I agree with your statements. I met an Indian teenager, Choctaw, while on vacation in Philadelphia, Neshoba Co, Miss. They had government built houses. But, over 1/2 of them had the screens off the windows, needed painting, broken windows, screens off of the doors. Cats, dogs, chickens, etc, running the yard and houses. That was in 1957. 2004, I went to a family reunion there. Things have improved and only 5 or 6 run down houses on the Res. Most were wonderful looking. Some brick, some wood, and some with siding. Tribal Police did not want you going even 2 miles over the posted speed limits. They warned visitor's, that speeding would not be tolerated. I understand and appreciate that. The Choctaws, have a nice hotel and casino. Great looking inside and outside. Thanks, Sam ----- Original Message ----- From: "Leon Beard" <[email protected]> To: <[email protected]> Sent: Saturday, August 16, 2008 3:44 PM Subject: Re: [CREEK-SOUTHEAST] Cherokee-Creek relations after the Trail ofTears > I'm always amazed at the people who assume Native people live exactly like > our ancestors did 300 years ago, or like from a scene in a western film. > Back in the 1980's while living on Qualla Boundary a white lady stopped me > and asked me where all the Indians were at, So I told her she was a week > two late, the soldiers had come through and massacred the entire tribe. > I mean their were Indians everywhere on the reservation, she just didn't > realize that they were mixed-blooded and dressed like other Americans. > > > --- On Fri, 8/15/08, [email protected] <[email protected]> wrote: > >> From: [email protected] <[email protected]> >> Subject: Re: [CREEK-SOUTHEAST] Cherokee-Creek relations after the Trail >> of Tears >> To: [email protected] >> Date: Friday, August 15, 2008, 3:09 PM >> I know that I am getting off the subject of this thread but, >> I wanted to >> voice my opinion on the Cherokee, NC scenario. >> >> My "favorite" thing when we go there, is to watch >> the "authentic Cherokees" >> in their Cherokee regalia complete right down to the >> genuine war bonnets >> dancing beside their teepees (of course) with their tip jar >> placed closeby. >> >> The last time we were there, one tourist actually was upset >> because she was >> worrying about them having to live on the street in those >> teepees without any >> conveniences and couldn't be convinced that they >> didn't. >> >> I guess if the tourists are gullible enough to swallow it, >> go for it! >> >> Oh, well, enough said, and I won't bring it up again! >> >> JR >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> **************Looking for a car that's sporty, fun and >> fits in your budget? >> Read reviews on AOL Autos. >> (http://autos.aol.com/cars-Volkswagen-Jetta-2009/expert-review?ncid=aolaut00030000000007 >> ) >> >> ------------------------------- >> To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to >> [email protected] with the word >> 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and >> the body of the message > > > > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without > the quotes in the subject and the body of the message

I knew some of the Husky family in Swain co. Some of them are Indians listed on the rolls and connected to the Taylor and Lambert families. I'm descended from the Thompson, Crisp, Mashburn, Rogers, Blanton, and Thomas families. also descended from the Noland, Fish, Lowe, Mills, Ensley, Harris, Crawford, and Messer families in Haywood & Jackson Counties... The Lowe family is where my Creek ancestry is from. --- On Sat, 8/16/08, csmoke <[email protected]> wrote: > From: csmoke <[email protected]> > Subject: Re: [CREEK-SOUTHEAST] How do I know about what's happening inWestern North Carolina > To: [email protected], [email protected] > Date: Saturday, August 16, 2008, 5:11 PM > Leon, > My mother's family line (Reagan / Husky) emigrated from > Swain County (N.C.) > , early 1890 or so to Arkansas. Some other family marriage > connects there > would have been (distant..) Ogle and Emmert. Some of these > related people > applied (east vicinity of Gatlinburg, TN.) to the Baker > Roll , referred to > the Husky (Huskey) with their applications. The white man > and the natives > did not want them, they lived on the wrong place then. > Nothing has changed. > :o) > > Richard B. > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Leon Beard" > <[email protected]> > To: <[email protected]> > Sent: Saturday, August 16, 2008 3:38 PM > Subject: Re: [CREEK-SOUTHEAST] How do I know about > what's happening > inWestern North Carolina > > > > Richard, > > I hate that you had that experience while on > Qualla boundary, I was > > there around the last part of December, and all I > encountered was a > > Cherokee woman working in the gas station was a sullen > bored attitude. > > I know that many young Cherokees are taught arts & > Crafts in the schools, > > even the Indian kids who go to the Non-reservation > schools in the > > surrounding communities have the opportunities to > learn native crafts, or > > they use to when I went to school in swain co. > > The sad thing is that most people can not make a > living on just the arts > > and crafts making, they just do it for surplus money, > and they can spend > > hours woodcarving, or making a basket and receive > little from the > > shopkeepers who offer them a little money, then turn > around and double or > > triple their money selling the basket or woodcarving. > > > > > > --- On Fri, 8/15/08, [email protected] > <[email protected]> > > wrote: > > > >> From: [email protected] > <[email protected]> > >> Subject: [CREEK-SOUTHEAST] How do I know about > what's happening in > >> Western North Carolina > >> To: [email protected] > >> Date: Friday, August 15, 2008, 3:11 PM > >> How do I know about the Russia Mafia being in > Cherokee and > >> Asheville? > >> Remember I had a pretty prominent position in > Asheville and > >> still have friends > >> there, who are in the know. Actually, I was a > highly > >> respected professional > >> until the year 2000 when a certain political > change took > >> place! LOL The last > >> time I was in Asheville (last November) a close > friend > >> point blank told me that > >> the Russians are taking over Asheville and already > run > >> Cherokee from behind > >> the scenes. Most of his appraisals recently were > for > >> Russian Nationals moving > >> to Western North Carolina. > >> > >> Many moons ago, before I even moved to Asheville, > I was a > >> consultant to the > >> Cherokee Housing Authority and through the years > have made > >> friends on the > >> Qualla Boundary. Last summer I decided to go > hiking on my > >> birthday, and then > >> stop by afterward to visit with old Cherokee > friends, who > >> made the best > >> barbecue around. Their old restaurant had been > torn down > >> and replaced with a fancy > >> new one in a shopping center. > >> > >> Before eating, I walked around the strip shopping > area, > >> looking for a > >> birthday gift for my sister - who was born in late > August. > >> Every single store I > >> visited was staffed and managed by Slavic > personnel. I > >> finally stopped a > >> Cherokee lady on the street, and told her I was > Creek. > >> Where are the Cherokees? > >> She said that they don't work in town anymore. > A few > >> worked at the casino, > >> but there were getting to be less and less. Of > course, > >> the Qualla Arts > >> Gallery was staffed by Cherokees, but that was it. > I > >> bought a gift for my sister > >> there, since there stuff were the only > "real" > >> looking things in town. > >> > >> I then drove back the barbecue restaurant, I > walked in and > >> didn't see a > >> Native American in the place - either eating or > working. > >> Two Scandinavian looking > >> gals (college age) were the hostesses. I asked > them in > >> English, if they were > >> Swedish (Jag taler svenska) They said they were > college > >> students from > >> "Southern" Russia. I thought that was > strange > >> since the southern Russians tend to > >> look Middle Eastern. > >> > >> My waitress was from Brazil. I asked her what had > happened > >> to all my > >> Cherokee friends that had worked there for two > decades. She > >> said that when the > >> Russians bought the restaurant three years ago, > all the > >> Cherokees had been fired. > >> In fact, she was only person they kept. The > manager was > >> from Poland. All the > >> other employees were from Russia, Ukraine or > Poland. She > >> said that was pretty > >> much the situation in all the stores and > restaurants. She > >> also was on a > >> student visa, but had never attended college. The > Russian > >> owner got her card > >> renewed each year. A little later, I glanced back > into the > >> kitchen and did see a > >> Cherokee teenager working! He was washing dishes. > >> > >> The barbecue was as great as ever. A free ice > cream came > >> with the meal. It > >> was served by the blond girls from "Southern > >> Russia." As I was walking up to > >> the ice cream counter, I heard them speaking a > dialect of > >> Finnish. I said > >> about the only words I remembered in Finish from > my days > >> of working in Sweden - > >> for "hello." That is absolutely all I > said, > >> other than I would like two > >> scoops of butter pecan ice cream in English. They > freaked > >> out. One raced back to > >> the kitchen while the other nervously scooped my > ice cream > >> order. > >> > >> Within a minute or so, a big, black limousine > roared up to > >> the front door of > >> the restaurant. A big, puffy-faced, evil-looking > Russian > >> got out. He peeked > >> in the door and said something to the Russian > girls or > >> wherever they were > >> really from. Moments later, three Cherokee Tribal > Police > >> cruisers and a SWAT > >> squad SUV flew into the parking lot, lights > flashing. The > >> four police officers > >> chatted briefly with Russian, looked at me > through the > >> windows and went in. > >> They all sat at the table next to me. > >> > >> None of the officers looked Indian. This was a > big change. > >> Always before, > >> Cherokee police were the best of the best Cherokee > warriors > >> - and were highly > >> respected. In fact, I would swear that one of the > officers > >> was from the > >> Baltic countries himself. He spoke proper > English, but > >> didn't have a Southern > >> Mountain accent. > >> > >> In a menacing tone, the SWAT officer asked me > what I was > >> doing in Cherokee? > >> > >> "Duh-h-h-h-h, eating barbecue and ice > cream." > >> > >> They grilled me for several more minutes about my > purposes > >> on the rez, > >> where I lived, my drivers licence, did I have > criminal > >> record, etc. until I got > >> fed up and flashed them my Creek tribal membership > card. > >> They immediately > >> became more polite. They then told me to leave the > >> reservation as soon as I > >> finished my meal. They never said one word about > what I > >> had done wrong. After > >> telling with a friend in federal law enforcement > about the > >> incident, we both > >> decided that everybody thought I was an INS > undercover > >> agent, because I was > >> alone and look very athletic - wear my hair very > short in > >> the summer. > >> > >> I didn't leave immediately. I went straight > to the > >> home of an old Cherokee > >> friend, who had managed the Penny's store in > >> Asheville, before retiring back > >> on the rez. I told him how I was treated. He > wept as he > >> explained how the > >> Russian Mafia had taken over at Qualla. A few > Cherokees > >> were getting rich, > >> politicians were getting paid off, and the rest of > the > >> people were basically > >> welfare Injuns, getting by with checks from the > casino > >> profits paid to the > >> tribe. Very few of the young people wanted to > make crafts > >> anymore, and the > >> educated ones were being forced to leave Qualla to > get a > >> job, unless they were > >> teachers. > >> > >> Not going back to Cherokee any time soon. > >> > >> Richard T. > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> **************Looking for a car that's sporty, > fun and > >> fits in your budget? > >> Read reviews on AOL Autos. > >> > (http://autos.aol.com/cars-Volkswagen-Jetta-2009/expert-review?ncid=aolaut00030000000007 > >> ) > >> > >> ------------------------------- > >> To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email > to > >> [email protected] with the word > >> 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the > subject and > >> the body of the message > > > > > > > > > > ------------------------------- > > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > > [email protected] with the word > 'unsubscribe' without > > the quotes in the subject and the body of the message > > > > > > > >

I'm always amazed at the people who assume Native people live exactly like our ancestors did 300 years ago, or like from a scene in a western film. Back in the 1980's while living on Qualla Boundary a white lady stopped me and asked me where all the Indians were at, So I told her she was a week two late, the soldiers had come through and massacred the entire tribe. I mean their were Indians everywhere on the reservation, she just didn't realize that they were mixed-blooded and dressed like other Americans. --- On Fri, 8/15/08, [email protected] <[email protected]> wrote: > From: [email protected] <[email protected]> > Subject: Re: [CREEK-SOUTHEAST] Cherokee-Creek relations after the Trail of Tears > To: [email protected] > Date: Friday, August 15, 2008, 3:09 PM > I know that I am getting off the subject of this thread but, > I wanted to > voice my opinion on the Cherokee, NC scenario. > > My "favorite" thing when we go there, is to watch > the "authentic Cherokees" > in their Cherokee regalia complete right down to the > genuine war bonnets > dancing beside their teepees (of course) with their tip jar > placed closeby. > > The last time we were there, one tourist actually was upset > because she was > worrying about them having to live on the street in those > teepees without any > conveniences and couldn't be convinced that they > didn't. > > I guess if the tourists are gullible enough to swallow it, > go for it! > > Oh, well, enough said, and I won't bring it up again! > > JR > > > > > > > > > > > > **************Looking for a car that's sporty, fun and > fits in your budget? > Read reviews on AOL Autos. > (http://autos.aol.com/cars-Volkswagen-Jetta-2009/expert-review?ncid=aolaut00030000000007 > ) > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > [email protected] with the word > 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and > the body of the message

Richard, I hate that you had that experience while on Qualla boundary, I was there around the last part of December, and all I encountered was a Cherokee woman working in the gas station was a sullen bored attitude. I know that many young Cherokees are taught arts & Crafts in the schools, even the Indian kids who go to the Non-reservation schools in the surrounding communities have the opportunities to learn native crafts, or they use to when I went to school in swain co. The sad thing is that most people can not make a living on just the arts and crafts making, they just do it for surplus money, and they can spend hours woodcarving, or making a basket and receive little from the shopkeepers who offer them a little money, then turn around and double or triple their money selling the basket or woodcarving. --- On Fri, 8/15/08, [email protected] <[email protected]> wrote: > From: [email protected] <[email protected]> > Subject: [CREEK-SOUTHEAST] How do I know about what's happening in Western North Carolina > To: [email protected] > Date: Friday, August 15, 2008, 3:11 PM > How do I know about the Russia Mafia being in Cherokee and > Asheville? > Remember I had a pretty prominent position in Asheville and > still have friends > there, who are in the know. Actually, I was a highly > respected professional > until the year 2000 when a certain political change took > place! LOL The last > time I was in Asheville (last November) a close friend > point blank told me that > the Russians are taking over Asheville and already run > Cherokee from behind > the scenes. Most of his appraisals recently were for > Russian Nationals moving > to Western North Carolina. > > Many moons ago, before I even moved to Asheville, I was a > consultant to the > Cherokee Housing Authority and through the years have made > friends on the > Qualla Boundary. Last summer I decided to go hiking on my > birthday, and then > stop by afterward to visit with old Cherokee friends, who > made the best > barbecue around. Their old restaurant had been torn down > and replaced with a fancy > new one in a shopping center. > > Before eating, I walked around the strip shopping area, > looking for a > birthday gift for my sister - who was born in late August. > Every single store I > visited was staffed and managed by Slavic personnel. I > finally stopped a > Cherokee lady on the street, and told her I was Creek. > Where are the Cherokees? > She said that they don't work in town anymore. A few > worked at the casino, > but there were getting to be less and less. Of course, > the Qualla Arts > Gallery was staffed by Cherokees, but that was it. I > bought a gift for my sister > there, since there stuff were the only "real" > looking things in town. > > I then drove back the barbecue restaurant, I walked in and > didn't see a > Native American in the place - either eating or working. > Two Scandinavian looking > gals (college age) were the hostesses. I asked them in > English, if they were > Swedish (Jag taler svenska) They said they were college > students from > "Southern" Russia. I thought that was strange > since the southern Russians tend to > look Middle Eastern. > > My waitress was from Brazil. I asked her what had happened > to all my > Cherokee friends that had worked there for two decades. She > said that when the > Russians bought the restaurant three years ago, all the > Cherokees had been fired. > In fact, she was only person they kept. The manager was > from Poland. All the > other employees were from Russia, Ukraine or Poland. She > said that was pretty > much the situation in all the stores and restaurants. She > also was on a > student visa, but had never attended college. The Russian > owner got her card > renewed each year. A little later, I glanced back into the > kitchen and did see a > Cherokee teenager working! He was washing dishes. > > The barbecue was as great as ever. A free ice cream came > with the meal. It > was served by the blond girls from "Southern > Russia." As I was walking up to > the ice cream counter, I heard them speaking a dialect of > Finnish. I said > about the only words I remembered in Finish from my days > of working in Sweden - > for "hello." That is absolutely all I said, > other than I would like two > scoops of butter pecan ice cream in English. They freaked > out. One raced back to > the kitchen while the other nervously scooped my ice cream > order. > > Within a minute or so, a big, black limousine roared up to > the front door of > the restaurant. A big, puffy-faced, evil-looking Russian > got out. He peeked > in the door and said something to the Russian girls or > wherever they were > really from. Moments later, three Cherokee Tribal Police > cruisers and a SWAT > squad SUV flew into the parking lot, lights flashing. The > four police officers > chatted briefly with Russian, looked at me through the > windows and went in. > They all sat at the table next to me. > > None of the officers looked Indian. This was a big change. > Always before, > Cherokee police were the best of the best Cherokee warriors > - and were highly > respected. In fact, I would swear that one of the officers > was from the > Baltic countries himself. He spoke proper English, but > didn't have a Southern > Mountain accent. > > In a menacing tone, the SWAT officer asked me what I was > doing in Cherokee? > > "Duh-h-h-h-h, eating barbecue and ice cream." > > They grilled me for several more minutes about my purposes > on the rez, > where I lived, my drivers licence, did I have criminal > record, etc. until I got > fed up and flashed them my Creek tribal membership card. > They immediately > became more polite. They then told me to leave the > reservation as soon as I > finished my meal. They never said one word about what I > had done wrong. After > telling with a friend in federal law enforcement about the > incident, we both > decided that everybody thought I was an INS undercover > agent, because I was > alone and look very athletic - wear my hair very short in > the summer. > > I didn't leave immediately. I went straight to the > home of an old Cherokee > friend, who had managed the Penny's store in > Asheville, before retiring back > on the rez. I told him how I was treated. He wept as he > explained how the > Russian Mafia had taken over at Qualla. A few Cherokees > were getting rich, > politicians were getting paid off, and the rest of the > people were basically > welfare Injuns, getting by with checks from the casino > profits paid to the > tribe. Very few of the young people wanted to make crafts > anymore, and the > educated ones were being forced to leave Qualla to get a > job, unless they were > teachers. > > Not going back to Cherokee any time soon. > > Richard T. > > > > > > > > **************Looking for a car that's sporty, fun and > fits in your budget? > Read reviews on AOL Autos. > (http://autos.aol.com/cars-Volkswagen-Jetta-2009/expert-review?ncid=aolaut00030000000007 > ) > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > [email protected] with the word > 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and > the body of the message

Richard, I guess you get harassed by law enforcement due to your complexion also, I have had that happen to me a number of times, and also you get followed around in many stores as if you are a criminal trying to shoplift...My late sister even had someone tell her in a store in Lincoln Co. N.C. that Mexicans were not welcome there, they didn't have a clue that my sister was of Native heritage. --- On Fri, 8/15/08, [email protected] <[email protected]> wrote: > From: [email protected] <[email protected]> > Subject: [CREEK-SOUTHEAST] Eureka! I have finally figured out the Abikara Creeks! > To: [email protected] > Date: Friday, August 15, 2008, 8:57 PM > Those of you researching their Upper Creek ancestors have > probably run > across the ethnic name Abikara Creeks. It was the official > label of the Upper > Creeks until the period of the Red Stick War. At the time > of the first contacts > with Spanish and English explorers, the Kusa's were the > dominant Muskogean > group in the Highlands. Suddenly in the 1700s the > dominance shifted to the > Abikara and Tuckabachee Creeks of northern Alabama. I > never could figure out > who these people were or where they came from. > > Well, over the past four years I have been driving and > hiking the Southern > Highlands with copies of the de Soto and de Pardo > Chronicles in my back pack > - trying to match geographical descriptions with views > today. I also have > been pouring over the earliest maps of the Cherokee Country > - made by English > explorers in the early 1700s. > > I have also been tying down half the law enforcement in the > Southern > Highlands, who had been convinced by a baboon wearing a > badge in my county that I > was a serial killer. That's another story some other > time. > > WELL! I have put it all together. Apica was a Muskogean > town visited in > Eastern Tennessee by de Soto and de Pardo in the 1500s. It > would have been > somewhere in the vicinity of Knoxville or Newport, TN. I > found an old map where > the Cherokees called the French Broad River in North > Carolina and Tennessee, > the Abikwa, Abiqua or Apiqua River ... depending on the > spelling of the > mapmaker. > > We know that p's and b's are often shifted back and > forth when English > speakers write down Mvskoke. We know that the Overhills > Cherokees typically > changed a Creek "k" to a "kwa" sound. > > SO ... > > The Apika People were pushed down into Alabama by the > Cherokees when they > invaded Eastern Tennessee somewhere around 1710-1740. > Evidently, there were a > lot of Apika's and they quickly came to dominate the > other Creek tribal > towns in northern Alabama. Their ethnic name would have > been Apikv = Abikaw. > The whites called the Abikara's. > > That is one loose end tied together! > > Richard T. > > > > > > **************Looking for a car that's sporty, fun and > fits in your budget? > Read reviews on AOL Autos. > (http://autos.aol.com/cars-Volkswagen-Jetta-2009/expert-review?ncid=aolaut00030000000007 > ) > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > [email protected] with the word > 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and > the body of the message

My mom was friends with a lady that she worked with back in the 70's that use to visit with us often at our house in Gastonia, N.C., this lady's name was Dot Sewell, and she was of Native descent also through her fathers side of the family. I think they were of Creek or Seminole descent, her father was very native looking from what I remember, and from what I remember Dot claimed Seminole heritage. --- On Fri, 8/15/08, [email protected] <[email protected]> wrote: > From: [email protected] <[email protected]> > Subject: Re: [CREEK-SOUTHEAST] Eureka! I have finally figured out the Abikara Creeks! > To: [email protected] > Date: Friday, August 15, 2008, 9:08 PM > This is great work. I have been treking up in the area you > have been. My > Aunt and I were looking for graves and different areas of > history. I am sure > that you would agree that it is the most beautiful site to > be upon the tops > of the Mountains and see out beyond. Okay what I was > wondering with all your > knowledge on the Creeks could you tell me something about > the Porch Creek > Indians? I have been searching my ancestors for a long > time and it seems that > my fathers mother just didn't exist. I have found > that she was a Creek Indian > put stories go back and forth as to which one. Some say > Porch Creek that > her ancestors refused to go on the trail of tears and > formed their on tribe. > Not sure if this is true. Her last name has been spelled > Suel, and Sewell. > > > Thank You for any help > Beverly Martin Flores > > > > **************Looking for a car that's sporty, fun and > fits in your budget? > Read reviews on AOL Autos. > (http://autos.aol.com/cars-Volkswagen-Jetta-2009/expert-review?ncid=aolaut00030000000007 > ) > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > [email protected] with the word > 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and > the body of the message

This is a Message Board Post that is gatewayed to this mailing list. Author: shilohdream Surnames: hughley Classification: queries Message Board URL: http://boards.rootsweb.com/localities.northam.usa.special.secreeks/808.1.1.1.1.2.1.1.2.1/mb.ashx Message Board Post: i know..i have the 1880 census..LOL..that wasn't my point.. Important Note: The author of this message may not be subscribed to this list. If you would like to reply to them, please click on the Message Board URL link above and respond on the board.

Thank you, Richard T. I have learned a lot from you and the other's. This I appreciate. Thank you for sharing and teaching. Sam, Arkansas ----- Original Message ----- From: <[email protected]> To: <[email protected]> Sent: Friday, August 15, 2008 7:57 PM Subject: [CREEK-SOUTHEAST] Eureka! I have finally figured out the AbikaraCreeks! > Those of you researching their Upper Creek ancestors have probably run > across the ethnic name Abikara Creeks. It was the official label of the > Upper > Creeks until the period of the Red Stick War. At the time of the first > contacts > with Spanish and English explorers, the Kusa's were the dominant > Muskogean > group in the Highlands. Suddenly in the 1700s the dominance shifted to > the > Abikara and Tuckabachee Creeks of northern Alabama. I never could figure > out > who these people were or where they came from. > > Well, over the past four years I have been driving and hiking the > Southern > Highlands with copies of the de Soto and de Pardo Chronicles in my back > pack > - trying to match geographical descriptions with views today. I also have > been pouring over the earliest maps of the Cherokee Country - made by > English > explorers in the early 1700s. > > I have also been tying down half the law enforcement in the Southern > Highlands, who had been convinced by a baboon wearing a badge in my county > that I > was a serial killer. That's another story some other time. > > WELL! I have put it all together. Apica was a Muskogean town visited in > Eastern Tennessee by de Soto and de Pardo in the 1500s. It would have > been > somewhere in the vicinity of Knoxville or Newport, TN. I found an old map > where > the Cherokees called the French Broad River in North Carolina and > Tennessee, > the Abikwa, Abiqua or Apiqua River ... depending on the spelling of the > mapmaker. > > We know that p's and b's are often shifted back and forth when English > speakers write down Mvskoke. We know that the Overhills Cherokees > typically > changed a Creek "k" to a "kwa" sound. > > SO ... > > The Apika People were pushed down into Alabama by the Cherokees when they > invaded Eastern Tennessee somewhere around 1710-1740. Evidently, there > were a > lot of Apika's and they quickly came to dominate the other Creek tribal > towns in northern Alabama. Their ethnic name would have been Apikv = > Abikaw. > The whites called the Abikara's. > > That is one loose end tied together! > > Richard T. > > > > > > **************Looking for a car that's sporty, fun and fits in your > budget? > Read reviews on AOL Autos. > (http://autos.aol.com/cars-Volkswagen-Jetta-2009/expert-review?ncid=aolaut00030000000007 > ) > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without > the quotes in the subject and the body of the message

In a message dated 8/15/2008 8:09:02 P.M. Eastern Standard Time, [email protected] writes: Okay what I was wondering with all your knowledge on the Creeks could you tell me something about the Porch Creek Indians? Beverly, Poarch Creek Indians can only be descended from certain Creek families, who received land reserves from the Federal government and a waiver on the requirement to travel to Oklahoma, as a reward for work done for the soldiers involved with the Creek removal. I am not a professional genealogist, nor even that knowledgeable about the subject, but there are people on this message board, who can tell you where the records are kept for determining if you had ancestor who was a "Poarch" Creek. Not being Poarch does not mean that you are not Creek. Many, many other Creek families stayed in the East because they were "Friendly" Creeks who received Veteran's land grants (like my Creek side), or that they were wealthy enough mixed bloods, where no one bothered them. Keep watching the message board and google web sites related to the Poarch Creeks for more info. Richard T. **************Looking for a car that's sporty, fun and fits in your budget? Read reviews on AOL Autos. (http://autos.aol.com/cars-Volkswagen-Jetta-2009/expert-review?ncid=aolaut00030000000007 )

This is great work. I have been treking up in the area you have been. My Aunt and I were looking for graves and different areas of history. I am sure that you would agree that it is the most beautiful site to be upon the tops of the Mountains and see out beyond. Okay what I was wondering with all your knowledge on the Creeks could you tell me something about the Porch Creek Indians? I have been searching my ancestors for a long time and it seems that my fathers mother just didn't exist. I have found that she was a Creek Indian put stories go back and forth as to which one. Some say Porch Creek that her ancestors refused to go on the trail of tears and formed their on tribe. Not sure if this is true. Her last name has been spelled Suel, and Sewell. Thank You for any help Beverly Martin Flores **************Looking for a car that's sporty, fun and fits in your budget? Read reviews on AOL Autos. (http://autos.aol.com/cars-Volkswagen-Jetta-2009/expert-review?ncid=aolaut00030000000007 )

Okonee means washed with water. Essentially, it means ritually purified with water - the Creek equivalent of baptism. **************Looking for a car that's sporty, fun and fits in your budget? Read reviews on AOL Autos. (http://autos.aol.com/cars-Volkswagen-Jetta-2009/expert-review?ncid=aolaut00030000000007 )

Those of you researching their Upper Creek ancestors have probably run across the ethnic name Abikara Creeks. It was the official label of the Upper Creeks until the period of the Red Stick War. At the time of the first contacts with Spanish and English explorers, the Kusa's were the dominant Muskogean group in the Highlands. Suddenly in the 1700s the dominance shifted to the Abikara and Tuckabachee Creeks of northern Alabama. I never could figure out who these people were or where they came from. Well, over the past four years I have been driving and hiking the Southern Highlands with copies of the de Soto and de Pardo Chronicles in my back pack - trying to match geographical descriptions with views today. I also have been pouring over the earliest maps of the Cherokee Country - made by English explorers in the early 1700s. I have also been tying down half the law enforcement in the Southern Highlands, who had been convinced by a baboon wearing a badge in my county that I was a serial killer. That's another story some other time. WELL! I have put it all together. Apica was a Muskogean town visited in Eastern Tennessee by de Soto and de Pardo in the 1500s. It would have been somewhere in the vicinity of Knoxville or Newport, TN. I found an old map where the Cherokees called the French Broad River in North Carolina and Tennessee, the Abikwa, Abiqua or Apiqua River ... depending on the spelling of the mapmaker. We know that p's and b's are often shifted back and forth when English speakers write down Mvskoke. We know that the Overhills Cherokees typically changed a Creek "k" to a "kwa" sound. SO ... The Apika People were pushed down into Alabama by the Cherokees when they invaded Eastern Tennessee somewhere around 1710-1740. Evidently, there were a lot of Apika's and they quickly came to dominate the other Creek tribal towns in northern Alabama. Their ethnic name would have been Apikv = Abikaw. The whites called the Abikara's. That is one loose end tied together! Richard T. **************Looking for a car that's sporty, fun and fits in your budget? Read reviews on AOL Autos. (http://autos.aol.com/cars-Volkswagen-Jetta-2009/expert-review?ncid=aolaut00030000000007 )

Kathy, The head of the Oconee County Arts & Historical Commission is a pseudo historian who has framed the background on NA's in this county in a way that does not agree with the SC State Archives or the SC Museum of History. I think that will mean trying to trace locations through my county will be a joke. The maps, from before the Revolutionary War show the name Oconee (Akonee) all over the place so he claims that is a Cherokee word. It is a Hitichi word and is on all those maps because Muskogees were in this area before the European settlers forced the Cherokee south. I had a long hard battle with this and lost because in this area, church fellowship trumps historic fact every time. BTW, If they have taken over my favorite restaurant in Cherokee, they will have to answer to me. Richard, I do not remember the name, but it is on your left coming from here, just before 441 turns left through the old center of town. S At 08:17 PM 8/15/2008, you wrote: >Here where I live, we have some early maps of all the places where >the different bands of Salish-speaking people lived before >1900. Since the west is so "young", our history doesn't start much >before Lewis & Clark made their journey to the sea. > >Considering Oconee County, SC, and that area, where many Indian >families still live, is it possible to map the movements of the >bands through history? Can we start "at the beginning" of written >information and show where the towns/villages/settlements/camps were >up until, even, today? .....or recently (1900)? > >Can we do this for any other places with which researchers on this >mailing list are familiar? > >Some researchers in Virginia have developed detailed time lines for >the Siouan-speaking bands of the area in order to help people locate >the source of the stories of the Indian blood in their families. > >One early map shows the Muscocees or Creeks on the Atlantic Coast >just south of the Savannah River and neighboring the Yamasee Indians >to the north. Between the Savannah and the Cape Fear, were the >Cheraws on the coast and the Catawba to the west; with the Cherokee >further west behind the Catawba. (A Map of the Sites of the Cheraws >and Catawbas, with surrounding tribes, taken from Map in Vol. I, >Transactions of American Ethonological Society). > >Kathie > >------------------------------- >To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to >[email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' >without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message > > > >-- >No virus found in this incoming message. >Checked by AVG. >Version: 7.5.526 / Virus Database: 270.6.3/1612 - Release Date: >8/14/2008 6:03 PM -- No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG. Version: 7.5.526 / Virus Database: 270.6.3/1612 - Release Date: 8/14/2008 6:03 PM

In a message dated 8/15/2008 7:18:09 P.M. Eastern Standard Time, [email protected] writes: Considering Oconee County, SC, and that area, where many Indian families still live, is it possible to map the movements of the bands through history? Can we start "at the beginning" of written information and show where the towns/villages/settlements/camps were up until, even, today? .....or recently (1900)? Kathie, Here is the problem. The more I dig into the old first hand accounts of the earliest European explorers, the more that I am convinced that the ethnic pattern of the Lower Southeast was a patchwork quilt. Nobody called themselves anything, but the particular major town in their province, where the leaders and priests lived. Great Suns (kings) might have subjects speaking several dialects or even languages within their province. There was no such thing as Creeks or Yamassee until the English started grouping people together so they could steal their land at diplomatic conferences. LOL **************Looking for a car that's sporty, fun and fits in your budget? Read reviews on AOL Autos. (http://autos.aol.com/cars-Volkswagen-Jetta-2009/expert-review?ncid=aolaut00030000000007 )

Ooops! I sheepishly apologize for my response on the board just now - I thought I had sent it directly to Richard! Didn't mean to post off topic. Kim ----- Original Message ----- From: <[email protected]> To: <[email protected]> Sent: Friday, August 15, 2008 2:09 PM Subject: Re: [CREEK-SOUTHEAST] Cherokee-Creek relations after the Trail ofTears >I know that I am getting off the subject of this thread but, I wanted to > voice my opinion on the Cherokee, NC scenario. > > My "favorite" thing when we go there, is to watch the "authentic > Cherokees" > in their Cherokee regalia complete right down to the genuine war bonnets > dancing beside their teepees (of course) with their tip jar placed > closeby. > > The last time we were there, one tourist actually was upset because she > was > worrying about them having to live on the street in those teepees without > any > conveniences and couldn't be convinced that they didn't. > > I guess if the tourists are gullible enough to swallow it, go for it! > > Oh, well, enough said, and I won't bring it up again! > > JR > > > > > > > > > > > > **************Looking for a car that's sporty, fun and fits in your > budget? > Read reviews on AOL Autos. > (http://autos.aol.com/cars-Volkswagen-Jetta-2009/expert-review?ncid=aolaut00030000000007 > ) > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without > the quotes in the subject and the body of the message > > No virus found in this incoming message. > Checked by AVG. > Version: 8.0.138 / Virus Database: 270.6.3/1613 - Release Date: 8/15/2008 > 5:58 AM > > >

Richard, I noticed a couple of years ago that most of the shops out here on Pensacola Beach are now run by Russians. I asked one of the girls at one of the shops what brought her so far from home. She said she and the others who worked with her had vacationed here a few years back and decided they wanted to live and work here - At that time it didn't seem unreasonable, since then they (the Russians, Ukraine, etc) have pretty much taken over the beach - Furthermore, when I went to visit the USS Alabama battleship in Mobile Bay in March, we stopped at the Captain's Table Restaurant and lo and behold - almost completely Russian staff. Bizarre no doubt. And I thought GW had sold us off to China! Nyet! ~Kim~ ----- Original Message ----- From: <[email protected]> To: <[email protected]> Sent: Friday, August 15, 2008 2:11 PM Subject: [CREEK-SOUTHEAST] How do I know about what's happening in WesternNorth Carolina > > How do I know about the Russia Mafia being in Cherokee and Asheville? > Remember I had a pretty prominent position in Asheville and still have > friends > there, who are in the know. Actually, I was a highly respected > professional > until the year 2000 when a certain political change took place! LOL The > last > time I was in Asheville (last November) a close friend point blank told > me that > the Russians are taking over Asheville and already run Cherokee from > behind > the scenes. Most of his appraisals recently were for Russian Nationals > moving > to Western North Carolina. > > Many moons ago, before I even moved to Asheville, I was a consultant to > the > Cherokee Housing Authority and through the years have made friends on the > Qualla Boundary. Last summer I decided to go hiking on my birthday, and > then > stop by afterward to visit with old Cherokee friends, who made the best > barbecue around. Their old restaurant had been torn down and replaced > with a fancy > new one in a shopping center. > > Before eating, I walked around the strip shopping area, looking for a > birthday gift for my sister - who was born in late August. Every single > store I > visited was staffed and managed by Slavic personnel. I finally stopped a > Cherokee lady on the street, and told her I was Creek. Where are the > Cherokees? > She said that they don't work in town anymore. A few worked at the > casino, > but there were getting to be less and less. Of course, the Qualla Arts > Gallery was staffed by Cherokees, but that was it. I bought a gift for > my sister > there, since there stuff were the only "real" looking things in town. > > I then drove back the barbecue restaurant, I walked in and didn't see a > Native American in the place - either eating or working. Two Scandinavian > looking > gals (college age) were the hostesses. I asked them in English, if they > were > Swedish (Jag taler svenska) They said they were college students from > "Southern" Russia. I thought that was strange since the southern Russians > tend to > look Middle Eastern. > > My waitress was from Brazil. I asked her what had happened to all my > Cherokee friends that had worked there for two decades. She said that when > the > Russians bought the restaurant three years ago, all the Cherokees had been > fired. > In fact, she was only person they kept. The manager was from Poland. All > the > other employees were from Russia, Ukraine or Poland. She said that was > pretty > much the situation in all the stores and restaurants. She also was on a > student visa, but had never attended college. The Russian owner got her > card > renewed each year. A little later, I glanced back into the kitchen and did > see a > Cherokee teenager working! He was washing dishes. > > The barbecue was as great as ever. A free ice cream came with the meal. > It > was served by the blond girls from "Southern Russia." As I was walking up > to > the ice cream counter, I heard them speaking a dialect of Finnish. I said > about the only words I remembered in Finish from my days of working in > Sweden - > for "hello." That is absolutely all I said, other than I would like two > scoops of butter pecan ice cream in English. They freaked out. One raced > back to > the kitchen while the other nervously scooped my ice cream order. > > Within a minute or so, a big, black limousine roared up to the front door > of > the restaurant. A big, puffy-faced, evil-looking Russian got out. He > peeked > in the door and said something to the Russian girls or wherever they were > really from. Moments later, three Cherokee Tribal Police cruisers and a > SWAT > squad SUV flew into the parking lot, lights flashing. The four police > officers > chatted briefly with Russian, looked at me through the windows and went > in. > They all sat at the table next to me. > > None of the officers looked Indian. This was a big change. Always > before, > Cherokee police were the best of the best Cherokee warriors - and were > highly > respected. In fact, I would swear that one of the officers was from the > Baltic countries himself. He spoke proper English, but didn't have a > Southern > Mountain accent. > > In a menacing tone, the SWAT officer asked me what I was doing in > Cherokee? > > "Duh-h-h-h-h, eating barbecue and ice cream." > > They grilled me for several more minutes about my purposes on the rez, > where I lived, my drivers licence, did I have criminal record, etc. until > I got > fed up and flashed them my Creek tribal membership card. They immediately > became more polite. They then told me to leave the reservation as soon as > I > finished my meal. They never said one word about what I had done wrong. > After > telling with a friend in federal law enforcement about the incident, we > both > decided that everybody thought I was an INS undercover agent, because I > was > alone and look very athletic - wear my hair very short in the summer. > > I didn't leave immediately. I went straight to the home of an old > Cherokee > friend, who had managed the Penny's store in Asheville, before retiring > back > on the rez. I told him how I was treated. He wept as he explained how > the > Russian Mafia had taken over at Qualla. A few Cherokees were getting > rich, > politicians were getting paid off, and the rest of the people were > basically > welfare Injuns, getting by with checks from the casino profits paid to > the > tribe. Very few of the young people wanted to make crafts anymore, and > the > educated ones were being forced to leave Qualla to get a job, unless > they were > teachers. > > Not going back to Cherokee any time soon. > > Richard T. > > > > > > > > **************Looking for a car that's sporty, fun and fits in your > budget? > Read reviews on AOL Autos. > (http://autos.aol.com/cars-Volkswagen-Jetta-2009/expert-review?ncid=aolaut00030000000007 > ) > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without > the quotes in the subject and the body of the message > > No virus found in this incoming message. > Checked by AVG. > Version: 8.0.138 / Virus Database: 270.6.3/1613 - Release Date: 8/15/2008 > 5:58 AM > > >

Here where I live, we have some early maps of all the places where the different bands of Salish-speaking people lived before 1900. Since the west is so "young", our history doesn't start much before Lewis & Clark made their journey to the sea. Considering Oconee County, SC, and that area, where many Indian families still live, is it possible to map the movements of the bands through history? Can we start "at the beginning" of written information and show where the towns/villages/settlements/camps were up until, even, today? .....or recently (1900)? Can we do this for any other places with which researchers on this mailing list are familiar? Some researchers in Virginia have developed detailed time lines for the Siouan-speaking bands of the area in order to help people locate the source of the stories of the Indian blood in their families. One early map shows the Muscocees or Creeks on the Atlantic Coast just south of the Savannah River and neighboring the Yamasee Indians to the north. Between the Savannah and the Cape Fear, were the Cheraws on the coast and the Catawba to the west; with the Cherokee further west behind the Catawba. (A Map of the Sites of the Cheraws and Catawbas, with surrounding tribes, taken from Map in Vol. I, Transactions of American Ethonological Society). Kathie

I do not know the situation on the Cherokee Rez but I have seen foreigners/outsiders have way too much control over some Rez's. Mr. I. G. did so with the Kickapoo Rez in Eagle Pass, Texas. Allegedly he and his family took over most of the Rez's business affairs and then ripped them off. Fortunately, the Feds came to the Kickapoos aid (imagine that!) and recently the Feds had a successful prosecution against the G. family. Google and you can get the whole scoop. ----- Original Message ----- From: "Leon Beard" <[email protected]> To: <[email protected]> Sent: Friday, August 15, 2008 1:31 PM Subject: Re: [CREEK-SOUTHEAST] Cherokee-Creek relations after the Trail ofTears > Richard, > As a person who has previously lived on the Cherokee > reservation/Qualla boundary in the Birdtown community, and has relatives > and friends who still live on the reservation or in the surrounding towns > I'm stunned by your comments. > I know nothing about a Russian Mafia who have overtaken the reservation, > the shops on the reservation are often leased by non-cherokees, and if the > leases are not renewed then the shopkeepers must either move their > business or close. > Most jobs on the reservation are filled by Cherokee tribal members, and if > not a Cherokee tribal member, then a Indian from other tribes, or a > Caucausian person, as preference are given to tribal members first. > Some years ago some tribal Elders did complain about the number of > Mexicans who had taken up residence on the reservation, and living with > cherokee women. > The per capita checks are distributed in June, and again in December, some > tribal members use the money to improve their lives, while some drink and > party until the money is gone. > I know before the per capita checks many tribal members relied on food > stamps, and commodity food from the government as work was mostly > seasonal. > So life on the reservation has improved compared to what it was before the > Casino arrived in town. > > --- On Fri, 8/15/08, Steve Sokol <[email protected]> wrote: > >> From: Steve Sokol <[email protected]> >> Subject: Re: [CREEK-SOUTHEAST] Cherokee-Creek relations after the Trail >> of Tears >> To: [email protected] >> Date: Friday, August 15, 2008, 11:50 AM >> Richard, >> >> As you probably remember, we got to talking when I wanted >> to prove >> that a local, ego driven "historian" was >> reqriting history of teh >> area where SC, NC & GA meet. He is so far out of line >> it is hard to >> believe. It is really hurting the NA's around here >> trying to follow >> their roots. They are looking at the wrong tribe. >> >> Unless the Yucchi were Cherokee rather than Creek, they are >> being >> mislead by a "false prophet". Since you can buy >> local politicians >> for one meat & three lunch, a sham is easy to pull. >> >> It is quite destructive to those of you tracing ancestors. >> >> Steve >> >> >> At 10:54 AM 8/15/2008, you wrote: >> >> >In addition to Richard B.'s comment on the family >> memory of a so-called >> >Cherokee land grab, I wanted to make an additional >> comment. >> > >> >If one read's the history books, you learn that >> Creek-Cherokee relations >> >were generally good in Oklahoma. The Cherokees had >> allowed over >> >3000 Creeks to >> >take refuge in NW Georgia - well, of course, it was >> their land anyway two >> >generations before. Nevertheless, the Cherokee leaders >> did not have to show >> >this kindness. >> > >> >Both tribes found themselves in similar situations upon >> arrival in Oklahoma >> >- Pro-removal versus anti-removal forces continued to >> clash and blood was >> >shed. >> > >> >The Cherokee and Creek Mounted Rifles usually fought >> together as one unit in >> >the Civil War - with Cherokee Stand Watie formerly of >> Pine Log, GA in >> >command, and Creek General Chilly McIntosh, formerly of >> Carrolton, >> >GA second in >> >command. >> > >> >Since that time, it has become quite common for >> Oklahoma Creeks and >> >Cherokees to both be friends and families to >> intermarry. >> > >> >I have given a lot of thought to what is behind the >> serious problems we >> >Eastern Creeks have been experiencing with the Eastern >> Band of Cherokees in >> >recent years. Two sources come to mind ... (1) >> Caucasian >> >tourism development >> >bureaucrats and professors made up Cherokee history in >> the late >> >20th century in >> >order to create an image that they felt would appeal to >> tourists. This >> >concocted history was taught to a generation of >> students, who >> >now belief these >> >things to be ancient tribal traditions (2) The Russian >> Mafia has >> >virtually taken >> >over the North Carolina Cherokee Reservation. Very >> few >> >non-governmental jobs >> >are now held by Cherokees. Typically, these job are >> the most menial one >> >could find. It is a real asset to be able to speak >> Russian or >> >Polish when you go >> >in a shop at Cherokee! LOL Many Cherokees there >> have become dependent on >> >quarterly checks from the Harrah'a Casino profits. >> I can't imagine >> >what will >> >happen when the projected recession or depression this >> winter drastically >> >reduced profits from the casino. Most Cherokees no >> longer grow >> >their own food >> >or make crafts to sell to tourists. >> > >> >Richard T. >> >> >> -- >> No virus found in this outgoing message. >> Checked by AVG. >> Version: 7.5.526 / Virus Database: 270.6.3/1612 - Release >> Date: 8/14/2008 6:03 PM >> >> >> >> ------------------------------- >> To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to >> [email protected] with the word >> 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and >> the body of the message > > > > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without > the quotes in the subject and the body of the message > > No virus found in this incoming message. > Checked by AVG - http://www.avg.com > Version: 8.0.138 / Virus Database: 270.6.3/1614 - Release Date: 8/15/2008 > 5:29 PM > > >

Have you ever made Creek corn bread fritters which is made from wet corn meal that is let sit for a few days to ferment before frying? TT ----- Original Message ----- From: <[email protected]> To: <[email protected]> Sent: Friday, August 15, 2008 12:43 PM Subject: [CREEK-SOUTHEAST] Native grape pie recipe > > Scuppernong Pie Recipe > > 3-4 cups scuppernong native grapes > Water > 3 T butter > 2/3 cup sugar > 2 T cornstarch > 1 T or more Cinnamon or Apple Pie Spice > Pastry for 2-crust pie > > Preheat oven to 300 degrees F. Wash scuppernongs. Use 2 medium-sized > enamel sauce pans; squeeze pulp into one and use other for hulls. Cover > hulls > with water and cook until tender, drain. Cook pulp until soft enough to > run > through sieve to remove seeds. Add to hulls. Mix sugar and cornstarch. > Add > scuppernong mixture and dot with butter. Sprinkle with spice as desired. > Pour into pastry-lined pie pan, cover with strips of pastry. Bake until > brown. > Serves 6-8. > > > > **************Looking for a car that's sporty, fun and fits in your > budget? > Read reviews on AOL Autos. > (http://autos.aol.com/cars-Volkswagen-Jetta-2009/expert-review?ncid=aolaut00030000000007 > ) > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without > the quotes in the subject and the body of the message >

Debbie, I guess you have looked at the family lines in Emmett Starr's History of the Cherokee? I can't locate my copy at the moment, but feel sure there are West family there. Talking with my aunt yesterday or day before, she said my cuzn (Martin) family connected to West (Cherokees). One of his grandfather (West) , I think my aunt said was the U.S. Marshall at Ft. Smith ,during judge Parker's work. You will find the most cherokee family information in Starr's book. Richard B. ----- Original Message ----- From: "Debbie Woolf" <[email protected]> To: <[email protected]>; <[email protected]> Sent: Friday, August 15, 2008 2:08 PM Subject: Re: [CREEK-SOUTHEAST] Cherokee-Creek relations after the TrailofTears > LEon, > > thanks for the tidbit. Now maybe we can clear the confusion. I have > asked > Richard to elaborate as I am interested in what is going on in NC. > > I may never be able to stand side by side with my brothers adn sisters and > be accepted Cherokee or Creek, but I have no doubts I am one. My family > was > still on the reservatoin land well after 1810 and that I know for a fact. > Cousins are still there today, but we have lost the relationship. All we > know is we were related to Will West LONG, well known historian. I > believe > my great ggg grandmother was a WEST married to a LONG, her name Delilah or > Delila is all I have. We have pictures of the WESTs and believe it to be > her parents. From there on it gets very foggy as the men chose for their > wifes' to hide their ancestry. They were not allowed to show in town as > they > did not speak English, only Cherokee. LIes were made up they spoke Dutch > only and they were told not to speak in front of strangers. They left NC > for upper GA, living in Ivy LOg, a well known mixed Cherokee community. > There, my line may have taken up residence with a Cherokee man as a 2nd > wife. HIs family well documented but no mention in the Dawes about a 2nd > family. This is the story on almost every line marrying into my family, > all simliar mixed families, hiding and avoiding being recorded as > Cherokee. > > Does anyone know what "Big Creek" might mean in Cherokee? > that is the name our ancestor used abt 1810. He was on the E Cherokee > rolls but would not give his family the info. they needed to establish it. > He died without telling his children his real indian name so they could > apply. They did apply, were rejected as not enough proof. With that > info. > I am sure they would have been on the Dawes. I have looked up Big Creek > and > believe it's similiar to Equa Ni la dv yi > Long would be GA Nv Hi Dv > > I can not find those on rolls, but not sure how they are pronounced and > how > an English speaker would write them. > Anyone who has ideas? > > while we are talking about language, well I am at least. Does anyone have > any idea if the Cherokee has trouble prouncing certain syllables? I had > trouble with "L" and "TH" "S" as did my children. > > thanks, Debbie > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Leon Beard" <[email protected]> > To: <[email protected]> > Sent: Friday, August 15, 2008 11:31 AM > Subject: Re: [CREEK-SOUTHEAST] Cherokee-Creek relations after the Trail > ofTears > > >> Richard, >> As a person who has previously lived on the Cherokee >> reservation/Qualla boundary in the Birdtown community, and has relatives >> and friends who still live on the reservation or in the surrounding towns >> I'm stunned by your comments. >> I know nothing about a Russian Mafia who have overtaken the reservation, >> the shops on the reservation are often leased by non-cherokees, and if >> the >> leases are not renewed then the shopkeepers must either move their >> business or close. >> Most jobs on the reservation are filled by Cherokee tribal members, and >> if >> not a Cherokee tribal member, then a Indian from other tribes, or a >> Caucausian person, as preference are given to tribal members first. >> Some years ago some tribal Elders did complain about the number of >> Mexicans who had taken up residence on the reservation, and living with >> cherokee women. >> The per capita checks are distributed in June, and again in December, >> some >> tribal members use the money to improve their lives, while some drink and >> party until the money is gone. >> I know before the per capita checks many tribal members relied on food >> stamps, and commodity food from the government as work was mostly >> seasonal. >> So life on the reservation has improved compared to what it was before >> the >> Casino arrived in town. >> >> --- On Fri, 8/15/08, Steve Sokol <[email protected]> wrote: >> >>> From: Steve Sokol <[email protected]> >>> Subject: Re: [CREEK-SOUTHEAST] Cherokee-Creek relations after the Trail >>> of Tears >>> To: [email protected] >>> Date: Friday, August 15, 2008, 11:50 AM >>> Richard, >>> >>> As you probably remember, we got to talking when I wanted >>> to prove >>> that a local, ego driven "historian" was >>> reqriting history of teh >>> area where SC, NC & GA meet. He is so far out of line >>> it is hard to >>> believe. It is really hurting the NA's around here >>> trying to follow >>> their roots. They are looking at the wrong tribe. >>> >>> Unless the Yucchi were Cherokee rather than Creek, they are >>> being >>> mislead by a "false prophet". Since you can buy >>> local politicians >>> for one meat & three lunch, a sham is easy to pull. >>> >>> It is quite destructive to those of you tracing ancestors. >>> >>> Steve >>> >>> >>> At 10:54 AM 8/15/2008, you wrote: >>> >>> >In addition to Richard B.'s comment on the family >>> memory of a so-called >>> >Cherokee land grab, I wanted to make an additional >>> comment. >>> > >>> >If one read's the history books, you learn that >>> Creek-Cherokee relations >>> >were generally good in Oklahoma. The Cherokees had >>> allowed over >>> >3000 Creeks to >>> >take refuge in NW Georgia - well, of course, it was >>> their land anyway two >>> >generations before. Nevertheless, the Cherokee leaders >>> did not have to show >>> >this kindness. >>> > >>> >Both tribes found themselves in similar situations upon >>> arrival in Oklahoma >>> >- Pro-removal versus anti-removal forces continued to >>> clash and blood was >>> >shed. >>> > >>> >The Cherokee and Creek Mounted Rifles usually fought >>> together as one unit in >>> >the Civil War - with Cherokee Stand Watie formerly of >>> Pine Log, GA in >>> >command, and Creek General Chilly McIntosh, formerly of >>> Carrolton, >>> >GA second in >>> >command. >>> > >>> >Since that time, it has become quite common for >>> Oklahoma Creeks and >>> >Cherokees to both be friends and families to >>> intermarry. >>> > >>> >I have given a lot of thought to what is behind the >>> serious problems we >>> >Eastern Creeks have been experiencing with the Eastern >>> Band of Cherokees in >>> >recent years. Two sources come to mind ... (1) >>> Caucasian >>> >tourism development >>> >bureaucrats and professors made up Cherokee history in >>> the late >>> >20th century in >>> >order to create an image that they felt would appeal to >>> tourists. This >>> >concocted history was taught to a generation of >>> students, who >>> >now belief these >>> >things to be ancient tribal traditions (2) The Russian >>> Mafia has >>> >virtually taken >>> >over the North Carolina Cherokee Reservation. Very >>> few >>> >non-governmental jobs >>> >are now held by Cherokees. Typically, these job are >>> the most menial one >>> >could find. It is a real asset to be able to speak >>> Russian or >>> >Polish when you go >>> >in a shop at Cherokee! LOL Many Cherokees there >>> have become dependent on >>> >quarterly checks from the Harrah'a Casino profits. >>> I can't imagine >>> >what will >>> >happen when the projected recession or depression this >>> winter drastically >>> >reduced profits from the casino. Most Cherokees no >>> longer grow >>> >their own food >>> >or make crafts to sell to tourists. >>> > >>> >Richard T. >>> >>> >>> -- >>> No virus found in this outgoing message. >>> Checked by AVG. >>> Version: 7.5.526 / Virus Database: 270.6.3/1612 - Release >>> Date: 8/14/2008 6:03 PM >>> >>> >>> >>> ------------------------------- >>> To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to >>> [email protected] with the word >>> 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and >>> the body of the message >> >> >> >> >> ------------------------------- >> To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to >> [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without >> the quotes in the subject and the body of the message >> > > > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without > the quotes in the subject and the body of the message > > > >