I know one time back in the 1980's my Mom was working as a desk clerk at a motel there on the reservation, and the liliy white white haired lady came in the office, and proudly tells my mom that her grandmother was a Cherokee indian Princess, and my Mom without blinking looks at the woman and said well mine was a indian w---e ( slang for prostitute )   I think I was just as stunned as the white lady.....after the lady left the office, my Mom said she was just tired of hearing about everybody's grandmother being a Indian princess...lol --- On Sun, 8/17/08, Tim Timothy <[email protected]> wrote: From: Tim Timothy <[email protected]> Subject: Re: [CREEK-SOUTHEAST] Indian Princess To: [email protected] Date: Sunday, August 17, 2008, 1:07 PM :) ----- Original Message ----- From: "Sam Gipson" <[email protected]> To: <[email protected]> Sent: Sunday, August 17, 2008 12:30 PM Subject: Re: [CREEK-SOUTHEAST] Indian Princess > That is a very good one. I love it also. > Neat. LOL > > Tks, Sam > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Ghostdance" <[email protected]> > To: <[email protected]> > Sent: Sunday, August 17, 2008 10:39 AM > Subject: Re: [CREEK-SOUTHEAST] Indian Princess > > >>A friend of mine has a T-Shirt that says " I am part white but I just can >> not prove it." I think that is hilarious! >> >> >> ----- Original Message ----- >> From: "JMSchohn" <[email protected]> >> To: <[email protected]> >> Sent: Saturday, August 16, 2008 6:37 PM >> Subject: Re: [CREEK-SOUTHEAST] Indian Princess >> >> >>> At several pow wows I have attended, they have had t-shirts for sale >>> that >>> read "My grandfather was a Cherokee Indian Princess." >>> >>> >>> >>> In a message dated 08/16/08 18:56:57 Eastern Daylight Time, >>> [email protected] writes: >>> Let it not be said that our Red brothers & sisters don't have a sense >>> of humor. >>> A Cherokee friend of mine told me about dancing at a powwow all day >>> in the hot sun, "being looked at", and hearing about white people's >>> "grandmothers being Indian Princesses". >>> About the end of the day he was hot, tired & just wanted to go home & >>> have a beer. As he was packing up his regalia, he noticed an older >>> woman >>> hanging around, building up her courage to spead to him. My friend >>> thought, >>> "oh oh, hear it comes!". The lady finally spoke to say " you know my >>> grandmother......". My friend interupted her saying, " I know, you're >>> going >>> to tell me your grandmother was a Cherokee Princess aren't you?" >>> She looked very satisfactually at her husband and said, " See, they can >>> tell!" >>> P.H. >>> >>> >>> >>> ------------------------------- >>> To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to >>> [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without >>> the quotes in the subject and the body of the message >>> >>> ------------------------------- >>> To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to >>> [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without >>> the quotes in the subject and the body of the message >>> >>> No virus found in this incoming message. >>> Checked by AVG - http://www.avg.com >>> Version: 8.0.138 / Virus Database: 270.6.4/1616 - Release Date: >>> 8/16/2008 >>> 5:12 PM >>> >>> >>> >> >> >> ------------------------------- >> To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to >> [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without >> the quotes in the subject and the body of the message > > > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without > the quotes in the subject and the body of the message > ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message

THIS ONE I LOVE! TT ----- Original Message ----- From: "Ghostdance" <[email protected]> To: <[email protected]> Sent: Sunday, August 17, 2008 11:39 AM Subject: Re: [CREEK-SOUTHEAST] Indian Princess >A friend of mine has a T-Shirt that says " I am part white but I just can > not prove it." I think that is hilarious! > > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "JMSchohn" <[email protected]> > To: <[email protected]> > Sent: Saturday, August 16, 2008 6:37 PM > Subject: Re: [CREEK-SOUTHEAST] Indian Princess > > >> At several pow wows I have attended, they have had t-shirts for sale that >> read "My grandfather was a Cherokee Indian Princess." >> >> >> >> In a message dated 08/16/08 18:56:57 Eastern Daylight Time, >> [email protected] writes: >> Let it not be said that our Red brothers & sisters don't have a sense >> of humor. >> A Cherokee friend of mine told me about dancing at a powwow all day >> in the hot sun, "being looked at", and hearing about white people's >> "grandmothers being Indian Princesses". >> About the end of the day he was hot, tired & just wanted to go home & >> have a beer. As he was packing up his regalia, he noticed an older woman >> hanging around, building up her courage to spead to him. My friend >> thought, >> "oh oh, hear it comes!". The lady finally spoke to say " you know my >> grandmother......". My friend interupted her saying, " I know, you're >> going >> to tell me your grandmother was a Cherokee Princess aren't you?" >> She looked very satisfactually at her husband and said, " See, they can >> tell!" >> P.H. >> >> >> >> ------------------------------- >> To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to >> [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without >> the quotes in the subject and the body of the message >> >> ------------------------------- >> To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to >> [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without >> the quotes in the subject and the body of the message >> >> No virus found in this incoming message. >> Checked by AVG - http://www.avg.com >> Version: 8.0.138 / Virus Database: 270.6.4/1616 - Release Date: 8/16/2008 >> 5:12 PM >> >> >> > > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without > the quotes in the subject and the body of the message >

:) ----- Original Message ----- From: "Sam Gipson" <[email protected]> To: <[email protected]> Sent: Sunday, August 17, 2008 12:30 PM Subject: Re: [CREEK-SOUTHEAST] Indian Princess > That is a very good one. I love it also. > Neat. LOL > > Tks, Sam > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Ghostdance" <[email protected]> > To: <[email protected]> > Sent: Sunday, August 17, 2008 10:39 AM > Subject: Re: [CREEK-SOUTHEAST] Indian Princess > > >>A friend of mine has a T-Shirt that says " I am part white but I just can >> not prove it." I think that is hilarious! >> >> >> ----- Original Message ----- >> From: "JMSchohn" <[email protected]> >> To: <[email protected]> >> Sent: Saturday, August 16, 2008 6:37 PM >> Subject: Re: [CREEK-SOUTHEAST] Indian Princess >> >> >>> At several pow wows I have attended, they have had t-shirts for sale >>> that >>> read "My grandfather was a Cherokee Indian Princess." >>> >>> >>> >>> In a message dated 08/16/08 18:56:57 Eastern Daylight Time, >>> [email protected] writes: >>> Let it not be said that our Red brothers & sisters don't have a sense >>> of humor. >>> A Cherokee friend of mine told me about dancing at a powwow all day >>> in the hot sun, "being looked at", and hearing about white people's >>> "grandmothers being Indian Princesses". >>> About the end of the day he was hot, tired & just wanted to go home & >>> have a beer. As he was packing up his regalia, he noticed an older >>> woman >>> hanging around, building up her courage to spead to him. My friend >>> thought, >>> "oh oh, hear it comes!". The lady finally spoke to say " you know my >>> grandmother......". My friend interupted her saying, " I know, you're >>> going >>> to tell me your grandmother was a Cherokee Princess aren't you?" >>> She looked very satisfactually at her husband and said, " See, they can >>> tell!" >>> P.H. >>> >>> >>> >>> ------------------------------- >>> To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to >>> [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without >>> the quotes in the subject and the body of the message >>> >>> ------------------------------- >>> To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to >>> [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without >>> the quotes in the subject and the body of the message >>> >>> No virus found in this incoming message. >>> Checked by AVG - http://www.avg.com >>> Version: 8.0.138 / Virus Database: 270.6.4/1616 - Release Date: >>> 8/16/2008 >>> 5:12 PM >>> >>> >>> >> >> >> ------------------------------- >> To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to >> [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without >> the quotes in the subject and the body of the message > > > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without > the quotes in the subject and the body of the message >

Good Afternoon! The following is a excerpt from the three volume book I am currently working on, Ancient Roots V: A Mountain Patchwork Quilt. Since it deals with what happens to people when they are manipulated by the Horned Serpent to think selfishly and short-sightedly, rather than for the common good, it makes a good Sunday School lesson. The First Creek Civil War or the Red Stick War Because state historical markers and mainline history books dwell on the principal leaders and battles of the First Creek Civil War, few Muskogean descendants today are aware of its actual roots or the catastrophic impact it had on all Southeastern Native American Peoples. The successful effort to divide and conquer the most powerful Native American political force in the nation, forever weakened future generations of Creeks, Choctaws, Chickasaws, Cherokees and Seminoles in the defense of their political and territorial rights. This tragic event almost 200 years ago affects us even today. Had the First Creek Civil War not occurred, there would never have been a Second Creek Civil War, which paralleled the American Civil War. Few people seem to realize the significance that the senior Confederate generals of both the Creek and the Cherokee Confederate Armies had fathers who were murdered because they signed treaties giving away tribal land in the east: General Chilly McIntosh ~ Chief William McIntosh & General Stand Watie ~ Chief John Ridge. The Pro-Union Factions of both tribes were led by sons of leaders, who had opposed the sale of eastern lands. Since joining the Confederacy meant full citizenship, economic development, and eventual statehood, the primary motive for the Pro-Union leaders most likely was because their long time enemies within the tribe had joined the other side. Over one-third of the men, women and children of the Oklahoma Creek Nation died in the American Civil War. There is no question, that the Creeks would have been the largest tribe in Oklahoma now, if that war had not occurred. Continuing the "what if?" line of thought ... Had not most of the Creek lands and political influence been swept away by the Fort Jackson Treaty, Creek descendants in the Southeast today would number in the millions. Well, maybe they still do, but not under one tribal leadership. The populations of much of Georgia, Alabama and northern Florida today would look like tall, fairer skinned Mexicans. Undoubtedly there would have been considerable intermarriage between the Creek majority in many regions and their European & African neighbors - since they had so much in common, anyway. The Capital of the Creek Nation would today be on the Ocmulgee River across from Macon, GA - rather than in Okmulgee, OK. The Creek National government would serve the needs of a million plus citizens concentrated in Georgia, Alabama, Florida and South Carolina. However, there would have been thrice as many people who proudly admitted some Creek ancestry. There would be no Seminole Tribe. The majority of Cherokees would be living in northwestern Georgia or western North Carolina, although there also would have been a sizable Cherokee population in Arkansas. Most of the Choctaws would still be in Mississippi and most of the Chickasaws would still be in western Tennessee. Roots in European Colonialism The roots of the First Creek Civil War occurred in the period between 1660 and 1763. After losing about 90-95% of their population to Spanish introduced diseases and Spanish military atrocities in the 1500s and early 1600s, the remnant Muskogean populations had relocated farther away from Spanish colonies, adopted more egalitarian governments, and generally dispersed their peoples into small hamlets. The men had again become full time hunters. They no longer had to spend long hours building mounds and structures for the elite. The architectural symbols of communities shifted from being mounds that elevated the elite above others, to large rotundas, which held the entire community for public gatherings. This meant that everybody enjoyed much better diets that included sufficient protein. Then the Horned Serpent got going in Virginia. Governor William Berkeley, a devil of a man, who already used Native American slaves on his plantations, armed an Algonquin tribe in SW Virginia. the Rickohockens, and sent them south to do an ethnic cleansing of the new colony of Carolina, which included all of what is now North Carolina, South Carolina, Georgia and Eastern Tennessee. Soon vast areas of the Carolinas and eastern Georgia were de-populated by English sponsored slave raids. The Hitchiti-speaking majority became a minority among Creeks. The Muskogee-speakers, who lived in the Chattahoochee Valley, became dominant because they did not suffer nearly as much from the slave raids. In 1684 the name Rickohocken disappears from colonial records and a new tribal name, the Chorakee or Cherokee, appears as the primary provider of Native American slaves. About the same time that the word Cherokee appears in history, the French began colonizing Alabama. Their goal was to drive a wedge of French colonies along the western slopes of the Appalachian Mountains to connect Quebec with Louisiana - forever blocking western expansion of British colonies. The British authorities in South Carolina cut deals and provided arms with this new tribe in the South, the Cherokee. They encouraged the Cherokees to expand westward in order to block expansion of French influence. The French were already exploring what is now NW Georgia in anticipation of building forts and trading posts. At this time, the Kusa Creeks of the Alabama-Coosa River Basin were the staunch allies of the French, so the French claimed the entire Coosa and Tennessee River Basins. The Hitchiti and Yama speaking Muskogeans of what is now Georgia and South Carolina rebelled against British mistreatment and slave raids in the 1715 Yamassee War. The combined attack by Hitchiti/Yama Creeks and the Choctaws wiped out most of the settlements in South Carolina. The surviving settlers were pushed literally inside the walls of Charleston. At this time 20% of the population of Charleston was Native American slaves and 40% African slaves - so a Creek siege of Charleston would have quickly eradicated the colony, forever. However, the Cherokees invited the leaders of the Creeks to a war conference in Tugaloo at the headwaters of the Savannah River to discuss an alliance. The Cherokees murdered all the Creek's leaders. They had learned the location of the Creek armies while pretending to be allies. They then attacked the Creek armies from the rear one by one. The Muskogeans withdrew from the Charleston region. The Yamassee's soon sued for peace and fled to Spanish and French colonies. The Hitchiti and Muskogee Creeks became neutrals. However, the Arbikara and Kusa Creeks in what is now northern Alabama and Georgia began a fifty year long war with the Cherokees. The French and British encouraged this war, because first, if their side won, they would get the other tribe's lands. Secondly, if both tribes exterminated each other, then there would be even more land for both European nations. After the Colony of Georgia was settled in 1732, the Hitchiti and Muskogee Creeks quickly developed warm relations with the new colony. There was a Hitchiti Creek village thriving next to Savannah up to the beginning of the Revolution. The Hitchiti's and Muskogees still disliked South Carolina, but considered it a separate country. They were generally neutral in the war between the Arbikara-Kusa Creeks and the Cherokees. However, from time to time the South Carolina British gave away Friendly Creek territory to the Cherokees as a reward for successes against pro-French tribes. Whenever the war weary Cherokees tried to sue for peace with the pro-French Creeks, the British would threaten to cut off their supply of firearms and gun powder. The British also sent spies into the western country, who would tip off British authorities when the Upper Creeks or Choctaw were about to attack the Cherokees. In one notorious instance, the Cherokees would probably have been exterminated by a massive attack by virtually all the Choctaw and Upper Creek soldiers available, but were warned by the British in sufficient time to enable them to retire to fortifications. It was during this time that many Shawnees moved into the Upper Creek lands and after a generation were known as part of the Upper Creek Alliance. When the French-British Colonial War began in 1755, the Arbikara, Kusa and Tallapoosa (Upper Creeks) were sent northeast to fight the Cherokees, the Muskogee and Hitchiti Creeks of Georgia allied themselves with the Colony of Georgia to attack the Spanish, but refused to attack their Creek brothers, who were allied with the French. Nevertheless, South Carolina and North Carolina armed and provided munitions to a massive army of Overhills Cherokees on the Little Tennessee River in Tennessee and sent them south into the Colony of Georgia to do an ethnic cleansing of the Neutral Creeks in northwestern Georgia. South Carolina promised the Cherokees that they would have all of northern Georgia as a reward. The Georgia colonial government had nothing to do with this. The division between Pro-French Creeks, Neutral Creeks and Pro-Georgia Creeks never really ended after the French were defeated. They became the three factions between the Creek Nation. During the American Revolution, the pro-Georgia Faction usually aided the Patriots, and afterward were awarded land reserves. The other Creeks were either neutral or slightly pro-British. For awhile clever Creek leaders played one colonial nation against the other, but by the early 1800s, the United States had become the powerhouse in North America, and the surviving French, English and Spanish colonies could only act as traders to the Creeks, not true military allies that could intimidate the land-hungry Americans. So, when the War of 1812 began, the three Creek factions were manipulated into taking opposing roles. The former Pro-French faction, whose leading town was originally a Shawnee town, Tuckabachee, were encouraged by the Shawnee allies of the British, to fight the Americans. The Muskogee faction were promised that they would get to stay in Georgia and Alabama forever if they fought the Red Sticks. The Hitchiti Faction generally maintained neutrality in the Creek Civil War, but supplied military units to fight the English & Seminole in Florida and help defend the coast of Georgia & South Carolina from British Raiders. The Cherokees were promised that they could stay in NW Georgia forever, if they fought their former enemies the Upper Creeks. However, the leader of the Cherokee regiment, Junaluska, came from the North Carolina Cherokee faction, which generally was at odds with the Tennessee-Georgia faction. A minor mixed-blood Creek leader, named Willam McIntosh, was named Brigadier General in charge of the American Indian army. This was a political move, since McIntosh's first cousin was Governor Troup of Georgia. Out of this witch's brew, a mediocre amateur general named Andrew Jackson from Tennessee, was saved from disaster several times by the Indians, who made up about half of his army. Jackson hated the Upper Creeks because of they killed a number of his friends in the 1780s Chickamauga War. However, he would have most likely lost the Battle of Horseshoe Bend, if was not for the clever attack by Cherokees of the Red Sticks unfortified rear on the river. Jackson showed his gratitude to his Creek and Yuchi allies, by stealing most all of their lands in Georgia as punishment them "allowing" the Red Sticks to rebel. He later showed his gratitude to his Cherokee allies by sending them to Oklahoma - with the exception of the rogue band led by Chief Junaluska. The rest is history, as they say ... **************Looking for a car that's sporty, fun and fits in your budget? Read reviews on AOL Autos. (http://autos.aol.com/cars-Volkswagen-Jetta-2009/expert-review?ncid=aolaut00030000000007 )

Thank you for the reply and explanation. Thank you again, Sam ----- Original Message ----- From: "JMSchohn" <[email protected]> To: <[email protected]> Sent: Saturday, August 16, 2008 10:45 PM Subject: Re: [CREEK-SOUTHEAST] Indian Princess > The t-shirt was meant as a joke on all the folks with a Cherokee Indian > princess great-grandmother. > > > > In a message dated 08/16/08 19:55:37 Eastern Daylight Time, > [email protected] writes: > But, is the T-shirt saying, My Grandfather was a Cherokee Indian > Princess? > Or should it have said, My Grandmother was a > Cherokee Indian Princess? > > I am lost, which is nothing new. > Tks, Sam > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "JMSchohn" <[email protected]> > To: <[email protected]> > Sent: Saturday, August 16, 2008 6:37 PM > Subject: Re: [CREEK-SOUTHEAST] Indian Princess > > >> At several pow wows I have attended, they have had t-shirts for sale that >> read "My grandfather was a Cherokee Indian Princess." >> > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without > the quotes in the subject and the body of the message

This is why I love this site. Knowledge that you can not buy, from the heart and minds, of the teacher's. Thank you for educating us. Most interesting information. Thank you for sharing. This is far better than I learned in our Arkansas schools and in life in general. God Bless each of you and I am looking forward to the next lesson. Tks, again, Sam and Carol Arkansas ----- Original Message ----- From: <[email protected]> To: <[email protected]> Sent: Sunday, August 17, 2008 11:26 AM Subject: [CREEK-SOUTHEAST] The root causes of the Red Stick War ... > Good Afternoon! > > The following is a excerpt from the three volume book I am currently > working > on, Ancient Roots V: A Mountain Patchwork Quilt. Since it deals with > what > happens to people when they are manipulated by the Horned Serpent to > think > selfishly and short-sightedly, rather than for the common good, it makes > a > good Sunday School lesson. > > The First Creek Civil War or the Red Stick War > > Because state historical markers and mainline history books dwell on the > principal leaders and battles of the First Creek Civil War, few > Muskogean > descendants today are aware of its actual roots or the catastrophic > impact it had > on all Southeastern Native American Peoples. The successful effort to > divide > and conquer the most powerful Native American political force in the > nation, > forever weakened future generations of Creeks, Choctaws, Chickasaws, > Cherokees and Seminoles in the defense of their political and territorial > rights. > This tragic event almost 200 years ago affects us even today. > > Had the First Creek Civil War not occurred, there would never have been > a > Second Creek Civil War, which paralleled the American Civil War. Few > people > seem to realize the significance that the senior Confederate generals of > both > the Creek and the Cherokee Confederate Armies had fathers who were > murdered > because they signed treaties giving away tribal land in the east: > General > Chilly McIntosh ~ Chief William McIntosh & General Stand Watie ~ Chief > John > Ridge. The Pro-Union Factions of both tribes were led by sons of > leaders, who > had opposed the sale of eastern lands. Since joining the Confederacy > meant > full citizenship, economic development, and eventual statehood, the > primary > motive for the Pro-Union leaders most likely was because their long time > enemies within the tribe had joined the other side. Over one-third of > the men, > women and children of the Oklahoma Creek Nation died in the American > Civil > War. There is no question, that the Creeks would have been the largest > tribe in > Oklahoma now, if that war had not occurred. > > Continuing the "what if?" line of thought ... Had not most of the Creek > lands and political influence been swept away by the Fort Jackson Treaty, > Creek > descendants in the Southeast today would number in the millions. Well, > maybe > they still do, but not under one tribal leadership. The populations of > much > of Georgia, Alabama and northern Florida today would look like tall, > fairer > skinned Mexicans. Undoubtedly there would have been considerable > intermarriage > between the Creek majority in many regions and their European & African > neighbors - since they had so much in common, anyway. The Capital of the > Creek > Nation would today be on the Ocmulgee River across from Macon, GA - > rather > than in Okmulgee, OK. The Creek National government would serve the > needs of a > million plus citizens concentrated in Georgia, Alabama, Florida and South > Carolina. However, there would have been thrice as many people who > proudly > admitted some Creek ancestry. There would be no Seminole Tribe. The > majority > of Cherokees would be living in northwestern Georgia or western North > Carolina, although there also would have been a sizable Cherokee > population in > Arkansas. Most of the Choctaws would still be in Mississippi and most of > the > Chickasaws would still be in western Tennessee. > > Roots in European Colonialism > > The roots of the First Creek Civil War occurred in the period between > 1660 > and 1763. After losing about 90-95% of their population to Spanish > introduced > diseases and Spanish military atrocities in the 1500s and early 1600s, > the > remnant Muskogean populations had relocated farther away from Spanish > colonies, adopted more egalitarian governments, and generally dispersed > their > peoples into small hamlets. The men had again become full time hunters. > They no > longer had to spend long hours building mounds and structures for the > elite. > The architectural symbols of communities shifted from being mounds that > elevated the elite above others, to large rotundas, which held the entire > community > for public gatherings. This meant that everybody enjoyed much better > diets > that included sufficient protein. > > Then the Horned Serpent got going in Virginia. Governor William Berkeley, > a > devil of a man, who already used Native American slaves on his > plantations, > armed an Algonquin tribe in SW Virginia. the Rickohockens, and sent them > south to do an ethnic cleansing of the new colony of Carolina, which > included all > of what is now North Carolina, South Carolina, Georgia and Eastern > Tennessee. Soon vast areas of the Carolinas and eastern Georgia were > de-populated by > English sponsored slave raids. The Hitchiti-speaking majority became a > minority among Creeks. The Muskogee-speakers, who lived in the > Chattahoochee > Valley, became dominant because they did not suffer nearly as much from > the slave > raids. In 1684 the name Rickohocken disappears from colonial records and > a > new tribal name, the Chorakee or Cherokee, appears as the primary > provider of > Native American slaves. > > About the same time that the word Cherokee appears in history, the > French > began colonizing Alabama. Their goal was to drive a wedge of French > colonies > along the western slopes of the Appalachian Mountains to connect Quebec > with > Louisiana - forever blocking western expansion of British colonies. The > British authorities in South Carolina cut deals and provided arms with > this new > tribe in the South, the Cherokee. They encouraged the Cherokees to expand > westward in order to block expansion of French influence. The French > were already > exploring what is now NW Georgia in anticipation of building forts and > trading posts. At this time, the Kusa Creeks of the Alabama-Coosa River > Basin were > the staunch allies of the French, so the French claimed the entire Coosa > and > Tennessee River Basins. > > The Hitchiti and Yama speaking Muskogeans of what is now Georgia and South > Carolina rebelled against British mistreatment and slave raids in the 1715 > Yamassee War. The combined attack by Hitchiti/Yama Creeks and the > Choctaws > wiped out most of the settlements in South Carolina. The surviving > settlers were > pushed literally inside the walls of Charleston. At this time 20% of the > population of Charleston was Native American slaves and 40% African > slaves - so a > Creek siege of Charleston would have quickly eradicated the colony, > forever. > > However, the Cherokees invited the leaders of the Creeks to a war > conference > in Tugaloo at the headwaters of the Savannah River to discuss an > alliance. > The Cherokees murdered all the Creek's leaders. They had learned the > location > of the Creek armies while pretending to be allies. They then attacked > the > Creek armies from the rear one by one. The Muskogeans withdrew from the > Charleston region. The Yamassee's soon sued for peace and fled to > Spanish and > French colonies. The Hitchiti and Muskogee Creeks became neutrals. > However, > the Arbikara and Kusa Creeks in what is now northern Alabama and Georgia > began a fifty year long war with the Cherokees. The French and British > encouraged this war, because first, if their side won, they would get the > other > tribe's lands. Secondly, if both tribes exterminated each other, then > there > would be even more land for both European nations. > > After the Colony of Georgia was settled in 1732, the Hitchiti and > Muskogee > Creeks quickly developed warm relations with the new colony. There was a > Hitchiti Creek village thriving next to Savannah up to the beginning of > the > Revolution. The Hitchiti's and Muskogees still disliked South Carolina, > but > considered it a separate country. They were generally neutral in the war > between > the Arbikara-Kusa Creeks and the Cherokees. However, from time to time > the > South Carolina British gave away Friendly Creek territory to the > Cherokees as > a reward for successes against pro-French tribes. Whenever the war weary > Cherokees tried to sue for peace with the pro-French Creeks, the British > would > threaten to cut off their supply of firearms and gun powder. The British > also > sent spies into the western country, who would tip off British > authorities > when the Upper Creeks or Choctaw were about to attack the Cherokees. In > one > notorious instance, the Cherokees would probably have been exterminated > by a > massive attack by virtually all the Choctaw and Upper Creek soldiers > available, but were warned by the British in sufficient time to enable > them to retire > to fortifications. It was during this time that many Shawnees moved into > the Upper Creek lands and after a generation were known as part of the > Upper > Creek Alliance. > > When the French-British Colonial War began in 1755, the Arbikara, Kusa > and > Tallapoosa (Upper Creeks) were sent northeast to fight the Cherokees, the > Muskogee and Hitchiti Creeks of Georgia allied themselves with the Colony > of > Georgia to attack the Spanish, but refused to attack their Creek > brothers, who > were allied with the French. Nevertheless, South Carolina and North > Carolina > armed and provided munitions to a massive army of Overhills Cherokees on > the > Little Tennessee River in Tennessee and sent them south into the Colony > of > Georgia to do an ethnic cleansing of the Neutral Creeks in northwestern > Georgia. South Carolina promised the Cherokees that they would have all > of northern > Georgia as a reward. The Georgia colonial government had nothing to do > with > this. The division between Pro-French Creeks, Neutral Creeks and > Pro-Georgia Creeks never really ended after the French were defeated. > They became the > three factions between the Creek Nation. During the American Revolution, > the > pro-Georgia Faction usually aided the Patriots, and afterward were > awarded > land reserves. The other Creeks were either neutral or slightly > pro-British. > For awhile clever Creek leaders played one colonial nation against the > other, > but by the early 1800s, the United States had become the powerhouse in > North > America, and the surviving French, English and Spanish colonies could > only > act as traders to the Creeks, not true military allies that could > intimidate > the land-hungry Americans. > > So, when the War of 1812 began, the three Creek factions were > manipulated > into taking opposing roles. The former Pro-French faction, whose leading > town > was originally a Shawnee town, Tuckabachee, were encouraged by the > Shawnee > allies of the British, to fight the Americans. The Muskogee faction were > promised that they would get to stay in Georgia and Alabama forever if > they > fought the Red Sticks. The Hitchiti Faction generally maintained > neutrality in > the Creek Civil War, but supplied military units to fight the English & > Seminole in Florida and help defend the coast of Georgia & South Carolina > from > British Raiders. The Cherokees were promised that they could stay in NW > Georgia > forever, if they fought their former enemies the Upper Creeks. However, > the > leader of the Cherokee regiment, Junaluska, came from the North Carolina > Cherokee faction, which generally was at odds with the Tennessee-Georgia > faction. > A minor mixed-blood Creek leader, named Willam McIntosh, was named > Brigadier General in charge of the American Indian army. This was a > political move, > since McIntosh's first cousin was Governor Troup of Georgia. > > Out of this witch's brew, a mediocre amateur general named Andrew > Jackson > from Tennessee, was saved from disaster several times by the Indians, who > made > up about half of his army. Jackson hated the Upper Creeks because of they > killed a number of his friends in the 1780s Chickamauga War. However, he > would > have most likely lost the Battle of Horseshoe Bend, if was not for the > clever attack by Cherokees of the Red Sticks unfortified rear on the > river. > Jackson showed his gratitude to his Creek and Yuchi allies, by stealing > most all of > their lands in Georgia as punishment them "allowing" the Red Sticks to > rebel. He later showed his gratitude to his Cherokee allies by sending > them to > Oklahoma - with the exception of the rogue band led by Chief Junaluska. > > The rest is history, as they say ... > > > > > > > > **************Looking for a car that's sporty, fun and fits in your > budget? > Read reviews on AOL Autos. > (http://autos.aol.com/cars-Volkswagen-Jetta-2009/expert-review?ncid=aolaut00030000000007 > ) > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without > the quotes in the subject and the body of the message

That is a very good one. I love it also. Neat. LOL Tks, Sam ----- Original Message ----- From: "Ghostdance" <[email protected]> To: <[email protected]> Sent: Sunday, August 17, 2008 10:39 AM Subject: Re: [CREEK-SOUTHEAST] Indian Princess >A friend of mine has a T-Shirt that says " I am part white but I just can > not prove it." I think that is hilarious! > > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "JMSchohn" <[email protected]> > To: <[email protected]> > Sent: Saturday, August 16, 2008 6:37 PM > Subject: Re: [CREEK-SOUTHEAST] Indian Princess > > >> At several pow wows I have attended, they have had t-shirts for sale that >> read "My grandfather was a Cherokee Indian Princess." >> >> >> >> In a message dated 08/16/08 18:56:57 Eastern Daylight Time, >> [email protected] writes: >> Let it not be said that our Red brothers & sisters don't have a sense >> of humor. >> A Cherokee friend of mine told me about dancing at a powwow all day >> in the hot sun, "being looked at", and hearing about white people's >> "grandmothers being Indian Princesses". >> About the end of the day he was hot, tired & just wanted to go home & >> have a beer. As he was packing up his regalia, he noticed an older woman >> hanging around, building up her courage to spead to him. My friend >> thought, >> "oh oh, hear it comes!". The lady finally spoke to say " you know my >> grandmother......". My friend interupted her saying, " I know, you're >> going >> to tell me your grandmother was a Cherokee Princess aren't you?" >> She looked very satisfactually at her husband and said, " See, they can >> tell!" >> P.H. >> >> >> >> ------------------------------- >> To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to >> [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without >> the quotes in the subject and the body of the message >> >> ------------------------------- >> To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to >> [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without >> the quotes in the subject and the body of the message >> >> No virus found in this incoming message. >> Checked by AVG - http://www.avg.com >> Version: 8.0.138 / Virus Database: 270.6.4/1616 - Release Date: 8/16/2008 >> 5:12 PM >> >> >> > > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without > the quotes in the subject and the body of the message

I've tried to find her and him in the Federal Census. Tell you what....Google "Monroe County Alabama Census" and begin your search.....and have you searched through Ancestry.com? You have to play with the programs to work figure out how to make them work for you. You can't mess them up and you can always start over again and again. I did the trial and error also. ----- Original Message ----- From: "Patti Hall" <[email protected]> To: "creek-southeast" <[email protected]> Sent: Sunday, August 17, 2008 2:10 AM Subject: [CREEK-SOUTHEAST] Sarah Narcisse Williams b1868 Monroe County,Alabama > To add to my earlier message-I guess the area is important-since this is > the > Heart of Creek Country. My greatgrandmother is from Uriah-Semirah > Springs-Jeddo area. > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without > the quotes in the subject and the body of the message >

A friend of mine has a T-Shirt that says " I am part white but I just can not prove it." I think that is hilarious! ----- Original Message ----- From: "JMSchohn" <[email protected]> To: <[email protected]> Sent: Saturday, August 16, 2008 6:37 PM Subject: Re: [CREEK-SOUTHEAST] Indian Princess > At several pow wows I have attended, they have had t-shirts for sale that > read "My grandfather was a Cherokee Indian Princess." > > > > In a message dated 08/16/08 18:56:57 Eastern Daylight Time, > [email protected] writes: > Let it not be said that our Red brothers & sisters don't have a sense > of humor. > A Cherokee friend of mine told me about dancing at a powwow all day > in the hot sun, "being looked at", and hearing about white people's > "grandmothers being Indian Princesses". > About the end of the day he was hot, tired & just wanted to go home & > have a beer. As he was packing up his regalia, he noticed an older woman > hanging around, building up her courage to spead to him. My friend > thought, > "oh oh, hear it comes!". The lady finally spoke to say " you know my > grandmother......". My friend interupted her saying, " I know, you're > going > to tell me your grandmother was a Cherokee Princess aren't you?" > She looked very satisfactually at her husband and said, " See, they can > tell!" > P.H. > > > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without > the quotes in the subject and the body of the message > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without > the quotes in the subject and the body of the message > > No virus found in this incoming message. > Checked by AVG - http://www.avg.com > Version: 8.0.138 / Virus Database: 270.6.4/1616 - Release Date: 8/16/2008 > 5:12 PM > > >

What kind of Indian....where did he live.....have you checked the Census records from Ancestry.com or Googled a county census where you suspected he lived? ----- Original Message ----- From: <[email protected]> To: <[email protected]> Sent: Sunday, August 17, 2008 5:30 AM Subject: Re: [CREEK-SOUTHEAST] Indian agents > This is a Message Board Post that is gatewayed to this mailing list. > > Author: BobbieAnn56 > Surnames: > Classification: queries > > Message Board URL: > > http://boards.rootsweb.com/localities.northam.usa.special.secreeks/1197.1.2/mb.ashx > > Message Board Post: > > Can you tell me anything about a man named anguson cooper, who lived with > or married a Indian woman he called Peggy. had a daughter named Pachel > about 1847, three sons John, Jim, and Jackson > > Any help would be nice. > thank you for your time. > Bobbie > > Important Note: > The author of this message may not be subscribed to this list. If you > would like to reply to them, please click on the Message Board URL link > above and respond on the board. > > > > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without > the quotes in the subject and the body of the message >

Hey, Perhaps your ancestors were Highlanders, could they have been at Culloden? I thought I had read your postings on at least a couple other occasions????? On Sun Aug 17 7:19 , [email protected] sent: >Hey, > >I am new to this web site. I think I am part white - Scottish to be exact - >but I can't prove it. The census records only give the race of my Creek >ancestors. The others have blank spaces for race. There is a story in my >family that my great-grandmother Janie Mae had some Scottish blood. She never >would talk about it though. Folks would ask her if she was part Scottish. She >would only say, "I don't want to talk about it. The English treated my >ancestors like dirt back in Scotland." > >Richard T. > > > >Read reviews on AOL Autos. >(http://autos.aol.com/cars-Volkswagen-Jetta-2009/expert-review\? ncid=aolaut00030000000007 ) > >------------------------------- >To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to CREEK- [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message >

This is a Message Board Post that is gatewayed to this mailing list. Author: BobbieAnn56 Surnames: Classification: queries Message Board URL: http://boards.rootsweb.com/localities.northam.usa.special.secreeks/1197.1.2/mb.ashx Message Board Post: Can you tell me anything about a man named anguson cooper, who lived with or married a Indian woman he called Peggy. had a daughter named Pachel about 1847, three sons John, Jim, and Jackson Any help would be nice. thank you for your time. Bobbie Important Note: The author of this message may not be subscribed to this list. If you would like to reply to them, please click on the Message Board URL link above and respond on the board.

Good Morning again! My Creek grandmother really was a master fried pie maker. By the 1970s she was making over $7000 a year selling home-made dried fruit pies at my grandfather's general store. That is the equivalent of about $30,000 a year today. All of us cousins would go to stay with my grandparents in the summer to help pick apples, peaches and pears. We would cut and dry the fruit on corrugated steel panels in back of the house. Now, in regard to tracing back Upper Creek ancestors, who always said they were Cherokee, but looked very Upper Creek. Upper Creeks look like eagles, by the way. Hitchiti's look like Chief Tomochichi. First of all, I have found proof that Muskogean villages in Western North Carolina and Eastern Tennessee split into factions when the Cherokees arrived on the scene in the early 1700s. Traditionalists and the elite often immigrated to Alabama and set up towns with the same name. Those who were "lower down the totem pole" tended to stay put and join the Cherokee Alliance, beca use the Cherokees had a more egalitarian culture at that time. They were a new hybrid ethnic group without a hereditary leadership once their Kitani priests were assasinated. When the Cherokees moved down into NW Georgia at the close of the American Revolution, they did not displace existing Abikara & Kusa Creek villages located in the vicinity of Rome, Cartersville, LaFayatte, Cedartown and Tallapoosa, GA. Oceola was born in an Upper Creek town near Tallapoosa. In fact, the Abikara Creeks continued to be allies of the Chickamauga Cherokees in the bloody war that continued with the Tennessee Militia until 1793. Chickamauga was originally a Muskogean village. It was the Abikara Creeks who attacked Nashville during this war. Andy Jackson was involved in the defense of Fort Davidson and hated Upper Creeks ever afterward. The Abikara were based in the Muscle Shoals, AL area, which was then part of Georgia. The Cherokee word for Creek Indian today is Kusa-agi (Kusa-agi) They use a different word for Muskogees. In other words, from the late Revolutionary War period forward, the Upper Creeks were allies of the Cherokees. An interesting fact is that I can find no record of Chickamauga Cherokees or Abikara Creeks attacking Georgia settlements, even though the Chickamauga villages were located in Georgia. Abikara Creeks were a hybrid ethnic group themselves, composed of the remnants of various Muskogean towns in Tennessee that included true Creeks, Koasati, Alabama, Chickasaw and Yuchi elements. That is why their war was entirely with the Tennessee, not with the Georgia. The Abikara claimed Tennessee as their traditional motherland. By the 1830s, at least 3000 Upper Creeks were living in the Georgia Cherokee Nation. The US Army built a fort in Rome, GA specifically to try to stem the tide of Alabama Creeks fleeing into the Cherokee Nation after the Red Stick War. The Hitchiti-speaking Georgia Creeks generally wanted nothing to do with the Cherokees and went their own way. Distinct Abikara Creek villages still stood in the Cherokee Nation until the eve of the actual Trail of Tears. Most Abikara and Kusa Creeks were not listed as Cherokee citizens and therefore, were not on the soldiers pickup list. Some cast their fate with the Cherokees and their descendants are now enrolled as Oklahoma Cherokees. Some fled back into Alabama or to regions of Georgia and South Carolina occupied by Friendly Creek state citizens. Many fled into the rugged mountains of NW Georgia (where the alleged Bigfoot body was found!) Their descendants never left the region. Until recently, they would tell people they were Cherokees, because Creeks have a reputation for not taking guff off of anybody (who? moi?) More recently some Upper Creek families have come out of the closet and admitted that they are actually bloodthirsty Creeks rather than nice, submissive Cherokees. LOL So, if you have an ancestor who was living in Murray, Fannin, Gilmer, Pickens, Union or Gordon Counties in Georgia, or Polk County in Tennessee, who look Upper Creek, but at times told people they were Cherokees, the chances are that their ancestors were actually Upper Creek refugees from the Cherokee Trail of Tears, who originally hid out in the Cohutta Mountains. Richard T. **************Looking for a car that's sporty, fun and fits in your budget? Read reviews on AOL Autos. (http://autos.aol.com/cars-Volkswagen-Jetta-2009/expert-review?ncid=aolaut00030000000007 )

Hey, I am new to this web site. I think I am part white - Scottish to be exact - but I can't prove it. The census records only give the race of my Creek ancestors. The others have blank spaces for race. There is a story in my family that my great-grandmother Janie Mae had some Scottish blood. She never would talk about it though. Folks would ask her if she was part Scottish. She would only say, "I don't want to talk about it. The English treated my ancestors like dirt back in Scotland." Richard T. **************Looking for a car that's sporty, fun and fits in your budget? Read reviews on AOL Autos. (http://autos.aol.com/cars-Volkswagen-Jetta-2009/expert-review?ncid=aolaut00030000000007 )

Good Morning! I was pulling your legs. I knew the only people interested in the Abikara would be folks searching ancestors in northern Alabama. Richard T. **************Looking for a car that's sporty, fun and fits in your budget? Read reviews on AOL Autos. (http://autos.aol.com/cars-Volkswagen-Jetta-2009/expert-review?ncid=aolaut00030000000007 )

Yes, the body of the Bigfoot was found in the same mountain valley near me where I found the golden tablets that explained the origin of the Abikara. Richard T. **************Looking for a car that's sporty, fun and fits in your budget? Read reviews on AOL Autos. (http://autos.aol.com/cars-Volkswagen-Jetta-2009/expert-review?ncid=aolaut00030000000007 )

My grandmother was Creek Indian fried pie maker! **************Looking for a car that's sporty, fun and fits in your budget? Read reviews on AOL Autos. (http://autos.aol.com/cars-Volkswagen-Jetta-2009/expert-review?ncid=aolaut00030000000007 )

To add to my earlier message-I guess the area is important-since this is the Heart of Creek Country. My greatgrandmother is from Uriah-Semirah Springs-Jeddo area.

The t-shirt was meant as a joke on all the folks with a Cherokee Indian princess great-grandmother. In a message dated 08/16/08 19:55:37 Eastern Daylight Time, [email protected] writes: But, is the T-shirt saying, My Grandfather was a Cherokee Indian Princess? Or should it have said, My Grandmother was a Cherokee Indian Princess? I am lost, which is nothing new. Tks, Sam ----- Original Message ----- From: "JMSchohn" <[email protected]> To: <[email protected]> Sent: Saturday, August 16, 2008 6:37 PM Subject: Re: [CREEK-SOUTHEAST] Indian Princess > At several pow wows I have attended, they have had t-shirts for sale that > read "My grandfather was a Cherokee Indian Princess." >

Richard, you followed that trail like a bloodhound on a scent trail! Excellent work, my friend. That "baboon with a badge" just may be in a freezer waiting for more tests... LOL Brew ========= [email protected] wrote: >Those of you researching their Upper Creek ancestors have probably run >across the ethnic name Abikara Creeks. It was the official label of the Upper >Creeks until the period of the Red Stick War. At the time of the first contacts >with Spanish and English explorers, the Kusa's were the dominant Muskogean >group in the Highlands. Suddenly in the 1700s the dominance shifted to the >Abikara and Tuckabachee Creeks of northern Alabama. I never could figure out >who these people were or where they came from. > >