Hi, all. I am helping to organize the seminar described below. If you are in the New York - New Jersey - Connecticut area I strongly encourage you to come to the event for great lectures by the experts From the UHF and the ability to buy great research books. -Clare L. On Saturday, September 27, from 10-4, the Greenwich (CT) Main Library presents “Researching Your Irish & Scots-Irish Ancestry” featuring speakers from the Ulster Historical Foundation from Belfast, Northern Ireland, presenting information on conducting genealogical research throughout all of Ireland. The program is free to the public, but reservations are strongly advised, to facilitate space planning in the library. This event is co-sponsored by the Greenwich Library and the Friends of the Cos Cob Library. RSVP via e-mail to coscobgen@yahoo.com or call 203-622-7948 and leave your name and conatct infromation. Those who already have some information on their Irish or Scots-Irish ancestors should indicate the County, parish, and/or townland of interest (so the speakers can target their remarks to the audience's interests). Lectures: Introduction to Irish family history research Researching the family community using landed estate papers Using Griffith’s Valuation to find your ancestral home in Ireland The three Cs: civil, church and census records Not always at the bottom of the pile: some lesser-known Irish sources (incl. school and O ld Age Pension records) Speakers: Dr. William Roulston, Research Director of the Ulster Historical Foundation, specializing in genealogical research and heritage consultancy. He is the author of Researching Scots-Irish Ancestors (Belfast, 2005) and (with Eileen Murphy) Fermanagh: History and Society (Dublin, 2004). Dr. Brian Trainor, former Research Director of the Ulster Historical Foundation and former Director of the Public Records Office of Northern Ireland. The Ulster Historical Foundation (http://www.ancestryireland.com), a non-profit organization, is the premier Irish research agency and an established publisher of historical and genealogical books. For a list of their titles, some of which will be available for purchase at the library, see http://www.booksireland.org.uk/. The UHF also has an affiliated membership society, the Ulster Genealogical & Historical Guild, which gives guild members two annual publications, discounts on the UHF's pay-per-view online databases, and free access to many members-only online databases. Location: Greenwich Library, 101 West Putnam Avenue, Greenwich, CT 06830 (1 mile from Exit 3 of I-95/Conn. Turnpike, minutes by cab from the Stamford Amtrak station). The library will be open from 9-5, and the program is scheduled to run from 10-4. The Library Cafe is on the lower level of the Main (Greenwich) Library. For more information on the library, see http://www.greenwichlibrary.org/. Drivin g Directions: http://www.greenwichlibrary.org/abouthours.asp#DIRECTIONS_TO_THE_MAIN_LIBRARY: Public Transportation: Metro-North: Taxi stand adjacent to Track 3, or or take Port Chester-bound Bus 11A outside main station entrance. CT Transit: Route 11A (Port Chester – Greenwich – Stamford) (West Putnam Ave./Field Point Rd. stop – Adults $1.25 Seniors 60¢ http://www.cttransit.com/Uploads_Schedules/stam_11_satsched.pdf I-Bus White Plains, NY to Stamford, CT stops at the Greenwich train station. Connect to CT Transit Bus 11A http://ibusexpress.com/

You are correct that it was common to give a child his mothers last name as a first name. My grandfather, the third child, was named Johnston Nethery and a cousin was named Gibson Nethery. John Nethery In a message dated 9/17/2008 3:43:48 A.M. Eastern Daylight Time, cotyroneireland-request@rootsweb.com writes: You are receiving this email because you subscribed to the CoTyroneIreland-D mailing list. If you no longer wish to receive these messages, please follow the instructions on http://lists.rootsweb.com/index/intl/NIR/CoTyroneIreland.html Today's Topics: 1. Re: naming practices (Trudy L Barbisan) 2. Naming Practices (Alice) ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Message: 1 Date: Tue, 16 Sep 2008 11:07:41 -0700 From: "Trudy L Barbisan" <barbisantl@qwest.net> Subject: Re: [CoTyIre] naming practices To: <CoTyroneIreland@rootsweb.com> Message-ID: <F1B56B30D0074CB089C9A3739B1F868E@OfficeTrudy> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Hello Rob! Yes, I did see the email from Kathryn about the Kyle family and successful DNA testing. I tried to get my brother to do this (has to be a male descendant) but he declined. My son could do it but I don't know if that is too far removed or not. The Joseph Kyle mentioned in the email could have been related, and certainly predates any family in Ireland that I know about, but my direct line of Joseph Kyle's all stayed in Ireland until my grandfather Joseph who came to Philadelphia in 1905. Thanks, Trudy Kyle Barbisan _____ From: Rob [mailto:robertdoragh@hotmail.com] Sent: Tuesday, September 16, 2008 8:59 AM To: Trudy L Barbisan Subject: RE: [CoTyIre] naming practices Hello again Trudy, Did you notice this email from a couple of weeks ago? http://archiver.rootsweb.ancestry.com/th/read/cotyroneireland/2008-09/122091 0657 Rob Doragh Liverpool UK barbisantl@qwest.net Date: Sun, 14 Sep 2008 Subject: naming practices I hope that I am using the correct address, I have not been in touch in a while. So far I have been able to determine that my grandfather, b Bancran 1881 was Joseph Kyle, and his father was Joseph Kyle b 1846 Bancran and HIS father was Joseph Kyle b abt 1818 also in Bancran as far as we know. That was the location of the family farm. With all of these Josephs it is hard to determine any sibling's names or find clues to them and I am hoping that someone can help. Trudy Kyle Barbisan Portland, Oregon _____ Get Hotmail on your mobile from Vodafone Try it <http://clk.atdmt.com/UKM/go/111354028/direct/01/> Now ------------------------------ Message: 2 Date: Tue, 16 Sep 2008 13:02:39 -0600 From: Alice <603_1107@telus.net> Subject: [CoTyIre] Naming Practices To: COTYRONEIRELAND@rootsweb.com Message-ID: <48D002CF.6030605@telus.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed I don't know how common this has been but my Dad, born in Canada (1894) of Scottish and Irish parentage, was given the surnames of both his grandmothers, ie, Stewart Mathews (Cochrane). Hurray for our female ancestors! Alice Cochrane ------------------------------ To contact the COTYRONEIRELAND list administrator, send an email to COTYRONEIRELAND-admin@rootsweb.com. To post a message to the COTYRONEIRELAND mailing list, send an email to COTYRONEIRELAND@rootsweb.com. __________________________________________________________ To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to COTYRONEIRELAND-request@rootsweb.com with the word "unsubscribe" without the quotes in the subject and the body of the email with no additional text. End of COTYRONEIRELAND Digest, Vol 3, Issue 186 *********************************************** **************Psssst...Have you heard the news? There's a new fashion blog, plus the latest fall trends and hair styles at StyleList.com. (http://www.stylelist.com/trends?ncid=aolsty00050000000014)

I don't know how common this has been but my Dad, born in Canada (1894) of Scottish and Irish parentage, was given the surnames of both his grandmothers, ie, Stewart Mathews (Cochrane). Hurray for our female ancestors! Alice Cochrane

Hello Rob! Yes, I did see the email from Kathryn about the Kyle family and successful DNA testing. I tried to get my brother to do this (has to be a male descendant) but he declined. My son could do it but I don't know if that is too far removed or not. The Joseph Kyle mentioned in the email could have been related, and certainly predates any family in Ireland that I know about, but my direct line of Joseph Kyle's all stayed in Ireland until my grandfather Joseph who came to Philadelphia in 1905. Thanks, Trudy Kyle Barbisan _____ From: Rob [mailto:robertdoragh@hotmail.com] Sent: Tuesday, September 16, 2008 8:59 AM To: Trudy L Barbisan Subject: RE: [CoTyIre] naming practices Hello again Trudy, Did you notice this email from a couple of weeks ago? http://archiver.rootsweb.ancestry.com/th/read/cotyroneireland/2008-09/122091 0657 Rob Doragh Liverpool UK barbisantl@qwest.net Date: Sun, 14 Sep 2008 Subject: naming practices I hope that I am using the correct address, I have not been in touch in a while. So far I have been able to determine that my grandfather, b Bancran 1881 was Joseph Kyle, and his father was Joseph Kyle b 1846 Bancran and HIS father was Joseph Kyle b abt 1818 also in Bancran as far as we know. That was the location of the family farm. With all of these Josephs it is hard to determine any sibling's names or find clues to them and I am hoping that someone can help. Trudy Kyle Barbisan Portland, Oregon _____ Get Hotmail on your mobile from Vodafone Try it <http://clk.atdmt.com/UKM/go/111354028/direct/01/> Now

My understanding is that there is no rule in such cases and different parents used different alternatives. After all, the custom you describe was only custom and not anything legally binding. In any event, there is the case of one William de Viteri Ponte, who shared his first name with both his father and his father-in-law, and therefore named three sons William (or Willelmus in the old language) - Willelmus primogenitus, Willelmus medius, and Willelmus junior (William the first, William the middle, and William the younger). Other parents simply named one son for both father and grandfather (or both grandfathers in some instances), and then named the third son after another relative or after no one at all. I would say I hope this helps, but there are simply too many possibilities. Again, the custom was not a requirement and some families didn't follow it at all. Loretta -----Original Message----- From: cotyroneireland-bounces@rootsweb.com [mailto:cotyroneireland-bounces@rootsweb.com] On Behalf Of Trudy L Barbisan Sent: Monday, September 15, 2008 21:36 To: CoTyroneIreland@rootsweb.com Subject: Re: [CoTyIre] naming practices The problem is that rarely does my family have middle names, so it makes it more difficult to trace the Joseph Kyle name. I appreciate the information received, but my initial question has not been answered: If the father's name is the same as the grandfather's name (father's father) is there an alternate plan under the naming practice for naming the 3rd son (who would normally be named after the father). You wouldn't have two children with the same first and no middle name unless one died. And what if the father, his father and the mother's father were all named Joseph (no middle name)...was there an alternative plan for the naming practice then? Would the parents pick up with the oldest brother's names who would normally be 4th and 5th in line? Does anyone know for sure...for instance did this happen in your family? -----Original Message----- From: cotyroneireland-bounces@rootsweb.com [mailto:cotyroneireland-bounces@rootsweb.com] On Behalf Of Loretta Sent: Monday, September 15, 2008 3:43 PM To: Soopy46@aol.com; CoTyroneIreland@rootsweb.com Subject: Re: [CoTyIre] naming practices Using a mother's or grandmother's maiden name for a child's middle name is not at all unusual in Scotland or the U.S. I've seen it many times in both places. Unfortunately, my Lynns only lived in Ireland a century and a half, and I haven't much genealogical experience there. -----Original Message----- From: cotyroneireland-bounces@rootsweb.com [mailto:cotyroneireland-bounces@rootsweb.com] On Behalf Of Soopy46@aol.com Sent: Monday, September 15, 2008 16:17 To: CoTyroneIreland@rootsweb.com Subject: Re: [CoTyIre] naming practices ... Something else I meant to point out. It could "just" be my lines ... But in my search one of William's sisters "Isabella Armstrong" had married a William Wright....yes "Wright". Further search found they had a Daughter ... you guessed it...Jessie Wright! ... ------------- Our community web-site: http://freepages.genealogy.rootsweb.com/~cotyroneireland ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to COTYRONEIRELAND-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message ------------- Our community web-site: http://freepages.genealogy.rootsweb.com/~cotyroneireland ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to COTYRONEIRELAND-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message

It

Loretta, thanks. In a way you did answer my question, and I appreciate it. In other words, there is no rule of thumb for naming of the 3rd son if the name is the same as the Grandfather's name. No one has record of experiencing this. I just thought perhaps someone had experienced this situation in their own family and had a hint of what to look for. I wasn't looking for anything legally binding, and have no illusions that I will magically find an answer. I was just trying to determine if there was a rule of thumb for this type of instance. When you only find brick walls, even a little scrap could help. Thanks to all who tried, I appreciate it... Trudy Kyle Barbisan Portland, Oregon -----Original Message----- From: Loretta [mailto:lynneage@house-of-lynn.com] Sent: Monday, September 15, 2008 6:54 PM To: 'Trudy L Barbisan'; CoTyroneIreland@rootsweb.com Subject: RE: [CoTyIre] naming practices My understanding is that there is no rule in such cases and different parents used different alternatives. After all, the custom you describe was only custom and not anything legally binding. In any event, there is the case of one William de Viteri Ponte, who shared his first name with both his father and his father-in-law, and therefore named three sons William (or Willelmus in the old language) - Willelmus primogenitus, Willelmus medius, and Willelmus junior (William the first, William the middle, and William the younger). Other parents simply named one son for both father and grandfather (or both grandfathers in some instances), and then named the third son after another relative or after no one at all. I would say I hope this helps, but there are simply too many possibilities. Again, the custom was not a requirement and some families didn't follow it at all. Loretta -----Original Message----- From: cotyroneireland-bounces@rootsweb.com [mailto:cotyroneireland-bounces@rootsweb.com] On Behalf Of Trudy L Barbisan Sent: Monday, September 15, 2008 21:36 To: CoTyroneIreland@rootsweb.com Subject: Re: [CoTyIre] naming practices The problem is that rarely does my family have middle names, so it makes it more difficult to trace the Joseph Kyle name. I appreciate the information received, but my initial question has not been answered: If the father's name is the same as the grandfather's name (father's father) is there an alternate plan under the naming practice for naming the 3rd son (who would normally be named after the father). You wouldn't have two children with the same first and no middle name unless one died. And what if the father, his father and the mother's father were all named Joseph (no middle name)...was there an alternative plan for the naming practice then? Would the parents pick up with the oldest brother's names who would normally be 4th and 5th in line? Does anyone know for sure...for instance did this happen in your family? -----Original Message----- From: cotyroneireland-bounces@rootsweb.com [mailto:cotyroneireland-bounces@rootsweb.com] On Behalf Of Loretta Sent: Monday, September 15, 2008 3:43 PM To: Soopy46@aol.com; CoTyroneIreland@rootsweb.com Subject: Re: [CoTyIre] naming practices Using a mother's or grandmother's maiden name for a child's middle name is not at all unusual in Scotland or the U.S. I've seen it many times in both places. Unfortunately, my Lynns only lived in Ireland a century and a half, and I haven't much genealogical experience there. -----Original Message----- From: cotyroneireland-bounces@rootsweb.com [mailto:cotyroneireland-bounces@rootsweb.com] On Behalf Of Soopy46@aol.com Sent: Monday, September 15, 2008 16:17 To: CoTyroneIreland@rootsweb.com Subject: Re: [CoTyIre] naming practices ... Something else I meant to point out. It could "just" be my lines ... But in my search one of William's sisters "Isabella Armstrong" had married a William Wright....yes "Wright". Further search found they had a Daughter ... you guessed it...Jessie Wright! ... ------------- Our community web-site: http://freepages.genealogy.rootsweb.com/~cotyroneireland ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to COTYRONEIRELAND-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message ------------- Our community web-site: http://freepages.genealogy.rootsweb.com/~cotyroneireland ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to COTYRONEIRELAND-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message

Using a mother's or grandmother's maiden name for a child's middle name is not at all unusual in Scotland or the U.S. I've seen it many times in both places. Unfortunately, my Lynns only lived in Ireland a century and a half, and I haven't much genealogical experience there. -----Original Message----- From: cotyroneireland-bounces@rootsweb.com [mailto:cotyroneireland-bounces@rootsweb.com] On Behalf Of Soopy46@aol.com Sent: Monday, September 15, 2008 16:17 To: CoTyroneIreland@rootsweb.com Subject: Re: [CoTyIre] naming practices ... Something else I meant to point out. It could "just" be my lines ... But in my search one of William's sisters "Isabella Armstrong" had married a William Wright....yes "Wright". Further search found they had a Daughter ... you guessed it...Jessie Wright! ...

The problem is that rarely does my family have middle names, so it makes it more difficult to trace the Joseph Kyle name. I appreciate the information received, but my initial question has not been answered: If the father's name is the same as the grandfather's name (father's father) is there an alternate plan under the naming practice for naming the 3rd son (who would normally be named after the father). You wouldn't have two children with the same first and no middle name unless one died. And what if the father, his father and the mother's father were all named Joseph (no middle name)...was there an alternative plan for the naming practice then? Would the parents pick up with the oldest brother's names who would normally be 4th and 5th in line? Does anyone know for sure...for instance did this happen in your family? -----Original Message----- From: cotyroneireland-bounces@rootsweb.com [mailto:cotyroneireland-bounces@rootsweb.com] On Behalf Of Loretta Sent: Monday, September 15, 2008 3:43 PM To: Soopy46@aol.com; CoTyroneIreland@rootsweb.com Subject: Re: [CoTyIre] naming practices Using a mother's or grandmother's maiden name for a child's middle name is not at all unusual in Scotland or the U.S. I've seen it many times in both places. Unfortunately, my Lynns only lived in Ireland a century and a half, and I haven't much genealogical experience there. -----Original Message----- From: cotyroneireland-bounces@rootsweb.com [mailto:cotyroneireland-bounces@rootsweb.com] On Behalf Of Soopy46@aol.com Sent: Monday, September 15, 2008 16:17 To: CoTyroneIreland@rootsweb.com Subject: Re: [CoTyIre] naming practices ... Something else I meant to point out. It could "just" be my lines ... But in my search one of William's sisters "Isabella Armstrong" had married a William Wright....yes "Wright". Further search found they had a Daughter ... you guessed it...Jessie Wright! ... ------------- Our community web-site: http://freepages.genealogy.rootsweb.com/~cotyroneireland ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to COTYRONEIRELAND-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message

Hi Something else I meant to point out. It could "just" be my lines.....In my searching my gg grandfather Montgomery Armstrong , who lived in Tyrone Co....had a daughter Jessie Wright Armstrong. For the life of me I could not figure out where the name came from. Then.....through the "luck" of my searching I found Montgomery's grandparents in Scotland. ( Montgomery's father was William Armstrong b 1764 in Scotland). In my search I also found Montgomery's Aunts and Uncles...(William's brothers and sisters). YES I was overwhelmed lol. But in my search one of William's sisters "Isabella Armstrong" had married a William Wright....yes "Wright". Further search found they had a daughter......you guessed it...Jessie Wright! So in my search I learned Montgomery Armstrong had named his daughter after his cousin, or at least THAT is what I am assuming. I will never know the reasons ,.but I thought it was important to mention....that you NEVER know, and somewhere down the road you just may hit upon a clue. Whatever the reason...I believe names do tell a story all their own. Hopefully they help you, but don't give up hope. As I said...I treat EVERYTHING as a "clue". You never know. As the saying goes..."if I only knew then".....might've saved me some searching time lol. Again...Good Luck! Sue in NY PS...As far as middle names? My lines carried them even up to today. Copeland is MY middle name as it is my son's and some of my nieces and/or nephews. You never know! lol **************Psssst...Have you heard the news? There's a new fashion blog, plus the latest fall trends and hair styles at StyleList.com. (http://www.stylelist.com/trends?ncid=aolsty00050000000014)

on the naming - patterns are prevalent but there were many children in these families- in my husband's family- although in Scotland- after the first son and second son- at least middle names can be neighbors helping the family, especially at the time of birth or doctor's names have been used., as well as friends of the father. so they are not always family connections. best of luck in your searching. Pam Munro ----- Original Message ----- From: <Soopy46@aol.com> To: <CoTyroneIreland@rootsweb.com> Sent: Monday, September 15, 2008 2:54 PM Subject: Re: [CoTyIre] naming practices > > Hi > > As I see you stated some have emailed you saying the "naming pattern" > wasn't > always reliable. I think....the naming pattern is an "idea" or clue to go > by > BUT every family was different. In answer to your question....in my > opinion...YES it just might be possible! Anything is possible. > Unfortunately as far > as naming I don't believe there were any "definites". > > My ancestors used "middle" names a lot which have been great clues. > But....here is an instance. I don't know if you are familiar with the > "Trimbles" who > owned the newspaper "The Impartial Reporter"....in my searching I came > across > a William Copeland Trimble. Much to my surprise Copeland IS a name I am > searching and it was slightly unusual in N Ireland back then...so I got > all > excited thinking I had found a "possible" connection. Well...turned out > (through > researching) this William was the 2nd son of Trimble who owned the > newspaper. > He gave him the middle name Copeland because my gg grandfather Hugh > Copeland > of Enniskillen lent the father money to save the newspaper and keep the > father > out of debtors prison. I know it was a middle name...BUT my point is...we > may never know the reasons behind "a name". I was just lucky to find what > I > did. > > Im sorry I don't have a direct answer for you but "in my opinion" I think > it was possible..THOUGH..sometimes I believe there were "other" names or > nicknames, or areas where they lived also added onto names during those > times, of > which we most likely will never find records of, so that THEY could tell > who > was who. In books I have read about then, many are associated with the > area > they lived or "son of" in print. > > Good luck...I know I prob didn't answer you but I tried! lol Maybe > someone > more experienced will. > > Sue in NY > > > > > > **************Psssst...Have you heard the news? There's a new fashion > blog, > plus the latest fall trends and hair styles at StyleList.com. > (http://www.stylelist.com/trends?ncid=aolsty00050000000014) > > ------------- > Our community web-site: > http://freepages.genealogy.rootsweb.com/~cotyroneireland > > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > COTYRONEIRELAND-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without > the quotes in the subject and the body of the message

Hi As I see you stated some have emailed you saying the "naming pattern" wasn't always reliable. I think....the naming pattern is an "idea" or clue to go by BUT every family was different. In answer to your question....in my opinion...YES it just might be possible! Anything is possible. Unfortunately as far as naming I don't believe there were any "definites". My ancestors used "middle" names a lot which have been great clues. But....here is an instance. I don't know if you are familiar with the "Trimbles" who owned the newspaper "The Impartial Reporter"....in my searching I came across a William Copeland Trimble. Much to my surprise Copeland IS a name I am searching and it was slightly unusual in N Ireland back then...so I got all excited thinking I had found a "possible" connection. Well...turned out (through researching) this William was the 2nd son of Trimble who owned the newspaper. He gave him the middle name Copeland because my gg grandfather Hugh Copeland of Enniskillen lent the father money to save the newspaper and keep the father out of debtors prison. I know it was a middle name...BUT my point is...we may never know the reasons behind "a name". I was just lucky to find what I did. Im sorry I don't have a direct answer for you but "in my opinion" I think it was possible..THOUGH..sometimes I believe there were "other" names or nicknames, or areas where they lived also added onto names during those times, of which we most likely will never find records of, so that THEY could tell who was who. In books I have read about then, many are associated with the area they lived or "son of" in print. Good luck...I know I prob didn't answer you but I tried! lol Maybe someone more experienced will. Sue in NY **************Psssst...Have you heard the news? There's a new fashion blog, plus the latest fall trends and hair styles at StyleList.com. (http://www.stylelist.com/trends?ncid=aolsty00050000000014)

Yes, I understand that, what I am trying to determine is what happens to the third son when the father and grandfather both have the same name. According to the naming practice he would be named after the father. Does anyone have experience with this? Would families skip to naming the 3rd son after the father's oldest brother (according to pattern given to the 4th son) or would that name "slot" be filled with another family member/friend/benefactor. Thank you all for your responses, and I understand that the naming practice is not foolproof. The problem is that if I knew the answer to the above, then it might give me a little help because I don't have any information on siblings for my Great or great-great grandfather Josephs. I believe my great-grandfather had a brother William Thomas and perhaps David and a sister Isabella. But nothing concrete. _____ From: BushesandBugs@aol.com [mailto:BushesandBugs@aol.com] Sent: Monday, September 15, 2008 9:44 AM To: barbisantl@qwest.net Subject: Re: [CoTyIre] naming practices In a message dated 9/15/2008 2:34:47 A.M. Eastern Daylight Time, barbisantl@qwest.net writes: What happens when the father and the father's father (and those before them) all have the same name? in my case the first boy was named after the grandfather Thomas Vincent Campbell, as were all first born sons back as far as my records go, 1840 . mike _____ Psssst...Have you heard the news? There's a new <http://www.stylelist.com/trends?ncid=aolsty00050000000014> fashion blog, plus the latest fall trends and hair styles at StyleList.com.

I hope that I am using the correct address, I have not been in touch in a while. I have a question about naming practices in Ireland, in particular about the boy children. My grandfather came from a long line of Joseph Kyle's. None have middle names or initials that I can find. I know that the first boy child is named after the father's father, then the second after the mother's father, and the third after the father himself. What happens when the father and the father's father (and those before them) all have the same name? Do they generally go to naming the 3rd son after the father's oldest brother, or does the father pick a family name.favorite or prominent member of the family.to replace his own name? Would the same apply to the female line if the mother and her mother have the same name? So far I have been able to determine that my grandfather, born in Bancran Co. Tyrone in 1881 was Joseph Kyle, and his father was Joseph Kyle born in 1846 in Bancran and HIS father was Joseph Kyle born about 1818 also in Bancran as far as we know. That was the location of the family farm. With all of these Josephs it is hard to determine any sibling's names or find clues to them and I am hoping that someone can help. Thanks, Trudy Kyle Barbisan Portland, Oregon * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * I support the Bubel/Aiken Foundation...learn more by visiting www.bubelaiken.org Clay Aiken, UNICEF Ambassador, field notes: http://fieldnotes.unicefusa.org/2008/07/somalia_keep_spreading_the_wor.html Clay's new album "On My Way Here" in stores now.

Hi James, Yes, Tyrone folks would have gone to Fall River (MA). Providence (RI) is another hot Tyrone relocation locale. All mine, though, settled in Philadelphia (PA), and plenty came in (and probably settled in) NYC. So, really, you can find Tyrone folks just about anywhere... Sorry, I know you were hoping for a "most Tyrone folk went to...". Do you know where cousins or siblings went? That might be a better indicator than just trying to find Co. Tyrone emigration paths. You might have better luck tracing water and RR routes from Fall River to WV -- maybe you'll find they paused along the way somewhere for a year or two and left a record for you to find. Hope that helps somewhat. Claire K seekay@comcast.net On Sep 11, 2008, at 7:16 PM, James P. Murphy wrote: > In c. 1873 my grandfather's Co. Tyrone family moved to Fall River, > Mass., > where he was born in 1875. I cannot find them there in the 1880 or > 1900 > census. Nor can I find a Fall River birth record. I know that he > "went West" > and before age 30 was drilling oil wells in W.Va. I have to assume the > family left Fall River (largely cotton mill employment) shortly > after their > arrival. Question: Which cities in, say, Upstate New York, > Connecticut, New > Jersey, Maryland and/or Pennsylvania attracted families from Co. > Tyrone? My > grandfather was R.C. but he quickly became active in Elks and > Masonic lodges > and married a W.Va. Scots Irish girl. Is Fall River even plausible > as a > destination for Irish from Co. Tyrone? Reasoned leads as well as pure > speculation will be appreciated. > > > > James P. Murphy > > Princeton, NJ - USA >

James, Have you tried contacting either the national or states' headquarters of the BPOE and Masons for information? Jon Raymond St Paul Park, MN http://freepages.genealogy.rootsweb.com/~raymond/ **************Psssst...Have you heard the news? There's a new fashion blog, plus the latest fall trends and hair styles at StyleList.com. (http://www.stylelist.com/trends?ncid=aolsty00050000000014)

This is a great feature to have on the site. It has answered a number of questions that I had. Congratulations to whoever managed to arrange it. Jim. ----- Original Message ----- From: "Margaret Barnes" <barnesdm@bigpond.net.au> To: "Co Tyrone Mailing List" <cotyroneireland-l@rootsweb.com> Sent: Monday, September 08, 2008 8:09 AM Subject: [CoTyIre] explanation of Griffiths Valuation > This link appeared on the Fermanagh Gold Mailing List last week. It is > a terrific explanation of Griffiths, and well worth reading and saving. > > > http://www.leitrim-roscommon.com/GRIFFITH/more_to_griffiths.html > > Margaret > > > ------------- > Our community web-site: > http://freepages.genealogy.rootsweb.com/~cotyroneireland > > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > COTYRONEIRELAND-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without > the quotes in the subject and the body of the message

Yes James, there were many that came to Fall River from Tyrone, including my Malone family..... What is your grandfather's name? Paula In a message dated 9/11/2008 7:18:53 P.M. Eastern Daylight Time, jpmurphy@jpmurphy.com writes: In c. 1873 my grandfather's Co. Tyrone family moved to Fall River, Mass., where he was born in 1875. I cannot find them there in the 1880 or 1900 census. Nor can I find a Fall River birth record. I know that he "went West" and before age 30 was drilling oil wells in W.Va. I have to assume the family left Fall River (largely cotton mill employment) shortly after their arrival. Question: Which cities in, say, Upstate New York, Connecticut, New Jersey, Maryland and/or Pennsylvania attracted families from Co. Tyrone? My grandfather was R.C. but he quickly became active in Elks and Masonic lodges and married a W.Va. Scots Irish girl. Is Fall River even plausible as a destination for Irish from Co. Tyrone? Reasoned leads as well as pure speculation will be appreciated. James P. Murphy Princeton, NJ - USA <mailto:jpmurphy@jpmurphy.com> jpmurphy@jpmurphy.com ------------- Our community web-site: http://freepages.genealogy.rootsweb.com/~cotyroneireland ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to COTYRONEIRELAND-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message **************Psssst...Have you heard the news? There's a new fashion blog, plus the latest fall trends and hair styles at StyleList.com. (http://www.stylelist.com/trends?ncid=aolsty00050000000014)

In c. 1873 my grandfather's Co. Tyrone family moved to Fall River, Mass., where he was born in 1875. I cannot find them there in the 1880 or 1900 census. Nor can I find a Fall River birth record. I know that he "went West" and before age 30 was drilling oil wells in W.Va. I have to assume the family left Fall River (largely cotton mill employment) shortly after their arrival. Question: Which cities in, say, Upstate New York, Connecticut, New Jersey, Maryland and/or Pennsylvania attracted families from Co. Tyrone? My grandfather was R.C. but he quickly became active in Elks and Masonic lodges and married a W.Va. Scots Irish girl. Is Fall River even plausible as a destination for Irish from Co. Tyrone? Reasoned leads as well as pure speculation will be appreciated. James P. Murphy Princeton, NJ - USA <mailto:jpmurphy@jpmurphy.com> jpmurphy@jpmurphy.com

It is my pleasure to announce that the complete 1864 Ireland Birth Index is now online at the Ireland GenWeb website at: http://www.irelandgenweb.com/ We had much help with this project which enabled us to complete it in a record four months. Here are the good people who took time out of their busy lives to help others by transcribing pages: Rosemary Cairns, Bill Roberge, Jan MacMillan, Joy Burgos, Bob McConihe, Ronnie Lorentz, Ellen Ahrens, Eileen Redman, Diane Culhane, Kathy Snowberger, Jim Cox, Jim Buckley, Patricia McGill, Colleen McNamara, Rita Meistrel, Bill King, Margaret Minoughan, Eileen Sullivan, James Sullivan, MaryPat Carey, Candi Zizek, Maggie Lambert, Mary Devlin, Kelly Anne Binari, Judie Mason, Mary Mizzi, Dan Doherty, Nora Fitzgerald and David Collins. The volunteers came from all over the world, many from Australia and Canada, some from England, one from Croatia and many fro the USA. It was great talking to all of you. Other new updates on the site include the Surname Registries and DataBank plus new Special Projects. Wanted: We need coordinators for the following counties: Carlow, Longford, Laois, Meath, Westmeath and Waterford. If you have knowledge of how to make webpages plus an interest in the county, contact me off list. -- Pat Connors, Sacramento CA http://www.connorsgenealogy.com