Nancy.....Was this Elizabeth Fleming first wife to Thomas L. Craig from Vinton Co.Ohio???????? DCraig1707@aol.com

Nancy.....Was Elizabeth Fleming the wife of Thomas L. Craig [his first wife] from Vinton Co. Ohio .................. DCraig1707@aol.com

Yes, it is true that the Spanish intermarried with or procreated with the Dutch and Germans during their occupation. Yes, some of these children were dark. When one is talking about the Appalachian Mountains, though, the term "Black-Dutch" refers most often to the mixing of the Europeans with the Native-Americans. Due to Andrew Jackson's genocidal practices against Native groups, such as in the "Trail of Tears", there were those who were afraid to identify themselves a being Native-American. Many of these people "hid" in the mountains. When asked about their dark coloring, many said that they were "Black Dutch" or "Black Irish" in order to escape persecution, and many of them had ancestors who were Scots-Irish and German. The term "Black Dutch" is an Americanism which occurred largely due to prejudice. The group which the "Black Dutch" of the Appalachians most closely identify with are the Melungeons. There is a twist to this, however. There are records from when the first settlers from the area of the British Isles came to this continent indicating that some were told by the Native people that there were people in the Mountains who had a more European style of community than the Native people did. These people being referred to claimed to be Portuguese. It is thought that some of them descended from ship-wrecked groups who were part of the Spanish explorer outfits and that some may have been Spanish, Turk, or any other ethnicity which populated Spanish ships. The "records" I referred to were largely comprised of entries into diaries and reports back to England. This claim shows up a great deal in the Melungeon history. Anyway, no body is wrong here. It's just not a good idea to give a pat answer as to what the term "Black Dutch" means. A person has to take into consideration the geographical area in which people live. The genealogist in Knoxville who said that the term "Black Dutch" referred to the descendants of the Spanish and the Dutch and Germans is not incorrect AS LONG AS he or she also says that the term also refers to descendants of unions between European and Native-American individuals. I am an Appalachian Mountain historian and teacher and I can only speak for that history. If the Native-American part of the "Black Dutch" story is not included, then you have a peanut-butter sandwich with no peanut-butter. For those of you who may feel that this has nothing to do with CRAIG genealogy, please reconsider. Many CRAIGs were part of this Black Dutch Appalachian Mountain history. Ima ____________________________________________________________________ Get your own FREE, personal Netscape WebMail account today at http://webmail.netscape.com.

Wow! It is so neat to belong to a family that knows and cares! I have AOL. I tried John's ways, then I tried Jack's way, Then I followed Boatbeach's instructions, and it looked successful! Thanks a million! -----Original Message----- From: john brandt <jbrandt@ucla.edu> To: CRAIG-L@rootsweb.com <CRAIG-L@rootsweb.com> Date: Tuesday, April 18, 2000 4:41 PM Subject: [CRAIG-L] Deleting Footers >

>Date: Wed, 19 Apr 2000 20:07:53 -0700 (PDT) >From: LADONNA VIERTEL <middlebiscuits@home.com> >Subject: JOSEPH CRAIG >To: craig-d-request@rootsweb.com >Organization: @Home Network Member >MIME-version: 1.0 >X-From_: middlebiscuits@home.com Wed Apr 19 20:07:53 2000 >Old-Date: Wed, 19 Apr 2000 13:20:30 -0500 >X-Accept-Language: en >X-Diagnostic: Already on the subscriber list >X-Diagnostic: 81 middlebiscuits@home.com 32760 > middlebiscuits@home.com > >My brick wall is my great great grandfather, Joseph Craig born October >15, 1855 in (he said) Georgia. He was supposedly an orphan, whose >father and either an older brother or an uncle, went to the Civil War >and never returned. Joseph may have lived with family members in >Guntersville, Marshall County, Alabama as a child, but I have been >unable to find him there until the 1880 census when he was living with >the O.H. Alford family. Previous censuses do not show Joseph with them. > >Joseph married Sallie Ann Rebecca Attaway on Feb. 18, 1881 in Marshall >County, Alabama. >Since I know so very little about Joseph, I will tell you what I know >about his descendants which may provide clues. He and Sallie named >their children as follows: >Hattie (which was not Sallie's mother's name because I have her parents' >names), William, Lewis, Lonnie, Lizzie and Alice. I believe the >children's names will help connect Joseph to his parents. >So, does anyone have Craigs who came from the Georgia or perhaps South >Carolina area, who had sons named the above and who were born in 1835 or >previously, and who moved to Alabama, especially the northern part of >the state? Or perhaps someone knows of a female Craig who married and >raised her Craig nephew in Alabama. >There is also one other piece of information, whether it is of help or >not. My grandmother, who was raised for a time by Joseph and Sallie >Craig, said that she thought he was also called Adams Craig. None of >her cousins who are still alive have any knowledge of that being part of >his name. >Also, he supposedly said he was a "flannel-mouthed Scot". I've never >heard that term before. What does it mean? >Thanks for any help. Ladonna Viertel >

Thanks for posting the Irish terms. I don't know if my Craig line comes from Ireland or not but I'm starting my husband's lines & his grandma says there is a lot of Irish on her side. I'm sure those terms will come in handy. Kristin Phillips Names I'm researching: Smith, King Donaldson, Smith, Craig, Doyle, Butler Burditt, Timmons, Taylor, Sanders, Poe Tucker, Mathis, Haning, Davis Phillips, Shriver Wishall, Strecker

Right on Carol Ann - I learned at a Genealogy Conference in Knoxville, TN a few years ago that this term 'Black Dutch' referred to the descendents of intermarriage of survivors of the Spanish Armada with the people of Holland and Ost Friesland, Germany. Shirley Antrim - who can't find Edgar A. Craig outside of MO before 1900! Talk about falling out of the sky-----

I really don't know much about our Craigs as being black dutch other then what my Great ucle and grandpa had told my mother . They had said that Our craigs started in holland and some had come ove to the usa from holland in the 1800's and that we where black duch meaning that we where mixed with indians and / or germans. I really don't know how to take the term just hope and pray that someone out there will understand what i am trying to get out lol =) thanks for your information. sky ----- Original Message ----- > As far as the Black Dutch in the Appalachians are concerned--most of them are > Scots-Irish mixed with Native-American ancestry. This is especially true of > the CRAIG line. Also, the term in the Appalachians refers to Germans who mixed > with the Native-Americans. This DOES NOT mean that it can't mean something > else somewhere else. I am a specialist in Appalachian History. It is what I > teach. I cannot speak for what Black Dutch means somewhere else. The term has > been used by several different groups. That is why it cannot be tied to any > one ethnic group. It almost never refers to anyone who is Dutch, per se. > > Ima >

Can I write in for those records not being a registrar myself? Someone else suggested I do this. The funny thing is there is some kind of mistake in the ancestor roster as it is. In the 1986 roster they list 10 ladies under William Hurt Price and me under William Price Several of those 10 are my great aunts and one is my mother I got out the papers she used for me to join and they say "William H Price" Now I have never seen his name with an H but at least I should be on the same name as my mother don't you think? When I wrote the Nat'l Reg about this she returned a very short reply that it was correct as I had applied for William Price Funny I have the papers and it's not so What do I do now? Can I ask for some of those ladies' papers to help identify these two Wm Prices and does it cost something? Thanks for your help because our Registrar is out of town on a long trip and I've never met her since I just re-activated. You see I am trying to list two other ancestors as mine too. Kathy

What I Know About My Craig Family Tree. I have a lot to learn IF you have any Info please let me know. As far as I can go back are the 1800's. In the 1800's Dick Craig Lived in Holland. I have no idea what his wife's name is. I have no idea how many kids ect. I do know they where royalty in Holland and are Black Dutch. People in my family say that a few of the male Craig's where immigrants to ether Ellis Island or PA. Some way or another some of the Craig's ended up in kismet Kansas to Texas. Sometime in the late 1800's Charlie Craig married Julia {I think it was Smith}. I think he was born in: Kismet Kansas {Seward County}. I have no idea where most of there kids where born or how most of the kids got to Texas. I do know that they use to pick cotton around Wheeler Texas. Charlie had brothers I am not sure how many. The only brother's name that I know is Roy Craig he died some time around 1963 or 1964. Last known to have lived was Kansas Charlie and Julia's Kids Jack Craig, Johnny Craig, Opal Craig, Robert {Bob} Craig, Bessie Craig, Jesse Craig, Joy Craig, Lois Craig and Willy May {Bill} Craig Name: Jack Craig Born In: Kismet KS. I think not sure. Don't know the date Died: Not sure if he is dead or not Spouse: Married 2 times One Wife's name was Doris {Messer} His last known wife was a lady by the name of Linda Not sure of Her madden name. Last State And City Lived In: Bowling Green Texas Jacks Kids Victor Craig: Last known place to live was Amarillo Texas back in the 80's. No idea if Victor ever married, had kids or if he is still alive. Allen Craig: Married Carol {Henson} had a son name Stevie Craig. They divorced and Allen kept Stevie. Not known if Allen married again or had any other kids. Last known place to have lived Amarillo Texas Pretty sure he moved. Not sure if he is still alive. Doris Craig: Lives in Amarillo Texas. Still alive last I knew. Don't think she has any kids. She might be married. ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Name: Johnny Craig Born In: Kismet Ks. I think I am not sure Spouse: Never married Last State and City To Live In : Twitty Texas Shamrock Texas Kids: Johnny never had kids. He owned a farm in Texas and took in poor families, troubled kids, homeless kids in on his farm and treated them as his own. He was a Great man. JOHNNIE CRAIG Request Information SSN 465-76-8773 Residence: 79079 Shamrock, Wheeler, TX Born 30 Apr 1915 Last Benefit: Died Apr 1986 Issued: TX (1963) ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Name: Opal Craig Born In: Kismet Ks. I think I am not sure Spouse: Married once and divorced I think but not sure Last State and City To Live In: Shamrock Texas Twitty Texas. She took over Johnny's farm when he died. Kids: One daughter not sure what her name is. She was disowned because she stole from opal. Tommy Jean and Charlie Burr JR. Died: Last I knew early 90's she was still alive but she might be dead by now. ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Name: Robert {Bob} Curtis Craig My Grandpa Born In: Kismet Ks. Sep 14,1924 Spouse: Janice Craig {Henson} My grandma From: Winslow Arkansas. They met on Johnny Craig's farm. Janice was working on his farm and met Robert Craig. And they married. They divorced sometime in the 80's. Janice remarried Marion Guinn Daughter Donna Guinn Last State and City To Live In: Amarillo Texas Died: 1991 Robert and Janice Craig's Kids Linda Craig, Bill Craig, Glenda Sue Craig, Roy Craig Bill and Glenda where the only real kids of Robert Craig! But he treated the others as his own and gave them his surname. Linda Craig {Foster} Born In: Amarillo Texas 3/22/54 Spouse: She married a few times. Now married to Charles Foster. Last State and City To Live In: Lived in Amarillo Texas then moved to Wichita Falls Texas Kids: Danny, Kyle, Jen, Stephen Grandkids: Many Grandkids Died: Still Alive in Wichita Falls Bill Craig Born In: Amarillo Texas Spouse: Felicia and Darlene Not sure of There maiden names. Last State and City To Live In: Amarillo Texas and Missouri Kids: Many kids from Felicia Not sure of there names and 2 with Darlene Jen and Kim Died: Still Alive in Missouri Glenda Sue Craig (Miller) Born In: Amarillo Texas 11/12/56 Spouse: David Paul Miller Married in Amarillo Texas 9/08/72 Last State and City To Live In: Cuyahoga Falls Ohio Kids: Alicia Miller {Youngblood} And Heather Ann Miller {Dunn} Grandkids: Corey Youngblood, Cody Youngblood and Cecil Woods Died: Still Alive in Cuyahoga falls Ohio Roy Craig Born in: Amarillo Texas Spouse: Never Married and No kids Last State or City to Live In - Amarillo and Wichita Falls Texas Died: Still Alive in Texas --------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Name: Bessie Craig (Campbell) Born In: Kismet Ks. don't know for sure Spouse: Elise Campbell died of cancer She was married to a Buster Also. Last State and City To Live In: Shamrock Texas Kids: Lots of kids don't know all there names just Homer Campbell, Carol {Kidd}, Jimmy Last know place to live Arkansas. Died: Dead Not sure when ----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Name: Jessie Craig Born In: Kismet Ks. Not really sure Spouse: Don't know her name Last State and City To Live In: Cal Kids: Lots of kids not sure of there names on I know of is Joyce Craig Died: Dead -------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Name: Joy Craig Born In: Kismet KS. not really sure Spouse: Never Married Last State and City To Live In: Lived in Amarillo Texas Kids: Couldn't have kids Died: Dead ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Name: Willy May Craig (Persly) Bill Born In: Kismet KS. Not really sure Spouse: Not sure of name Last State and City To Live In: Not sure Kids: Couldn't have kids Died: Dead ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Name: Lois Craig (Neal) Born In: Amarillo Texas 3/22/54 Spouse: Married 5 or 6 times Died Lois Neal Last State and City To Live In: Lived in Shamrock Texas Kids: She couldn't have kids Died: Dead late 90's ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- This is all I know and can find out about the Craig surname of my family. If anyone has any Info about my family tree or think there family tree might be part of mine please feel free to email me at skyheather@neo.rr.com

What I Know About My Craig Family Tree. I have a lot to learn IF you have any Info please let me know. As far as I can go back are the 1800's. In the 1800's Dick Craig Lived in Holland. I have no idea what his wife's name is. I have no idea how many kids ect. I do know they where royalty in Holland and are Black Dutch. People in my family say that a few of the male Craig's where immigrants to ether Ellis Island or PA. Some way or another some of the Craig's ended up in kismet Kansas to Texas. Sometime in the late 1800's Charlie Craig married Julia {I think it was Smith}. I think he was born in: Kismet Kansas {Seward County}. I have no idea where most of there kids where born or how most of the kids got to Texas. I do know that they use to pick cotton around Wheeler Texas. Charlie had brothers I am not sure how many. The only brother's name that I know is Roy Craig he died some time around 1963 or 1964. Last known to have lived was Kansas Charlie and Julia's Kids Jack Craig, Johnny Craig, Opal Craig, Robert {Bob} Craig, Bessie Craig, Jesse Craig, Joy Craig, Lois Craig and Willy May {Bill} Craig Name: Jack Craig Born In: Kismet KS. I think not sure. Don't know the date Died: Not sure if he is dead or not Spouse: Married 2 times One Wife's name was Doris {Messer} His last known wife was a lady by the name of Linda Not sure of Her madden name. Last State And City Lived In: Bowling Green Texas Jacks Kids Victor Craig: Last known place to live was Amarillo Texas back in the 80's. No idea if Victor ever married, had kids or if he is still alive. Allen Craig: Married Carol {Henson} had a son name Stevie Craig. They divorced and Allen kept Stevie. Not known if Allen married again or had any other kids. Last known place to have lived Amarillo Texas Pretty sure he moved. Not sure if he is still alive. Doris Craig: Lives in Amarillo Texas. Still alive last I knew. Don't think she has any kids. She might be married. ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Name: Johnny Craig Born In: Kismet Ks. I think I am not sure Spouse: Never married Last State and City To Live In : Twitty Texas Shamrock Texas Kids: Johnny never had kids. He owned a farm in Texas and took in poor families, troubled kids, homeless kids in on his farm and treated them as his own. He was a Great man. JOHNNIE CRAIG Request Information SSN 465-76-8773 Residence: 79079 Shamrock, Wheeler, TX Born 30 Apr 1915 Last Benefit: Died Apr 1986 Issued: TX (1963) ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Name: Opal Craig Born In: Kismet Ks. I think I am not sure Spouse: Married once and divorced I think but not sure Last State and City To Live In: Shamrock Texas Twitty Texas. She took over Johnny's farm when he died. Kids: One daughter not sure what her name is. She was disowned because she stole from opal. Tommy Jean and Charlie Burr JR. Died: Last I knew early 90's she was still alive but she might be dead by now. ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Name: Robert {Bob} Curtis Craig My Grandpa Born In: Kismet Ks. Sep 14,1924 Spouse: Janice Craig {Henson} My grandma From: Winslow Arkansas. They met on Johnny Craig's farm. Janice was working on his farm and met Robert Craig. And they married. They divorced sometime in the 80's. Janice remarried Marion Guinn Daughter Donna Guinn Last State and City To Live In: Amarillo Texas Died: 1991 Robert and Janice Craig's Kids Linda Craig, Bill Craig, Glenda Sue Craig, Roy Craig Bill and Glenda where the only real kids of Robert Craig! But he treated the others as his own and gave them his surname. Linda Craig {Foster} Born In: Amarillo Texas 3/22/54 Spouse: She married a few times. Now married to Charles Foster. Last State and City To Live In: Lived in Amarillo Texas then moved to Wichita Falls Texas Kids: Danny, Kyle, Jen, Stephen Grandkids: Many Grandkids Died: Still Alive in Wichita Falls Bill Craig Born In: Amarillo Texas Spouse: Felicia and Darlene Not sure of There maiden names. Last State and City To Live In: Amarillo Texas and Missouri Kids: Many kids from Felicia Not sure of there names and 2 with Darlene Jen and Kim Died: Still Alive in Missouri Glenda Sue Craig (Miller) Born In: Amarillo Texas 11/12/56 Spouse: David Paul Miller Married in Amarillo Texas 9/08/72 Last State and City To Live In: Cuyahoga Falls Ohio Kids: Alicia Miller {Youngblood} And Heather Ann Miller {Dunn} Grandkids: Corey Youngblood, Cody Youngblood and Cecil Woods Died: Still Alive in Cuyahoga falls Ohio Roy Craig Born in: Amarillo Texas Spouse: Never Married and No kids Last State or City to Live In - Amarillo and Wichita Falls Texas Died: Still Alive in Texas --------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Name: Bessie Craig (Campbell) Born In: Kismet Ks. don't know for sure Spouse: Elise Campbell died of cancer She was married to a Buster Also. Last State and City To Live In: Shamrock Texas Kids: Lots of kids don't know all there names just Homer Campbell, Carol {Kidd}, Jimmy Last know place to live Arkansas. Died: Dead Not sure when ----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Name: Jessie Craig Born In: Kismet Ks. Not really sure Spouse: Don't know her name Last State and City To Live In: Cal Kids: Lots of kids not sure of there names on I know of is Joyce Craig Died: Dead -------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Name: Joy Craig Born In: Kismet KS. not really sure Spouse: Never Married Last State and City To Live In: Lived in Amarillo Texas Kids: Couldn't have kids Died: Dead ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Name: Willy May Craig (Persly) Bill Born In: Kismet KS. Not really sure Spouse: Not sure of name Last State and City To Live In: Not sure Kids: Couldn't have kids Died: Dead ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Name: Lois Craig (Neal) Born In: Amarillo Texas 3/22/54 Spouse: Married 5 or 6 times Died Lois Neal Last State and City To Live In: Lived in Shamrock Texas Kids: She couldn't have kids Died: Dead late 90's ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- This is all I know and can find out about the Craig surname of my family. If anyone has any Info about my family tree or think there family tree might be part of mine please feel free to email me at skyheather@neo.rr.com

someone else suggested that and I'm going to write for records of others under his name Thanks

It is my understanding that the term "Black Dutch" refers to people whose ancestors are of Dutch decendent who married into the Spanish or Gypsies. Some of the Melungeons claimed Black Dutch to cover their ancestry because of discrimination so don't accept the Black Dutch label as is. ----- Original Message ----- From: CAROL <carolann@wt.net> To: <CRAIG-L@rootsweb.com> Sent: Wednesday, April 19, 2000 7:43 PM Subject: [CRAIG-L] Re: "Black Dutch" > I have seen this term in regards to another surname that I am trying to > learn about. Growing up the term "Black Irish" was used to describe Irish > who were descendants of Irish and survivors of the Spanish Armada who > reached the Irish shores and settled there. It may be of no relation, but > then again, who knows... > Carol Ann > Spring, TX > > ALEXANDER, BULLARD, BURTON, BYNUM, CARRELL, CRAIG, CUMMING, MORRIS, > MURPHREE, PAXTON, PRATHER, ZAVADA > > > ==== CRAIG Mailing List ==== > All Material sent through Craig-L > is copyright 2000 by its original > author. Permission must be obtained > from the original author for the reuse > of any text "whole or in part". > Craig Genealogy Web Page > http://www.geocities.com/Heartland/Meadows/9791 > > ============================== > Free Web space. ANY amount. ANY subject. > RootsWeb's Freepages put you in touch with millions. > http://cgi.rootsweb.com/cgi-bin/acctform.cgi >

I have seen this term in regards to another surname that I am trying to learn about. Growing up the term "Black Irish" was used to describe Irish who were descendants of Irish and survivors of the Spanish Armada who reached the Irish shores and settled there. It may be of no relation, but then again, who knows... Carol Ann Spring, TX ALEXANDER, BULLARD, BURTON, BYNUM, CARRELL, CRAIG, CUMMING, MORRIS, MURPHREE, PAXTON, PRATHER, ZAVADA

As far as the Black Dutch in the Appalachians are concerned--most of them are Scots-Irish mixed with Native-American ancestry. This is especially true of the CRAIG line. Also, the term in the Appalachians refers to Germans who mixed with the Native-Americans. This DOES NOT mean that it can't mean something else somewhere else. I am a specialist in Appalachian History. It is what I teach. I cannot speak for what Black Dutch means somewhere else. The term has been used by several different groups. That is why it cannot be tied to any one ethnic group. It almost never refers to anyone who is Dutch, per se. Ima ____________________________________________________________________ Get your own FREE, personal Netscape WebMail account today at http://webmail.netscape.com.

Thank You Claire, I will keep your add ,Nancy

Claire,I am becoming a member on my Dads side by using work that was already done,but I want to do the Craig side .What DAR books can I use and What kind of library?-Nancy in Iowa

Try the IGI and OPR births for Lanarkshire, Dunbartonshire and Renfrewshire all near Glasgow .Marshall is an uncommon name and if it is there it should be easy to find - Duncan ----- Original Message ----- From: <JimCraig@aol.com> > Hi, > I have Scottish roots---also from the Glasgow area. My ggrandfather Marshall > Craig was b August 10, 1845. His father's name was William. Marshall came

It can be pretty hard when we get back so far but if someone has gone in on your ancestor already I will be happy to look in my DAR Lineage Books and I can copy off and snail mail a copy of what I find; OR if you have a Library close where you can check, that would be good. Since I am Registrar for my Chapter, I tend to write Washington for a copy of the latest ~~~~~say, oh, two or three sets of papers of ladies who have joined on the particular line I am interested in. Now, if those papers have been accepted in the last 10 years or so, then we can probably be lucky and National will accept the work done previously [should it be fortunate enough to tie in with you] but in any case, they should at least accept the Ancestor and his wife , so that means you would not have to prove that, just indicate the National Numbers on a couple of sets of papers that someone has gone in on [if of coarse, they are YOUR ancestor, natch]. Then, its good if you can locate service record of your ancestor at the National Archives; and if he received a Pension or his wife received a Widow's pension there should be a document that could be copied and sent to you of that. One of the documents I found [turned out it wasn't MY Hugh Rogers, dang it] but he was eligible for a pension and the wife had written out a paper or dictated it naming their children and their birth dates. She also had someone that had known them for a long time and there was a copy of that included also when I was sent the copies of what was in the National Archives on this matter. Another thing that always helps is a Will, Tax Lists help and so on. Claire

In a message dated 4/18/00 8:09:44 PM EST, skyheather@neo.rr.com writes: << really wished that my family tree would of been written down a long time ago so i could under stand where they came from and who they all where. >> Don't we all????????? Bud