A while back I came across a photo on the internet of Jimey Holloway (1832 Creek Census), who we believe to be our relative. I recently did a search and was unable to locate the photo again. Does anyone know were to find his photo and hopefully more info on him? A big Mvto!

Thirteenth census - Indian population Monroe County, Alabama Ward or Beat: 6 & 12 enumeration district: 118 and Precinct 1, Mt. Pleasant dwelling # - 5 Family #- 5 Chares S Dees - Head of household- Male- Indian- 39 years old- married 8 years- birth place- Al.- M Mother birthplace- Al. - Fathers birthplace- Al )ccupation- Farmer Tribe- Creek Father Tribe- Creek Mother Tribe- Creek Indian Blood- 3/8 White Blood- 5/8 ==== Pearline - Wife Indian 21 years old married- 8 years # children- 2 # children living- 2 birthplace- Al Mothers birthplace - Al Fathers birthplace- Al Tribe- white/Creek Fathers Tribe- White Mother Tribe- Creek amt. Indian blood- 1/32 amt. white blood- 31/32 === Ruby T- daughter Indian age: 4 pob- Al Creek blood- 1/4 white blood-- 3/4 === PPurlie- daughter Indian age: 3 pob- Al Creek blood- 1/4 white bloos- 3/4 ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Dwelling # 20 Family # 21 Dees, William Headof household Indian age: 70 widow pob- Al Mother pob- Al Father pob- Al occupation- none Tribe- Creek Fathers Tribe- Creek Mothers Tribe - Creek amt. Indian Blood- 1/2 amt. white blood- 1/2 === June Dees daughter age: 34 single pob- al Mother pob- AL occupation- farmer Tribe- Creek Fathers Tribe- Creek Mothers Tribe- white Amt. Indian blood- 1/8amt. white blood- 7/8 === Vicey E. Dees daughter Indian age- 32 single pob- Al occupation- farmer Tribe- Creek Fathers tribe- Creek Mothers Tribe- white amt Indian blood- 1/8 amt. white bloos- 7/8 === Henry Dees son age: 23 Indian pob- Al occupation- farmer Triobe- Creek Fathers Tribe- Creek Mothers Tribe- white amt. Indian blood- 1/8 amt. white blood- 7/8 =============================================== MonroeCounty, Alabama Jeddo District Dwelling # 1 Family # 1 Deese, Thomas H Head of household Indian age: 67 Married ( 2nd ) pob- Al Mothers pob- Ga. Fathjers pob- Al occupation- Farmer Tribe- Choctaw Father Tribe- Choctaw Mothers Tribe- Choctaw amt. Indian blood- 3/4 amt. white blood 1/4 === Deese, Alva R wife Indian age: 17 children- 0 pob- Al Fathers pob- Al Mothers pob- Al occupation- none tribe- Choctaw Fathers Tribe- Choctaw Mothers Tribe- Choctaw amt Indian blood- 1/4 amt. White blood- 3/4 === Deese, Willie T son Indian age: 42 single pob- Al Mother pob- Al Fathers pob Occupation : Merchant- gen. Store Tribe- Choctaw Fathers Tribe- choctaw Mothes Tribe- Choctaw amt. Indian blood- 3/4 amt. white blood- 1/4 ===

I was looking for the book and suddenly realized that the story takes place about 35 miles down the road from me in Seguin,Gonzales County, Texas. Here is a link to some of the sites mentioned in the book. If any of you make it to the San Antonio area and would like to drive out and visit the sites firsthand, let me know. I'd be glad to be tour guide around Seguin.   http://www.seguin.net/truwomen.html   Kindest Regards, Glenn --- On Thu, 7/31/08, [email protected] <[email protected]> wrote: From: [email protected] <[email protected]> Subject: Re: [CREEK-SOUTHEAST] Author of the book, True Women To: [email protected] Date: Thursday, July 31, 2008, 10:25 AM thank you. Joan ----- Original Message ----- From: <[email protected]> To: <[email protected]> Sent: Tuesday, July 29, 2008 1:10 PM Subject: [CREEK-SOUTHEAST] Author of the book, True Women > The author of "True Women" is Janice Woods Windle. > > The woman on the cover of the book is the Creek grand-daughter of Benjamin > Hawkins, who was played by Angeline Jolet in the movie. > > The book retails for $7.99 > > > Janice Woods Windle is a Texas author. Windle was born in _Seguin, Texas_ > (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Seguin,_Texas) and currently lives in _El Paso, > Texas_ (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/El_Paso,_Texas) . > Windle's first two novels, _True Women_ > (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/True_Women) and Hill Country and her first published work, the True Women Cookbook, > all became best sellers[_citation needed_ > (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Citation_needed) ] and are based on extensive research into Windle's > ancestors. > _True Women_ (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/True_Women) , Windle's second > novel, revealed the stories of Texas women who were caught up in the passions of > war and revolution. _True Women_ (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/True_Women) > was published in eight different languages and also became the basis for a CBS > miniseries starring _Angelina Jolie_ > (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Angelina_Jolie) , _Dana Delaney_ (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dana_Delaney) , and > _Annabeth Gish_ (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Annabeth_Gish) . > Windle's latest novel is _Will's War_ (http://www.jwwbooks.com/books.html) , > based on the life of her grandfather. > Windle attended the _University of Texas_ > (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/University_of_Texas) where she was a member of _Alpha Phi_ > (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alpha_Phi) sorority.[_citation needed_ > (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Citation_needed) ] She has earned many academic honors including > _Mortar Board_ (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mortar_Board) and the _American > Association of University Women_ > (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/American_Association_of_University_Women) 's "Woman of the Year." She is also a Father of > Texas Awards recipient and the Texas Legislature passed a bill commending her > on her superb contributions to the citizens of Texas. > > > Richard T. > > > > **************Get fantasy football with free live scoring. Sign up for > FanHouse Fantasy Football today. > (http://www.fanhouse.com/fantasyaffair?ncid=aolspr00050000000020) > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message

Hi! Just read your email. I also am related to theSehoys and the Weatherfords and I am also Creek. Anybody have any more good info? JB ----- Original Message ----- From: <[email protected]> To: <[email protected]> Cc: <[email protected]> Sent: Thursday, July 24, 2008 7:34 PM Subject: Re: [CREEK-SOUTHEAST] Sehoys and Weatherfords > Well, all I have is the Hastie-Thompson book and the Eggleston book. > > I'm showing Sehoy, who was a Muskogee QUEEN of the Wind Clan (I'm > assuming full blood), who married > > the principal chief of the Alibamu town of Taskigee., establishing the > seat of the Wind Clan among the people of Alibamu lineage. > > She had Sehoy I, PRINCESS of the Wind Clan, (full blood) b 1702 Taskigi > Town AL > > who married > > 1) Jean Baptiste Louis, Captain Marchand, white Frenchman > > and they had > > Princess Sehoy II, "Hatali", Sehoy Marchand > (1/2 blood) Muskogee, > b 1721-22 Little Tulsa (Talisi, Tallasee)AL > d. 1785, buried John Tate's home > > married 1757 > (3) "Eagle Wings", Chief of Tuckabatchee Town, and they had > > Princess Sehoy III (3/4 blood), > b. ca 1759 at Taskigi (old Fort Toulouse > OR at Little Talisi, Elmore, AL > d. ca. 1811-12 > buried on David Tate's "brickyard plantation" > > who, living at Hickory Ground in the home that 2) John Tate had built > for her, married 1780 Baldwin Co > > 3) Charles Weatherford, English trader, b. 1752, Lunenberg, VA, (1/4 > blood), son of Martin Weatherford English (white) and "Mary Half-Blood", > from VA. Charles came into the Creek Nation in 1778; he and his father > were pro-Tory during the Revolutionary War. They lost their lands in > Georgia and were banished when the War was over. > > who had > > William Weatherford, "Chief Red Eagle" > (1/2 blood), b. 1780, Hickory Ground, > d. 1824, after contracting pneumonia on a hunting trip, Baldwin Co, AL > > NOTE: both Eggleston and Hastie-Thompson state that William was 1/2 > Indian blood. > > I welcome corrections and additional information. I am trying to prove > my ancestor's connection Richard, b. 1781, son of Martin (white) and his > second wife, Isabella (white). I wouldn't be Creek, but I WOULD be > related to Red Eagle ! > > gmw > > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without > the quotes in the subject and the body of the message >

This is a Message Board Post that is gatewayed to this mailing list. Author: lindacalhoun1948 Surnames: Smiths,Edgcumbi, Edgcumbe,Cannon,Morgan,Elsperman,Brown,Villaneuve,Gates, Hayes,Josephs, Carter, Southern, McCay,Atwell, Davis and more Classification: queries Message Board URL: http://boards.rootsweb.com/localities.northam.usa.special.secreeks/75.87.682.3/mb.ashx Message Board Post: Hi Calvin, Im familiar with The Poarch Creek. They tried to Enroll my Grand_mother and she would not take a number, she was really superstitious. Anyway I have a Public Tree and we are from Creek, Musckogee Creek, and Further back the Yutsi. Im trying to get my mother on the rolls now. I have all the info but as you well know they want birth records and they did not keep them back then. Some of the McGhee's changed there names back to the grandmothers maiden name and did not tell anyone. That name was Martin. Check my Tree out. I have a lot on The Seminoles,Yutsi,Creek,and Musckogee Creek. There are a lot of pics on there too. Make yourself at home. Important Note: The author of this message may not be subscribed to this list. If you would like to reply to them, please click on the Message Board URL link above and respond on the board.

This is a Message Board Post that is gatewayed to this mailing list. Author: lindacalhoun1948 Surnames: Smiths,Edgcumbi, Edgcumbe,Cannon,Morgan,Elsperman,Brown,Villaneuve,Gates, Hayes,Josephs, Carter, Southern, McCay,Atwell, Davis and more Classification: queries Message Board URL: http://boards.rootsweb.com/localities.northam.usa.special.secreeks/75.87.682.2/mb.ashx Message Board Post: Hi Calvin, Im familiar with The Poarch Creek. They tried to Enroll my Grand_mother and she would not take a number, she was really superstitious. Anyway I have a Public Tree and we are from Creek, Musckogee Creek, and Further back the Yutsi. Im trying to get my mother on the rolls now. I have all the info but as you well know they want birth records and they did not keep them back then. Some of the McGhee's changed there names back to the grandmothers maiden name and did not tell anyone. That name was Martin. Check my Tree out. I have a lot on The Seminoles,Yutsi,Creek,and Musckogee Creek. There are a lot of pics on there too. Make yourself at home. Important Note: The author of this message may not be subscribed to this list. If you would like to reply to them, please click on the Message Board URL link above and respond on the board.

The author of "True Women" is Janice Woods Windle. The woman on the cover of the book is the Creek grand-daughter of Benjamin Hawkins, who was played by Angeline Jolet in the movie. The book retails for $7.99 Janice Woods Windle is a Texas author. Windle was born in _Seguin, Texas_ (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Seguin,_Texas) and currently lives in _El Paso, Texas_ (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/El_Paso,_Texas) . Windle's first two novels, _True Women_ (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/True_Women) and Hill Country and her first published work, the True Women Cookbook, all became best sellers[_citation needed_ (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Citation_needed) ] and are based on extensive research into Windle's ancestors. _True Women_ (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/True_Women) , Windle's second novel, revealed the stories of Texas women who were caught up in the passions of war and revolution. _True Women_ (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/True_Women) was published in eight different languages and also became the basis for a CBS miniseries starring _Angelina Jolie_ (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Angelina_Jolie) , _Dana Delaney_ (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dana_Delaney) , and _Annabeth Gish_ (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Annabeth_Gish) . Windle's latest novel is _Will's War_ (http://www.jwwbooks.com/books.html) , based on the life of her grandfather. Windle attended the _University of Texas_ (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/University_of_Texas) where she was a member of _Alpha Phi_ (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alpha_Phi) sorority.[_citation needed_ (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Citation_needed) ] She has earned many academic honors including _Mortar Board_ (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mortar_Board) and the _American Association of University Women_ (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/American_Association_of_University_Women) 's "Woman of the Year." She is also a Father of Texas Awards recipient and the Texas Legislature passed a bill commending her on her superb contributions to the citizens of Texas. Richard T. **************Get fantasy football with free live scoring. Sign up for FanHouse Fantasy Football today. (http://www.fanhouse.com/fantasyaffair?ncid=aolspr00050000000020)

Could you tell me the author of "True Women" ? thanks, Joan ----- Original Message ----- From: <[email protected]> To: <[email protected]> Sent: Tuesday, July 22, 2008 6:49 PM Subject: Re: [CREEK-SOUTHEAST] Coushetta & Texas immigrants > I purchased the new DVD "True Women" on Ebay last year and found the book in > the local library. Be sure you are getting "True Women" not "True Woman" on > Ebay. > > Jean > > > > **************Get fantasy football with free live scoring. Sign up for > FanHouse Fantasy Football today. > (http://www.fanhouse.com/fantasyaffair?ncid=aolspr00050000000020) > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message

The present state of Alabama was part of the Mississippi Territory formed in 1798 except for the Gulf portion which was still claimed by the Spanish at that time. Georgia disputed a portion of the Mississippi Territory until 1802, when they relinquished all their claims beyond their present state boundary. Mississippi became a state in 1817, and the portion of Mississippi Territory that is now Alabama became Alabama Territory at that time (1817) until Alabama was recognized as a state in 1819. This map might help: http://www.tngenweb.org/maps/ms-terr.html For genealogists researching their Creek families in Alabama, records from 1798 to 1817 are generally found under Mississippi Territory records. Hope this helps with associating families with timeframes. Evelyn

OKAY Brother Richard from the monastery in Talking Rock, Jawja will set you straight. In 1542 the capital of the Kusaw people was in a large town at the edge of the Cohutta Mountains between modern day Jasper and Chatsworth. I live in Jasper, GA. It controlled a region stretching about 400 miles across from Knoxville to Birmingham. When the Spanish passed through Kusa Talwamikko, they left behind bacteria and viruses, which eventually killed off about 90-95% of their population. The survivors thought the land was cursed, and so they moved down stream on the Coosa River and re-established towns. The Kusaw looked different than the Muskogee, Apalachicola and Hitchiti Creeks. They still do. When the Kusaw were based in Georgia, most of Alabama was occupied by the Alabama and Choctaw peoples, plus some people that have been forgotten. They also suffered catastrophic population losses. Some Alabama merged with the Creek immigrants, others moved farther west. Richard T. **************Get fantasy football with free live scoring. Sign up for FanHouse Fantasy Football today. (http://www.fanhouse.com/fantasyaffair?ncid=aolspr00050000000020)

You're the man ! I have lotsa learnin' to do... Thank you, gmw

Thanks Richard. TT ----- Original Message ----- From: <[email protected]> To: <[email protected]> Sent: Monday, July 28, 2008 1:19 PM Subject: [CREEK-SOUTHEAST] A little more information on the ChickamaugaCherokees >I would like to add that the Chickamauaga Cherokees were originally based >in > the Upper Creek village of Chickamauga near Chattanooga, but soon spread > their villages throughout what is now NW Georgia and NE Alabama, but was > then > Georgia. They immediately began intermarrying with Creeks. The Upper > Creeks > were active allies of the Chickamauga Cherokees in their raids into > Tennessee. The Chickamauga villages often moved to avoid detection, > since the > Chickamaugas were involved in a guerilla war with the Tennessee Militia. > Interestingly enough, there were very few conflicts with Georgia > citizens even though > most Chickamaugas were living in Georgia, since the Chickamaugas > considered > Georgia to be another country. > > In 1793, many of the Chickamaugas who survived their catastrophic defeat > in > what is now Rome, GA settled in the Natchez village of Pine Log, which is > 13 > miles north of Etowah Mounds. It was here that Sequoyah, John Ridge, > James > Vann and Charles Hicks settled. Sequoyah became a prosperous silver > smith > here, and used the spare time to write his syllabary. About 8 years ago I > lived > in Pine Log only a couple hundred yards from the site of Sequoyah's > cabin. > Sequoyah's work was based on the Taliwa (Creek) syllabary - the > indigenous > people of this region where I live. Talking Rock Creek, here, gets its > name > from the Creek glyphs remaining on the stones. In fact, Sequoyah's name > is > definitely not Cherokee, and apparently derived from the Creek word > sekooya, > which means war captive. Therefore, he was probably at least 1/2 Creek > ... > maybe all Creek in genetic heritage, but spoke Cherokee. > > Up to the time of John Ross, all of the leaders of the Cherokees at > their > capital in New Echota, were from Pine Log. Many of the Pine Log > Cherokees > were full bloods, whereas, John Ross was only 1/8 Cherokee and knew > practically > nothing about his heritage until being elected a leader. So it is > definitely > not correct to describe the Chickamauga Cherokees as predominantly > mixed-blood whites. I live about 20 miles from New Echota and go their > often. > > The Kituwah Band of Cherokees trace their lineage to the 1817 Cherokee > settlers. They are federally recognized. Here is the joke on them > though. > Kituwa is not a Cherokee word other than being a proper noun. It is the > Alabama > word for sacred fire. > > The core of the North Carolina Cherokees, who formed the Qualla Boundary > Reservation, were part of Chief Junaluska's band. THEY WERE EXEMPTED FROM > GOING > TO OKLAHOMA because of a favor granted by Andy Jackson to Chief > Junaluska. > Earlier they had attempted to kill Sequoyah and his wife, because they > considered his syllabary to be witchcraft and non-Cherokee. The North > Carolina > Cherokees were in the midst of slowing torturing Sequoyah to death, when > John > Ridge led a troop of Cherokee Lighthorse from Georgia to save him. Some > Georgia Cherokees did successfully hide out from the troops, and through > the > decades ended up in Qualla, but the story presented to tourists at the > NC Cherokee > Reservation does not explain this. The NC Cherokees did not use the > Sequoyah syllabary until the late 20th century. > > For all my bad experiences with the locals here, I do feel blessed to have > lived in the past ten years in the midst of so much Native American > history. > My first two years back in Georgia were spent in walking distance of > Etowah > Mounds. > > Richard T. > > > > **************Get fantasy football with free live scoring. Sign up for > FanHouse Fantasy Football today. > (http://www.fanhouse.com/fantasyaffair?ncid=aolspr00050000000020) > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without > the quotes in the subject and the body of the message >

Me, too ... Based on other reading, I have been associating Upper Creeks with modern-day Alabama, at least since statehood. If this is not a correct understanding, set me straight. Annette ----- Original Message ---- From: "[email protected]" <[email protected]> To: [email protected] Sent: Monday, July 28, 2008 3:39:51 PM Subject: [CREEK-SOUTHEAST] Upper Creeks in NW Georgia In a message dated 7/28/2008 1:01:39 P.M. Eastern Standard Time, [email protected] writes: Hello I'm sorry, but I'm confused (and comparatively ignorant, of course)... What was Removal date for the Georgia Cherokee Nation? "descendants live here today?" in Georgia? "Upper Creeks" I'm associating them with Alabama. Thanks, Richard T. gmw The Upper Creeks were originally based in NW Georgia, but moved down stream in response to European diseases, and English sponsored slave raids. The Cherokee Trail of Tears (removal) was in the summer of 1838. There were numerous Upper Creek villages along the western edge of Northwest Georgia that never left when the Cherokees poured in after the American Revolution. The boundary between the Creeks and Cherokees set by the British was not the same as the Alabama-Georgia boundary. Richard T. **************Get fantasy football with free live scoring. Sign up for FanHouse Fantasy Football today. (http://www.fanhouse.com/fantasyaffair?ncid=aolspr00050000000020) ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message

The Surname Hunt is considered a Core Lumbee surname,and one of the Surnames associated with their ancestors who migrated from the Roanoke River region to present day Robeson co. N.C. --- On Mon, 7/28/08, Kathie M. Donahue <[email protected]> wrote: > From: Kathie M. Donahue <[email protected]> > Subject: [CREEK-SOUTHEAST] Chickamauga Cherokee and Lumbee Indians > To: [email protected] > Date: Monday, July 28, 2008, 12:32 PM > Hi Carol: > > Walker County was largely populated, from about 1800 > forward to the Homestead Act, when many mixed blood > families went west, by the Chickamauga Cherokee. Their > towns in east TN had been destroyed by 1800 and many were > wandering and destitute. Some of those families are on the > 1817 Reservation and Immigration Rolls of the Cherokee > Nation. Few were enrolled in the West (Indian Territory) > in the 1840's and later, because the majority in IT > were Cherokee of Georgia who had followed John Ross and > held out for retaining their Georgia reservations acquired > before 1820 (variously referred to as the Ross faction). > > The Ross faction held a blood feud against the Chickamauga > Cherokee for signing away their lands and forcing them on > the Trail of Tears. Consequently, when some of the > Chickamauga tried to enroll in the West, most were turned > down. In fact, many of the Chickamauga in the West were > hunted down by the Ross faction and murders exchanged back > and forth until they lost the Indian Territory altogether. > > Now, this is a VERY simplistic view of the times and > struggles of the Chickamauga but there is a good book about > them by Brent Yanusdi Cox called HEART OF THE EAGLE: > Dragging Canoe and the Emergence of the Chickamauga > Confederacy; 1999, Chenanee Publishers; Milan, TN. He > talks about their history and lineages. > > I mention this because the Chickamauga became mixed with > other tribes, primarily the Chickasaw and the Creek. They > made up the people known today as the Old Settlers (in the > West). They are listed on the 1817 Immigration Roll > because they agreed to move to the lands allotted them in > Arkansas at about that time. Although enumerated on the > Old Settlers Rolls of the 1850's and 1890's, they > were, subsequently forgotten by Uncle Sam and seem to have > melted into the population of Arkansas and environs. > > Families among them that were known to have married Creeks > were the Chisholms and the Carters. Both families had > descendants who, later, were enrolled by the Dawes > Commission. It was the group that stayed home in Georgia > and Tennessee that signed away the Cherokee lands that > became the focus of the blood feud which created such > outlaws and Thomas and Belle Starr. The Starrs were > considered Chickamauga and some were murdered by the Ross > faction.....but it was not a one-sided battle as there were > depredations on both sides. > > I have no doubt whatsoever that there were Lumbee and other > Siouan-related tribal families mixed with the Cherokee and > the Creek. I offer the Chickamauga information to help you > know which lists and rolls to investigate and to help you > understand there were differences between the two Cherokee > groups. > > The story of Sequoya's people, TELL THEM THEY LIE, > gives a good description of the differences between the > Ross faction and the Chickamauga. When you think of the > Chickamauga and the Ross faction Cherokee in light of what > Richard Thornton has written about the Rickohocken, you can > imagine there was, early, a huge split between these two > people; perhaps not so much over the issue of slavery, but, > perhaps, over the issue of slave hunting, gathering and > selling. > > This is a total guess on my part, but the point is brought > out in the books I've mentioned of how the Chickamauga > disagreed with and looked down on the Ross faction for > their adoption of white ways and their pandering to > Congress. I suppose the Chickamauga creed was more toward > killing whites than getting along with them. > > You can get a view of the Lumbee in the Robeson Co., NC, US > Federal censuses from 1850 forward. Start with 1930, as > many were marked Indian, for race, in the later years. > That will give you a thread to their names. > > Kathie > ----- Original Message ----- > From: Carol Sircoulomb > To: [email protected] > Sent: Monday, July 28, 2008 7:23 AM > Subject: [CREEK-SOUTHEAST] Query Hawkins Georgia 1814 and > tell me about theLumbee > > > I am still working on the puzzle. A John Ingram is > registered for US Army having been born in Hawkins Walker > county Georgia was this a Creek area . It is south of > Layfette and Chickamauga. > I think my Hunt line may have been Lumbee. Can any one > tell me where I can find names of the Lumbee and is it > still a tribe? > > Thank You all so much > Carol Reed Sircoulomb > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > [email protected] with the word > 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and > the body of the message > > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > [email protected] with the word > 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and > the body of the message

In a message dated 7/28/2008 1:01:39 P.M. Eastern Standard Time, [email protected] writes: Hello I'm sorry, but I'm confused (and comparatively ignorant, of course)... What was Removal date for the Georgia Cherokee Nation? "descendants live here today?" in Georgia? "Upper Creeks" I'm associating them with Alabama. Thanks, Richard T. gmw The Upper Creeks were originally based in NW Georgia, but moved down stream in response to European diseases, and English sponsored slave raids. The Cherokee Trail of Tears (removal) was in the summer of 1838. There were numerous Upper Creek villages along the western edge of Northwest Georgia that never left when the Cherokees poured in after the American Revolution. The boundary between the Creeks and Cherokees set by the British was not the same as the Alabama-Georgia boundary. Richard T. **************Get fantasy football with free live scoring. Sign up for FanHouse Fantasy Football today. (http://www.fanhouse.com/fantasyaffair?ncid=aolspr00050000000020)

Still applies on this end :) TT ----- Original Message ----- From: <[email protected]> To: <[email protected]> Sent: Monday, July 28, 2008 1:23 PM Subject: [CREEK-SOUTHEAST] Query Hawkins Georgia 1814 and tell me about theLumbee > > In a message dated 7/28/2008 9:24:48 A.M. Eastern Standard Time, > [email protected] writes: > > A John Ingram is registered for US Army having been born in Hawkins > Walker > county Georgia was this a Creek area > > > Yes, there were Creeks living in Walker County at the time of the Trail > of > Tears! > > The area I live in was a Creek area for at least 2500 years until the > British gave it to the Cherokees in 1755. However, there were at least > 3000 Creeks > still living in the Georgia Cherokee Nation at the time of Removal. > Many > Creeks stayed in the region and their descendants live here today. Until > recently the Upper Creek descendants told people that they were > Cherokees, > because we Creeks have a reputation for not being submissive. > > Richard T. > > > > **************Get fantasy football with free live scoring. Sign up for > FanHouse Fantasy Football today. > (http://www.fanhouse.com/fantasyaffair?ncid=aolspr00050000000020) > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without > the quotes in the subject and the body of the message >

In a message dated 7/28/2008 9:24:48 A.M. Eastern Standard Time, [email protected] writes: A John Ingram is registered for US Army having been born in Hawkins Walker county Georgia was this a Creek area Yes, there were Creeks living in Walker County at the time of the Trail of Tears! The area I live in was a Creek area for at least 2500 years until the British gave it to the Cherokees in 1755. However, there were at least 3000 Creeks still living in the Georgia Cherokee Nation at the time of Removal. Many Creeks stayed in the region and their descendants live here today. Until recently the Upper Creek descendants told people that they were Cherokees, because we Creeks have a reputation for not being submissive. Richard T. **************Get fantasy football with free live scoring. Sign up for FanHouse Fantasy Football today. (http://www.fanhouse.com/fantasyaffair?ncid=aolspr00050000000020)

I would like to add that the Chickamauaga Cherokees were originally based in the Upper Creek village of Chickamauga near Chattanooga, but soon spread their villages throughout what is now NW Georgia and NE Alabama, but was then Georgia. They immediately began intermarrying with Creeks. The Upper Creeks were active allies of the Chickamauga Cherokees in their raids into Tennessee. The Chickamauga villages often moved to avoid detection, since the Chickamaugas were involved in a guerilla war with the Tennessee Militia. Interestingly enough, there were very few conflicts with Georgia citizens even though most Chickamaugas were living in Georgia, since the Chickamaugas considered Georgia to be another country. In 1793, many of the Chickamaugas who survived their catastrophic defeat in what is now Rome, GA settled in the Natchez village of Pine Log, which is 13 miles north of Etowah Mounds. It was here that Sequoyah, John Ridge, James Vann and Charles Hicks settled. Sequoyah became a prosperous silver smith here, and used the spare time to write his syllabary. About 8 years ago I lived in Pine Log only a couple hundred yards from the site of Sequoyah's cabin. Sequoyah's work was based on the Taliwa (Creek) syllabary - the indigenous people of this region where I live. Talking Rock Creek, here, gets its name from the Creek glyphs remaining on the stones. In fact, Sequoyah's name is definitely not Cherokee, and apparently derived from the Creek word sekooya, which means war captive. Therefore, he was probably at least 1/2 Creek ... maybe all Creek in genetic heritage, but spoke Cherokee. Up to the time of John Ross, all of the leaders of the Cherokees at their capital in New Echota, were from Pine Log. Many of the Pine Log Cherokees were full bloods, whereas, John Ross was only 1/8 Cherokee and knew practically nothing about his heritage until being elected a leader. So it is definitely not correct to describe the Chickamauga Cherokees as predominantly mixed-blood whites. I live about 20 miles from New Echota and go their often. The Kituwah Band of Cherokees trace their lineage to the 1817 Cherokee settlers. They are federally recognized. Here is the joke on them though. Kituwa is not a Cherokee word other than being a proper noun. It is the Alabama word for sacred fire. The core of the North Carolina Cherokees, who formed the Qualla Boundary Reservation, were part of Chief Junaluska's band. THEY WERE EXEMPTED FROM GOING TO OKLAHOMA because of a favor granted by Andy Jackson to Chief Junaluska. Earlier they had attempted to kill Sequoyah and his wife, because they considered his syllabary to be witchcraft and non-Cherokee. The North Carolina Cherokees were in the midst of slowing torturing Sequoyah to death, when John Ridge led a troop of Cherokee Lighthorse from Georgia to save him. Some Georgia Cherokees did successfully hide out from the troops, and through the decades ended up in Qualla, but the story presented to tourists at the NC Cherokee Reservation does not explain this. The NC Cherokees did not use the Sequoyah syllabary until the late 20th century. For all my bad experiences with the locals here, I do feel blessed to have lived in the past ten years in the midst of so much Native American history. My first two years back in Georgia were spent in walking distance of Etowah Mounds. Richard T. **************Get fantasy football with free live scoring. Sign up for FanHouse Fantasy Football today. (http://www.fanhouse.com/fantasyaffair?ncid=aolspr00050000000020)

Hello I'm sorry, but I'm confused (and comparatively ignorant, of course)... What was Removal date for the Georgia Cherokee Nation? "descendants live here today?" in Georgia? "Upper Creeks" I'm associating them with Alabama. Thanks, Richard T. gmw

Hi Carol: Walker County was largely populated, from about 1800 forward to the Homestead Act, when many mixed blood families went west, by the Chickamauga Cherokee. Their towns in east TN had been destroyed by 1800 and many were wandering and destitute. Some of those families are on the 1817 Reservation and Immigration Rolls of the Cherokee Nation. Few were enrolled in the West (Indian Territory) in the 1840's and later, because the majority in IT were Cherokee of Georgia who had followed John Ross and held out for retaining their Georgia reservations acquired before 1820 (variously referred to as the Ross faction). The Ross faction held a blood feud against the Chickamauga Cherokee for signing away their lands and forcing them on the Trail of Tears. Consequently, when some of the Chickamauga tried to enroll in the West, most were turned down. In fact, many of the Chickamauga in the West were hunted down by the Ross faction and murders exchanged back and forth until they lost the Indian Territory altogether. Now, this is a VERY simplistic view of the times and struggles of the Chickamauga but there is a good book about them by Brent Yanusdi Cox called HEART OF THE EAGLE: Dragging Canoe and the Emergence of the Chickamauga Confederacy; 1999, Chenanee Publishers; Milan, TN. He talks about their history and lineages. I mention this because the Chickamauga became mixed with other tribes, primarily the Chickasaw and the Creek. They made up the people known today as the Old Settlers (in the West). They are listed on the 1817 Immigration Roll because they agreed to move to the lands allotted them in Arkansas at about that time. Although enumerated on the Old Settlers Rolls of the 1850's and 1890's, they were, subsequently forgotten by Uncle Sam and seem to have melted into the population of Arkansas and environs. Families among them that were known to have married Creeks were the Chisholms and the Carters. Both families had descendants who, later, were enrolled by the Dawes Commission. It was the group that stayed home in Georgia and Tennessee that signed away the Cherokee lands that became the focus of the blood feud which created such outlaws and Thomas and Belle Starr. The Starrs were considered Chickamauga and some were murdered by the Ross faction.....but it was not a one-sided battle as there were depredations on both sides. I have no doubt whatsoever that there were Lumbee and other Siouan-related tribal families mixed with the Cherokee and the Creek. I offer the Chickamauga information to help you know which lists and rolls to investigate and to help you understand there were differences between the two Cherokee groups. The story of Sequoya's people, TELL THEM THEY LIE, gives a good description of the differences between the Ross faction and the Chickamauga. When you think of the Chickamauga and the Ross faction Cherokee in light of what Richard Thornton has written about the Rickohocken, you can imagine there was, early, a huge split between these two people; perhaps not so much over the issue of slavery, but, perhaps, over the issue of slave hunting, gathering and selling. This is a total guess on my part, but the point is brought out in the books I've mentioned of how the Chickamauga disagreed with and looked down on the Ross faction for their adoption of white ways and their pandering to Congress. I suppose the Chickamauga creed was more toward killing whites than getting along with them. You can get a view of the Lumbee in the Robeson Co., NC, US Federal censuses from 1850 forward. Start with 1930, as many were marked Indian, for race, in the later years. That will give you a thread to their names. Kathie ----- Original Message ----- From: Carol Sircoulomb To: [email protected] Sent: Monday, July 28, 2008 7:23 AM Subject: [CREEK-SOUTHEAST] Query Hawkins Georgia 1814 and tell me about theLumbee I am still working on the puzzle. A John Ingram is registered for US Army having been born in Hawkins Walker county Georgia was this a Creek area . It is south of Layfette and Chickamauga. I think my Hunt line may have been Lumbee. Can any one tell me where I can find names of the Lumbee and is it still a tribe? Thank You all so much Carol Reed Sircoulomb ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message