Re the following message from you, Theresa: ------------------- Hi again Maisie I was thinking!! since you've spent such a long time looking for Patrick Skeffington to no avail, it maybe would be worth your while checking out if parish records actually exist for the years you are searching. Many parishes didn't have records going back to early 1800s. If you go to the Proni website www.proni.gov.uk and click on the link for online guides and indexes, it will bring up in its list documents that show the Church of Ireland, Presbyterian and Roman Catholic parish records it has microfilmed for the whole of Ulster. It may well be that no records exist and you just have to accept that. However, there are still Skeffingtons in Co Tyrone, all mainly around the Dungannon area. Here's the list from the telephone directory: E SkeffingtonTel: (028) 8772 406960 Reaskmore Rd, Dungannon, BT70 1QF J SkeffingtonTel: (028) 8772 4612 8 Glebe Pk, Dungannon, BT70 3PS J SkeffingtonTel: (028) 9028 1282 127 Great Northern St, Belfast, BT9 7FL M SkeffingtonTel: (028) 8772 7085 27 Lisgallon Rd, Dungannon, BT70 1SW Martin J SkeffingtonTel: (028) 8774 8691 20 Knockmoy Pk, Coalisland, Dungannon, BT71 4LU N SkeffingtonTel: (028) 8774 0566 136 Annagher Rd, Coalisland, Dungannon, BT71 4NE O SkeffingtonTel: (028) 8774 61286 Dernmore Dv, Coalisland, Dungannon, BT71 4SL P SkeffingtonTel: (028) 8772 78774 Willow Clo, Dungannon, BT70 1XF R SkeffingtonTel: (028) 8772 929888A Reaskmore Rd, Dungannon, BT70 1QF S SkeffingtonTel: (028) 8772 5209229 Carnteel Rd, Dungannon, BT70 1PG S SkeffingtonTel: (028) 8774 978212 Clonmeen Cotts, Dungannon, BT71 5QN Sean SkeffingtonTel: (028) 8776 7680 10 Speers Pl, Dungannon, BT70 1TQ It may well be that writing to them might lead to someone connected to your ancestors. If you do decide to write, it's a good idea to enclose your email address. Many people might not bother writing a letter back, but there will be some who will be quite happy to send an email. Should you decide to write then may I offer you the best of luck in finding a connection. Theresa ------------------ Thanks again, Theresa, for your further suggestions. I enrolled the help of a fellow from Irish World to check the church records for Donaghmore, and then when there weren't any for there, he checked Dungannon, but came up empty-handed. More money down the drain! As I noted before, I even wrote to the Diocese in Armagh...not answer was the loud reply, as my mother used to crack! We even paid a visit to Donaghmore one time, checked out the Skiffington name with the shop people in the little shops, and talked to an ex-policeman who knew someone by the name of Skiffongton ...in 1941... said deadpan! We thought he was being unwittingly humorous. The ex-policeman came from the area and according to him there were no Skiffingtons left there. Someone else remarked that there were two bachelor brothers by this name, but they, too, were long since gone. Obviously there had to have been some Skiffingtons in Donaghmore at one point, but whether related to Patrick remains a puzzle. We went into the old Catholic cemetery across the street from the canon's office (he had no records prior to 1877) to check to see if there were any old headstones bearing the Skiffington name, but didn't have time to go through the whole place. I have a feeling that Patrick and his wife Bridget (Kelly) may not have come from enough money for their forebears to afford a headstone. As I recall, Donaghmore is a fairly small community, and when I saw the name Skiffington on an "offical" log that looked like a list of renters in the Heritage Museum, I wrote to them no fewer than three times over the years to check up on this, but received no response. When we were there, the museum was wide open, but those in charge had gone to lunch presumably. I now believe that this museum is in Dungannon under a different name. If memory serves me right, I may even have tried to contact them in Dungannon, but again received no reply. I have always offered to pay any costs or make a donation for any extra effort, but that doesn't seem to be incentive enough. It's frustrating, therefore, to try to do business long distance. A newly discovered "far out" cousin whose forebear came from Co. Antrim and who was a brother to mine, checked out Patrick Skiffington's name at PRONI in Belfast and came up blank. Main problem is that he appears to have been born too early, maybe around 1815, and his wife Bridget Kelly 1814. I have no idea at all where she came from in Ireland. Now, your idea to write to the names you have listed bears some merit, because one year when I was home (Glasgow, Scotland) I went through every single kind of directory I could find and wrote down everyone listed with my maiden surname. It isn't a common name at all, so after writing to all 78 I'd found in the whole of the U.K., I heard from two who were actually related to me, their Scottish forebears having gone to England. This was before so many of us had personal computers, of course. I'll certainly follow up on your suggestion, for nothing ventured nothing gained. Note: I should add that the names is spelled variously: Skeffington, Skiffington, Skevington, Skivington, to compound the problem even more in trying to find Patrick! Thank you. Maisie

Hi again Maisie I was thinking!! since you've spent such a long time looking for Patrick Skeffington to no avail, it maybe would be worth your while checking out if parish records actually exist for the years you are searching. Many parishes didnt have records going back to early 1800s. If you go to the Proni website www.proni.gov.uk and click on the link for online guides and indexes, it will bring up in its list documents that show the Church of Ireland, Presbyterian and Roman Catholic parish records it has microfilmed for the whole of Ulster. It may well be that no records exist and you just have to accept that. However, there are still Skeffingtons in Co Tyrone, all mainly around the Dungannon area. Here's the list from the telephone directory: E SkeffingtonTel: (028) 8772 406960 Reaskmore Rd, Dungannon, BT70 1QF J SkeffingtonTel: (028) 8772 4612 8 Glebe Pk, Dungannon, BT70 3PS J SkeffingtonTel: (028) 9028 1282 127 Great Northern St, Belfast, BT9 7FL M SkeffingtonTel: (028) 8772 7085 27 Lisgallon Rd, Dungannon, BT70 1SW Martin J SkeffingtonTel: (028) 8774 8691 20 Knockmoy Pk, Coalisland, Dungannon, BT71 4LU N SkeffingtonTel: (028) 8774 0566 136 Annagher Rd, Coalisland, Dungannon, BT71 4NE O SkeffingtonTel: (028) 8774 61286 Dernmore Dv, Coalisland, Dungannon, BT71 4SL P SkeffingtonTel: (028) 8772 78774 Willow Clo, Dungannon, BT70 1XF R SkeffingtonTel: (028) 8772 929888A Reaskmore Rd, Dungannon, BT70 1QF S SkeffingtonTel: (028) 8772 5209229 Carnteel Rd, Dungannon, BT70 1PG S SkeffingtonTel: (028) 8774 978212 Clonmeen Cotts, Dungannon, BT71 5QN Sean SkeffingtonTel: (028) 8776 7680 10 Speers Pl, Dungannon, BT70 1TQ It may well be that writing to them might lead to someone connected to your ancestors. If you do decide to write, it's a good idea to enclose your email address. Many people might not bother writing a letter back, but there will be some who will be quite happy to send an email. Should you decide to write then may I offer you the best of luck in finding a connection. Theresa _________________________________________________________________ Twice the fun—Share photos while you chat with Windows Live Messenger. Learn more. http://www.microsoft.com/uk/windows/windowslive/products/messenger.aspx

Hi Yes, the images for Co Tyrone were already there for searching when Irish BMD Indexes came online. That was a bonus for us as no images were meant to be there, just the written record details. It stated clearly that there were no images so I think them being there was an error. NO other counties that I searched had images. Obviously, LDS realised the error and removed them. However, the details on the image were exactly what is in the written record details that are provided so nothing is really lost! Theresa _________________________________________________________________ Twice the fun—Share photos while you chat with Windows Live Messenger. Learn more. http://www.microsoft.com/uk/windows/windowslive/products/messenger.aspx

Hello to you all! I'm newly joined and just wanted to make my initial splash with a little info about me and my interest in County Tyrone. First of all, I know rather little about Ireland, so if you will all please pardon any unintentional gaffs... I live in the Pacific Northwest. My great-grandfather moved to Oregon from Ohio around 1900. His grandfather, Robert Brown, immigrated from Coagh, County Tyrone around 1800. After arriving in America, he married Sarah Ledlie. Robert Brown's parents were John Brown and Margaret Carson. John Brown's parents were William Brown and Isabella Campbell. Based upon family tradition, William was born about 1740 in County Tyrone, probably Coagh, and Isabella was born about 1744. There, the trail turns up cold. We have no idea who any of William's or Isabella's siblings or parents were. Family tradition states that William's great grandparents (unknown names) were Scotish Covenanters who immigrated under duress from Scotland sometime in the mid 1600s. If only we could bridge the Scotch-Irish Gap! I would love to eventually find my family roots back in Scotland! I recently discovered a couple of my long lost 4th cousins who have much the same information that I do, and the line ends with William Brown for them as well (I don't know if they are on this list... if they are, "hi" to Andy and Julie!). My cousin Andy visited Coagh a few years back and spoke to a number of Browns living in the area. I am very interested in pursuing the historical roots of the Browns of Coagh and surrounding areas. Any help or suggestion would be great. scott

There was a Rev. Skeffington attached to the Roman Catholic Church in Portrush, Co Antrim in 1916. Could he have been any connection to your Tree? Cyndy ___________ Thanks for this suggestion, Cyndy. One should never discount anything when it comes to genealogy, BUT, Patrick Skiffington was born around 1815 in Co. Tyrone, and that much I know for sure. I think he might have come to the USA in 1834, married in 1840, and died in 1863. Not wishing to pull the snob card, but I do believe he and his wife, Bridget Kelly, were illiterate, unlike the Reverend Skiffington who likely had to have had more than a modicum of education to become a priest. As I can't get Patrick "connected" to anyone in Ireland for sure, except that records say he was born in Co. Tyrone, I have no idea who might have been related to him, therefore. Thanks again for suggesting a possibility in Co. Antrim. (Two of my mother's great-grandmothers came from Belfast and Carrickfergus, respectively, then at some point ended up in Glasgow (Scotland, of course, not Kentucky!). I only discovered the "Irish connection" when I was an adult and had left home (Glasgow) for this side of the world, otherwise maybe I could have found out more about them when I was living at "home." Maisie

Hi Joy There is a picture of the Presbyterian church at: http://www.firstcookstown.co.uk/ It looks as if the Church of Ireland (Anglican) parish which covers Cookstown is Derryloran. Derryloran church is at http://www.derryloran.com/ See also http://www.rootschat.com/forum/index.php?PHPSESSID=fd80c6bc16149f2260c1f2a6d2470969&topic=71729.0 and http://www.ireland.anglican.org/ Incidentally, Cookstown reputedly has the widest street in Ireland; see http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cookstown Kevin ----- Original Message ----- From: "Joy Hogg" <joyhogghwh@yahoo.com> To: <cotyroneireland@rootsweb.com> Sent: Thursday, February 05, 2009 2:42 PM Subject: [CoTyIre] Familysearch.org - now what? Thanks for posting the address for the Irish indexes - Wow. I found lists, but need to know what one does next. There are indexes and I think one orders something but from whom, how and for how much? Are the docs on microfiche, film or something, and do they show much more than what is listed and we can see? And to our dear friend who will be visiting Tyrone - if you happen to be near Cookstown, please photograph the Anglican Church and/or the Presbyterian Church, if they are old. My Hoggs and Baynes are buried there...Also, just pics of the terrain, anything to enliven our dreary lists of who begat whom. One other request - does their library have a genealogy room and is there a name of someone to write who works at the library? Sometimes, for a fee, they will look up and send stuff which isn't yet online. I hope you have a wonderful trip and feel the friendship of all of us going there in spirit with you. Joy Hogg ------------- Our community web-site: http://freepages.genealogy.rootsweb.com/~cotyroneireland ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to COTYRONEIRELAND-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message

Hi Teena Robert has transcriptions of gravestones from Old Glendermott Graveyard on his free pages at Ulster Ancestry. You can go straight to the page using this link: http://www.ulsterancestry.com/ShowFreePage.php?id=223 I hope it is of use to you.Theresa _________________________________________________________________ Love Hotmail?  Check out the new services from Windows Live! http://clk.atdmt.com/UKM/go/132630768/direct/01/

When the Irish BMD Indexes first came on line, I viewed some of them and saw in the upper right hand corner of one page of files an icon to click on. When I clicked on that icon, a digital copy of the actual original page of the Irish index for that page appeared. The next day when I accessed the indexes, no icons were visible. Will the actual pages of the indexes eventually be linked to the index?

Hello Maisie, There was a Rev. Skeffington attached to the Roman Catholic Church in Portrush, Co Antrim in 1916. Could he have been any connection to your Tree? Cyndy _________________________________________________________________ Windows Live™: Keep your life in sync. http://windowslive.com/explore?ocid=TXT_TAGLM_WL_t1_allup_explore_022009

Thanks to all who are sending photos, etc. Yes, my husband's people are buried in the Cookstown New Cemetery.   My story is kind of neat. My husband's father, Ernest Hogg, died when my husband was 13, in Cleveland Ohio. Dave's mother sort of shut down from then on, and Dave and his sister knew very little about uncles and nothing about grandparents etc. They regret not persisting with their mother for information. But with the help of Ancestry.com, this list etc., I am finding them their heritage.Their dad came over to the USA in about 1920, and that's all they knew.   Dave has gone on from this kind of  adversity (although he never saw it that way) and put himself through law school, is now a judge, and we have raised several children. He did the fathering that was truncated for him. So this is the way I am thanking him, and now thanks to all of you for helping me. Joy  

Thanks for posting the address for the Irish indexes - Wow. I found lists, but need to know what one does next. There are indexes and I think one orders something but from whom, how and for how much? Are the docs on microfiche, film or something, and do they show much more than what is listed and we can see?   And to our dear friend who will be visiting Tyrone - if you happen to be near Cookstown, please photograph the Anglican Church and/or the Presbyterian Church, if they are old. My Hoggs and Baynes are buried there...Also, just pics of the terrain, anything to enliven our dreary lists of who begat whom. One other request - does their library have a genealogy room and is there a name of someone to write who works at the library? Sometimes, for a fee, they will look up and send stuff which isn't yet online.   I hope you have a wonderful trip and feel the friendship of all of us going there in spirit with you. Joy Hogg

Many thanks, Jim and Theresa, for the hints on how to try to find Patrick Skiffington (var. sp.). I haven't asked permission to acknowledge by name the lister who has been trying to document the where's and what's of my husband's great-grandfather, but she has been of great help in "sleuthing" on my behalf in response to my most recent query. However, she hasn't had any more success in "finding" him yet in Co. Tyrone than we with our 40 years slogging. My husband and I have been led to believe that Patrick Skiffington was born around 1815 in Donaghmore, but cannot get him rooted/documented there. We can almost say unequivocally that he came from Co. Tyrone, but where exactly we don't really know for sure; Donaghmore is open to conjecture, therefore. Also, as we do not know who his parents were or the names of any siblings, if any, we are completely stymied when we go to other websites, such as "familysearch," as suggested. If we just had parents' names, that might help, but all we have is his name, approximate date of birth, and then information after he came to the USA. Patrick and Bridget Kelly Skiffington's sons were John Joseph, James, Edward and Thomas Francis. The daughters: Mary Catherine, RoseAnna, and then Rose Ann (presumably Rose Anna died perhaps as an infant and the second one was named after her. All were born in Baltimore, Maryland, USA. I suppose any one of those listed in the applotment books could be related to him. We could jump to conclusions, therefore, that perhaps John, Donaghmore Moughan, could be his parent, or he could even be related to either of the Edwards, as Patrick and Bridget's sons were named similarly...but not Patrick after himself. If there was some way that I could find the names and dates of birth of (Co. Tyrone) John and Edward's children that might be a breakthrough. I'll have a go at "familysearch" to see if anything clicks. In the meantime, thanks to all who have responded to my query. Maisie, Go to: >> http://pilot.familysearch.org/recordsearch/start.html#p=2;t=searchable;c=1408347 Search for Skiffington in Tyrone and you'll get 300 of them. May not help directly but you may recognise forenames and using the naming patterns you could hit it lucky! This resource is just wonderful, opening up Irish research! Jim >> http://freepages.genealogy.rootsweb.com/~cotyroneireland > From: Theresa Forsyth <forsyththeresa@hotmail.com> > Subject: [CoTyIre] Skeffington, Co Tyrone > To: Mailing Tyrone <cotyroneireland@rootsweb.com> > Message-ID: <COL105-W44D6BF5AE01C644E1C2079DEC30@phx.gbl> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" > > > Hi Maisie > > I chacked the records at the Irish History Foundation website and only > found these in the indexes: > > Civil Birth Skiffinton Patrick 1826 Co. Tyrone Civil Birth > Skiffinton Patrick 1826 Co. Tyrone Church Baptism Skeffington Patrick > 1827 Co. Sligo > > It may not be the right Patrick Skeffingtons for you, as I imagine yours > was born before 1826 but could be related. > > > The tithe applotment books record the following Skeffingtons paying tithes > for land in Co Tyrone: > > > Arthur Skevington Tyrone, Tullyniskan, Mullaghmargret 1826 > > Francis Skevington Location: Tyrone, Tullyniskan, Edendork 1826 > > Francis Skevington Tyrone, Tullyniskan, Edendork 1826 > Peeter Skevington Tyrone, Tullyniskan, Edendork 1826 > Peter Skevington Tyrone, Tullyniskan, Sessagh 1826 > Bernard Skiffington Tyrone, Donaghmore, Tulleynure 1826 > Bernd. Skiffington Tyrone, Donaghmore, Foigh 1826 > Bernd. Skiffington Tyrone, Donaghmore, Tulleynure 1826 > Edwd. Skiffington Tyrone, Pomeroy, Lisnagleer 1829 > Hugh Skiffington Tyrone, Pomeroy, Gortfad 1829 > > John Skiffington Tyrone, Donaghmore, Moughan 1826 > Patt. Skiffington Tyrone, Pomeroy, Gortfad 1829 > Edwd. Skivington Tyrone, Tullyniskan, Cullion 1826 > John Skivington Tyrone, Tullyniskan, Lower Drumreagh 1826 > Jno. Skiffington Tyrone, Pomeroy, Gortfad 1829 > > > I know there is nothing concret for you but may help with parishes to look > at for yours as well as a few variant spellings of the surname to bear in > mind. > > Cheers > Theresa

I can find several likely ancestors or their relatives in the Longfield West listing on "Ask Ireland" and the "Details" lists the "Date of Printing". How does the "date printed" relate to when the data was gathered? And how does one find out the latter. Cheers Warren

Hi Maisie I chacked the records at the Irish History Foundation website and only found these in the indexes: Civil Birth Skiffinton Patrick 1826 Co. Tyrone Civil Birth Skiffinton Patrick 1826 Co. Tyrone Church Baptism Skeffington Patrick 1827 Co. Sligo It may not be the right Patrick Skeffingtons for you, as I imagine yours was born before 1826 but could be related. The tithe applotment books record the following Skeffingtons paying tithes for land in Co Tyrone: Arthur Skevington Tyrone, Tullyniskan, Mullaghmargret 1826 Francis Skevington Location: Tyrone, Tullyniskan, Edendork 1826 Francis Skevington Tyrone, Tullyniskan, Edendork 1826 Peeter Skevington Tyrone, Tullyniskan, Edendork 1826 Peter Skevington Tyrone, Tullyniskan, Sessagh 1826 Bernard Skiffington Tyrone, Donaghmore, Tulleynure 1826 Bernd. Skiffington Tyrone, Donaghmore, Foigh 1826 Bernd. Skiffington Tyrone, Donaghmore, Tulleynure 1826 Edwd. Skiffington Tyrone, Pomeroy, Lisnagleer 1829 Hugh Skiffington Tyrone, Pomeroy, Gortfad 1829 John Skiffington Tyrone, Donaghmore, Moughan 1826 Patt. Skiffington Tyrone, Pomeroy, Gortfad 1829 Edwd. Skivington Tyrone, Tullyniskan, Cullion 1826 John Skivington Tyrone, Tullyniskan, Lower Drumreagh 1826 Jno. Skiffington Tyrone, Pomeroy, Gortfad 1829 I know there is nothing concret for you but may help with parishes to look at for yours as well as a few variant spellings of the surname to bear in mind. Cheers Theresa _________________________________________________________________ Love Hotmail?  Check out the new services from Windows Live! http://clk.atdmt.com/UKM/go/132630768/direct/01/

Maisie, Go to: http://pilot.familysearch.org/recordsearch/start.html#p=2;t=searchable;c=1408347 Search for Skiffington in Tyrone and you'll get 300 of them. May not help directly but you may recognise forenames and using the naming patterns you could hit it lucky! This resource is just wonderful, opening up Irish research! Jim

I agree with my namesake, this is a wonderful resource that has been missing for so long, so thanks to Theresa and all the transcribers who have made it possible. Jim ----- Original Message ----- From: "Jim" <sionbhoy@gmail.com> To: "cotyroneireland-l" <cotyroneireland-l@rootsweb.com> Sent: Tuesday, February 03, 2009 11:57 PM Subject: [CoTyIre] Irish BMD Indexes Online > Maisie, > > Go to: > http://pilot.familysearch.org/recordsearch/start.html#p=2;t=searchable;c=1408347 > > Search for Skiffington in Tyrone and you'll get 300 of them. > May not help directly but you may recognise forenames and using the > naming patterns you could hit it lucky! > > > This resource is just wonderful, opening up Irish research! > > > > Jim > > ------------- > Our community web-site: > http://freepages.genealogy.rootsweb.com/~cotyroneireland > > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > COTYRONEIRELAND-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without > the quotes in the subject and the body of the message

Teena, Thank you for your detailed letter. I will bring it with me and try my best to do as you ask. But need to clarify... I need to get this letter of permission from the church then take to PRONI? And do I have to go to PRONI in person or can it be mailed - and forgive the newbie question, but where is PRONI? If it is in Belfast I won't be able to take it there in person because we are only there for 2 days 3 nights then onto London. We fly into Belfast in the evening then drive thru Tyrone and onto Londonderry. Then fly out to London for a few more days. Also, what's the correct protocol for asking the priest for this letter? And should I just go to every church I see and try to get this letter? Jill On 2/3/09, Teena <4theloveoftyrone@gmail.com> wrote: > Hi Jill > > Please keep in mind our Community web-site which goes hand-in-hand > with the mailing list, when it comes to photos and data. > > http://freepages.genealogy.rootsweb.ancestry.com/~cotyroneireland/index.html > > We would be *Thrilled* to post any photos that you take in Co. Tyrone. > This includes churches, headstones and signs of graveyards, old > businesses, and raths & stones. > > I've also heard that some of the pastors are really great about > allowing folks to look at their records and others are not. It seems > to be a hit and miss sort of thing. I will tell you though, that while > you are there, you can approach the pastors/priests etc and request > *written permission* (a must have) to allow you to have access to the > microfilms from the PRONI. It's sometimes impossible from afar to > obtain that written permission as many do not even bother to > acknowledge us (even with donations made to the church) depending on > the denomination of course. > > For Presbyterian records have a look on-line at > http://www.proni.gov.uk/presbyterian_church_index.pdf > > for Church of Ireland > http://www.proni.gov.uk/index_to_church_of_ireland_records-2.pdf > > and for RC > http://www.proni.gov.uk/index_to_roman_catholic_records-6.pdf > > If the church you are interested in, has been M/F, and you get > permission, you can then request that film from the PRONI. Make sure > you get a copy of the letter of permission, as they sometimes go > missing. When I last purchased a film, they were 13.50 (pounds). (If > you get permission while you're there, you can scoot to the PRONI and > save on taxes and duties, bringing them home. LOL > > If I could impose upon you (although I totally understand if you > forget all about me while you're there <VBG> I would very much like to > get ahold of a permission letter from the parish of Clondermot/ > aka(Glendermott) Many Co. Tyrone people attended Church there as it is > very close to the North West corner of Co Tyrone. One of DUNN'S of > Leckpatrick Parish married an ADAMS of Clondermot. I'm also > interested in any graveyard there. > > You'll likely be bombarded with requests, including me...but it's not > likely I'll get *back home*..... fighting cancer. (so far I am winning > that battle. We Irish are a tough lot) :-)) > > I hope some of my hints and tips prove fruitful for you. I wish you > safe travel and a blast. Enjoy!!! Teena > >> I am going to visit County Tyrone at the end of this month and would be >> glad >> to share my photos when I come home. We are starting in Belfast, driving >> through Tyrone and ending in Londonderry. If anyone has any suggestions >> about sites to see please let me know. Also, I read on the list from >> another poster that it is hard to find a church or a place you can go >> into >> to look up records...is this also the case with Tyrone? >> Jill Wilson >> >> ------------- >> Our community web-site: >> http://freepages.genealogy.rootsweb.com/~cotyroneireland >> >> >> ------------------------------- >> To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to >> COTYRONEIRELAND-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without >> the quotes in the subject and the body of the message >> > -- Sent from my mobile device Jill Wilson

Hi Brenda, I'll be sending information derived from "The Celtic World" later tonight or tomorrow depending when I complete my transcription. Hopefully, information provided will answer your question. As you will see there is not a distinct dividing line between various ethnic groups. Cheers, Denis On Feb 3, 2009, at 8:26 PM, Brendan McClean wrote: > Is there any research out there that determines if Celtic peoples > and Germanic peoples are really on and the same? Esp. the Southern > Rhine land Germanic Tribes of lower (Alpine) Germany. > > On Tue, Feb 3, 2009 at 8:17 PM, Genealogy <dkbeachfam@aol.com> wrote: > Thanks Loretta, > > I'll check on availability and purchase your recommended book. It is > great to know that different authors came to similar or the same > conclusion regarding Celtic migration. I have Germanic lineage, too, > and am interested in determining if they are Celtic or Germanic in > origin, my goal is to locate a living male descendent who is willing > to submit a DNA sample for testing. > > Denis > > On Feb 3, 2009, at 7:23 PM, Loretta wrote: > > > Thanks Denis. Sounds like I have another good book to buy. On the > > same > > topic, another great book is "Saxons, Vikings and Celts - the > > Genetic Roots > > of Britain and Ireland" by Brian Sykes, Professor of Human > Genetics at > > Oxford Univerity. It's the result of a large DNA study of Ireland, > > Scotland, Wales, and England conducted by Oxford. It says > > basically what > > you're saying - that the Celts came to Ireland and Britain from > > continental > > Europe and, furthermore, that they were for a time the predominent > > people on > > the European continent. So your conclusion is also right - that > > people from > > Germany are just as likely to be Celts as Germanic. > > > > Loretta > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: Genealogy [mailto:dkbeachfam@aol.com] > > Sent: Tuesday, February 03, 2009 11:57 AM > > To: Elizabeth Cunningham > > Cc: Loretta; FERMANAGH-GOLD-L@rootsweb.com; > > cotyroneireland@rootsweb.com > > Subject: Re: [CoTyIre] Celtic eyes & Toes > > > > > > If any are interested in pursuing Celtic heritage and the > > geographical location of various Celtic Tribes, I would recommend > > reading "The Celtic World" edited by Mirand J. Green. The is book > > relates to almost all geographic locations where Celts were located, > > which may surprise many as they were located in Europe prior to > > Ireland, Wales, and England. Many tribes were located on the Rhine > > River Valley of present day Germany. One may find they have a Celtic > > lineage not Germanic or both if ancestors came from this region of > > Europe. > > > > Denis > > > > This book should be available in most libraries or via inter-library > > loan. It is a large text, 813 pages in hard bound edition. > > ISBN 0-415-05764-7 (hbk) > > ISBN 0-415-14627-5 (pbk) > > > > Denis > > > > On Feb 3, 2009, at 11:45 AM, Elizabeth Cunningham wrote: > > > >> Just about all my ancestors are German, and an aunt said that > >> having a > >> second toe larger than the first "was proof I was an Ault" So I > don't > >> know about the Celtic part. > >> > >> Elizabeth C > >> > > > ------------- > Our community web-site: http://freepages.genealogy.rootsweb.com/ > ~cotyroneireland > > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > COTYRONEIRELAND-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' > without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message >

Thanks Loretta, I'll check on availability and purchase your recommended book. It is great to know that different authors came to similar or the same conclusion regarding Celtic migration. I have Germanic lineage, too, and am interested in determining if they are Celtic or Germanic in origin, my goal is to locate a living male descendent who is willing to submit a DNA sample for testing. Denis On Feb 3, 2009, at 7:23 PM, Loretta wrote: > Thanks Denis. Sounds like I have another good book to buy. On the > same > topic, another great book is "Saxons, Vikings and Celts - the > Genetic Roots > of Britain and Ireland" by Brian Sykes, Professor of Human Genetics at > Oxford Univerity. It's the result of a large DNA study of Ireland, > Scotland, Wales, and England conducted by Oxford. It says > basically what > you're saying - that the Celts came to Ireland and Britain from > continental > Europe and, furthermore, that they were for a time the predominent > people on > the European continent. So your conclusion is also right - that > people from > Germany are just as likely to be Celts as Germanic. > > Loretta > > -----Original Message----- > From: Genealogy [mailto:dkbeachfam@aol.com] > Sent: Tuesday, February 03, 2009 11:57 AM > To: Elizabeth Cunningham > Cc: Loretta; FERMANAGH-GOLD-L@rootsweb.com; > cotyroneireland@rootsweb.com > Subject: Re: [CoTyIre] Celtic eyes & Toes > > > If any are interested in pursuing Celtic heritage and the > geographical location of various Celtic Tribes, I would recommend > reading "The Celtic World" edited by Mirand J. Green. The is book > relates to almost all geographic locations where Celts were located, > which may surprise many as they were located in Europe prior to > Ireland, Wales, and England. Many tribes were located on the Rhine > River Valley of present day Germany. One may find they have a Celtic > lineage not Germanic or both if ancestors came from this region of > Europe. > > Denis > > This book should be available in most libraries or via inter-library > loan. It is a large text, 813 pages in hard bound edition. > ISBN 0-415-05764-7 (hbk) > ISBN 0-415-14627-5 (pbk) > > Denis > > On Feb 3, 2009, at 11:45 AM, Elizabeth Cunningham wrote: > >> Just about all my ancestors are German, and an aunt said that >> having a >> second toe larger than the first "was proof I was an Ault" So I don't >> know about the Celtic part. >> >> Elizabeth C >>

He didn't need to read or write to have records! "the Diocese of Armagh" = Waste of time!! Baltimore is your better bet! Maisie Egger wrote: > Good morning, listers, > > I continue my over forty-year odyssey to try to document whether my husband's great-grandfather Patrick Skiffington actually came from Donaghmore, Co. Tyrone, and who his parents and siblings might have been. I can't find a paper trail, and what compounds _*the problem is that I fear Patrick was most likely illiterate.*_ > > Our short visit to the canon's office of the local R.C. church in Donaghmore, contacts with two genealogy sources, for which a payment was required (!), and much input from many kind people on the different lists, have resulted in nothing tangible. > > The closest I've come to is the possibility of a Pat. Skiffington, Ireland (no other information), listed as a passenger on the Jane Walker 1834, but this is all prior to 1840 when we have confirmation of Patrick Skiffington's marriage to Bridget Kelly (Ireland) in 1840 in the The Basilica of the Blessed Assumption, Baltimore, Maryland. > > I seem not to have the Midas touch because I have received no reply from the Diocese of Armagh, which was suggested to me as the repository of Catholic records, or a church in Baltimore which should have the records of the baptismal records of the children of Patrick and Bridget Kelly Skiffington, presumably. > > We have nothing pre Patrick Skiffington's life in Baltimore, Maryland, USA, except for some bits and dabs of information about the movements of him and Bridget Kelly Skiffington in and around Baltimore after his marriage in this country. > > We have copies of Bridget's application for a widow's U.S. Civil War army pension, which took three years to resolve. Patrick Skiffington had sustained injuries when he fell on his bayonet during a retreat from either Antietam or Williamsport in 1863 and died six months later in his home in Baltimore. > > We have a list of their children, one of whom, Edward, also served in the Civil War. After Patrick died, he and Bridget (Patrick's widow) bounced around a few addresses in Baltimore, and then I believe they moved to New York perhaps to be near one of her daughters. Searches of cemeteries for Bridget's burial place were futile, but Edward's remains were returned from N.Y., to be interred in New Cathedral Cemetery, Baltimore, but not in the same lair as his father Patrick Skiffington. Nothing to grab on to there either. > > Those who tried to help me in my search agree that it's like flogging a dead horse and maybe I just have to reconcile myself to the fact that I am lucky to have details of Patrick Skiffington's marriage in 1840 (the marriage certificate is short and sweet, birthplace Ireland, no parents listed, and no indication of whether the witnesses might have been related, etc.). In addition, we do have the Civil War widow's pension papers, but again, Patrick Skiffington's birthplace is listed as Ireland, with no other details. There is a physical description, but nothing that would help us to "find" him in Ireland. > > As you can imagine, I have been uphill and down dale, and am submitting this "anecdote" again, in the hope that perhaps someone can suggest a resource I have not yet tapped into to confirm that Patrick Skiffington was born in Donaghmore, and beyond that who his parents might have been and any siblings. > > In appreciation, > > Maisie > > ------------- > Our community web-site: http://freepages.genealogy.rootsweb.com/~cotyroneireland > > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to COTYRONEIRELAND-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message > > > --- > avast! Antivirus: Inbound message clean. > Virus Database (VPS): 090203-0, 03/02/2009 > Tested on: 03/02/2009 19:28:40 > avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2009 ALWIL Software. > http://www.avast.com > > > > >