Hi, I am interested in the McCarthy's of Bantry and Skibbereen area's Also Deasy's from Kinsale Carol

In a message dated 4/3/2002 7:09:41 AM Eastern Standard Time, CountyCork-D-request@rootsweb.com writes: > Hi, I am interested in the McCarthy's of Bantry What are the names and what are the time frames? Maryellen

-----Original Message----- From: CountyCork-D-request@rootsweb.com [mailto:CountyCork-D-request@rootsweb.com] Sent: Wednesday, April 03, 2002 7:07 AM To: CountyCork-D@rootsweb.com Subject: CountyCork-D Digest V02 #87

Does anyone know if it is as effective to send an email to the contacts listed in the link below or FAX or regular mail/post? All I have are Irish ancestors to research, so it is of great interest to me. Thanks, Margaret KIRK/SCULLY (MULLEN), REID/TAHANY MEEHAN/SAVAGE>QUINLAN, TONER/KEARNEY>MURRAY, IRVING ----- Original Message ----- From: "Larry A. Miller" <larryamiller@netzero.net> To: <CountyCork-L@rootsweb.com> Sent: Tuesday, April 02, 2002 9:46 AM Subject: [Cork] FW: Access to Irish Vital Records Got this email from one of my Irish family name lists. Thought everyone could contribute/help, if you haven't seen/heard this already. ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Some of you may recall taking part in a petition drive a couple of years ago having to do with improving access to records at the General Register Office in Dublin. The petition was circulated at the behest of the Council of Irish Genealogical Organizations, but the results were never widely made public. The petition, and the customer comments were presented to selected ministers in the relevant departments, but not given wide release at the time in hopes that direct persuasion would have the desired effect. Alas, not only has the situation not gotten better, it has gotten worse, and is due to get a LOT worse yet if proposed legislation is allowed to go through. One of the provisions of the proposed legislation is the removal of public access to original birth, death and marriage records in the superintendent registrar's offices around the country. It's not clear but what the new law might also withdraw permission for use of microfilm copies of these records at LDS Libraries around the world. But what bodes most ill for future genealogists is that records will be identified by a national identity number which will allow government departments to share information and link data on an individual without the need for identifying details. A death record, for example, would exclude information such as the deceased's place of birth, parents' names, spouse's name, or in the case of a married woman, maiden name. The new version of the death record will, however, include the "occupation" of spouse or parents. It doesn't matter to the Irish government what your grandfather's name was, just what he did for a living! Seriously folks, this is not an April Fool's joke. Please take a look at http://world.std.com/~ahern/CIGOrept.htm and consider writing to The Irish Times, and other Irish and Irish-American papers to call attention to this issue. Communicate your concerns to the relevant government ministers. Irish genealogists face enough hurdles as it is. Don't let them make it even worse. ==== CountyCork Mailing List ==== ** To contact the listowner, send a message to mpetzolt2@webtv.net **

Catherine I have checked Cokayne's 'The Combined Baronetage' without luck but this only lists baronets created before 1800 (the author died before the work was completed). Your best bet would be to find an old copy of Burke's Peerage and Baronetage. Michael ----- Original Message ----- From: "catherine.vanneau" <catherine.vanneau@wanadoo.fr> To: <CountyCork-L@rootsweb.com> Sent: Sunday, March 31, 2002 9:13 PM Subject: [Cork] Sir James Anderson Bart > I'm new to the list and I'm looking information on Sir James Anderson Bart. > > I would be very pleased if someone could help me. > > Thanking you in advance, > > Regards, > > Catherine Vanneau, France > > ______________________________

The index to Burkes peerage is online although you have to pay to get the full entries: http://www.burkes-peerage.net/sites/peerageandgentry/sitepages/home.asp Michael Could you possibly do a look up in Cokaynes for me: I am looking for Crofton (Bart) of Mohill, Co Leitrim. Thanks, Kae Lewis Kae Lewis > > Catherine > I have checked Cokayne's 'The Combined Baronetage' without luck but this > only lists baronets created before 1800 (the author died before the work was > completed). Your best bet would be to find an old copy of Burke's Peerage > and Baronetage. > Michael

I am trying to find my grandmother's sister, Evelyn Furlong, parents Francis Hodder Furlong/Clementina Hendley. She would have been born about 1878, and according to the 1911 census she was still unmarried and living with her mother Clementina. Any information would be greatly appreciated. Ann Mck.

Got this email from one of my Irish family name lists. Thought everyone could contribute/help, if you haven't seen/heard this already. ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Some of you may recall taking part in a petition drive a couple of years ago having to do with improving access to records at the General Register Office in Dublin. The petition was circulated at the behest of the Council of Irish Genealogical Organizations, but the results were never widely made public. The petition, and the customer comments were presented to selected ministers in the relevant departments, but not given wide release at the time in hopes that direct persuasion would have the desired effect. Alas, not only has the situation not gotten better, it has gotten worse, and is due to get a LOT worse yet if proposed legislation is allowed to go through. One of the provisions of the proposed legislation is the removal of public access to original birth, death and marriage records in the superintendent registrar's offices around the country. It's not clear but what the new law might also withdraw permission for use of microfilm copies of these records at LDS Libraries around the world. But what bodes most ill for future genealogists is that records will be identified by a national identity number which will allow government departments to share information and link data on an individual without the need for identifying details. A death record, for example, would exclude information such as the deceased's place of birth, parents' names, spouse's name, or in the case of a married woman, maiden name. The new version of the death record will, however, include the "occupation" of spouse or parents. It doesn't matter to the Irish government what your grandfather's name was, just what he did for a living! Seriously folks, this is not an April Fool's joke. Please take a look at http://world.std.com/~ahern/CIGOrept.htm and consider writing to The Irish Times, and other Irish and Irish-American papers to call attention to this issue. Communicate your concerns to the relevant government ministers. Irish genealogists face enough hurdles as it is. Don't let them make it even worse.

I just wanted to thank everyone who replied to my question about the border changes. Youre all so helpful! Regards, Susan Jeffery Tokyo, Japan Researching Ryan, Slattery of Co. Tipp, O'Brien, O'Sullivan of Co.Cork, IRE Researching Palmer, Sanders, Brady in central PA, USA

Hi all, I am new to the list. I am looking for a Patrick Hickey who was born abt 1791. He was married to a Margaret Savage. I am also researching the surname Kelley. This is as far as I have gotten. Thanks Cathy

Sorry I didn't give any dates. I think it should be around 1800-1820. Catherine Vanneau

I'm new to the list and I'm looking information on Sir James Anderson Bart. I would be very pleased if someone could help me. Thanking you in advance, Regards, Catherine Vanneau, France

Just a note for anyone planning to try and use the 1930 Census due for release in April. Though there is no soundex for this Census there is a group working on a Street index system for the largest US Cities not already indexed on Microfilm. The index is keyed to the ED's so if you have an address, say from the 1920 Census, you can get to the ED and Microfilm roll number you need quickly. I think they have been working on this index system for over a year now and have completed many large cities. They also have an online search system set up so you can search for the right Microfilm roll number(s) and print them out before heading out to the NARA to use the Census. Certainly not a good as a Soundex for names, but still a great help in searching this Census if your looking in the larger cities. I think their plans include indexing more and more of the larger cities as they go along. Here is a link to their user group on Yahoo http://groups.yahoo.com/group/ITWIT_Census1930/ Good Luck, Dan King NH CountyCork-D-request@rootsweb.com wrote: > Subject: > > CountyCork-D Digest Volume 02 : Issue 83 > > Today's Topics: > #1 [Cork] New Hint added on 1930 US C [mpetzolt2@webtv.net (Maura)] > #2 Re: [Cork] Shifting of Cork/Kerry [dcasey@acsu.buffalo.edu] > > Administrivia: > > Messages to the list should be sent to > CountyCork-L@rootsweb.com > > To unsubscribe from the digest send the word unsubscribe in the body of an email with no other text (leave subject line blank and turn off signature line) to CountyCork-D-request@rootsweb.com > > CountyCork Mailing List homepage (for list guidelines and how to subscribe/unsubscribe) http://community.webtv.net/shamrockroots/countycork > > To contact the listowner send a message to mpetzolt2@webtv.net > > > ______________________________ > > -------------------------------------------------------------------- > > Subject: [Cork] New Hint added on 1930 US Census > Date: Fri, 29 Mar 2002 11:37:25 -0600 (CST) > From: mpetzolt2@webtv.net (Maura) > To: CountyCork-L@rootsweb.com > > I have recently added a new Hint to my Helpful Hints for Successful > Searching page dealing with the 1930 US census. This census is about to > be released to NARA branches (LDS should have it soon), and will be a > challenge to search as there is not a soundex for all states (only > some), and there are no book indexes. The hint deals with the > challenges of this census. > The url of the Hints page is > http://community.webtv.net/mpetzolt2/helpfulhints > > Since this is an Irish genealogy list, please do not have lengthy > discussions on here about this census, as many international subscribers > may not be interested. If you need specific help, join a list for that > state or city, and ask your questions there for assistance. > > Happy Searching, > Maura > > <><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><> > Maura Petzolt mpetzolt2@webtv.net > <><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><> > SHAMROCK ROOTS homepage > http://community.webtv.net/shamrockroots/SHAMROCKROOTS > > Helpful Hints for Successful Searching > http://community.webtv.net/mpetzolt2/helpfulhints > > ______________________________ > > -------------------------------------------------------------------- > > Subject: Re: [Cork] Shifting of Cork/Kerry county borders > Date: Sat, 30 Mar 2002 06:27:30 -0500 > From: dcasey@acsu.buffalo.edu > To: CountyCork-L@rootsweb.com > > there was indeed an area of Co. Kerry in the old days, that was totally > within the borders of Co. Cork, near its west border. It is today part of > Co. Cork. My great grandfather came from there. information below. map > can be found in O'Kief series by Albert Casey: > **************** > > Called the East Fractions of Kerry. Maps are found in the O'Kief Series > as follows: Foldout Co. Cork, and Kerry, 1750 maps in front of The Ancient > and Present State of the County and City of Cork, by C. Smith, reprinted in > V. 10 of the O'Kief Series; also, map of 1641 after p. 520, V. 1, O'Kief > series. > From The Ancient and Present State of the County and City of Cork, by C. > Smith, reprinted in V. 10 of the O'Kief Series, p. 294, "A considerable > tract of the County of Kerry, called the East Fractions, is in the center > of this parish" (par. of Cullen). > From p.26, The Ancient and Present State of the County of Kerry, by. C. > smith, M.D., (1756), reprinted in the O'Kief Series by Dr. Albert Casey, V. > 10, the following: "A considerable part of Kerry, was formerly a distinct > county in itself, called Desmond; it consisted of that part of Kerry which > lies south of the river Mang, with the Barony of Bear and Bantry in the > county of Cork; and was a palatinate under the jurisdiction of the earls of > Desmond. It is true, the ancient country of Desmond or south Munster, > extended much further, as appears by the grant of K. Henry II, to Robert > Fitz-Stephen and Milo de Cogan, cited at large in my History of Cork(e). > Its limits were from the hill of St. Brandon above mentioned, to the river > Blackwater near Lymore (sp? Lijmore?), and comprehended the county of Cork, > as well as Kerry. > > The information in this footnote come from the valuable, but rare, book > Gleanings from Irish History by William F. T. Butler, published 1925 by > Longmans Green & Co. The information from this book is courtesy of Pat > Dineen, 25Mar1997. From Gleanings From Irish History: > From Gleanings, Footnote 14, p. 54, "To the 'East Fractions' belonged the > townlands of Ballydaly and Coolecarragh, now in Muskerry, Co. Cork, and > Devilish, Lemenagh, Dooneasleane, Illanbrack, and Baughallmore, now in > Duhallow, as well as the Kerry portion of Noghaval Daly." Pat Dineen says > the preceeding townlands are probably now (1997) known as Islandav, > Loumanagh, Doonasleen, Illanbrak, and Ruhill(more). > From p. 63, "Also in Magunihy, and in that part known as the East > Fractions, was seated a branch of the great bardic family of O'Daly. This > family, said to be originally from Westmeath, were hereditary poets to > MacCarthy Mor, MacCarthy Reagh, the Earls of Desmond, and O'Brien of > Thomond. In each of the terretories of these lords they had lands assigned > to them, free of all, or nearly all, charges. They held the Kerry portion > of the parish, called from them Noghaval Daly, as well as Ballydaly and > Coolcarragh which were counted, up until recent times, as part of County > Kerry, though surrounded on three sides by Muskerry and Duhallow." > > From p.78, footnote 1, "Herbert. A portion of Duhallow was counted as part > of the 'East Fractions' of Kerry down to the nineteenth century. I take > this to have been originally MacCarthy Mor's demesne" > From p.78: "4. Of Duhallow. In the foregoing pages I have dealt with > twelve of fourteen 'countries' which, according to Herbert, were subject to > MacCarthy Mor. There still remain two other territories, those of Duhallow > and Muskerry, corresponding pretty closely with the present County Cork > Baronies so named. In these terretories we find a somewhat different state > of affairs from that existing in Desmond proper. In each the subject clans > did not pay allegiance direct to the overlord; they were subject to the > immediate rule of a chief of the race of Clan Carthy, who in turn was > subject to Mac Carthy Mor. In each, also, Mac Carthy Mor's rights were > small. Besides "rising out" and the giving of the rod, he had the > 'finding' of 27 gallowglasses in Duhallow, and of 30 in Muskerry." > > Note from letter from Pat Dineen of 16Apr'97: "As per an old friend in > Ruhill, Dan Sean O'Keefe, the eastern fractions of Kerry seem to have ended > by the Griffith Valuations (1852). My friend mad an interesting point, in > that quite a few of the main families of the locality of the Eastern > Fractions had originally come from Kerry. This adds to your Forde family > tradition. > ******************************* > > --On Thursday, March 28, 2002, 12:17 PM +0000 PeteScherm@aol.com wrote: > > > To any who are interested: > > > > I have seen a few postings on this subject, and I have no idea where the > > idea originated. There were some country border changes up in Connacht > > in 1898 (and one in 1840, that I know of) and Waterford lost some land - > > which it's now trying to get back - also, in 1898. But I have > > absolutely no information of county border changes between Cork and > > Kerry since the early 1200's, when they were both shired (and the names > > were changed to "counties" later, but with no boundary changes). I'm > > sure that much of this speculation comes from PLU's and Registration > > Districts, which were centered around major towns and occasionally > > extended beyond county borders - thus confusing the > > genealogist.....again. Also, emigrants who left from Queenstown/Cobh, > > Co. Cork, were often listed as 'coming' from there, whereas, in fact, > > that was only their port of departure. > > > > But.......if anyone has any definitive information on border changes > > between Co. Cork and Co. Kerry within, say, the last 700 years.....I'd > > appreciate hearing about it, so that I can add the information to my > > maps/files. Thanks in advance. > > > > > > Pete Schermerhorn, in the glorious Berkshire hills of western > > Massachusetts > > > > > > ==== CountyCork Mailing List ==== > > ** Visit the IrelandGenWeb at http://www.irelandgenweb.com ** > > > >

there was indeed an area of Co. Kerry in the old days, that was totally within the borders of Co. Cork, near its west border. It is today part of Co. Cork. My great grandfather came from there. information below. map can be found in O'Kief series by Albert Casey: **************** Called the East Fractions of Kerry. Maps are found in the O'Kief Series as follows: Foldout Co. Cork, and Kerry, 1750 maps in front of The Ancient and Present State of the County and City of Cork, by C. Smith, reprinted in V. 10 of the O'Kief Series; also, map of 1641 after p. 520, V. 1, O'Kief series. From The Ancient and Present State of the County and City of Cork, by C. Smith, reprinted in V. 10 of the O'Kief Series, p. 294, "A considerable tract of the County of Kerry, called the East Fractions, is in the center of this parish" (par. of Cullen). From p.26, The Ancient and Present State of the County of Kerry, by. C. smith, M.D., (1756), reprinted in the O'Kief Series by Dr. Albert Casey, V. 10, the following: "A considerable part of Kerry, was formerly a distinct county in itself, called Desmond; it consisted of that part of Kerry which lies south of the river Mang, with the Barony of Bear and Bantry in the county of Cork; and was a palatinate under the jurisdiction of the earls of Desmond. It is true, the ancient country of Desmond or south Munster, extended much further, as appears by the grant of K. Henry II, to Robert Fitz-Stephen and Milo de Cogan, cited at large in my History of Cork(e). Its limits were from the hill of St. Brandon above mentioned, to the river Blackwater near Lymore (sp? Lijmore?), and comprehended the county of Cork, as well as Kerry. The information in this footnote come from the valuable, but rare, book Gleanings from Irish History by William F. T. Butler, published 1925 by Longmans Green & Co. The information from this book is courtesy of Pat Dineen, 25Mar1997. From Gleanings From Irish History: From Gleanings, Footnote 14, p. 54, "To the 'East Fractions' belonged the townlands of Ballydaly and Coolecarragh, now in Muskerry, Co. Cork, and Devilish, Lemenagh, Dooneasleane, Illanbrack, and Baughallmore, now in Duhallow, as well as the Kerry portion of Noghaval Daly." Pat Dineen says the preceeding townlands are probably now (1997) known as Islandav, Loumanagh, Doonasleen, Illanbrak, and Ruhill(more). From p. 63, "Also in Magunihy, and in that part known as the East Fractions, was seated a branch of the great bardic family of O'Daly. This family, said to be originally from Westmeath, were hereditary poets to MacCarthy Mor, MacCarthy Reagh, the Earls of Desmond, and O'Brien of Thomond. In each of the terretories of these lords they had lands assigned to them, free of all, or nearly all, charges. They held the Kerry portion of the parish, called from them Noghaval Daly, as well as Ballydaly and Coolcarragh which were counted, up until recent times, as part of County Kerry, though surrounded on three sides by Muskerry and Duhallow." From p.78, footnote 1, "Herbert. A portion of Duhallow was counted as part of the 'East Fractions' of Kerry down to the nineteenth century. I take this to have been originally MacCarthy Mor's demesne" From p.78: "4. Of Duhallow. In the foregoing pages I have dealt with twelve of fourteen 'countries' which, according to Herbert, were subject to MacCarthy Mor. There still remain two other territories, those of Duhallow and Muskerry, corresponding pretty closely with the present County Cork Baronies so named. In these terretories we find a somewhat different state of affairs from that existing in Desmond proper. In each the subject clans did not pay allegiance direct to the overlord; they were subject to the immediate rule of a chief of the race of Clan Carthy, who in turn was subject to Mac Carthy Mor. In each, also, Mac Carthy Mor's rights were small. Besides "rising out" and the giving of the rod, he had the 'finding' of 27 gallowglasses in Duhallow, and of 30 in Muskerry." Note from letter from Pat Dineen of 16Apr'97: "As per an old friend in Ruhill, Dan Sean O'Keefe, the eastern fractions of Kerry seem to have ended by the Griffith Valuations (1852). My friend mad an interesting point, in that quite a few of the main families of the locality of the Eastern Fractions had originally come from Kerry. This adds to your Forde family tradition. ******************************* --On Thursday, March 28, 2002, 12:17 PM +0000 PeteScherm@aol.com wrote: > To any who are interested: > > I have seen a few postings on this subject, and I have no idea where the > idea originated. There were some country border changes up in Connacht > in 1898 (and one in 1840, that I know of) and Waterford lost some land - > which it's now trying to get back - also, in 1898. But I have > absolutely no information of county border changes between Cork and > Kerry since the early 1200's, when they were both shired (and the names > were changed to "counties" later, but with no boundary changes). I'm > sure that much of this speculation comes from PLU's and Registration > Districts, which were centered around major towns and occasionally > extended beyond county borders - thus confusing the > genealogist.....again. Also, emigrants who left from Queenstown/Cobh, > Co. Cork, were often listed as 'coming' from there, whereas, in fact, > that was only their port of departure. > > But.......if anyone has any definitive information on border changes > between Co. Cork and Co. Kerry within, say, the last 700 years.....I'd > appreciate hearing about it, so that I can add the information to my > maps/files. Thanks in advance. > > > Pete Schermerhorn, in the glorious Berkshire hills of western > Massachusetts > > > ==== CountyCork Mailing List ==== > ** Visit the IrelandGenWeb at http://www.irelandgenweb.com ** > >

I have recently added a new Hint to my Helpful Hints for Successful Searching page dealing with the 1930 US census. This census is about to be released to NARA branches (LDS should have it soon), and will be a challenge to search as there is not a soundex for all states (only some), and there are no book indexes. The hint deals with the challenges of this census. The url of the Hints page is http://community.webtv.net/mpetzolt2/helpfulhints Since this is an Irish genealogy list, please do not have lengthy discussions on here about this census, as many international subscribers may not be interested. If you need specific help, join a list for that state or city, and ask your questions there for assistance. Happy Searching, Maura <><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><> Maura Petzolt mpetzolt2@webtv.net <><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><> SHAMROCK ROOTS homepage http://community.webtv.net/shamrockroots/SHAMROCKROOTS Helpful Hints for Successful Searching http://community.webtv.net/mpetzolt2/helpfulhints

To any who are interested: I have seen a few postings on this subject, and I have no idea where the idea originated. There were some country border changes up in Connacht in 1898 (and one in 1840, that I know of) and Waterford lost some land - which it's now trying to get back - also, in 1898. But I have absolutely no information of county border changes between Cork and Kerry since the early 1200's, when they were both shired (and the names were changed to "counties" later, but with no boundary changes). I'm sure that much of this speculation comes from PLU's and Registration Districts, which were centered around major towns and occasionally extended beyond county borders - thus confusing the genealogist.....again. Also, emigrants who left from Queenstown/Cobh, Co. Cork, were often listed as 'coming' from there, whereas, in fact, that was only their port of departure. But.......if anyone has any definitive information on border changes between Co. Cork and Co. Kerry within, say, the last 700 years.....I'd appreciate hearing about it, so that I can add the information to my maps/files. Thanks in advance. Pete Schermerhorn, in the glorious Berkshire hills of western Massachusetts

Hi Listers Seem to have hit a brick wall in tracing my roots back to Ireland. Have traced my gg-grandfather, Nicholas McAVOY b.1826 - Ireland (LDS Web site) and wife Ann MECKEN b.1828 - Ireland (LDS). They are shown to have moved to Egremont, Cumberland, England as iron ore miners and are on the 1881 Census there.(Not Nicholas who died in a mining accident 1870) I remember my father (now deceased) saying the family came from Cork. I have posted my interests on several Ireland &/or Cork Roots sites. I appreciate a lot of records were destroyed in Ireland but can anyone suggest how I might proceed from here.? Thanks in anticipation E-Mail: EddyOrion@aol.com Genealogist Researching: Eddy McAvoy Surname:-McAVOY McKEEN, WATSON. WALTON 10 Barbourne Close COCKBURN, DRUMMOND, Hillfield Cork, Lanarkshire, SOLIHULL.,West Midlands Cumberland, Northumberland & Durham B91 3TL

Susan, The answer to you question is at the intersection 42-22 On Discovery Series #89 Bill Fahy

Hi Everyone: I have just received deeds dated 1754, 1813 and 1820 and hope that some kind soul can clarify some place names and locations for me with respect to the 1754 document. William Morris of Castlesalem leases for the term of 999 years the lands described as Knockavohir "bounded on the east with the lands of Kellnecally, on the south by Carruegariffe and on the west side by the road leading from Ross to Curraghneloher and on the north by the furze ditch in the mountain from that road to Killnecally Southward of Glandine situate in Barony of Carbery and County of Corke..." I also have a deed transferring this land in 1771 and the only discrepancy in my transcription is Killnecally; Carregarriffe (without the "u") and Carraghelohev. I have Map 86 in the Discovery Series but am unable to pinpoint the location of this land. Any help would be greatly appreciated. Cheers from snowy Ontario, Susan Eddy

Can anyone tell me what it says about Kilworth and Macroney Parish in the Topo Dictionary?