Hello Folks Joining the throng of "foreigners"of Irish origin on the List, I live in South Africa. We have here, at the bottom end of Africa, a fine selection of Murphys, O'Reillys, Duffys, O'Callahans, McBrides, Earlys, et al. During the Anglo-Boer War (1899 - 1902) many Irishmen fought for the Boers against the British. The Boer forces considered their Irish Regiment to be highly effective. But, I digress. I'm hoping to find background on my g-grandfather, Francis EARLY, b. 1826 or 27 in Lisburn. I know Lisburn isn't in Tyrone, but it's not far away. Can't find a trace of the family in Antrim or Down. Griffiths Valuations lists a lot of EARLYs in Tyrone, so.... Francis EARLY was enlisted in the British Army (54th Regiment of Foot) at the age of 7 or 8. He was shipped off to India with the Regiment and raised in a Regimental boarding school. His Army record does not name his parents. During his time in the 54th, he was stationed in India, Malta, West Indies, Canada. While based in Quebec City in 1853, he met and married Lillian KING, a 16 year old Irish girl (no parents or birthplace named) Then to Gibraltar, to Essex in England, and finally to Lanarkshire, Scotland, where most of the couple's children were born. From Scotland 6 EARLY brothers migrated to South Africa. Ring any bells? Best wishes Frank Early South Africa

Janet, your comment below seems to indicate surprise that this list has many members outside of Britain. I do not belong to any English lists to know what the situation is there, but I do belong to several Ulster lists, and in each case they have a diversity of members who seem to cover many of the locations which are or were part of the British Commonwealth of Nations, plus the Americans. In each of those countries, there was a large immigration of people from Britain; and most especially from Ireland where impoverishment and persecution seem to have been amongst the strongest drivers for many of them to emigrate. Within the field of Irish studies, akin to the Jewish spread of population, one hears speak of "the Irish diaspora" -- the spread of the Irish around the world. (I personally find those in Spain and South America to be the most unexpected). As a result, many of us who are descendants of some of those in the Irish diaspora, are now seeking out our roots in the old country. My own personal experiences of visiting in Ireland over 30 years ago, was that "locals" are generally not overly interested in researching their family histories, being content with whatever stories they hear within the family throughout their lives -- but there are wonderful exceptions to this generalisation, as we find on each of these Irish lists: wonderful, knowledgeabe, helpful, and loving, locals. By contrast, over say the past 35 to 40 years, there has been an ever burgeoning interest throughout those diaspora areas, in tracing our own roots within our own countries, and then trying to make the big jump back "home" to Ireland, etc. And as you may well be a part of, there is that huge number of Irish who have for a very long time gone to Britain herself, most notably to the massive industrial cities of the north, and to Scotland; some of whose descendants are also avid members of these lists -- although I must admit that the noisiest ones on the lists do seem to be predominantly from the USA, Canada, Australia. (ha ha -- putting myself in here!) Welcome to the list if you are a newcomer; and I hope that you will soon see that some of the noisiest "foreigners" are amongst the most knowledgeable, helpful, and sharing, of people also. Regards: Ray in Oz. ----- Original Message ----- From: "Janet" <wightway@clara.co.uk> ... > Janet. > PS Seems the membership of this List is outside Britain?

You're right, Ray. I just hit reply and the address line showed only your email address. So, when I hit "reply to all" I got both your address and the list address. While I'm at it...my McClelland family is from Congo, County Tyrone. Does anyone know how far away Congo, County Fermanagh is? I was surprised to find that there are 2 Congos in Northern Ireland. Another question...my Alexander McClelland came to the US (Manhattan) in 1847 at the age of 16 or 17. He traveled alone. I have been unable to find him on any ship's list. I've used the various spellings including Clelland on the various programs (ie. ancestry.com). No luck. Any suggestions? Thanks for any help! Alice Albuquerque, NM -----Original Message----- From: Ray <ray15@optusnet.com.au> To: COTYRONEIRELAND@rootsweb.com Sent: Mon, 24 Nov 2008 6:25 am Subject: [CoTyIre] Reply facility to this list Hello again all. Sorry if it seems that I am hogging the list at the moment. The reason for this note, is that on each occasion in the past day or two when I have intended to REPLY to the LIST, about a posting, regardless of whether I tried "Reply" or "Reply to All" -- my reply was only addressed to the original poster and not to the list. I have noticed that this Tyrone list has become fairly moribund of late, and now I wonder if this lack of a direct Reply to the list itself might be part of the reason for that; as I expect (and hope. ha ha) that I am not the only dumb one around here; and that others might have thought that they were replying to the list, only to never see their reply posted on it. It seems to me that we used to have a lot of friendly interactions and helpfulness on the list, much of which seems to have evaporated in recent times. I had put that down to just being the nature of some lists, but now I wonder if this Reply issue might be more relevant to it. All of this is in complete contrast to the Fermanagh-Gold list, which I know from postings that some of you are also subscribed to, which is one of the most dynamic lists which I belong to; with that dynamism seeming to me to be attributable to a few people. First, they have a list administrator who interprets his brief VERY WIDELY, so that almost any topic is deemed relevant to the list -- with all other counties within Ireland not being a limiting factor. (And Claire this comment is NOT intended as any sort of slight to you, as I have no complaint at all -- rather I am just trying to be comprehensive in what I am writing. Secondly, because we have at least one very generous LOCAL who shares all of her knowledge with us; plus other local experts who chime in from time to time. And thirdly, with some very "noisy" foreigners who keep the questions and helpful thoughts pouring in. The result is a list which sometimes overwhelms with the number of its messages -- especially if! one does not read them every day; but which also operates as a world-wide family, seeming to enfold each other in caring arms. I'd be interested in the thoughts of others on some of these things; but Claire if you do not want this sort of discussion to occur on-list, please let us know. Regards to all. Ray in Oz. ------------- Our community web-site: http://freepages.genealogy.rootsweb.com/~cotyroneireland ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to COTYRONEIRELAND-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message

Hello, Long time lurker, first time poster. My gggrandmother's cemetery record shows her as born 15AUG 1828, "Ballinsloe", CountyTyrone, Ireland. Her name was Elizabeth (Eliza) Gregory. (She may have been born in 1828) She came to Galena, Illinois, USA in 1843, to join a brother and sister already here - Ellen and James. Later census records show an Ann and a Hannah Gregory in Ellen's household, but do not give a relationship. Eliza was Roman Catholic, and was most likely illiterate. The place names would probably have been supplied by her daughter(s), and would likely have been a phonetic spelling representation of what they may have heard. My first question to the List is - Is anyone aware of a place that would sound like Ballinsole but perhaps have a different spelling? Thank You for your help, Janet _________________________________________________________________ Windows Live Hotmail now works up to 70% faster. http://windowslive.com/Explore/Hotmail?ocid=TXT_TAGLM_WL_hotmail_acq_faster_112008

Listers, I'm researching the Donaldson family from townland of Dernaborey, Parish of Carnteel, Aughnacloy. My next Donaldson family is from the townland of Loughans, Parish of Carnteel, Aughnacloy. Is there anyone out there researching these two families? Regards, Colin McCallum.

I'm setting out the names of the folk I believe were born in Ireland in the absence of any one referring me elsewhere. Edward CHESTERS b abt 1780 m Mary DUNCAN b abt 1780 Ireland Child of the marriage: Edward CHESTER b abt 1811 m Elizabeth PARK b 1822 d 1880 whose parents were Hugh PARK b 28.6.1799 and Elizabeth SEMPLE c 1795 Children of Edward & Elizabeth. Mary CHESTER b abt 1841 Ireland Edward CHESTER b 14.3.1836 m Elizabeth MURDOCH b 1840/41 David CHESTER b abt 1844 Agnes CHESTER b abt 1846 Elizabeth CHESTER b abt 1850 m 25.3.1873. Matthew CAMPBELL b abt 1850 Much of the above information can be confirmed in certificates. Janet. PS Seems the membership of this List is outside Britain?

On Nov 23, 2008, at 3:21 PM, Janet wrote: > ...PS Seems the membership of this List is outside Britain? > Janet, The list has members throughout the world, including the UK. More specifically, including Tyrone. Claire K List Admin

Dear Listers Many thanks to Claire and Jim Carroll and all those who have contributed on Irish place names, I have had some useful time exploring the Placenames Database, so thanks for the website lead. Thought I would share my own "score" -- "Killymallaght currently at 47 NOT OUT!" YES, Killymallaght is a cricket club playing in the North-West Irish League (their home ground is at the northern base of Killymallaght Hill, just cross the county border into co. Londonderry). But NO, I am not referring to cricket scores. "47 Not Out" is simply the present scoreboard for the number of spelling variations for this Glendermott valley townland along the Burnagibbagh .... as found in official sources. Would be interested to hear of anyone with similar experiences, and of course, looking for any info on Killymallaght (however it's spelt!) How we love those green fields! Sincerely David Mitchell

Claire: Thank you for this reply to Jim. For me, it explained a lot of things very clearly. Much appreciated. Ray in oz. ----- Original Message ----- From: "Claire K" <cagthe@gmail.com> To: "jj.carroll" <jj.carroll@comcast.net> > Hi Jim, > > The Index to Townlands (short, informal name for the work you cite) > was published in 1861, based on the 1851 Irish census, and was > intended to standardize the Anglicized (English) spellings (and more > than spellings -- some placenames had alternate names that were not > mere spelling variations) of placenames as of that date. ...

Hi Jim, The Index to Townlands (short, informal name for the work you cite) was published in 1861, based on the 1851 Irish census, and was intended to standardize the Anglicized (English) spellings (and more than spellings -- some placenames had alternate names that were not mere spelling variations) of placenames as of that date. If you've found Corkill in a pre-1861 document, it's not "standard" because it was one of the many variants that the (British) government was trying to standardize by means of the 1861 publication. Incidentally, with or without the "h," the name's pronounced the same, so the "Cork-ill" spelling might actually be more reflective of the pronunciation. (So, if you found "Corkill" in a post-1861 document, it's just reflecting the local pronunciation). The Index to Townlands is available digitally at seanruad.com . The Placenames Database you mention is an effort to standardize the IRISH spelling of placenames, not the English. It's an effort of the government of the Republic, so their coverage of Northern Ireland is spotty ("Irish name to be confirmed" comes up on the ones I spot- checked). On the search you mention, the results show four hits for Corkhill, only one of which has (yet) had an original Irish name put forward. Because it's possible that different placenames (or surnames) that are Anglicized the same have different Irish origins, the folks creating the Placenames Database are not assuming that the four Corkhills all derive from the same Irish word, so you should not either. And note, the one that does have the Irish form says it is "non-validated." Presumably, then, more research is needed before they consider this definitive. Both sources are useful, for different purposes. In Northern Ireland, the Pointer database is also helpful -- www.pointer-ni.gov.uk -- but it's not currently pulling up (do I remember it being pulled? anyone?). A cached version of the Pointer page directs you to http://www.osni.gov.uk/ for geographical lookups. Hope that helps. Claire K. CTI List Admin On Nov 22, 2008, at 11:19 AM, jj.carroll wrote: > In attempting to find a definitive answer to the question as to why > some authorities refer to the townland of Corkhill as Corkill, in > County Tyrone, ... > "According to "General Index to the Town and Townlands of Ireland, > (Registrar-General of Ireland" (Dublin, 1861, reprinted 1984 - > http://lccn.loc.gov/83082450), there were five locations in County > Tyrone... [That's five locations with Corkhill in their names -- 4 Corkhills and the Corkhill Demesne. CK] > > ...Placenames Database of Ireland which facilitates the > standardization of "Irish Placenames" that have been approved by > the [Ordnance Survey of Northern Ireland]... <htttp:// > www.logainm.ie/Do.aspx?uiLang=en. " > > This later site is very handy, but it may require some diligent > searching on your part. For example, under Corkhill (of County > Tyrone) there were four citations but none of them came up with the > one that I was looking for. Further down the list I located the > Irish spelt name of Corrchoill, which was what I was looking for. > > This data base contains both the Irish and English spellings for: > 61,622 townlands 18,311 streets 6,180 minor features 3,515 > electoral districts 2,925 post offices 2,574 civil parishes 679 > rivers 651 lakes 374 features 345 baronies 268 towns 219 population > centres 211 islands and archipelagos 190 mountains and mountain > ranges 148 monuments 121 promontories 105 bridges 104 bays 83 hills > 62 localities 32 counties 32 rocks 26 passes 25 valleys 19 strands > 17 estuaries 12 fields 61 other geographical units > > Regards, > Jim Carroll

In attempting to find a definitive answer to the question as to why some authorities refer to the townland of Corkhill as Corkill, in County Tyrone, I asked Mr. Ed Redmond of the U. S. Library of Congress some questions. I think his answer would be of benefit to the list, as another source of information: "According to "General Index to the Town and Townlands of Ireland, (Registrar-General of Ireland" (Dublin, 1861, reprinted 1984 - http://lccn.loc.gov/83082450), there were five locations in County Tyrone, Ireland at the time of the 1861 publication... With regard to an authoritative spelling of Corkhill, we suggest consulting the Placenames Database of Ireland which facilitates the standardization of "Irish Placenames" that have been approved by the [Ordnance Survey of Northern Ireland]... The web site may be accessed via <http://www.logainm.ie/Do.aspx?uiLang=en. " This later site is very handy, but it may require some diligent searching on your part. For example, under Corkhill (of County Tyrone) there were four citations but none of them came up with the one that I was looking for. Further down the list I located the Irish spelt name of Corrchoill, which was what I was looking for. This data base contains both the Irish and English spellings for: 61,622 townlands 18,311 streets 6,180 minor features 3,515 electoral districts 2,925 post offices 2,574 civil parishes 679 rivers 651 lakes 374 features 345 baronies 268 towns 219 population centres 211 islands and archipelagos 190 mountains and mountain ranges 148 monuments 121 promontories 105 bridges 104 bays 83 hills 62 localities 32 counties 32 rocks 26 passes 25 valleys 19 strands 17 estuaries 12 fields 61 other geographical units Regards, Jim Carroll

I've just subscribed today having looked around the archives a few years back. I saw where someone mentioned the Fort on Hadrian's Wall and referred to the name Cilvrnum (Chesters) being the Viking name for Fort. I would like to ask if any one knows any more. Seems to me that as there are other forts on Hadrians wall, with different names, that might not be so. I digress. :-) The purpose of joining this list is that CHESTER is my paternal ancestry where they lived in Scotland. Those born earlier, in Census & certificates are referred to as having been born in Ireland where the name was CHESTERS. Is there any one subscribed here with interests in the same name or with any knowledge of it in Ireland? Janet

The Gale and British Library are offering a free period, no idea how long it will last but nows the time. I have been hunting the COSMO my ggf arrived in New York City on. and every time there was a list of ships ??entering out <G> and coming in. It is a wonderful chance to hunt for ships. I was limiting by Bristol and Cosmo and need to try Abagun. Anyway enter from http://access.gale.com/newstrial/ the password is british christene E-mail message checked by Spyware Doctor (6.0.0.386) Database version: 5.11160 http://www.pctools.com/en/spyware-doctor-antivirus/

Roy, After seeing Sue's pointer to Hill's "Plantation", p. 531, I went to my Unicorn CD and, sure enough, there is an extensive footnote at the bottom of the page about Sir William and Eliston. Unfortunately, the CD is not copyable (nor searchable), so could not make a copy of the pg. for you. Hopefully, you can get into the google books full version to have a look. I was told some time ago by a lister that the book was downloadable (and searchable) at 30+ MB from google, but I have been unsuccessful on the several times I have looked and tried. Perhaps they changed their mind! Jack Thailand ----- Original Message ----- From: "Roy Keys" <apeiron@vif.com> To: <COTYRONEIRELAND@rootsweb.com> Sent: Sunday, November 16, 2008 10:29 PM Subject: [CoTyIre] Eliston Estate of Sir William Hamilton >I would like to learn more about the the lands and tenants of Sir William > Hamilton in the 1600s. > > What sources should one consult for information about: > 1. Location of his estate (Eliston) > 2. Tenants in the 1600s, their origins. > 3. Any deeds or wills relating to the land and tenants. > > Thanks, > Roy > >

Roy, There are rental papers for Manor Elieston (aka Elliston) in P.R.O.N.I. in Belfast which I believe covers the relevant period for you. I'll send you the reference number for the series of materials in that collection. Given your time period of research, I highly recommend William Roulston's book on researching in that time frame. I will give you the full reference to that book -which is available for on-line purchase from the UHF bookstore http://www.ancestryireland.com Regards, Clare L.

Many thanks to Sue and Jack for their suggestions. I have indeed read the account in Hill's, which has inspired me to try to determine which townlands were comprised within the estate. Len has provided some information offlist which has helped greatly. Apart from Dunamanagh proper, it probably encompassed a site called Waterloo Hill, and a land formation known as Lisnaragh Scotch (perhaps settled by former Scottish mercenaries from the MacKay regiment?). I wonder how Waterloo Hill took its name: could it have been named by veterans of continental wars who happened to be billeted in Waterloo during the 30 years war? Also, I recall seeing a will of a John Keys living at Drain in the 1830s. Could he be a descendant of the MacKay who were once tenants of Sir William H? Question, questions..., Roy

Hi Jack Yes that book is a "FULL" view book and can be read online , copy/pasted, or downloaded. I copied the footnote and sent it to Roy along with further directions. And again....I say ...the "Google book site can be an incredible source of information" Good Luck All! Sue in NY **************Get the Moviefone Toolbar. Showtimes, theaters, movie news & more!(http://pr.atwola.com/promoclk/100000075x1212774565x1200812037/aol?redir=htt p://toolbar.aol.com/moviefone/download.html?ncid=emlcntusdown00000001)

Thanks to Len for further info offlist. I notice that there is a land formation near Donnamanagh called Waterloo Hill. Does anyone know the origin of the name? There is a place of similar name in Tipperary. Could there be some connection? I presume that Dunnamanagh Castle was the Hamilton manor called Eliston. Is that correct? Also, where would tenants (Scots, and presumably Anglican or Presbyterian) of Sir William Hamilton have been buried? Thanks, Roy

Hi Roy I was going to mail you off list but decided instead to post to list. I am usually more vocal on another list where ,I am sure any on this list who recognise me lol will attest, I tend to mention "the google book search site". I can not emphasize enough...that this site has...old books from all over but in this circumstance "old Irish" books written in the years from 1700s to present. There are history books, genalogical books, religious books, and on and on. Some can be read online...some that can't can still be located to see if they are at libraries near you. For example...my Copeland line was very involved in Methodism and thru this site and all the books written by Crookshank and others I found lots of info on them. Including a "footnote" telling exactly where my Henderson family was from, and who my ggg grandmother's (Anne Henderson) sister may have married! I also found a genealogial book written and researched by a possible cousin from in the 60's. I couldn't read it online BUT the NYC library had a copy and my library borrowed it....allowing me to read it and learn a few more clues into my Armstrong line. In searching your Sir William I believe I found some books that may hold exactly what you are looking for.... I put in "Sir William Hamilton Tyrone" and I came up with these....This is the page with ALL the books....check the first one especially...it looked to have some interesting info....hope this helps... Sue in NY *** _http://books.google.com/books?ie=ISO-8859-1&output=html&q=Sir+William+Hamilton+Tyrone_ (http://books.google.com/books?ie=ISO-8859-1&output=html&q=Sir+William+Hamilton+Tyrone) *** **************Get the Moviefone Toolbar. Showtimes, theaters, movie news & more!(http://pr.atwola.com/promoclk/100000075x1212774565x1200812037/aol?redir=htt p://toolbar.aol.com/moviefone/download.html?ncid=emlcntusdown00000001)

I would like to learn more about the the lands and tenants of Sir William Hamilton in the 1600s. What sources should one consult for information about: 1. Location of his estate (Eliston) 2. Tenants in the 1600s, their origins. 3. Any deeds or wills relating to the land and tenants. Thanks, Roy