1876 cont'd William of Owen/Eugene Keefe & Bridget Barragry Anne of John Ryan & Bridget Moloney Bridget of Michael Whelan and Margaret Barry Catherine of William Butler and Bridget Mahony William of Patrick Moloney and Kate Ryan William of John Finnan and Alice Ryan Anne of William Hanley and Mary Riordon Margaret* of Thomas Birrane [Templebraden] and Anne Hatchford/Latchford?. Thomas of Luke Hally and Mary Fitzgerald James of Thomas Sheehan and Kate Ryan Anne of William Condon and Anne Dwyer Margaret of Patrick Dwyer and Bridget Heffernan Honora of Patrick Burns and Joanna Donohue Ellen of John Casey and Alice Keily Michael of John Conway and Kate McCormack Margaret of Patrick Ryan and Kate Humphries Patrick of Thomas Burns and Margaret Hayes Timothy of William Carroll and Mary O'Brien Mary of William Keily and Anastasia Crowe Anne of John Crowe and Cath Keily Thomas of John Ryan and Joanna Hogan Margaret of Timothy Dwyer and Margaret Heffernan Thomas of John Humphries and Margaret McGrath Denis of James Greene and Margaret Hogan [Killea] Marianne of Thomas Power and Mary Flynn George Joseph of Daniel Noonan and Sarah Wall [Longstone] Winifred of Denis Humphries and Margaret Dwyer [Longstone] Margaret of Matthew Hogan and Joanna Breasil [Glenbane] Thomas of James Nash and Julia O'Brien [Shronell] Laurence of Daniel Daly and Honora Fleming? ] Michael of Michael Hayes and Joanna Kinnane [Shronell] Catherine of Constable James Hoare and Bridget Fitzgerald [Glenbane (Barracks)] 1876 end

1876 Joseph of John Danaher and Margaret Cronin Cornelius of John Ryan and Sarah Batters Bridget of Elly/Ally/Ailbe Fitzgerald and Honora Breen/Brien Julia of James Hore and Bridget Fitzgerald John of John Barragry and Mary O'Brien Margaret of Thomas Bradshaw and Anne Bradshaw Michael of Denis McCarthy and Mary McGrath Joanna of Thomas Frewen and Mary A. Walsh Patrick of Matthew Maher and Ellen Heffernan Jeremiah of John Russell and Joanna Crowe Bridget of Tim Danaher and Joanna Gavin Denis of Henry O'Brien and Ellen Elligot Timothy of Rody Riordon and Mary Dunne Catherine of Patrick Riordon and Bridget Dwyer Elizabeth of Robert Casey and Amilia McGrath William of John Crowe and Margaret Hayes Michael of Edmund Looly/Luby?/Gilhooly? and Mary McGrath Patrick of John Hogan and Bridget Meehan Alice of William Connell and Mary Dwyer Catherine of Michael Ryan and Alice Ryan Elizabeth of Martin Ryan and Ellen Hourigan William of John Hourigan and Elizabeth Bircury/Barragry Eugene/Owen of Daniel O'Neill and Ellen Dunne Edmund of Timothy Donovan & Margaret Ryan Joanna of Edmund Fahy & Ellen Dempsey Martin of Patrick Crowe and Margaret Ryan Anne of Patrick Hogan and Bridget Rafferty Margaret of Edmund Darmody and Mary Griffin Bridget of John Ryan and Bridget Mahony Catherine of William Power and Mary Butler Ellen of Denis O'Donnell and Bridget Dwyer Ellen of Edmund Keating and Bridget Humphries Pat of Patrick Downey and Alice Cosgrave Joanna of Patrick Carroll and Joanna White James of Patrick Griffin and Margaret Horan Thomas of Michael Hogan and Joanna Breen/Brien Michael of Patrick Donohue and Ellen Noonan Mary of John Green and Bridget Crawford Michael of Michael Greene and Ellen Murphy Honara of John Moloney and Grace O'Neill Thomas of Ger McCarthy and Margaret Trihy Ellen of John Burke and Margaret Hourigan William of James O'Donnell and Ellen Corbett John of John Barlow and Julia Ford John of Thomas Leahy and Honora Looby/Luby Mary of Patrick Quirke and Mary Guinan John of Timothy Russell and Margaret Kelly Honora of John Fitzgerald and Bridget Burns Roger of Greorge Clancy & Elizabeth Hogan To be cont'd

1875 cont'd Mary of Michael O'Donnell & Mary Mulcahy David of David O'Connell & Mary Guerin Margaret of John Butler & Sarah Ryan Mary of Patrick Ryan & Kate Murphy Michael of Michael Londun/Lonergan & Mary Fleming Michael of James Heffernan & Mary Heffernan Margaret of James Carroll & Mary O'Brien Patrick of Thomas O'Gorman & Honora Meehan Michael of William Calaghan & Mary McCormack Anne of Thomas Burke & Honora Coughlan Christopher of Christopher Russell & Honora Hogan Bridget of Edmund Hourigan & Margaret O'Brien William of James Heffernan & Kate Dwyer Anne of John O'Donnell & Fanny McCarty Patrick of Denis Quinlan & Mary Ryan Margaret of Thomas Horan & Mary Hayes Daniel of William Carroll & Mary O'Brien Michael of Michael Gleeson & Anne Leamy Margaret of John Fleming & Alice Slattery John of James Fahey & Kate Dunne William of Thomas Gleeson & Mary Looby/Luby Margaret of Patrick Deeley/Delaney? & Sarah Mahoney Anne of Jer Sullivan & Bridget McCormack Mary of David Leahy & Margaret McGrath William of Richard Hoare & Kate Ryan Rodger of Jer. Maher & Mary Hogan Mary of Daniel Conway & Bridget Kirby Catherine of John Burke & Elizabeth Fitzgerald Peter of Kennedy Toomy & Ellen Looby/Luby Bridget of James Quinn & Mary Sullivan Ellen of Stephen Hogan & Ellen Sullivan Eliza of Patrick Keily & Mary Woods Philip of James Ryan & Catherine Dwyer Joanna* of Pat. Kennedy [Tipperary] & Joanna Ahern Lucy of James Whitaker & Cecilia Ward 1875 end

1875 cont'd Elizabeth of John Greene & Margaret Dwyer Mary of John Tierney & Mary Commons/Cummins Honora of John Lillis & Julia Barragry Ellen of Thomas Dwyer & Julia Coffey Honora of Garret Hayes & Honora Russell Honora of Edmund Hanley & Bridget Maher Anne of Daniel McCarthy & Bridget Donovan William of William Butler & Mary Humphreys Michael of William Carroll & Margaret Walsh John of Patrick Franklin & Joanna O'Brien Peter of John Meager/Maher & Alice Looby/Luby William of Thomas Ryan & Catherine Daly Patrick of Timothy Murnane & Ellen Ryan Edmund of Laurence Lonergan & Mary Carroll Honora of Gerald Fitzgerald & Ellen Ryan Timothy of John Barlow & Mary Butler Bridget of Thomas Quinlan & Kate Dwyer Margaret of Bryan Kelly & Julia Dunne Joseph of Joseph Cleary & Margaret Rafferty William of John Looby/Luby & Mary Leahy Margaret of Edmund Dwyer & Anatasia Keily Mary of Denis Keogh & Mary Finnan Bridget of William Finnan & Mary Kinnane Daniel of Edmund Burns & Joanna Conway Catherine of Andy Ryan & Joanna O'Brien Edmund of Denis Burns & Mary Ryan Thomas of Patrick Ryan & Bridget Ryan Joanna of Mathew Hogan & Joanna Breasil Honora of Barth. Griffith & Honora Ryan Ellen of John Ryan & Mary Higgins Edmund of Thomas Mahoney & Maria McGrath Patrick of Patrick Barlow & Mary Hayes Anne of John Leahy & Mary Burns To be cont'd

1875 John of James Donovan & Margaret Ryan Bridget of Henry O'Brien & Ellen Elligot/Elliot Catherine of Thomas Sheehan & Kate Ryan Mary of James Hoare O'Brien & Bridget Fitzgerald Margaret of John Corboy/Kirby & Mary Dowdle Margaret of Patrick Murphy & Mary Doyle Patrick of William Quinn & Catherine Connoll Patrick of John Hannon & Honora Walsh Bridget of John Mulcahy & Mary Corrigan John of Thomas Power & Mary Flynn John of Michael Hayes & Joanna Kinnane Philip of Patrick Harty/Harding & Elizabeth McCormack Catherine of James Hennessey & Mary Lovitt Anne of Patrick Donohoe & Ellen Noonan James* of James Finnan & Kate Hourigan Catherine of Patrick Delany & Bridget O'Donnell Joanna of Christopher Russell & Bridget Dillon Anne of Patrick Moloney & Catherine Ryan Michael of John Greene & Bridget Crawford Patrick of Edmund Darmody & Mary Griffith James of William Hourigan & Bridget Hayes Bryan of John Ryan? & Catherine O'Donnell John of John Burke & Margaret Hourigan Catherine of James O'Donohoe & Catherine Keily Mary of Thomas Kane/Keane & Mary Whelan Mary of James Crotty & Elizabeth Hanley Thomas of Thomas Ryan & Deborah Caplis Ellen of James Humphreys & Catherine Riordan Ellen of Pat? Daly & Mary O'Brien Mary of James Dwyer & Margaret Heffernan William of Denis Ryan & Winifred Hiereen/Herrin John of Thomas Burns & Margaret Hayes Michael of James O'Donnell & Margaret Condon Edmund of William Hanley & Mary Riordan Jeremiah of Jeremiah Cooney & Joanna Hogan Joanna of Patrick Quinn & Ellen Ryan Anne of John Hally & Margaret Hourigan To be cont'd

1874 cont'd John of Thos. Frewen & Mary Anne Walsh John of Robert Casey & Amelia McGrath Catherine of Patrick Conway & Margaret Hayes Michael of Michael Ryan & Alice Ryan Timothy of Thomas Leahy & Honora Looby/Luby Johanna of Owen/Eugene Keefe & Bridget Barragry Michael of John Russell & Johanna Crowe Edmund of James O'Donnell & Ellen Corbitt Thomas of Cornelius Moloney & Bridget Keefe Denis of John Ryan & Johanna Hogan Anne of Thomas Nihill & Johanna Ryan Ellen of James Ryan & Kate Dwyer Sarah of Patrick Riordan & Bridget Dwyer Jeremiah of Michael Greene & Ellen Murphy Bridget of William Power & Mary Butler Philip of William Connoll & Ellen Flynn James of George Cleary & Elizabeth Hogan Martin of John Conway & Kate Cormack Thomas of Patrick Burns & Joanna Donohue Margaret of John Gyane/Guinane & Honora Joy/Joyce James of James Greene & Margaret Hogan Joanna of Edmund Finnan & Joanna Furlong Margaret of James Fahey & Kate Dunne John of John Dwyer & Anne Spillane Honora of Edmund Looby/Luby & Mary McGrath David of David Burke & Honora Ryan Elizabeth of James Dwyer & Elizabeth Daniher Bridget of John Ryan & Johanna Harding John of Michael Riordan & Anne Murphy Mary of John Barlow & Julia Ford Ellen of Patrick Hogan & Bridget Rafferty 1874 end

1874 cont'd Daniel of Patrick Horan & Kate Gorman Margaret of Michael Butler & Mary Humphrey Ellen of John Crowe & Kate Keily Mary of John Burke & Elizabeth Fitzgerald Mary of Denis O'Donnell & Bridget Dwyer Ellen of John Crowe & Margaret Hayes Ellen of John Finnan & Bridget Leamy Cornelius of Cornelius Mulcahy & Lucy Birrane William of Patrick Barlow & Mary Hayes John of Jerry Looby/Luby & Mary Toomey Margaret of John Hanarahan & Margaret Ryan Mary of Patrick Carty/Carthy & Bgt. Birrane Patrick of Denis Moroney & Ellen Brien Mary of Thomas Bradshaw & Ellen Brien Edmund of John Finnan & Alice Ryan Bridget? of Thomas Quinlan/Quillinan & Kate Dwyer John of John Connolly & Mary Kinane Joseph of Thomas Burke & Honora Coughlan [Clerkstown] Margaret of Mathew Harty/Harding & Ellen Ryan Philip of Thomas McGrath & Mary Purcell Margaret of James Heffernan & Kate Dwyer Ellen of Rody/Roger Riordon & Mary Dunne Patrick of Patrick Keily & Joanna Dunne Denis of John Humphreys & Margaret McGrath Margaret of William Butler & Bridget Mahony John of Patrick Keily & Mary Woods Bridget of William Merrigan & Joanna Quirke James of James Keating & Margaret Looby/Luby James of Edmund Dwyer & Anastasia Keily Catherine of Jerry McCarthy & Margaret Trihy Ellen of John Farrell & Mary Dwyer Thomas of John Casey & Alice O'Donnell Thomas of Edmund Fitzgerald & Bridget Maher Mary of John Hogan & Bridget Meehan Patrick of Elly/Ally/Ailbe Fitzgerald & Honora Breen/Brien To be cont'd

1874 William of William Condon and Catherine Ryan Timothy of John Moloney & Grace O'Neill Margaret of Edmund Keating & Bridget Humphries Mary* of Timothy Cormack & Mary Latchford Mary of William Power & Margaret O'Brien Catherine of William Keiley & Anastasia Crowe Bridget of John Danaher & Bridget Cronin Edmond of Tim Danaher & Joanna Gavin Mary of Patrick Moloney & Kate Ryan Thomas of Patrick Downey & Alice Crosgrave Joanna of John Ryan & Sarah Batters Margaret of Luke Hally & Mary Fitzgerald Bridget of Michael Bradshaw & Mary Dwyer Michael of James Nash & Julia O'Brien James of Michael Mealy/O'Malley & Ellen Spillane Joanna of Philip Ryan & Jane Whelan Elizabeth of James Power & Margaret Hammersley Julia of Patrick Kelly & Margaret Quirke Patrick of William Finnan & Mary Kinnane Thomas of William Condon & Anne Dwyer Patrick of Patrick Quinn & Ellen Ryan Daniel of Patrick Crowe & Margaret Ryan Edmound of James Heffernan & Mary Heffernan Mary of Laurence Buckley & Ellen Dwyer Henry of Daniel Daly & Honora Fleming Kate of Andy Ryan & Joanna O'Brien [twin] Joanna of Andy Ryan & Joanna O'Brien [twin] Michael of James Dwyer & Margaret Heffernan Patrick of John O'Brien & Bridget McGrath Philip of Patrick Ryan & Margaret Condon Patrick of John Leahy & Mary Burns Samuel of Edmund Condon & Anne Leamey Nicholas of Joseph Cleary & Margaret Rafferty To be cont'd

Having been on this list several years, I too remember all the controvercy over the supposed "closed" records and the different reasons for it, but my contention has always been that money was just a front for the real reason for the closed records. Yes it's true that their fees were a bit much which gave the impression that they saw us researchers as a "gold mine", but in further research some of us uncovered another reason, that many catholic authorities view genealogists as mormons, and thus protestants. Therefore some in the church do not want "their" records to be viewed/abused by "protestants". In other nations where the catholic church "owns" the records they make no bones about it. If you are a "genealogist" you are a protestant and thus records are "lost, burned, destroyed in war, closed, etc" (sound familiar). This is true in Spain and Mexico. I have posted this theory over the years and many agree that there is something to it, but some get offended thinking I am somehow insulting mormonism because one reason some catholics do not like mormons viewing "their" records is the idea that mormons use these records to "pray our ancestors into their version of heaven" and that also offends some. Frankly, I don't care what the mormon church does with the records as long as I can have access to them. Dan Hogan Searching Hogan/Mullally/Cummins/O'Meara in Tipperary/Offaly --- Carmen DiGiacomo <tippfado@verizon.net> wrote: > Money may have been a reason, but that still doesn't > translate to lining > "his" pockets. > > Carmen-Pittsburgh > > These suspicions go back many years. I'm sure that > many new people whom > > have come aboard in the past five years probably > never heard about the AB > > closing the books and threatening to sue anyone > who posted copies of > > material under his control. > > > > Put another way, the only possible motive to close > records had to be > > money. > > > > -- > > don kelly Dan Hogan hogan-4@sbcglobal.net Enjoy the updated website for the Civil War Reenactment Society: www.cwrs.info !

I must hasten to defend my reputation against Joker's allegation that I have judged the Archbishop to be "bad". I have never claimed he is a bad person, merely that he has been authoritarian, obstinate and complacent. Richard Callanan, London.

I think we are all becoming a bit previous with this so called "win". The "Archhbishop is Defeated" sounds like some medieval primal scream from the bowels of a pagan thrust against christianity. Me Religious?? not really but to pass judgement on someone as being "bad" because they don't agree with you is a bit precious. The main gist of the agruments over time seems to be that the Archbishop lowered himself to charging for access to the records. There were lots of arguments like "they belong to our ancestors" etc and they should be free but really they were created, kept, maintained and OWNED by the relevant churches. Else they would not exist. They didn't get destroyed in the fires of 1758 and 1922 under government protection but it was events like these that made them so "valuable". Now - Money. If you haven't paid for an Ancestry subscription, purchased a application to maintain your genealogy tree, paid an ISP for access to this forum, donated to a church for records received then you are not in a position to criticise the Archbishop. He just fitted in with all the rest if it can justifiably said that was his only motive. Be reminded - Genealogy is a big business worldwide and one way or the other we all pay for our trees. However, it's forums like this that we try and help each other and minimize that cost otherwise we would all have pro genealogists working for us. Stay relevant. So...My view...... "Let he who has not sinned cast the first stone" Bill Kelson Perth AUS

I went back and looked at my posting and believe the little people were walking across my keyboard as I typed for in many places letters and symbols appeared reducing my sentences to nonsensical gibberish. &nbsp; I just wanted to say I am very happy for those of you who can now search all records that were up until recently forbidden by the archbishop.&nbsp; I wish you all happy hunting with positive results.&nbsp; It is ironic for me however that this happens at a time in my life when I cannot take advantage of this happening.&nbsp;&nbsp;I have spent good money for paid research in the past with poor results.&nbsp; Now I can not afford a trip to Ireland but perhaps in the future will be able to resume my search with the help of a good researcher.&nbsp; If anyone can direct me in that direction it would be appreciated.&nbsp; I am researching Cleary, Hogan, Smith, Duly in that part of Tipperary which borders on Offaly in the town of Birr and beyond in Tipperary. &nbsp; Having followed this list for years, I still read all the listings even though I am not actively researching at this time due to the fact that I am now primary care giver for my 93 year old mother and have had health problems of my own.&nbsp; So again to all of you,&nbsp; happy hunting and wishing you all great success. &nbsp;&nbsp; Diane

Money may have been a reason, but that still doesn't translate to lining "his" pockets. Carmen-Pittsburgh ----- Original Message ----- From: "donkelly" <ocollaugh@comcast.net> To: <cotipperary@rootsweb.com> Sent: Saturday, June 14, 2008 1:19 AM Subject: Re: [COTIPPERARY] Archbishop Defeated > These suspicions go back many years. I'm sure that many new people whom > have come aboard in the past five years probably never heard about the AB > closing the books and threatening to sue anyone who posted copies of > material under his control. > > Put another way, the only possible motive to close records had to be > money. > > -- > don kelly > > -------------- Original message ---------------------- > From: "Carmen DiGiacomo" <tippfado@verizon.net> >> It is indeed a pleasant and long awaited victory for those who have roots >> in >> Cashel & Emly Diocese (as well as Cloyne & Kerry), as well as those who >> help >> with the searches; but I haven't seen anything that said the Archbishop >> was >> lining his pockets. >> >> Carmen-Pittsburgh >> >> ----- Original Message ----- >> From: "donkelly" <ocollaugh@comcast.net> >> To: <cotipperary@rootsweb.com> >> Sent: Friday, June 13, 2008 2:17 PM >> Subject: Re: [COTIPPERARY] Archbishop Defeated >> >> >> > Yes, it appears we can put past animosities toward the Archbishop >> > aside. >> > But I still think it was terrible for him to line his own pockets to >> > begin >> > with. It had earmarks of a hostage situation, pay me or else. >> > >> > Off of the opinion poll. >> > >> > -- >> > don kelly >> > >> > -------------- Original message ---------------------- >> > From: "Richard Callanan" <richard@callanan.demon.co.uk> >> >> >> >> Everyone on the list will get great satisfaction from the news below. >> >> It >> >> has >> >> been a long battle and the list archives will show the previous >> >> correspondence that I believe played some part in developing the >> >> groundswell >> >> that has finally brought results. The Archbishop may still contest the >> >> National Library's decision in the courts but I am confident that he >> >> will >> >> lose. I am sure we can now put behind us this relic of >> >> authoritarianism, >> >> obstinacy and complacency. And I am changing my holiday travel plans! >> >> >> >> Richard Callanan >> >> London. >> >> >> >> ********************************************* >> >> ********************************************* >> >> >> >> Press Release from the Association of Professional Genealogists in >> >> Ireland. >> >> >> >> National Library allows public access to Roman Catholic parish >> >> registers >> >> for >> >> Cashel & Emly, Cloyne and Kerry. >> >> >> >> The Association of Professional Genealogists in Ireland (APGI) >> >> welcomes >> >> today's [27 may 2008] announcement from the National Library of >> >> Ireland >> >> that >> >> they are once again to allow public access to their microfilm copies >> >> of >> >> Roman Catholic parish registers from the dioceses of Cashel & Emly, >> >> Cloyne >> >> and Kerry. >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> At APGI's annual general meeting last December the matter of >> >> restricted >> >> access and, in the case of Cashel & Emly, total closure of these >> >> historical >> >> records was raised. A resolution was passed calling on the National >> >> Library >> >> to immediately lift all such restrictions in accordance with a legal >> >> opinion >> >> given as long ago as 1994, when the matter was the subject of an >> >> article >> >> in >> >> Irish Roots magazine (1994, Number 2, pp.23-24). >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> The National Library's collection of microfilms covers the surviving >> >> pre-1881 baptismal and marriage records of almost all Roman Catholic >> >> parishes throughout Ireland. These records are fundamental to >> >> genealogical >> >> research for most people of Irish descent. The registers were >> >> microfilmed >> >> in >> >> the 1950s and 1960s. As they then included records of living people, >> >> they >> >> were made available only with the written permission of the relevant >> >> parish >> >> priest. In the 1980s, through the intervention of the then Chief >> >> Herald >> >> of >> >> Ireland, Mr. Donal Begley, this requirement was lifted by the relevant >> >> bishops for most dioceses, including Cashel & Emly. Having >> >> unrestricted >> >> access to these records revolutionised research for the thousands of >> >> tourists who visited Ireland each year but who had had limited time >> >> for >> >> family history research. >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> In 1991 the new Archbishop of Cashel & Emly, Dr. Dermot Clifford, >> >> claimed >> >> copyright in the manuscript parish registers and stated that he was >> >> giving >> >> the Tipperary Heritage Unit (now known as Tipperary Family History >> >> Research, >> >> and based in Tipperary town) exclusive rights to provide and market >> >> information from them. The holders of microfilm copies of the >> >> registers, >> >> primarily the National Library and the Church of Jesus Christ of >> >> Latter-Day >> >> Saints (Mormon Church), were informed to withdraw the films from >> >> public >> >> access. In 1992 the National Library did so. For the past sixteen >> >> years >> >> no >> >> one has been allowed to view the microfilms from Cashel & Emly. >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> In 1994 the National Library was supplied with a legal opinion by >> >> Muireann O >> >> Briain, S.C., which dismissed the notion of copyright in a manuscript >> >> which >> >> were created for the purpose of maintaining records and which was not >> >> 'the >> >> work of one person or of joint authorship'. Ms. O Briain further >> >> stated >> >> that >> >> even if copyright were upheld anyone using microfilm copies of the >> >> registers >> >> for research purposes would not be infringing any such copyright. It >> >> is >> >> believed that the National Library subsequently commissioned further >> >> legal >> >> opinions which did not differ materially from Ms. O Briain's, but it >> >> is >> >> only >> >> now that the microfilms are being reopened. >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> The reopening of Cashel & Emly records is of major importance to those >> >> trying to trace their ancestry in an area covering almost half of Co. >> >> Tipperary as well as a large part of East Limerick. No longer will >> >> those >> >> seeking their heritage have to be denied access to church registers at >> >> Ireland's National Library. >> > >> > ------------------------------- >> > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to >> > COTIPPERARY-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without >> > the >> > quotes in the subject and the body of the message >> > >> >> >> ------------------------------- >> To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to >> COTIPPERARY-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the >> quotes >> in the subject and the body of the message > > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > COTIPPERARY-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the > quotes in the subject and the body of the message

These suspicions go back many years. I'm sure that many new people whom have come aboard in the past five years probably never heard about the AB closing the books and threatening to sue anyone who posted copies of material under his control. Put another way, the only possible motive to close records had to be money. -- don kelly -------------- Original message ---------------------- From: "Carmen DiGiacomo" <tippfado@verizon.net> > It is indeed a pleasant and long awaited victory for those who have roots in > Cashel & Emly Diocese (as well as Cloyne & Kerry), as well as those who help > with the searches; but I haven't seen anything that said the Archbishop was > lining his pockets. > > Carmen-Pittsburgh > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "donkelly" <ocollaugh@comcast.net> > To: <cotipperary@rootsweb.com> > Sent: Friday, June 13, 2008 2:17 PM > Subject: Re: [COTIPPERARY] Archbishop Defeated > > > > Yes, it appears we can put past animosities toward the Archbishop aside. > > But I still think it was terrible for him to line his own pockets to begin > > with. It had earmarks of a hostage situation, pay me or else. > > > > Off of the opinion poll. > > > > -- > > don kelly > > > > -------------- Original message ---------------------- > > From: "Richard Callanan" <richard@callanan.demon.co.uk> > >> > >> Everyone on the list will get great satisfaction from the news below. It > >> has > >> been a long battle and the list archives will show the previous > >> correspondence that I believe played some part in developing the > >> groundswell > >> that has finally brought results. The Archbishop may still contest the > >> National Library's decision in the courts but I am confident that he will > >> lose. I am sure we can now put behind us this relic of authoritarianism, > >> obstinacy and complacency. And I am changing my holiday travel plans! > >> > >> Richard Callanan > >> London. > >> > >> ********************************************* > >> ********************************************* > >> > >> Press Release from the Association of Professional Genealogists in > >> Ireland. > >> > >> National Library allows public access to Roman Catholic parish registers > >> for > >> Cashel & Emly, Cloyne and Kerry. > >> > >> The Association of Professional Genealogists in Ireland (APGI) welcomes > >> today's [27 may 2008] announcement from the National Library of Ireland > >> that > >> they are once again to allow public access to their microfilm copies of > >> Roman Catholic parish registers from the dioceses of Cashel & Emly, > >> Cloyne > >> and Kerry. > >> > >> > >> > >> At APGI's annual general meeting last December the matter of restricted > >> access and, in the case of Cashel & Emly, total closure of these > >> historical > >> records was raised. A resolution was passed calling on the National > >> Library > >> to immediately lift all such restrictions in accordance with a legal > >> opinion > >> given as long ago as 1994, when the matter was the subject of an article > >> in > >> Irish Roots magazine (1994, Number 2, pp.23-24). > >> > >> > >> > >> The National Library's collection of microfilms covers the surviving > >> pre-1881 baptismal and marriage records of almost all Roman Catholic > >> parishes throughout Ireland. These records are fundamental to > >> genealogical > >> research for most people of Irish descent. The registers were microfilmed > >> in > >> the 1950s and 1960s. As they then included records of living people, they > >> were made available only with the written permission of the relevant > >> parish > >> priest. In the 1980s, through the intervention of the then Chief Herald > >> of > >> Ireland, Mr. Donal Begley, this requirement was lifted by the relevant > >> bishops for most dioceses, including Cashel & Emly. Having unrestricted > >> access to these records revolutionised research for the thousands of > >> tourists who visited Ireland each year but who had had limited time for > >> family history research. > >> > >> > >> > >> In 1991 the new Archbishop of Cashel & Emly, Dr. Dermot Clifford, claimed > >> copyright in the manuscript parish registers and stated that he was > >> giving > >> the Tipperary Heritage Unit (now known as Tipperary Family History > >> Research, > >> and based in Tipperary town) exclusive rights to provide and market > >> information from them. The holders of microfilm copies of the registers, > >> primarily the National Library and the Church of Jesus Christ of > >> Latter-Day > >> Saints (Mormon Church), were informed to withdraw the films from public > >> access. In 1992 the National Library did so. For the past sixteen years > >> no > >> one has been allowed to view the microfilms from Cashel & Emly. > >> > >> > >> > >> In 1994 the National Library was supplied with a legal opinion by > >> Muireann O > >> Briain, S.C., which dismissed the notion of copyright in a manuscript > >> which > >> were created for the purpose of maintaining records and which was not > >> 'the > >> work of one person or of joint authorship'. Ms. O Briain further stated > >> that > >> even if copyright were upheld anyone using microfilm copies of the > >> registers > >> for research purposes would not be infringing any such copyright. It is > >> believed that the National Library subsequently commissioned further > >> legal > >> opinions which did not differ materially from Ms. O Briain's, but it is > >> only > >> now that the microfilms are being reopened. > >> > >> > >> > >> The reopening of Cashel & Emly records is of major importance to those > >> trying to trace their ancestry in an area covering almost half of Co. > >> Tipperary as well as a large part of East Limerick. No longer will those > >> seeking their heritage have to be denied access to church registers at > >> Ireland's National Library. > > > > ------------------------------- > > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > > COTIPPERARY-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the > > quotes in the subject and the body of the message > > > > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > COTIPPERARY-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes > in the subject and the body of the message

It is indeed a pleasant and long awaited victory for those who have roots in Cashel & Emly Diocese (as well as Cloyne & Kerry), as well as those who help with the searches; but I haven't seen anything that said the Archbishop was lining his pockets. Carmen-Pittsburgh ----- Original Message ----- From: "donkelly" <ocollaugh@comcast.net> To: <cotipperary@rootsweb.com> Sent: Friday, June 13, 2008 2:17 PM Subject: Re: [COTIPPERARY] Archbishop Defeated > Yes, it appears we can put past animosities toward the Archbishop aside. > But I still think it was terrible for him to line his own pockets to begin > with. It had earmarks of a hostage situation, pay me or else. > > Off of the opinion poll. > > -- > don kelly > > -------------- Original message ---------------------- > From: "Richard Callanan" <richard@callanan.demon.co.uk> >> >> Everyone on the list will get great satisfaction from the news below. It >> has >> been a long battle and the list archives will show the previous >> correspondence that I believe played some part in developing the >> groundswell >> that has finally brought results. The Archbishop may still contest the >> National Library's decision in the courts but I am confident that he will >> lose. I am sure we can now put behind us this relic of authoritarianism, >> obstinacy and complacency. And I am changing my holiday travel plans! >> >> Richard Callanan >> London. >> >> ********************************************* >> ********************************************* >> >> Press Release from the Association of Professional Genealogists in >> Ireland. >> >> National Library allows public access to Roman Catholic parish registers >> for >> Cashel & Emly, Cloyne and Kerry. >> >> The Association of Professional Genealogists in Ireland (APGI) welcomes >> today's [27 may 2008] announcement from the National Library of Ireland >> that >> they are once again to allow public access to their microfilm copies of >> Roman Catholic parish registers from the dioceses of Cashel & Emly, >> Cloyne >> and Kerry. >> >> >> >> At APGI's annual general meeting last December the matter of restricted >> access and, in the case of Cashel & Emly, total closure of these >> historical >> records was raised. A resolution was passed calling on the National >> Library >> to immediately lift all such restrictions in accordance with a legal >> opinion >> given as long ago as 1994, when the matter was the subject of an article >> in >> Irish Roots magazine (1994, Number 2, pp.23-24). >> >> >> >> The National Library's collection of microfilms covers the surviving >> pre-1881 baptismal and marriage records of almost all Roman Catholic >> parishes throughout Ireland. These records are fundamental to >> genealogical >> research for most people of Irish descent. The registers were microfilmed >> in >> the 1950s and 1960s. As they then included records of living people, they >> were made available only with the written permission of the relevant >> parish >> priest. In the 1980s, through the intervention of the then Chief Herald >> of >> Ireland, Mr. Donal Begley, this requirement was lifted by the relevant >> bishops for most dioceses, including Cashel & Emly. Having unrestricted >> access to these records revolutionised research for the thousands of >> tourists who visited Ireland each year but who had had limited time for >> family history research. >> >> >> >> In 1991 the new Archbishop of Cashel & Emly, Dr. Dermot Clifford, claimed >> copyright in the manuscript parish registers and stated that he was >> giving >> the Tipperary Heritage Unit (now known as Tipperary Family History >> Research, >> and based in Tipperary town) exclusive rights to provide and market >> information from them. The holders of microfilm copies of the registers, >> primarily the National Library and the Church of Jesus Christ of >> Latter-Day >> Saints (Mormon Church), were informed to withdraw the films from public >> access. In 1992 the National Library did so. For the past sixteen years >> no >> one has been allowed to view the microfilms from Cashel & Emly. >> >> >> >> In 1994 the National Library was supplied with a legal opinion by >> Muireann O >> Briain, S.C., which dismissed the notion of copyright in a manuscript >> which >> were created for the purpose of maintaining records and which was not >> 'the >> work of one person or of joint authorship'. Ms. O Briain further stated >> that >> even if copyright were upheld anyone using microfilm copies of the >> registers >> for research purposes would not be infringing any such copyright. It is >> believed that the National Library subsequently commissioned further >> legal >> opinions which did not differ materially from Ms. O Briain's, but it is >> only >> now that the microfilms are being reopened. >> >> >> >> The reopening of Cashel & Emly records is of major importance to those >> trying to trace their ancestry in an area covering almost half of Co. >> Tipperary as well as a large part of East Limerick. No longer will those >> seeking their heritage have to be denied access to church registers at >> Ireland's National Library. > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > COTIPPERARY-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the > quotes in the subject and the body of the message >

I'm sure he might justify it that he was providing training and jobs for some few people who couldn't get work, but after the Celtic Tiger kicked in, that sort of went out the window. After that it was just stubbornness. Janet On 6/13/08, donkelly <ocollaugh@comcast.net> wrote: > Perhaps you are right about him not lining his pockets, but we must assume > that MONEY was the reason he locked up the ledgers. He held the ledgers for > ransom and THAT was his BAD. > > -- > don kelly > > -------------- Original message ---------------------- > From: "Janet Crawford" <reojan@gmail.com> >> Dear Dick and Don, Although I doubt the AB was lining his own pockets, >> he was obstructing us all from finding our families and history. I >> never want to be in the position of being blocked by one stubborn man >> ever again. So, please, all, post every record you can get your hands >> on so they can never be secret and held hostage again. >> >> Janet >> >> On 6/13/08, donkelly <ocollaugh@comcast.net> wrote: >> > Yes, it appears we can put past animosities toward the Archbishop aside. >> > But >> > I still think it was terrible for him to line his own pockets to begin >> > with. >> > It had earmarks of a hostage situation, pay me or else. >> > >> > Off of the opinion poll. >> > >> > -- >> > don kelly >> > >> > -------------- Original message ---------------------- >> > From: "Richard Callanan" <richard@callanan.demon.co.uk> >> >> >> >> Everyone on the list will get great satisfaction from the news below. >> >> It >> >> has >> >> been a long battle and the list archives will show the previous >> >> correspondence that I believe played some part in developing the >> >> groundswell >> >> that has finally brought results. The Archbishop may still contest the >> >> National Library's decision in the courts but I am confident that he >> >> will >> >> lose. I am sure we can now put behind us this relic of >> >> authoritarianism, >> >> obstinacy and complacency. And I am changing my holiday travel plans! >> >> >> >> Richard Callanan >> >> London. >> >> >> >> ********************************************* >> >> ********************************************* >> >> >> >> Press Release from the Association of Professional Genealogists in >> >> Ireland. >> >> >> >> National Library allows public access to Roman Catholic parish >> >> registers >> >> for >> >> Cashel & Emly, Cloyne and Kerry. >> >> >> >> The Association of Professional Genealogists in Ireland (APGI) welcomes >> >> today's [27 may 2008] announcement from the National Library of Ireland >> >> that >> >> they are once again to allow public access to their microfilm copies of >> >> Roman Catholic parish registers from the dioceses of Cashel & Emly, >> >> Cloyne >> >> and Kerry. >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> At APGI's annual general meeting last December the matter of restricted >> >> access and, in the case of Cashel & Emly, total closure of these >> >> historical >> >> records was raised. A resolution was passed calling on the National >> >> Library >> >> to immediately lift all such restrictions in accordance with a legal >> >> opinion >> >> given as long ago as 1994, when the matter was the subject of an >> >> article >> >> in >> >> Irish Roots magazine (1994, Number 2, pp.23-24). >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> The National Library's collection of microfilms covers the surviving >> >> pre-1881 baptismal and marriage records of almost all Roman Catholic >> >> parishes throughout Ireland. These records are fundamental to >> >> genealogical >> >> research for most people of Irish descent. The registers were >> >> microfilmed >> >> in >> >> the 1950s and 1960s. As they then included records of living people, >> >> they >> >> were made available only with the written permission of the relevant >> >> parish >> >> priest. In the 1980s, through the intervention of the then Chief Herald >> >> of >> >> Ireland, Mr. Donal Begley, this requirement was lifted by the relevant >> >> bishops for most dioceses, including Cashel & Emly. Having unrestricted >> >> access to these records revolutionised research for the thousands of >> >> tourists who visited Ireland each year but who had had limited time for >> >> family history research. >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> In 1991 the new Archbishop of Cashel & Emly, Dr. Dermot Clifford, >> >> claimed >> >> copyright in the manuscript parish registers and stated that he was >> >> giving >> >> the Tipperary Heritage Unit (now known as Tipperary Family History >> >> Research, >> >> and based in Tipperary town) exclusive rights to provide and market >> >> information from them. The holders of microfilm copies of the >> >> registers, >> >> primarily the National Library and the Church of Jesus Christ of >> >> Latter-Day >> >> Saints (Mormon Church), were informed to withdraw the films from public >> >> access. In 1992 the National Library did so. For the past sixteen years >> >> no >> >> one has been allowed to view the microfilms from Cashel & Emly. >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> In 1994 the National Library was supplied with a legal opinion by >> >> Muireann >> >> O >> >> Briain, S.C., which dismissed the notion of copyright in a manuscript >> >> which >> >> were created for the purpose of maintaining records and which was not >> >> 'the >> >> work of one person or of joint authorship'. Ms. O Briain further stated >> >> that >> >> even if copyright were upheld anyone using microfilm copies of the >> >> registers >> >> for research purposes would not be infringing any such copyright. It is >> >> believed that the National Library subsequently commissioned further >> >> legal >> >> opinions which did not differ materially from Ms. O Briain's, but it is >> >> only >> >> now that the microfilms are being reopened. >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> The reopening of Cashel & Emly records is of major importance to those >> >> trying to trace their ancestry in an area covering almost half of Co. >> >> Tipperary as well as a large part of East Limerick. No longer will >> >> those >> >> seeking their heritage have to be denied access to church registers at >> >> Ireland's National Library. >> > >> > ------------------------------- >> > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to >> > COTIPPERARY-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the >> > quotes in the subject and the body of the message >> > >> >> ------------------------------- >> To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to >> COTIPPERARY-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the >> quotes >> in the subject and the body of the message > > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > COTIPPERARY-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the > quotes in the subject and the body of the message >

Dear Dick and Don, Although I doubt the AB was lining his own pockets, he was obstructing us all from finding our families and history. I never want to be in the position of being blocked by one stubborn man ever again. So, please, all, post every record you can get your hands on so they can never be secret and held hostage again. Janet On 6/13/08, donkelly <ocollaugh@comcast.net> wrote: > Yes, it appears we can put past animosities toward the Archbishop aside. But > I still think it was terrible for him to line his own pockets to begin with. > It had earmarks of a hostage situation, pay me or else. > > Off of the opinion poll. > > -- > don kelly > > -------------- Original message ---------------------- > From: "Richard Callanan" <richard@callanan.demon.co.uk> >> >> Everyone on the list will get great satisfaction from the news below. It >> has >> been a long battle and the list archives will show the previous >> correspondence that I believe played some part in developing the >> groundswell >> that has finally brought results. The Archbishop may still contest the >> National Library's decision in the courts but I am confident that he will >> lose. I am sure we can now put behind us this relic of authoritarianism, >> obstinacy and complacency. And I am changing my holiday travel plans! >> >> Richard Callanan >> London. >> >> ********************************************* >> ********************************************* >> >> Press Release from the Association of Professional Genealogists in >> Ireland. >> >> National Library allows public access to Roman Catholic parish registers >> for >> Cashel & Emly, Cloyne and Kerry. >> >> The Association of Professional Genealogists in Ireland (APGI) welcomes >> today's [27 may 2008] announcement from the National Library of Ireland >> that >> they are once again to allow public access to their microfilm copies of >> Roman Catholic parish registers from the dioceses of Cashel & Emly, Cloyne >> and Kerry. >> >> >> >> At APGI's annual general meeting last December the matter of restricted >> access and, in the case of Cashel & Emly, total closure of these >> historical >> records was raised. A resolution was passed calling on the National >> Library >> to immediately lift all such restrictions in accordance with a legal >> opinion >> given as long ago as 1994, when the matter was the subject of an article >> in >> Irish Roots magazine (1994, Number 2, pp.23-24). >> >> >> >> The National Library's collection of microfilms covers the surviving >> pre-1881 baptismal and marriage records of almost all Roman Catholic >> parishes throughout Ireland. These records are fundamental to genealogical >> research for most people of Irish descent. The registers were microfilmed >> in >> the 1950s and 1960s. As they then included records of living people, they >> were made available only with the written permission of the relevant >> parish >> priest. In the 1980s, through the intervention of the then Chief Herald of >> Ireland, Mr. Donal Begley, this requirement was lifted by the relevant >> bishops for most dioceses, including Cashel & Emly. Having unrestricted >> access to these records revolutionised research for the thousands of >> tourists who visited Ireland each year but who had had limited time for >> family history research. >> >> >> >> In 1991 the new Archbishop of Cashel & Emly, Dr. Dermot Clifford, claimed >> copyright in the manuscript parish registers and stated that he was giving >> the Tipperary Heritage Unit (now known as Tipperary Family History >> Research, >> and based in Tipperary town) exclusive rights to provide and market >> information from them. The holders of microfilm copies of the registers, >> primarily the National Library and the Church of Jesus Christ of >> Latter-Day >> Saints (Mormon Church), were informed to withdraw the films from public >> access. In 1992 the National Library did so. For the past sixteen years no >> one has been allowed to view the microfilms from Cashel & Emly. >> >> >> >> In 1994 the National Library was supplied with a legal opinion by Muireann >> O >> Briain, S.C., which dismissed the notion of copyright in a manuscript >> which >> were created for the purpose of maintaining records and which was not 'the >> work of one person or of joint authorship'. Ms. O Briain further stated >> that >> even if copyright were upheld anyone using microfilm copies of the >> registers >> for research purposes would not be infringing any such copyright. It is >> believed that the National Library subsequently commissioned further legal >> opinions which did not differ materially from Ms. O Briain's, but it is >> only >> now that the microfilms are being reopened. >> >> >> >> The reopening of Cashel & Emly records is of major importance to those >> trying to trace their ancestry in an area covering almost half of Co. >> Tipperary as well as a large part of East Limerick. No longer will those >> seeking their heritage have to be denied access to church registers at >> Ireland's National Library. > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > COTIPPERARY-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the > quotes in the subject and the body of the message >

Everyone on the list will get great satisfaction from the news below. It has been a long battle and the list archives will show the previous correspondence that I believe played some part in developing the groundswell that has finally brought results. The Archbishop may still contest the National Library's decision in the courts but I am confident that he will lose. I am sure we can now put behind us this relic of authoritarianism, obstinacy and complacency. And I am changing my holiday travel plans! Richard Callanan London. ********************************************* ********************************************* Press Release from the Association of Professional Genealogists in Ireland. National Library allows public access to Roman Catholic parish registers for Cashel & Emly, Cloyne and Kerry. The Association of Professional Genealogists in Ireland (APGI) welcomes today's [27 may 2008] announcement from the National Library of Ireland that they are once again to allow public access to their microfilm copies of Roman Catholic parish registers from the dioceses of Cashel & Emly, Cloyne and Kerry. At APGI's annual general meeting last December the matter of restricted access and, in the case of Cashel & Emly, total closure of these historical records was raised. A resolution was passed calling on the National Library to immediately lift all such restrictions in accordance with a legal opinion given as long ago as 1994, when the matter was the subject of an article in Irish Roots magazine (1994, Number 2, pp.23-24). The National Library's collection of microfilms covers the surviving pre-1881 baptismal and marriage records of almost all Roman Catholic parishes throughout Ireland. These records are fundamental to genealogical research for most people of Irish descent. The registers were microfilmed in the 1950s and 1960s. As they then included records of living people, they were made available only with the written permission of the relevant parish priest. In the 1980s, through the intervention of the then Chief Herald of Ireland, Mr. Donal Begley, this requirement was lifted by the relevant bishops for most dioceses, including Cashel & Emly. Having unrestricted access to these records revolutionised research for the thousands of tourists who visited Ireland each year but who had had limited time for family history research. In 1991 the new Archbishop of Cashel & Emly, Dr. Dermot Clifford, claimed copyright in the manuscript parish registers and stated that he was giving the Tipperary Heritage Unit (now known as Tipperary Family History Research, and based in Tipperary town) exclusive rights to provide and market information from them. The holders of microfilm copies of the registers, primarily the National Library and the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-Day Saints (Mormon Church), were informed to withdraw the films from public access. In 1992 the National Library did so. For the past sixteen years no one has been allowed to view the microfilms from Cashel & Emly. In 1994 the National Library was supplied with a legal opinion by Muireann O Briain, S.C., which dismissed the notion of copyright in a manuscript which were created for the purpose of maintaining records and which was not 'the work of one person or of joint authorship'. Ms. O Briain further stated that even if copyright were upheld anyone using microfilm copies of the registers for research purposes would not be infringing any such copyright. It is believed that the National Library subsequently commissioned further legal opinions which did not differ materially from Ms. O Briain's, but it is only now that the microfilms are being reopened. The reopening of Cashel & Emly records is of major importance to those trying to trace their ancestry in an area covering almost half of Co. Tipperary as well as a large part of East Limerick. No longer will those seeking their heritage have to be denied access to church registers at Ireland's National Library.

Perhaps you are right about him not lining his pockets, but we must assume that MONEY was the reason he locked up the ledgers. He held the ledgers for ransom and THAT was his BAD. -- don kelly -------------- Original message ---------------------- From: "Janet Crawford" <reojan@gmail.com> > Dear Dick and Don, Although I doubt the AB was lining his own pockets, > he was obstructing us all from finding our families and history. I > never want to be in the position of being blocked by one stubborn man > ever again. So, please, all, post every record you can get your hands > on so they can never be secret and held hostage again. > > Janet > > On 6/13/08, donkelly <ocollaugh@comcast.net> wrote: > > Yes, it appears we can put past animosities toward the Archbishop aside. But > > I still think it was terrible for him to line his own pockets to begin with. > > It had earmarks of a hostage situation, pay me or else. > > > > Off of the opinion poll. > > > > -- > > don kelly > > > > -------------- Original message ---------------------- > > From: "Richard Callanan" <richard@callanan.demon.co.uk> > >> > >> Everyone on the list will get great satisfaction from the news below. It > >> has > >> been a long battle and the list archives will show the previous > >> correspondence that I believe played some part in developing the > >> groundswell > >> that has finally brought results. The Archbishop may still contest the > >> National Library's decision in the courts but I am confident that he will > >> lose. I am sure we can now put behind us this relic of authoritarianism, > >> obstinacy and complacency. And I am changing my holiday travel plans! > >> > >> Richard Callanan > >> London. > >> > >> ********************************************* > >> ********************************************* > >> > >> Press Release from the Association of Professional Genealogists in > >> Ireland. > >> > >> National Library allows public access to Roman Catholic parish registers > >> for > >> Cashel & Emly, Cloyne and Kerry. > >> > >> The Association of Professional Genealogists in Ireland (APGI) welcomes > >> today's [27 may 2008] announcement from the National Library of Ireland > >> that > >> they are once again to allow public access to their microfilm copies of > >> Roman Catholic parish registers from the dioceses of Cashel & Emly, Cloyne > >> and Kerry. > >> > >> > >> > >> At APGI's annual general meeting last December the matter of restricted > >> access and, in the case of Cashel & Emly, total closure of these > >> historical > >> records was raised. A resolution was passed calling on the National > >> Library > >> to immediately lift all such restrictions in accordance with a legal > >> opinion > >> given as long ago as 1994, when the matter was the subject of an article > >> in > >> Irish Roots magazine (1994, Number 2, pp.23-24). > >> > >> > >> > >> The National Library's collection of microfilms covers the surviving > >> pre-1881 baptismal and marriage records of almost all Roman Catholic > >> parishes throughout Ireland. These records are fundamental to genealogical > >> research for most people of Irish descent. The registers were microfilmed > >> in > >> the 1950s and 1960s. As they then included records of living people, they > >> were made available only with the written permission of the relevant > >> parish > >> priest. In the 1980s, through the intervention of the then Chief Herald of > >> Ireland, Mr. Donal Begley, this requirement was lifted by the relevant > >> bishops for most dioceses, including Cashel & Emly. Having unrestricted > >> access to these records revolutionised research for the thousands of > >> tourists who visited Ireland each year but who had had limited time for > >> family history research. > >> > >> > >> > >> In 1991 the new Archbishop of Cashel & Emly, Dr. Dermot Clifford, claimed > >> copyright in the manuscript parish registers and stated that he was giving > >> the Tipperary Heritage Unit (now known as Tipperary Family History > >> Research, > >> and based in Tipperary town) exclusive rights to provide and market > >> information from them. The holders of microfilm copies of the registers, > >> primarily the National Library and the Church of Jesus Christ of > >> Latter-Day > >> Saints (Mormon Church), were informed to withdraw the films from public > >> access. In 1992 the National Library did so. For the past sixteen years no > >> one has been allowed to view the microfilms from Cashel & Emly. > >> > >> > >> > >> In 1994 the National Library was supplied with a legal opinion by Muireann > >> O > >> Briain, S.C., which dismissed the notion of copyright in a manuscript > >> which > >> were created for the purpose of maintaining records and which was not 'the > >> work of one person or of joint authorship'. Ms. O Briain further stated > >> that > >> even if copyright were upheld anyone using microfilm copies of the > >> registers > >> for research purposes would not be infringing any such copyright. It is > >> believed that the National Library subsequently commissioned further legal > >> opinions which did not differ materially from Ms. O Briain's, but it is > >> only > >> now that the microfilms are being reopened. > >> > >> > >> > >> The reopening of Cashel & Emly records is of major importance to those > >> trying to trace their ancestry in an area covering almost half of Co. > >> Tipperary as well as a large part of East Limerick. No longer will those > >> seeking their heritage have to be denied access to church registers at > >> Ireland's National Library. > > > > ------------------------------- > > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > > COTIPPERARY-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the > > quotes in the subject and the body of the message > > > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > COTIPPERARY-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes > in the subject and the body of the message

Yes, it appears we can put past animosities toward the Archbishop aside. But I still think it was terrible for him to line his own pockets to begin with. It had earmarks of a hostage situation, pay me or else. Off of the opinion poll. -- don kelly -------------- Original message ---------------------- From: "Richard Callanan" <richard@callanan.demon.co.uk> > > Everyone on the list will get great satisfaction from the news below. It has > been a long battle and the list archives will show the previous > correspondence that I believe played some part in developing the groundswell > that has finally brought results. The Archbishop may still contest the > National Library's decision in the courts but I am confident that he will > lose. I am sure we can now put behind us this relic of authoritarianism, > obstinacy and complacency. And I am changing my holiday travel plans! > > Richard Callanan > London. > > ********************************************* > ********************************************* > > Press Release from the Association of Professional Genealogists in Ireland. > > National Library allows public access to Roman Catholic parish registers for > Cashel & Emly, Cloyne and Kerry. > > The Association of Professional Genealogists in Ireland (APGI) welcomes > today's [27 may 2008] announcement from the National Library of Ireland that > they are once again to allow public access to their microfilm copies of > Roman Catholic parish registers from the dioceses of Cashel & Emly, Cloyne > and Kerry. > > > > At APGI's annual general meeting last December the matter of restricted > access and, in the case of Cashel & Emly, total closure of these historical > records was raised. A resolution was passed calling on the National Library > to immediately lift all such restrictions in accordance with a legal opinion > given as long ago as 1994, when the matter was the subject of an article in > Irish Roots magazine (1994, Number 2, pp.23-24). > > > > The National Library's collection of microfilms covers the surviving > pre-1881 baptismal and marriage records of almost all Roman Catholic > parishes throughout Ireland. These records are fundamental to genealogical > research for most people of Irish descent. The registers were microfilmed in > the 1950s and 1960s. As they then included records of living people, they > were made available only with the written permission of the relevant parish > priest. In the 1980s, through the intervention of the then Chief Herald of > Ireland, Mr. Donal Begley, this requirement was lifted by the relevant > bishops for most dioceses, including Cashel & Emly. Having unrestricted > access to these records revolutionised research for the thousands of > tourists who visited Ireland each year but who had had limited time for > family history research. > > > > In 1991 the new Archbishop of Cashel & Emly, Dr. Dermot Clifford, claimed > copyright in the manuscript parish registers and stated that he was giving > the Tipperary Heritage Unit (now known as Tipperary Family History Research, > and based in Tipperary town) exclusive rights to provide and market > information from them. The holders of microfilm copies of the registers, > primarily the National Library and the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-Day > Saints (Mormon Church), were informed to withdraw the films from public > access. In 1992 the National Library did so. For the past sixteen years no > one has been allowed to view the microfilms from Cashel & Emly. > > > > In 1994 the National Library was supplied with a legal opinion by Muireann O > Briain, S.C., which dismissed the notion of copyright in a manuscript which > were created for the purpose of maintaining records and which was not 'the > work of one person or of joint authorship'. Ms. O Briain further stated that > even if copyright were upheld anyone using microfilm copies of the registers > for research purposes would not be infringing any such copyright. It is > believed that the National Library subsequently commissioned further legal > opinions which did not differ materially from Ms. O Briain's, but it is only > now that the microfilms are being reopened. > > > > The reopening of Cashel & Emly records is of major importance to those > trying to trace their ancestry in an area covering almost half of Co. > Tipperary as well as a large part of East Limerick. No longer will those > seeking their heritage have to be denied access to church registers at > Ireland's National Library.