Hi Robert, Hey, I am so sorry I came across as being offended at what you wrote. I certainly didn't mean it that way. I am sorry it caused such an uproar, and I am learning I need to choose my words a bit more wisely. I think we're all in the dark when it comes to the John Couches. There is a tradition (maybe fact???) that the James Couch in Clay/Perry Co KY before 1820, had Bartlett as a middle name. If this is accurate, that would sure indicate a relationship to the John & James Bartlett who were in Buckingham Co VA a few years earlier. But how to connect them is still a head scratcher. There is a very good possibility some of the Perry County KY Couches descend from James, and John Jr, as well as Martin. Best, Joyce

Lee, I have had a few folks try to tell me that my 4th gr grandmother did not exist -- that she was only a figment of someones over active imagination. In fact, no one could prove she existed, other than family tradition, and we all know how that can be. It was Windwalker who found her for us. For that I am eternally grateful !! Her name was Mary Elizabeth Boon, aka Mary/Polly, and she was married to John Couch. I descend from two of their three daughters, Nancy Ann who md William Campbell, and Sarah/Sally who md James T Lewis, Jr. When I was a little girl, my father told me of an aunt of his who went west in a wagon train and the entire family was killed by Indians. He called her Elizabeth. When I began doing family research back in the mid 1980's, I asked three living nieces of gr Aunt Elizabeth about her and her story. They knew absolutely nothing about her. She did not exist they said. My aunt accused me of dipping into the cooking sherry. In short, no one believed me. But I had not only the census, but a Bible record, and a marriage record to back me up. Elizabeth Davidson married Green Raleigh. One day I found a man named Green Raleigh (a much younger person) in our local phone book. I called him and he directed me to a descendant of Green and Elizabeth D Raleigh. Their descendant I contacted had never heard the being killed by Indians story. Thought it was very strange, until she questioned her mother and grandfather. My gr uncle by marriage had put the story out himself because he didn't want folks from KY to learn where they'd moved. I have their pictures and headstone picture to prove I was right. They came to IT c1900 in a wagon train, and are buried in Adair County OK. I might not be the brightest crayon in the box, but something like their story I did not forget. Gr Aunt Elizabeth Davidson Raleigh was a gg granddaughter of Mary Elizabeth Boon and John Couch. And I later learned her name was also Mary Elizabeth. I would like to believe she was named for Mary Elizabeth Boon, but of course, have no way of knowing. Joyce

Joyce, Have you ever had family members deny relatives just because "well so and so never mentioned him or her?" I have. I'ver even sent records to these people and letters from Aunts or cousins dating in the 1910's giving the children of certain couples plus census records with these children listed, and they still don't believe you cause they never heard of them. Been going through that for at least 10 years now. --- "Joyce H. Reeves" <[email protected]> wrote: > Hi Robert, > Am I the Joyce you speak of in your post? If so, > I think you have > confused me with someone else. I don't know enough > about your John > Couch to even make a guess - other than I found him > in SC on a census > record a few years back. I sincerely hope he is > your John. I know how > these John Couches are -- too many with the same > name !! > Let me tell you about an experience of my own. > About fifteen years, > or more, ago, I was looking on the Macon Co NC 1830 > census for my ggg > grandfather Asa Bradley. I found not only him, but > his son, Asa, Jr. > and living between the two a woman named Matilda > Hood. I copied her as > being an elderly person, and sent this "info" to > three researchers as > only a possibility that she was Asa's mother-in-law. > I always enclose > names/places with (?___?). Years later, I learned > Matilda Hood was a > young woman age 15-20 (never have learned who she > might have been), NOT > an elderly woman. This misinformation has found > it's way, via one > person, who also put it with ??, onto the internet > and some folks refuse > to change it. I mean, after all, we found it on the > internet, they > reason, so it must be accurate. The attitude is, > "who are you to think > you can tell me it's wrong?" Well, I should know > because I"M the one > who started the rumor in the first place, albeit it > quite innocently. > That is just one example among millions, I'm sure, > that has made it's > way into the internet sites and it's still being > spread around as > gospel. > So if any of you have Asa Bradley for an ancestor > -- be aware. > Matilda was not his wife's mother. > Have a nice week-end !! > Joyce > > > ============================== > Gain access to over two billion names including the > new Immigration > Collection with an Ancestry.com free trial. Click > to learn more. > http://www.ancestry.com/rd/redir.asp?targetid=4930&sourceid=1237 > __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Tax Center - File online by April 15th http://taxes.yahoo.com/filing.html

I've finally added a few more new records to the website. Many thanks to those who've contributed and please forgive my delay in getting them posted. If you find any errors, please let me know. Happy Hunting! Kathleen Couch Latshaw Kentucky Couch Kin http://swapasource.com

Hi Robert, Am I the Joyce you speak of in your post? If so, I think you have confused me with someone else. I don't know enough about your John Couch to even make a guess - other than I found him in SC on a census record a few years back. I sincerely hope he is your John. I know how these John Couches are -- too many with the same name !! Let me tell you about an experience of my own. About fifteen years, or more, ago, I was looking on the Macon Co NC 1830 census for my ggg grandfather Asa Bradley. I found not only him, but his son, Asa, Jr. and living between the two a woman named Matilda Hood. I copied her as being an elderly person, and sent this "info" to three researchers as only a possibility that she was Asa's mother-in-law. I always enclose names/places with (?___?). Years later, I learned Matilda Hood was a young woman age 15-20 (never have learned who she might have been), NOT an elderly woman. This misinformation has found it's way, via one person, who also put it with ??, onto the internet and some folks refuse to change it. I mean, after all, we found it on the internet, they reason, so it must be accurate. The attitude is, "who are you to think you can tell me it's wrong?" Well, I should know because I"M the one who started the rumor in the first place, albeit it quite innocently. That is just one example among millions, I'm sure, that has made it's way into the internet sites and it's still being spread around as gospel. So if any of you have Asa Bradley for an ancestor -- be aware. Matilda was not his wife's mother. Have a nice week-end !! Joyce

It's always good to see any transcriptions of Couch death certificates posted on the list. I'm not sure which post you were replying to but if you have some with connections to KY, I'd love to have copies to post on my website. Working on some updates today and if you see anything there you'd like to have, just holler. Kathy Kentucky Couch Kin http://swapasource.com ----- Original Message ----- From: "D Zumparelli" <[email protected]> To: <[email protected]> Sent: Thursday, April 08, 2004 9:36 PM Subject: [COUCH] Re: COUCH-D Digest V04 #26 > I saw that you were looking into Couch death > certificates. Are you also taking female Couch death > certificates? My gggg grandmother was Catherine Couch > b. @ 1795 NC. > > > __________________________________ > Do you Yahoo!? > Yahoo! Small Business $15K Web Design Giveaway > http://promotions.yahoo.com/design_giveaway/ > > > ============================== > Gain access to over two billion names including the new Immigration > Collection with an Ancestry.com free trial. Click to learn more. > http://www.ancestry.com/rd/redir.asp?targetid=4930&sourceid=1237 > >

Robert I don't think there has been ever any question of "a" John Couch from the SC region or Brunswick Nor do I doubt he is most likely from Ole Thomas line.Or no doubt on the Al line. Yes there are many 'Johns" There has to be a reasonable common link to Kentucky group 5 no doubt Our contention its not the "John" of Kentucky of which so many are attempting to challenge his pre 1806 wanderings in NC/Va/Pa When deeds, grants, and accounts have him in a set pattern and area. Myself I was a firm believer that john Couch was not married to a Mary Boon pre 1782 at one time. Till evidence surfaced, that indeed he was. Although No formal direct Boone lineage for her has been confirmed.And tons of rumors and lore has been dispelled and abated. Now you claim that I so adversely are adverse to internet research? I'm my original posts and intent, I merely say the internet is a "tool" not a documented line. Nor does "internet" validate a line nor a person. Although facts are indeed posted on the net, one has to wade through the countless tons of useless and wrong data. But never tell a person their "internet genealogy line is wrong" after all they found it on a "genealogy site" Many people make a mistake to post a line, then say info for such and such is "in my file".When you question the source, they refer to a link, linked to a link someone posted and still no SOURCE ! That is what I am so adversely against ! I have yet to see many if any post something that they claim is correct with a REAL source. I.E page xxx in NC archives or land grants for VA in xxx section Univ of Va. Or 2nd marriage book early Orange Co marriages page xxx. Thus a cross check can be made of the original source and true validated copies can be made. Internet research is only as good as the person posting it.... get my drift? If they cant give nothing more than a "link" to a page someone has published then be highly doubtful of it , TILL it can be sourced. If it cant trash it. The absolute main problem with Internet research is people posting non verified data !!!! Internet documentation is NOT source data if a quote from a official office is given. Internet documentation ONLY will not get one into the D.A.R/S.A.R or the S.O.C what it will do is provide in some cases the place the data CAN be obtained for verification. In the past I have provided some, links and places they can obtain original historical accounts and documentation. And places they can obtain original documents at cost... NOTE at cost. These people refuse to get original copies, thus choosing "free" info and that's where 95% of the problem comes into play. As I have said you do have a link "somewhere in group 5" What that tie is at this point is unknown. But I don't see relying totally on DNA, will reveal anything. No where at any time has anyone ever challenged a Thomas Couch nor his relation to a "John" Couch. In some cases census records are highly in accurate. Due to transcription problems, The qualifications of the person transcribing it how they verbatim exactly copy it or even spell it. Land Deeds: Just because Joe Blow is shown with a land deed for a given time frame don't mean they actually lived there !! In some cases it simply means they filed and was granted a grant. They could have moved on and in a majority of cases they had others 'prove" the claim/grant up. A form of sharecropping a grant, thus occupying a grant for a person via proxy. And it was commonly done. Lets face it 90% of people use solely census data... never going beyond that. Or someone else's Internet published line modified for their particular line. In conclusion What I would like to see , is if someone publishes a "file", line or tree at least give data for someone to cross check it and get the original files or verified copies And I know that wont be done. Why?? most people wont spend a dime on genealogy documents. They will spend money on CD,s from a funky genealogy site. That gets their info from highly questionable sources. Although they DO give census data on some sites. Its still not the same as original documentation. Again no one has questioned your Thomas/John Couch lineage.Nor the Brunswick line or the AL/SC line. But if one would publish say... John Couch of either Mary or Elizabeth line that he is from SC/Al.. I myself would ask for a place to obtain hard copy on that theory and I would contest that conclusion based on documentation that would be cross checked offsite Do I believe one person or site or list or DNA clearing house, should be the sole authority on the complexity of the Couch lines? Absolutely not ! ----- Original Message ----- From: "Couch, Robert H. " <[email protected]> To: <[email protected]> Sent: Friday, April 08, 1904 7:11 PM Subject: Re: [COUCH] Martin Couch Family in and around Leslie County,Kentucky > Let me say that my first records of John Couch Sr was provided from a > personal contact with a couple of researches that I have come to respect. > Their charts have been augmented with data that I have found in hard, data, > in libraries I have visite throughout the south. My hypothesis come from > first from primary sources from census and land records. I have a copy of a > handwritten document of the will Of Ole Thomas Couch of Enoree, SC. Thus I > have documented proof that his son John Sr and wife Mary are administrators > of that will probated in 1784. So, despite what any Kentucky Couch may say > there was indeed a Thomas Couch in Enoree, SC who had a son named John. > This does not deny any other John Couch anywhere. I have documented quite a > few throughout the south. > > Land records and census data around 1798 through 1800 prove, through > documentation, that John Couch lived in Greenville County, SC. Near him on > the north fork of the Saluda river were Drury, Benjamin, Thomas, and other > Couches seemingly related to the Couches of Enoree. > > I also have census records and land records documenting that a John Couch, a > John Couch JR and a Thomas Couch were in Madison County, AL as early as > 1808. John, John Jr and Thomas Couch were also counted in the Mississippi > Territory census of 1809. Land records there officially show these three > had adjacent 60 acres farms on Indian Creek in Madison County, Al (then MS > terr). All this is documented as well as anything else is documented. There > is no Doubt. > > > Then, 20 years into my research when I discoverd the internet and the mass > amount of information (and misinforamtion) that is contained on the > internet I have found and used internet dat to either verify, question or > negate the basic solid documented data that I have. I too have seen things > on the internet that I am prettu sure is not correct. Yet, the amount of > data availale is most helpful although not set in stone. No one would rely > only only on Internet data. > > Then comes the DNA tests. I do not know if the DNA data is absolutely > correct but I am again using it as a tool to test my hypotheses. Thus far, > many of those in Group 5 have led me to confirm my orginal speculation and > support my hypotheses. More data from DNA is supporting what I had in my > orginial hard, documented data. Yet, there is also DNA data that I am not > sure of and must investigate more throughly. I am now wrapped up in that > process. > > When Joyce and Bill Couch who confidently dismiss any claim I might have to > a relationship with a John Couch I must take their doubts seriously and seek > information to either confirm or deny their doubts. Yet, neither Joyce nor > Bill Couch have offered any proof that negates the docmented relationship to > a John Couch Sr. Like Bill Couch, I too question the hypothesis that Thomas > Couch in my line is indeed a son of John Couch Sr of Madison Co,AL and > Lawreenc County, Al. > > Yet, until I have documented proof I shall maintian my tenative hyposthesis > about my Couch relatives. I am not impressed with those who critize without > offering some documented proof through primary sources that will lead to my > abandoning my hypothesis. > > Let us seek the truth together without any smug, self rightous, have all the > answers so called expert genealogy expert. > > Somewhat disgusted, > > Robert H. Couch > > > > > Later, the internet that Windwalker is so adamant in belittling I have used > to either confirm or deny my original hypothesis. > ---------- > >From: "Windwalker" <[email protected]> > >To: [email protected] > >Subject: Re: [COUCH] Martin Couch Family in and around Leslie County,Kentucky > >Date: Thu, Apr 8, 2004, 10:33 AM > > > > > > >----- Original Message ----- > >From: "Joyce H. Reeves" <[email protected]> > > > >Subject: Re: [COUCH] Martin Couch Family in and around Leslie > >County,Kentucky > > > > > >> Hey Robert, > >> Just a friendly reminder that "most KY Couches" are not confused > >> about who our ancestor was. "Most of us" are well aware that John, Sr > >> was the father of Martin, John, Mary/Polly, Nancy Ann and Sarah. James > >> and Austin I'm not too sure about. They could just as easily have > >> belonged to Joseph Couch of 1800 Ashe Co NC, aka "Montgomery" Joe, who > >> we think, but cannot prove 100% was brother of John. All available > >> evidence points to their having been brothers. > >> Just because John is no longer listed on the Couch website, as father > >> of Martin, does not mean we don't know who he was. I never understood > >> why he was removed in the first place. > >> Joyce > >============================================================ > >Addition: > >Joyce has made a important point. The "site" no longer lists Martin as being > >the son of John Sr of Kentucky. Nor is a close resemblance of the line being > >factually > >being depicted {Kentucky lineage}. This is due impart to "internet > >researchers" changing lines to fit their needs, without benefit of > >documentation and some solely relying on "DNA" results. Some of the most > >important research was done by JP Doward, although NOT without errors, But > >the basic Kentucky Lineage is intact. Others have followed the paper trail > >and found some wrong, but alot whole and intact. > >I agree with Joyce, that John and Joseph were indeed brothers or Father/Son > >as evidenced by the early land deeds in VA and NC. We have seen nothing > >documenting that John Couch of KY had been in or around SC , its our > >contention, that is a different Couch lineage.And research more or less so > >dictates that. DNA testing indeed has placed some in the Kentucky lineage > >direct, it also has dispelled and exempted some whom think they are of > >Kentucky lineage and have posted their lineage as correct. > >{See test results for group 5 and ones whom have failed linkage} > >It is highly possible a direct link is at hand for a Thomas Couch lineage, > >but I feel its more of intermarriage between clans, than direct. NOTE there > >is two distinct lineage's in Kentucky of the Couch Line.Those whom have > >direct people in the line and has been documented and those who don't, yet > >are placing their Couch ancestors in the line where they think "they fit". > >There are also ones mixing up the two lines cause they cant find where they > >fit and see a name and think its the one they are looking for. Then they go > >back to corrupt the original info/documentation or validate it incorrect. > >Be advised the Couchgenweb is mostly for southern lines of the Couch line. > >And Bill has limited info on the Kentucky Line except what is gleaned from > >others as correct {I.E no documented evidence is being given for anyone to > >modify a line beyond a internet file. > >Be highly careful in researching the Kentucky line and fully document every > >earliest member you can. Use the internet files ONLY as a clue and not as a > >source. > > > >Austin Couch: Son of Martin Couch:: > >There is also a Austin Couch Sr that has not been directly linked to the > >Kentucky Couch line. Although being researched he was in Kentucky in 1770 > >and being in the Indian Wars. He at one point settled at Limestone Kentucky > >{Maysville} and also Sandy River Kentucky.Some researchers have reported > >that he was at the battle of Pt Pleasant with a party of Longhunters. later > >documents indicate he settled in the Kanawha Valley for a time {Same > >timeframe as the Boones} and later crossed into NC via what's now Montgomery > >Co. > >In conclusion.... research your line on Kentucky carefully!!!!! > > > > > > > > > > > >============================== > >Gain access to over two billion names including the new Immigration > >Collection with an Ancestry.com free trial. Click to learn more. > >http://www.ancestry.com/rd/redir.asp?targetid=4930&sourceid=1237 > > > > > ============================== > Gain access to over two billion names including the new Immigration > Collection with an Ancestry.com free trial. Click to learn more. > http://www.ancestry.com/rd/redir.asp?targetid=4930&sourceid=1237 > >

John Daniel was born abt 1785 married Catherine Couch. I don't know how she connect yet Your John Daniel was a Jr. and his father was John Daniel sr who married Susannah Couch. She was probably a sister to Edward V. Couch. I have been working on all these that was still there in Orange Co. around 1800 and it sure get interesting. I have a death date of 11 mar 1917 for Frances M. Daniel is this correct? Yes, this is correct. My Frances M (Daniel) Brown, daughter of John Daniel and Catherine Couch, was born June 08, 1823 NC and died in Kentucky March 11, 1917. Dotty __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Small Business $15K Web Design Giveaway http://promotions.yahoo.com/design_giveaway/

John Daniel was born abt 1785 married Catherine Couch. I don't know how she connect yet Your John Daniel was a Jr. and his father was John Daniel sr who married Susannah Couch She was probably a sister to Edward V. Couch I have been working on all these that was still there in Orange Co.around 1800 and it sure get interesting. I have a death date of 11 mar 1917 for Frances M. Daniel is this correct ? Now back to the John Daniel They all came out of Middlesex co Va. I also have another one that seem to come from the same location and his descendants went to Georgia Have your run into a John Osborn Daniel up there any place. This line connect to my Couch line in Gwinnett co. GA. This is another case of too many John's in one place. On Catherine I do know all the Couch line that was living around her and there is not a lots of coices left Bill Couch ----- Original Message ----- From: D Zumparelli <[email protected]> To: <[email protected]> Sent: Thursday, April 08, 2004 6:39 PM Subject: [COUCH] Re: COUCH-D Digest V04 #26 > Death certificate note on Catherine (Couch) > Daniel/Dannel. Sorry, I don't have her certificate but > I do have her daughter's, Francis M (Daniel) Brown. It > lists Catherine Couch as her mother. > > __________________________________ > Do you Yahoo!? > Yahoo! Small Business $15K Web Design Giveaway > http://promotions.yahoo.com/design_giveaway/ > > > ============================== > Gain access to over two billion names including the new Immigration > Collection with an Ancestry.com free trial. Click to learn more. > http://www.ancestry.com/rd/redir.asp?targetid=4930&sourceid=1237 >

Less just say no one was at falt and get down to Genealogy on this list. We are of of the same family and if we don't work together we will never break down these brick walls. One person just can't do it. there is not enough time in a life time. we have lots of lines that have not took the DNA test, and they keep improving on the DNA . Just think I recall back when Edna Couch of Oklahoma did lots of Couch research, I was never at her house but talked to other who had visited her. they said her house was like a library with Couch documents and books. Now that she is dead no one seems to know what happend to all her research. Most everyone has a pretty good idea that our group 5 can get back to Thomas & Elizabeth in Virginia 1700 but we have gaps in between. If we could just break down one of the brick wall I think we could put most of the pices together. Bill Couch ----- Original Message ----- From: Joyce H. Reeves <[email protected]> To: <[email protected]> Sent: Thursday, April 08, 2004 6:31 PM Subject: Re: [COUCH] > Hi John, > I'm really sorry, I didn't mean to get a hornests nest stirred up > either. I have found I'm allergic to their sting !! You were not at > fault. I was. > Joyce > > > ============================== > Gain access to over two billion names including the new Immigration > Collection with an Ancestry.com free trial. Click to learn more. > http://www.ancestry.com/rd/redir.asp?targetid=4930&sourceid=1237 >

Thanks John, Try to send me another message they have been working on my server and you should be able to get through, If not post another one here and let me know. Bill ----- Original Message ----- From: John Couch <[email protected]> To: <[email protected]> Sent: Thursday, April 08, 2004 5:15 PM Subject: [COUCH] > Hello everyone, > > I didn't mean to stir the hornets nest up. As far as anything I've found on the internet goes, I just use that stuff as a guide. It gives me a place to start then I either prove what I found, disprove it or add something to it. I've found many errors on the files I've seen, and I'm sure there are errors in my research as well. > > What I can prove so far is a direct line back to Eli Couch. From myself to Eli the male line would go: Me, Gerald Pleasant(Pleasie), Farmer(Faroner), John, Eli. I have death certificates for Gerald, Farmer and John that list their father's name. I'm going to Leslie county this weekend(Easter weekend) and will have Pleasie's then. Until then, you can search the 1920 Leslie County Census, Big Creek Precinct, for Mahala Couch as head of household and see Pleasant listed there. Farmer isn't listed because he was already dead. > > As far as Bill's site goes, it does indeed list Martin as son of John. I use Bill's site almost exclusively as a guide whenever I'm looking over any records. His is as accurate as any I've seen on the internet and much more comprehensive. However, it does have errors. In his defense, Bill even mentions on his site that it probably has errors. All the errors I've seen is the reason I have been working on the John(S/o Eli) family. I need to get that straightened out before going any further back. > > I don't know if there are 2 distinct Couch lines in Ky or not. As I've mentioned before, I was mainly looking at the John Couch(s/o Eli) family and related families in Leslie County. I can say this though. The Couches in Leslie County almost entirely descend from Eli. > > Robert, interestingly my name John comes from my mother's side, where it appears to have been passed down atleast 5 generations. It's merely coincidence that I add yet another John Couch. In fact, no one in my family calls me John. They call me J.R.(the letters, not junior). Now that's more of a good old Couch nickname. > > > > ============================== > Gain access to over two billion names including the new Immigration > Collection with an Ancestry.com free trial. Click to learn more. > http://www.ancestry.com/rd/redir.asp?targetid=4930&sourceid=1237 >

Hi John, I'm really sorry, I didn't mean to get a hornests nest stirred up either. I have found I'm allergic to their sting !! You were not at fault. I was. Joyce

Hello everyone, I didn't mean to stir the hornets nest up. As far as anything I've found on the internet goes, I just use that stuff as a guide. It gives me a place to start then I either prove what I found, disprove it or add something to it. I've found many errors on the files I've seen, and I'm sure there are errors in my research as well. What I can prove so far is a direct line back to Eli Couch. From myself to Eli the male line would go: Me, Gerald Pleasant(Pleasie), Farmer(Faroner), John, Eli. I have death certificates for Gerald, Farmer and John that list their father's name. I'm going to Leslie county this weekend(Easter weekend) and will have Pleasie's then. Until then, you can search the 1920 Leslie County Census, Big Creek Precinct, for Mahala Couch as head of household and see Pleasant listed there. Farmer isn't listed because he was already dead. As far as Bill's site goes, it does indeed list Martin as son of John. I use Bill's site almost exclusively as a guide whenever I'm looking over any records. His is as accurate as any I've seen on the internet and much more comprehensive. However, it does have errors. In his defense, Bill even mentions on his site that it probably has errors. All the errors I've seen is the reason I have been working on the John(S/o Eli) family. I need to get that straightened out before going any further back. I don't know if there are 2 distinct Couch lines in Ky or not. As I've mentioned before, I was mainly looking at the John Couch(s/o Eli) family and related families in Leslie County. I can say this though. The Couches in Leslie County almost entirely descend from Eli. Robert, interestingly my name John comes from my mother's side, where it appears to have been passed down atleast 5 generations. It's merely coincidence that I add yet another John Couch. In fact, no one in my family calls me John. They call me J.R.(the letters, not junior). Now that's more of a good old Couch nickname.

Death certificate note on Catherine (Couch) Daniel/Dannel. Sorry, I don't have her certificate but I do have her daughter's, Francis M (Daniel) Brown. It lists Catherine Couch as her mother. __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Small Business $15K Web Design Giveaway http://promotions.yahoo.com/design_giveaway/

I saw that you were looking into Couch death certificates. Are you also taking female Couch death certificates? My gggg grandmother was Catherine Couch b. @ 1795 NC. __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Small Business $15K Web Design Giveaway http://promotions.yahoo.com/design_giveaway/

Look you seem to have a problem NOTHING was stirred up ! Caution was advised on ANY internet research period from ANY SITE making no difference who it is. You are the one whom is attempting to "stir" rather than digest the context of my post in its "caution" meaning, you came back with flames... If you don't like a post, then simply delete it, or better yet don't reply ----- Original Message ----- From: "Dina Couch Jeffers" <[email protected]> To: <[email protected]> Sent: Thursday, April 08, 2004 12:35 PM Subject: Re: [COUCH] Martin Couch Family in and around Leslie County,Kentucky > Then quit stirring up trouble so the rest of us can share. > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Windwalker" <[email protected]> > To: <[email protected]> > Sent: Thursday, April 08, 2004 2:29 PM > Subject: Re: [COUCH] Martin Couch Family in and around Leslie > County,Kentucky > > > > Believe me. I dont as well as a lot of others in the blood line > > ----- Original Message ----- > > From: "Dina Couch Jeffers" <[email protected]> > > To: <[email protected]> > > Sent: Thursday, April 08, 2004 12:23 PM > > Subject: Re: [COUCH] Martin Couch Family in and around Leslie > > County,Kentucky > > > > > > > > > > Who is "changing lines to fit their needs, without benefit of > > > documentation"? I wouldn't share the documentation either with those > who > > > are so willing to snap at others and point fingers. > > ================================================= > > > > > > ============================== > > Gain access to over two billion names including the new Immigration > > Collection with an Ancestry.com free trial. Click to learn more. > > http://www.ancestry.com/rd/redir.asp?targetid=4930&sourceid=1237 > > > > > > > > ============================== > Gain access to over two billion names including the new Immigration > Collection with an Ancestry.com free trial. Click to learn more. > http://www.ancestry.com/rd/redir.asp?targetid=4930&sourceid=1237 > >

Thank you Bill. Last time I looked, I didn't find John. I'm happy to hear he's still around. He sure is a hard feller to pin down, isn't he? He and Mary/Polly moved around a lot during their lifetime, and he's still being as elusive as ever. Joyce

Then quit stirring up trouble so the rest of us can share. ----- Original Message ----- From: "Windwalker" <[email protected]> To: <[email protected]> Sent: Thursday, April 08, 2004 2:29 PM Subject: Re: [COUCH] Martin Couch Family in and around Leslie County,Kentucky > Believe me. I dont as well as a lot of others in the blood line > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Dina Couch Jeffers" <[email protected]> > To: <[email protected]> > Sent: Thursday, April 08, 2004 12:23 PM > Subject: Re: [COUCH] Martin Couch Family in and around Leslie > County,Kentucky > > > > > > Who is "changing lines to fit their needs, without benefit of > > documentation"? I wouldn't share the documentation either with those who > > are so willing to snap at others and point fingers. > ================================================= > > > ============================== > Gain access to over two billion names including the new Immigration > Collection with an Ancestry.com free trial. Click to learn more. > http://www.ancestry.com/rd/redir.asp?targetid=4930&sourceid=1237 > >

Believe me. I dont as well as a lot of others in the blood line ----- Original Message ----- From: "Dina Couch Jeffers" <[email protected]> To: <[email protected]> Sent: Thursday, April 08, 2004 12:23 PM Subject: Re: [COUCH] Martin Couch Family in and around Leslie County,Kentucky > > Who is "changing lines to fit their needs, without benefit of > documentation"? I wouldn't share the documentation either with those who > are so willing to snap at others and point fingers. =================================================

I found Martin on the Couch Website: http://www.couchgenweb.com/couch/johnc.htm and then you can click on Martin and go to another page that has his descendents. Robert didn't say that KY Couches were confused. Only that "somewhat confused about which John is which". And I too think it gets confusing when trying to find information on a John Couch. Who is "changing lines to fit their needs, without benefit of documentation"? I wouldn't share the documentation either with those who are so willing to snap at others and point fingers. This discourages others from posting useful information or asking for assistance for fear of conflict. How about we go back to the original message. John Couch has documentation that he has very kindly offered to share. Dina Couch Jeffers ----- Original Message ----- From: "Windwalker" <[email protected]> To: <[email protected]> Sent: Thursday, April 08, 2004 11:33 AM Subject: Re: [COUCH] Martin Couch Family in and around Leslie County,Kentucky > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Joyce H. Reeves" <[email protected]> > > Subject: Re: [COUCH] Martin Couch Family in and around Leslie > County,Kentucky > > > > Hey Robert, > > Just a friendly reminder that "most KY Couches" are not confused > > about who our ancestor was. "Most of us" are well aware that John, Sr > > was the father of Martin, John, Mary/Polly, Nancy Ann and Sarah. James > > and Austin I'm not too sure about. They could just as easily have > > belonged to Joseph Couch of 1800 Ashe Co NC, aka "Montgomery" Joe, who > > we think, but cannot prove 100% was brother of John. All available > > evidence points to their having been brothers. > > Just because John is no longer listed on the Couch website, as father > > of Martin, does not mean we don't know who he was. I never understood > > why he was removed in the first place. > > Joyce > ============================================================ > Addition: > Joyce has made a important point. The "site" no longer lists Martin as being > the son of John Sr of Kentucky. Nor is a close resemblance of the line being > factually > being depicted {Kentucky lineage}. This is due impart to "internet > researchers" changing lines to fit their needs, without benefit of > documentation and some solely relying on "DNA" results. Some of the most > important research was done by JP Doward, although NOT without errors, But > the basic Kentucky Lineage is intact. Others have followed the paper trail > and found some wrong, but alot whole and intact. > I agree with Joyce, that John and Joseph were indeed brothers or Father/Son > as evidenced by the early land deeds in VA and NC. We have seen nothing > documenting that John Couch of KY had been in or around SC , its our > contention, that is a different Couch lineage.And research more or less so > dictates that. DNA testing indeed has placed some in the Kentucky lineage > direct, it also has dispelled and exempted some whom think they are of > Kentucky lineage and have posted their lineage as correct. > {See test results for group 5 and ones whom have failed linkage} > It is highly possible a direct link is at hand for a Thomas Couch lineage, > but I feel its more of intermarriage between clans, than direct. NOTE there > is two distinct lineage's in Kentucky of the Couch Line.Those whom have > direct people in the line and has been documented and those who don't, yet > are placing their Couch ancestors in the line where they think "they fit". > There are also ones mixing up the two lines cause they cant find where they > fit and see a name and think its the one they are looking for. Then they go > back to corrupt the original info/documentation or validate it incorrect. > Be advised the Couchgenweb is mostly for southern lines of the Couch line. > And Bill has limited info on the Kentucky Line except what is gleaned from > others as correct {I.E no documented evidence is being given for anyone to > modify a line beyond a internet file. > Be highly careful in researching the Kentucky line and fully document every > earliest member you can. Use the internet files ONLY as a clue and not as a > source. > > Austin Couch: Son of Martin Couch:: > There is also a Austin Couch Sr that has not been directly linked to the > Kentucky Couch line. Although being researched he was in Kentucky in 1770 > and being in the Indian Wars. He at one point settled at Limestone Kentucky > {Maysville} and also Sandy River Kentucky.Some researchers have reported > that he was at the battle of Pt Pleasant with a party of Longhunters. later > documents indicate he settled in the Kanawha Valley for a time {Same > timeframe as the Boones} and later crossed into NC via what's now Montgomery > Co. > In conclusion.... research your line on Kentucky carefully!!!!! > > > > > > ============================== > Gain access to over two billion names including the new Immigration > Collection with an Ancestry.com free trial. Click to learn more. > http://www.ancestry.com/rd/redir.asp?targetid=4930&sourceid=1237 >