@comcast.net] Sent: Tuesday, January 25, 2005 6:27 PM To: CREEK-SOUTHEAST-L@rootsweb.com Subject: Re: [CREEK-SOUTHEAST] Re: CREEK-SOUTHEAST-Black surname Melody; I don't have any help for you but the mention of "black dutch" brought a smile. My mothers side are cherokee (tslagi) and my grandmother insisted that she was "black dutch" to her dying day even though her grandfather came to IT during the "Trail of Tears". Are you sure they were Creek? My ancestors that were Chereokee were Chicamauga and came from NC through TN and then to IT in about 1834. Some went back to Arkansas for awhile before being pushed back to IT in the late 1830 and early 1840's. Most of the Creeks came from Georgia and Alabama. My dad was Creek (don't really know which group) but they were removed from the Jasper County, Georgia in 1824 (I always get a chuckle when I read about the first "white" child being born in the area about 1815). I was just looking at a photo of his grandfather (my g grandfather) taken about 1875. I am proud of his (our) heritage. They picked up the name Cranford somewhere along the way. My best guess is that they used the name of a trader. My 90 year female old cousin said that all of the women got together and allowed a white man to marry into the clan and that he was a trader. Anyway that is the way the story goes. Good luck! ----- Original Message ----- From: "Melody (Little Wolf)" <little_wolf_melody@yahoo.com> To: <CREEK-SOUTHEAST-L@rootsweb.com> Sent: Tuesday, January 25, 2005 4:01 PM Subject: [CREEK-SOUTHEAST] Re: CREEK-SOUTHEAST-Black surname > > Hi, > > I am searching my Grandfathers side...I don't have much to go by...My > Grandfathers name was Richard Black...his fathers name was Walter Black > who married Idaho Thomas...now my uncle tells me we are Creek...but back > in the day when they put them on reservations, my family fled to the > mountains...and are not accounted for...I am thinking maybe someone is > from back in our family tree...My Grandfather taugh me Native American > ways, but would not talk about our Culture in front of anyone else...he > said he was Black Irish or Black Dutch...I know he was born in Tennessee > and his parents were born in North Carolina...the last name Black might be > a cut off of another name...does anyone have any info at all that might > help me??? Thanks, Melody > > > > --------------------------------- > Do you Yahoo!? > Yahoo! Search presents - Jib Jab's 'Second Term' > > > ==== CREEK-SOUTHEAST Mailing List ==== > Read a Creek book on line: Notes on the Creek, > http://www.accessgenealogy.com/native/creeknotes/ > > ============================== > Search Family and Local Histories for stories about your family and the > areas they lived. Over 85 million names added in the last 12 months. > Learn more: http://www.ancestry.com/s13966/rd.ashx > ______________________________

Jerry, I'm not disputing the fact about the knot, but want some clearification. I had heard this many years back about the bump at the back of the head. However, I have seen some 'experts' dispute it. What is the current feelings about this and is it science based? I do have the bump, and have felt many other people's heads. My spouse did not have it, my kids do. My siblings do. Also, one of my nephews was born with the mongolian spot. I am positive we are Native and like many it's a mix and they were not on the rolls. It is most frustrating to remain "a wannabee" in many eyes because I lack proof (paper). My family came from the right areas as well. I will write down my surnames that I research and locations/dates with a remark about possible tribes: the first 3 have N/A lines and probably were Melungeon MYERS, native comes from a "wife", surname or indian name unknown, first name she went by was "Indianna". Her real name might be Frances BELL. they lived in Wash. Co. TN, Hawkins co. TN in the 1830's then to Rhea/Meigs co. TN MOORE/SMITH out of NC, not sure county yet. Seen in 1860 Wilkes Co. NC and migrated frequently. Not in Wilkes in 1850. Went into TN (probably Meigs region) then to Pulaski Co. KY, back to TN , finally IT by 1885 with the MYERS MULLINS out of NC, not sure where, came to Grainger, Jefferson co. TN then to WEST MO next ARk and then TX by 1880 GARRETTs out of VA, SC md. into JONES, HARRIS lines who were out of NC THOMPSON out of NC (probably Burke Co. region)<-----------------------------Cherokee? LONG out of NC (Burke Co. region) <---------------------German and possible Cherokee SHELTON md. into the THOMPSON/LONG lines in Union/Fannin Co. GA I'm stuck real bad on this line, only have one name. She might be N/A ADKISSON/ATKINS/ATKINSON out of NC (where?) to Pulaski Co. GA before 1800 md. into BUTLER, HODO lines. Butler is probably out of NC, HODO was in Tusc. Co. ALA before 1830 and possible had more than one wife, he was a surveyor <----------CREEK HODO lived in Twiggs and Houston Co. GA later and ADKISSONs in Pulaski Co. GA I'm thinking ADKISSON were probably Lumbee all of these lines are hard to research, I find few marraige records, land records, deed, wills, ect. I've exhausted many sources and am at a standstill on most of these lines. I'd love to have anyone with info. on these surnames associated with any tribe to come forward and share the information. Concerning THOMPSON, my line was living very near the David THOMPSON and Nancy RIDER (CHerokee) line. I'm thinking "She" might have been a 2nd wife of one of the THOMPSONs. No marriage, no remarraige and yet she is found on census without a husband, with children, more children and still no husband listed. If I could locate the will of James LONG Sr. and Uly CANSLER LONG I might find some answers. Elizabeth THOMPSON was listed as a LONG in 1880 with Cicero LONG as his mother. I believe that was an err and he is her brother. However another possiblity exists and that is Eliz. THOMPSON was her maide name and she was the "other" wife of James LONG. She was living with James and Uly LONG in 1850. Missing on the 1860 GA census and back in 1870 next door to the LONGs. 1880 as I said she is with Cicero LONG. Possible a will exists for Cicero or for Eliz. LONG THOMPSON (Or whatever her name was). Is there anyone from the Fannin/Union area who could look for me? Thanks, Debbie ----- Original Message ----- From: <Yuchimicco@aol.com> To: <CREEK-SOUTHEAST-L@rootsweb.com> Sent: Tuesday, January 25, 2005 4:20 PM Subject: [CREEK-SOUTHEAST] Chickamauga Band > Folks, don't be shocked but the word Chickamauga is a Muskogean word, and > the so-called Chickamauga Cherokees were actually the result of Chief Dragging > Canoe leading a band of renegade Cherokees out of the mountains to settle at a > Tuskegee (northern Creek) town on the Tennessee River near modern day > Chattanooga. Not only that, but Chota, Tennessee the birthplace of Sequoyah, was > originally a Tuskegee town. The Tuskegees (actually Tas-ke'-ke') were > originally in the Little Tennessee River Valley just west of the Cherokees and > Upper Tennessee Valley. They were thoroughly decimated by Spanish swords and > diseases. Many of the survivors merged with the Cherokees and within a generation > were speaking Tsa-la-gi. > > There were 2400 Creeks living the Cherokee Nation in Georgia in 1832. > Especially, around Rome, and Cartersville, GA there were actually Creek villages > happily settled beside Cherokee villages. Many of the Creeks scattered into > the mountains prior to the Trail of Tears since they were not on the Cherokee > Rolls. > > Tullahoma, Tennessee got its name for the Tuskegee name meaning "Red Town." > > > If you have a Creek knot - a bony protrusion at the base of the skull above > where the neck joins, then you have Muskogean ancesters. > > Oh, if we only had a time machine to go back and see what really happened > 2-500 years ago! > > Richard > > > > ==== CREEK-SOUTHEAST Mailing List ==== > To unsubscribe, send to CREEK-SOUTHEAST-L-request@rootsweb.com the one word, UNSUBSCRIBE, in the BODY of the message. If you are subscribed to the digest, send your unsubscrbe message to CREEK-SOUTHEAST-D-request@rootsweb.com. Visit the Home page to learn more http://www.accessgenealogy.com/native/mail/creekse.htm > > ============================== > Search the US Census Collection. Over 140 million records added in the > last 12 months. Largest online collection in the world. Learn more: http://www.ancestry.com/s13965/rd.ashx >

Thank you for your reply Jerry...My uncle is the one who says we are Creek...but I am pretty sure Cherokee as well...it's like he didn't want to be called Cherokee for some reason...we definetly look Native American...even me with the mixture...I also have Blackfeet, 1/4 Portuguese and 1/4 Irish or Dutch...I am olive complected like my mom...my uncles are real dark...I get real dark in summer...I sure would love to find my family and have paperwork...but if I can't...then, well, I know inside anyways...just hoping to find something...to be a part of the circle...I will try to find more names in my family...that would probably be a big help...OH, and I do have a Creek knot on back of head...lol...not a big one, but it's there...Thank you for all the information...I hope Creator will lead me to my family back in those days...Melody (Little Wolf)... CREEK-SOUTHEAST-D-request@rootsweb.com wrote: > ATTACHMENT part 1 message/rfc822 CREEK-SOUTHEAST-D Digest Volume 05 : Issue 18 Today's Topics: #1 Re: CREEK-SOUTHEAST-Black surname ["Melody \(Little Wolf\)" #2 Re: [CREEK-SOUTHEAST] Re: CREEK-SO ["Jerry Cranford" #3 Chickamauga Band [Yuchimicco@aol.com] #4 Explanation of what "Muskogean" me [Yuchimicco@aol.com] #5 Re: [CREEK-SOUTHEAST] Chickamauga ["Jerry Cranford" Administrivia: To unsubscribe from CREEK-SOUTHEAST-D, send a message to CREEK-SOUTHEAST-D-request@rootsweb.com that contains in the body of the message the command unsubscribe and no other text. No subject line is necessary, but if your software requires one, just use unsubscribe in the subject, too. ______________________________ > ATTACHMENT part 2 message/rfc822 Date: Tue, 25 Jan 2005 15:01:10 -0800 (PST) From: "Melody \(Little Wolf\)" To: CREEK-SOUTHEAST-L@rootsweb.com Subject: Re: CREEK-SOUTHEAST-Black surname Hi, I am searching my Grandfathers side...I don't have much to go by...My Grandfathers name was Richard Black...his fathers name was Walter Black who married Idaho Thomas...now my uncle tells me we are Creek...but back in the day when they put them on reservations, my family fled to the mountains...and are not accounted for...I am thinking maybe someone is from back in our family tree...My Grandfather taugh me Native American ways, but would not talk about our Culture in front of anyone else...he said he was Black Irish or Black Dutch...I know he was born in Tennessee and his parents were born in North Carolina...the last name Black might be a cut off of another name...does anyone have any info at all that might help me??? Thanks, Melody - ------------------------------- Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Search presents - Jib Jab's 'Second Term' ______________________________ > ATTACHMENT part 3 message/rfc822 Date: Tue, 25 Jan 2005 16:26:39 -0700 From: "Jerry Cranford" To: CREEK-SOUTHEAST-L@rootsweb.com Subject: Re: [CREEK-SOUTHEAST] Re: CREEK-SOUTHEAST-Black surname Melody; I don't have any help for you but the mention of "black dutch" brought a smile. My mothers side are cherokee (tslagi) and my grandmother insisted that she was "black dutch" to her dying day even though her grandfather came to IT during the "Trail of Tears". Are you sure they were Creek? My ancestors that were Chereokee were Chicamauga and came from NC through TN and then to IT in about 1834. Some went back to Arkansas for awhile before being pushed back to IT in the late 1830 and early 1840's. Most of the Creeks came from Georgia and Alabama. My dad was Creek (don't really know which group) but they were removed from the Jasper County, Georgia in 1824 (I always get a chuckle when I read about the first "white" child being born in the area about 1815). I was just looking at a photo of his grandfather (my g grandfather) taken about 1875. I am proud of his (our) heritage. They picked up the name Cranford somewhere along the way. My best guess is that they used the name of a trader. My 90 year female old cousin said that all of the women got together and allowed a white man to marry into the clan and that he was a trader. Anyway that is the way the story goes. Good luck! ----- Original Message ----- From: "Melody (Little Wolf)" To: Sent: Tuesday, January 25, 2005 4:01 PM Subject: [CREEK-SOUTHEAST] Re: CREEK-SOUTHEAST-Black surname > > Hi, > > I am searching my Grandfathers side...I don't have much to go by...My > Grandfathers name was Richard Black...his fathers name was Walter Black > who married Idaho Thomas...now my uncle tells me we are Creek...but back > in the day when they put them on reservations, my family fled to the > mountains...and are not accounted for...I am thinking maybe someone is > from back in our family tree...My Grandfather taugh me Native American > ways, but would not talk about our Culture in front of anyone else...he > said he was Black Irish or Black Dutch...I know he was born in Tennessee > and his parents were born in North Carolina...the last name Black might be > a cut off of another name...does anyone have any info at all that might > help me??? Thanks, Melody > > > > --------------------------------- > Do you Yahoo!? > Yahoo! Search presents - Jib Jab's 'Second Term' > > > ==== CREEK-SOUTHEAST Mailing List ==== > Read a Creek book on line: Notes on the Creek, > http://www.accessgenealogy.com/native/creeknotes/ > > ============================== > Search Family and Local Histories for stories about your family and the > areas they lived. Over 85 million names added in the last 12 months. > Learn more: http://www.ancestry.com/s13966/rd.ashx > ______________________________ > ATTACHMENT part 4 message/rfc822 Date: Tue, 25 Jan 2005 19:20:03 EST From: Yuchimicco@aol.com To: CREEK-SOUTHEAST-L@rootsweb.com Subject: Chickamauga Band Folks, don't be shocked but the word Chickamauga is a Muskogean word, and the so-called Chickamauga Cherokees were actually the result of Chief Dragging Canoe leading a band of renegade Cherokees out of the mountains to settle at a Tuskegee (northern Creek) town on the Tennessee River near modern day Chattanooga. Not only that, but Chota, Tennessee the birthplace of Sequoyah, was originally a Tuskegee town. The Tuskegees (actually Tas-ke'-ke') were originally in the Little Tennessee River Valley just west of the Cherokees and Upper Tennessee Valley. They were thoroughly decimated by Spanish swords and diseases. Many of the survivors merged with the Cherokees and within a generation were speaking Tsa-la-gi. There were 2400 Creeks living the Cherokee Nation in Georgia in 1832. Especially, around Rome, and Cartersville, GA there were actually Creek villages happily settled beside Cherokee villages. Many of the Creeks scattered into the mountains prior to the Trail of Tears since they were not on the Cherokee Rolls. Tullahoma, Tennessee got its name for the Tuskegee name meaning "Red Town." If you have a Creek knot - a bony protrusion at the base of the skull above where the neck joins, then you have Muskogean ancesters. Oh, if we only had a time machine to go back and see what really happened 2-500 years ago! Richard ______________________________ > ATTACHMENT part 5 message/rfc822 Date: Tue, 25 Jan 2005 22:35:40 EST From: Yuchimicco@aol.com To: CREEK-SOUTHEAST-L@rootsweb.com Subject: Explanation of what "Muskogean" means Anthropologists define Muskogean as the language spoken by the majority of cultural groups in the Deep Southeast at the time of the European Contact. The name comes from the Muskogees who lived in the Chattahoochee River Valley, but later became the core of the People of One Fire, known to the English as the Creek Confederacy. Because the Muskogees were pretty much at the center of these chiefdoms, their language became the "trade language" that was used for communication between the groups. Many Muskogean chiefdoms disappeared or merged, but today the Muskogee (Creek), Choctaw, Chickasaw, Seminole, Alabama, Koasati, Houma, Ouchita and Caddo speak Muskogean dialects. Creek is a name that the English called the Muskogeans in Georgia and Alabama because their towns and village were usually near navagable streams. The majority of Native Americans in Georgia in 1700 actually spoke Hitchiti, not Muskogee. Hitchiti is a language that is roughly halfway between true Muskogee and Choctaw. Many Seminoles speak Hitchiti today. The Alabamas, Koasati and Tuskegee spoke a language that was even more similar to Choctaw. ______________________________ > ATTACHMENT part 6 message/rfc822 Date: Wed, 26 Jan 2005 07:54:05 -0700 From: "Jerry Cranford" To: CREEK-SOUTHEAST-L@rootsweb.com Subject: Re: [CREEK-SOUTHEAST] Chickamauga Band Richard; Thanks for your information. I understand that the word Cherokee is a Muskogean word as well, being roughly translated as "those who don't speak our language". Your point is well taken. My mothers people came from North Carolina and indeed did settle near Chattanooga. They didn't consider themselves renegades, however. They definitely could not abide living near whites and moved on to IT in the early 1830's. What you wrote re: the Creek and Cherokee and even the Choctaw is reflected in my Dad's stories. His grandmother who was born in the 1840's told him to never go west (I suppose she meant west of Oklahoma). Because, "bad" indians live there. Whatever that meant. I have always been happy about my heritage. Especially, the Creek side. Unfortunately, much of the culture was lost or melded into other cultures ie. Cherokee and Seminole. Some of my family went to south Alabama and just intermarried with the whites. Pretty typical, actually. Jerry ----- Original Message ----- From: To: Sent: Tuesday, January 25, 2005 5:20 PM Subject: [CREEK-SOUTHEAST] Chickamauga Band > Folks, don't be shocked but the word Chickamauga is a Muskogean word, > and > the so-called Chickamauga Cherokees were actually the result of Chief > Dragging > Canoe leading a band of renegade Cherokees out of the mountains to settle > at a > Tuskegee (northern Creek) town on the Tennessee River near modern day > Chattanooga. Not only that, but Chota, Tennessee the birthplace of > Sequoyah, was > originally a Tuskegee town. The Tuskegees (actually Tas-ke'-ke') were > originally in the Little Tennessee River Valley just west of the Cherokees > and > Upper Tennessee Valley. They were thoroughly decimated by Spanish swords > and > diseases. Many of the survivors merged with the Cherokees and within a > generation > were speaking Tsa-la-gi. > > There were 2400 Creeks living the Cherokee Nation in Georgia in 1832. > Especially, around Rome, and Cartersville, GA there were actually Creek > villages > happily settled beside Cherokee villages. Many of the Creeks scattered > into > the mountains prior to the Trail of Tears since they were not on the > Cherokee > Rolls. > > Tullahoma, Tennessee got its name for the Tuskegee name meaning "Red > Town." > > > If you have a Creek knot - a bony protrusion at the base of the skull > above > where the neck joins, then you have Muskogean ancesters. > > Oh, if we only had a time machine to go back and see what really happened > 2-500 years ago! > > Richard > > > > ==== CREEK-SOUTHEAST Mailing List ==== > To unsubscribe, send to CREEK-SOUTHEAST-L-request@rootsweb.com the one > word, UNSUBSCRIBE, in the BODY of the message. If you are subscribed to > the digest, send your unsubscrbe message to > CREEK-SOUTHEAST-D-request@rootsweb.com. Visit the Home page to learn more > http://www.accessgenealogy.com/native/mail/creekse.htm > > ============================== > Search the US Census Collection. Over 140 million records added in the > last 12 months. Largest online collection in the world. Learn more: > http://www.ancestry.com/s13965/rd.ashx > --------------------------------- Do you Yahoo!? Read only the mail you want - Yahoo! Mail SpamGuard.

Richard; Thanks for your information. I understand that the word Cherokee is a Muskogean word as well, being roughly translated as "those who don't speak our language". Your point is well taken. My mothers people came from North Carolina and indeed did settle near Chattanooga. They didn't consider themselves renegades, however. They definitely could not abide living near whites and moved on to IT in the early 1830's. What you wrote re: the Creek and Cherokee and even the Choctaw is reflected in my Dad's stories. His grandmother who was born in the 1840's told him to never go west (I suppose she meant west of Oklahoma). Because, "bad" indians live there. Whatever that meant. I have always been happy about my heritage. Especially, the Creek side. Unfortunately, much of the culture was lost or melded into other cultures ie. Cherokee and Seminole. Some of my family went to south Alabama and just intermarried with the whites. Pretty typical, actually. Jerry ----- Original Message ----- From: <Yuchimicco@aol.com> To: <CREEK-SOUTHEAST-L@rootsweb.com> Sent: Tuesday, January 25, 2005 5:20 PM Subject: [CREEK-SOUTHEAST] Chickamauga Band > Folks, don't be shocked but the word Chickamauga is a Muskogean word, > and > the so-called Chickamauga Cherokees were actually the result of Chief > Dragging > Canoe leading a band of renegade Cherokees out of the mountains to settle > at a > Tuskegee (northern Creek) town on the Tennessee River near modern day > Chattanooga. Not only that, but Chota, Tennessee the birthplace of > Sequoyah, was > originally a Tuskegee town. The Tuskegees (actually Tas-ke'-ke') were > originally in the Little Tennessee River Valley just west of the Cherokees > and > Upper Tennessee Valley. They were thoroughly decimated by Spanish swords > and > diseases. Many of the survivors merged with the Cherokees and within a > generation > were speaking Tsa-la-gi. > > There were 2400 Creeks living the Cherokee Nation in Georgia in 1832. > Especially, around Rome, and Cartersville, GA there were actually Creek > villages > happily settled beside Cherokee villages. Many of the Creeks scattered > into > the mountains prior to the Trail of Tears since they were not on the > Cherokee > Rolls. > > Tullahoma, Tennessee got its name for the Tuskegee name meaning "Red > Town." > > > If you have a Creek knot - a bony protrusion at the base of the skull > above > where the neck joins, then you have Muskogean ancesters. > > Oh, if we only had a time machine to go back and see what really happened > 2-500 years ago! > > Richard > > > > ==== CREEK-SOUTHEAST Mailing List ==== > To unsubscribe, send to CREEK-SOUTHEAST-L-request@rootsweb.com the one > word, UNSUBSCRIBE, in the BODY of the message. If you are subscribed to > the digest, send your unsubscrbe message to > CREEK-SOUTHEAST-D-request@rootsweb.com. Visit the Home page to learn more > http://www.accessgenealogy.com/native/mail/creekse.htm > > ============================== > Search the US Census Collection. Over 140 million records added in the > last 12 months. Largest online collection in the world. Learn more: > http://www.ancestry.com/s13965/rd.ashx >

Anthropologists define Muskogean as the language spoken by the majority of cultural groups in the Deep Southeast at the time of the European Contact.  The name comes from the Muskogees who lived in the Chattahoochee River Valley,  but later became the core of the People of One Fire,  known to the English as the Creek Confederacy.  Because the Muskogees were pretty much at the center of these chiefdoms,  their language became the "trade language" that was used for communication between the groups.   Many Muskogean chiefdoms disappeared or merged,  but today the Muskogee (Creek),  Choctaw,  Chickasaw,  Seminole,  Alabama, Koasati,  Houma,  Ouchita and Caddo speak Muskogean dialects.  Creek is a name that the English called the Muskogeans in Georgia and Alabama because their towns and village were usually near navagable streams.  The majority of Native Americans in Georgia in 1700 actually spoke Hitchiti,  not Muskogee.  Hitchiti is a language that is roughly halfway between true Muskogee and Choctaw.  Many Seminoles speak Hitchiti today.    The Alabamas,  Koasati and Tuskegee spoke a language that was even more similar to Choctaw.

Folks, don't be shocked but the word Chickamauga is a Muskogean word, and the so-called Chickamauga Cherokees were actually the result of Chief Dragging Canoe leading a band of renegade Cherokees out of the mountains to settle at a Tuskegee (northern Creek) town on the Tennessee River near modern day Chattanooga. Not only that, but Chota, Tennessee the birthplace of Sequoyah, was originally a Tuskegee town. The Tuskegees (actually Tas-ke'-ke') were originally in the Little Tennessee River Valley just west of the Cherokees and Upper Tennessee Valley. They were thoroughly decimated by Spanish swords and diseases. Many of the survivors merged with the Cherokees and within a generation were speaking Tsa-la-gi. There were 2400 Creeks living the Cherokee Nation in Georgia in 1832. Especially, around Rome, and Cartersville, GA there were actually Creek villages happily settled beside Cherokee villages. Many of the Creeks scattered into the mountains prior to the Trail of Tears since they were not on the Cherokee Rolls. Tullahoma, Tennessee got its name for the Tuskegee name meaning "Red Town." If you have a Creek knot - a bony protrusion at the base of the skull above where the neck joins, then you have Muskogean ancesters. Oh, if we only had a time machine to go back and see what really happened 2-500 years ago! Richard