The Federal Archives are in East Point, GA - not too far south from Downtown Atlanta and a few miles north of the Atlanta Airport. **************Looking for a car that's sporty, fun and fits in your budget? Read reviews on AOL Autos. (http://autos.aol.com/cars-BMW-128-2008/expert-review?ncid=aolaut00050000000017 )

Yes, I got that part , but the bounty lands I have seen record of just specified for military. (nothing I saw mentioned that this land or reserve "was for what we took away before" and this is a token replacement... One bounty record that I did see was for the widow of "Timpoochee" a.k.a. english name John Barnard. This bounty was for "Scar-Chee", widow of Timpoochee. He was in the (forgive my historical..) "Creek Wars" of 1812-14, and she said he died summer of 1835. I recall there was more Creek war (1835??) and 36. Anyway , what I saw was the application in the early '1850s'. Would sure like to know if he died in battle... Timpoochee , I may be related to and have researched him much. He was 1/2 english and mother full Euchee. I found another Euchee woman in Creek County, OK, in family history book , said that Timpoochee was her ggrandfather and "fire chief " "back east before the removals. Timpoochee was born about 1777 , son of englishman Timothy Barnard , who set up trade post Flint River , GA, (on Euchee land). Timpoochee led 100 Euchee at the battle of Horshoe Bend (against the Redsticks..????) and saved the man whoose face is printed on the american $20 bill (currently) and responsible for taking a large part getting the natives removed from the east to the west. Yuck. Richard B. ----- Original Message ----- From: <[email protected]> To: <[email protected]> Sent: Wednesday, August 06, 2008 8:47 PM Subject: [CREEK-SOUTHEAST] Creek reserves > Hey Richard B. > > Yes, that is what I was saying, these were reserves granted to Friendly > Creeks for service in the Revolutionary War, Cherokee Wars and War of > 1812. My > ancestors received a 2000 acre reserve for being scouts in the wars > against > the Cherokees and against the British. The reparations were for farms > taken > illegally because of a law enacted by Georgia, that no Indian could own > land. > The Friendly Creeks were theoretically State Citizens and therefore not > subject to removal to Alabama, Florida or Oklahoma. Without warning, a > troop > of militia or a sheriff's posse' would show up at a Friendly Creek's farm > or > plantation. The legal occupants would be evicted without any > compensation > whatsoever, and marched at gun point to the nearest state line. The > county > would then auction off the land to the highest bidder. Generally, these > dastardly acts were instigated by greedy planters who wanted cheap land > with which > to expand their plantations - or county commissioners, who needed to > supplement their tax receipts. > > Richard T. > > > > **************Looking for a car that's sporty, fun and fits in your > budget? > Read reviews on AOL Autos. > (http://autos.aol.com/cars-BMW-128-2008/expert-review?ncid=aolaut00050000000017 > ) > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without > the quotes in the subject and the body of the message > > > >

Ah..... yes, but the Cherokees were in GA long enough for the whites (GA "Crackers" you mention..?? you say?) to discover gold on their land. The term "Lost Cherokees" also came up. One time (5-6 yrs) ago, I was in a Cheyenne tobacco shop (their land) in Oklahoma, buying tobacco , of course. One of the warriors standing next to me asked " what are you doing here..?" I replied, "Well , I'm a lumberjack..." and he said you look like a Cherokee to me..! and I said yes. He said , have you ever heard of the lost cherokee..?? I had not , so I said no. He said they were a group (band/tribe/ethnic group) of Cherokees who "long ago" went to the north west (Washington or Oregon maybe) and he said they were never heard from again (thus "lost"). He said some of them had blonde hair... maybe some vikings or related to custer or somebody. (true happening..) Wish I knew then when talking to the Chey, .. I could have told him the Cheroks made it to north AR and are enrolling as we speak!!! Also true. Frogs croaking here tonight, guess we will have some more rain. Only an Ind would know that.. Richard B. ----- Original Message ----- From: <[email protected]> To: <[email protected]> Sent: Wednesday, August 06, 2008 8:23 PM Subject: [CREEK-SOUTHEAST] Darien, GA Cherokees > Hey Richard B. > > Yes, there is a state-recognized Cherokee tribe in Darien, GA on the > coast. > Some members appear to have Native American blood, but they don't look > like > typical Cherokees. It is 300 miles away from the nearest Cherokee set > tlement. For that matter, the Cherokee were only in Georgia for a very > short time. > > When the Atlantic Coast Line Railroad was built, in the late 1800s, many > of > its workers were Lumbees and other Indians from eastern North Carolina & > South Carolina, plus Creeks from SE Georgia. As Michelle has mentioned, > the > Carolinas adopted laws that stated that if one was not Cherokee, one was > Colored. Therefore, people from many different tribes called themselves > Cherokees > in order to survive. > > Actors Pernell Roberts and Burt Reynolds are descended from Creeks living > in > the Okefenokee Swamp. > > Richard T. > > > > **************Looking for a car that's sporty, fun and fits in your > budget? > Read reviews on AOL Autos. > (http://autos.aol.com/cars-BMW-128-2008/expert-review?ncid=aolaut00050000000017 > ) > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without > the quotes in the subject and the body of the message > > > >

Hey Richard B. Yes, that is what I was saying, these were reserves granted to Friendly Creeks for service in the Revolutionary War, Cherokee Wars and War of 1812. My ancestors received a 2000 acre reserve for being scouts in the wars against the Cherokees and against the British. The reparations were for farms taken illegally because of a law enacted by Georgia, that no Indian could own land. The Friendly Creeks were theoretically State Citizens and therefore not subject to removal to Alabama, Florida or Oklahoma. Without warning, a troop of militia or a sheriff's posse' would show up at a Friendly Creek's farm or plantation. The legal occupants would be evicted without any compensation whatsoever, and marched at gun point to the nearest state line. The county would then auction off the land to the highest bidder. Generally, these dastardly acts were instigated by greedy planters who wanted cheap land with which to expand their plantations - or county commissioners, who needed to supplement their tax receipts. Richard T. **************Looking for a car that's sporty, fun and fits in your budget? Read reviews on AOL Autos. (http://autos.aol.com/cars-BMW-128-2008/expert-review?ncid=aolaut00050000000017 )

Barbara, I replied earlier about the Dawes names. I do not know how you know who the person is unless you purchase the packet file and read the file. But..., again that is the point of sending the archives your info for them to know if you are both talking about the same person you want to know about. I found the name of one of my ancestors on the applications and it sure looked "right". I purchased the file "any way..." , but when received I found the person to be one generation too young to be the person I wanted. I got my answer, .. move on some more. Which reminds me, I found one of my verified ancestors who applied/& rejected in Oklahoma (1890s..) I have not sent for the file.... I would sure like to know how the questions on the application were filled... :o) Thanks for jogging my memory. Richard B. ----- Original Message ----- From: "barbara keel" <[email protected]> To: <[email protected]> Sent: Wednesday, August 06, 2008 3:17 PM Subject: Re: [CREEK-SOUTHEAST] Dawes Roll > Yes, I found the name there but how do I find out more info on that > name, to be sure it is my ancestor and not another by that name? > > > > [email protected] wrote: >> The names on the Dawes Roll can be accessed on the internet or through >> the >> Library of Congress >> >> >> >> **************Looking for a car that's sporty, fun and fits in your >> budget? >> Read reviews on AOL Autos. >> (http://autos.aol.com/cars-BMW-128-2008/expert-review?ncid=aolaut00050000000017 >> ) >> >> ------------------------------- >> To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to >> [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without >> the quotes in the subject and the body of the message >> >> >> > > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without > the quotes in the subject and the body of the message > > > >

Hey Richard B. Yes, there is a state-recognized Cherokee tribe in Darien, GA on the coast. Some members appear to have Native American blood, but they don't look like typical Cherokees. It is 300 miles away from the nearest Cherokee set tlement. For that matter, the Cherokee were only in Georgia for a very short time. When the Atlantic Coast Line Railroad was built, in the late 1800s, many of its workers were Lumbees and other Indians from eastern North Carolina & South Carolina, plus Creeks from SE Georgia. As Michelle has mentioned, the Carolinas adopted laws that stated that if one was not Cherokee, one was Colored. Therefore, people from many different tribes called themselves Cherokees in order to survive. Actors Pernell Roberts and Burt Reynolds are descended from Creeks living in the Okefenokee Swamp. Richard T. **************Looking for a car that's sporty, fun and fits in your budget? Read reviews on AOL Autos. (http://autos.aol.com/cars-BMW-128-2008/expert-review?ncid=aolaut00050000000017 )

What part of the country do you live? If you are near or within access distance of one of the National Archives go there. I am thinking there is an Archives in Atlanta, GA. (and other regionals). Richard T. , may know that one. Regarding Dawes, first do your best research to know about your person of interest. Have their (your own known ancestor)'s best identification you can. Things like their full name, where they were living (year) at the time of a census date, the post office address for them, etc. The reason for this is for the archives to verify exactly who you are asking about. On the Dawes roll, there are two numbers by your person's name... Census Number and Allotment Number, have both when talking to the Archives. If your person was in a household with others... those in the home will all share the same census number , but only the Allotment number will be unique to that individual. (so.., if there were 4,5, etc in the same home and you know them to possibly be relatives... copy all their numbers to have available to the archives). Then, your resourse room at your large library, should provide you with a request form for information , this is "similar" to the form for getting union civil war soldier's pension records. Fill the form best you can and also a cover letter with as much identification/person , and send to the 'National Archives in Ft. Worth, Texas... asking for the "Census Packet File / & Dawes Application" / your person's name . Write at the top of your page "Please send all copies". Ft. Worth has all the existing original packet files. These records are kept in "packets" and ask for "All copies". The Dawes application was a standard form of 10 or 20 questions, for the applicant to prove their identity and being native/elgible.... In addition to the application, you may get letters (from your ancestor , a lawyer, etc.) to the government. All this was kept in a packet tied up with a ribbon.... & the person's name/number on the outside. The archives as I recall does not charge to start, but when I last knew , & they locate the file, it was a $25 fee for up to 20 pages , then .50 cts per page above that. One file I obtained , had 55 pages, but the information was incredible. Fee is likely higher now, what isn't. Hope this gets you to Ft. Worth... Richard B. ----- Original Message ----- From: "barbara keel" <[email protected]> To: <[email protected]> Sent: Wednesday, August 06, 2008 1:06 PM Subject: [CREEK-SOUTHEAST] Question about Dawes Roll > >> How does one go about finding out if the name on the list is indeed one's >> gr grandmother? >> > > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without > the quotes in the subject and the body of the message > > > >

The original applications for the Dawes (for the Five Tribes) are online at Footnote and almost 100% complete. Index and link to them is at accessgenealogy.com. There is another Dawes Roll (for the Five Tribes)....1896....there is an index to it on accessgenealogy.com. You can get the 1896 Dawes applications ONLY at Ft. Worth NARA. The enrollments do not appear to be at footnote, yet. I retrieve many of those for people at Salt Lake City and some are online at my site because I have collected them in the course of my work. The enrollment consists of a card, showing the enrolled persons and the names of their parents. You can see a "sketch" of those enrollments on accessgenealogy when you use the index and click on the Card Number. This is complicated. If you are trying to understand it, let's keep with it until we all understand. Kathie ----- Original Message ----- From: csmoke To: [email protected] Sent: Wednesday, August 06, 2008 9:01 PM Subject: Re: [CREEK-SOUTHEAST] Federal archives Ft. Worth , has the originals of the Dawes records... they are western records of western events. I suggested any regional archives, since if you go there... they know where records are and will help you get the information from the right place. Richard B.

Thank you very much for your reply. I was using the index. Barb Judy White wrote: > Were you using the index of the Final Rolls? You need to be using the Final > Rolls and if there is more information on that person when you click on the > roll number it will take you to more family members. If a exta box comes up > on the right side of the screen that means that packet has been put on line > by Footnote and you can look at the information there and possibly tell. > You can also purchase a monthly membership and download the info. > > Judy > > > > On Wed, Aug 6, 2008 at 1:17 PM, barbara keel <[email protected]>wrote: > > >> Yes, I found the name there but how do I find out more info on that >> name, to be sure it is my ancestor and not another by that name? >> >> >> >> [email protected] wrote: >> >>> The names on the Dawes Roll can be accessed on the internet or through >>> >> the >> >>> Library of Congress >>> >>> >>> >>> **************Looking for a car that's sporty, fun and fits in your >>> >> budget? >> >>> Read reviews on AOL Autos. >>> ( >>> >> http://autos.aol.com/cars-BMW-128-2008/expert-review?ncid=aolaut00050000000017) >> >>> ------------------------------- >>> To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to >>> >> [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without >> the quotes in the subject and the body of the message >> >>> >>> >> ------------------------------- >> To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to >> [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without >> the quotes in the subject and the body of the message >> >> > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message > > >

Thanks Richard B., He is legit. His Uncle and Aunt are on the rolls and so was his grand parents and parents. His brother also. I understand the situation on the wanta bees. But, it is listed as the Lost Cherokee Nation, with no benefits, or Federal recognition. Arkansas and Missouri. The main office use to be in Clinton, Ark. and has now moved to Dover, Ark. if I am not mistaken. Thank you, my friend. Sam ----- Original Message ----- From: "csmoke" <[email protected]> To: <[email protected]> Sent: Wednesday, August 06, 2008 7:56 PM Subject: Re: [CREEK-SOUTHEAST] In looking for ancestorsalwayscheckoutArkansas, Louisiana and Texas > Sam, > Not to disappoint, but there are many (many) wannabe fraudlent groups in > the > area you mention. Before you recognize them, you might want to find a > site > that lists all the federally recognized tribes and see if the group you > mention is on the list. > > I have "bumped" into some of these people and it is disturbing to see them > using "enrollement cards" with numbers of their own manufacture. Part of > the issue for me ( and others..) is they refer to themselves as Cherokee > tribe and represent craft work (with logos..) as authentic native > american. > To become one of them, the usually needed genealogy is a $20 /or check > made > out to them. I have not been arround any of them for a while (they got to > know me..) , but I suspect they are still getting a high level of > membership > enrollment. Most of their starting dialog with strangers is" we are > descended from Inds who jumped off the boats,.. my ancestors escaped from > the trail of tears.." (thats why we are here, etc..) Yuck. > > Richard B. > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Sam Gipson" <[email protected]> > To: <[email protected]> > Sent: Tuesday, August 05, 2008 8:09 PM > Subject: Re: [CREEK-SOUTHEAST] In looking for ancestors > alwayscheckoutArkansas, Louisiana and Texas > > >> Richard B, >> I believe the Cherokee's in Ark. and Missouri, are referred to as the >> Lost >> Cherokee Tribe. A friend has his card, Lost Cherokee Tribe. (Arkansas >> and >> Missouri) >> >> Thanks, Sam >> >> >> ----- Original Message ----- >> From: "csmoke" <[email protected]> >> To: <[email protected]> >> Sent: Tuesday, August 05, 2008 4:29 PM >> Subject: Re: [CREEK-SOUTHEAST] In looking for ancestors always >> checkoutArkansas, Louisiana and Texas >> >> >>> Richard T., when cooking the Opossom, I guess my ggrandmother forgot to >>> "parboil" and went straight to the oven. Grease/oil level was half up >>> in >>> the baking pan, but I think they used to dip their homemade bread in >>> that. >>> That was one of the few foods I tried and did not acquire a taste for. >>> (too >>> much oil..). How do you get those roadkills to eat the >>> buttermilk/etc??? >>> >>> In locations for natives,.. remember that about 1817 was a treaty for >>> the >>> Cherokees (referred to as Old Settlers) to self emigrate to their >>> Reservation in north central Arkansas. (they stayed there until about >>> 1830) >>> when the reservation was dissolved in another treaty and the Old >>> Settlers >>> went to Ind Territory. 1817 look for "passport" allowing Inds >>> (reds...:o) >>> to travel. >>> >>> Sam Huston , the Texican, was very hooked to the Cherokees, he was >>> known >>> as >>> "The Raven" & book title same name , .. in his biography you see much. >>> (one of my family names chief (John Jolly) , adopted him, but others >>> claim >>> not the same person. Neither of us can "proove" yes/no , but I have >>> some >>> paper trial for that!! >>> >>> Also, along with your good information, you did not mention 1811 >>> earthquake >>> SE Missouri "bootheel" , Cherokee living there with chief "Bowl" , fled >>> to >>> TX , they considered the ground shake a bad medicine message or >>> something. >>> Quiz.. : Feds made 40 treaties with the Cherokee,.. how many of the >>> treaty >>> conditions were kept by this govt ?? (tune in this theatre next week >>> for >>> the answer..)!! >>> >>> Richard B. >>> >>> ----- Original Message ----- >>> From: <[email protected]> >>> To: <[email protected]> >>> Sent: Tuesday, August 05, 2008 12:22 PM >>> Subject: [CREEK-SOUTHEAST] In looking for ancestors always check >>> outArkansas, Louisiana and Texas >>> >>> >>>> The mention about the new museum In Fort Smith, AK reminded of >>>> something >>>> I >>>> discovered in my research in the past. I found that thousands and >>>> thousands >>>> of Creeks and Cherokees went west prior to the Trail of Tears in the >>>> late >>>> 1830s. Very few went initially to Oklahoma because it was claimed by >>>> other >>>> tribes. Cherokees and Upper Creeks often went to Arkansas, sometimes >>>> to >>>> Missouri. >>>> Lower Creeks, Alabamas, and Koasati's went to Louisiana, Texas and >>>> Mexico - >>>> perhaps also to the southern tip of Arkansas. Some Cherokees went to >>>> Texas >>>> and then to Mexico. Most Cherokees were chased out of Texas after it >>>> became a >>>> Republic. However, a considerable number of Alabamas, Koasati's and >>>> Lower >>>> Creeks were allowed to stay in Texas because they had fought along >>>> side >>>> the >>>> Texans against the Mexicans. >>>> >>>> As I mentioned last week, also look for Friendly "Georgia" Creeks in >>>> Texas. >>>> The Friendly (Hitchiti-speaking) Creeks were promised that they could >>>> keep >>>> their farms in Georgia and South Carolina, but many were either >>>> illegally >>>> dispossessed or felt insecure in an anti-Indian political environment. >>>> The >>>> Friendly Creeks carried with them a hybrid culture that was a mixture >>>> of >>>> the >>>> Mound-Builders and Scottish frontiersmen. Many also has aspirations of >>>> being >>>> planters or ranchers in Texas. Their descendants tended to blend in >>>> with >>>> the >>>> Texans since Creeks are not that different in appearance from Mexican >>>> Mestizos. >>>> >>>> Also, when planning to serve possum for prominent guests or wedding >>>> parties, >>>> be sure and feed the possum cornbread and buttermilk for a couple of >>>> weeks >>>> before dressing them. Parboiling the possum for awhile will get rid >>>> of >>>> the >>>> excess fat created by the cornbread and buttermilk. >>>> >>>> Richard T. >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> **************Looking for a car that's sporty, fun and fits in your >>>> budget? >>>> Read reviews on AOL Autos. >>>> (http://autos.aol.com/cars-BMW-128-2008/expert-review?ncid=aolaut00050000000017 >>>> ) >>>> >>>> ------------------------------- >>>> To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to >>>> [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' >>>> without >>>> the quotes in the subject and the body of the message >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>>> >>>> >>> >>> >>> >>> ------------------------------- >>> To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to >>> [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without >>> the quotes in the subject and the body of the message >> >> >> >> ------------------------------- >> To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to >> [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without >> the quotes in the subject and the body of the message >> >> >> >> > > > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without > the quotes in the subject and the body of the message

Someone asked the quetion about what is in the packet. If you go here http://www.accessgenealogy.com/native/packets/ you will find some packets that we have put online that other people have provided. I metioned earlier about being able to get the packets online from Footnote, a monthly subscription is like $7.95, which is much cheaper than the National Archive or Oklahoma History Center and you get the information right now. Judy On Wed, Aug 6, 2008 at 7:16 PM, csmoke <[email protected]> wrote: > What part of the country do you live? If you are near or within access > distance of one of the National Archives go there. I am thinking there is > an Archives in Atlanta, GA. (and other regionals). Richard > T. , may know that one. > > Regarding Dawes, first do your best research to know about your person of > interest. Have their (your own known ancestor)'s best identification you > can. Things like their full name, where they were living (year) at the > time > of a census date, the post office address for them, etc. The reason for > this is for the archives to verify exactly who you are asking about. > > On the Dawes roll, there are two numbers by your person's name... Census > Number and Allotment Number, have both when talking to the Archives. If > your person was in a household with others... those in the home will all > share the same census number , but only the Allotment number will be unique > to that individual. (so.., if there were 4,5, etc in the same home and you > know them to possibly be relatives... copy all their numbers to have > available to the archives). > > Then, your resourse room at your large library, should provide you with a > request form for information , this is "similar" to the form for getting > union civil war soldier's pension records. Fill the form best you can and > also a cover letter with as much identification/person , and send to the > 'National Archives in Ft. Worth, Texas... asking for the "Census Packet > File > / & Dawes Application" / your person's name . Write at the top of your > page > "Please send all copies". Ft. Worth has all the existing original packet > files. > > These records are kept in "packets" and ask for "All copies". The Dawes > application was a standard form of 10 or 20 questions, for the applicant to > prove their identity and being native/elgible.... In addition to the > application, you may get letters (from your ancestor , a lawyer, etc.) to > the government. All this was kept in a packet tied up with a ribbon.... & > the person's name/number on the outside. > > The archives as I recall does not charge to start, but when I last knew , & > they locate the file, it was a $25 fee for up to 20 pages , then .50 cts > per > page above that. One file I obtained , had 55 pages, but the information > was incredible. Fee is likely higher now, what isn't. > > Hope this gets you to Ft. Worth... > > Richard B. > > > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "barbara keel" <[email protected]> > To: <[email protected]> > Sent: Wednesday, August 06, 2008 1:06 PM > Subject: [CREEK-SOUTHEAST] Question about Dawes Roll > > > > > >> How does one go about finding out if the name on the list is indeed > one's > >> gr grandmother? > >> > > > > > > ------------------------------- > > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > > [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without > > the quotes in the subject and the body of the message > > > > > > > > > > > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without > the quotes in the subject and the body of the message >

Richard T., I have so very little knowledge of the early east reparations, but have heard the lands being called reserves. 'Everything' I have read , was tied to "reward" for military service.. rather than who the person was . And,.. it was mentioned that these military service lands (or reserves) were negotiable value and most often quickly sold for whatever could be had ... (many cases received by the widow of the soldier and then sold by her.) Records of these land bounties exist , but I can't tell you how to get there from here. So, if the Ind quickly sold his military land , he dissolved the connections associated with it , if that makes any sense. Some of the oldest early lands obtained in Arkansas were military land bounty in origin. Richard B. ----- Original Message ----- From: <[email protected]> To: <[email protected]> Sent: Wednesday, August 06, 2008 12:19 PM Subject: [CREEK-SOUTHEAST] Other Eastern Creek families who received Federalreparations > > The letter about the Poarch Creeks ticked my mind about a question I posed > last month to the Muscogee (Creek) Nation's Justice Department. I am a > descendant of one of the many Friendly Creek families in the Southeast, > who > received nominal reparations from the US Government during the 1930s. The > funds > were to compensate descendants of Friendly Creeks, who had their reserves > illegally taken from them by state or local governments. Our reserves > were > originally granted for service to the United States during war time. They > were > essentially veteran's land grants, not Indian reservations, but much > larger than > the grants given to most Caucasian veterans. However, legally these > reserves > were absolutely identical in status to those reserves granted the > ancestors of > the Poarch Creeks - who are federally recognized. > > My question to the Creek official was this: Since the reparations were > paid > to Friendly Creeks on the basis that they were Creek Indians granted land > by > the Federal government, and that neither state nor local governments had > the > right to terminate Federal grants of lands to American Indians, was it > possible that the descendants of these grantees were eligible for > citizenship in > the Muscogee (Creek) Nation? > > The answer is no. The current Muscogee (Creek) Constitution restricts > citizenship to those persons who are direct descendants of persons listed > on the > Dawes Rolls. In an earlier telephone conversation, the court staff member > mentioned that there were thousands of people in Oklahoma alone, who were > true > Creeks and descended from Creeks who took allotments in 1905. However, > like > my ancestor, who took an allotment, their ancestors feared being listed on > the > Dawes Roll. Therefore, they are not eligible for citizenship. > > Thus, if your family received an Eastern Creek reparation, and was not > part > of the group of families ancestral to the Poarch Creeks, at this time you > are > not legally considered a Creek Indian as far as the BIA is concerned - > even > if the US Dept. of Justice considered your family legitimately Creek in > the > 1930s or earlier. Theoretically, if all of us reparation descendants > came > together, we could petition for Federal recognition. However, there is a > Catch > 22 on this approach. One of the criteria used by the Bureau of Indian > Affairs is that the petitioning tribe must have lived as an Indian > community on the > same tract of land dating back to the time of their initial recognition > as > Indians. Thus, if your family's land was stolen from you because they > were > Creeks, you can't legally be a federally recognized Creek now. > > The one type of Creeks in Georgia who have the strongest case for Federal > recognition are the descendants of the Ware County (Waycross) Creeks. > There > is irrefutable evidence that this band of Creeks lived in the vicinity of > the > Okefenokee Swamp as a Native American community until it was purchased by > the > United States government in the 1930s and 1940s. I may have an ancestor > in > that group, but am not sure. Perhaps the descendants of the Okefenokee > Creeks should first form a state recognized tribe in Waycross, and then > petition > for Federal recognition. > > Richard T. > > > > > > > > > **************Looking for a car that's sporty, fun and fits in your > budget? > Read reviews on AOL Autos. > (http://autos.aol.com/cars-BMW-128-2008/expert-review?ncid=aolaut00050000000017 > ) > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without > the quotes in the subject and the body of the message > > > >

Sam, Not to disappoint, but there are many (many) wannabe fraudlent groups in the area you mention. Before you recognize them, you might want to find a site that lists all the federally recognized tribes and see if the group you mention is on the list. I have "bumped" into some of these people and it is disturbing to see them using "enrollement cards" with numbers of their own manufacture. Part of the issue for me ( and others..) is they refer to themselves as Cherokee tribe and represent craft work (with logos..) as authentic native american. To become one of them, the usually needed genealogy is a $20 /or check made out to them. I have not been arround any of them for a while (they got to know me..) , but I suspect they are still getting a high level of membership enrollment. Most of their starting dialog with strangers is" we are descended from Inds who jumped off the boats,.. my ancestors escaped from the trail of tears.." (thats why we are here, etc..) Yuck. Richard B. ----- Original Message ----- From: "Sam Gipson" <[email protected]> To: <[email protected]> Sent: Tuesday, August 05, 2008 8:09 PM Subject: Re: [CREEK-SOUTHEAST] In looking for ancestors alwayscheckoutArkansas, Louisiana and Texas > Richard B, > I believe the Cherokee's in Ark. and Missouri, are referred to as the Lost > Cherokee Tribe. A friend has his card, Lost Cherokee Tribe. (Arkansas > and > Missouri) > > Thanks, Sam > > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "csmoke" <[email protected]> > To: <[email protected]> > Sent: Tuesday, August 05, 2008 4:29 PM > Subject: Re: [CREEK-SOUTHEAST] In looking for ancestors always > checkoutArkansas, Louisiana and Texas > > >> Richard T., when cooking the Opossom, I guess my ggrandmother forgot to >> "parboil" and went straight to the oven. Grease/oil level was half up in >> the baking pan, but I think they used to dip their homemade bread in >> that. >> That was one of the few foods I tried and did not acquire a taste for. >> (too >> much oil..). How do you get those roadkills to eat the buttermilk/etc??? >> >> In locations for natives,.. remember that about 1817 was a treaty for the >> Cherokees (referred to as Old Settlers) to self emigrate to their >> Reservation in north central Arkansas. (they stayed there until about >> 1830) >> when the reservation was dissolved in another treaty and the Old Settlers >> went to Ind Territory. 1817 look for "passport" allowing Inds >> (reds...:o) >> to travel. >> >> Sam Huston , the Texican, was very hooked to the Cherokees, he was known >> as >> "The Raven" & book title same name , .. in his biography you see much. >> (one of my family names chief (John Jolly) , adopted him, but others >> claim >> not the same person. Neither of us can "proove" yes/no , but I have some >> paper trial for that!! >> >> Also, along with your good information, you did not mention 1811 >> earthquake >> SE Missouri "bootheel" , Cherokee living there with chief "Bowl" , fled >> to >> TX , they considered the ground shake a bad medicine message or >> something. >> Quiz.. : Feds made 40 treaties with the Cherokee,.. how many of the >> treaty >> conditions were kept by this govt ?? (tune in this theatre next week for >> the answer..)!! >> >> Richard B. >> >> ----- Original Message ----- >> From: <[email protected]> >> To: <[email protected]> >> Sent: Tuesday, August 05, 2008 12:22 PM >> Subject: [CREEK-SOUTHEAST] In looking for ancestors always check >> outArkansas, Louisiana and Texas >> >> >>> The mention about the new museum In Fort Smith, AK reminded of >>> something >>> I >>> discovered in my research in the past. I found that thousands and >>> thousands >>> of Creeks and Cherokees went west prior to the Trail of Tears in the >>> late >>> 1830s. Very few went initially to Oklahoma because it was claimed by >>> other >>> tribes. Cherokees and Upper Creeks often went to Arkansas, sometimes >>> to >>> Missouri. >>> Lower Creeks, Alabamas, and Koasati's went to Louisiana, Texas and >>> Mexico - >>> perhaps also to the southern tip of Arkansas. Some Cherokees went to >>> Texas >>> and then to Mexico. Most Cherokees were chased out of Texas after it >>> became a >>> Republic. However, a considerable number of Alabamas, Koasati's and >>> Lower >>> Creeks were allowed to stay in Texas because they had fought along side >>> the >>> Texans against the Mexicans. >>> >>> As I mentioned last week, also look for Friendly "Georgia" Creeks in >>> Texas. >>> The Friendly (Hitchiti-speaking) Creeks were promised that they could >>> keep >>> their farms in Georgia and South Carolina, but many were either >>> illegally >>> dispossessed or felt insecure in an anti-Indian political environment. >>> The >>> Friendly Creeks carried with them a hybrid culture that was a mixture >>> of >>> the >>> Mound-Builders and Scottish frontiersmen. Many also has aspirations of >>> being >>> planters or ranchers in Texas. Their descendants tended to blend in >>> with >>> the >>> Texans since Creeks are not that different in appearance from Mexican >>> Mestizos. >>> >>> Also, when planning to serve possum for prominent guests or wedding >>> parties, >>> be sure and feed the possum cornbread and buttermilk for a couple of >>> weeks >>> before dressing them. Parboiling the possum for awhile will get rid of >>> the >>> excess fat created by the cornbread and buttermilk. >>> >>> Richard T. >>> >>> >>> >>> **************Looking for a car that's sporty, fun and fits in your >>> budget? >>> Read reviews on AOL Autos. >>> (http://autos.aol.com/cars-BMW-128-2008/expert-review?ncid=aolaut00050000000017 >>> ) >>> >>> ------------------------------- >>> To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to >>> [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without >>> the quotes in the subject and the body of the message >>> >>> >>> >>>> >>> >> >> >> >> ------------------------------- >> To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to >> [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without >> the quotes in the subject and the body of the message > > > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without > the quotes in the subject and the body of the message > > > >

Richard, You know what I am looking for about the Okonee. Now it sound like you are getting very close to proving my premise. You help me do that and pick the restaurant of your choice in Atlanta. It is worth it to me with all the people that I am working against who I suspect still think Columbus discovered a new route to India. :-) Have a happy!! S At 04:01 PM 8/6/2008, you wrote: >The Okonee composed a province in northeastern Georgia, northwestern South >Carolina and where the North Carolina Cherokee Reservation is now located. >They were a separate ethnic group that spoke a dialect of >Hitchiti. They were >serious mound builders, but most people lived on farmsteads, not in towns or >villages. Okonee's who moved down to Florida, became the core group of the >Seminoles. Many Okonees became Christians and over time >have intermarried with >their European and African neighbors. Other Okonees moved west to Oklahoma. > >The name means "washed with water" in Hitchiti - and refers to a form of >ritual baptism practiced by the Okonees. > > > >**************Looking for a car that's sporty, fun and fits in your budget? >Read reviews on AOL Autos. >(http://autos.aol.com/cars-BMW-128-2008/expert-review?ncid=aolaut00050000000017 >) > >------------------------------- >To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to >[email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' >without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message > > > >-- >No virus found in this incoming message. >Checked by AVG. >Version: 7.5.526 / Virus Database: 270.5.12/1594 - Release Date: >8/5/2008 9:49 PM -- No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG. Version: 7.5.526 / Virus Database: 270.5.12/1594 - Release Date: 8/5/2008 9:49 PM

Hi, Jennifer ! The Hastie-Thompson book mentions SIX Colbert people: Chief William Chief George James Polly (Peggy) Celia Louize ALSO, it mentions Pass Christian, which you had referenced in your earlier e-mail. Do you have any first names? gmw

> After a bad hurricane and flood in south Florida. My Grandfather ( Loren > Robert's) while hunting discovered the skeletal remains of a large Indian man. > My Grandfather said the man was at least > 7-8 feet tall... The Calusa people (pre-Seminole) of South Florida, were known to be tall people. Paul Hornsby

In a message dated 8/6/2008 2:06:38 P.M. Eastern Standard Time, [email protected] writes: we were actually a member of the Greater Catawba Nation, a confederacy of Siouan and Creek peoples from North and South Carolina. Learn something every day from Alexandria, VA! Richard T. **************Looking for a car that's sporty, fun and fits in your budget? Read reviews on AOL Autos. (http://autos.aol.com/cars-BMW-128-2008/expert-review?ncid=aolaut00050000000017 )

The names on the Dawes Roll can be accessed on the internet or through the Library of Congress **************Looking for a car that's sporty, fun and fits in your budget? Read reviews on AOL Autos. (http://autos.aol.com/cars-BMW-128-2008/expert-review?ncid=aolaut00050000000017 )

The Okonee composed a province in northeastern Georgia, northwestern South Carolina and where the North Carolina Cherokee Reservation is now located. They were a separate ethnic group that spoke a dialect of Hitchiti. They were serious mound builders, but most people lived on farmsteads, not in towns or villages. Okonee's who moved down to Florida, became the core group of the Seminoles. Many Okonees became Christians and over time have intermarried with their European and African neighbors. Other Okonees moved west to Oklahoma. The name means "washed with water" in Hitchiti - and refers to a form of ritual baptism practiced by the Okonees. **************Looking for a car that's sporty, fun and fits in your budget? Read reviews on AOL Autos. (http://autos.aol.com/cars-BMW-128-2008/expert-review?ncid=aolaut00050000000017 )

There is also a capped oil well at Sunniland about 20 miles north of Everglades city on SR 29. This was one of Billy Bowlegs villages that caused caused the 3rd Seminole War. ----- Original Message ----- From: <[email protected]> To: <[email protected]> Sent: Wednesday, August 06, 2008 3:46 PM Subject: [CREEK-SOUTHEAST] Indian Tribe in the Florida Everglades > Richard, > > After a bad hurricane and flood in south Florida. My Grandfather ( Loren > Robert's) while hunting discovered the skeletal remains of a large Indian > man. He > apparently had washed out of the grave (Shell-mound.) The location was in > the > Everglades, west, near the Humpback bridge...not far from Flamingo. Now > headquarters for Everglades National Park. My Grandfather said the man > was at least > 7-8 feet tall... > > Granddaddy Robert's and a Seminole Indian named "Wilson Cypress" buried > the > Indian. It was a custom to bury the bodies sitting up, facing east, I was > told. > > Seminole's in the Everglade hunted and trapped bear with my family. > Seminole's were not tall like this man. We have pictures of them. My > family traded > gator hides, plumes, turtles, and meat, including smoked manatee with them > from > late 1800s. The only word I remember was (nic-a-noc-a -noc-ca) Indian word > for > deer.I wonder if this is correct ( ?) > > A gentleman was talking about the South Florida Indians. At the University > of Florida a couple of years ago. He made the statement there were no > Indians > ever located in the "far south > I wanted to tell him he was wrong but I figured they would all go down > there > and dig up the bones and disturb the mound, destroy it and the history > too. > > Just like they did the Everglades....... Government took the Park land > from > the settlers in 1947........ > They brought in strange plants called malaluka, (to dry up the River of > Grass) and several non native plants that took over the Everglades. > Government > workers cut trails, built another road and built the headquarters in > Flamingo > . Settler's were burned out and the Federal Park took the land. " > sounds > familiar doesn't it"? > > Oil was discovered there in West Lake. A capped off well was there the > last > time I went down...... But they changed the road to bypass it We figured > it > was an Oil Reserve. > I have the newspaper article that can prove it. > There is an Oil well in Clewiston, pumps every day.... Not far from > Homestead. and the Tamiami Trail. > > "Educated Idiots" my grandfather called them! >