In certain periods of history when epidemics nearly wiped out some families, an early death might also result in wrong information on a death certificate. My maternal grandmother died of tuberculosis at the age of 34, having already lost both parents, all four grandparents, all her siblings except the brother away at sea, and her husband to either tuberculosis or typhoid. She left only three daughters ages 5-14, and the 14-year-old was the informant for her death certificate. Some of the information is correct, and other information is not. Loretta -----Original Message----- From: [email protected] [mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf Of Margaret Donnelly Sent: Wednesday, July 10, 2013 9:55 PM To: [email protected]; 'Brian'; [email protected] Subject: Re: [CoTyIre] COTYRONEIRELAND Digest, Vol 8, Issue 181 In the USA, we are also taught to rely more on earlier/earliest records. Mom or Dad reports the birth details - they were there! On death records, the informant is less likely to have first-hand knowledge, especially for someone who has had a long life. -----Original Message----- From: [email protected] [mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf Of ctrewby Sent: Wednesday, 10 July, 2013 9:22 PM To: Brian; [email protected] Subject: Re: [CoTyIre] COTYRONEIRELAND Digest, Vol 8, Issue 181 Here in NZ the most knowledgeable/experienced genealogists always tell us to give more weight to a marriage certificate about the parties as to get one of those you needed to be there with your spouse etc and were more likely, normally, to give your own names and details correctly. I am not delving into the times where details were incorrect deliberately or when those recording misheard or when it has been transcribed incorrectly later. Many chances for records to end up oddly. On death the notice of death is by an informant who may or may not be a family member, sometimes could be neighbour. Younger members of the family acting as informants may have not listened or misheard when mum or dad was talking of their parents and as you say wrote what they thought. No malice usually just a lack of knowledge. If you can find prior and later documentation of the names on the marriage certificates (and this you may be able to get this by tracking brothers and sisters marriages) then I would be inclined to enter the death record but to note it that they may have the names wrong. If the death informants are not family then that could explain discrepancies and I would note that. Cathy ----- Original Message Follows ----- > > I have found discrepancies as well. We were going on parents' > names from a > death certificate. Finally found a copy of a marriage application > and the > last name of the mother was not the same. I am positive that I > have the > correct records for both. I wondered if when the death certificate > was > filled out they told the name they "thought" was correct at the > time, even > if inaccurate. I began to search both names to see > if I could get > anywhere. Haven't yet, but will keep trying. > > Brian Adams > > [email protected] > > > On 07/10/13, [email protected] > wrote: > > You are receiving this email because you subscribed to the > CoTyroneIreland-D > mailing list. If you no longer wish to receive these messages, or > if you > wish to search or browse the archives, or if you wish to > unsubscribe from > digest mode and subscribe in list mode, see > > [1]http://lists.rootsweb.com/index/intl/NIR/CoTyroneIrelan > d.htmlforlinks > and instructions. See [2]http://cotyroneireland.com/ for our > associated web > site. > Today's Topics: > 1. Marriage Records (Pat H) > 2. Re: Marriage Records (Margaret Donnelly) > 3. Re: Marriage Records ([3][email protected]) > 4. Marriage Records (Pat H) > > ---------------------------------------------------------- > ------------ > Message: 1 > Date: Tue, 9 Jul 2013 17:42:08 +1000 > From: Pat H <[4][email protected]> > Subject: [CoTyIre] Marriage Records > To: [5][email protected] > Message-ID: > > <CAO7-Kqh_B7aZ9=-QZyhNqdM+wyvB-R[6][email protected] > il.gmail.com> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 > I have received a marriage certificate for a marriage in 1883 which > I > hoped would be for my great,great uncle. However, the name of the > father of > the groom is not who I expected, in fact he has the same name as > the groom. > I first assumed that I had the wrong person but the name of a > witness and > the location of the wedding suggest this could be my relative. > There is one > mistake in the first name of a witness which has been crossed out > and a new > name written. There are also look to be a few ink blots which makes > me > wonder if whoever filled in the register was a bit careless. > I was wondering if anyone else has come across errors on marriage > certificates. I am undecided as to whether I have the right > certificate or > not but am reluctant to dismiss it due to one name being incorrect. > Cheers > Pat > ------------------------------ > Message: 2 > Date: Tue, 9 Jul 2013 07:14:51 -0400 > From: "Margaret Donnelly" <[7][email protected]> > Subject: Re: [CoTyIre] Marriage Records > To: "'Pat H'" <[8][email protected]>, > <[9][email protected]> > Message-ID: <[email protected]> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" > Pat, > I can't speak specifically for Irish marriage certificates, but I > can speak > generally for BMD records. I have found MANY errors. > Holland instead > Holleran for a maiden name on a baptismal record is a simple one - > the > priest probably mis-heard or went from memory. On my grand aunt's > death > certificate, the given name of her father is correct, but the > surname is > completely wrong. > Happy searching! > Margaret > -----Original Message----- > From: cot[10][email protected] > [[11]mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf Of Pat > H > Sent: Tuesday, 09 July, 2013 3:42 AM > To: [12][email protected] > Subject: [CoTyIre] Marriage Records > I have received a marriage certificate for a marriage in 1883 which > I hoped > would be for my great,great uncle. However, the name of the father > of the > groom is not who I expected, in fact he has the same name as the > groom. > I first assumed that I had the wrong person but the name of a > witness and > the location of the wedding suggest this could be my relative. > There is one > mistake in the first name of a witness which has been crossed out > and a new > name written. There are also look to be a few ink blots which makes > me > wonder if whoever filled in the register was a bit careless. > I was wondering if anyone else has come across errors on marriage > certificates. I am undecided as to whether I have the right > certificate or > not but am reluctant to dismiss it due to one name being incorrect. > Cheers > Pat > ------------- > Our community web-site: [13]http://cotyroneireland.com/ > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > COT[14][email protected] with the word > 'unsubscribe' without > the > quotes in the subject and the body of the message > ------------------------------ > Message: 3 > Date: Tue, 9 Jul 2013 14:29:52 +0100 > From: <[15][email protected]> > Subject: Re: [CoTyIre] Marriage Records > To: "'Pat H'" <[16][email protected]>, > <[17][email protected]> > Message-ID: <[email protected]> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" > Pat, > Unfortunately you did not give the man's name or I could have > checked to see > if there was also a church record for him at RootsIreland. > Church records of marriage, especially Protestant ones, were very > often > recorded on exactly the same format books as Civil Records. I have > no idea > why this should be so but it is. Obviously they had no photocopiers > then, > so the two records were completed at a different time, in a > different place > and by a different person, so they often contain discrepancies. > These > discrepancies may be accounted for by people giving different info > or people > recording that info incorrectly on one occasion. > Check RootsIreland to see it there is also a church record. > And incidentally, if you use RootsIreland judiciously, you should > be able to > check the name of the fathers of the bride and the groom before you > buy the > cert, this ensuring you have the right one before shelling out your > three or > four euros. > Boyd Gray > > [18]http://familytrees.genopro.com/boydgray26/Boyd/default > .htm > [19]http://www.westulstergenealogy.com/ > [20]http://www.facebook.com/westulstergenealogy > -----Original Message----- > From: cot[21][email protected] > [[22]mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf Of Pat > H > Sent: 09 July 2013 08:42 > To: [23][email protected] > Subject: [CoTyIre] Marriage Records > I have received a marriage certificate for a marriage in 1883 which > I > hoped would be for my great,great uncle. However, the name of the > father of > the groom is not who I expected, in fact he has the same name as > the groom. > I first assumed that I had the wrong person but the name of a > witness and > the location of the wedding suggest this could be my relative. > There is one > mistake in the first name of a witness which has been crossed out > and a new > name written. There are also look to be a few ink blots which makes > me > wonder if whoever filled in the register was a bit careless. > I was wondering if anyone else has come across errors on marriage > certificates. I am undecided as to whether I have the right > certificate or > not but am reluctant to dismiss it due to one name being incorrect. > Cheers > Pat > ------------- > Our community web-site: [24]http://cotyroneireland.com/ > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > COT[25][email protected] with the word > 'unsubscribe' without > the > quotes in the subject and the body of the message > ------------------------------ > Message: 4 > Date: Wed, 10 Jul 2013 10:36:43 +1000 > From: Pat H <[26][email protected]> > Subject: [CoTyIre] Marriage Records > To: [27][email protected] > Message-ID: > > <CAO7-Kqjnr9RaKDZZoQ3=0RFbkrC2vv[28][email protected] > ail.gmail.com> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 > Thankyou Margaret and Boyd for your help. I am looking for Joseph > McMaster > (born around 1859), son of James McMaster. If he married in Tyrone, > the > 1883 marriage looks to be the most likely possibility. > I can't find a > church record for this marriage so was hoping the civil record > would > confirm if I had the right person or not. > Pat > ------------------------------ > To contact the COTYRONEIRELAND list administrator, send an email to > [email protected] > To post a message to the COTYRONEIRELAND mailing list, send an > email to > [email protected] > > __________________________________________________________ > To unsubscribe from the list, please send > an email to > COT[29][email protected] > with the word "unsubscribe" without the quotes in the subject and > the body > of the > email with no additional text. > End of COTYRONEIRELAND Digest, Vol 8, Issue 181 > *********************************************** > > References > > 1. > http://lists.rootsweb.com/index/intl/NIR/CoTyroneIreland.html > 2. http://cotyroneireland.com/ > 3. mailto:[email protected] > 4. mailto:[email protected] > 5. mailto:[email protected] > 6. mailto:[email protected] > 7. mailto:[email protected] > 8. mailto:[email protected] > 9. mailto:[email protected] > 10. mailto:[email protected] > 11. mailto:[email protected] > 12. mailto:[email protected] > 13. http://cotyroneireland.com/ > 14. mailto:[email protected] > 15. mailto:[email protected] > 16. mailto:[email protected] > 17. mailto:[email protected] > 18. > http://familytrees.genopro.com/boydgray26/Boyd/default.htm > 19. http://www.westulstergenealogy.com/ > 20. http://www.facebook.com/westulstergenealogy > 21. mailto:[email protected] > 22. mailto:[email protected] > 23. mailto:[email protected] > 24. http://cotyroneireland.com/ > 25. mailto:[email protected] > 26. mailto:[email protected] > 27. mailto:[email protected] > 28. mailto:[email protected] > 29. mailto:[email protected] > ------------- > Our community web-site: http://cotyroneireland.com/ > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' > without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message ------------- Our community web-site: http://cotyroneireland.com/ ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message ------------- Our community web-site: http://cotyroneireland.com/ ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message

Hello All. Well with so much chatter on this topic, and in such august company, it is hard for me to keep quiet. tee hee. I have at least 2 Australian Death Certificates, where at the point where it asked for Parent Names -- the Informant provided his own parents' names, and not the names of the parents of the deceased. In one case a son of the deceased did this, and in the other case a grandson or nephew did this. Luckily we had plenty of other documentation which proved who the deceased and their parents were etc, to be able to immediately pick what the Informant had done. Oh dear: so many pitfalls! At times one wonders why we persevere so perversely (tee hee) with this addictive hobby! rofl. ray in oz (p.s . And I just HAD to change the Subject line to something more meaningful than Digest. ha ha.) On 11/07/2013, at 1:15 PM, "Loretta Layman" <[email protected]> wrote: In certain periods of history when epidemics nearly wiped out some families, an early death might also result in wrong information on a death certificate. My maternal grandmother died of tuberculosis at the age of 34, having already lost both parents, all four grandparents, all her siblings except the brother away at sea, and her husband to either tuberculosis or typhoid. She left only three daughters ages 5-14, and the 14-year-old was the informant for her death certificate. Some of the information is correct, and other information is not. Loretta -----Original Message----- From: On Behalf Of Margaret Donnelly In the USA, we are also taught to rely more on earlier/earliest records. Mom or Dad reports the birth details - they were there! On death records, the informant is less likely to have first-hand knowledge, especially for someone who has had a long life. -----Original Message----- From: On Behalf Of ctrewby Here in NZ the most knowledgeable/experienced genealogists always tell us to give more weight to a marriage certificate about the parties as to get one of those you needed to be there with your spouse etc and were more likely, normally, to give your own names and details correctly. I am not delving into the times where details were incorrect deliberately or when those recording misheard or when it has been transcribed incorrectly later. Many chances for records to end up oddly. On death the notice of death is by an informant who may or may not be a family member, sometimes could be neighbour. Younger members of the family acting as informants may have not listened or misheard when mum or dad was talking of their parents and as you say wrote what they thought. No malice usually just a lack of knowledge. If you can find prior and later documentation of the names on the marriage certificates (and this you may be able to get this by tracking brothers and sisters marriages) then I would be inclined to enter the death record but to note it that they may have the names wrong. If the death informants are not family then that could explain discrepancies and I would note that. Cathy ----- Original Message Follows ----- > > I have found discrepancies as well. We were going on parents' > names from a death certificate. Finally found a copy of a marriage application > and the last name of the mother was not the same. I am positive that I > have the correct records for both. I wondered if when the death certificate > was filled out they told the name they "thought" was correct at the > time, even if inaccurate. I began to search both names to see > if I could get anywhere. Haven't yet, but will keep trying. > > Brian Adams > > [email protected] > > ------------------------------ > Message: 2 > > From: "Margaret Donnelly" <[7][email protected]> > > I can't speak specifically for Irish marriage certificates, but I > can speak generally for BMD records. I have found MANY errors. > Holland instead Holleran for a maiden name on a baptismal record is a simple one - > the priest probably mis-heard or went from memory. On my grand aunt's > death certificate, the given name of her father is correct, but the > surname is completely wrong. … > Margaret > > ------------- > From: <[15][email protected]> > > Pat, … > These discrepancies may be accounted for by people giving different info > or people recording that info incorrectly on one occasion. > Check RootsIreland to see it there is also a church record. > And incidentally, if you use RootsIreland judiciously, you should > be able to check the name of the fathers of the bride and the groom before you > buy the cert, this ensuring you have the right one before shelling out your > three or four euros. > Boyd Gray ------------------------------------------------------ > Message Date: Tue, 9 Jul 2013 > From: Pat H <[4][email protected]> > > I have received a marriage certificate for a marriage in 1883 which > I hoped would be for my great,great uncle. However, the name of the > father of the groom is not who I expected, in fact he has the same name as > the groom. > I first assumed that I had the wrong person but the name of a > witness and the location of the wedding suggest this could be my relative. > There is one mistake in the first name of a witness which has been crossed out > and a new name written. There are also look to be a few ink blots which makes > me wonder if whoever filled in the register was a bit careless. > I was wondering if anyone else has come across errors on marriage > certificates. I am undecided as to whether I have the right > certificate or not but am reluctant to dismiss it due to one name being incorrect. > Cheers > Pat