Leon, I have seen the same thing, rejected even with court witness afadavits. (I have a hard copy, my files, my family line..). I cannot say for sure, but I think the Dawes relied heavily (or maybe exclusively..) on the fact person applying , or parent/s having been on earlier native census previous rolls. Richard B. ----- Original Message ----- From: "Leon Beard" <[email protected]> To: <[email protected]> Sent: Friday, August 08, 2008 6:14 PM Subject: Re: [CREEK-SOUTHEAST] Understanding Rolls and Reserves >I know after reading the information provided by some of my grandmothers >relatives to the Dawes comission for creek Citizenship, and the number of >witnesses that testified that they knew the family to be Indian, and >descended from a Creek Indian named Samuel Low, the Dawes comission >rejected the family. > > > --- On Thu, 8/7/08, Evelyn S. Leslie <[email protected]> wrote: > >> From: Evelyn S. Leslie <[email protected]> >> Subject: [CREEK-SOUTHEAST] Understanding Rolls and Reserves >> To: [email protected] >> Date: Thursday, August 7, 2008, 2:23 PM >> Kathie made a comment the other day concerning the Dawes >> Rolls: <This is complicated. If you are trying to >> understand it, let's keep with it until we all >> understand. >> >> Kathie > >> >> Boy, did she ever hit the nail on the head, and Kathie, I >> would like to add Reserves to that, also. Do you have a >> listing for the different land reserves "given" >> (for want of a better description) to different Creek groups >> following various treaties and the years they were given? >> The only one I have plenty of information on at my >> fingertips in my own files are the 30 reserves given to >> "certain friendly Chiefs and Indian countrymen" in >> 1817 for their service in the Creek war 1813-1814. The >> reason I have studied that one so much is because that >> happens to be my south Alabama family. However, I did have >> some in the 1830 (or 32?) reserves, also, but just piecemeal >> names and info and not a complete list. I have nothing on >> the Georgia Creeks and who received what and when. Were the >> same stipulations attached to each one, or did they change >> with each treaty as land was relinquished? There again, I >> know how it worked with the 1817 land but not the others. >> >> Also, one comment about the Dawes rolls. The testimony >> contained in some of the jackets for later descendants >> attempting to get enrolled in the Creek Nation West is >> heartbreaking. Some of them had been there ever since the >> removal or before while it was voluntary, but the Dawes >> Commission was totally heartless in their interviews and >> browbeat them so I'm surprised they could remember their >> own names. All that before telling many of them they were >> not eligible - so sad. >> >> Thanks! >> Evelyn Leslie >> >> ------------------------------- >> To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to >> [email protected] with the word >> 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and >> the body of the message > > > > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without > the quotes in the subject and the body of the message > > > >

> I suspected as much for SC. Is Honea Path, SC a town that was Indian? > Suspect Honea is an Indian name. TT I doubt it being Indian in origin. I had a friend with the last name Honea. He was not NDN. Paul Hornsby

Leon, I may have used that term wannabe, it is a favorite of mine. Your meanings are not how I uses it,... for me it is the vast groups who (are not Inds or even percentages of). The Wanna be groups are significanly expanding in my hunting grounds (MO) , they conduct pow wows, create crafts (with no regard or knowing of traditions to anyone/thing...) , enroll "tribal" members for a fee.., and besides that are just generally offensive. In referring to the Wanna beeesssss, the term "Culture Vulture" (I have heard ..) is appropriate. Used to hear them also called "Cedars" (.. inside they have a red heart, but they are white on the outside...). They have no problem with dancing in their ("Tandy") regalia at their (phony pows..). Deliver me from dedicated people!!!! Did I mention they have "Chiefs..." ? Richard T. did not post this,.. it is Richard B. ----- Original Message ----- From: "Leon Beard" <[email protected]> To: <[email protected]> Sent: Friday, August 08, 2008 5:25 PM Subject: Re: [CREEK-SOUTHEAST] In looking forancestorsalwayscheckoutArkansas,Louisiana and Texas > We must keep in mind that the term wannabe is a negative word that is > often used by Native americans that have obtained Federal recognition, to > describe anyone that is of indian descent who does not have Federal > recognition or a C.D.I.B. card. > THe federally Recognized Cherokee bands, view any state recognized > cherokee band as being wannabe/phony, the Creek Bands who have Federal > recognition have the same viewpoint towards any state recognized group. > > > --- On Thu, 8/7/08, Sam Gipson <[email protected]> wrote: > >> From: Sam Gipson <[email protected]> >> Subject: Re: [CREEK-SOUTHEAST] In looking >> forancestorsalwayscheckoutArkansas, Louisiana and Texas >> To: [email protected] >> Date: Thursday, August 7, 2008, 2:41 PM >> Thanks Richard B, >> No the tribe is not State or Federally listed on the rolls. >> May be one you can buy a membership into. >> Look up Lost Cherokee Tribe, Arkansas and Missouri. >> >> I have some errands to run and will find the site for you >> to check out. >> >> Tks, Sam I know they do not make and sell NA jewelry. >> >> >> ----- Original Message ----- >> From: "csmoke" <[email protected]> >> To: <[email protected]> >> Sent: Wednesday, August 06, 2008 11:21 PM >> Subject: Re: [CREEK-SOUTHEAST] In looking >> forancestorsalwayscheckoutArkansas,Louisiana and Texas >> >> >> > Sam, >> > I did not think they are recognized, but I do not have >> a need to know on >> > that one. >> > >> > There were some very early Cherokees settled vicinity >> of Dover... (I'm >> > getting a vision..)...:o) a significant school or >> church situation. This >> > is central to the area that John Jolly (chief of the >> Old Settlers) 1828/29 >> > , >> > was located (he maybe my connection, plus where Sam >> Huston "holed up" >> > before going on to his fame in TX ) and due south of >> there on the Arkansas >> > River is a large population of Cheroks and a very old >> Cherokee cemetery on >> > the bluffs above the river. >> > By the way, these places are getting in the >> neighborhood of where my >> > "pioneers" (Thomas Clark from TN in 1853/or >> 54) began,... in extreme >> > southwest Newton County , AR. Am probably related to >> Merle Haggard, he >> > claims to be from same place. Everybody (!!) is cuzn >> there. There are >> > some >> > folks that area who quit talking to me about genealogy >> (their ancestors >> > murdered my gggrandfather Thomas Clark, spring 1863). >> As I took apart the >> > last threads of information,... I had it and they just >> "shut up". >> > >> > If anyone encounters some research on a battle/attack >> (1st week of >> > February >> > , 1863) involving 7 members of the union 1st AR CAV , >> at Mulberry Springs, >> > AR, I surely would be interested. It was an attack on >> a log "compound" >> > against 35 Mankins or Manican Indians. I have looked >> some and believe >> > these Manikin/Mankins are originally from/part of the >> Powhatans in easter >> > Virginia ??). The inhabitants of the compound were >> paid partisans , hired >> > by Peter Mankins. I have read the military record, >> but hope there is more >> > info "out there". >> > >> > Richard B. >> > >> > ----- Original Message ----- >> > From: "Sam Gipson" >> <[email protected]> >> > To: <[email protected]> >> > Sent: Wednesday, August 06, 2008 8:52 PM >> > Subject: Re: [CREEK-SOUTHEAST] In looking >> > forancestorsalwayscheckoutArkansas, Louisiana and >> Texas >> > >> > >> >> Thanks Richard B., >> >> He is legit. His Uncle and Aunt are on the rolls >> and so was his grand >> >> parents and parents. >> >> His brother also. >> >> I understand the situation on the wanta bees. >> >> But, it is listed as the Lost Cherokee Nation, >> with no benefits, or >> >> Federal >> >> recognition. >> >> Arkansas and Missouri. >> >> The main office use to be in Clinton, Ark. and has >> now moved to Dover, >> >> Ark. >> >> if I am not mistaken. >> >> Thank you, my friend. >> >> >> >> Sam >> >> ----- Original Message ----- >> >> From: "csmoke" >> <[email protected]> >> >> To: <[email protected]> >> >> Sent: Wednesday, August 06, 2008 7:56 PM >> >> Subject: Re: [CREEK-SOUTHEAST] In looking for >> >> ancestorsalwayscheckoutArkansas, Louisiana and >> Texas >> >> >> >> >> >>> Sam, >> >>> Not to disappoint, but there are many (many) >> wannabe fraudlent groups in >> >>> the >> >>> area you mention. Before you recognize them, >> you might want to find a >> >>> site >> >>> that lists all the federally recognized tribes >> and see if the group you >> >>> mention is on the list. >> >>> >> >>> I have "bumped" into some of these >> people and it is disturbing to see >> >>> them >> >>> using "enrollement cards" with >> numbers of their own manufacture. Part >> >>> of >> >>> the issue for me ( and others..) is they refer >> to themselves as Cherokee >> >>> tribe and represent craft work (with logos..) >> as authentic native >> >>> american. >> >>> To become one of them, the usually needed >> genealogy is a $20 /or check >> >>> made >> >>> out to them. I have not been arround any of >> them for a while (they got >> >>> to >> >>> know me..) , but I suspect they are still >> getting a high level of >> >>> membership >> >>> enrollment. Most of their starting dialog >> with strangers is" we are >> >>> descended from Inds who jumped off the >> boats,.. my ancestors escaped >> >>> from >> >>> the trail of tears.." (thats why we are >> here, etc..) Yuck. >> >>> >> >>> Richard B. >> >>> >> >>> ----- Original Message ----- >> >>> From: "Sam Gipson" >> <[email protected]> >> >>> To: <[email protected]> >> >>> Sent: Tuesday, August 05, 2008 8:09 PM >> >>> Subject: Re: [CREEK-SOUTHEAST] In looking for >> ancestors >> >>> alwayscheckoutArkansas, Louisiana and Texas >> >>> >> >>> >> >>>> Richard B, >> >>>> I believe the Cherokee's in Ark. and >> Missouri, are referred to as the >> >>>> Lost >> >>>> Cherokee Tribe. A friend has his card, >> Lost Cherokee Tribe. (Arkansas >> >>>> and >> >>>> Missouri) >> >>>> >> >>>> Thanks, Sam >> >>>> >> >>>> >> >>>> ----- Original Message ----- >> >>>> From: "csmoke" >> <[email protected]> >> >>>> To: <[email protected]> >> >>>> Sent: Tuesday, August 05, 2008 4:29 PM >> >>>> Subject: Re: [CREEK-SOUTHEAST] In looking >> for ancestors always >> >>>> checkoutArkansas, Louisiana and Texas >> >>>> >> >>>> >> >>>>> Richard T., when cooking the Opossom, >> I guess my ggrandmother forgot >> >>>>> to >> >>>>> "parboil" and went straight >> to the oven. Grease/oil level was half up >> >>>>> in >> >>>>> the baking pan, but I think they used >> to dip their homemade bread in >> >>>>> that. >> >>>>> That was one of the few foods I tried >> and did not acquire a taste for. >> >>>>> (too >> >>>>> much oil..). How do you get those >> roadkills to eat the >> >>>>> buttermilk/etc??? >> >>>>> >> >>>>> In locations for natives,.. remember >> that about 1817 was a treaty for >> >>>>> the >> >>>>> Cherokees (referred to as Old >> Settlers) to self emigrate to their >> >>>>> Reservation in north central Arkansas. >> (they stayed there until about >> >>>>> 1830) >> >>>>> when the reservation was dissolved in >> another treaty and the Old >> >>>>> Settlers >> >>>>> went to Ind Territory. 1817 look for >> "passport" allowing Inds >> >>>>> (reds...:o) >> >>>>> to travel. >> >>>>> >> >>>>> Sam Huston , the Texican, was very >> hooked to the Cherokees, he was >> >>>>> known >> >>>>> as >> >>>>> "The Raven" & book title >> same name , .. in his biography you see >> >>>>> much. >> >>>>> (one of my family names chief (John >> Jolly) , adopted him, but others >> >>>>> claim >> >>>>> not the same person. Neither of us >> can "proove" yes/no , but I have >> >>>>> some >> >>>>> paper trial for that!! >> >>>>> >> >>>>> Also, along with your good >> information, you did not mention 1811 >> >>>>> earthquake >> >>>>> SE Missouri "bootheel" , >> Cherokee living there with chief "Bowl" , >> >>>>> fled >> >>>>> to >> >>>>> TX , they considered the ground shake >> a bad medicine message or >> >>>>> something. >> >>>>> Quiz.. : Feds made 40 treaties with >> the Cherokee,.. how many of the >> >>>>> treaty >> >>>>> conditions were kept by this govt ?? >> (tune in this theatre next week >> >>>>> for >> >>>>> the answer..)!! >> >>>>> >> >>>>> Richard B. >> >>>>> >> >>>>> ----- Original Message ----- >> >>>>> From: <[email protected]> >> >>>>> To: >> <[email protected]> >> >>>>> Sent: Tuesday, August 05, 2008 12:22 >> PM >> >>>>> Subject: [CREEK-SOUTHEAST] In looking >> for ancestors always check >> >>>>> outArkansas, Louisiana and Texas >> >>>>> >> >>>>> >> >>>>>> The mention about the new museum >> In Fort Smith, AK reminded of >> >>>>>> something >> >>>>>> I >> >>>>>> discovered in my research in the >> past. I found that thousands and >> >>>>>> thousands >> >>>>>> of Creeks and Cherokees went west >> prior to the Trail of Tears in the >> >>>>>> late >> >>>>>> 1830s. Very few went initially to >> Oklahoma because it was claimed by >> >>>>>> other >> >>>>>> tribes. Cherokees and Upper >> Creeks often went to Arkansas, sometimes >> >>>>>> to >> >>>>>> Missouri. >> >>>>>> Lower Creeks, Alabamas, and >> Koasati's went to Louisiana, Texas and >> >>>>>> Mexico - >> >>>>>> perhaps also to the southern tip >> of Arkansas. Some Cherokees went >> >>>>>> to >> >>>>>> Texas >> >>>>>> and then to Mexico. Most >> Cherokees were chased out of Texas after >> >>>>>> it >> >>>>>> became a >> >>>>>> Republic. However, a considerable >> number of Alabamas, Koasati's and >> >>>>>> Lower >> >>>>>> Creeks were allowed to stay in >> Texas because they had fought along >> >>>>>> side >> >>>>>> the >> >>>>>> Texans against the Mexicans. >> >>>>>> >> >>>>>> As I mentioned last week, also >> look for Friendly "Georgia" Creeks in >> >>>>>> Texas. >> >>>>>> The Friendly (Hitchiti-speaking) >> Creeks were promised that they >> >>>>>> could >> >>>>>> keep >> >>>>>> their farms in Georgia and South >> Carolina, but many were either >> >>>>>> illegally >> >>>>>> dispossessed or felt insecure in >> an anti-Indian political >> >>>>>> environment. >> >>>>>> The >> >>>>>> Friendly Creeks carried with them >> a hybrid culture that was a >> >>>>>> mixture >> >>>>>> of >> >>>>>> the >> >>>>>> Mound-Builders and Scottish >> frontiersmen. Many also has aspirations >> >>>>>> of >> >>>>>> being >> >>>>>> planters or ranchers in Texas. >> Their descendants tended to blend in >> >>>>>> with >> >>>>>> the >> >>>>>> Texans since Creeks are not that >> different in appearance from >> >>>>>> Mexican >> >>>>>> Mestizos. >> >>>>>> >> >>>>>> Also, when planning to serve >> possum for prominent guests or wedding >> >>>>>> parties, >> >>>>>> be sure and feed the possum >> cornbread and buttermilk for a couple of >> >>>>>> weeks >> >>>>>> before dressing them. Parboiling >> the possum for awhile will get rid >> >>>>>> of >> >>>>>> the >> >>>>>> excess fat created by the >> cornbread and buttermilk. >> >>>>>> >> >>>>>> Richard T. >> >>>>>> >> >>>>>> >> >>>>>> >> >>>>>> **************Looking for a car >> that's sporty, fun and fits in your >> >>>>>> budget? >> >>>>>> Read reviews on AOL Autos. >> >>>>>> >> (http://autos.aol.com/cars-BMW-128-2008/expert-review?ncid=aolaut00050000000017 >> >>>>>> ) >> >>>>>> >> >>>>>> ------------------------------- >> >>>>>> To unsubscribe from the list, >> please send an email to >> >>>>>> >> [email protected] with the word >> 'unsubscribe' >> >>>>>> without >> >>>>>> the quotes in the subject and the >> body of the message >> >>>>>> >> >>>>>> >> >>>>>> >> >>>>>>> >> >>>>>> >> >>>>> >> >>>>> >> >>>>> >> >>>>> ------------------------------- >> >>>>> To unsubscribe from the list, please >> send an email to >> >>>>> [email protected] >> with the word 'unsubscribe' >> >>>>> without >> >>>>> the quotes in the subject and the body >> of the message >> >>>> >> >>>> >> >>>> >> >>>> ------------------------------- >> >>>> To unsubscribe from the list, please send >> an email to >> >>>> [email protected] with >> the word 'unsubscribe' >> >>>> without >> >>>> the quotes in the subject and the body of >> the message >> >>>> >> >>>> >> >>>> >> >>>> >> >>> >> >>> >> >>> >> >>> ------------------------------- >> >>> To unsubscribe from the list, please send an >> email to >> >>> [email protected] with the >> word 'unsubscribe' without >> >>> the quotes in the subject and the body of the >> message >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> ------------------------------- >> >> To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email >> to >> >> [email protected] with the word >> 'unsubscribe' without >> >> the quotes in the subject and the body of the >> message >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> > >> > >> > >> > ------------------------------- >> > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to >> > [email protected] with the word >> 'unsubscribe' without >> > the quotes in the subject and the body of the message >> >> >> >> ------------------------------- >> To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to >> [email protected] with the word >> 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and >> the body of the message > > > > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without > the quotes in the subject and the body of the message > > > >

Honea sounds like a Native American word, but I don't know anything about the town. **************Looking for a car that's sporty, fun and fits in your budget? Read reviews on AOL Autos. (http://autos.aol.com/cars-BMW-128-2008/expert-review?ncid=aolaut00050000000017 )

I suspected as much for SC. Is Honea Path, SC a town that was Indian? Suspect Honea is an Indian name. TT ----- Original Message ----- From: <[email protected]> To: <[email protected]> Sent: Friday, August 08, 2008 8:11 PM Subject: [CREEK-SOUTHEAST] Creeks in western SC and northeastern > >From what I could tell, the Creeks on both sides of the Savannah River > married back and forth during the 1800s. Abbeville, SC, Greenwood, SC, > Anderson, SC, Ninety-Six, SC. Hartwell, GA, Elberton, GA Hawkinsville, > GA, > Sparta, GA were locations where I frequently saw marital interchanges. > > Richard T. > > > > **************Looking for a car that's sporty, fun and fits in your > budget? > Read reviews on AOL Autos. > (http://autos.aol.com/cars-BMW-128-2008/expert-review?ncid=aolaut00050000000017 > ) > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without > the quotes in the subject and the body of the message >

>From what I could tell, the Creeks on both sides of the Savannah River married back and forth during the 1800s. Abbeville, SC, Greenwood, SC, Anderson, SC, Ninety-Six, SC. Hartwell, GA, Elberton, GA Hawkinsville, GA, Sparta, GA were locations where I frequently saw marital interchanges. Richard T. **************Looking for a car that's sporty, fun and fits in your budget? Read reviews on AOL Autos. (http://autos.aol.com/cars-BMW-128-2008/expert-review?ncid=aolaut00050000000017 )

unsubscribe. **************Looking for a car that's sporty, fun and fits in your budget? Read reviews on AOL Autos. (http://autos.aol.com/cars-BMW-128-2008/expert-review?ncid=aolaut00050000000017 )

i have read that the Cherokee Junaluska was said to have saved Andrew Jackson's life at the battle of Horseshoe Bend or that is what is the belief among members of the Eastern band of Cherokees --- On Wed, 8/6/08, csmoke <[email protected]> wrote: > From: csmoke <[email protected]> > Subject: Re: [CREEK-SOUTHEAST] Creek reserves > To: [email protected] > Date: Wednesday, August 6, 2008, 11:24 PM > Yes, I got that part , but the bounty lands I have seen > record of just > specified for military. (nothing I saw mentioned that this > land or reserve > "was for what we took away before" and this is a > token replacement... > > One bounty record that I did see was for the widow of > "Timpoochee" a.k.a. > english name John Barnard. This bounty was for > "Scar-Chee", widow of > Timpoochee. He was in the (forgive my historical..) > "Creek Wars" of > 1812-14, and she said he died summer of 1835. I recall > there was more Creek > war (1835??) and 36. Anyway , what I saw was the > application in the early > '1850s'. Would sure like to know if he died in > battle... > > Timpoochee , I may be related to and have researched him > much. He was 1/2 > english and mother full Euchee. I found another Euchee > woman in Creek > County, OK, in family history book , said that Timpoochee > was her > ggrandfather and "fire chief " "back east > before the removals. Timpoochee > was born about 1777 , son of englishman Timothy Barnard , > who set up trade > post Flint River , GA, (on Euchee land). Timpoochee led > 100 Euchee at the > battle of Horshoe Bend (against the Redsticks..????) and > saved the man > whoose face is printed on the american $20 bill (currently) > and responsible > for taking a large part getting the natives removed from > the east to the > west. Yuck. > > Richard B. > > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: <[email protected]> > To: <[email protected]> > Sent: Wednesday, August 06, 2008 8:47 PM > Subject: [CREEK-SOUTHEAST] Creek reserves > > > > Hey Richard B. > > > > Yes, that is what I was saying, these were reserves > granted to Friendly > > Creeks for service in the Revolutionary War, Cherokee > Wars and War of > > 1812. My > > ancestors received a 2000 acre reserve for being > scouts in the wars > > against > > the Cherokees and against the British. The > reparations were for farms > > taken > > illegally because of a law enacted by Georgia, that no > Indian could own > > land. > > The Friendly Creeks were theoretically State > Citizens and therefore not > > subject to removal to Alabama, Florida or Oklahoma. > Without warning, a > > troop > > of militia or a sheriff's posse' would show > up at a Friendly Creek's farm > > or > > plantation. The legal occupants would be evicted > without any > > compensation > > whatsoever, and marched at gun point to the nearest > state line. The > > county > > would then auction off the land to the highest > bidder. Generally, these > > dastardly acts were instigated by greedy planters who > wanted cheap land > > with which > > to expand their plantations - or county > commissioners, who needed to > > supplement their tax receipts. > > > > Richard T. > > > > > > > > **************Looking for a car that's sporty, fun > and fits in your > > budget? > > Read reviews on AOL Autos. > > > (http://autos.aol.com/cars-BMW-128-2008/expert-review?ncid=aolaut00050000000017 > > > ) > > > > ------------------------------- > > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > > [email protected] with the word > 'unsubscribe' without > > the quotes in the subject and the body of the message > > > > > > > > > > > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > [email protected] with the word > 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and > the body of the message

It is my understanding that when a tribe goes through the Federal recognition process with the B.I.A., they must prove that the majority of the tribe descends from Indian ancestors that were in a established community, that had political, social, cultural, and marriage ties to each other, and that the band must have established guidelines for membership requirements, and even such things as a break in leadership of the tribe can be a stumbling block in getting recognition, Once the tribe is given federal recognition the tribal roll is closed, and membership is generally only open to the direct descendants of people already listed on the roll. since some tribes such as the Mashantucket Pequot by passed the B.I.A. process their genealogies, political, social, cultural, and marriage ties did not come under any scrutiny --- On Thu, 8/7/08, [email protected] <[email protected]> wrote: > From: [email protected] <[email protected]> > Subject: [CREEK-SOUTHEAST] The Irony of Current Creek Membership > To: [email protected] > Date: Thursday, August 7, 2008, 11:26 AM > Obviously, the Poarch Creeks can not let every Tom, Dick or > Harry join the > tribe, because it could soon become anything BUT an > authentic Native American > organization. However ... > > I do think it is ironic that most Southeastern Creek > families spent 180 > years trying to hide their Native American heritage and > culture, and now many > people are desperately trying to proof Creek descent. > > Until very late in their lives, any time we asked my > grandparents about > their Indian heritage, my grandmother would snap back, > "I don't want to talk > about it. They treated us worse than the Coloreds." > Survival for Eastern > Creeks often mandated invisibility and/or intermarriage > with their European or > African neighbors. > > The fact is that when the Creeks were living as Creeks in > Creek communities, > membership in the community had nothing to do with race or > blood quantum. > For starters, the Creek Confederacy, or People of One Fire > was a political > alliance formed by the remnants of many provinces, that had > been decimated by > Spanish diseases & weapons, and then by > English-sponsored slave raids. People > speaking several languages and dialects came together and > chose Mvskoke as > their diplomatic and trade language.These different ethnic > groups looked > different and had varying cultural traditions. One of the > most powerful Creek > towns, Tuckabachee, had originally been a Shawnee town. > > Even prior to the formation of the Creek Confederacy, > there had been > substantial gene infusions. There is a lot of evidence > that Mesoamerican refugees > arrived from time to time in the Southeast and blended > their genes and > culture with the Muskogeans. There is some evidence of > small bands of Northern > Europeans being absorbed into the Muskogean gene pool > 1000-2000 years ago. > Thousands of Muskogean women were ravaged by conquistadors > in the 1500s and 1600s. > There are historical records of Moors, Sephardic Jews and > Portuguese men > escaping Spanish expeditions and colonies to join the > Muskogeans. By 1700 AD, > many, if not most, Creeks carried some European and/or > African genes. The > reason was that mixed-blood Creeks were far more likely to > survive a European > plague than a full blood. There are many examples of pure > European men and > women being invited to become members of a tribal town in > the 1700s. Several > rose to positions of leadership. Their fellow Creeks > considered them Creeks. > > So when one talks about a "full-blooded" Creek or > Cherokee in the 1800s, we > are not talking about them being the same people, > genetically, as the > indigenous people first met by the de Soto Expedition. > They were merely mixed-gene > members of a Creek tribal town, when the federal government > first began > conducting censuses of Native Americans. > > Richard T. > > > > **************Looking for a car that's sporty, fun and > fits in your budget? > Read reviews on AOL Autos. > (http://autos.aol.com/cars-BMW-128-2008/expert-review?ncid=aolaut00050000000017 > ) > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > [email protected] with the word > 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and > the body of the message

I know after reading the information provided by some of my grandmothers relatives to the Dawes comission for creek Citizenship, and the number of witnesses that testified that they knew the family to be Indian, and descended from a Creek Indian named Samuel Low, the Dawes comission rejected the family. --- On Thu, 8/7/08, Evelyn S. Leslie <[email protected]> wrote: > From: Evelyn S. Leslie <[email protected]> > Subject: [CREEK-SOUTHEAST] Understanding Rolls and Reserves > To: [email protected] > Date: Thursday, August 7, 2008, 2:23 PM > Kathie made a comment the other day concerning the Dawes > Rolls: <This is complicated. If you are trying to > understand it, let's keep with it until we all > understand. > > Kathie > > > Boy, did she ever hit the nail on the head, and Kathie, I > would like to add Reserves to that, also. Do you have a > listing for the different land reserves "given" > (for want of a better description) to different Creek groups > following various treaties and the years they were given? > The only one I have plenty of information on at my > fingertips in my own files are the 30 reserves given to > "certain friendly Chiefs and Indian countrymen" in > 1817 for their service in the Creek war 1813-1814. The > reason I have studied that one so much is because that > happens to be my south Alabama family. However, I did have > some in the 1830 (or 32?) reserves, also, but just piecemeal > names and info and not a complete list. I have nothing on > the Georgia Creeks and who received what and when. Were the > same stipulations attached to each one, or did they change > with each treaty as land was relinquished? There again, I > know how it worked with the 1817 land but not the others. > > Also, one comment about the Dawes rolls. The testimony > contained in some of the jackets for later descendants > attempting to get enrolled in the Creek Nation West is > heartbreaking. Some of them had been there ever since the > removal or before while it was voluntary, but the Dawes > Commission was totally heartless in their interviews and > browbeat them so I'm surprised they could remember their > own names. All that before telling many of them they were > not eligible - so sad. > > Thanks! > Evelyn Leslie > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > [email protected] with the word > 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and > the body of the message

We must keep in mind that the term wannabe is a negative word that is often used by Native americans that have obtained Federal recognition, to describe anyone that is of indian descent who does not have Federal recognition or a C.D.I.B. card. THe federally Recognized Cherokee bands, view any state recognized cherokee band as being wannabe/phony, the Creek Bands who have Federal recognition have the same viewpoint towards any state recognized group. --- On Thu, 8/7/08, Sam Gipson <[email protected]> wrote: > From: Sam Gipson <[email protected]> > Subject: Re: [CREEK-SOUTHEAST] In looking forancestorsalwayscheckoutArkansas, Louisiana and Texas > To: [email protected] > Date: Thursday, August 7, 2008, 2:41 PM > Thanks Richard B, > No the tribe is not State or Federally listed on the rolls. > May be one you can buy a membership into. > Look up Lost Cherokee Tribe, Arkansas and Missouri. > > I have some errands to run and will find the site for you > to check out. > > Tks, Sam I know they do not make and sell NA jewelry. > > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "csmoke" <[email protected]> > To: <[email protected]> > Sent: Wednesday, August 06, 2008 11:21 PM > Subject: Re: [CREEK-SOUTHEAST] In looking > forancestorsalwayscheckoutArkansas,Louisiana and Texas > > > > Sam, > > I did not think they are recognized, but I do not have > a need to know on > > that one. > > > > There were some very early Cherokees settled vicinity > of Dover... (I'm > > getting a vision..)...:o) a significant school or > church situation. This > > is central to the area that John Jolly (chief of the > Old Settlers) 1828/29 > > , > > was located (he maybe my connection, plus where Sam > Huston "holed up" > > before going on to his fame in TX ) and due south of > there on the Arkansas > > River is a large population of Cheroks and a very old > Cherokee cemetery on > > the bluffs above the river. > > By the way, these places are getting in the > neighborhood of where my > > "pioneers" (Thomas Clark from TN in 1853/or > 54) began,... in extreme > > southwest Newton County , AR. Am probably related to > Merle Haggard, he > > claims to be from same place. Everybody (!!) is cuzn > there. There are > > some > > folks that area who quit talking to me about genealogy > (their ancestors > > murdered my gggrandfather Thomas Clark, spring 1863). > As I took apart the > > last threads of information,... I had it and they just > "shut up". > > > > If anyone encounters some research on a battle/attack > (1st week of > > February > > , 1863) involving 7 members of the union 1st AR CAV , > at Mulberry Springs, > > AR, I surely would be interested. It was an attack on > a log "compound" > > against 35 Mankins or Manican Indians. I have looked > some and believe > > these Manikin/Mankins are originally from/part of the > Powhatans in easter > > Virginia ??). The inhabitants of the compound were > paid partisans , hired > > by Peter Mankins. I have read the military record, > but hope there is more > > info "out there". > > > > Richard B. > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > From: "Sam Gipson" > <[email protected]> > > To: <[email protected]> > > Sent: Wednesday, August 06, 2008 8:52 PM > > Subject: Re: [CREEK-SOUTHEAST] In looking > > forancestorsalwayscheckoutArkansas, Louisiana and > Texas > > > > > >> Thanks Richard B., > >> He is legit. His Uncle and Aunt are on the rolls > and so was his grand > >> parents and parents. > >> His brother also. > >> I understand the situation on the wanta bees. > >> But, it is listed as the Lost Cherokee Nation, > with no benefits, or > >> Federal > >> recognition. > >> Arkansas and Missouri. > >> The main office use to be in Clinton, Ark. and has > now moved to Dover, > >> Ark. > >> if I am not mistaken. > >> Thank you, my friend. > >> > >> Sam > >> ----- Original Message ----- > >> From: "csmoke" > <[email protected]> > >> To: <[email protected]> > >> Sent: Wednesday, August 06, 2008 7:56 PM > >> Subject: Re: [CREEK-SOUTHEAST] In looking for > >> ancestorsalwayscheckoutArkansas, Louisiana and > Texas > >> > >> > >>> Sam, > >>> Not to disappoint, but there are many (many) > wannabe fraudlent groups in > >>> the > >>> area you mention. Before you recognize them, > you might want to find a > >>> site > >>> that lists all the federally recognized tribes > and see if the group you > >>> mention is on the list. > >>> > >>> I have "bumped" into some of these > people and it is disturbing to see > >>> them > >>> using "enrollement cards" with > numbers of their own manufacture. Part > >>> of > >>> the issue for me ( and others..) is they refer > to themselves as Cherokee > >>> tribe and represent craft work (with logos..) > as authentic native > >>> american. > >>> To become one of them, the usually needed > genealogy is a $20 /or check > >>> made > >>> out to them. I have not been arround any of > them for a while (they got > >>> to > >>> know me..) , but I suspect they are still > getting a high level of > >>> membership > >>> enrollment. Most of their starting dialog > with strangers is" we are > >>> descended from Inds who jumped off the > boats,.. my ancestors escaped > >>> from > >>> the trail of tears.." (thats why we are > here, etc..) Yuck. > >>> > >>> Richard B. > >>> > >>> ----- Original Message ----- > >>> From: "Sam Gipson" > <[email protected]> > >>> To: <[email protected]> > >>> Sent: Tuesday, August 05, 2008 8:09 PM > >>> Subject: Re: [CREEK-SOUTHEAST] In looking for > ancestors > >>> alwayscheckoutArkansas, Louisiana and Texas > >>> > >>> > >>>> Richard B, > >>>> I believe the Cherokee's in Ark. and > Missouri, are referred to as the > >>>> Lost > >>>> Cherokee Tribe. A friend has his card, > Lost Cherokee Tribe. (Arkansas > >>>> and > >>>> Missouri) > >>>> > >>>> Thanks, Sam > >>>> > >>>> > >>>> ----- Original Message ----- > >>>> From: "csmoke" > <[email protected]> > >>>> To: <[email protected]> > >>>> Sent: Tuesday, August 05, 2008 4:29 PM > >>>> Subject: Re: [CREEK-SOUTHEAST] In looking > for ancestors always > >>>> checkoutArkansas, Louisiana and Texas > >>>> > >>>> > >>>>> Richard T., when cooking the Opossom, > I guess my ggrandmother forgot > >>>>> to > >>>>> "parboil" and went straight > to the oven. Grease/oil level was half up > >>>>> in > >>>>> the baking pan, but I think they used > to dip their homemade bread in > >>>>> that. > >>>>> That was one of the few foods I tried > and did not acquire a taste for. > >>>>> (too > >>>>> much oil..). How do you get those > roadkills to eat the > >>>>> buttermilk/etc??? > >>>>> > >>>>> In locations for natives,.. remember > that about 1817 was a treaty for > >>>>> the > >>>>> Cherokees (referred to as Old > Settlers) to self emigrate to their > >>>>> Reservation in north central Arkansas. > (they stayed there until about > >>>>> 1830) > >>>>> when the reservation was dissolved in > another treaty and the Old > >>>>> Settlers > >>>>> went to Ind Territory. 1817 look for > "passport" allowing Inds > >>>>> (reds...:o) > >>>>> to travel. > >>>>> > >>>>> Sam Huston , the Texican, was very > hooked to the Cherokees, he was > >>>>> known > >>>>> as > >>>>> "The Raven" & book title > same name , .. in his biography you see > >>>>> much. > >>>>> (one of my family names chief (John > Jolly) , adopted him, but others > >>>>> claim > >>>>> not the same person. Neither of us > can "proove" yes/no , but I have > >>>>> some > >>>>> paper trial for that!! > >>>>> > >>>>> Also, along with your good > information, you did not mention 1811 > >>>>> earthquake > >>>>> SE Missouri "bootheel" , > Cherokee living there with chief "Bowl" , > >>>>> fled > >>>>> to > >>>>> TX , they considered the ground shake > a bad medicine message or > >>>>> something. > >>>>> Quiz.. : Feds made 40 treaties with > the Cherokee,.. how many of the > >>>>> treaty > >>>>> conditions were kept by this govt ?? > (tune in this theatre next week > >>>>> for > >>>>> the answer..)!! > >>>>> > >>>>> Richard B. > >>>>> > >>>>> ----- Original Message ----- > >>>>> From: <[email protected]> > >>>>> To: > <[email protected]> > >>>>> Sent: Tuesday, August 05, 2008 12:22 > PM > >>>>> Subject: [CREEK-SOUTHEAST] In looking > for ancestors always check > >>>>> outArkansas, Louisiana and Texas > >>>>> > >>>>> > >>>>>> The mention about the new museum > In Fort Smith, AK reminded of > >>>>>> something > >>>>>> I > >>>>>> discovered in my research in the > past. I found that thousands and > >>>>>> thousands > >>>>>> of Creeks and Cherokees went west > prior to the Trail of Tears in the > >>>>>> late > >>>>>> 1830s. Very few went initially to > Oklahoma because it was claimed by > >>>>>> other > >>>>>> tribes. Cherokees and Upper > Creeks often went to Arkansas, sometimes > >>>>>> to > >>>>>> Missouri. > >>>>>> Lower Creeks, Alabamas, and > Koasati's went to Louisiana, Texas and > >>>>>> Mexico - > >>>>>> perhaps also to the southern tip > of Arkansas. Some Cherokees went > >>>>>> to > >>>>>> Texas > >>>>>> and then to Mexico. Most > Cherokees were chased out of Texas after > >>>>>> it > >>>>>> became a > >>>>>> Republic. However, a considerable > number of Alabamas, Koasati's and > >>>>>> Lower > >>>>>> Creeks were allowed to stay in > Texas because they had fought along > >>>>>> side > >>>>>> the > >>>>>> Texans against the Mexicans. > >>>>>> > >>>>>> As I mentioned last week, also > look for Friendly "Georgia" Creeks in > >>>>>> Texas. > >>>>>> The Friendly (Hitchiti-speaking) > Creeks were promised that they > >>>>>> could > >>>>>> keep > >>>>>> their farms in Georgia and South > Carolina, but many were either > >>>>>> illegally > >>>>>> dispossessed or felt insecure in > an anti-Indian political > >>>>>> environment. > >>>>>> The > >>>>>> Friendly Creeks carried with them > a hybrid culture that was a > >>>>>> mixture > >>>>>> of > >>>>>> the > >>>>>> Mound-Builders and Scottish > frontiersmen. Many also has aspirations > >>>>>> of > >>>>>> being > >>>>>> planters or ranchers in Texas. > Their descendants tended to blend in > >>>>>> with > >>>>>> the > >>>>>> Texans since Creeks are not that > different in appearance from > >>>>>> Mexican > >>>>>> Mestizos. > >>>>>> > >>>>>> Also, when planning to serve > possum for prominent guests or wedding > >>>>>> parties, > >>>>>> be sure and feed the possum > cornbread and buttermilk for a couple of > >>>>>> weeks > >>>>>> before dressing them. Parboiling > the possum for awhile will get rid > >>>>>> of > >>>>>> the > >>>>>> excess fat created by the > cornbread and buttermilk. > >>>>>> > >>>>>> Richard T. > >>>>>> > >>>>>> > >>>>>> > >>>>>> **************Looking for a car > that's sporty, fun and fits in your > >>>>>> budget? > >>>>>> Read reviews on AOL Autos. > >>>>>> > (http://autos.aol.com/cars-BMW-128-2008/expert-review?ncid=aolaut00050000000017 > >>>>>> ) > >>>>>> > >>>>>> ------------------------------- > >>>>>> To unsubscribe from the list, > please send an email to > >>>>>> > [email protected] with the word > 'unsubscribe' > >>>>>> without > >>>>>> the quotes in the subject and the > body of the message > >>>>>> > >>>>>> > >>>>>> > >>>>>>> > >>>>>> > >>>>> > >>>>> > >>>>> > >>>>> ------------------------------- > >>>>> To unsubscribe from the list, please > send an email to > >>>>> [email protected] > with the word 'unsubscribe' > >>>>> without > >>>>> the quotes in the subject and the body > of the message > >>>> > >>>> > >>>> > >>>> ------------------------------- > >>>> To unsubscribe from the list, please send > an email to > >>>> [email protected] with > the word 'unsubscribe' > >>>> without > >>>> the quotes in the subject and the body of > the message > >>>> > >>>> > >>>> > >>>> > >>> > >>> > >>> > >>> ------------------------------- > >>> To unsubscribe from the list, please send an > email to > >>> [email protected] with the > word 'unsubscribe' without > >>> the quotes in the subject and the body of the > message > >> > >> > >> > >> ------------------------------- > >> To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email > to > >> [email protected] with the word > 'unsubscribe' without > >> the quotes in the subject and the body of the > message > >> > >> > >> > >> > > > > > > > > ------------------------------- > > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > > [email protected] with the word > 'unsubscribe' without > > the quotes in the subject and the body of the message > > > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > [email protected] with the word > 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and > the body of the message

Very familiar with Ninety Six, SC. Sold insurance there and was at one time a mill town. I wanted to see if I could trace some steps of the Dees and Timothy's that apparently came out of SC. I saw where some of my Dees had been born in GA and my great great grand daddy, Jessie Dees was listed as being born, along with his wife, in SC. I thought I might look on the internet for the common county in GA for possibilities, or when can, go in person to see their files. ----- Original Message ----- From: <[email protected]> To: <[email protected]> Sent: Friday, August 08, 2008 12:37 PM Subject: Re: [CREEK-SOUTHEAST] SC Indians to GA on to AL > > In a message dated 8/8/2008 11:26:06 A.M. Eastern Standard Time, > [email protected] writes: > > Does anyone know where the Georgia collection point was, or counties, > most > SC Indian migrates assembled in prior to ending up in Monroe County AL? > TT > > > > During the "Indian Removal Period" it was Fort Mitchell, AL across from > Columbus, GA > > However, the purges against Friendly Creeks continued almost until the eve > of the Civil War. Illegally evicted Creek families were marched to the > nearest state line by militia units or sheriff's posses. My family fled > several > times to Ninety-Six, SC when things got nasty in Georgia. > > Richard T. > > > > **************Looking for a car that's sporty, fun and fits in your > budget? > Read reviews on AOL Autos. > (http://autos.aol.com/cars-BMW-128-2008/expert-review?ncid=aolaut00050000000017 > ) > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without > the quotes in the subject and the body of the message >

Tim, I'm not sure I can answer that but want to add that many Pulaski Co. GA people had mixed blood and ended up in Ala, MOnroe, Conecuh Co. were some. many of these families were mixed Creek or Lumbee from NC ----- Original Message ----- From: "Tim Timothy" <[email protected]> To: <[email protected]> Sent: Friday, August 08, 2008 8:34 AM Subject: [CREEK-SOUTHEAST] SC Indians to GA on to AL > Does anyone know where the Georgia collection point was, or counties, > most SC Indian migrates assembled in prior to ending up in Monroe County > AL? TT > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without > the quotes in the subject and the body of the message >

Richard, If I remember correctly, I believe in the 1700's when John lawson traveled through the Carolinas visiting different tribes and villages, one thing he noticed was that no matter which tribe or village or remote the location he found the same thing in each village mixed-blooded children. --- On Thu, 8/7/08, [email protected] <[email protected]> wrote: > From: [email protected] <[email protected]> > Subject: Re: [CREEK-SOUTHEAST] CREEK-SOUTHEAST Digest, Vol 3, Issue 278 > To: [email protected] > Date: Thursday, August 7, 2008, 3:24 PM > Oh, I totally agree with you about the blood quantum issue. > It is the craziest thing considering the majority of the > people on the base roll were of "mixed blood". > Most on the base roll, when it was first established, were > closer to 1/4-1/8 (if that much) than full blood. > > Amanda > > > ------------------------------ > > > > Message: 4 > > Date: Thu, 7 Aug 2008 11:26:48 EDT > > From: [email protected] > > Subject: [CREEK-SOUTHEAST] The Irony of Current Creek > Membership > > To: [email protected] > > Message-ID: > > Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" > > > > > Obviously, the Poarch Creeks can not let every Tom, > Dick or Harry join the > > tribe, because it could soon become anything BUT an > authentic Native American > > organization. However ... > > > > I do think it is ironic that most Southeastern Creek > families spent 180 > > years trying to hide their Native American heritage > and culture, and now many > > people are desperately trying to proof Creek descent. > > > > Until very late in their lives, any time we asked my > grandparents about > > their Indian heritage, my grandmother would snap back, > "I don't want to talk > > about it. They treated us worse than the > Coloreds." Survival for Eastern > > Creeks often mandated invisibility and/or > intermarriage with their European or > > African neighbors. > > > > The fact is that when the Creeks were living as Creeks > in Creek communities, > > membership in the community had nothing to do with > race or blood quantum. > > For starters, the Creek Confederacy, or People of One > Fire was a political > > alliance formed by the remnants of many provinces, > that had been decimated by > > Spanish diseases & weapons, and then by > English-sponsored slave raids. People > > speaking several languages and dialects came together > and chose Mvskoke as > > their diplomatic and trade language.These different > ethnic groups looked > > different and had varying cultural traditions. One of > the most powerful Creek > > towns, Tuckabachee, had originally been a Shawnee > town. > > > > Even prior to the formation of the Creek Confederacy, > there had been > > substantial gene infusions. There is a lot of evidence > that Mesoamerican > > refugees > > arrived from time to time in the Southeast and blended > their genes and > > culture with the Muskogeans. There is some evidence of > small bands of Northern > > Europeans being absorbed into the Muskogean gene pool > 1000-2000 years ago. > > Thousands of Muskogean women were ravaged by > conquistadors in the 1500s and > > 1600s. > > There are historical records of Moors, Sephardic Jews > and Portuguese men > > escaping Spanish expeditions and colonies to join the > Muskogeans. By 1700 AD, > > many, if not most, Creeks carried some European and/or > African genes. The > > reason was that mixed-blood Creeks were far more > likely to survive a European > > plague than a full blood. There are many examples of > pure European men and > > women being invited to become members of a tribal town > in the 1700s. Several > > rose to positions of leadership. Their fellow Creeks > considered them Creeks. > > > > So when one talks about a "full-blooded" > Creek or Cherokee in the 1800s, we > > are not talking about them being the same people, > genetically, as the > > indigenous people first met by the de Soto Expedition. > They were merely > > mixed-gene > > members of a Creek tribal town, when the federal > government first began > > conducting censuses of Native Americans. > > > > Richard T. > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > [email protected] with the word > 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and > the body of the message

In a message dated 8/8/2008 11:26:06 A.M. Eastern Standard Time, [email protected] writes: Does anyone know where the Georgia collection point was, or counties, most SC Indian migrates assembled in prior to ending up in Monroe County AL? TT During the "Indian Removal Period" it was Fort Mitchell, AL across from Columbus, GA However, the purges against Friendly Creeks continued almost until the eve of the Civil War. Illegally evicted Creek families were marched to the nearest state line by militia units or sheriff's posses. My family fled several times to Ninety-Six, SC when things got nasty in Georgia. Richard T. **************Looking for a car that's sporty, fun and fits in your budget? Read reviews on AOL Autos. (http://autos.aol.com/cars-BMW-128-2008/expert-review?ncid=aolaut00050000000017 )

Does anyone know where the Georgia collection point was, or counties, most SC Indian migrates assembled in prior to ending up in Monroe County AL? TT

The new location is much easier to get to than the old site in East Point. And it is adjacent to the Georgia Archives. Dot Hope At 12:29 AM 8/7/2008 -0500, you wrote: >No longer in East Point. Here is new information: > >5780 Jonesboro Road >Morrow, Georgia 30260 >Phone: 770-968-2100 >Fax: 770-968-2547 > >Email: [email protected] > > > > > > > >----- Original Message ----- >From: <[email protected]> >To: <[email protected]> >Sent: Wednesday, August 06, 2008 9:50 PM >Subject: [CREEK-SOUTHEAST] Federal archives > > > > The Federal Archives are in East Point, GA - not too far south from > > Downtown > > Atlanta and a few miles north of the Atlanta Airport. > > > >------------------------------- >To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to >[email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without >the quotes in the subject and the body of the message

This is a Message Board Post that is gatewayed to this mailing list. Author: laingram Surnames: Walker Classification: queries Message Board URL: http://boards.rootsweb.com/localities.northam.usa.special.secreeks/3018.1/mb.ashx Message Board Post: http://www.poarchcreekindians.org/ If you click on the culture link, you will learn a little about the history of the Poarch Band of Creek Indians in Atmore, AL. The history talks about Fred Walker, who was their leader from abt. 1885 to 1941. Hope this helps you out a bit. Amanda Important Note: The author of this message may not be subscribed to this list. If you would like to reply to them, please click on the Message Board URL link above and respond on the board.

Oh, I totally agree with you about the blood quantum issue. It is the craziest thing considering the majority of the people on the base roll were of "mixed blood". Most on the base roll, when it was first established, were closer to 1/4-1/8 (if that much) than full blood. Amanda > ------------------------------ > > Message: 4 > Date: Thu, 7 Aug 2008 11:26:48 EDT > From: [email protected] > Subject: [CREEK-SOUTHEAST] The Irony of Current Creek Membership > To: [email protected] > Message-ID: > Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" > > Obviously, the Poarch Creeks can not let every Tom, Dick or Harry join the > tribe, because it could soon become anything BUT an authentic Native American > organization. However ... > > I do think it is ironic that most Southeastern Creek families spent 180 > years trying to hide their Native American heritage and culture, and now many > people are desperately trying to proof Creek descent. > > Until very late in their lives, any time we asked my grandparents about > their Indian heritage, my grandmother would snap back, "I don't want to talk > about it. They treated us worse than the Coloreds." Survival for Eastern > Creeks often mandated invisibility and/or intermarriage with their European or > African neighbors. > > The fact is that when the Creeks were living as Creeks in Creek communities, > membership in the community had nothing to do with race or blood quantum. > For starters, the Creek Confederacy, or People of One Fire was a political > alliance formed by the remnants of many provinces, that had been decimated by > Spanish diseases & weapons, and then by English-sponsored slave raids. People > speaking several languages and dialects came together and chose Mvskoke as > their diplomatic and trade language.These different ethnic groups looked > different and had varying cultural traditions. One of the most powerful Creek > towns, Tuckabachee, had originally been a Shawnee town. > > Even prior to the formation of the Creek Confederacy, there had been > substantial gene infusions. There is a lot of evidence that Mesoamerican > refugees > arrived from time to time in the Southeast and blended their genes and > culture with the Muskogeans. There is some evidence of small bands of Northern > Europeans being absorbed into the Muskogean gene pool 1000-2000 years ago. > Thousands of Muskogean women were ravaged by conquistadors in the 1500s and > 1600s. > There are historical records of Moors, Sephardic Jews and Portuguese men > escaping Spanish expeditions and colonies to join the Muskogeans. By 1700 AD, > many, if not most, Creeks carried some European and/or African genes. The > reason was that mixed-blood Creeks were far more likely to survive a European > plague than a full blood. There are many examples of pure European men and > women being invited to become members of a tribal town in the 1700s. Several > rose to positions of leadership. Their fellow Creeks considered them Creeks. > > So when one talks about a "full-blooded" Creek or Cherokee in the 1800s, we > are not talking about them being the same people, genetically, as the > indigenous people first met by the de Soto Expedition. They were merely > mixed-gene > members of a Creek tribal town, when the federal government first began > conducting censuses of Native Americans. > > Richard T.

This is a Message Board Post that is gatewayed to this mailing list. Author: serenity551 Surnames: Walker/Big Warrior Classification: queries Message Board URL: http://boards.rootsweb.com/localities.northam.usa.special.secreeks/3018/mb.ashx Message Board Post: My husbands uncle was named Garfie Walker, in the 80s or 90s he was appointed the chief of Creek Indians of a certain part of Alabama in Atmore, Alabama. I am looking for information on his Creek heritage is for my husband. We have been unable to obtain any information from his uncle's family. My husband was led to believe that his family are descendents of Big Warrior of Alabama. I would truly appreciate any information to share with my husband. He has cirrhosses of the Liver and may not be able to get the surgery in time to save him. I would be personally appreciative of any help. Important Note: The author of this message may not be subscribed to this list. If you would like to reply to them, please click on the Message Board URL link above and respond on the board.