I think we owe His Grace a vote of thanks. Every time the list has gotten quiet over the past 10 years someone brings up the issue of access to church records and things do hot up. The idea that church records are 'public records' is misleading. Church records are not public at all but are, in fact, a private list of members of the church and their legal status in the church. The baptismal records are amended to show receipt of Confirmation, Marriage and/or Holy Orders. Prior to receiving one of the latter sacraments in a parish other than the one an individual was baptized in, a recent Baptismal Certificate must be provided. It will indicate what sacraments have been received by the individual. A case could be made under Canon Law that the bishops who have opened up their records are in violation of Canon 535 §4 that provides "The pastor is to take care that all of these things .. do not come into the hands of outsiders." (See below) Whilst I admit that non-access can be a major stumbling block I have found that the priests in the diocese are rather used to the annual influx of 'roots hunting' individuals and are helpful in researching their own records. On the other hand, TFHR provided me the clues I need to add two generations to my family and a visit to Ardmayle cemetery brought up a third. I have found that the only draw back for me is not being able to actually touch the original records, but then they are all secure in His Grace's archive. Another aspect of His Grace's blessings are the kind soul's like Janet who have turned the list into a labour of love and spent countless hours pouring through documents at the National Library and other places obtaining reams of glorious tidbits about our ancestors. Fair dues Janet! Can. 535 §1. Each parish is to have parochial registers, that is, those of baptisms, marriages, deaths, and others as prescribed by the conference of bishops or the diocesan bishop. The pastor is to see to it that these registers are accurately inscribed and carefully preserved. §2. In the baptismal register are also to be noted confirmation and those things which pertain to the canonical status of the Christian faithful by reason of marriage, without prejudice to the prescript of can. 1133, of adoption, of the reception of sacred orders, of perpetual profession made in a religious institute, and of change of rite. These notations are always to be noted on a baptismal certificate. §3. Each parish is to have its own seal. Documents regarding the canonical status of the Christian faithful and all acts which can have juridic importance are to be signed by the pastor or his delegate and sealed with the parochial seal. §4. In each parish there is to be a storage area, or archive, in which the parochial registers are protected along with letters of bishops and other documents which are to be preserved for reason of necessity or advantage. The pastor is to take care that all of these things, which are to be inspected by the diocesan bishop or his delegate at the time of visitation or at some other opportune time, do not come into the hands of outsiders. Lou Burgess -- I am using the free version of SPAMfighter for private users. It has removed 1190 spam emails to date. Paying users do not have this message in their emails. Get the free SPAMfighter here: http://www.spamfighter.com/len

...under Canon Law that the bishops who have opened up their ecords are in violation of Canon 535 §4 that provides "The pastor is to take are that all of these things .. do not come into the hands of outsiders." Hi! Hasn't his Grace already blatantly handed the parishes records over to TFHR, an oursider -- to make a profit? I know that TFHR is not part of the diocese. Other dioceses have opened their archives. I am sure there are safeguards to make sure the records are not stolen or mutilated in those dioceses! Joe The holder of about 50 pages of nothing!!!! -----Original Message----- From: Lugaid Brugha <ei2je@eircom.net> To: cotipperary@rootsweb.com Sent: Thu, 20 Mar 2008 1:02 pm Subject: Re: [COTIPPERARY] RC C & E records & IFHF - not I think we owe His Grace a vote of thanks. Every time the list has gotten quiet ver the past 10 years someone brings up the issue of access to church records nd things do hot up. The idea that church records are 'public records' is misleading. Church records re not public at all but are, in fact, a private list of members of the church nd their legal status in the church. The baptismal records are amended to show eceipt of Confirmation, Marriage and/or Holy Orders. Prior to receiving one of he latter sacraments in a parish other than the one an individual was baptized n, a recent Baptismal Certificate must be provided. It will indicate what acraments have been received by the individual. A case could be made under Canon Law that the bishops who have opened up their ecords are in violation of Canon 535 §4 that provides "The pastor is to take are that all of these things .. do not come into the hands of outsiders." (See elow) Whilst I admit that non-access can be a major stumbling block I have found that he priests in the diocese are rather used to the annual influx of 'roots unting' individuals and are helpful in researching their own records. On the ther hand, TFHR provided me the clues I need to add two generations to my amily and a visit to Ardmayle cemetery brought up a third. I have found that the only draw back for me is not being able to actually touch he original records, but then they are all secure in His Grace's archive. Another aspect of His Grace's blessings are the kind soul's like Janet who have urned the list into a labour of love and spent countless hours pouring through ocuments at the National Library and other places obtaining reams of glorious idbits about our ancestors. Fair dues Janet! Can. 535 §1. Each parish is to have parochial registers, that is, those of aptisms, marriages, deaths, and others as prescribed by the conference of ishops or the diocesan bishop. The pastor is to see to it that these registers re accurately inscribed and carefully preserved. §2. In the baptismal register are also to be noted confirmation and those things hich pertain to the canonical status of the Christian faithful by reason of arriage, without prejudice to the prescript of can. 1133, of adoption, of the eception of sacred orders, of perpetual profession made in a religious nstitute, and of change of rite. These notations are always to be noted on a aptismal certificate. §3. Each parish is to have its own seal. Documents regarding the canonical tatus of the Christian faithful and all acts which can have juridic importance re to be signed by the pastor or his delegate and sealed with the parochial eal. §4. In each parish there is to be a storage area, or archive, in which the arochial registers are protected along with letters of bishops and other ocuments which are to be preserved for reason of necessity or advantage. The astor is to take care that all of these things, which are to be inspected by he diocesan bishop or his delegate at the time of visitation or at some other pportune time, do not come into the hands of outsiders. Lou Burgess - am using the free version of SPAMfighter for private users. t has removed 1190 spam emails to date. aying users do not have this message in their emails. et the free SPAMfighter here: http://www.spamfighter.com/len ------------------------------ o unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to COTIPPERARY-request@rootsweb.com ith the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of he message