I am still working on the puzzle. A John Ingram is registered for US Army having been born in Hawkins Walker county Georgia was this a Creek area . It is south of Layfette and Chickamauga. I think my Hunt line may have been Lumbee. Can any one tell me where I can find names of the Lumbee and is it still a tribe? Thank You all so much Carol Reed Sircoulomb

The last half of the Index of Campbell's Abstract of Creek Freedman Census Cards is now up. http://www.accessgenealogy.com/african/freedman/ You can also view the Index of Campbell's Abstract of Creek Indian Cansus Cards here http://www.accessgenealogy.com/native/creek/ While compiling these records I was amazied at the numbers I found that were the same in completely different parts of the Abstract. I truley believe with a little time, you will be able to make connections to lost ancestors. You can do a search from the page, but instead of a name you put in the number and it will bring up all listings for that number. You will have to look through the list on the page that comes up, but I don't think that should be difficult as on most pages there are less than 150 names.I should also tell you that the book in many places was very hard to read so 1, 3, 5, 8 can often be confused. Thanks Judy

This is a Message Board Post that is gatewayed to this mailing list. Author: amikepappas Surnames: Hall, Bird/Byrd, Martin, McNealy Classification: queries Message Board URL: http://boards.rootsweb.com/localities.northam.usa.special.secreeks/3015/mb.ashx Message Board Post: Hattie and Mattie were born to Sally Bird-Martin and Francis Marion Martin. After Francis Marion Martin died, Sally re-married a McNealy brother to Adam MCNealy and plantation owner. Grover C Hall is my g-great uncle and a brother to Georgia L Hall (b 1877) Georgia L Hall married Francis Osceola Martin (b.1878) Francis Osceola Martin was a brother of Hattie and Mattie. Up until the time of their death, both Hattie and Mattie feared anyone discovering our Native American heritage. Sally's sisters were Margaret Alice Byrd-Marsh, Kate Bird-Baxter, brother William Osceola Bird and more siblings. The following cemetary information on the old Cypress Baptist Church in Jackson County FL lists where some of these relatives are buried near each other...If anyone has more information, please help. I have more information on some of the Halls. Hattie L COMERFORD 18 Jan 1870 - 15 Nov 1954 Mattie MARTIN DAVIS 22 Aug 1876 - 4 Dec 1952 Sally MARTIN McNealy 28 Mar 1850 - 1 Apr 1931 Grover C Hall 8 June 1884 - 6 Dec 1956 Pearl Hall COMERFORD 26 Sept 1902 - 17 Jan 1991 James T (Jim) COMERFORD 1884 - 1962 Important Note: The author of this message may not be subscribed to this list. If you would like to reply to them, please click on the Message Board URL link above and respond on the board.

Very interesting...TT in SC. ----- Original Message ----- From: <[email protected]> To: <[email protected]> Sent: Friday, July 25, 2008 5:21 PM Subject: [CREEK-SOUTHEAST] More proof of substantial Creek presence in SouthCarolina > For those of you trying to prove Creek ancestry in South Carolina, I > have > found more proof. > > There is a modern day town named Tamassee, SC on the Keowee River near > Seneca. It is very close to the North Carolina line - an area that all > "official" > maps state was always Cherokee. Of course, South Caroina historians > state > the name is an old Cherokee word whose meaning has been lost. However, > the > word is pure Hitchiti Creek, and also occurs in Tennessee and Alabama. > It > means "Child of Tama" or "Little Tama" The ssee suffix was added to > Hitchiti > and Koasati towns, who were colonies of mother towns. For example > Talassee was > a colony of Tali in Tennessee. > > The significance of this name is that Tama was an important capital town > on > the upper Altamaha River in South Georgia. That means that in fairly > early > times, Tamatli villages were not only located in Western North Carolina, > but > also northwestern South Carolina. In fact, many books even show NW South > Carolina as being occupied by Cherokees when de Soto came through in > 1542. > > Basically, I am saying, that if you trace an ancestor, who you think was > Creek, to almost any part of South Carolina except the Catawba area south > of > Charlotte, NC, or the solidly Siouan regions of NE South Carolina, the > chances > are that they were indeed Muskogean. > > Richard T. > > > > > > **************Get fantasy football with free live scoring. Sign up for > FanHouse Fantasy Football today. > (http://www.fanhouse.com/fantasyaffair?ncid=aolspr00050000000020) > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without > the quotes in the subject and the body of the message >

This is a Message Board Post that is gatewayed to this mailing list. Author: esleslie Surnames: STIGGINS/SIZEMORE Classification: queries Message Board URL: http://boards.rootsweb.com/localities.northam.usa.special.secreeks/3014/mb.ashx Message Board Post: I ran across some information regarding descendants of Joseph STIGGINS and Haw GREY connected to the above surnames. Is anyone researching those families? They apparently were in Mississippi, went to Texas and then made application in the late 1890's at South McAlester, Indian Territory, to enroll in the Choctaw Nation. Please email me at [email protected] if you have any information on these lines, and I will be happy to share what I have on them. Regards, Evelyn Important Note: The author of this message may not be subscribed to this list. If you would like to reply to them, please click on the Message Board URL link above and respond on the board.

For those of you trying to prove Creek ancestry in South Carolina, I have found more proof. There is a modern day town named Tamassee, SC on the Keowee River near Seneca. It is very close to the North Carolina line - an area that all "official" maps state was always Cherokee. Of course, South Caroina historians state the name is an old Cherokee word whose meaning has been lost. However, the word is pure Hitchiti Creek, and also occurs in Tennessee and Alabama. It means "Child of Tama" or "Little Tama" The ssee suffix was added to Hitchiti and Koasati towns, who were colonies of mother towns. For example Talassee was a colony of Tali in Tennessee. The significance of this name is that Tama was an important capital town on the upper Altamaha River in South Georgia. That means that in fairly early times, Tamatli villages were not only located in Western North Carolina, but also northwestern South Carolina. In fact, many books even show NW South Carolina as being occupied by Cherokees when de Soto came through in 1542. Basically, I am saying, that if you trace an ancestor, who you think was Creek, to almost any part of South Carolina except the Catawba area south of Charlotte, NC, or the solidly Siouan regions of NE South Carolina, the chances are that they were indeed Muskogean. Richard T. **************Get fantasy football with free live scoring. Sign up for FanHouse Fantasy Football today. (http://www.fanhouse.com/fantasyaffair?ncid=aolspr00050000000020)

I think someone on this list said that sometimes a Creek person would apply to, for example, a Cherokee roll, just to try to get on SOME roll; is this correct? I found Mrs. Charles Weatherford on a Guion Miller Cherokee roll, and surely she was Creek !

A large number of Creeks applied for the Guion Miller Roll of Eastern Cherokee. Jackie Gordon made an Excell file of them. Judy, do you have a place we could post that file? I might have already sent it to you but can do so again. Kathie ----- Original Message ----- From: [email protected] To: [email protected] Cc: [email protected] Sent: Friday, July 25, 2008 10:19 AM Subject: Re: [CREEK-SOUTHEAST] Guion Miller Roll I think someone on this list said that sometimes a Creek person would apply to, for example, a Cherokee roll, just to try to get on SOME roll; is this correct? I found Mrs. Charles Weatherford on a Guion Miller Cherokee roll, and surely she was Creek ! ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message

There are (usually) TWO files for each person in the Dawes Rolls with a regular roll number and card number. Those two files are the (1) application - where the examiners asked questions and put letters to and from the applicant as well as birth, marriage and death certificates and other business, and (2) the enrollment card - the reward for each Indian having negotiated the application process successfully (although some were stricken off after having gotten enrolled due to new rules and changes). You will want to get both files and I'm not sure where Footnote is in putting up both series. I will be writing about these records on the new Creek Research Page which will start as soon as I can get my car out of the shop and back on the road...... The Creek and Chickasaw records in the Dawes Rolls are the two most frustrating, difficult, and, often, incomplete. You might find an application but no card and vice versa....and there are a bunch of numbers that are just plain not there. It must have been fatiguing to write and copy and type and file all that stuff....even for bureaucrats. Aren't we glad, though, that they were so fussy? The Dawes Rolls and Guion Miller Roll applications are the best of any of the non-treaty tribes in the US. We are sooooo lucky to have them. K. ----- Original Message ----- From: Judy White To: [email protected] Sent: Friday, July 25, 2008 8:25 AM Subject: Re: [CREEK-SOUTHEAST] Index to Campbell's Abstract of Creek Freedman Lynn asked a good question, if you go here http://www.accessgenealogy.com/native/dawes.php and put in the name or number for the person you are searching for, a box will come up on the page after you make the search. It will tell you if this packet has been scanned. If the person is listed you can get a general idea if this is the person you are searching for or not. You do not have to purchase a years subscription to view or download these files, you can buy a monthly, which is something around $7. Which is still much cheaper than ordering from the National Archives, besides you also get the file immediately. We teamed up with FootNote to be able to provide this service to our readers. Because of the amount of records, there is no way we could have done this on our own. Judy

Hi Judy, If I wanted to get hold of one of these cards how do I go about it? Thanks, Lynn -------Original Message------- From: Judy White Date: 7/24/2008 5:18:21 PM To: [email protected] Subject: Re: [CREEK-SOUTHEAST] Index to Campbell's Abstract of Creek Freedman So far I half of Campbell's Abstract of Creek Freedman Census Cards http://www.accessgenealogy.com/african/freedman/ Hope to have the rest up Tomorrow, depending on other things I have to work on. Please share the URL with anyone you think would be interested. Thanks Judy

Lynn asked a good question, if you go here http://www.accessgenealogy.com/native/dawes.php and put in the name or number for the person you are searching for, a box will come up on the page after you make the search. It will tell you if this packet has been scanned. If the person is listed you can get a general idea if this is the person you are searching for or not. You do not have to purchase a years subscription to view or download these files, you can buy a monthly, which is something around $7. Which is still much cheaper than ordering from the National Archives, besides you also get the file immediately. We teamed up with FootNote to be able to provide this service to our readers. Because of the amount of records, there is no way we could have done this on our own. Judy On Fri, Jul 25, 2008 at 6:34 AM, Lynn <[email protected]> wrote: > Hi Judy, > > If I wanted to get hold of one of these cards how do I go about it? > > Thanks, > Lynn > > -------Original Message------- > > From: Judy White > Date: 7/24/2008 5:18:21 PM > To: [email protected] > Subject: Re: [CREEK-SOUTHEAST] Index to Campbell's Abstract of Creek > Freedman > > So far I half of Campbell's Abstract of Creek Freedman Census Cards > http://www.accessgenealogy.com/african/freedman/ Hope to have the rest up > Tomorrow, depending on other things I have to work on. > > Please share the URL with anyone you think would be interested. > > Thanks > Judy > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without > the quotes in the subject and the body of the message >

Well, all I have is the Hastie-Thompson book and the Eggleston book. I'm showing Sehoy, who was a Muskogee QUEEN of the Wind Clan (I'm assuming full blood), who married the principal chief of the Alibamu town of Taskigee., establishing the seat of the Wind Clan among the people of Alibamu lineage. She had Sehoy I, PRINCESS of the Wind Clan, (full blood) b 1702 Taskigi Town AL who married 1) Jean Baptiste Louis, Captain Marchand, white Frenchman and they had Princess Sehoy II, "Hatali", Sehoy Marchand (1/2 blood) Muskogee, b 1721-22 Little Tulsa (Talisi, Tallasee)AL d. 1785, buried John Tate's home married 1757 (3) "Eagle Wings", Chief of Tuckabatchee Town, and they had Princess Sehoy III (3/4 blood), b. ca 1759 at Taskigi (old Fort Toulouse OR at Little Talisi, Elmore, AL d. ca. 1811-12 buried on David Tate's "brickyard plantation" who, living at Hickory Ground in the home that 2) John Tate had built for her, married 1780 Baldwin Co 3) Charles Weatherford, English trader, b. 1752, Lunenberg, VA, (1/4 blood), son of Martin Weatherford English (white) and "Mary Half-Blood", from VA. Charles came into the Creek Nation in 1778; he and his father were pro-Tory during the Revolutionary War. They lost their lands in Georgia and were banished when the War was over. who had William Weatherford, "Chief Red Eagle" (1/2 blood), b. 1780, Hickory Ground, d. 1824, after contracting pneumonia on a hunting trip, Baldwin Co, AL NOTE: both Eggleston and Hastie-Thompson state that William was 1/2 Indian blood. I welcome corrections and additional information. I am trying to prove my ancestor's connection Richard, b. 1781, son of Martin (white) and his second wife, Isabella (white). I wouldn't be Creek, but I WOULD be related to Red Eagle ! gmw

So far I half of Campbell's Abstract of Creek Freedman Census Cards http://www.accessgenealogy.com/african/freedman/ Hope to have the rest up tomorrow, depending on other things I have to work on. Please share the URL with anyone you think would be interested. Thanks Judy

> I think I have figured out the origin of Tobesofkee near Macon. Richard, Your guess is as good as anyone else's. The name has been written so many ways. It might not have even had any connection to "sofkee" at all. Bartram called it "Tobosachte". However, in 1790 Hawkins spelled it "Tobosaufkee", "Tobe saufe ke", and "Tobesauke". Paul

> would a spoon for stirring vpvske be vtapv? Exactly. Paul Hornsby

Paul, I think I have figured out the origin of Tobesofkee near Macon. A topv (topaw) was a hospitality shed, where travelers, guests and hunters could grab warm food 24/7. Essentially it was the Creek equivalent of a free fast food restaurant. Of course, you know what sofkee is - a common food served at the topv I theorize that Topw - sofkee became Tobawsofkee to English ears and eventually via Southern slang became Tobesofkee. Makes sense? Richard T. **************Get fantasy football with free live scoring. Sign up for FanHouse Fantasy Football today. (http://www.fanhouse.com/fantasyaffair?ncid=aolspr00050000000020)

Hi Everyone, There is so much good information coming through on this list that just doesn't get brought out anyplace else. I find myself often saving up posts and reading back over them again and again, especially ones that I particulaerly like and find especially precious. Is there an archive anywhere of the entire list? If not, does anyone mind if I print them out and save them? I wouldn't distribute them to anybody, but I feel that we should have this information in hard copy somewhere. By the way, I'm an archivist and librarian by profession, so tend to be pretty good about respecting confidentiality. Thanks, Deborah On Thu, 24 Jul 2008 11:48:35 -0400, songmaker2 wrote > > I knew, unlike the learned professors, that there is > > no B in Muskogee! > > Richard, > Wait now. In written Muskokee, the "p" sounds like > the English "b". Actually, somewhere in between. I've > always wondered why the missionaries even wrote the "p" > if it sounded like a "b". > > > However, Itaba is the Alabama word for a border crossing. The Alabama's > do > > have the B sound - > > Here is also food for thought. The Muskokee word for > dogwood is "vtvphv" (pronounced sort of like "adab-ha", > keep in mind that the "p's" sound like "b's". As you know, > the "v" is pronounced somewhere between the English "a" or "u", in "but". > Also, there is a word for a "sofkee spoon". I can't find the exact > spelling, but in my "phoenic Creek" its something > like "vtapa" (pronounced "adaba") > However, none of this refutes your theory on Etowah. > Paul Hornsby > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to CREEK- > [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without > the quotes in the subject and the body of the message --

-----Original Message----- >From: [email protected] [email protected] >Sent: Jul 23, 2008 9:29 PM >To: [email protected] >Subject: Re: [CREEK-SOUTHEAST] ? >I have been Spain, Barcelona to be exact. The people were darker than the europeans as in Germany or france. Lots of Gypsies too. Barcelona natives speak a catalonian dialect. As a fullblood creek I seem to blend in with the locals quite well. I had to tell them I was an Indian from America and they were my friend for the entire stay. Some were sceptical because the thought Indians were all killed off by the white christian folks. Quite an experience. > > > > >----- Original Message ----- >From: "Steve Sokol" <[email protected]> >To: <[email protected]>; <[email protected]> >Sent: Wednesday, July 23, 2008 9:46 PM >Subject: Re: [CREEK-SOUTHEAST] Mulattoes in Alabama, were they Creek Indians >? > > >> Spaniards are not white? >> >> How about Portuguese, French, German, Russian, Turks. Where do you >> draw the line. >> >> Are you maybe talking about native Central Americans?? There are two >> very distinct Spanish languages: American and European. >> >> However, Spanish is those people who are native of Spain. >> >> Have I missed something??? >> >> S >> >> >> >> At 09:06 PM 7/23/2008, you wrote: >> >>>This is a Message Board Post that is gatewayed to this mailing list. >>> >>>Author: amikepappas >>>Surnames: Bird, Martin, Hall >>>Classification: queries >>> >>>Message Board URL: >>> >>>http://boards.rootsweb.com/localities.northam.usa.special.secreeks/808.1.1.2.1/mb.ashx >>> >>>Message Board Post: >>> >>>If you notice, there were no Spaniards on any of the early census. >>>The only 'color' of people that the census takers could mark on the >>>census was 'black', 'white' or 'mulatto'. The census takers could >>>not tell the diference between the Spanish and the Creeks, so if >>>asked, the Creeks claimed that they were Spanish. The Creeks who >>>passed themselves off as Spanish were olive-dark complexion. >>> >>>Important Note: >>>The author of this message may not be subscribed to this list. If >>>you would like to reply to them, please click on the Message Board >>>URL link above and respond on the board. >>> >>> >>> >>> >>>------------------------------- >>>To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to >>>[email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' >>>without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message >>> >>> >>> >>>-- >>>No virus found in this incoming message. >>>Checked by AVG. >>>Version: 7.5.526 / Virus Database: 270.5.4/1567 - Release Date: >>>7/22/2008 4:05 PM >> >> >> -- >> No virus found in this outgoing message. >> Checked by AVG. >> Version: 7.5.526 / Virus Database: 270.5.4/1567 - Release Date: 7/22/2008 >> 4:05 PM >> >> >> >> ------------------------------- >> To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to >> [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without >> the quotes in the subject and the body of the message >> > > > >------------------------------- >To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message

Wow--so are you saying that you don't think de Soto actually saw the Etowah Mound at all, because it was kept a secret? What happened in 2000, Richard T? Have you written about it? All of our genealogical work and your archeological work is like a huge detective story or treasure hunt--I love it ! gmw

would a spoon for stirring vpvske be vtapv? ----- Original Message ----- From: "songmaker2" <[email protected]> > Also, there is a word for a "sofkee spoon". I can't find the exact > spelling, but in my "phoenic Creek" its something > like "vtapa" (pronounced "adaba") > However, none of this refutes your theory on Etowah. > Paul Hornsby > > >