Thanks Denis. Sounds like I have another good book to buy. On the same topic, another great book is "Saxons, Vikings and Celts - the Genetic Roots of Britain and Ireland" by Brian Sykes, Professor of Human Genetics at Oxford Univerity. It's the result of a large DNA study of Ireland, Scotland, Wales, and England conducted by Oxford. It says basically what you're saying - that the Celts came to Ireland and Britain from continental Europe and, furthermore, that they were for a time the predominent people on the European continent. So your conclusion is also right - that people from Germany are just as likely to be Celts as Germanic. Loretta -----Original Message----- From: Genealogy [mailto:dkbeachfam@aol.com] Sent: Tuesday, February 03, 2009 11:57 AM To: Elizabeth Cunningham Cc: Loretta; FERMANAGH-GOLD-L@rootsweb.com; cotyroneireland@rootsweb.com Subject: Re: [CoTyIre] Celtic eyes & Toes If any are interested in pursuing Celtic heritage and the geographical location of various Celtic Tribes, I would recommend reading "The Celtic World" edited by Mirand J. Green. The is book relates to almost all geographic locations where Celts were located, which may surprise many as they were located in Europe prior to Ireland, Wales, and England. Many tribes were located on the Rhine River Valley of present day Germany. One may find they have a Celtic lineage not Germanic or both if ancestors came from this region of Europe. Denis This book should be available in most libraries or via inter-library loan. It is a large text, 813 pages in hard bound edition. ISBN 0-415-05764-7 (hbk) ISBN 0-415-14627-5 (pbk) Denis On Feb 3, 2009, at 11:45 AM, Elizabeth Cunningham wrote: > Just about all my ancestors are German, and an aunt said that having a > second toe larger than the first "was proof I was an Ault" So I don't > know about the Celtic part. > > Elizabeth C >

Listers While I was raoming Woronora Cemetery (Catholic section) I took photos of my family but also of others this is the transcription of one of them..if interested I will emal it out... In Loving memory of our dearly loved only daughter and sister Nellie McGallion died 21st June 1919 aged 25 years also my dear husband and our father James McGillion Native of County Tyrone died 15th Aug 1930 aged 70 yrs also our dear mother annie McGillion Native of Cty Donegal Ireland died 28th Jan 1932 aged 68 yrs and our dear Friend Grace Lafferty (looks like Donegal ) Irland died 5th Jan 1946 aged 80 yrs I hope that this is of help to someone Christene

Hello Maisie, if you have a male Skiffington, you might want to have genealogical Y-DNA test. I checked FTDNA's site and one Skiffington has completed a test. You can access their site at: http://www.familytreedna.com. This test might assist in your research and confirm with other testers as their DNA is added to FTDNA's data base. Denis On Feb 3, 2009, at 2:25 PM, Maisie Egger wrote: > Good morning, listers, > > I continue my over forty-year odyssey to try to document whether my > husband's great-grandfather Patrick Skiffington actually came from > Donaghmore, Co. Tyrone, and who his parents and siblings might have > been. I can't find a paper trail, and what compounds the problem > is that I fear Patrick was most likely illiterate. > > Our short visit to the canon's office of the local R.C. church in > Donaghmore, contacts with two genealogy sources, for which a > payment was required (!), and much input from many kind people on > the different lists, have resulted in nothing tangible. > > The closest I've come to is the possibility of a Pat. Skiffington, > Ireland (no other information), listed as a passenger on the Jane > Walker 1834, but this is all prior to 1840 when we have > confirmation of Patrick Skiffington's marriage to Bridget Kelly > (Ireland) in 1840 in the The Basilica of the Blessed Assumption, > Baltimore, Maryland. > > I seem not to have the Midas touch because I have received no reply > from the Diocese of Armagh, which was suggested to me as the > repository of Catholic records, or a church in Baltimore which > should have the records of the baptismal records of the children of > Patrick and Bridget Kelly Skiffington, presumably. > > We have nothing pre Patrick Skiffington's life in Baltimore, > Maryland, USA, except for some bits and dabs of information about > the movements of him and Bridget Kelly Skiffington in and around > Baltimore after his marriage in this country. > > We have copies of Bridget's application for a widow's U.S. Civil > War army pension, which took three years to resolve. Patrick > Skiffington had sustained injuries when he fell on his bayonet > during a retreat from either Antietam or Williamsport in 1863 and > died six months later in his home in Baltimore. > > We have a list of their children, one of whom, Edward, also served > in the Civil War. After Patrick died, he and Bridget (Patrick's > widow) bounced around a few addresses in Baltimore, and then I > believe they moved to New York perhaps to be near one of her > daughters. Searches of cemeteries for Bridget's burial place were > futile, but Edward's remains were returned from N.Y., to be > interred in New Cathedral Cemetery, Baltimore, but not in the same > lair as his father Patrick Skiffington. Nothing to grab on to there > either. > > Those who tried to help me in my search agree that it's like > flogging a dead horse and maybe I just have to reconcile myself to > the fact that I am lucky to have details of Patrick Skiffington's > marriage in 1840 (the marriage certificate is short and sweet, > birthplace Ireland, no parents listed, and no indication of whether > the witnesses might have been related, etc.). In addition, we do > have the Civil War widow's pension papers, but again, Patrick > Skiffington's birthplace is listed as Ireland, with no other > details. There is a physical description, but nothing that would > help us to "find" him in Ireland. > > As you can imagine, I have been uphill and down dale, and am > submitting this "anecdote" again, in the hope that perhaps someone > can suggest a resource I have not yet tapped into to confirm that > Patrick Skiffington was born in Donaghmore, and beyond that who his > parents might have been and any siblings. > > In appreciation, > > Maisie > > ------------- > Our community web-site: http://freepages.genealogy.rootsweb.com/ > ~cotyroneireland > > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > COTYRONEIRELAND-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' > without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message

I did a search through various book sellers online and located the following for "The Celtic World". Quite a price variation depending on source. Google has a preview of this book online. Routledge $350.00; Amazon $341.25; Barns & Nobel used $21.95; Google $25 to $619. Cheers, Denis On Feb 3, 2009, at 1:52 PM, Brendan McClean wrote: > I think it must be a typo on Amazon :P what.. are the pages lined > with goldleaf ;-) > > Your ancestors from Tyrone? Mine are.. surname McClean. > > On Tue, Feb 3, 2009 at 12:54 PM, Genealogy <dkbeachfam@aol.com> wrote: > WOW! Price of book has increased. Did you try Barns & Noble? > Possibly, a used copy available. I purchased mine when it was > published at $45. > > Cheers, Denis > On Feb 3, 2009, at 12:33 PM, Brendan McClean wrote: > >> Hi Denis, >> >> Thanks for the suggestion.. just went on Amazon.com and the book >> lists for $341 - yikes! >> >> But it looks good! >> >> Thanks, >> >> Brendan >> >> On Tue, Feb 3, 2009 at 11:56 AM, Genealogy <dkbeachfam@aol.com> >> wrote: >> If any are interested in pursuing Celtic heritage and the >> geographical location of various Celtic Tribes, I would recommend >> reading "The Celtic World" edited by Mirand J. Green. The is book >> relates to almost all geographic locations where Celts were located, >> which may surprise many as they were located in Europe prior to >> Ireland, Wales, and England. Many tribes were located on the Rhine >> River Valley of present day Germany. One may find they have a Celtic >> lineage not Germanic or both if ancestors came from this region of >> Europe. >> >> Denis >> >> This book should be available in most libraries or via inter-library >> loan. It is a large text, 813 pages in hard bound edition. >> ISBN 0-415-05764-7 (hbk) >> ISBN 0-415-14627-5 (pbk) >> >> Denis >> >> On Feb 3, 2009, at 11:45 AM, Elizabeth Cunningham wrote: >> >> > Just about all my ancestors are German, and an aunt said that >> having a >> > second toe larger than the first "was proof I was an Ault" >> > So I don't know about the Celtic part. >> > >> > Elizabeth C >> > >> >> ------------- >> Our community web-site: http://freepages.genealogy.rootsweb.com/ >> ~cotyroneireland >> >> >> ------------------------------- >> To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to >> COTYRONEIRELAND-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' >> without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message >> > > = >

If any are interested in pursuing Celtic heritage and the geographical location of various Celtic Tribes, I would recommend reading "The Celtic World" edited by Mirand J. Green. The is book relates to almost all geographic locations where Celts were located, which may surprise many as they were located in Europe prior to Ireland, Wales, and England. Many tribes were located on the Rhine River Valley of present day Germany. One may find they have a Celtic lineage not Germanic or both if ancestors came from this region of Europe. Denis This book should be available in most libraries or via inter-library loan. It is a large text, 813 pages in hard bound edition. ISBN 0-415-05764-7 (hbk) ISBN 0-415-14627-5 (pbk) Denis On Feb 3, 2009, at 11:45 AM, Elizabeth Cunningham wrote: > Just about all my ancestors are German, and an aunt said that having a > second toe larger than the first "was proof I was an Ault" > So I don't know about the Celtic part. > > Elizabeth C >

Just about all my ancestors are German, and an aunt said that having a second toe larger than the first "was proof I was an Ault" So I don't know about the Celtic part. Elizabeth C Loretta wrote: > Wow, just goes to show how often we assume that whatever traits we have are > what most everyone else has. Wrong! I found an encyclopedic web page which > says that dominant genes cause the "big" toe to be the longest while a > recessive gene causes the second toe to be longer. Unfortunately, it > doesn't say where this recessive gene comes from, but I have to assume you > are right, Wendy, about it being Celtic. I'm not even going to think about > other explanations I've just read that say longer second toes mean, for > example, that you are descended from Egyptians, or you are descended from > royalty, or you are a freak. Haha. Thanks Wendy! > > http://www.nationmaster.com/encyclopedia/Hallux > > -----Original Message----- > From: Bob & Wendy Stevenson [mailto:stevensons@odyssey.on.ca] > Sent: Sunday, February 01, 2009 12:52 PM > To: Loretta > Subject: Re: Celtic eyes & Toes > > So...Loretta...what you thought was 'normal' in a longer second toe, > actually shows your celtic heritage!! > Wendy > >

Good morning, listers, I continue my over forty-year odyssey to try to document whether my husband's great-grandfather Patrick Skiffington actually came from Donaghmore, Co. Tyrone, and who his parents and siblings might have been. I can't find a paper trail, and what compounds the problem is that I fear Patrick was most likely illiterate. Our short visit to the canon's office of the local R.C. church in Donaghmore, contacts with two genealogy sources, for which a payment was required (!), and much input from many kind people on the different lists, have resulted in nothing tangible. The closest I've come to is the possibility of a Pat. Skiffington, Ireland (no other information), listed as a passenger on the Jane Walker 1834, but this is all prior to 1840 when we have confirmation of Patrick Skiffington's marriage to Bridget Kelly (Ireland) in 1840 in the The Basilica of the Blessed Assumption, Baltimore, Maryland. I seem not to have the Midas touch because I have received no reply from the Diocese of Armagh, which was suggested to me as the repository of Catholic records, or a church in Baltimore which should have the records of the baptismal records of the children of Patrick and Bridget Kelly Skiffington, presumably. We have nothing pre Patrick Skiffington's life in Baltimore, Maryland, USA, except for some bits and dabs of information about the movements of him and Bridget Kelly Skiffington in and around Baltimore after his marriage in this country. We have copies of Bridget's application for a widow's U.S. Civil War army pension, which took three years to resolve. Patrick Skiffington had sustained injuries when he fell on his bayonet during a retreat from either Antietam or Williamsport in 1863 and died six months later in his home in Baltimore. We have a list of their children, one of whom, Edward, also served in the Civil War. After Patrick died, he and Bridget (Patrick's widow) bounced around a few addresses in Baltimore, and then I believe they moved to New York perhaps to be near one of her daughters. Searches of cemeteries for Bridget's burial place were futile, but Edward's remains were returned from N.Y., to be interred in New Cathedral Cemetery, Baltimore, but not in the same lair as his father Patrick Skiffington. Nothing to grab on to there either. Those who tried to help me in my search agree that it's like flogging a dead horse and maybe I just have to reconcile myself to the fact that I am lucky to have details of Patrick Skiffington's marriage in 1840 (the marriage certificate is short and sweet, birthplace Ireland, no parents listed, and no indication of whether the witnesses might have been related, etc.). In addition, we do have the Civil War widow's pension papers, but again, Patrick Skiffington's birthplace is listed as Ireland, with no other details. There is a physical description, but nothing that would help us to "find" him in Ireland. As you can imagine, I have been uphill and down dale, and am submitting this "anecdote" again, in the hope that perhaps someone can suggest a resource I have not yet tapped into to confirm that Patrick Skiffington was born in Donaghmore, and beyond that who his parents might have been and any siblings. In appreciation, Maisie

Hello James. I have had other competing priorities for the last several weeks, and only just now got to read the item which you forwarded below. Thank you very much for sharing it with us -- especially with all of its included links. I cannot recall having seen others writing back to the list to say thank you; so I wanted to ensure that you did receive a public thanks for your posting. Likewise, in going over accumulated messages from the list over the past few days, I have seen many other postings by list-members, with the aim of helping the rest of us; and again I thank each such poster; and hope that others might have thanked you either publicly or privately for your thoughtfulness in sharing your knowledge and gleanings with the rest of us. Regards to all. Ray in oz. ----- Original Message ----- From: "James P. Murphy" <jpmurphy@jpmurphy.com> > >From the New England Historic Genealogical Society current online member > newsletter: > Research Recommendations: Irish Ancestors > by Michael J. Leclerc > > I've just returned from an eight-day cruise of the Caribbean with The > Irish > Ancestral Research Association > <http://rs6.net/tn.jsp?et=1102420773318&e=001-c-eN0vbQ5GG4DCgQqlzXBuE32r8W8h > I4i84ZShmBcROm2f7HN1jYJKcYkcpONdu5_Fa1sSbrSLqxs4j7hx41KHm-uSUqYZ3l0Hb8nMvUFU > => (TIARA). ...

Thank you, Ray. I'm learning a lot from this list. James P. Murphy Princeton, NJ 08542 USA jpmurphy@jpmurphy.com   -----Original Message----- From: cotyroneireland-bounces@rootsweb.com [mailto:cotyroneireland-bounces@rootsweb.com] On Behalf Of Ray Sent: Monday, February 02, 2009 6:37 AM To: cotyroneireland@rootsweb.com Subject: Re: [CoTyIre] NEHGS Newsletter Review of Resources Hello James. I have had other competing priorities for the last several weeks, and only just now got to read the item which you forwarded below. Thank you very much for sharing it with us -- especially with all of its included links. I cannot recall having seen others writing back to the list to say thank you; so I wanted to ensure that you did receive a public thanks for your posting. Likewise, in going over accumulated messages from the list over the past few days, I have seen many other postings by list-members, with the aim of helping the rest of us; and again I thank each such poster; and hope that others might have thanked you either publicly or privately for your thoughtfulness in sharing your knowledge and gleanings with the rest of us. Regards to all. Ray in oz. ----- Original Message ----- From: "James P. Murphy" <jpmurphy@jpmurphy.com> > >From the New England Historic Genealogical Society current online member > newsletter: > Research Recommendations: Irish Ancestors > by Michael J. Leclerc > > I've just returned from an eight-day cruise of the Caribbean with The > Irish > Ancestral Research Association > <http://rs6.net/tn.jsp?et=1102420773318&e=001-c-eN0vbQ5GG4DCgQqlzXBuE32r8W8h > I4i84ZShmBcROm2f7HN1jYJKcYkcpONdu5_Fa1sSbrSLqxs4j7hx41KHm-uSUqYZ3l0Hb8nMvUFU > => (TIARA). ... ------------- Our community web-site: http://freepages.genealogy.rootsweb.com/~cotyroneireland ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to COTYRONEIRELAND-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message

Enjoy your trip, Jill! Are you visiting any particular towns in Co. Tyrone? Don't forget to stop in local libraries and to talk with the local people, especially in the more rural areas of the county. We researchers tend to forget that the Irish tradition is an oral one. Sure, I learned from records that my ancestor Peggy Lagan lived in Innishatieve, but, it was only by talking to the wonderful Innishatieve people did I learn that the children of the townland stopped by her house for food and warmth on their way home from school when she was elderly and alone. That kind of genealogical information is priceless. There is a Tyrone Crystal factory near Dungannon that produces beautiful pieces that will provide you with a lovely Tyrone keepsake. It is an interesting tour, if you have the time. There is much history in Derry, both old and recent. Seeing both the walls and the Free Derry site will give you a sense of the trials this city has been through. One more thought--if you are at any genealogical or history center etc that keeps a book of visitors, make sure you sign it. I did and was contacted almost ten years later by a woman who saw my entry and talked to locals who remembered me. She got in touch and it turned out that we are cousins. Deb **************** DEBORAH LARGE FOX www.deborahlarge.com member, Genealogical Speakers Guild http://www.genealogicalspeakersguild.org/member_details.php?member=FoxD

Well I don't know how many people think a townland has a town! It does not in many many cases. The link below will give you pictures of churches, townlands which even today are just empty rolling hills, I hope it helps understanding how empty a townland was and still is...... http://www.geograph.org.uk/mapbrowse.php?t=tolJ5oOXXJ0oOJFoOXXJfolNXJqoOOuJL5405o4wZNbw4at88tMMMZ&i=1&j=1&zoomin=1?59,10 Many people think 18th century churches still exist and expect to be able to arrive at the door expecting records to be there....have a look at what you are up against, you can move to any part of Ireland by clicking on "Map"..... Joy Hogg wrote: > I am a teacher and we do know about the value of attaching information to a story, especially a shocking one. I remember a history teacher walking in and slamming his books on his desk (that's always how he got our attention) and saying "Ann Boleyn had six fingers." From that we learned all about Henry the 8th, religion, all his wives, etc. > > I am working on family history books on Ancestry and I am adding all sorts of stories, pictures, art (documented) to make it interesting and real. I was telling my husband about our historical conjecture and he asked if I intended to put it in, not knowing which applied to James Hogg, trundling over the hill and approaching Tyrone County and Cookstown. I will put all of the possibilities in. Any one of our historical speculations will make the genealogy more real and more interesting. > Joy > > ------------- > Our community web-site: http://freepages.genealogy.rootsweb.com/~cotyroneireland > > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to COTYRONEIRELAND-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message > > > --- > avast! Antivirus: Inbound message clean. > Virus Database (VPS): 090201-0, 01/02/2009 > Tested on: 01/02/2009 23:48:42 > avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2009 ALWIL Software. > http://www.avast.com > > > > >

Hello Joy and other Listers, I am going to visit County Tyrone at the end of this month and would be glad to share my photos when I come home. We are starting in Belfast, driving through Tyrone and ending in Londonderry. If anyone has any suggestions about sites to see please let me know. Also, I read on the list from another poster that it is hard to find a church or a place you can go into to look up records...is this also the case with Tyrone? Jill Wilson

I am a teacher and we do know about the value of attaching information to a story, especially a shocking one. I remember a history teacher walking in and slamming his books on his desk (that's always how he got our attention) and saying "Ann Boleyn had six fingers." From that we learned all about Henry the 8th, religion, all his wives, etc.   I am working on family history books on Ancestry and I am adding all sorts of stories, pictures, art (documented) to make it interesting and real. I was telling my husband about our historical conjecture and he asked if I intended to put it in, not knowing which applied to James Hogg, trundling over the hill and approaching Tyrone County and Cookstown. I will put all of the possibilities in. Any one of our historical speculations will make the genealogy more real and more interesting. Joy

Thanks to everyone who has shared information or great web sites to explain some of this movement to me and to others. My childrens' eyes glaze over when I tell them about relatives, unless there is a story involved. What about pictures? Can pics of Tyrone County be emailed to some of us? Historical pics, or historical stories, dress, et. Joy

Wow, just goes to show how often we assume that whatever traits we have are what most everyone else has. Wrong! I found an encyclopedic web page which says that dominant genes cause the "big" toe to be the longest while a recessive gene causes the second toe to be longer. Unfortunately, it doesn't say where this recessive gene comes from, but I have to assume you are right, Wendy, about it being Celtic. I'm not even going to think about other explanations I've just read that say longer second toes mean, for example, that you are descended from Egyptians, or you are descended from royalty, or you are a freak. Haha. Thanks Wendy! http://www.nationmaster.com/encyclopedia/Hallux -----Original Message----- From: Bob & Wendy Stevenson [mailto:stevensons@odyssey.on.ca] Sent: Sunday, February 01, 2009 12:52 PM To: Loretta Subject: Re: Celtic eyes & Toes So...Loretta...what you thought was 'normal' in a longer second toe, actually shows your celtic heritage!! Wendy

That would be great Mike. I just found something, searching for the word "oblique" rather than "Mongolian." An 1887 issue of "Celtic Magazine" includes an article titled "The Present State of Celtic Ethnology," in which reference is made to Dr. Beddoe's book "Races of Britain." It says specifically that Dr. Beddoe believed that the Celts in that day showed indications of "Asiatic - Chinese or Mongols, even with oblique eyes included ..." Go to ... http://books.google.com/books?id=-BZ2yWfXu3IC <http://books.google.com/books?id=-BZ2yWfXu3IC&printsec=frontcover&dq=celtic +magazine> &printsec=frontcover&dq=celtic+magazine The article begins on page 72. The discussion quoted above is on page 77. Or, go directly to Dr. Beddoe. Google books also has "The Races of Britain" by John Beddoe, M.D., F.R.S. published in 1885. Chapter II, begining on page 9, "Prehistoric Races," which includes Beddoe's discussion of Mongolian and other racial features among the Celtic. Loretta -----Original Message----- From: BushesandBugs@aol.com [mailto:BushesandBugs@aol.com] Sent: Sunday, February 01, 2009 09:19 AM To: lynneage@house-of-lynn.com Subject: Re: [CoTyIre] Mongolian/Celtic eyes In a message dated 1/31/2009 9:25:18 A.M. Eastern Standard Time, lynneage@house-of-lynn.com writes: Mike, I'd love to see some photos of "Mongolian/Celtic" eyes. I just finished a " Hammish MacBeth" book, in it Beaton mentions the Celtic eyes of some of the Highlanders. I have found the reference before as Mongolian eyes but have had no luck with Wikipedia or Google. It is a family trait and I have seen it on my trips to Ireland and Scotland. If I find the reference I will post it. Mike Campbell

This is a wonderfully responsive group! <g> I have several volunteers, to whom I will reply off-list. Thanks, all, for considering my request. Jennifer

Hello Jennifer - I'll give it a try - please send attachment to c.russell@charter.net Cynthia N. Russell help with translating Gaelic to English on a Kildress parish gravestone? It's a very short inscription. Could you contact me off-list, please, as I know that attachments to list messages are not allowed. Jennifer David geniejen45243@yahoo.com

Hello, Listers ... I wonder if someone here could help with translating Gaelic to English for me on a Kildress parish gravestone? It's a very short inscription. Could you contact me off-list, please, as I know that attachments to list messages are not allowed. Many thanks to whomever might volunteer. Regards, Jennifer David geniejen45243@yahoo.com

time consuming and a challenge. but the latest BMD offers from th LDS ha brought some of us alive and taken me a little further in our search . . . But I wonder if anyone out there can help me get a look at the details of the Census 1901 for Tyrone Thanks, Pat