Pat, I am checking with Tim. I thought FHL but have asked for the FHL numbers if that is it as I suppose. Christina || || I have just uploaded the last of the marriages Tim Boderck has || been doing for the Registration districts of Thurles, Tipperary || Town and Roscrea in Tipperary. The dates cover 1845-1863. || | | These are great, Chris. What is a source for the records? FHL | film? It would be nice to know so one could check since Tom stated | the handwriting was difficult at times.

Thanks Bee - it doesn't look from that, that the 'new' records will appear in the on-line IGI anytime soon! Hopefully we can now order the films from the LDS - sounds like reading the films will take a week of rainy days so perhaps winter will be a good time. Many thanks Eliz. O'C New Zealand ----- Original Message ----- From: <goughb@eircom.net> To: <cotipperary@rootsweb.com> Sent: Wednesday, June 18, 2008 12:59 AM Subject: Re: [COTIPPERARY] COTIPPERARY Digest, Vol 3, Issue 174 > cotipperary@rootsweb.com wrote: > > < For those of you who may not know, the church records that are kept in > the National Library are direct copies of the original manuscripts. That > is, they are mostly written in Latin. I found the handwriting very > difficult to read. I did my Cashel & Emly research, many years before > the A.B. came to the position he still holds. (He came from the Kerry > diocese). Because these records were photographed for microfilm many > years ago, before we had the technology we have today, they are rather > fuzzy. What I am saying is, it is a long and tedious task to try and > read through them.

> > I have just uploaded the last of the marriages Tim Boderck has been doing for > the Registration districts of Thurles, Tipperary Town and Roscrea in Tipperary. > The dates cover 1845-1863. These are great, Chris. What is a source for the records? FHL film? It would be nice to know so one could check since Tom stated the handwriting was difficult at times. -- Pat Connors, Sacramento CA http://www.connorsgenealogy.com

I have both Walls and Maher/Maras in my l ancestry. My Walls come from County Clare just barely across the Shannon from Limerick City in Meelick. They emigrated in 1854 but mention no Wall relatives in NSW, just Kellehers. My great great great grandmother Ellen Maher or Mara as it was shown on the passenger list on the other hand came from Cahir (or Care as it was spelt on the list), married an Eagan and was living in or around Clonmel by the time her children were born in the 1820s. Her husband, Thomas, got into trouble with a Michael Mara and, having been tried at Clonmel in 1823, both were transported to Australia. I visited Tipperary a few years ago and was told by a Cahir resident that the local pronunciation of Maher is Mah'r which explains the spelling Mara. The Freeman's Journal report of those tried at the Summer Assizes shows other Maras (another Michael and a Thomas) in trouble for adminstering illegal oaths, attemptrd murder and cow stealing. Yours appear to come from the more presentable side of the family. Regards Sue Ellis On 18/06/2008, at 5:16 PM, MForman wrote: > Having received some great assistance a while ago from members of > the list > regarding my O'Brien family from Ballywire I am hoping I may have > similar > good fortune concerning some of my wife's ancestors. > > William Charles WALL arrived in NSW in 1841 on the ship Forth > together with > his wife Mary. William was described very briefly on the passenger > list as > 25 years old, a farm labourer, native of Clonmell, Tipperary, and > the son of > John and Elinor WALL, postmaster. His wife Mary was aged 23 at the > time, a > farm servant and also a native of Clonmell, and her parents were > listed as > Thomas and Mary MAHER. The person certifying that they were of good > character was Richard Pennefather, but there is no indication of > his rank or > profession, and he is completely unknown to me. Both William and > Mary were > Catholics. There is no mention in the document whether or not their > four > parents were alive in 1841. If the ages stated were correct William > was born > about 1816 and Mary about 1818. > > William and Mary had two sons before they sailed to Australia in > 1841. These > did not accompany their parents but were left in Ireland until 1848 > when > they arrived in NSW on the ship Sir Edward Parry. The passenger > list does > not indicate that they were travelling with anyone in particular as > the > names are found in a separate list of single males with ages > ranging from 8 > to 29 and no-one else was listed as coming from the same place. The > two > children were John Wall aged 10 and Thomas Wall aged 8, both > Catholic and > both from Clara, Tipperary. Whoever wrote the passenger list would > have come > top of the class in writing, and the place given in the document (as > distinct from whatever the children may have said) was clearly > written Clara > Tipperary, not Clare nor Cahir, both appearing in the list for > other people. > Just to confuse things, when John Wall died in 1918 his death > certificate > stated that he came from County Clare, Ireland. > > The only other information I have comes from the death certificates of > William and Mary. These tell me that William's parents were John > WALL and > Ellen ENGLISH, and Mary's parents were Thomas MAHER and Mary > WALLACE. If the > ages given in the certificates are accurate, William Wall was born > in 1814 > and Mary in 1820, and they were married in about 1836 when Mary was > 16 years > old. While there is some discrepancy in the ages compared with the > ship's > list, both records and the ages of the two children point to a > marriage in > the latter part of the 1830s. Unfortunately the death certificates > are not > specific about the location of the births of William or Mary nor the > marriage, stating only that all three events occurred in Ireland. > > I think I have three questions about all of this: > - Does any-one have any knowledge of this family group? > - What records are available which may help me to find out more > about them > in Ireland and where should I look to find these records? > - Can anyone pinpoint the location of Clara, Tipperary, or, if > such a place > does not exist, hazard a guess as to another Clara nearby or some > other name > in the locality which may have been heard as Clara by the person > who wrote > the passenger list? It may be that the young boys were living with > relatives > until they were thought to be old enough to follow their parents to > NSW. > > Marshall Forman > Adelaide > South Australia > > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to COTIPPERARY- > request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes > in the subject and the body of the message > > > -- > This message has been scanned for viruses and > dangerous content by CyberOne E-Mail Spam and > Virus Protection Service, and is believed to > be clean from viruses. CyberOne Pty Ltd accepts no > responsibility for the content of messages > in transit through our servers. > -- > Suspected unsolicited commercial bulk messages > (SPAM) have been marked with {Spam?} tag in > the subject line enabling you to filter them out > by using your mail software's filtering capabilities. > >

Janet . Where abouts is Clerihan . Thanks for all your gifts to us . Laurie ----- Original Message ----- From: Janet Crawford To: cotipperary@rootsweb.com Sent: Thursday, June 19, 2008 7:34 AM Subject: [COTIPPERARY] Clerihan Baptism Index - Part 9

Janet, Thank you so much for all of the wonderful information you provide to the list. My family is from Longstone and Ballyrobin -- which are right next to each other but are divided between the Kilcornan and Cullen civil parishes. The two names I'm most interested in, Berkery (Barragry, Bercory, Bircury) and Keefe, only show up in the Kilcornan Griffiths, but the marriage and baptismal records for the family from the 1860's-1880's are in the Lattin/Cullen records you posted. Ballyrobin and the half of Longstone in Kilcornan sit in the Pallasgrean Catholic parish and the records go down to 1811. Do you know of any way to access those records? I have a feeling that I might find some missing links there. When I came to Tipperary four years ago I visited an old -- pretty large -- cemetary between Pallasgrean (old) and Longstone that had a number of Keefe and Berkery graves and I copied as many as I could, but haven't made any of the connections to my known family members. Thanks again for all you do. Kathleen _________________________________________________________________ Earn cashback on your purchases with Live Search - the search that pays you back! http://search.live.com/cashback/?&pkw=form=MIJAAF/publ=HMTGL/crea=earncashback

1858 cont'd Catherine of James Mockler & Mary Lanigan [Coleman] Mary of Patrick Cormack & Mary Slattery [Coleman] William of John Tobin & Judith Ahern [Clerihan] Edmund* of Edmund Walsh & Mary Lonergan [Newchapel] Thomas of Patrick Dalton & Alice Magrath/McGrath [Clerihan] Mary of Edmund Hogan & Susanna Sadlier [Newchapel] Johanna of William Dywer & Alice Biggs [Lafally] Anne of James Cummins & Hanna Byrne/Burn [Graigue] Patrick of Denis Callanan/Callaghan? & Margaret Moore [Graigue] William of James Prendergast & Margaret Walsh [Newchapel] Honora of John Lyons & Catherine Slattery [Newchapel] Ellen* of Michael Ryan & Alice Rourke [Coleman] John of Patrick Richardson & Margaret Flannery [Clerihan] Alice of Patrick Lyons & Mary Henebry [Newchapel] Ellen of Daniel Ryan & Margaret Tobin [Newchapel] William of Patrick White & Catherine Lonergan [Graigue] William of Patrick Lahy & Ellen Kiely [Clerihan] Thomas of William Ryan & Bridget Henebry Catherine of Michael Hayes & Mary Lonergan John of James Walsh & Bridget Donnell Johanna of Edmund Caudy & Judith Mackin Mary of Patrick Anderson & Catherine Downey Ellen of William Slattery & Ellen Hickey Margaret of James Bates & Ellen Gorman 1858 end

1858 Bridget of Terence Connors & Catherine Cantwell [Clerihan] Margaret of Patrick Hennebry & Bridget Ryan [Newchapel] Margaret of Thomas Cantwell & Mary Dunne [Clerihan] Cornelius of Cornelius Brien & Mary Fraher [Clerihan] John of James Slattery & Johanna Bishop [Clerihan] Charles of William Moore & Catherine Mulcahy [Newchapel] Margaret of William Lyons & Mary Fleming [Newchapel] Mary of Patrick Aylward & Catherine Kelly [Clerihan] Mary of Michael Lonergan & Mary Conway [Lafally] Thomas of James Ryan & Ellen Bates [Newchapel] Johanna of Laurence Henebry & Ellen Cleary [Ballyveelish] Michael of William Slattery & Bridget Flannery [Knockeevan] Denis of Daniel Cummins & Catherine Maher [Coleman] John of Patrick Anglim & Margaret Comons/Cummins [Coleman] Patrick of Edmund Lonergan & Margaret Lonergan [Clerihan] Johanna of Simon Molloy & Alice Henebry [Newchapel] Michael of John Donnell & Bridget Kennedy [Lafally] Judith of John Conway & Margaret Brien [Clerihan] Bridget of James Callaghan & Catherine Keating [Clerihan] John of Jeremiah Guirey/Geary?/Guirin? & Johanna Hanley [Coleman] John of James Flannery & Mary Rourke [Lafally] Catherine of James Lonergan & Mary Maher [Coleman] Catherine of Michael Mockler & Margaret Guirey/Geary?/Guirin? [Coleman] To be cont'd

1857 cont'd Daniel of Edmund Hogan & Susanna Sadlier [Newchapel] John of James Quirke & Judith Nolan [Clerihan] Mary of James Barry & Ellen Stapleton [Lafally] Thomas of John Richardson & Catherine White [Newchapel] Mary of Patrick Hogan & Mary Ryan [Killerk] Johanna of Thomas Hickey & Mary Hickey [Graigue] Ellen of Edmund Caudy & Judith Macken [Graigue] John of Michael Fogarty & Mary Morrissey [Mullaghnoney] Peter of Robert McCarthy & Ellen Connors [Clerihan] Denis of John Connell & Mary Heney [Clerihan] Alice of Richard Deeves & Margaret Casey [Knockeevan] Margaret of Charles Mulcahy & Catherine Lonergan [Graigue] Edmund of Michael Donnell & Mary Slattery [Ballyveelish] Catherine of Michael Lonergan & Honora Caudy [Clerihan] Catherine of John Burke & Bridget Hogan [Clerihan] Catherine of Thomas Keefe & Judith Slattery [Graigue] Bridget* of Nicholas Shea & Catherine Meany [Coleman] Catherine of Patrick Donnell & Catherine Fleming [Bawnbrack] David of John Keating & Elizabeth Butler Baggot [Coleman] Catherine Joseph of Patrick Quinlan & Ellen Baggot [Coleman] Joseph of Denis Slattery & Catherine Slattery [Clerihan] John of Patrick Quirke & Alice Dwyer [Clerihan] Johanna of John Hunt & Catherine Morrissey [Lavally] Judith of John Hennebry & Mary Fleming [Newchapel] 1857 end

I have just uploaded the last of the marriages Tim Boderck has been doing for the Registration districts of Thurles, Tipperary Town and Roscrea in Tipperary. The dates cover 1845-1863. Thanks to Tim for all his work on these. To view them go to: http://www.igp-web.com/tipperary/ Click on Vitals and slide to Marriages. (Not Marriage Database) From there you can choose the page to look at. Enjoy! Christina http://www.igp-web.com/tipperary/

1857 Patrick of Patrick Richardson & Margaret Flannery [Clerihan] Thomas of John Tobin & Catherine Bates [Graigue] Mathew of Edmund Magrath & Catherine Graham [Clerihan] William of Edmund Heffernan & Mary Bagott [Mocklerstown] Mary of John Breen/Brien & Bridget Donnell [Rathdrum] Patrick of Thomas Donnell & Johanna Moore [Ballyveelish] James of Michael Fitzgerald & Bridget Ryan [Coleman] John of William Ryan & Bridget Hennebry [Newchapel] Bridget of Michael Mockler & Mary Heffernan [Clerihan] Ellen of Patrick Cormack & Mary Slattery [Coleman] Michael of Denis Cronin & Ellen Larkin [Clerihan] Patrick of Michael Lonergan & Catherine Fleming [Newchapel] Mary of Patrick Maher & Mary Bearib? [Clerihan] John* of John Fleming & Honora Jinks [Newchapel] William of John Lafford & Mary Cunningham [Lafally] Catherine of Patrick Lyons & Mary Hennebry [Newchapel] John of John Swiney/Sweeney? & Catherine Donnell [Coleman] Mary of Patrick Cormack & Anastasia Ryan [Coleman] Honora of Michael Sullivan & Johanna Lonergan [Graigue] Patrick of Michael Ryan & Ellen Davin [Clerihan] John of Simon Molloy & Alice Hennebry [Newchapel] Mary of Patrick Hannigan & Judith Manning [Clerihan] John* of John Hogan & Mary Ryan [Coleman] To be cont'd

1856 Catherine of John Quinlan & Mary Ryan [Clerihan] Johanna of Jeremiah Guiry/Guerin?/Geary? & Judith Hanley [Coleman] Alice of Patrick Cormack & Mary Slattery [Coleman] Catherine of Patrick Richardson & Margaret Flannery [Clerihan] Patrick of William Lyons & Mary Fleming [Newchapel] John of John Tobin & Catherine Bates [Graigue] Margaret of Richard Deeves & Margaret Casey [Clerihan] Mary of Thomas Lahy & Alice Ryan James of Thomas Cantwell & Mary Dunne [Clerihan] Bridget of William Mason & Bridget Land [Clerihan] Anne of Terence Connors & Catherine Cantwell [Clerihan] Edmund of Patrick Quinlan & Ellen Bagott [Coleman] Thomas of David Rourke & Mary Cleary [Ballyveelish] Bridget* of Edmund Walsh & Mary Lonergan [Newchapel] Bridget of John Conway & Margaret Brien [Clerihan] James of Denis Callanan & Margaret Moore [Graigue] John* of John Kennedy & Catherine Breen/Brien [Coleman] Margaret of Denis Slattery & Catherine Slattery [Clerihan] Catherine Monica of Patrick Hogan & Anne Slattery [Clerihan] Caroline* of William Moore & Catherine Mulcahy [Newchapel] John of John Tobin & Judith Ahern [Clerihan] Judith of William Slattery & Mary Hogan [Clerihan] Mathew of William Slattery & Bridget Lonergan [Clerihan] Mary of Patrick Dwyer & Ellen Nolan [Rathdrum] Michael of James Walsh & Bridget Donnell [Clerihan] Michael of John Lonergan & Judith Fleming [Newchapel] Elizabeth of Michael Mockler & Margaret Guirey/Guerin?/Geary? [Coleman] Francis of James Prendergast & Margaret Walsh [Newchapel] John of Patrick Hennebry & Bridget Ryan [Newchapel] Honora of James Lonergan & Mary Mulcahy [Clerihan] Edmund of Edmund Slattery & Julia Beston [Newchapel] John of John Donnell & Bridget Kennedy [Clerihan] Michael of James Smith & Margaret Lonergan [Coleman] Martin of William Kennedy & Ellen Burke [Clerihan] Michael of Patrick Anylum/Anglim? & Margaret Comons/Cummins [Coleman] Judith of James Brien & Ellen Donnell [Coleman] Margaret [aged 9] of Thomas Daly & Margaret Butler

I've taken the liberty to extract and condense from various web and news postings this summery, but the web links, including a video are below. Has anyone tried this in Ireland? Please let us know, but I can imagine some parish priests and a certain Archbishop looking out over "their" graveyard seeing this take place! Here is a useful, but unorthodox method when searching for the location of unmarked graves. "Grave dowsing" or "Grave divining" or "Grave witching" has even been called "Dousing for the Dead". It is the art of locating a body with a pair of metal rods which react when they come near a body. Using simple handheld sensors, certain charmed individuals can detect subterranean elements. It is similar to oil witching and water-witching or dousing which was once widely used to search for water. It is a bit of classic American folk juju and you may have seen it depicted in an old movie or TV show. But dousing for the dead hopefully will turn up something other than water: a body! There is nothing scientific about it but it is mysterious and weird, but not paranormal. Those who have done it believe it, but most are not sure why it works. The only supernatural element is that it lacks a logical explanation. Using two thin metal "Dowsing rods" that you can make at home with heavy wires or welding rods; coat hangers have even worked and copper or aluminum seem more sensitive. Each rod or wire is about 2 or 3 feet long with a 6-inch handle that you bend at one end of the rod at a right angle making each rod look a little bit like the letter "L." Carefully hold your dowsing rods with the handle end of the rod in each hand, and stretch out your arms pointing the wires ahead of you like pistols. Hold the two rods out straight in front, parallel to each other, level and about one foot apart. Be sure not to grip too tightly to the rods and hold them firmly below the bend. Next, walk slowly over the area you think a grave may be located. When the rods come in "contact" with a buried body, they react, usually by crossing with each other if there is a burial below. Some people even had the rods do odd things like turn completely around and point over their shoulders; both rods turn one way or the other instead of crossing, and things like that. There's supposed to be a way to determine if your body is male or female by how the rods react, but none of us knew just what that was. And if a body is more than 100-150 years old, the reaction of the rods might not be as strong as with a more recent burial. http://wlgsgenealogy.blogspot.com/2008/04/dousing-for-dead.html http://www.woodwardnews.net/homepage/local_story_119101145.html http://www.texasobserver.org/article.php?aid=1998 http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EPc73s6MUsY best regards, Ed Madden Ridgefield, WA

Result of Google search:- Richard Pennefather (1806-1849; civil servant) Brief Biographical Details Born in Dublin, but educated at Balliol College, Oxford, and at Lincoln's Inn, Pennefather returned to Ireland after his legal training. In 1845 he was appointed as under-secretary to the Lord Lieutenant of Ireland, based at Dublin Castle. He was High Sheriff of co. Tipperary in 1848 and was involved in the bringing to trial of William Smith O'Brien and the other prisoners at Clonmel accused of high treason. Regards, Seamus. Seamus Moore, Dublin, Ireland. Researching: Moore, Anderson, Myles, Tobin, Norris, Goldrick, Tynan. somoore@iol.ie

> > Where abouts is Clerihan . Check out this site: http://www.rootsweb.ancestry.com/~irltip/facts.htm It has all the civil parishes of both North and South Tipperary illustrated by maps. Clerihan RC parish includes the following civil parishes, according to Brian Mitchell's book, A New Genealogical Atlas of Ireland: Ballyclerahan, Inishlounaght, Newchapel, and Rathronan. -- Pat Connors, Sacramento CA http://www.connorsgenealogy.com

1855 Ellen of Laurence Henebry & Honora Lyons [Newchapel] Bridget of Thomas Allen & Bridget Donnell Denis of John Tobin & Judith Ahern [Clerihan] Edmund of Patrick Hogan & Mary Ryan [Killerk] [Twin] Honora of Patrick Hogan & Mary Ryan [Killerk] [twin] Laurence of Laurence Henebry & Ellen Cleary [Ballyveelish] Edmund of Edmund Heffernan & Mary Baggott [Mocklerstown] Denis of Denis Keefe & Margaret Nugent [Lafally] Patrick of Denis Driscoll & Catherine Prendergast [Clerihan] Patrick of William Maher & Mary Nolan [Newchapel] Patrick of Edmund Slattery & Judith Beston [Newchapel] Ellen of James Brohan & Ellen Doherty Catherine of James Mockler & Mary Lanigan [Coleman] Johanna of William Blake & Honora Sause [Coleman] Ellen of James Prendergast & Margaret Walsh [Newchapel] William of John Coffee & Mary Slattery [Newchapel Robert of Thomas Keefe & Judith Slattery [Graigue] Denis of Denis Sullivan & Margaret Reiley [Graigue] Patrick of Michael Flannery & Ellen Dwyer [Clerihan] Ellen of Patrick Murphy & Mary Devane [Coleman] James of William Ryan & Bridget Henebry [Newchapel] Judith of Michael Lonergan & Mary Conway [Lafally] Catherine of Robert McCarthy & Ellen O'Connor [Clerihan] Anna of Michael Donnell & Margaret Slattery [Ballyveelish] Margaret of James Quirke & Judith Nolan [Clerihan] James of James Lonergan & Mary Maher [Rathdrum] Patrick of Patrick Wall & Ellen Jinks [Newchapel] Margaret of Thomas Magrath/McGrath & Margaret Casey [Clerihan] Margaret Of John Lafford & Mary Cunningham [Lafally] Michael of William Flynn & Ellen Hogan [Newchapel] John of John Lyons & Catherine Slattery [Newchapel] William of Patrick Donnell & Catherine Flannery [Rathnalour] Ellen of Charles Mulcahy & Catherine Flannery [Rathnalour] Michael of Cornelius Brien & Mary Fraher [Clerihan] William of James Donnell & Mary Fennell [Newchapel] John of Michael Costigan & Ellen Lonergan [Clerihan] Catherine of William Fennessy & Judith Barrett [Clerihan] Alice* of Edmund Callaghan & Alice Doody [Newchapel] Michael of John Keane & Catherine Cunningham [Lafally] Margaret of John Quinlan & Mary Ryan [Clerihan]

1854 Edmund of Edmund Donnell & Judith Tobin [Newchapel] Margaret* of William Guinan & Margaret Manning [Clerihan] John of Patrick Maher & Mary Lonasney? [Clerihan] Thomas of William Ryan & Bridget Hennebry [Newchapel] Thomas of Michael Maher & Mary Heffernan [Clerihan] Bridget of Michael Fitzgerald & Bridget Ryan [Coleman] Patrick of Patrick Lyons & Mary Hennebry [Newchapel] William of James Barry & Ellen Stapleton [Lafally] Honora of William Fennessy & Judith Barrett [Clerihan] Bridget of John Britton & Margaret Larkin [Clerihan] Catherine of Richard Breen/Brien & Margaret Kirwin [Clerihan] John of Richard Deeves & Margaret Casey [Clerihan] John of Patrick Hogan & Anne Mullally [Ballyincurragh] Catherine of John Lonergan & Judith Flemiing [Newchapel] John of Denis Callanan & Margaret Moore [Graigue] Catherine of John Richardson & Catherine White [Newchapel] John of Michael Sullivan & Johanna Lonergan [Graigue] James of Patrick Perkins & Margaret Gleeson [Clerihan] Thomas of Denis Conway & Ellen Whire?/White? [Clerihan] Anastasia of Patrick Cormack & Anastasia Ryan [Coleman] Anne of Thomas Cantwell & Mary Dunne [Clerihan] Mary of John Keating & Elizabeth Butler [Coleman] Michael of Patrick Fraher & Alice Ryan [Coleman] John of William Slattery & Bridget Flannery [Knockeevan] William of Edmund Tobin & Bridget Britt [Clerihan] Edmund Michael Of Thomas Donnell & Johanna Moore [Newchapel] Margaret of Thomas Hickey & Mary Hickey [Graigue] Margaret of Michael Mockler & Margaret Guirey/Geary?/Guiry?/Guiran? [Coleman] Bridget of Martin Keefe & Johanna Condon [Barona?] Catherine Of Denis Slattery & Catherine Slattery Thomas of James Caudy/Cawdy & Johanna Dunning? [Orchardstown]

1853 Bridget of John Duggan & Judith Brien [Coleman] Thomas of Thomas Duggan & Bridget Slattery [Bawnlane/Bawnlea?] Patrick of John Lyons & Catherine Slattery [Newchapel] Mary of John Tobin & Judith Ahern [Clerihan] Nicholas of William Slattery & Bridget Flannery [Clerihan] Daniel of Daniel Ryan & Margaret Tobin [Newchapel] Mary of David Meany & Mary Murphy [Coleman] Frederick of Charles Mulcahy & Catherine Lonergan [Graigue] Edmund of William Bates & Catherine Casey [Clerihan] William of John Tobin & Catherine Bates [Graigue] Patrick of William Slattery & Mary Hogan [Clerihan] Ellen of John Smith & Margaret Greene [Coleman] Margaret of James Moclear/Mockler? & Mary Lanigan [Coleman] Margaret of John Keating & Elizabeth Butler [Coleman] Bridget of Patrick Donnell & Catherine Flannery [Newchapel] Mary of John Cuddihy & Honora Keating [Newchapel] Thomas of Patrick Murphy & Mary Divane/Devane [Coleman] Honora of David Quinlan & Margaret Jinks [Newchapel] Mary of John Quirke & Ellen Ellis [Coleman] Mary of Thomas Wiley & Anne Cantwell [Clerihan] James* of James Lahy & Catherine Murphy [Coleman] Mary of James Gorman & Mary Clelehan? [Coleman] Honora of John Brien & Bridget Commons/Cummins [Coleman] Margaret of Thos Hanley & Margaret Ryan [Clerihan] James of James Prendergast & Margaret Walsh [Newchapel] Elizabeth of James Keane & Catherine Fahy [Clerihan] Honora of Michael Donnell & Mary Slattery [Ballyveelish] Ellen* of Michael Connors & Ellen Donnell [Clerihan] Michael of Michael Flannery [deceased] & Ellen Bates [Ballyhimakeen/Ballyhimikin] Thomas of Michael Costigan & Ellen Lonergan [Clerihan]

1852 David of David Rourke & Mary Cleary [Ballyveelish] John of Patkrick Cormack & Anastasia Ryan [Coleman] Denis of Denis Callanan & Margaret Moore [Graigue] John of Cornelius Hannon & Ellen Kenny [Clerihan] Thomas of John Lonergan & Judith Fleming [Newchapel] Mary* of Thomas Brien & Catherine Butler [Mullinahone] Ellen of Richard Deeves & Margaret Casey [Clerihan] John of James Prendergast & Margaret Walsh [Newchapel] Robert of James Carey & Anne Philips [Coleman] Jeremiah of Denis Sullivan & Margaret Reilly [Graigue] John of Nicholas Slattery & Mary Maher [Clerihan] John of William Morrissey & Ellen Lonergan [Coleman] John of Edmund Heffernan & Mary Baggot [Mocklerstown] Ellen of Edmund Lonergan & Margaret Lonergan [Mocklerstown] Catherine of Morgan Cashin & Elizabeth Bates [Newchapel] Margaret of Michael Flannery & Ellen Dwyer [Clerihan] Mary of William Fennessy & Judith Barrett [Clerihan] Alice of Edmund Tobin & Bridget Britt [Bawnbrack] Thomas* of William Moore & Catherine Mulcahy [Newchapel] Patrick of Thomas Condon & Bridget Carty/Carthy [Clerihan] James of James Power & Mary Neill [Newchapel] Michael of Michael Costigan & Ellen Lonergan [Clerihan] Mary of Michael Mara/Meara & Margaret Hogan [Coleman] James of John Richardson & Catherine White [Newchapel] Mary of Laurence Henerby/Hennebry? & Ellen Cleary [Ballyveelish] Michael of Laurence Carty/Carthy & Alice Lonergan [Clerihan] Mary of Richard Sheridan & Catherine Fitzgerald [Clerihan] John of Timothy Kennedy & Alice Dargan [Clerihan] Anne of William Ryan & Bridget Hanerby/Hennebry?[Newchapel] Mary of Richard Lyons & Mary Lyons [Newchapel] Ellen of Edmund Slattery & Judith Beston [Ballyimakeen/Ballyhimikin?] Catherine of John Lafford & Mary Cunningham [Lafally] Bartholomew of James Lonergan & Mary Maher [Rathdrum] Anne of William Mason & Bridget Lamb [Clerihan]

Having received some great assistance a while ago from members of the list regarding my O'Brien family from Ballywire I am hoping I may have similar good fortune concerning some of my wife's ancestors. William Charles WALL arrived in NSW in 1841 on the ship Forth together with his wife Mary. William was described very briefly on the passenger list as 25 years old, a farm labourer, native of Clonmell, Tipperary, and the son of John and Elinor WALL, postmaster. His wife Mary was aged 23 at the time, a farm servant and also a native of Clonmell, and her parents were listed as Thomas and Mary MAHER. The person certifying that they were of good character was Richard Pennefather, but there is no indication of his rank or profession, and he is completely unknown to me. Both William and Mary were Catholics. There is no mention in the document whether or not their four parents were alive in 1841. If the ages stated were correct William was born about 1816 and Mary about 1818. William and Mary had two sons before they sailed to Australia in 1841. These did not accompany their parents but were left in Ireland until 1848 when they arrived in NSW on the ship Sir Edward Parry. The passenger list does not indicate that they were travelling with anyone in particular as the names are found in a separate list of single males with ages ranging from 8 to 29 and no-one else was listed as coming from the same place. The two children were John Wall aged 10 and Thomas Wall aged 8, both Catholic and both from Clara, Tipperary. Whoever wrote the passenger list would have come top of the class in writing, and the place given in the document (as distinct from whatever the children may have said) was clearly written Clara Tipperary, not Clare nor Cahir, both appearing in the list for other people. Just to confuse things, when John Wall died in 1918 his death certificate stated that he came from County Clare, Ireland. The only other information I have comes from the death certificates of William and Mary. These tell me that William's parents were John WALL and Ellen ENGLISH, and Mary's parents were Thomas MAHER and Mary WALLACE. If the ages given in the certificates are accurate, William Wall was born in 1814 and Mary in 1820, and they were married in about 1836 when Mary was 16 years old. While there is some discrepancy in the ages compared with the ship's list, both records and the ages of the two children point to a marriage in the latter part of the 1830s. Unfortunately the death certificates are not specific about the location of the births of William or Mary nor the marriage, stating only that all three events occurred in Ireland. I think I have three questions about all of this: - Does any-one have any knowledge of this family group? - What records are available which may help me to find out more about them in Ireland and where should I look to find these records? - Can anyone pinpoint the location of Clara, Tipperary, or, if such a place does not exist, hazard a guess as to another Clara nearby or some other name in the locality which may have been heard as Clara by the person who wrote the passenger list? It may be that the young boys were living with relatives until they were thought to be old enough to follow their parents to NSW. Marshall Forman Adelaide South Australia