Having been on this list several years, I too remember all the controvercy over the supposed "closed" records and the different reasons for it, but my contention has always been that money was just a front for the real reason for the closed records. Yes it's true that their fees were a bit much which gave the impression that they saw us researchers as a "gold mine", but in further research some of us uncovered another reason, that many catholic authorities view genealogists as mormons, and thus protestants. Therefore some in the church do not want "their" records to be viewed/abused by "protestants". In other nations where the catholic church "owns" the records they make no bones about it. If you are a "genealogist" you are a protestant and thus records are "lost, burned, destroyed in war, closed, etc" (sound familiar). This is true in Spain and Mexico. I have posted this theory over the years and many agree that there is something to it, but some get offended thinking I am somehow insulting mormonism because one reason some catholics do not like mormons viewing "their" records is the idea that mormons use these records to "pray our ancestors into their version of heaven" and that also offends some. Frankly, I don't care what the mormon church does with the records as long as I can have access to them. Dan Hogan Searching Hogan/Mullally/Cummins/O'Meara in Tipperary/Offaly --- Carmen DiGiacomo <tippfado@verizon.net> wrote: > Money may have been a reason, but that still doesn't > translate to lining > "his" pockets. > > Carmen-Pittsburgh > > These suspicions go back many years. I'm sure that > many new people whom > > have come aboard in the past five years probably > never heard about the AB > > closing the books and threatening to sue anyone > who posted copies of > > material under his control. > > > > Put another way, the only possible motive to close > records had to be > > money. > > > > -- > > don kelly Dan Hogan hogan-4@sbcglobal.net Enjoy the updated website for the Civil War Reenactment Society: www.cwrs.info !

Although it is the Archbishop being berated it is his priests that I am defending as they hold the registers not the Archbishop. I dont often wade into these debates on certain matters, but having spent a lot of time in Ireland, and having grown to know many Priests and I am talking RC, and being who I am, I am not afraid to ask the question why was some registers locked and others open, ( without having to get permission to view them at the NLI) I might add it was no bother to get the permission to view these records at any time, that I have approached the person in charge. Even at his church, and I have been left alone with registers, I am not one of those persons who cuts pages out of these registers and takes the whole lot, for others not to be able to see what was there in the records ( and yes this did happen and in this era not a past era) There reasons may seem tardy to some, but I have never had a Priest ask me for a fee to view his registers, now I may be out of line here, but I am finding, the reference to them viewing me as a Protestant or a Mormon, quite fankly as off putting, I have never been treated like this by any of he clergymen I have dealt with, but with one exception and that was at a RC Church in Wicklow, when I discovered that a safe held ALL not some of the registers for that area, I asked to many questions, and found this out, the Records held there are of the Rathdrum Workhouse and it was purely snobbery of living ancestors that kept those registers closed, and the reason this priest became agitated was, in fact, the fact that I challenged his right to hide the ancestors in a safe, we are not responsible for the persons who died in sad circumstances, we do not condem is what I said. but it got me short shifted from the Church. But I find the reasons are stale now for what ever reason the *registers were locked* why take the time to go rake over cold ashes, when the registers are now available, I think that the present reason in Ireland about Identity theft is more worrying than being blessed by some other churches religion. I have always maintained that the records in these registers, belong to the ancestors, they were paid for to be recorded by the church so I also believe they should not be sold back to the ancestors of today, in fact if I could have my way, all records would be freely available to all, just as Janet is sharing now with her hard work, compiled over the years. But I object to being *viewed as a Protestant or Mormon* and I am stating here I have never come across that in all my times of dealing with cranky Parish Priests, even the old dear at Rathdrum, didnt view me as a Protestant or a Mormon, after all he couldnt he didnt know what religion I was it was never discussed. Cara Toole

Hi Cara, I see that you, as many have in the past, misunderstood my explanation of one of the possible reasons for the "closed" records in Ireland. First I said some Catholic authorities held these viewpoints, I did not say that all nor most. I too have had esperience with clergy who did not want unknowns to view "their" records and after a bit of discussion and probing, they admitted that the records were not "destroyed, burnt, lost", but that they did not want "outsiders" to see them. As I posted, in other coutries like Mexico and Spain, they admit that to them, a genealogist is a mormon and they won't even respond to your inquiry. I am simply stating that this way of thinking by the catholic church (as a whole) could be a reason for the "cranky priests" and "closed records". I have done extensive research on this subject and I'm not just stating this without input from many other researchers on Irish/Spanish/Mexican/Catholic lists. Some Catholic authorities are not going to admit they are descriminating against "protestants". So they use other methods and terms. I would state that the mere fact thet you were denied access to the records after the priest admitted he had the records in his safe indicated he viewed you as someone not worthy to see them, an "outsider", or perhaps a "non-Catholic"? These are the terms they have used on others. Dan Hogan --- Cara_Links <cracker@hotkey.net.au> wrote: > Although it is the Archbishop being berated it is > his priests that I am > defending as they hold the registers not the > Archbishop. > > I dont often wade into these debates on certain > matters, but having spent a > lot of time in Ireland, and having grown to know > many Priests and I am > talking RC, and being who I am, I am not afraid to > ask the question why was > some registers locked and others open, ( without > having to get permission to > view them at the NLI) I might add it was no bother > to get the permission to > view these records at any time, that I have > approached the person in charge. > Even at his church, and I have been left alone with > registers, I am not one > of those persons who cuts pages out of these > registers and takes the whole > lot, for others not to be able to see what was there > in the records ( and > yes this did happen and in this era not a past era) > > There reasons may seem tardy to some, but I have > never had a Priest ask me > for a fee to view his registers, now I may be out of > line here, but I am > finding, the reference to them viewing me as a > Protestant or a Mormon, quite > fankly as off putting, I have never been treated > like this by any of he > clergymen I have dealt with, but with one exception > and that was at a RC > Church in Wicklow, when I discovered that a safe > held ALL not some of the > registers for that area, I asked to many questions, > and found this out, the > Records held there are of the Rathdrum Workhouse and > it was purely snobbery > of living ancestors that kept those registers > closed, and the reason this > priest became agitated was, in fact, the fact that I > challenged his right to > hide the ancestors in a safe, we are not responsible > for the persons who > died in sad circumstances, we do not condem is what > I said. but it got me > short shifted from the Church. > > But I find the reasons are stale now for what ever > reason the *registers > were locked* why take the time to go rake over cold > ashes, when the > registers are now available, I think that the > present > reason in Ireland about Identity theft is more > worrying than being blessed > by some other churches religion. > > I have always maintained that the records in these > registers, belong to the > ancestors, they were paid for to be recorded by the > church so I also believe > they should not be sold back to the ancestors of > today, in fact if I could > have my way, all records would be freely available > to all, just as Janet is > sharing now with her hard work, compiled over the > years. > > But I object to being *viewed as a Protestant or > Mormon* and I am stating > here I have never come across that in all my times > of dealing with cranky > Parish Priests, even the old dear at Rathdrum, > didnt view me as a > Protestant or a Mormon, after all he couldnt he > didnt know what religion I > was it was never discussed. > Cara Toole Dan Hogan hogan-4@sbcglobal.net Enjoy the updated website for the Civil War Reenactment Society: www.cwrs.info !